Ginger Tea called me last night to wish me well and offer words of encouragement. After reading some of the posts, it was a needed pick me up. Thanks Ginger
Despite the sentiments of a few people, I have every confidence that TWI will lose.There are facts that when revealed will be very enlightening.
Did you know that there was a publication called I believe"The Way Magazine" before TWI had theirs?
Or about a church named I believe The Way Christian Ministries, and how they were sued by TWI for trademark infringement?
When I dig the documents out of storage, they will posted for all to see.
quote:frankly the sum of 15,000 dollars for a domain name
It was a joke to make fun of TWI's threats of hand it over or else. And they didn't even make an offer. Too bad, because I sold it to a friend for $1.
I was in the process of transferring it to them when the lawsuit hit and the domain registrar locked my access to transfer the domain name to the new owner.
Okay - I just had a TWI flashback from the Advanced Class I went to in 1995 or '96. When Howard Allen made that awful speech (which I've related about a dozen times), I remember something else he said- anyone else here who remembers, please help me out. I can't quote it word-for-word, but the gist was that "we" meaning TWI, were tracking down everyone who was using the name "the way" and making them give it up - that it was trademark infringment. In the context, I think he was talking about the "spin-off" ministries - but the way I heard it, he sounded like when they were through with the ex-way people, they were going to go after everyone else who was using it for profit.
Does anyone else remember this? I know I'm not dreaming. Radar? Cat? Anyone who was at HQ's back then recall that happening?
Socks - good explanation as usual. Just wondering... "socks.com" or "socks, inc." are broad, unspecific business names name. If you had "socks" trademarked, could you go after someone who had a business and/or website called "socks r us" for using your name as part of their company name?
I think of Flowers.com. The site is actually called 1-800-Flowers.com. If you type "flowers" in google, that's the first hit. But then there is also justflowers.com and virtualflowers.com , aboutflowers.com, proflowers.com, wildflowers.com - and so on and on and on. Can "flowers.com" make them stop using the word "flowers" on their site or keep them from registering their copyrights?
My confusion, I guess, is that TWI went after Pat for using "The Way of Christ International" because it had the term "The Way" in it - not the use of the domain name itself. Is that right?
Personally, I think if it had been anyone else - someone who was not an ex-way follower, or someone who didn't have any type of religious affiliation (i.e. "The Way To Go Bobsleds, International") they might not have blown their lid about it.
Darn, just type "the way" (without the quotes) into google and see what comes up! Then type it with the quotes - TWI's website doesn't even show up until Page 4! (There's actually a site called "The Way Home", and another called "By The Way..." all terms TWI has used at one time or another).
Why aren't they going after these site owners? Sorta makes me go "hmmmmmm?".
hope: The original name of my "religious" website The Path Of Christ Ministry was The Way Of Christ Ministry(not international.
I had done a diligent check with the NH corporations dept, and after learning that TWI had let their name The Way lapse (for years)and after checking with the trademark office, I went ahead with the name registration.
I registered the name The Way Of Christ Ministry, because quite frankly in my opinion it did not conflict with TWI's trademark. And if you check with the trademark office, there are several trademarks in the religious category (class 41)that would be infringers by TWI's erroneous interpretation of trademark law.
After a few months of the website being up, I received the letter located at the link below from TWI's attorneys. My intellectual property attorney responded to them, and as a precaution, I changed the website name shortly thereafter to its present name.
quote: Therefore, on behalf of our client, we demand that you immediately and permanently cease all use of the name "The Way of Christ Ministry" and any other name using the words "The Way" for any goods and services related to religion, including changing the name of your corporation.
I then filed a trademark application for The Way Of Christ Ministry because I believed it would be cheaper to have the issue decided by the trademark office instead of litigating it($3-400 versus $10,000+)
The trademark office gave preliminary approval for my trademark for religious goods and services in the same class as TWI's trademark.
At the last moment of the the process, TWI filed for an extention to file an opposition, and filed another extention and then another.
Then TWI filed their opposition, and after spending about $2000, I decided that the trademark was not that important.
Why would a religeous organization who supposedly cares about people want to fight about another Christian's website? Do they want customers or do they truly wantto help people? IMO it sounds like a business that is afraid of losing clients.
You have nailed the crux of the matter. TWI is losing members and they are doing their lawsuit purely to silence my efforts. They have no valid trademark issue at all.
Kinda interesting that after all this time, they only got the itch to sue me after the Peeler evidentiary hearing was published.
If you have some time to kill, check out the website of the United States Patent and Trademark Office. You can search their data base to see if something has been trademarked.
Apparently, twi has trademarked:
THE WAY
THE WAY INTERNATIONAL
THE WAY CORPS
DISCIPLES OF THE WAY OUTREACH PROGRAM
THE WAY AMBASSADOR WOW
THE WAY OF ABUNDANCE AND POWER
THE WAY MAGAZINE
and these tongue-twisters that apparently refer to their logos:
THE PREVAILING WORD THE WAY INTERNATIONAL NEW KNOXVILLE OHIO EPHESIANS
FOR PEOPLE WHO LOVE GOD AND HIS WORD THE WAY MAGAZINE
THE WAY CORPS IT IS WRITTEN APOSTLES PROPHETS EVANGELISTS PASTORS TEACHERS
Interestingly, it looks like they let their trademark for POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING expire in March 1984, but they're still holding on to PFAL.
I'm certainly no expert on trademark law, but I would think if they abandoned their trademark on "power for abundant living" that somebody else would be free to claim it.
Is there a URL for that web site that you can post regarding doing trademark searches? I would like to examine TWI's claim.
Relating to what Hope wrote. In going after every Christian organization or church that uses the name "The Way" as part of their name. TWI may be chasing after imaginary ghosts.
I'm certainly no expert on trademark law, but I would think if they abandoned their trademark on "power for abundant living" that somebody else would be free to claim it.
>>
Well thats what I would think but as we
know the law doesn't always follow intuitive reasoning.
Even a casual analysis of TWI website
suggests that its merely a placeholder to provide token evidence of their exsistence on the web. Its vague and employs numerous cliches that give no real indication about the day to day life of TWI devotee.
has a web presence that at least tries to appear to be informative.
The point is that ,in my opinion, TWI has no interest in developing a significant on-line presence. Their intent , from my point of view is to cybersquat but they have a slightly better alibi since they are seeking
ICOC? That is a new one to me. Why are they seen as competitors? Is it another offshoot?
>>
We might want to take this to another thread
to keep this one on track but here is a synopsis.
ICOC is not new by any means nor are
they Way offshoots but there are plenty of
former followers with tales that rival that
of former Way followers. My local Way leadership
at least around 82 knew about them and called
BCOC a cult ! The pot calling the kettle black.
The BL was just POed that another group was
fishing in TWI water.
Perhaps you know them under another name (perhaps not) The Boston Church of Christ.
They also had an active presence in Atlanta
and were called "The Atlanta Church of Christ". They used to change the name to reflect the city.
They have been kicked off lots of campuses
nationwide for their agressive pursuit of students. Their typical approach was to pay
for some of their younger people to enroll in
college (they made it in on their own merits)
with the goal of recruiting other students.
Most of the BCOC students would spend so much
time recruiting for the church that their studies would suffer but and frequently be put on academic probation and in some cases expelled. But they didn't care as long as they got sufficient "headcount". Another problem was
that they were highly confrontational with
recurits who appeared to be wavering in their
faith and there were many incidents involving
security where a frighened student would complain about verbal abuse and threats of
I have no idea if they do or not but one slight correction - it is "The Way in Great Britain" limited - they were forced to change "of" to "in" at the time they registered as a company.
I don’t know why this sticks in my craw. A bit of OCD, perhaps. I’m all for nailing TWI where they’re wrong, but I’m also for justice, doing the right thing, and being sensible, even regarding despicable people and organizations, like TWI.
Again I’ll point out that, if this should proceed to trial, it will be before impartial people, who will not be prejudiced by the attitudes about TWI that are prevalent here.
You’ll have a hard time convincing an impartial person that TWI is harassing you, in order to silence you. Neither the facts, nor the common-sense judgments of impartial people, support those conclusions.
First of all, consider whether silencing you could be TWI’s motive. There is not one thing that you do in publishing information about TWI that depends in any way on using “The Way” in a name or on the “thewayinternational.com” domain. You are not currently using either. You are simply holding on to the domain, even though you have no legitimate use for it. TWI does have a legitimate use for it. They want it, and that’s the whole reason they are suing you to get it. Their having it will not stop you from doing anything you are already doing or prevent you from doing anything you want to do. In other words, TWI’s motive in wanting the domain name has nothing to do with silencing you.
Now consider this timeline, from the perspective of a reasonable, impartial person, with no prejudice against TWI.
“The Way” has been a registered trademark of TWI for many years. “The Way International” has been their trademark for over twenty years, although it has not been registered for most of that time.
TWI registered “theway.org” in 1998. They registered “theway.com” in February of 1999. They didn’t have a website at that time, but likely planned to have one in the future.
Some time after that, you started up “The Way of Christ Ministry” website. You registered the domain you originally used for that site, “thewayofchrist.com”, in June of 1999. There is no obvious reason that TWI would have been aware of your website at that time.
You registered “thewayinternational.com” in September of 1999. There is no obvious reason that TWI would have been aware of that.
You posted on Waydale, and your site was linked from Waydale, so TWI was likely to eventually become aware of your site. They obviously did, because they sent you a letter about your use of the name “The Way of Christ Ministry” in June of 2000. You changed the name of your site to “The Path of Christ Ministry.” You also registered a new domain name, “waychrist.com” in August of 2000, and began using that domain for your “The Path of Christ Ministry” website. That satisfied TWI’s demands at the time. You held on to both “thewayofchrist.com” and “thewayinternational.com” domains, but TWI may not have known that.
In September of 2000, you filed to register “The Way of Christ Ministry” as your trademark. It was published for opposition in September of 2001. TWI opposed, and it was abandoned in August of 2002. As of that time, there still was no obvious reason that TWI would have been aware of your registration of “thewayinternational.com” domain.
In June of 2003, TWI registered the domains “thewayinternational.org”, “thewayinternational.net”, and “thewayinternational.info”. It would have been reasonable for them to attempt to register “thewayinternational.com” at that time, also, but it was already registered to you. That may have been the first they knew about that. It would take some time for that information to get back to a TWI decision-maker, and for a decision to be made to refer the matter to their attorney. It would take more time for the attorney to look into the matter and recommend a course of action. According to you, they sent you a letter in December of 2003. They gave you about three months, and then filed suit. Barring evidence to the contrary, their actions appear to be reasonable, timely, and unrelated to your “ex-cultworld” site or anything you’ve published there.
So, Pat, neither possible motive nor the sequence of events would lead a reasonable, impartial person to the conclusion that TWI is harassing you, in order to silence you.
If a reasonable, impartial person were to see a pattern of harassment, I think it would be one of you harassing TWI. You have no cause for legal action against them. If you ever had such cause, the time limit for acting on it has long since expired. Yet your words in your opening post to this thread, and elsewhere, indicate that you have wanted to sue them, and are glad that they are suing you. A reasonable person might conclude that you have been trying to provoke them, in order to attempt to use a lawsuit filed by them as a vehicle for acquiring and publishing harmful or embarrassing information about them.
This is a fight of your own making. You are holding on to something for which you have no legitimate use, but TWI does. It will cost you nothing to relinquish your claim. Rather, it will save you time, trouble, expense, distraction from other efforts, etc. On the other hand, if you make TWI a reasonable offer, you might even make a little money. If you were to add up your expenses related to the domain, throw in a small amount for your trouble, and take that to an attorney who could deal with TWI on your behalf, I’ll bet you could reach a just settlement in a matter of days. That’s reasonable. Making a big issue over something that could be settled with a couple of telephone calls between lawyers is not. Thinking you’re going to use this to acquire damaging information about TWI, through discovery, or thinking you’re going to waltz into a courtroom and put TWI and their lawyers to shame is beyond unreasonable.
Get a lawyer. Have the lawyer arrange a reasonable settlement. Go on with life.
Also realize that the ICANN (the final determiner of the legal ownership of a domain name should conflicts occur) often do not determine who owns a domain name in dispute simply on who nails it first. But rather on how the similarity and relationship of the domain name fits either of the contestants. Ie., If I register 'www.ibm.com' before International Business Machines does; if IBM contests it, too bad, so sad ... for me. Because then ICANN can then determine that I have registered that name 'in bad faith'. I believe Madonna won a case based on this legal reasoning. So no, the timing of registration isn't the final determiner.
And it does look here, as Long Gone pointed out, that this case could most likely be ruled against you, Pat, as you have no direct use for the term 'thewayinternational', but TWI does. And you would be benefitting from this domain name, not in money, but in fame and noteriety, as it undoubtedly is your express purpose to use that domain name as one of your tools to 'expose TWI'. (Yeah! Right! Like they haven't been exposed already? --> Hell, they are pert near dead in the water, largely because of all of our collective efforts.)
This is Yet Again an example of why one must pick one's battles carefully, and also be well equiped and informed for the battle you do take on. I think Jesus addressed that issue when he was talking about the army general counting the cost of the upcoming battle before he either commits to it, or sends an emissary to discuss terms of peace, ... lest he get his butt *smoked*.
Make sure you don't get your butt smoked, Pat. ... And may I also add my voice in with the others as regards: Get an attorney! Sorry chief, but unless the schooling that you have gotten has focused on copyright and internet law, AND you have done *exceptionally* well in it, I don't think that your level of schooling will withstand TWI's already-seasoned attorneys.
(Where in the hell is LarryP when you need him? :D--> )
Anywho, that's my 2 1/2 cents worth, adjusted for inflation.
I have to agree with most of Long Gone's post. I don't think you can ever predict what a jury will do. But, I do think that this matter should be easy to settle out of court. As a future lawyer, you should know that law suits that are based "on principal" are costly and do not really solve anything. I don't know if that is what you are doing, but it sure sounds like it.
I think that you will be better of if you 1. stop posting information that TWI can read and use against you. 2. get a lawyer 3. settle this matter the courts are too busy and they will encourage you to settle out of court. Some Civil courts docket civil matters years in advance. This could take forever and what will you gain? I just don't think it is worth it IMO.
Also, you stated that you sold it to your friend for $1, is that correct? Then you no longer own it, right? So why are you being sued shouldn't they go after the owner?
BTW, that letter TWI's lawyers wrote made me laugh. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to write such things. I bet you TWI has to pay them a lot of money for such foolishness.
Anywho, I forgot to wish you luck Pat and please consider getting a lawyer. You are just learning theory and practicing law is totally different.
I found it! Number 101 in the list of 1553 registered marks that say "the way"
Word Mark THE WAY
Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Computer services, namely, providing data back-up and recovery services. FIRST USE: 20031117. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031117
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pjroberge
Ginger Tea called me last night to wish me well and offer words of encouragement. After reading some of the posts, it was a needed pick me up. Thanks Ginger
Despite the sentiments of a few people, I have every confidence that TWI will lose.There are facts that when revealed will be very enlightening.
Did you know that there was a publication called I believe"The Way Magazine" before TWI had theirs?
Or about a church named I believe The Way Christian Ministries, and how they were sued by TWI for trademark infringement?
When I dig the documents out of storage, they will posted for all to see.
You won't believe what happened....
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pjroberge
socks:
It was a joke to make fun of TWI's threats of hand it over or else. And they didn't even make an offer. Too bad, because I sold it to a friend for $1.I was in the process of transferring it to them when the lawsuit hit and the domain registrar locked my access to transfer the domain name to the new owner.
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Hope R.
Okay - I just had a TWI flashback from the Advanced Class I went to in 1995 or '96. When Howard Allen made that awful speech (which I've related about a dozen times), I remember something else he said- anyone else here who remembers, please help me out. I can't quote it word-for-word, but the gist was that "we" meaning TWI, were tracking down everyone who was using the name "the way" and making them give it up - that it was trademark infringment. In the context, I think he was talking about the "spin-off" ministries - but the way I heard it, he sounded like when they were through with the ex-way people, they were going to go after everyone else who was using it for profit.
Does anyone else remember this? I know I'm not dreaming. Radar? Cat? Anyone who was at HQ's back then recall that happening?
Socks - good explanation as usual. Just wondering... "socks.com" or "socks, inc." are broad, unspecific business names name. If you had "socks" trademarked, could you go after someone who had a business and/or website called "socks r us" for using your name as part of their company name?
I think of Flowers.com. The site is actually called 1-800-Flowers.com. If you type "flowers" in google, that's the first hit. But then there is also justflowers.com and virtualflowers.com , aboutflowers.com, proflowers.com, wildflowers.com - and so on and on and on. Can "flowers.com" make them stop using the word "flowers" on their site or keep them from registering their copyrights?
My confusion, I guess, is that TWI went after Pat for using "The Way of Christ International" because it had the term "The Way" in it - not the use of the domain name itself. Is that right?
Personally, I think if it had been anyone else - someone who was not an ex-way follower, or someone who didn't have any type of religious affiliation (i.e. "The Way To Go Bobsleds, International") they might not have blown their lid about it.
Darn, just type "the way" (without the quotes) into google and see what comes up! Then type it with the quotes - TWI's website doesn't even show up until Page 4! (There's actually a site called "The Way Home", and another called "By The Way..." all terms TWI has used at one time or another).
Why aren't they going after these site owners? Sorta makes me go "hmmmmmm?".
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pjroberge
hope: The original name of my "religious" website The Path Of Christ Ministry was The Way Of Christ Ministry(not international.
I had done a diligent check with the NH corporations dept, and after learning that TWI had let their name The Way lapse (for years)and after checking with the trademark office, I went ahead with the name registration.
I registered the name The Way Of Christ Ministry, because quite frankly in my opinion it did not conflict with TWI's trademark. And if you check with the trademark office, there are several trademarks in the religious category (class 41)that would be infringers by TWI's erroneous interpretation of trademark law.
After a few months of the website being up, I received the letter located at the link below from TWI's attorneys. My intellectual property attorney responded to them, and as a precaution, I changed the website name shortly thereafter to its present name.
http://www.waychrist.com/1st_twi_letter.htm
I then filed a trademark application for The Way Of Christ Ministry because I believed it would be cheaper to have the issue decided by the trademark office instead of litigating it($3-400 versus $10,000+)
The trademark office gave preliminary approval for my trademark for religious goods and services in the same class as TWI's trademark.
At the last moment of the the process, TWI filed for an extention to file an opposition, and filed another extention and then another.
Then TWI filed their opposition, and after spending about $2000, I decided that the trademark was not that important.
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Ariel
Dear Pat,
Why would a religeous organization who supposedly cares about people want to fight about another Christian's website? Do they want customers or do they truly wantto help people? IMO it sounds like a business that is afraid of losing clients.
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pjroberge
ariel:
You have nailed the crux of the matter. TWI is losing members and they are doing their lawsuit purely to silence my efforts. They have no valid trademark issue at all.
Kinda interesting that after all this time, they only got the itch to sue me after the Peeler evidentiary hearing was published.
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Ariel
Pat,
You certainly have the hutspa for this, but please don't let it upset you. I see you are a law student! Great!
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Pirate1974
If you have some time to kill, check out the website of the United States Patent and Trademark Office. You can search their data base to see if something has been trademarked.
Apparently, twi has trademarked:
THE WAY
THE WAY INTERNATIONAL
THE WAY CORPS
DISCIPLES OF THE WAY OUTREACH PROGRAM
THE WAY AMBASSADOR WOW
THE WAY OF ABUNDANCE AND POWER
THE WAY MAGAZINE
and these tongue-twisters that apparently refer to their logos:
THE PREVAILING WORD THE WAY INTERNATIONAL NEW KNOXVILLE OHIO EPHESIANS
FOR PEOPLE WHO LOVE GOD AND HIS WORD THE WAY MAGAZINE
THE WAY CORPS IT IS WRITTEN APOSTLES PROPHETS EVANGELISTS PASTORS TEACHERS
Interestingly, it looks like they let their trademark for POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING expire in March 1984, but they're still holding on to PFAL.
Go figure.
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papajohn
seems some people are never happy.
"we hate TWI and I wish someone would take them down"
"TWI is full of bad people and are evil"
"pat, you're wrong for this"
whats the old sayin, .... of get off the pot.
get um pat
:)-->
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diazbro
Pirate1974 said:
Interestingly, it looks like they let their trademark for POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING expire in March 1984, but they're still holding on to PFAL.
>>
An interesting thing to consider is what
might happen if someone else started using
the "power for abundant living" phrase as
the tag for a series of classes and books.
Would TWI spring into action to reclaim it ?
I recall about 5 years ago there was an
advertisement for some books with the title
like "power for living" and then I saw some
publications in a bookstore like "adundant
power for living" and I've even seen articles
referencing "power for adundant life" and
as far as I know thats not provoked any problems. As someone pointed out I bet TWI
would spring into action only if a former
member attempted to assume control of the
trademark.
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Pirate1974
I'm certainly no expert on trademark law, but I would think if they abandoned their trademark on "power for abundant living" that somebody else would be free to claim it.
Maybe Mike would like to have it.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Hi Pirate:
Is there a URL for that web site that you can post regarding doing trademark searches? I would like to examine TWI's claim.
Relating to what Hope wrote. In going after every Christian organization or church that uses the name "The Way" as part of their name. TWI may be chasing after imaginary ghosts.
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Radar OReilly
I have a vague memory of some how, some way, that The Way of Great Britain Ltd may hold the registration if not the trademark for PFAL.
I am not sure if I am correct about this, but it does ring some kind of little bell.
Radar
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Pirate1974
Here's the link where you can search:
Trademark Electronic Search System
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diazbro
pirate1974 said:
I'm certainly no expert on trademark law, but I would think if they abandoned their trademark on "power for abundant living" that somebody else would be free to claim it.
>>
Well thats what I would think but as we
know the law doesn't always follow intuitive reasoning.
Even a casual analysis of TWI website
suggests that its merely a placeholder to provide token evidence of their exsistence on the web. Its vague and employs numerous cliches that give no real indication about the day to day life of TWI devotee.
Even the infamous ICOC (http://www.icoc.org/icocmain/index_new.htm)
(once indicated as TWI's primary competition)
has a web presence that at least tries to appear to be informative.
The point is that ,in my opinion, TWI has no interest in developing a significant on-line presence. Their intent , from my point of view is to cybersquat but they have a slightly better alibi since they are seeking
to control similar names but only once it
becomes clear that an outspoken critic is
interested in it.
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JustThinking
Diazbro,
ICOC? That is a new one to me. Why are they seen as competitors? Is it another offshoot?
JT
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diazbro
justthinking said:
ICOC? That is a new one to me. Why are they seen as competitors? Is it another offshoot?
>>
We might want to take this to another thread
to keep this one on track but here is a synopsis.
ICOC is not new by any means nor are
they Way offshoots but there are plenty of
former followers with tales that rival that
of former Way followers. My local Way leadership
at least around 82 knew about them and called
BCOC a cult ! The pot calling the kettle black.
The BL was just POed that another group was
fishing in TWI water.
Perhaps you know them under another name (perhaps not) The Boston Church of Christ.
They also had an active presence in Atlanta
and were called "The Atlanta Church of Christ". They used to change the name to reflect the city.
They have been kicked off lots of campuses
nationwide for their agressive pursuit of students. Their typical approach was to pay
for some of their younger people to enroll in
college (they made it in on their own merits)
with the goal of recruiting other students.
Most of the BCOC students would spend so much
time recruiting for the church that their studies would suffer but and frequently be put on academic probation and in some cases expelled. But they didn't care as long as they got sufficient "headcount". Another problem was
that they were highly confrontational with
recurits who appeared to be wavering in their
faith and there were many incidents involving
security where a frighened student would complain about verbal abuse and threats of
violence from the BCOC group.
PT me or open another thread if you want more
info but you can do a web search on BCOC , ACOC,
and get plenty of info on this group.
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Trefor Heywood
Radar:
I have no idea if they do or not but one slight correction - it is "The Way in Great Britain" limited - they were forced to change "of" to "in" at the time they registered as a company.
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LG
Pat,
I don’t know why this sticks in my craw. A bit of OCD, perhaps. I’m all for nailing TWI where they’re wrong, but I’m also for justice, doing the right thing, and being sensible, even regarding despicable people and organizations, like TWI.
Again I’ll point out that, if this should proceed to trial, it will be before impartial people, who will not be prejudiced by the attitudes about TWI that are prevalent here.
You’ll have a hard time convincing an impartial person that TWI is harassing you, in order to silence you. Neither the facts, nor the common-sense judgments of impartial people, support those conclusions.
First of all, consider whether silencing you could be TWI’s motive. There is not one thing that you do in publishing information about TWI that depends in any way on using “The Way” in a name or on the “thewayinternational.com” domain. You are not currently using either. You are simply holding on to the domain, even though you have no legitimate use for it. TWI does have a legitimate use for it. They want it, and that’s the whole reason they are suing you to get it. Their having it will not stop you from doing anything you are already doing or prevent you from doing anything you want to do. In other words, TWI’s motive in wanting the domain name has nothing to do with silencing you.
Now consider this timeline, from the perspective of a reasonable, impartial person, with no prejudice against TWI.
“The Way” has been a registered trademark of TWI for many years. “The Way International” has been their trademark for over twenty years, although it has not been registered for most of that time.
TWI registered “theway.org” in 1998. They registered “theway.com” in February of 1999. They didn’t have a website at that time, but likely planned to have one in the future.
Some time after that, you started up “The Way of Christ Ministry” website. You registered the domain you originally used for that site, “thewayofchrist.com”, in June of 1999. There is no obvious reason that TWI would have been aware of your website at that time.
You registered “thewayinternational.com” in September of 1999. There is no obvious reason that TWI would have been aware of that.
You posted on Waydale, and your site was linked from Waydale, so TWI was likely to eventually become aware of your site. They obviously did, because they sent you a letter about your use of the name “The Way of Christ Ministry” in June of 2000. You changed the name of your site to “The Path of Christ Ministry.” You also registered a new domain name, “waychrist.com” in August of 2000, and began using that domain for your “The Path of Christ Ministry” website. That satisfied TWI’s demands at the time. You held on to both “thewayofchrist.com” and “thewayinternational.com” domains, but TWI may not have known that.
In September of 2000, you filed to register “The Way of Christ Ministry” as your trademark. It was published for opposition in September of 2001. TWI opposed, and it was abandoned in August of 2002. As of that time, there still was no obvious reason that TWI would have been aware of your registration of “thewayinternational.com” domain.
In June of 2003, TWI registered the domains “thewayinternational.org”, “thewayinternational.net”, and “thewayinternational.info”. It would have been reasonable for them to attempt to register “thewayinternational.com” at that time, also, but it was already registered to you. That may have been the first they knew about that. It would take some time for that information to get back to a TWI decision-maker, and for a decision to be made to refer the matter to their attorney. It would take more time for the attorney to look into the matter and recommend a course of action. According to you, they sent you a letter in December of 2003. They gave you about three months, and then filed suit. Barring evidence to the contrary, their actions appear to be reasonable, timely, and unrelated to your “ex-cultworld” site or anything you’ve published there.
So, Pat, neither possible motive nor the sequence of events would lead a reasonable, impartial person to the conclusion that TWI is harassing you, in order to silence you.
If a reasonable, impartial person were to see a pattern of harassment, I think it would be one of you harassing TWI. You have no cause for legal action against them. If you ever had such cause, the time limit for acting on it has long since expired. Yet your words in your opening post to this thread, and elsewhere, indicate that you have wanted to sue them, and are glad that they are suing you. A reasonable person might conclude that you have been trying to provoke them, in order to attempt to use a lawsuit filed by them as a vehicle for acquiring and publishing harmful or embarrassing information about them.
This is a fight of your own making. You are holding on to something for which you have no legitimate use, but TWI does. It will cost you nothing to relinquish your claim. Rather, it will save you time, trouble, expense, distraction from other efforts, etc. On the other hand, if you make TWI a reasonable offer, you might even make a little money. If you were to add up your expenses related to the domain, throw in a small amount for your trouble, and take that to an attorney who could deal with TWI on your behalf, I’ll bet you could reach a just settlement in a matter of days. That’s reasonable. Making a big issue over something that could be settled with a couple of telephone calls between lawyers is not. Thinking you’re going to use this to acquire damaging information about TWI, through discovery, or thinking you’re going to waltz into a courtroom and put TWI and their lawyers to shame is beyond unreasonable.
Get a lawyer. Have the lawyer arrange a reasonable settlement. Go on with life.
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GarthP2000
Also realize that the ICANN (the final determiner of the legal ownership of a domain name should conflicts occur) often do not determine who owns a domain name in dispute simply on who nails it first. But rather on how the similarity and relationship of the domain name fits either of the contestants. Ie., If I register 'www.ibm.com' before International Business Machines does; if IBM contests it, too bad, so sad ... for me. Because then ICANN can then determine that I have registered that name 'in bad faith'. I believe Madonna won a case based on this legal reasoning. So no, the timing of registration isn't the final determiner.
And it does look here, as Long Gone pointed out, that this case could most likely be ruled against you, Pat, as you have no direct use for the term 'thewayinternational', but TWI does. And you would be benefitting from this domain name, not in money, but in fame and noteriety, as it undoubtedly is your express purpose to use that domain name as one of your tools to 'expose TWI'. (Yeah! Right! Like they haven't been exposed already?
--> Hell, they are pert near dead in the water, largely because of all of our collective efforts.)
This is Yet Again an example of why one must pick one's battles carefully, and also be well equiped and informed for the battle you do take on. I think Jesus addressed that issue when he was talking about the army general counting the cost of the upcoming battle before he either commits to it, or sends an emissary to discuss terms of peace, ... lest he get his butt *smoked*.
Make sure you don't get your butt smoked, Pat. ... And may I also add my voice in with the others as regards: Get an attorney! Sorry chief, but unless the schooling that you have gotten has focused on copyright and internet law, AND you have done *exceptionally* well in it, I don't think that your level of schooling will withstand TWI's already-seasoned attorneys.
(Where in the hell is LarryP when you need him?
:D--> )
Anywho, that's my 2 1/2 cents worth, adjusted for inflation.
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AdiosMiCorazon
Hi ya Pat!
I have to agree with most of Long Gone's post. I don't think you can ever predict what a jury will do. But, I do think that this matter should be easy to settle out of court. As a future lawyer, you should know that law suits that are based "on principal" are costly and do not really solve anything. I don't know if that is what you are doing, but it sure sounds like it.
I think that you will be better of if you 1. stop posting information that TWI can read and use against you. 2. get a lawyer 3. settle this matter the courts are too busy and they will encourage you to settle out of court. Some Civil courts docket civil matters years in advance. This could take forever and what will you gain? I just don't think it is worth it IMO.
Also, you stated that you sold it to your friend for $1, is that correct? Then you no longer own it, right? So why are you being sued shouldn't they go after the owner?
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AdiosMiCorazon
BTW, that letter TWI's lawyers wrote made me laugh. I can't imagine what it must be like to have to write such things. I bet you TWI has to pay them a lot of money for such foolishness.
Anywho, I forgot to wish you luck Pat and please consider getting a lawyer. You are just learning theory and practicing law is totally different.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Hey PB you tried to sue BOG... wohah... seems there is a pattern of defence words our mouths... say on sue on... jeesh... please say on
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Golfie
I found it! Number 101 in the list of 1553 registered marks that say "the way"
Word Mark THE WAY
Goods and Services IC 042. US 100 101. G & S: Computer services, namely, providing data back-up and recovery services. FIRST USE: 20031117. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20031117
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78334770
Filing Date December 1, 2003
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Restorion, LLC LTD LIAB CO ILLINOIS 2 Kingswood Court Riverwoods ILLINOIS 60015
Attorney of Record Darren Green
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
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