As a foster parent, my I add, that from my own direct experience there exist many many 'adults' out there who have children, who view those children as 'screw-up's. They hate their children. Everytime they can not do something, or go somewhere; they see their child as the factor that keeps them from being 'happy'.
There are a LOT of un-wanted children in our nation.
By the count of websites that list adoptible children, there are over 150,000 children currently in America, free for adoption; because their parents have abandoned them, or their parents are career felons, or their parents have failed many attempts at sobriety, or their parents molest them.
There is over 100,000 that are not so luck as to be in that statistic yet. These are the ones that are still 'not-free-for-adoption'. Maybe their child-molesting-father still has parental-rights and visitation. Or their coke addicted mother convinced a judge to allow her to continue hooking for another 6 months while she trys to get straight.
I have had foster children in my home, who were living with both of these above situations. They were told that they are screw-ups, that they are hated, un-wanted.
And yet few people are willing to adopt here in America. My own brother would rather pay $65,000 to purchase a little girl overseas, so he does not have to think about the injustices of our society.
There are children who are told daily that they are 'screw-ups'.
We have thousands of un-wanted children born every year.
To my way of thinking, you can't tell someone not to abort, unless you have already adopted a handful of those un-wanted children.
Geeze Galen ...I`m not SAYING not to abort...abort or not life or not it is all about being told that God desires/requires this of you.
It is about having no other option if you want to remain in the center of God`s will...rather than succumbing to the scheme of the adversary.
It is about being talked into not doing what I felt was right because *feelings* were only 5 senses emotions that were preventing me from honoring my commitment to God.
It`s about using God`s name supposition and scripture manipulation to ensure obediance
"TWI gave these women an opportunity to stay in the Way Corps if they wanted, after screwing up. Sounds pretty charitable to me.
March 7, 1976. I will remember that day as long as I live. That's the day I got dismissed from the 6th Corps, for screwing up.
Dismissed. Good bye. So long. Don't let the door hit your butt too hard on the way out.
And so, from my viewpoint, those women were given a choice, and they were treated decently. Opinions vary. "
Ah, and perhaps here we have the true crux of the matter for Oldies. Not if it is Godly, not if there was abuse, etc. but damn it all it just isn't fair that they kicked HIM out and let YOU stay!!!!!!
Perhaps, Oldies, you are still so bitter about this, that you just cannot see how truly fortunate you were.
I think Wordwolf and Abigail hit on the real resons for this tread by oldies. What made this program the end all for peoples lives? Nothing. It was another Idol. A big one that is it was more important than life itself. Just more sh-t from the cespool of vps mind and loyboy. Why not come out and talk pubicly abount birth contol and no sex. Because it would limit the amount of victums they had. And it looks like that idol was very important to oldies. He didn't get to have that in his life.
Hey oldies how did you screw up?
I know of plenty of people that were dismissed for minor stupid infractions. And God forgive me that I brought some of those to lite and helped ruin peoples lifes.
It was dispicable what I did. I taught at the time I was doing the right thing. And was praised by leadership for doing it. In hindsite it might of been the best thing for the different people involved. I pray they have forgiven me and the error of my ways. But this could be a whole differet tread.
Hey oldies did your screw up have anything to do with sex?
Oldies I know one thing for sure you never looked at a dead fetus and have your heart broken with the event of a misscarrage?
And let me tell some of you women it is not only you that get hearts broken at these issues. Some us men have had our hearts broken. We morn and grive also. You dont have the corner on bad advice frome stupid devilish people.
Oldies let me make it real plain what I think of vp. He was a whoremoner. he was a drunk. he was a idol worshiper. he was no man of God and never stood for God he used God for a evil system to get the plesures of life the lust of the flesh. And i pray one day the scales are lifed from your eyes to see. Your system is a broken cistern. And your idol vp will be judged before God just like me. What I read and understand his judgement will be a little diferent from mine. His doctrine still has the grips of hell in your mind.
(((Danny))) I hear you...I understand that so very many of you guys had it just as heartbreakingly difficult.
I never meant to imply that woe is me ...we ALL were treated abominably at one time or another.... I am so angry at what we endured at the hands of twi .... the evils that were perpetrated on us...our brothers and sisters...I KNOW that my sufferings pale in comparison to many....what blows my mind is that all of the suffering ..all of the sacrafice was all done in God`s name...we accepted the abuse ...in some cases we perpetrated the abuse... all the while convinced it was for GOD`S benefit....how sick is that?
quote:"TWI gave these women an opportunity to stay in the Way Corps if they wanted, after screwing up. Sounds pretty charitable to me.
March 7, 1976. I will remember that day as long as I live. That's the day I got dismissed from the 6th Corps, for screwing up.
Dismissed. Good bye. So long. Don't let the door hit your butt too hard on the way out.
And so, from my viewpoint, those women were given a choice, and they were treated decently. Opinions vary. "
Ah, and perhaps here we have the true crux of the matter for Oldies. Not if it is Godly, not if there was abuse, etc. but damn it all it just isn't fair that they kicked HIM out and let YOU stay!!!!!!
Perhaps, Oldies, you are still so bitter about this, that you just cannot see how truly fortunate you were.
It does seem to sound like Greasespot Wound Addiction, doesn't it? Ha.
Nah, I'm not bitter about it at all. It took me about a year to get over the dismissal, but by PFAL '77, I was ok with it. I finally realized that the dismissal was my fault, for not living up to expected standards. It was tough to realize that, because of the added perception that others were getting a better deal than me, that those who also sinned were recipients of possible greater mercy from the powers that be. But at any rate, the facts are still the facts, present feelings notwithstanding ... those women were given a choice, something that sounds decent to me.
yeah...the *chance* to be of further *service* to the body....probably why some were allowed to stay...women had something to offer that you didn`t....lucky us.
I think it's wrong for you and Danny to think evil of other folks Corps commitments. You can talk that way about yourselves, but how dare you judge your brothers and sisters in what their heart was before God.
quote:Your system is a broken cistern. And your idol vp will be judged before God just like me. What I read and understand his judgement will be a little diferent from mine. His doctrine still has the grips of hell in your mind.
Danny, those words sound pretty extreme. In 1985, you were one of the most loving and kind persons I knew. What happened to you, bro? What's gotten into you?
This is not the first time you falsely accuse me of engaging in idolatry. Why do you keep accusing me of that? And why do you accuse your brothers and sisters of idolatry when saying the corps was their idol? I suppose you're an expert on idolatry now? Just because folks have a different opinion than yourself and may not think like you, doesn't mean they are idolators.
WHOS thinking evil of those who made the corpes commitment????? Where do you see THAT in any of our posts???
*I* made that corpes commitment...my husband did...as did most of our friends...I thought we were one hell of a great group of people who loved God enough to seek to serve him for the rest of our lives ...to the utmost of our abilities.
Too bad our talents drive and efforts were hijacked by self serving men.
quote:what blows my mind is that all of the suffering ..all of the sacrafice was all done in God`s name...we accepted the abuse ...in some cases we perpetrated the abuse... all the while convinced it was for GOD`S benefit....how sick is that?
I think by saying these things, you are insulting and demeaning a person's corps commitment. What do you know about others commitments to God? That was their choice and their life. I think a person has to decide for themselves, whether their commitment was for God's benefit, without you getting in their face that their commitment wasn't, or their commitment was sick. ...
You are lieing yet again oldies...what a suprise.....yet another attempt to misrepresent a poster....
As far as my opinion of the corpes...Our hearts were pure...our desire sincere...our trust complete...which is WHY we were such easy marks for the consumption of those who would spitefully use us.
I never EVER belittled corpes .. or will I...We were perhaps the ones who endured the greatest betrayal and had the most stolen from us.
quote:You are lieing yet again oldies...what a suprise.....yet another attempt to misrepresent a poster....
quote:what blows my mind is that all of the suffering ..all of the sacrafice was all done in God`s name...we accepted the abuse ...in some cases we perpetrated the abuse... all the while convinced it was for GOD`S benefit....how sick is that?
You seem to be saying here that folks' corps commitments were sick because they thought they were doing God's work and something for God's benefit, while all the while being recipients and perpetrators of abuse. My response to that is, you can say that about yourself, but not others. Others will decide for themselves what their corps commitments meant for and to God, and others .... but for you to paint that broad brushstroke on everyone is insulting. Not everyone thinks like you, thinks that the sum total of their corps commitment was giving and receiving abuse. Geeze, what a morbid view of things! And again, you falsely accuse me of lying, something you like to do, apparently. All I can say is, I'm very glad and thankful I don't think like you do. ...
Nope ..what I AM saying is that we did things that were abhorrant to us to God ...because leadership told us that God demanded this of us.
I never said that we were all perpetrators of abuse...what I SAID was that we suffered unneccessary abuse...and at times we (some of us) perpetrated abuse...believing (due to wrong teaching by leaders we trusted) that it was God`s will.
Murdering unborn babies and hurting one another in GOD`S name and under the guise of spirtitual commitment...now THAT is sick...
Stop twisting the meaning of my post ...acting like you are getting your panties in a wad over something I never said...and trying to stir up sentiment against a poster because you cannot successfully refute a point.
quote:Murdering unborn babies and hurting one another in GOD`S name and under the guise of spirtitual commitment...now THAT is sick...
Also Glad that twi never taught that abortion is murder. .... something else that you insult and condemn your fellow brothers and sisters about .... murdering and aiding and abetting murder. Now THAT'S a sickly thought. Can't you see what you're doing? Your false accusations are very disturbing.
Oldies...come on ...the only reason that you call me a liar is because my experience and insight into twi`s evil...doesn`t jive with the rosey picture that you want to believe.
Every single thing that I have ever posted has been truth....All has been backed up by other posters who were treate dsimilarly...why is it so important for you to hold to the illusion that was painted for you to the point that you close your mind to the facts? Whay is you illusion so important that you must treat your fellow posters, brothers and sisters in christ badly ...call them liars when they have simply exposed the evil practiced in twi?
quote:What is SICK is that there was no *choice* if you wanted to remain in good spiritual standing...
"There You Go Again"
- Ronald Reagan
Saying there was no choice, is a lie. Or a misrepresentation. Or an exaggeration. Or Victim Mentality Propaganda. Whatever you call it, I don't buy it.
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I'm so sorry what happened to you. Hugs
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Galen
Shellon:
"Oldies said ....after screwing up"
"Huh? Since when is a child a screw up?"
As a foster parent, my I add, that from my own direct experience there exist many many 'adults' out there who have children, who view those children as 'screw-up's. They hate their children. Everytime they can not do something, or go somewhere; they see their child as the factor that keeps them from being 'happy'.
There are a LOT of un-wanted children in our nation.
By the count of websites that list adoptible children, there are over 150,000 children currently in America, free for adoption; because their parents have abandoned them, or their parents are career felons, or their parents have failed many attempts at sobriety, or their parents molest them.
There is over 100,000 that are not so luck as to be in that statistic yet. These are the ones that are still 'not-free-for-adoption'. Maybe their child-molesting-father still has parental-rights and visitation. Or their coke addicted mother convinced a judge to allow her to continue hooking for another 6 months while she trys to get straight.
I have had foster children in my home, who were living with both of these above situations. They were told that they are screw-ups, that they are hated, un-wanted.
And yet few people are willing to adopt here in America. My own brother would rather pay $65,000 to purchase a little girl overseas, so he does not have to think about the injustices of our society.
There are children who are told daily that they are 'screw-ups'.
We have thousands of un-wanted children born every year.
To my way of thinking, you can't tell someone not to abort, unless you have already adopted a handful of those un-wanted children.
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rascal
Geeze Galen ...I`m not SAYING not to abort...abort or not life or not it is all about being told that God desires/requires this of you.
It is about having no other option if you want to remain in the center of God`s will...rather than succumbing to the scheme of the adversary.
It is about being talked into not doing what I felt was right because *feelings* were only 5 senses emotions that were preventing me from honoring my commitment to God.
It`s about using God`s name supposition and scripture manipulation to ensure obediance
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Galen
By the way, I checks my facts, I used bad numbers, Ooops. I apologize.
There seem to be only 136,000 un-wanted children currently free for adoption in America.
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WordWolf
Oh, I dunno, Oldiesman....
Most Christian organizations lean a bit towards the "ounce of prevention" point
of view....
So, if you were going into the corpse or were in the corpse
(or the relative equivalent thereof)
they'd be pretty clear on "NO FOOLING AROUND!", not "NO PREGNANCIES!".
I mean, if Christians are taught and expected to adhere to Biblical standards-
and their teachers and instructors set the example-
there will BE no fooling around (sex). Or, at least, it will be majorly
discouraged, which will cut the numbers down. With no fooling around, there's no
risk of pregnancy. This saves everyone all the stress, money issues and problems
connected with even CONSIDERING abortions.
Instead, an efficient little system operated very quietly, taking women to get
abortions, counselling them to get them, and moving on.
If rationalizations and situational ethics hadn't become the order of the day,
(and leadership hadn't set the example in abusing their offices for sex)
then unwanted pregnancies would have been far rarer.
Now, that leaves us with married couples, who, we presume, ARE fooling around.
In the US, in the 20th century, avoiding pregnancy is NOT a big mystery.
If a couple doesn't want to have kids, then can easily (except for exceptions)
avoid having them. Let's say a married couple did want a kid, and the wife got
pregnant.
Why counsel her to abort the baby (or future baby) rather than carry to term?
The reasons seem to center around the convenience of the organization rather than
anything else. Further, if someone left the corpse, there was SUCH a stigma
painted on them BY corpse. So, abort this baby, or be kicked out of the corpse
and be stigmatized. That's not a sound choice, but it was the ONLY choice
offered too many people in the corpse.
Did they have a choice? By definition, yes.
It was a trick question with 2 bad options, but they could have picked either.
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Abigail
"TWI gave these women an opportunity to stay in the Way Corps if they wanted, after screwing up. Sounds pretty charitable to me.
March 7, 1976. I will remember that day as long as I live. That's the day I got dismissed from the 6th Corps, for screwing up.
Dismissed. Good bye. So long. Don't let the door hit your butt too hard on the way out.
And so, from my viewpoint, those women were given a choice, and they were treated decently. Opinions vary. "
Ah, and perhaps here we have the true crux of the matter for Oldies. Not if it is Godly, not if there was abuse, etc. but damn it all it just isn't fair that they kicked HIM out and let YOU stay!!!!!!
Perhaps, Oldies, you are still so bitter about this, that you just cannot see how truly fortunate you were.
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Tom Strange
....he's bitter about something...
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Danny
I think Wordwolf and Abigail hit on the real resons for this tread by oldies. What made this program the end all for peoples lives? Nothing. It was another Idol. A big one that is it was more important than life itself. Just more sh-t from the cespool of vps mind and loyboy. Why not come out and talk pubicly abount birth contol and no sex. Because it would limit the amount of victums they had. And it looks like that idol was very important to oldies. He didn't get to have that in his life.
Hey oldies how did you screw up?
I know of plenty of people that were dismissed for minor stupid infractions. And God forgive me that I brought some of those to lite and helped ruin peoples lifes.
It was dispicable what I did. I taught at the time I was doing the right thing. And was praised by leadership for doing it. In hindsite it might of been the best thing for the different people involved. I pray they have forgiven me and the error of my ways. But this could be a whole differet tread.
Hey oldies did your screw up have anything to do with sex?
Oldies I know one thing for sure you never looked at a dead fetus and have your heart broken with the event of a misscarrage?
And let me tell some of you women it is not only you that get hearts broken at these issues. Some us men have had our hearts broken. We morn and grive also. You dont have the corner on bad advice frome stupid devilish people.
Oldies let me make it real plain what I think of vp. He was a whoremoner. he was a drunk. he was a idol worshiper. he was no man of God and never stood for God he used God for a evil system to get the plesures of life the lust of the flesh. And i pray one day the scales are lifed from your eyes to see. Your system is a broken cistern. And your idol vp will be judged before God just like me. What I read and understand his judgement will be a little diferent from mine. His doctrine still has the grips of hell in your mind.
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rascal
(((Danny))) I hear you...I understand that so very many of you guys had it just as heartbreakingly difficult.
I never meant to imply that woe is me ...we ALL were treated abominably at one time or another.... I am so angry at what we endured at the hands of twi .... the evils that were perpetrated on us...our brothers and sisters...I KNOW that my sufferings pale in comparison to many....what blows my mind is that all of the suffering ..all of the sacrafice was all done in God`s name...we accepted the abuse ...in some cases we perpetrated the abuse... all the while convinced it was for GOD`S benefit....how sick is that?
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oldiesman
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oldiesman
Abigail
It does seem to sound like Greasespot Wound Addiction, doesn't it? Ha.Nah, I'm not bitter about it at all. It took me about a year to get over the dismissal, but by PFAL '77, I was ok with it. I finally realized that the dismissal was my fault, for not living up to expected standards. It was tough to realize that, because of the added perception that others were getting a better deal than me, that those who also sinned were recipients of possible greater mercy from the powers that be. But at any rate, the facts are still the facts, present feelings notwithstanding ... those women were given a choice, something that sounds decent to me.
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rascal
yeah...the *chance* to be of further *service* to the body....probably why some were allowed to stay...women had something to offer that you didn`t....lucky us.
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oldiesman
I think it's wrong for you and Danny to think evil of other folks Corps commitments. You can talk that way about yourselves, but how dare you judge your brothers and sisters in what their heart was before God.
Shame shame shame on you ...
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oldiesman
Danny
Danny, those words sound pretty extreme. In 1985, you were one of the most loving and kind persons I knew. What happened to you, bro? What's gotten into you?This is not the first time you falsely accuse me of engaging in idolatry. Why do you keep accusing me of that? And why do you accuse your brothers and sisters of idolatry when saying the corps was their idol? I suppose you're an expert on idolatry now? Just because folks have a different opinion than yourself and may not think like you, doesn't mean they are idolators.
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rascal
WHOS thinking evil of those who made the corpes commitment????? Where do you see THAT in any of our posts???
*I* made that corpes commitment...my husband did...as did most of our friends...I thought we were one hell of a great group of people who loved God enough to seek to serve him for the rest of our lives ...to the utmost of our abilities.
Too bad our talents drive and efforts were hijacked by self serving men.
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rascal
Maybe Danny n the rest of us see soemthing in you through your posts that you don`t oldies.
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oldiesman
I think by saying these things, you are insulting and demeaning a person's corps commitment. What do you know about others commitments to God? That was their choice and their life. I think a person has to decide for themselves, whether their commitment was for God's benefit, without you getting in their face that their commitment wasn't, or their commitment was sick. ...
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rascal
You are lieing yet again oldies...what a suprise.....yet another attempt to misrepresent a poster....
As far as my opinion of the corpes...Our hearts were pure...our desire sincere...our trust complete...which is WHY we were such easy marks for the consumption of those who would spitefully use us.
I never EVER belittled corpes .. or will I...We were perhaps the ones who endured the greatest betrayal and had the most stolen from us.
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oldiesman
You seem to be saying here that folks' corps commitments were sick because they thought they were doing God's work and something for God's benefit, while all the while being recipients and perpetrators of abuse. My response to that is, you can say that about yourself, but not others. Others will decide for themselves what their corps commitments meant for and to God, and others .... but for you to paint that broad brushstroke on everyone is insulting. Not everyone thinks like you, thinks that the sum total of their corps commitment was giving and receiving abuse. Geeze, what a morbid view of things! And again, you falsely accuse me of lying, something you like to do, apparently. All I can say is, I'm very glad and thankful I don't think like you do. ...
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rascal
Nope ..what I AM saying is that we did things that were abhorrant to us to God ...because leadership told us that God demanded this of us.
I never said that we were all perpetrators of abuse...what I SAID was that we suffered unneccessary abuse...and at times we (some of us) perpetrated abuse...believing (due to wrong teaching by leaders we trusted) that it was God`s will.
Murdering unborn babies and hurting one another in GOD`S name and under the guise of spirtitual commitment...now THAT is sick...
Stop twisting the meaning of my post ...acting like you are getting your panties in a wad over something I never said...and trying to stir up sentiment against a poster because you cannot successfully refute a point.
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oldiesman
Also Glad that twi never taught that abortion is murder. .... something else that you insult and condemn your fellow brothers and sisters about .... murdering and aiding and abetting murder. Now THAT'S a sickly thought. Can't you see what you're doing? Your false accusations are very disturbing.
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rascal
Oldies...come on ...the only reason that you call me a liar is because my experience and insight into twi`s evil...doesn`t jive with the rosey picture that you want to believe.
Every single thing that I have ever posted has been truth....All has been backed up by other posters who were treate dsimilarly...why is it so important for you to hold to the illusion that was painted for you to the point that you close your mind to the facts? Whay is you illusion so important that you must treat your fellow posters, brothers and sisters in christ badly ...call them liars when they have simply exposed the evil practiced in twi?
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rascal
You are building straw men oldies....you are attatching a meaning to my posts that are not there....
You are claiming foul and insult where none is given....
My condemnation is for those who claimed that God required this of us.
I have never said that I was against pro choice...I believe that it is very important to be allowed that choice....
What is SICK is that there was no *choice* if you wanted to remain in good spiritual standing...
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oldiesman
- Ronald Reagan
Saying there was no choice, is a lie. Or a misrepresentation. Or an exaggeration. Or Victim Mentality Propaganda. Whatever you call it, I don't buy it.
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