told me that if I wanted HIM to actually get my letters to put the letter in a second envelope inside the outside envelope. The inside envelope should say on it "VPW confidential" then he would get THAT letter otherwise it was answered by his staff.
You know...some how that seems down right dishonest....here you set yourself up as mog of our day and time...you encourage people to believe that you love them...that you want the best for them....that you are at their disposal....people write you...earnestly wanting/needing answeres to spiritual dilemma...thrilled with the reply that they get from THE mog of the 21st century....in reality it was answered by some staff member....not only answered ...but it would appear that he can`t even be bothered to SIGN the friggin thing....seems like yet one more betrayal of trust.....WHY this suprises me, I don`t know....
That sweet little blurb at the end of pfal about writing to the *teacher* ...baaaah just one more lie.
I suppose he had someone ELSE do all of that praying he swore that he personally did for each and every one of the wows every day....
I was an executive asst. for a Vice Prez and I signed his name all the time. I responded to some of his mail and only took things I thought were appropriate to him. It really is common place.
Perhaps a Christian org should have done better by at least telling you that Dr. so and so passed the letter on to me....
But hey, people got a thrill out of thinking VPW actually answered them and I guess everyone thought that was the kind thing to do. Maybe not honest... But kind... I guess.
Om I will try and hunt down anything I may have left and compare it. I have notes that were completely hand written. I may not have them anymore. Possibly still in a trunk that has been closed for years.
quote:Om I will try and hunt down anything I may have left and compare it. I have notes that were completely hand written. I may not have them anymore. Possibly still in a trunk that has been closed for years.
Ok Dot, thanks.
quote:It makes me wonder, if the person who did the typing might have also done the signing...
correct!
It also makes me wonder what percentage of letters would have actually made it to the addresse?
I think very few of them after 1982. From what Dot said, all of them could have been intercepted unless they were in a separate envelope.
quote:I gotta ask...Which one of the 3 is the one you used to answer his letters? (You told me on another thread you used to answer his letters.)
It may be common place....but in a christian ministry where folks were led to believe that they actually had access to the mog....that he really cared enough about them personally...enough to send a personal response.......I think is dishonest...( though when hypocracy and dishonesty in twi will quit suprising me...I don`t know)
I would much rather know that he didn`t have time to respond....than to have a response I ... a fake letter that I treasured as my personal corespondance from THE mog
The first two signatures appear to be by the same person. Remember, no one signs their name exactly the same way twice, but the slant, pressure, and general pattern of the letters will be similar. Also, the first signature reminds me of the way Wierwille signed his mass-mailed letters and Way Mag articles. So I would guess that the first 2 signatures are his.
The third one is very different -- different pressure, different slant, much more loopy letters, whereas the first two are much more boxy. That's your staff person signature, I'd bet.
The one on the top looks exactly like Mrs. Wierwille's handwriting.... I have received several things from her over the years... always written exactly like that.
For what it is worth, sig #1 very closely resembles the one on the zippo lighter I have. One side has the signature, and the other the founder/ president/ Way International logo. If I were he, and i were having a limited number of lighter's imprinted with my name, I would think I would use my real signature. Afterall, I am a rather vain person who would get a charge out of seeing my real signature.
On the lighter, the only difference I see is that the t in Victor has an open loop, like in sigs 2 and 3, but the lighter has the same spacing of the lle as in sig 1, and also the same formation of the V, P, and W as well as most the other intermediate letters.
1978 - All MO wows bus to HQ for a weekend. VPW has a meeting with us. He says he answers all letters, but there's so many he may have to staff some out soon like Billy Graham, but he hopes he doesn't have to do this.
1981 - I wrote a letter to him basically thanking him for his ministry. Not too sappy, just cordial. A month or so later I get this letter that says "thank you for sharing your heart with me in a letter..." (that kind of tone a page long). Gosh!
1984 - VPW comes to STL for a meeting. We are told beforehand that if we bring our copies of the Holy Spirit book we got at Living Victoriously VP will autograph it. So I did; still have it. I have reason to believe this signature is really his because he signed it "Victor Paul W" as 2 of Oldies 3 are signed, only the W doesn't even look like a letter; it looks like an unfinished U that trails off to the left. This suggests that he signed all the books in haste during a break.
I also have reason to believe it isn't his signature. All Oldies' examples have the W trail off to the right, Mrs. W was there, and this was September of '84, less than 1 year before he died, so signing that many books might have been a chore for him at that point. The signature I have looks like it could match any of the 3 signatures Oldies posted. I don't know, really.
Interestingly, at that same meeting we were told that VP noticed that Earl Burton's book 'Spiritual phenomena in the senses realm' was on sale at the bookstore, and he got mad and demanded it be removed. (?)
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ItsStillTheWord
Multiple signatures.
Does this mean he had a split personality?
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def59
Just proof that vpw was too busy working the women- er word to be bothered with signing a document.
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Dot Matrix
VP
told me that if I wanted HIM to actually get my letters to put the letter in a second envelope inside the outside envelope. The inside envelope should say on it "VPW confidential" then he would get THAT letter otherwise it was answered by his staff.
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rascal
You know...some how that seems down right dishonest....here you set yourself up as mog of our day and time...you encourage people to believe that you love them...that you want the best for them....that you are at their disposal....people write you...earnestly wanting/needing answeres to spiritual dilemma...thrilled with the reply that they get from THE mog of the 21st century....in reality it was answered by some staff member....not only answered ...but it would appear that he can`t even be bothered to SIGN the friggin thing....seems like yet one more betrayal of trust.....WHY this suprises me, I don`t know....
That sweet little blurb at the end of pfal about writing to the *teacher* ...baaaah just one more lie.
I suppose he had someone ELSE do all of that praying he swore that he personally did for each and every one of the wows every day....
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Dot Matrix
Most companies do that.
I was an executive asst. for a Vice Prez and I signed his name all the time. I responded to some of his mail and only took things I thought were appropriate to him. It really is common place.
Perhaps a Christian org should have done better by at least telling you that Dr. so and so passed the letter on to me....
But hey, people got a thrill out of thinking VPW actually answered them and I guess everyone thought that was the kind thing to do. Maybe not honest... But kind... I guess.
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Dot Matrix
Om I will try and hunt down anything I may have left and compare it. I have notes that were completely hand written. I may not have them anymore. Possibly still in a trunk that has been closed for years.
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Zshot
I heard from a reliable source...
Some letter's were answered by dictating the responce into a tape recorder. Then they were typed up (was a "common" business practice).
It makes me wonder, if the person who did the typing might have also done the signing...
It also makes me wonder what percentage of letters would have actually made it to the addresse?
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CoolWaters
I gotta ask...
Which one of the 3 is the one you used to answer his letters? (You told me on another thread you used to answer his letters.)
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oldiesman
Ok Dot, thanks.
I think very few of them after 1982. From what Dot said, all of them could have been intercepted unless they were in a separate envelope.
Coolwaters, I don't know what you mean.
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rascal
It may be common place....but in a christian ministry where folks were led to believe that they actually had access to the mog....that he really cared enough about them personally...enough to send a personal response.......I think is dishonest...( though when hypocracy and dishonesty in twi will quit suprising me...I don`t know)
I would much rather know that he didn`t have time to respond....than to have a response I ... a fake letter that I treasured as my personal corespondance from THE mog
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Zshot
As a point of history...
President Kennedy had members of his staff sign documents, pictures etc. with his signature.
It has been (and can be) documented which "staffer" signed what.
Of course, we expected more from twi. We believed that we were special and important to the "leadership".
IMO, we were nothing more to them that a means to there end...
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shazdancer
Dear Oldies,
The first two signatures appear to be by the same person. Remember, no one signs their name exactly the same way twice, but the slant, pressure, and general pattern of the letters will be similar. Also, the first signature reminds me of the way Wierwille signed his mass-mailed letters and Way Mag articles. So I would guess that the first 2 signatures are his.
The third one is very different -- different pressure, different slant, much more loopy letters, whereas the first two are much more boxy. That's your staff person signature, I'd bet.
Regards,
Shaz
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Trefor Heywood
I only wrote to VPW once with some information he had requested about I.K. Brunel.
The reply was handwritten on an aerogram so I assume it was him personally.
I probably still have it somewhere but do not have the time to mount a major signature hunt at this time!
:D-->
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oldiesman
Shaz, thanks for your response.
From my source, I can relay that Wierwille Signature #1 and Wierwille Signature #2 are NOT the same person!
Maybe one of them is the REAL Wierwille?
P.S. Thanks for all responses from everyone...but only 27 poll participants so far, if you haven't voted yet please do...
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Tom Strange
I think signature number 1 is veepee his own self's signature.
I think signature number 2 is veepee's Advanced Christ Formed Within Spirit's signature.
I think signature number 3 is MYkael's signature as his hand was pushed around by his own Advanced Christ Formed Within Spirit.
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Catcup
The one on the top looks exactly like Mrs. Wierwille's handwriting.... I have received several things from her over the years... always written exactly like that.
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Oakspear
Which is the most loving of "Doctor" Wierwille's signatures?
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HAPe4me
For what it is worth, sig #1 very closely resembles the one on the zippo lighter I have. One side has the signature, and the other the founder/ president/ Way International logo. If I were he, and i were having a limited number of lighter's imprinted with my name, I would think I would use my real signature. Afterall, I am a rather vain person who would get a charge out of seeing my real signature.
On the lighter, the only difference I see is that the t in Victor has an open loop, like in sigs 2 and 3, but the lighter has the same spacing of the lle as in sig 1, and also the same formation of the V, P, and W as well as most the other intermediate letters.
~HAPe4me
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Shellon
I agree with catcup, number one is Mrs. W's.
# 2 and 3 don't look like any of the signatures on the letters I have.
None of the above.
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WordWolf
Sounds like he may have decided his handwriting wasn't that special-looking,
and so he NEVER used his own signature.
Instead, he used other people's handwriting for his own.
This is pretty consistent with his established M.O....
"yeah, vpw did everything, nobody else did anything..."
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johniam
OK, this is my 2 cents...
1978 - All MO wows bus to HQ for a weekend. VPW has a meeting with us. He says he answers all letters, but there's so many he may have to staff some out soon like Billy Graham, but he hopes he doesn't have to do this.
1981 - I wrote a letter to him basically thanking him for his ministry. Not too sappy, just cordial. A month or so later I get this letter that says "thank you for sharing your heart with me in a letter..." (that kind of tone a page long). Gosh!
1984 - VPW comes to STL for a meeting. We are told beforehand that if we bring our copies of the Holy Spirit book we got at Living Victoriously VP will autograph it. So I did; still have it. I have reason to believe this signature is really his because he signed it "Victor Paul W" as 2 of Oldies 3 are signed, only the W doesn't even look like a letter; it looks like an unfinished U that trails off to the left. This suggests that he signed all the books in haste during a break.
I also have reason to believe it isn't his signature. All Oldies' examples have the W trail off to the right, Mrs. W was there, and this was September of '84, less than 1 year before he died, so signing that many books might have been a chore for him at that point. The signature I have looks like it could match any of the 3 signatures Oldies posted. I don't know, really.
Interestingly, at that same meeting we were told that VP noticed that Earl Burton's book 'Spiritual phenomena in the senses realm' was on sale at the bookstore, and he got mad and demanded it be removed. (?)
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oldiesman
Ok I'm ready to spill the beans.
According to my source, who knows VP's real signature and examined all three signatures, No's 1 and 2 are from his handlers;
#3 is the REAL WIERWILLE
#2 is from his secretary at that time
#1 is from one of his handlers, don't know who
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ItsStillTheWord
Can I change my vote?
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excathedra
oak, that might be one of the funniest posts i have ever seen
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