Check out the legal bout between Jews for Jesus and a guy named Brodsky who set up a domain using the organization's name.
Also check out the battle between Jerry Falwell and a guy who registered www.JerryFalwell.com. Despite having support from the ACLU, the fellow apparently relinquished registration of the domain after Falwell's folks discovered Falwell's name had registration as a trademark.
Take note that TWI's site shows the little trademark registration symbol beside The Way International.
I'm no lawyer, but I figure your legal chances of holding onto www.thewayinternational.com are somewhat analogous to the chances your cryogenically preserved sperm would survive a boiling in spermicidal jelly.
Again, I'm no lawyer, but you might also want to quit publicly discussing this here until the lawsuit is resolved. You can bet that the WayGB has copied every bit of this and will use it against you in any way they can, probably to paint you as a malicious, vindictive troublemaker with a grudge instead of an innocent siteholder. That's an instant "bad faith" mark against your case.
And for heaven's sake, get an attorney. "Only a fool has himself as a client".
Zixar, according to Pat, in more than one post on Waydale, TWI did defend its trademark, by threatening to sue him if he did not cease and desist using the domain name, which he did. So long as he did not use it or try to sell it, TWI had no grounds to challenge his ownership of the domain. That changed in February, when he offered the domain for sale at an exorbitant price and that offer was announced here, by IMF777. TWI's response to that was timely. If TWI can document those events (you know they can) I think they will win.
TWI's trademark is "The Way". TWI contends that all variations that incluide way, the way etc are also protected under their trademark. WRONG
quote:So long as he did not use it or try to sell it, TWI had no grounds to challenge his ownership of the domain
I made no such agreement.
I agreed to stop using the domain name "The Way of Christ Ministry" and dropped my attempt at trademarking it.
At the time I may have backed off on my property rights to use the domain name because I was in school and the fight was not worth the effort back then.
Also, the asking price of $15,000 was just that, subject to negotiation, and not exhorbitant, especially if a certain company had the $ and wanted it bad enough.
For the record, I know TWI is copying everything, and hope they introduce it all in court.
On the other hand, what possible reasons could you have for registering and owning thewayinternational.com - than to prevent TWI from using it or to make money selling it?
I mean what was your reason why did you register it?
Appearances are everything in a Court of Law. If I were an attorney for TWI, it would seem like a slam dunk to me. A bitter ex TWI follower getting some kind of revenge. That's how I would approach it freom their side.
If I were you, I would take Zix's advise. Get a good attorney if you don't have one, and take his advise. Ask him/her about the wisdom of posting all this stuff you are posting here concerning this suit.
Lawyer me no, but from my own past experience with trademarking and copyrights, I believe you've got a case. But so do they. The fact they ignored it for so long...it sounds so Wayish, how they change their doctrines and "minds" whenever the wind blows up the MOG/WOG's shorts.
quote: I mean what was your reason why did you register it?
Answer: I registered it originally to use it to guide people looking for information about TWI. That became less important as the magazine scored higher in the search engines.
It was put up for sale because I got TWI's letter in december(I will post it soon) and I thought it would be of a less hassle to get rid of it.
The selling of it was to give TWI an honest way to acquire the domain name from me, and let them save face. Instead, they had to go their threaten everyone we don't like route.
Wouldn't TWI also have to go after any other websites that would also be infringing on thier "supposed" trademark?
And how many would come close to being similar or the same type as thiers?
It looks like they are trying to get all of the sites that would come up in a web search to keep people from finding out the truth about how they operate and treat the members and how many lawsuites are running against them.
TWI has the members ABS money to fund thier projects and defence in the lawsuits. Also we all know that they wouldn't be telling those that are in how much $$$ it is taking to do it either.
Lawyer me no, but from my own past experience with trademarking and copyrights, I believe you've got a case. But so do they.
2 comments. There are many archane aspects of the law that don't make sense to people who are not lawyers. OK maybe they don't make sense at all but that's how things work. In most cases doing your own legal work is about as risky as taking out your own appendix.
Secondly, lawyers love it when both sides "have a case." Makes for huge legal fees. Especially if both sides are emotionally attached to the outcome.
My3cents, it doesn't you're right. I use a legal firm and get counsel for business affairs, even some very minor ones, whether for advice or execution. Likewise with taxes, I don't do my own. The appendix is a good example. I'm going to assume Pat knows the waters pretty well when it comes to the Way and will proceed accordingly.
I, for one, stand behind you, even on basic moral grounds - given the recent recommedation by whatever board decides all of this Net stuff, maybe they might want to register Rosiesrangers.xxx
Check your e-mails. I am sending you information on Trademark law of which I am somewhat familiar. You can do a lot of the preliminary work yourself. If you go to civil court however, you will need a lawyer.
By the way, I just finished my 2nd semester in law school and just finished an advanced course in legal research at the VT Supreme Court library with a former VT Attorney general as the teacher, and a litigation class with a very experienced litigation attorney.
So relax everyone, this court thing is just another homework assignment for me and will be a great and fun experience. It won't be for TWI however.
Years ago I represented myself against an international attorney who was my slum lord and won both times. The 2nd court date I had evidence proving he committed perjury and had a state representative as a witness.
Pat, it seems to me that you had a MUCH stronger case for holding onto your "Way of Christ Ministry" domain name than you do "Thewayinternational.com". There's NO WAY (---get it---"Way"--LOL!) they could have won a suit to deny you access to "The Way of Christ Ministry". And they would have been forced to pay your court cost, when they lost that one! Your current case seems much weaker, IMO. You could be left with some increadibly stiff legal fees, and I'm sure Rosie and Company know this.
By the way, do you have a lawyer? Yes or no? If you're going by your own "legal sleuthing", you could be in for a very nasty surprise. Law school isn't 4 years worth of graduate work for nuthin'.
Current potential "Infringers" of TWI's trademark:
Results 1 - 10 of about 17,100,000 for "the way". (Source:Google)
TOP 20 WEB RESULTS out of about 315,000,000. (Source:Yahoo)
Hey, how about all these millions of companies and people, or are you really only interested in harrassing ex-members?
Have you sued all these other companies? If not why?
I will love to hear you explain this to a jury if you even get that far.I think the judge will throw your stupid lawsuit out on its ridiculous ear quite early. You are so toast....
PS: Tell your attorney they have done a great job of policing your trademark. You wouldn't want another alleged infringer like me to dilute your trademark any further than the millions who have already....
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Cynic
Pat,
Check out the legal bout between Jews for Jesus and a guy named Brodsky who set up a domain using the organization's name.
Also check out the battle between Jerry Falwell and a guy who registered www.JerryFalwell.com. Despite having support from the ACLU, the fellow apparently relinquished registration of the domain after Falwell's folks discovered Falwell's name had registration as a trademark.
Take note that TWI's site shows the little trademark registration symbol beside The Way International.
I'm no lawyer, but I figure your legal chances of holding onto www.thewayinternational.com are somewhat analogous to the chances your cryogenically preserved sperm would survive a boiling in spermicidal jelly.
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pjroberge
As you can see, I have owned the domai name for several years:
Domain: THEWAYINTERNATIONAL.COM
Registrant/Owner:
Patrick Roberge
P.O. Box 305
Hinesburg VT, 05461 0305
US
Created on 1999-09-20 (date I registered it)
Updated on 2004-03-30
Expires on 2004-09-20
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pjroberge
I registered the domain name on 1999-09-20
This was not a recent thing on my part, and TWI has had plenty of years to make an offer or to do something about it.
The timing of their lawsuit shows that they have other motives in mind other than protecting their name or intellectual property right...
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Zixar
Again, I'm no lawyer, but you might also want to quit publicly discussing this here until the lawsuit is resolved. You can bet that the WayGB has copied every bit of this and will use it against you in any way they can, probably to paint you as a malicious, vindictive troublemaker with a grudge instead of an innocent siteholder. That's an instant "bad faith" mark against your case.
And for heaven's sake, get an attorney. "Only a fool has himself as a client".
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LG
Zixar, according to Pat, in more than one post on Waydale, TWI did defend its trademark, by threatening to sue him if he did not cease and desist using the domain name, which he did. So long as he did not use it or try to sell it, TWI had no grounds to challenge his ownership of the domain. That changed in February, when he offered the domain for sale at an exorbitant price and that offer was announced here, by IMF777. TWI's response to that was timely. If TWI can document those events (you know they can) I think they will win.
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LG
We posted at the same time, Zixar. There's nothing in this thread that TWI doesn't already know and have documented.
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Zixar
LG: I didn't remember all that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I believe you're right, if that is the case.
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pjroberge
TWI's trademark is "The Way". TWI contends that all variations that incluide way, the way etc are also protected under their trademark. WRONG
I made no such agreement.I agreed to stop using the domain name "The Way of Christ Ministry" and dropped my attempt at trademarking it.
At the time I may have backed off on my property rights to use the domain name because I was in school and the fight was not worth the effort back then.
Also, the asking price of $15,000 was just that, subject to negotiation, and not exhorbitant, especially if a certain company had the $ and wanted it bad enough.
For the record, I know TWI is copying everything, and hope they introduce it all in court.
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Goey
Pat,
On the other hand, what possible reasons could you have for registering and owning thewayinternational.com - than to prevent TWI from using it or to make money selling it?
I mean what was your reason why did you register it?
Appearances are everything in a Court of Law. If I were an attorney for TWI, it would seem like a slam dunk to me. A bitter ex TWI follower getting some kind of revenge. That's how I would approach it freom their side.
If I were you, I would take Zix's advise. Get a good attorney if you don't have one, and take his advise. Ask him/her about the wisdom of posting all this stuff you are posting here concerning this suit.
Good Luck
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socks
Hey Pat, that makes sense, thanks.
Also, Goey's question is one I would have myself.
Lawyer me no, but from my own past experience with trademarking and copyrights, I believe you've got a case. But so do they. The fact they ignored it for so long...it sounds so Wayish, how they change their doctrines and "minds" whenever the wind blows up the MOG/WOG's shorts.
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pjroberge
Answer: I registered it originally to use it to guide people looking for information about TWI. That became less important as the magazine scored higher in the search engines.
It was put up for sale because I got TWI's letter in december(I will post it soon) and I thought it would be of a less hassle to get rid of it.
The selling of it was to give TWI an honest way to acquire the domain name from me, and let them save face. Instead, they had to go their threaten everyone we don't like route.
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danteh1
Wouldn't TWI also have to go after any other websites that would also be infringing on thier "supposed" trademark?
And how many would come close to being similar or the same type as thiers?
It looks like they are trying to get all of the sites that would come up in a web search to keep people from finding out the truth about how they operate and treat the members and how many lawsuites are running against them.
TWI has the members ABS money to fund thier projects and defence in the lawsuits. Also we all know that they wouldn't be telling those that are in how much $$$ it is taking to do it either.
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My3Cents
2 comments. There are many archane aspects of the law that don't make sense to people who are not lawyers. OK maybe they don't make sense at all but that's how things work. In most cases doing your own legal work is about as risky as taking out your own appendix.
Secondly, lawyers love it when both sides "have a case." Makes for huge legal fees. Especially if both sides are emotionally attached to the outcome.
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socks
My3cents, it doesn't you're right. I use a legal firm and get counsel for business affairs, even some very minor ones, whether for advice or execution. Likewise with taxes, I don't do my own. The appendix is a good example. I'm going to assume Pat knows the waters pretty well when it comes to the Way and will proceed accordingly.
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pjroberge
Duplicate post by mistake
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Digger
I, for one, stand behind you, even on basic moral grounds - given the recent recommedation by whatever board decides all of this Net stuff, maybe they might want to register Rosiesrangers.xxx
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Mark Sanguinetti
Pat:
Check your e-mails. I am sending you information on Trademark law of which I am somewhat familiar. You can do a lot of the preliminary work yourself. If you go to civil court however, you will need a lawyer.
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pjroberge
Mark: I received your e-mail, and thanks.
By the way, I just finished my 2nd semester in law school and just finished an advanced course in legal research at the VT Supreme Court library with a former VT Attorney general as the teacher, and a litigation class with a very experienced litigation attorney.
So relax everyone, this court thing is just another homework assignment for me and will be a great and fun experience. It won't be for TWI however.
Years ago I represented myself against an international attorney who was my slum lord and won both times. The 2nd court date I had evidence proving he committed perjury and had a state representative as a witness.
Should have seen the look on his face....
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Cherished Child
Pat, it seems to me that you had a MUCH stronger case for holding onto your "Way of Christ Ministry" domain name than you do "Thewayinternational.com". There's NO WAY (---get it---"Way"--LOL!) they could have won a suit to deny you access to "The Way of Christ Ministry". And they would have been forced to pay your court cost, when they lost that one! Your current case seems much weaker, IMO. You could be left with some increadibly stiff legal fees, and I'm sure Rosie and Company know this.
By the way, do you have a lawyer? Yes or no? If you're going by your own "legal sleuthing", you could be in for a very nasty surprise. Law school isn't 4 years worth of graduate work for nuthin'.
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pjroberge
cc: read my post above. I am in law school and am graduating in sept form an advanced paralegal program
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Goey
Pat,
I say this will all respect -- 2 semesters of Law school hardly makes you a qualified and experienced lawyer.
Why don't you ask your favorite law professor what he thinks about you representing yourself?
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templelady
Pat check your PT please
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No Way
kind of like my user name
:)-->
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pjroberge
Hey TWI, a little reality check:
Current potential "Infringers" of TWI's trademark:
Results 1 - 10 of about 17,100,000 for "the way". (Source:Google)
TOP 20 WEB RESULTS out of about 315,000,000. (Source:Yahoo)
Hey, how about all these millions of companies and people, or are you really only interested in harrassing ex-members?
Have you sued all these other companies? If not why?
I will love to hear you explain this to a jury if you even get that far.I think the judge will throw your stupid lawsuit out on its ridiculous ear quite early. You are so toast....
PS: Tell your attorney they have done a great job of policing your trademark. You wouldn't want another alleged infringer like me to dilute your trademark any further than the millions who have already....
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