Dot and Ex10, great observations about peoples/twiggers expectations from "corps". Sometimes no matter what we did it was never enough.
So how long do you let these "wonderful believers" ride/skate/coast/....drain you of every ounce of vitality you have????? At some point a baby stands and walks on his own. Right?? Thus there WERE believers that were dealt with seemingly harshly. But the observer who thought that, probably hadn't had 5 phone calls in two weeks at 3am from this "wonderful believer" that just couldn't/wouldn't handle their own problems.
So... yeah, some people got screamed at... somebody tells me for three years they want to change but never does anything TO change... sorry I'M GONNA TELL EM THE TRUTH!!!
You know em... lesssss seeeeeee um... the woman that's been married 3 times... and she's considering her forth, and they've all been abusers... and the 4th intended is too... but she can't see what EVERYBODY else can so easily.
(Please don't take offense ladies, this one was just real easy to come up with spur of the moment... it applies to men as well.)
WD... VERY astute! LOTS of people want others to make the decision for them/tell them what to do.... thus releaving themselves of any responsibility for the outcome. How many times did wc do that (and have it thrown back in their face...) Because
a: they were on an ego trip and felt flattered because it fed their ego
b: they thought (only God knows why) they shouldbe able to answer all the questions AND really thought they were helping that person. "why certainly you should go corps, God called you to be corps".
No God didn't.You just think it looks fun but don't want to take the blame if you get there and hate it... leaves you an easy out in your own mind.
So in some ways wc were screwed either way. If you didn't have enough insight to determine who was who.... AND VERY FEW OF US DID, you resorted to "stock" treatment. You mimiced other "leaders" you liked/respected/thought were cool.... God help the poor soul if you mimiced a "bad" leader!!
I close with this thought...
The wc was like ANY group, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, United Way... It was PEOPLE... there were...The good, the bad, and the ugly!
Oh, yeah, I have to tell you about one particular couple who believe I am probably the harshest, most unfeeling Way Corps person on the face of the earth, because I refused to allow them to have a fellowship.
This couple in Northwest Indiana knew one of our fellowships in our area had grown so large that it had outgrown the livingroom of the fellowship coordinator and we were considering who was the best candidate to take the new fellowship.
We were considering one particular fellow who was a recent PFAL grad. Although he had only taken the class a month or so previously, he was quite mature and confident. And out of all the possible candidates, he was the only one who most closely met the criteria in I and II Timothy of what a leader ought to be.
I got a curious call from one of our fellowship coordinators that a particular woman was calling up all the FC's and actually lobbying for their support in her effort to be the new FC.
Then we got a call from this couple.... I should say, though, we actually got a call from the wife, who was the one making all the phone calls. She told me she wanted the fellowship, and felt she and her husband should have it, because she "had been in the Word much longer." She had been a PFAL and Intermediate class grad for oh, lets say at least 4 or 5 years, and her husband maybe a year or two less than that. But I wasn't going to base my decision on time spent "in the Word" alone.
When I told her that it was out of the question and I told her specifically why, she was irate and demanded a meeting. So we met. And from the books of I and II Timothy I illustrated plainly what disqualified them from leading a fellowship at that time.
While her husband sat silently throughout the meeting, his wife interrupted repeatedly and argued adamantly why she should be trusted with the lives of about 10-12 people, even after I showed her from I & II Timothy exactly why she was disqualified, and proved it with incidents of the pattern of her behavior over the last several years I had known her.
The woman was not satisfied with my explanation. After about a three hour meeting, she stormed out of my house. She called up every person in the branch and told them how wicked I was. She called up the Limb Coordinator and told him how mean and horrible I was and demanded he meet with her and make her the FC of this new group of 10-12 people.
The LC agreed to meet with her, but only with me present.
So, the LC takes the time out of his busy schedule to come up to Munster and meet with this woman and myself. She in the mean time has called up every person in the branch and defamed me and my husband for not allowing them to have the new fellowship, and lied about what we actually told her.
The LC patiently listened to her side of the story, which took about 2 hours to tell. I patiently listened while biting my lips while she lied through her teeth about what occurred in the previous meeting and discussions we had about why she was disqualified. I sat on my hands and clenched my jaw and kept my mouth shut while I listened to the most vile vitriolic venom pour from this womans mouth in lies about my husband and myself. Then when I was allowed to speak, she constantly interrupted me, but I proved again from the written Word of God exactly why this woman was disqualified.
The LC agreed.
This woman was incensed and caused such a disturbance among the entire branch by calling up every single person and defaming not only me and my husband, but the LC for not allowing her to be responsible for the spiritual lives of about a dozen people. She eventually caused such a disturbance, that the LC had to come down and do a special meeting to address problems that arose in the branch that this woman had caused because I wouldn't let her be a FC. He said to the branch that in all his years in The Way International, he had never heard such vicious false accusations against another person.
Eventually, yes, she had to be marked and avoided.
Why, you ask, should I consider giving a fellowship to what appeared to be a neophite compared to a woman who had been "in the Word" for 4-5 years? Four little words:
"Not given to wine..."
She was a rip roaring drunk. Over the several years that I had known this woman, she had called me up at various times in the middle of the night so drunk she was incoherent. And the next day, would not even remember she had called. And many other times in the middle of the day, the same issues would arise, time and again, despite repeated counseling. The woman was a true alcoholic, but refused to admit it, refused to moderate her drinking or her destructive behavior.
Many times I had counseled with her when she came to me with issues regarding her drinking and the way in which it complicated her marriage and life. Suffice it to say, I was not going to put the lives of 12 innocent individuals in the hands of an irresponsible person who had no control over her own life, whose personal life was a pit of iniquity.
And for that, I am sure in her mind, I am still one of those @$$hole Way Corps who blew into town with no regard for the "peons" and wanted to "lord it over God's people" and disregard the advice of "old timer" grads from the area who "knew it all."
Well, catcup--I am sure some might see you that way... but I believe that even those who I have been in disagreement with on this thread would see that life is a two-way street--not "all" are always the way the some have been perceived. TWI attracted it's share of jerks; some went WOW, some went in the corps and some stayed right where they were for 25 years. As Al said, the good, the bad and the ugly....
This thread sure has taken an interesting turn. Thanks ex-Corps folks for broadening the picture a bit.
In my observation, there were several less-than-optimum behaviors and mindsets feeding off each other.
There are always people who want to be told what to do, who couldn't make a decision for themselves if their lives depended on it. To these kind of people a twig coordinator is just another person who they can look to for all the answers. Only they don't follow through, they don't follow your advice, but are there again the next week with the same or a similar problem. When you don't supply the answers that they like, they shop around.
Then a Way Corps grad shows up. All new and shiney and zealous for the Word. No matter what this individual Way Corps grad holds in their heart, the propaganda from HQ is that a special breed of cat is coming to town. Way Corps is showing up. Someone trained and committed and (the implication is) smarter than you, more committed than you, and crammed full of more bible than you'll ever know.
So naturally the always-have-a-problem folks swarm all over the new WC grad.
The other folks, who may have gotten along just fine, think that maybe they should get some counsel from this wise Way Corps grad. Maybe the WC grad starts believing his own press releases!
Most of my pre-1990 expewrience with Corps grads was pretty neutral: I didn't bother them and they didn't bother me. I saw good & bad and smart & stupid and loving & unloving in about the same ratios as the general population. Post-1990 was different.
Post-1990, even the seemingly nice folks just had to stick their nose in our affairs. We had to have meetings about setting goals, and "report back" on all manner of life's details. Nothing we did was too small to be scrutinized by our "leaders". I know that most of them were just following orders from above, but it's tough to see the good in someone whose doing surprise inspections or demanding schedules.
I don’t recall ever going to a ‘C’ grad for advise or with a problem. I did on a few occasions experience people in my Twigs calling ‘C’ to tattle on me.
Catcup-
“And for that, I am sure in her mind, I am still one of those @$$hole Way Corps who blew into town with no regard for the "peons" and wanted to "lord it over God's people" and disregard the advice of "old timer" grads from the area who "knew it all." “
While this scenario never happened to me, it did happen to a friend of mine (Frank T.) in San Diego. Frank ran Twigs in his home, in English, Spanish and Tagolog. His Twigs routinely split and sometimes where used to ‘feed’ the other twigs in the surrounding area. One year in about 1990, Someone realized that 20 Twigs had all been split originally from his, so Frank was setup as a Branch Coord. Then a year later, someone realized that Frank was not ‘C’. So then they re-distributed the twigs, to other branches. Frank has always had lots of believers living in his house, usually while OJT-learning networking. They even split up his Twig and assigned each person living in his house to attend different twigs in separate Branches. They were forbidden to pray or BM together in their home, and no two of them could attend the same twig together. Frank stayed loyal for a long time. In about 1995, he was finally told that he was no longer allowed to attend any TWI fellowship. Now he is right back to multiple fellowships, in his home, in multiple languages, and anyone out of work gets job training. We get his weekly teachings, he is still HOT for the Word, though loving to everyone.
Oakspear-
“Post-1990, even the seemingly nice folks just had to stick their nose in our affairs. We had to have meetings about setting goals, and "report back" on all manner of life's details. Nothing we did was too small to be scrutinized by our "leaders". I know that most of them were just following orders from above, but it's tough to see the good in someone whose doing surprise inspections or demanding schedules.”
Yeah this hit us in 1997, while we were on a family trip, our home was searched and it was discovered that we had books written by Rev. Cummins. We refused to publicly burn them, so we were thrown out (third time).
As I look through many of the previous posts on this thread, I see a common theme. Can anyone else see it? Perhaps it can be explained to Alfakat.
Diazbro-“ Once someone told me that they got $50 from their Limb guy. Hmmm. But listen to the story. The guy had been doing free mechanic work on the LC's car, had helped paint his house, was shuttling people with no cars back and forth to twigs, was giving 4 people a ride to the ROA okay. So presumably in a token of recognition of this guys work the LC wanted to acknowledge him.. BUT the $50 was not cash - it was going to be donated when the guy put his money in for the Advanced Class. So there never was a $50 gift - just a carrot on the stick to take another damn class.”
“And worse yet, some even took their frustrations out on those in the field , asserting their leadership positions to the avergage guy perhaps in reaction to the growing confusion and deception at HQ. I could see this happening.”
“So once HQ got wind of all this they sent down some "professionals" to tell us how we should really do it. It was horrible. I mean horrible. They killed all growth and twig attendance plummetted. These guys were such jerks and focused on things like the cleanliness of someone's car or the lack of attention to how the horn of plenty was displayed. I thought it was like a practical joke but it wasn't. Of course who did they blame for the slump ? US ! We were ripped up and down. I recall lots of people leaving and never returning. It was so sad. Now - Does this experience suggest that all corps people were jerks and horrible people ? As I've said before I don't think so. But the fact that something like I described could happen with the blessing of HQ suggests that they were auhtorized to behave in this fashion. They certainly weren't discouraged form behaving like control freak aholes. As I mentioned before - at times like this
someone would show up and try to buddy up with us all - make nice and try to brush over the badness that had just happened. It was so transparent and insulting.”
“My experince is that corps people did more to polarize branches and twigs and alienate people than any so called "seed boy" did. They were the ones who provoked the "get off the fence - you are either with us or against" mentality that broke up friendships and even marriages.”
Rascal-“ After a while I got pretty cynical about every leader who came along pretending to be my best buddy...wanting me to believe that they were vitally interested in my life ...wanting only the very best for me....blech”
“After a while it seemed like we were only a means to an end with our leadership...keep us built up.... *happy* so we would preform to standard...witnessing... classes...numbers were always the measuring stick and standard for excellence in any area I was in....seemed like we were only valuable as long as we were producing...”
Hope-“ No one who I know of that was a loving and caring leader in TWI 1 or 2 and stayed in through TWI 3 & 4 remained that way. No one. And I watched them change over the years, too. It wasn't a pretty sight.”
LuckyGril- “I think it mattered if you were a favorite of the "mean" ones or not. We were very favored & not put under a lot of scrutiny because, well, we towed the line. And we acted like them when the occasion presented itself. Make no mistake, if you messed up, these guys would crawl done your throat too...favorite or not.”
WW- “This is not to say every territory, branch or tc was so motivated (some were already trying to climb the ladder), but I think that's where most of the uncorrupted leaders were.”
“I think Galen just proved my point about wc and leadership. The ones who really wanted to help people stayed on the field and worked their little hearts out locally. The ones who wanted to be in charge climbed the ladder, and circled the Limb locales like vultures. Those are the ones Galen saw.”
“Others worked their way to Limb, and, I expect, other places, because they wanted to get to fancy-schmancy titles and perks. You didn't scheme to get to where you were sent.”
Ex- “From my experience as a branch coordinator, and then territory coordinator, it seems that these "leadership positions" were a real dividing point. . . . . Once a postion above territory coord got offered, the decision had to be made whether to "full time with the ministry" or not. Those who chose to go "full time" had to be pretty sold out to the organization, because now they were employees, usually and dependent on towing the company line for their bread and butter. The branch and territory coords were still "volunteers" and seemed to be more willing to speak up and be assertive about policies and proceedures, cause we were busting our buts doing everything the regular twiggies were doing and more. Once the waypay started coming in, things changed drastically. Catch my drift?”
“Once we realized this, we decided that we were NOT cut out to be "leaders," in the sense that the corporation demanded. So we opted out, and refused to take any more "corps assignments," that involved doing anything more than running a twig. It was the only HONEST thing we felt like we could do.”
Dot- “We both saw very nasty corps. Horrible empowered people.”
“THERE WERE CREEPS. Oh, my could we tell you stories about being in rez with them or under them on the field! I understand how you feel.”
“For the most part, we did not get to choose our assignments they were given to us. There were good and bad corps sprinkled all over. But many (not all) of the BETTER assignments went to those that sold out (not all).”
Kit- “Bxx Mxxxxxxxx and these other guys who trade their heart of flesh for a heart of stone are just nuts.”
Socks- “...yet I always had some Wise Elder on my a$$ telling me what a lousy job I was doing because I didn't do it "the right way" or according to the Holy Rules of Behavior of the Way.”
Radar- “I totally agree that lots of us were total SCREW UPS, total IDIOTS, total LOOSERS and totally devoid of spiritual judgement and or/spiritual concern for others. ON the other hand, there were PLENTY OF US that were just IDIOTS.”
Catcup- “Those who had the propensity to become asskissing corporate clones, did so fairly quickly, and played that game quite well.”
I was out as a WOW and I was corps. I had a girl in my "family" who did not bathe - ever. She did not brush her teeth, she did not change her clothes and she smelled so bad I cannot even suggest how bad in print.
I really felt terribly over-matched about how to deal with it. I never knew anyone who refused to bathe. The other WOW's were complaining (rightfully so), as was the other family. She could not get a job for the obvious reasons.
So, here we are two weeks after the ROA and she is sleeping in the same clothes she wore EVERY day. I kept asking her "Are you okay?" Thinking something bad happened to force this behavior. "Are you going to wear that again?" "Do you need to use my shampoo?" I tried to be subtle. I thought once she gets comfortable she would bathe and change her clothes on her own without my having to talk about it, or insist upon it. It was awkward.
She did not.
So, we all got jobs except for her and began to bring in some money and some people to twig. I covered her bills with money I had in the bank. Then, I had the talk with her. She acted like she understood.
She changed her clothes but she did not bathe.
We spoke again. Then, she did get into the tub but did not brush her teeth or wash her hair.
I made up a chart and told her she had to check things off on the chart and hand it to me.
She had enough sense that when she had her "time of the month" to use proper things and throw them out in the trash... Why couldn't she bathe?
Some days she would hand me the chart and you could see she had not bathed. So, I told her we could not live with someone who refused to take a bath. It was a bad example and counter productive to why she was a WOW.
I asked her if she wanted to leave the field? Are you okay? Why won't you bathe?
She lied about it and continued to "miss things" on the chart such as "brush teeth"...
She still did not have a job and I used more of my money to pay her share, as the others did not earn enough to help cover her.
Checklist:
Wash hair
Brush teeth
Take a bath
Change underwear
Put on clean clothes
I told the LC and he said to "work with her".
So, I went into the bathroom with her and watched while she brushed her teeth and put actual suds on her stringy greasy hair...
Then, one day the LC takes her "away" for a couple days. Later, I find out she was pregnant. She was wrapping up "sanitary pads" and putting them in the trash to hide the fact.
The LC took her to have an abor*ion.
Guess who was a jerk? I was. The LC thought I was a jerk because I should have spiritually known she was pregnant AND the WOW thought I was a jerk because I watched her brush her teeth and wash her hair. (How dare I?)
There were two sides to the coin. In this case, I was the coin. One side LC thought I was a jerk and the other side WOW thought I was a jerk.
Yes, there were awful corps. There was nice corps. There were awful believers. There were nice believers. We were in a cult...
Galen in rereading your post it seems that we were a group of extremes. Extremely nice or extremely not nice and so forth. Extremely cool (played in a band) or extremely weird ( would not bathe). They put us together to "learn" something. Thing is a lot of us learned how to be unhappy and leave. We were suppose to be moving toward a balance... But they did not have that marked. People bounced back and forth from extremes. I am sure there are exceptions to this. But as we are all talking it brings back my experiences and there sure were a lot of people I considered unhealthy on both sides of the coin. As was I, for staying in a place where no matter what you did it was "not good enough" or it was "the wrong thing to do" to someone. It was a breeding ground for defeat.
Once in rez, a guy stood in front of a door just looking at it. I believe it went like this...
He was asked, "What cha doin'?"
He said. "I don't know if I am allowed to open it or not."
He was asked, "What?"
"I was asked to get something and I don't know if I can open the door. I don't want to do the wrong thing."
That was the corps. Everything was the "wrong thing" until you broke into a boot lickin', azz kissing, mean jerk who taught the "weirwiile" philosphies to people. The corps was about breaking people down - not building them up and restoring them to something better -- they broke you if they could, and left you that way.
Those that fought back did not last long or were tossed out as "dropped" (or they hid the fact that they were nice as they tried to figure out how to survive and what was going on? Some of them actually got some good assignments - thank God -- and were nice. Until of course, they were under someone who tried to force them out.)
Remember that? The newsletter with the name of the person and "dropped" next to it? How awful.
So, you either shut-up and hid
Were thrown out
left
or complied with zeal to the movement of the word -- the word of Weirwille....
I was in a branch after I graduated the corps. I had gotten this guy involved with TWI.
The branch leader was a pain in th butt corps zealot and wanted my new recruit to live with him -- "at the feet of the man of God for the area." The recruit came to me on the side and asked what to do. Well, I knew the "leader" needed someone to move in to get help financially and that the recruit would be used. Also he was deciding to go into this great business venture the branch leader wanted him to pull out of so he could be "more committed" to moving the word.
I told the recruit, if it were me I would NOT move in with him and I would go into the business. Don't let anyone talk you out of what you want to do or guilt you into something using "Pleasing God" as the carrot at the end of the string.
So, he did not move in, he did get involved and bought the business with his friends and is a millionaire today and a part owner in a huge chain restaurant.
Others:
So we are all in agreement - there were some
BAD corps. Not all corps but enough to make people notice "corps" was not always a good thing and sometimes and in some places it meant one bad leader after another. I just wish people could see the corps was the brainstorm of VPW and what you saw in the "hurtful" corps was due to training.
(that is not to say that some jerks went into the corps, but the training had a lot to do with the bad things people saw on the field).
I am not shocked that people think the corps sucked cause of all the stories I hear and lived through -- I am just shocked that people still refuse to lay it at Moggies feet where it belongs. How can anyone be a VPW loyalist and dislike the corps? The bad corps were a reflection of the bad men running the corps. IMO
Well, galen--if you can show me where I ever used the words "majority" and Way Corps together in any of my posts, I will gladly eat my words. I fear you are the one more given to hyperbole than myself....
Galen, here is your use of the word majority on this thread, including context:
"Dot Matrix-
“Galen: I am curious, and not being mean by asking this, but I am curious.”
Very well.
“You seem to defend the class and VPW with regularity but you bash the corps with the same frequency. I was just wondering how that can be?”
I mean to defend PFAL.
VPW has been judged by his actions, and presumably will be judged by someone ‘higher’ than I. I do not mean to condemn him, nor to exonerate him.
Corpse members were certainly a varied bunch. In my limited experience, the over-whelming majority(n.b.- emphasis added) of Corpse were mean nasty a$$holes.
However in my 18 years, I think that I did see a few who were not. I am sure that I have seen or been in the presence of at least a dozen, who did not have opportunity to open their mouths, and thus they were very nice and possibly even ‘loving’ if only from a distance.
I see no contradiction. I never met VPW, I can not hold such an opinion of him, negative or positive.
I have probably seen 100 corpse over the course of 18 years, between my wife and I, we can count how many we ever knew the names of on the fingers of 2 hands, of those 4 turned out to be nice. (I am hesitant to say ‘loving’). In limb meetings, at limb offices, etc, I have seen and dealt with many more green name tag wearers, who I never knew their names, but were less friendly than a scorpion in my shorts.
“Those of us who were decent people who loved God and went in the corps to serve God had to deal with the same ROTTEN corps you dealt with. I will grant you many of them were nasty, ego maniacs that caused much harm. But MANY if not most of the rotten corps were in the "inner - circle" or close to it (as they were sold out, just not brought into the "secrets" yet.)”
Okay, where were those decent loving corpse? I presume they were in Ohio. If I was doing a twig, and needed something, and went to Limb, the Limb Coord (LC) or whatever green-name-tag I dealt with would usually give me a detailed grilling about what I wore, what Twig I ran, Why I needed whatever, and How dare I think that I could run a twig in the absence of corpse."
***********************************************
Here is my use, with context:
"another quote by Galen: "Each different place that I was stationed or lived, I usually ran a Twig. It worked out such that breifly in '83 we were within a branch, and again in '95-'97. Though most of the we were not within any branch. Living here for a few years, then moving, over and over. We could usually find beleivers whereever we were and piece together a fellowship. But none of that had anything to do with Corpse. When we did need materials, was generally the only dealings that we had with them, usually on the Limb level.
My understanding has been that when sent out into the 'field' most of them were sent to limbs, and they remained within the local area around that limb office. So obviously most areas in the nation where I could possibly be stationed, there was on presence of them.
"Just consider that these people involved in such things were not representative of the masses."
Okay, but wasn't that 'them'?"
NO, you are mis-informed completely in the manner, pre-89, in which assignments were given. Most of the corps was sent whereever, and most NOT stuck at/around the limb. Most were twig/branch coordinators--the vast majority. I personally know hundreds that were. And, yes, I knew their names..."
never said anything about the majority being kind, gentle or sweet to their mamas...
After I left in 2000 (escaped). I starting attending the Word in Truth ministries. He delivered me in ways from doctrinal error by his teachings that came from his heart for truth to live on in those who wanted to believe. It was the most loving thing one can do.
It has occured to me, on thinking about this topic, that the "goodness" of way leaders had very little to do with "way corps training."
Very little of the way corps stuff we went through was "character building." But there were things about the program that were "character assaulting." It was extremely difficult to stay "true to one's self" through it all. And then those that did manage to keep the vision, of reaching out to people to help, got rewarded by getting forced out during the purge when loyalty to LCM was demanded.
Those that stayed for whatever reasons, ended up getting forced out eventually as well. Any "goodness" that existed, was in spite of the organization, certainly not because of it.
quote: Those that stayed for whatever reasons, ended up getting forced out eventually as well. Any "goodness" that existed, was in spite of the organization, certainly not because of it.
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WhiteDove
Yes Dot I think it is along those lines II Timothy 1:9 -the calling was not according to our works but according to God's purpose and grace.
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Al Poole
Dot... such kind words...
Dot and Ex10, great observations about peoples/twiggers expectations from "corps". Sometimes no matter what we did it was never enough.
So how long do you let these "wonderful believers" ride/skate/coast/....drain you of every ounce of vitality you have????? At some point a baby stands and walks on his own. Right?? Thus there WERE believers that were dealt with seemingly harshly. But the observer who thought that, probably hadn't had 5 phone calls in two weeks at 3am from this "wonderful believer" that just couldn't/wouldn't handle their own problems.
So... yeah, some people got screamed at... somebody tells me for three years they want to change but never does anything TO change... sorry I'M GONNA TELL EM THE TRUTH!!!
You know em... lesssss seeeeeee um... the woman that's been married 3 times... and she's considering her forth, and they've all been abusers... and the 4th intended is too... but she can't see what EVERYBODY else can so easily.
(Please don't take offense ladies, this one was just real easy to come up with spur of the moment... it applies to men as well.)
WD... VERY astute! LOTS of people want others to make the decision for them/tell them what to do.... thus releaving themselves of any responsibility for the outcome. How many times did wc do that (and have it thrown back in their face...) Because
a: they were on an ego trip and felt flattered because it fed their ego
b: they thought (only God knows why) they shouldbe able to answer all the questions AND really thought they were helping that person. "why certainly you should go corps, God called you to be corps".
No God didn't.You just think it looks fun but don't want to take the blame if you get there and hate it... leaves you an easy out in your own mind.
So in some ways wc were screwed either way. If you didn't have enough insight to determine who was who.... AND VERY FEW OF US DID, you resorted to "stock" treatment. You mimiced other "leaders" you liked/respected/thought were cool.... God help the poor soul if you mimiced a "bad" leader!!
I close with this thought...
The wc was like ANY group, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, United Way... It was PEOPLE... there were...The good, the bad, and the ugly!
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Catcup
Oh, yeah, I have to tell you about one particular couple who believe I am probably the harshest, most unfeeling Way Corps person on the face of the earth, because I refused to allow them to have a fellowship.
This couple in Northwest Indiana knew one of our fellowships in our area had grown so large that it had outgrown the livingroom of the fellowship coordinator and we were considering who was the best candidate to take the new fellowship.
We were considering one particular fellow who was a recent PFAL grad. Although he had only taken the class a month or so previously, he was quite mature and confident. And out of all the possible candidates, he was the only one who most closely met the criteria in I and II Timothy of what a leader ought to be.
I got a curious call from one of our fellowship coordinators that a particular woman was calling up all the FC's and actually lobbying for their support in her effort to be the new FC.
Then we got a call from this couple.... I should say, though, we actually got a call from the wife, who was the one making all the phone calls. She told me she wanted the fellowship, and felt she and her husband should have it, because she "had been in the Word much longer." She had been a PFAL and Intermediate class grad for oh, lets say at least 4 or 5 years, and her husband maybe a year or two less than that. But I wasn't going to base my decision on time spent "in the Word" alone.
When I told her that it was out of the question and I told her specifically why, she was irate and demanded a meeting. So we met. And from the books of I and II Timothy I illustrated plainly what disqualified them from leading a fellowship at that time.
While her husband sat silently throughout the meeting, his wife interrupted repeatedly and argued adamantly why she should be trusted with the lives of about 10-12 people, even after I showed her from I & II Timothy exactly why she was disqualified, and proved it with incidents of the pattern of her behavior over the last several years I had known her.
The woman was not satisfied with my explanation. After about a three hour meeting, she stormed out of my house. She called up every person in the branch and told them how wicked I was. She called up the Limb Coordinator and told him how mean and horrible I was and demanded he meet with her and make her the FC of this new group of 10-12 people.
The LC agreed to meet with her, but only with me present.
So, the LC takes the time out of his busy schedule to come up to Munster and meet with this woman and myself. She in the mean time has called up every person in the branch and defamed me and my husband for not allowing them to have the new fellowship, and lied about what we actually told her.
The LC patiently listened to her side of the story, which took about 2 hours to tell. I patiently listened while biting my lips while she lied through her teeth about what occurred in the previous meeting and discussions we had about why she was disqualified. I sat on my hands and clenched my jaw and kept my mouth shut while I listened to the most vile vitriolic venom pour from this womans mouth in lies about my husband and myself. Then when I was allowed to speak, she constantly interrupted me, but I proved again from the written Word of God exactly why this woman was disqualified.
The LC agreed.
This woman was incensed and caused such a disturbance among the entire branch by calling up every single person and defaming not only me and my husband, but the LC for not allowing her to be responsible for the spiritual lives of about a dozen people. She eventually caused such a disturbance, that the LC had to come down and do a special meeting to address problems that arose in the branch that this woman had caused because I wouldn't let her be a FC. He said to the branch that in all his years in The Way International, he had never heard such vicious false accusations against another person.
Eventually, yes, she had to be marked and avoided.
Why, you ask, should I consider giving a fellowship to what appeared to be a neophite compared to a woman who had been "in the Word" for 4-5 years? Four little words:
"Not given to wine..."
She was a rip roaring drunk. Over the several years that I had known this woman, she had called me up at various times in the middle of the night so drunk she was incoherent. And the next day, would not even remember she had called. And many other times in the middle of the day, the same issues would arise, time and again, despite repeated counseling. The woman was a true alcoholic, but refused to admit it, refused to moderate her drinking or her destructive behavior.
Many times I had counseled with her when she came to me with issues regarding her drinking and the way in which it complicated her marriage and life. Suffice it to say, I was not going to put the lives of 12 innocent individuals in the hands of an irresponsible person who had no control over her own life, whose personal life was a pit of iniquity.
And for that, I am sure in her mind, I am still one of those @$$hole Way Corps who blew into town with no regard for the "peons" and wanted to "lord it over God's people" and disregard the advice of "old timer" grads from the area who "knew it all."
So, yes, there are two sides to those coins...
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alfakat
Well, catcup--I am sure some might see you that way... but I believe that even those who I have been in disagreement with on this thread would see that life is a two-way street--not "all" are always the way the some have been perceived. TWI attracted it's share of jerks; some went WOW, some went in the corps and some stayed right where they were for 25 years. As Al said, the good, the bad and the ugly....
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Oakspear
This thread sure has taken an interesting turn. Thanks ex-Corps folks for broadening the picture a bit.
In my observation, there were several less-than-optimum behaviors and mindsets feeding off each other.
There are always people who want to be told what to do, who couldn't make a decision for themselves if their lives depended on it. To these kind of people a twig coordinator is just another person who they can look to for all the answers. Only they don't follow through, they don't follow your advice, but are there again the next week with the same or a similar problem. When you don't supply the answers that they like, they shop around.
Then a Way Corps grad shows up. All new and shiney and zealous for the Word. No matter what this individual Way Corps grad holds in their heart, the propaganda from HQ is that a special breed of cat is coming to town. Way Corps is showing up. Someone trained and committed and (the implication is) smarter than you, more committed than you, and crammed full of more bible than you'll ever know.
So naturally the always-have-a-problem folks swarm all over the new WC grad.
The other folks, who may have gotten along just fine, think that maybe they should get some counsel from this wise Way Corps grad. Maybe the WC grad starts believing his own press releases!
Most of my pre-1990 expewrience with Corps grads was pretty neutral: I didn't bother them and they didn't bother me. I saw good & bad and smart & stupid and loving & unloving in about the same ratios as the general population. Post-1990 was different.
Post-1990, even the seemingly nice folks just had to stick their nose in our affairs. We had to have meetings about setting goals, and "report back" on all manner of life's details. Nothing we did was too small to be scrutinized by our "leaders". I know that most of them were just following orders from above, but it's tough to see the good in someone whose doing surprise inspections or demanding schedules.
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Galen
I don’t recall ever going to a ‘C’ grad for advise or with a problem. I did on a few occasions experience people in my Twigs calling ‘C’ to tattle on me.
Catcup-
“And for that, I am sure in her mind, I am still one of those @$$hole Way Corps who blew into town with no regard for the "peons" and wanted to "lord it over God's people" and disregard the advice of "old timer" grads from the area who "knew it all." “
While this scenario never happened to me, it did happen to a friend of mine (Frank T.) in San Diego. Frank ran Twigs in his home, in English, Spanish and Tagolog. His Twigs routinely split and sometimes where used to ‘feed’ the other twigs in the surrounding area. One year in about 1990, Someone realized that 20 Twigs had all been split originally from his, so Frank was setup as a Branch Coord. Then a year later, someone realized that Frank was not ‘C’. So then they re-distributed the twigs, to other branches. Frank has always had lots of believers living in his house, usually while OJT-learning networking. They even split up his Twig and assigned each person living in his house to attend different twigs in separate Branches. They were forbidden to pray or BM together in their home, and no two of them could attend the same twig together. Frank stayed loyal for a long time. In about 1995, he was finally told that he was no longer allowed to attend any TWI fellowship. Now he is right back to multiple fellowships, in his home, in multiple languages, and anyone out of work gets job training. We get his weekly teachings, he is still HOT for the Word, though loving to everyone.
Oakspear-
“Post-1990, even the seemingly nice folks just had to stick their nose in our affairs. We had to have meetings about setting goals, and "report back" on all manner of life's details. Nothing we did was too small to be scrutinized by our "leaders". I know that most of them were just following orders from above, but it's tough to see the good in someone whose doing surprise inspections or demanding schedules.”
Yeah this hit us in 1997, while we were on a family trip, our home was searched and it was discovered that we had books written by Rev. Cummins. We refused to publicly burn them, so we were thrown out (third time).
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Galen
As I look through many of the previous posts on this thread, I see a common theme. Can anyone else see it? Perhaps it can be explained to Alfakat.
Diazbro-“ Once someone told me that they got $50 from their Limb guy. Hmmm. But listen to the story. The guy had been doing free mechanic work on the LC's car, had helped paint his house, was shuttling people with no cars back and forth to twigs, was giving 4 people a ride to the ROA okay. So presumably in a token of recognition of this guys work the LC wanted to acknowledge him.. BUT the $50 was not cash - it was going to be donated when the guy put his money in for the Advanced Class. So there never was a $50 gift - just a carrot on the stick to take another damn class.”
“And worse yet, some even took their frustrations out on those in the field , asserting their leadership positions to the avergage guy perhaps in reaction to the growing confusion and deception at HQ. I could see this happening.”
“So once HQ got wind of all this they sent down some "professionals" to tell us how we should really do it. It was horrible. I mean horrible. They killed all growth and twig attendance plummetted. These guys were such jerks and focused on things like the cleanliness of someone's car or the lack of attention to how the horn of plenty was displayed. I thought it was like a practical joke but it wasn't. Of course who did they blame for the slump ? US ! We were ripped up and down. I recall lots of people leaving and never returning. It was so sad. Now - Does this experience suggest that all corps people were jerks and horrible people ? As I've said before I don't think so. But the fact that something like I described could happen with the blessing of HQ suggests that they were auhtorized to behave in this fashion. They certainly weren't discouraged form behaving like control freak aholes. As I mentioned before - at times like this
someone would show up and try to buddy up with us all - make nice and try to brush over the badness that had just happened. It was so transparent and insulting.”
“My experince is that corps people did more to polarize branches and twigs and alienate people than any so called "seed boy" did. They were the ones who provoked the "get off the fence - you are either with us or against" mentality that broke up friendships and even marriages.”
Rascal-“ After a while I got pretty cynical about every leader who came along pretending to be my best buddy...wanting me to believe that they were vitally interested in my life ...wanting only the very best for me....blech”
“After a while it seemed like we were only a means to an end with our leadership...keep us built up.... *happy* so we would preform to standard...witnessing... classes...numbers were always the measuring stick and standard for excellence in any area I was in....seemed like we were only valuable as long as we were producing...”
Hope-“ No one who I know of that was a loving and caring leader in TWI 1 or 2 and stayed in through TWI 3 & 4 remained that way. No one. And I watched them change over the years, too. It wasn't a pretty sight.”
LuckyGril- “I think it mattered if you were a favorite of the "mean" ones or not. We were very favored & not put under a lot of scrutiny because, well, we towed the line. And we acted like them when the occasion presented itself. Make no mistake, if you messed up, these guys would crawl done your throat too...favorite or not.”
WW- “This is not to say every territory, branch or tc was so motivated (some were already trying to climb the ladder), but I think that's where most of the uncorrupted leaders were.”
“I think Galen just proved my point about wc and leadership. The ones who really wanted to help people stayed on the field and worked their little hearts out locally. The ones who wanted to be in charge climbed the ladder, and circled the Limb locales like vultures. Those are the ones Galen saw.”
“Others worked their way to Limb, and, I expect, other places, because they wanted to get to fancy-schmancy titles and perks. You didn't scheme to get to where you were sent.”
Ex- “From my experience as a branch coordinator, and then territory coordinator, it seems that these "leadership positions" were a real dividing point. . . . . Once a postion above territory coord got offered, the decision had to be made whether to "full time with the ministry" or not. Those who chose to go "full time" had to be pretty sold out to the organization, because now they were employees, usually and dependent on towing the company line for their bread and butter. The branch and territory coords were still "volunteers" and seemed to be more willing to speak up and be assertive about policies and proceedures, cause we were busting our buts doing everything the regular twiggies were doing and more. Once the waypay started coming in, things changed drastically. Catch my drift?”
“Once we realized this, we decided that we were NOT cut out to be "leaders," in the sense that the corporation demanded. So we opted out, and refused to take any more "corps assignments," that involved doing anything more than running a twig. It was the only HONEST thing we felt like we could do.”
Dot- “We both saw very nasty corps. Horrible empowered people.”
“THERE WERE CREEPS. Oh, my could we tell you stories about being in rez with them or under them on the field! I understand how you feel.”
“For the most part, we did not get to choose our assignments they were given to us. There were good and bad corps sprinkled all over. But many (not all) of the BETTER assignments went to those that sold out (not all).”
Kit- “Bxx Mxxxxxxxx and these other guys who trade their heart of flesh for a heart of stone are just nuts.”
Socks- “...yet I always had some Wise Elder on my a$$ telling me what a lousy job I was doing because I didn't do it "the right way" or according to the Holy Rules of Behavior of the Way.”
Radar- “I totally agree that lots of us were total SCREW UPS, total IDIOTS, total LOOSERS and totally devoid of spiritual judgement and or/spiritual concern for others. ON the other hand, there were PLENTY OF US that were just IDIOTS.”
Catcup- “Those who had the propensity to become asskissing corporate clones, did so fairly quickly, and played that game quite well.”
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WordWolf
Galen,
you could be going in any of a number of directions from there.
If you see a pattern, please pass it along. I may agree, I may not.
I get enough of the pedantic thing on certain other threads, and I know
you're capable of better, so please don't make a liar of me.
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Dot Matrix
Two sides of the coin:
I was out as a WOW and I was corps. I had a girl in my "family" who did not bathe - ever. She did not brush her teeth, she did not change her clothes and she smelled so bad I cannot even suggest how bad in print.
I really felt terribly over-matched about how to deal with it. I never knew anyone who refused to bathe. The other WOW's were complaining (rightfully so), as was the other family. She could not get a job for the obvious reasons.
So, here we are two weeks after the ROA and she is sleeping in the same clothes she wore EVERY day. I kept asking her "Are you okay?" Thinking something bad happened to force this behavior. "Are you going to wear that again?" "Do you need to use my shampoo?" I tried to be subtle. I thought once she gets comfortable she would bathe and change her clothes on her own without my having to talk about it, or insist upon it. It was awkward.
She did not.
So, we all got jobs except for her and began to bring in some money and some people to twig. I covered her bills with money I had in the bank. Then, I had the talk with her. She acted like she understood.
She changed her clothes but she did not bathe.
We spoke again. Then, she did get into the tub but did not brush her teeth or wash her hair.
I made up a chart and told her she had to check things off on the chart and hand it to me.
She had enough sense that when she had her "time of the month" to use proper things and throw them out in the trash... Why couldn't she bathe?
Some days she would hand me the chart and you could see she had not bathed. So, I told her we could not live with someone who refused to take a bath. It was a bad example and counter productive to why she was a WOW.
I asked her if she wanted to leave the field? Are you okay? Why won't you bathe?
She lied about it and continued to "miss things" on the chart such as "brush teeth"...
She still did not have a job and I used more of my money to pay her share, as the others did not earn enough to help cover her.
Checklist:
Wash hair
Brush teeth
Take a bath
Change underwear
Put on clean clothes
I told the LC and he said to "work with her".
So, I went into the bathroom with her and watched while she brushed her teeth and put actual suds on her stringy greasy hair...
Then, one day the LC takes her "away" for a couple days. Later, I find out she was pregnant. She was wrapping up "sanitary pads" and putting them in the trash to hide the fact.
The LC took her to have an abor*ion.
Guess who was a jerk? I was. The LC thought I was a jerk because I should have spiritually known she was pregnant AND the WOW thought I was a jerk because I watched her brush her teeth and wash her hair. (How dare I?)
There were two sides to the coin. In this case, I was the coin. One side LC thought I was a jerk and the other side WOW thought I was a jerk.
Yes, there were awful corps. There was nice corps. There were awful believers. There were nice believers. We were in a cult...
Galen in rereading your post it seems that we were a group of extremes. Extremely nice or extremely not nice and so forth. Extremely cool (played in a band) or extremely weird ( would not bathe). They put us together to "learn" something. Thing is a lot of us learned how to be unhappy and leave. We were suppose to be moving toward a balance... But they did not have that marked. People bounced back and forth from extremes. I am sure there are exceptions to this. But as we are all talking it brings back my experiences and there sure were a lot of people I considered unhealthy on both sides of the coin. As was I, for staying in a place where no matter what you did it was "not good enough" or it was "the wrong thing to do" to someone. It was a breeding ground for defeat.
Once in rez, a guy stood in front of a door just looking at it. I believe it went like this...
He was asked, "What cha doin'?"
He said. "I don't know if I am allowed to open it or not."
He was asked, "What?"
"I was asked to get something and I don't know if I can open the door. I don't want to do the wrong thing."
That was the corps. Everything was the "wrong thing" until you broke into a boot lickin', azz kissing, mean jerk who taught the "weirwiile" philosphies to people. The corps was about breaking people down - not building them up and restoring them to something better -- they broke you if they could, and left you that way.
Those that fought back did not last long or were tossed out as "dropped" (or they hid the fact that they were nice as they tried to figure out how to survive and what was going on? Some of them actually got some good assignments - thank God -- and were nice. Until of course, they were under someone who tried to force them out.)
Remember that? The newsletter with the name of the person and "dropped" next to it? How awful.
So, you either shut-up and hid
Were thrown out
left
or complied with zeal to the movement of the word -- the word of Weirwille....
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diazbro
In early Way days I found it to be attractive
as there was little pressure to do much except
enjoy fellowship and over time some might
get more invovlved while others, such as myself, might
maintain only a peripheral attachment to TWI. At that
time such a thing was possible
as the concept of making TWI your life and home had yet
to emerge in a big way. Besides I was busy and had
plans and goals and was happy to be in the process of acheiving them. Thats always a good feeling to have.
As some years passed some of my earlier friends
became significantly involved in TWI and they
started leaning into me to take PFAL.
In many ways I didn't feel that I had to because
thats basically what was being taught at twigs
and people were teaching out of their books and
I had read most of those but lots of people were
REALLY pushing it so I took it. I did enjoy it and it
seemed to have pleased my friends (not that that was
the reason I did it).
But then I noticed that the more I did in TWI the more
people wanted me to do. If they went WOW then they
wanted me to go WOW. And it took on a slightly darker
edge when I would decline to go to a family night or
to a branch function. But because I knew some of the leaders, my erratic attendance at ministry functions
was still tolerated.
But over time I saw fewer familiar faces and was
afforded fewer allowances. So at this point I started
to have run ins with corps types. My apparent resistance to "moving forward" in They Way lifestyle sort of irked
them. They couldn't understand it and over time this
became the source of arguements. It needs to be said
that in ALL cases it was the corps people who initiated
these conversations. I didn't go to them for advice or
counseling. But none of this stopped them from
discussing their ideas for my future.
And then I realized that much of the advice was
generic. The same advice I was getting was being given
to other people and it all led to getting people signed
up for more classes ,WOW, or entering the corps programs.
Little consideration was being given to the individual's
goals at least from my point of view.
I tried telling these guys that I was well on track
with my life but it didn't matter. Unless I did what
they wanted for me then it wasn't going to work out.
Now over time as I moved to other cities or the corps
in the area rotated I would meet some pretty cool people
and there would be like a reprieve for a while but it
would always happen again that some well meaning corps
grad would presume to lecture me on the "abundant
life" and how I was missing it by not following the same
path they had.
The funny thing is that at the times when I ran into
an old friends who were firmly established in TWI
leadership , it
gave me some form of temporary immunity and the eager
beavers would back off. One of them told me "I didn't
know that you knew him. I must have been wrong about you".
Funny huh ? But true.
Around 78 or 79 I remember talking to some believers
at like a family night. One of the guys there was
well known for being a ball breaker. I had heard
him teach and had him some basic conversations with
him all of which led me to believe that he was
exactly the type of leader that I detested.
Later he engaged me in this off-to-the-side
conversation and it was mindlblowing. His corps hat
was off and there was no one else around and he
started saying stuff like "Man if you don't stick
to your goals that would be bad. Don't listen to what
these people are telling you. You know what you got
so keep doing it. If you don't come to fellowships
then I don't care - just don't go away forever. But
if you don't have time for this scene then I would
completely understand".
Wild huh ? I never expected that but there
was one bit of corps advice that I did accept. So
I did attend some fellowships on occasion and pop in
on twigs when I was travelling but outside of that
I went forward with life. My biggest regret though
was that the corps guy who told me all
this had to do it off the record and on the side.
It would have been great if he could have talked
like that out in the open or at fellowship but I
got the strong sense that such straight talk was
contrary to his general mission of keep the household
running. I later came to understand that other people
loathed him which is a testament to how subjective
the corps experience can be.
So clearly I'm not going to say that all corps people
are bad but after reading my story you can see why
I don't have fond memories of many of these folks.
I endured lots of insults just to preserve my ties
with my friends and an organization that I once thought
to be pretty cool. But over time I lost lots of friends
to the way machine and its never ending demand for
loyalty to the body first and foremost. I'm sure that
my story is far from unique.
Of course none of us were immune from the group think
of TWI. I've said things to be people thinking
that what I was saying was the best thing to do when
later upon relfection I would become terribly embarrassed
because I knew I was just reperating what I had heard on
some tape or teaching. In my zeal to do good I overlooked
the practical considerations - like listening to people
and understanding where they were coming from before
dispensing canned advice that sounds good but has little
practical value. So I'm not off the hook either. though
I was never corps there were times when I used the leaders
as inspiration and dealt on people thinking that my rightheous anger was the best thing for them.
so no this isn't some judgement trip as much as it is
my document of what happened.
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Dot Matrix
Great post Daizbro
I was in a branch after I graduated the corps. I had gotten this guy involved with TWI.
The branch leader was a pain in th butt corps zealot and wanted my new recruit to live with him -- "at the feet of the man of God for the area." The recruit came to me on the side and asked what to do. Well, I knew the "leader" needed someone to move in to get help financially and that the recruit would be used. Also he was deciding to go into this great business venture the branch leader wanted him to pull out of so he could be "more committed" to moving the word.
I told the recruit, if it were me I would NOT move in with him and I would go into the business. Don't let anyone talk you out of what you want to do or guilt you into something using "Pleasing God" as the carrot at the end of the string.
So, he did not move in, he did get involved and bought the business with his friends and is a millionaire today and a part owner in a huge chain restaurant.
Others:
So we are all in agreement - there were some
BAD corps. Not all corps but enough to make people notice "corps" was not always a good thing and sometimes and in some places it meant one bad leader after another. I just wish people could see the corps was the brainstorm of VPW and what you saw in the "hurtful" corps was due to training.
(that is not to say that some jerks went into the corps, but the training had a lot to do with the bad things people saw on the field).
I am not shocked that people think the corps sucked cause of all the stories I hear and lived through -- I am just shocked that people still refuse to lay it at Moggies feet where it belongs. How can anyone be a VPW loyalist and dislike the corps? The bad corps were a reflection of the bad men running the corps. IMO
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alfakat
Well, galen--if you can show me where I ever used the words "majority" and Way Corps together in any of my posts, I will gladly eat my words. I fear you are the one more given to hyperbole than myself....
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ex10
Galen
PFAL didn't have all the answers. If it did, all us corps bots could've solved the world's problems.
As diazbro has illustrated, the answer to everything in life, was NOT getting more deeply involved in PFAL, and what it bred.
"The Teacher" didn't know it all. Geeze, the corps was PFAL on steroids. It didn't work, and never will.
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alfakat
Galen, here is your use of the word majority on this thread, including context:
"Dot Matrix-
“Galen: I am curious, and not being mean by asking this, but I am curious.”
Very well.
“You seem to defend the class and VPW with regularity but you bash the corps with the same frequency. I was just wondering how that can be?”
I mean to defend PFAL.
VPW has been judged by his actions, and presumably will be judged by someone ‘higher’ than I. I do not mean to condemn him, nor to exonerate him.
Corpse members were certainly a varied bunch. In my limited experience, the over-whelming majority(n.b.- emphasis added) of Corpse were mean nasty a$$holes.
However in my 18 years, I think that I did see a few who were not. I am sure that I have seen or been in the presence of at least a dozen, who did not have opportunity to open their mouths, and thus they were very nice and possibly even ‘loving’ if only from a distance.
I see no contradiction. I never met VPW, I can not hold such an opinion of him, negative or positive.
I have probably seen 100 corpse over the course of 18 years, between my wife and I, we can count how many we ever knew the names of on the fingers of 2 hands, of those 4 turned out to be nice. (I am hesitant to say ‘loving’). In limb meetings, at limb offices, etc, I have seen and dealt with many more green name tag wearers, who I never knew their names, but were less friendly than a scorpion in my shorts.
“Those of us who were decent people who loved God and went in the corps to serve God had to deal with the same ROTTEN corps you dealt with. I will grant you many of them were nasty, ego maniacs that caused much harm. But MANY if not most of the rotten corps were in the "inner - circle" or close to it (as they were sold out, just not brought into the "secrets" yet.)”
Okay, where were those decent loving corpse? I presume they were in Ohio. If I was doing a twig, and needed something, and went to Limb, the Limb Coord (LC) or whatever green-name-tag I dealt with would usually give me a detailed grilling about what I wore, what Twig I ran, Why I needed whatever, and How dare I think that I could run a twig in the absence of corpse."
***********************************************
Here is my use, with context:
"another quote by Galen: "Each different place that I was stationed or lived, I usually ran a Twig. It worked out such that breifly in '83 we were within a branch, and again in '95-'97. Though most of the we were not within any branch. Living here for a few years, then moving, over and over. We could usually find beleivers whereever we were and piece together a fellowship. But none of that had anything to do with Corpse. When we did need materials, was generally the only dealings that we had with them, usually on the Limb level.
My understanding has been that when sent out into the 'field' most of them were sent to limbs, and they remained within the local area around that limb office. So obviously most areas in the nation where I could possibly be stationed, there was on presence of them.
"Just consider that these people involved in such things were not representative of the masses."
Okay, but wasn't that 'them'?"
NO, you are mis-informed completely in the manner, pre-89, in which assignments were given. Most of the corps was sent whereever, and most NOT stuck at/around the limb. Most were twig/branch coordinators--the vast majority. I personally know hundreds that were. And, yes, I knew their names..."
never said anything about the majority being kind, gentle or sweet to their mamas...
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likeaneagle
Joe Guorini
After I left in 2000 (escaped). I starting attending the Word in Truth ministries. He delivered me in ways from doctrinal error by his teachings that came from his heart for truth to live on in those who wanted to believe. It was the most loving thing one can do.
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ex10
It has occured to me, on thinking about this topic, that the "goodness" of way leaders had very little to do with "way corps training."
Very little of the way corps stuff we went through was "character building." But there were things about the program that were "character assaulting." It was extremely difficult to stay "true to one's self" through it all. And then those that did manage to keep the vision, of reaching out to people to help, got rewarded by getting forced out during the purge when loyalty to LCM was demanded.
Those that stayed for whatever reasons, ended up getting forced out eventually as well. Any "goodness" that existed, was in spite of the organization, certainly not because of it.
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Dot Matrix
Well said!
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