It's obvious you never appreciated TWI as I did, and it didn't benefit you like it did me and thousands of others.
Thousands of others? Come up with those thousands, OM. Do what you say none of us can do...prove it.
Also, prove the benefits you received from twi. From your posts here, the only "benefit" you received was how to raise the state of denial to an obscene level.
That wasn`t the letter we recieved on the field pirate...(notice this was addressed to staff)
I think that is why the responses to lcm`s demads were different...by the time we recieved our version on the field......he was backing us in the corner...no room to wiggle...no other responce than loyalty to lcm was acceptable.
quote:But stop ascribing these pure motives to LCM when everything he did at the time and afterward indicates his motives were self-glorifying, not to the glory of God.
Raf, the way I see it, the 1989 letter does give glory to God and ascribes motives that glorify God. Craig wanted to continue moving the Word, and What the Hay described this well in an earlier post. Here's a quote from the letter:
quote:Let me add that the Board of Trustees plans to continue supporting the programs and activities that Dr. Wierwille began, some of which are: Sunday night teachings from International Headquarters with available audio and video tape; the church in the home according to the Book of Acts; the Power for Abundant Living class series; Way Family Camps; Way Corps; Word Over The World Ambassadors; The Way College Biblical Studies program; The University of Life; The Way Magazine and other publications; Bookstore; various seminars on the field and at our Root locations; the Rock of Ages; as well as anything else we can do, by God's grace, to lovingly help meet the expressed godly desires of those choosing to fellowship within the Way Ministry.
Now if you think TWI was evil from the start, nothing but a stupid cult, I guess you think the above is stupid, ungodly and self-serving. It's your choice how to look at it.
In pirate's link, click on the words "Next Page." THAT's the letter we're all referring to.
Oldiesman,
Taken strictly at face value, one could see how you could conclude that the letter contained godly motivations. But it's your decision to take the words of LCM in that letter at face value. Everything he did subsequent to that letter speaks more loudly than the letter itself. Immediately subsequent to that letter he was the spiritual head of the ministry. DURING the time of that letter, the people supporting him said things like "I'm going to stand with the ministry that taught me God's Word" (as opposed to standing on God's Word, period). They said things like "God chose VPW and VPW chose LCAM by revelation, so if VPW was wrong to choose LCM, then God is stupid." This is what they were saying AT THE TIME. This wasn't about drawing a spiritual line in the sand. It was about drawing a corporal one.
Of COURSE!!! they're going to claim to be offering the godly choice. And the thing you're saying that's right is that the other side was NOT necessarily being more godly (though some on the other side were). But that doesn't make Craig's motives godly, no matter what the letter says. No matter what the letter says, he was still forcing a choice between men. No matter what the letter says, it was still about control of the corporation, not about moving God's Word more efficiently. He obviously convinced himself that the control of the corporation WOULD move the Word of God more efficiently, but one would only need to look at what he did afterward to establish that this letter did not have God's glory as its motivation.
I know this was a difficult decision for everyone, but that letter was not godly. The people who heeded it may have wanted to honor God, but their decision did nothing more than embolden a tyrant. This is not to say that those people are to blame for what happened. It is well established that the other side was not necessarily any less carnal. I'm simply saying that those who stayed got snookered by LCM, just as many who left got snookered by CCG and their local leadership.
Just look at what happened afterward: most of those who left are glad they did. Most of those who stayed are sorry they did. That doesn't tell you something about the true motives of LCM?
quote:Let me add that the Board of Trustees plans to continue supporting the programs and activities that Dr. Wierwille began, some of which are: Sunday night teachings from International Headquarters with available audio and video tape; the church in the home according to the Book of Acts; the Power for Abundant Living class series; Way Family Camps; Way Corps; Word Over The World Ambassadors; The Way College Biblical Studies program; The University of Life; The Way Magazine and other publications; Bookstore; various seminars on the field and at our Root locations; the Rock of Ages; as well as anything else we can do, by God's grace, to lovingly help meet the expressed godly desires of those choosing to fellowship within the Way Ministry.
Now if you think TWI was evil from the start, nothing but a stupid cult, I guess you think the above is stupid, ungodly and self-serving. It's your choice how to look at it.
Yep, we can now see how of those things mentioned are still going on now... -->
quote:Thousands of others? Come up with those thousands, OM. Do what you say none of us can do...prove it. ... Also, prove the benefits you received from twi. ...
Coolwaters, I make my assessment that there are thousands of folks who don't post on the internet, who are appreciative of their involvement in TWI and what they learned and experienced. Just look at all the folks in CES, CFF, other groups, who acknowledge many TWI teachings and concepts. I personally know lots of folks who appreciate TWI and their experience, who never post. There are folks who are even still involved who've experienced benefits, even now.
As far as the lasting benefits I received; learning about Jesus as my enduring Lord and Saviour; Christ in You, the Hope of Glory; salvation by grace; speaking in tongues; sonship rights; dead not alive now; Jesus is not God; believing the bible is a book that makes some sense; just to name a few.
well, I guess there is an old rocknroll song that applys--"My intentions were good; please don't let me be mis-understood!"
Nice intentions--but was lcm really changed?? had he repented of adultery?? not if his taped conversation with the limb guy of SC in the same time period is true... lcm says it is OK with God and that's what ole viccers taught him.
Raf, the way I see it, the 1989 letter does give glory to God and ascribes motives that glorify God. Craig wanted to continue moving the Word, and What the Hay described this well in an earlier post. Here's a quote from the letter:
quote:Let me add that the Board of Trustees plans to continue supporting the programs and activities that Dr. Wierwille began, some of which are: Sunday night teachings from International Headquarters with available audio and video tape; the church in the home according to the Book of Acts; the Power for Abundant Living class series; Way Family Camps; Way Corps; Word Over The World Ambassadors; The Way College Biblical Studies program; The University of Life; The Way Magazine and other publications; Bookstore; various seminars on the field and at our Root locations; the Rock of Ages; as well as anything else we can do, by God's grace, to lovingly help meet the expressed godly desires of those choosing to fellowship within the Way Ministry.
Now if you think TWI was evil from the start, nothing but a stupid cult, I guess you think the above is stupid, ungodly and self-serving. It's your choice how to look at it.
For too many years I looked at it all as "godly". Figured there was something wrong with me.
Then it began to dawn on me that the whole structure of twi...the "way tree"...the classes...the mlm structure...the unending seminars, branch and limb meetings...the unending publications from books and records to pamphlets, videos and study programs...the whole structure was designed to create a closed system...
A system in which one's exposure to anything besides what the "leader" wanted one exposed to did not exist because if it did, one would hear about it and one's life would be made a living hell.
Coolwaters, I make my assessment that there are thousands of folks who don't post on the internet, who are appreciative of their involvement in TWI and what they learned and experienced. Just look at all the folks in CES, CFF, other groups, who acknowledge many TWI teachings and concepts.
Touche, OM, touche!
I tend to forget about the offshoots. Sigh. :(-->
quote:As far as the lasting benefits I received; learning about Jesus as my enduring Lord and Saviour; Christ in You, the Hope of Glory; salvation by grace; speaking in tongues; sonship rights; dead not alive now; Jesus is not God; believing the bible is a book that makes some sense; just to name a few.
You could have gotten these things anywhere else...and you would have if you were looking for them.
But those are not tangible benefits. How did being involved in twi benefit you in, say, your family life? Or your business life? Or in your interpersonal relationships? Or your educational life? Or, now that we're all beginning to get there, your preparation for old age?
quote:You could have gotten these things anywhere else...and you would have if you were looking for them.
The godly teachings were available elsewhere, but not where I was at the time, in my location nor my heart and mind. TWI was there to meet that need, and met those needs. My mother was in TWI a year before I was, which had a big effect on my involvement. Would I have learned these things anyway? I can't answer that, I don't know. But the fact remains, I DID learned them in TWI. Also, I didn't think that the idea that salvation by grace, and speaking in tongues, along with SIT and prophecy in a fellowship, were all that rampant in the early seventies...and certainly not from the Roman Catholic church where I came from.
quote: But those are not tangible benefits.
I beg to differ. The benefits may not be materialistic or carnal, but they certainly are tangible.
quote: How did being involved in twi benefit you in, say, your family life? Or your business life? Or in your interpersonal relationships? Or your educational life? Or, now that we're all beginning to get there, your preparation for old age?
It improved my family life, since all of us were involved in TWI. We got along and were likeminded, whereas before we weren't. It developed more harmony in the home. Can't say too much about business life. With interpersonal relationships, on certain levels it helped, being able to separate truth from error, with my spiritual halitosis detector. As far as helping me in my old age, as I get old, its an enduring comfort to have important biblical truths and concepts to believe in, and know are true. That's the legacy TWI left me and thousands of others, despite all its faults and failures.
Well, OM, you win. You got something out of twi that thousands didn't.
I guess I'm just a dumb b*tch that couldn't pull water from a well...because I'd blame the hole in the bucket or refuse to drink it after I found out that there were dead, rabies infested rats floating around in the water.
I gotta tell ya, though...
I know a man just like you. He got of twi with his wife and children intact. He says, "I never left twi...twi left me." He has his own church. He has a thriving business. He's gone on to get his doctorate degree in theology. He's a well-respected member of his community. His two oldest children are award-winning college kids. His wife walks around saying, "I can honestly say I'm the happiest woman alive." He has set aside for their old age. They stick to the "pure" twi doctrines. They are very, very happy.
I just can't figure out why his wife and children (all 4 of them) struggle with anorexia. Or why he spits just like lcm when he gets mad at people who disagree with him. Or why he has to rent out his church building to other congregations that are starting up because nobody but extwi people go to his church...and only 2 families abs to his church...his and the family of the other board members. Or why the new congregations grow out of the space in his church within a year while his church loses attendees every year.
I dunno. Maybe anorexia, slinging spit wads in fits of rage, and never "moving the word" beyond your board of directors is living the more than abundant life.
After all, that's worked for twi all of these years.
You all may think I'm nuts for saying so - but that letter (the one in Pirate's post - addressed to the staffers, etc.) is the only one I ever received. Maybe because I was in Florida and everything seemed to be hunky-dory-dory here is the reason I never received anything else after that.
I don't know why LCM felt it was necessary to send a letter addressed to specific people out to everyone. It is my opinion that he really was asking everyone in the Corps to make a choice - not just those he addressed. IMO, he should have sent that letter out TO ALL THE WAY CORPS - it would have been the honest thing to do at the time. Instead, he baited everyone who wasn't staff or clergy to give him an answer. I think it was pretty sneaky.
Yes - this is the letter all the Corps received. See the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. I wondered why he was sending that letter to me since I wasn't a staffer or clergy. Because it went to all the Corps (which it did), it should have been addressedto all the Corps. (Sorry, that wasn't clear now that I'm reading it again).
Someone else mentioned there was another letter after this one to all the Corps as well. I don't remember it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen - I just don't remember it. Tt-t-t-that's all folks....
quote:It's obvious you never appreciated TWI as I did, and it didn't benefit you like it did me and thousands of others.
Oh really now. That's obvious - eh?
Oldies, I most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. I dedicated 2 years of my life as a WOW Ambassador, giving up a carreer to do so. I stood faithfully with TWI for about 7 years, it being the central thing in my life. I got great benefits from my time in TWI.
However, when I saw the direction it was taking and realized the coruption at the top, for whatever reason, luck, intution, etc, I had sense enough to get out.
You are very presumptive to suggest that I did not appreciate TWI at the time I was in, or that I perceive no benefit.
But unlike you, I have the balls to to look beyond my own experiences (Gee, I got blessed - it must be good ...) and consider the experiences of others and the facts of what really went on in TWI. You are like the person VPW talked about that gets a good feeling on a psychiatrists couch.
You're thinking in black and white again. You cannot seem to fathom the notion that TWI was corrupt early on so you deny it and disregard the testimony of many eye witnesses.
You can't seem to imagine how someone can call the TWI that you loved and supported "evil" what at the same understand they also reaped some beebefit from it, so you make eroneous presumtions like above.
But you are right on one thing, I appreciated TWI, but certainly not like you did. I did not appreciate it enough to call the ungodly actions of a power monger "love", or to justify ungodly terror as "cleaning up the household".
quote:Someone else mentioned there was another letter after this one to all the Corps as well. I don't remember it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen - I just don't remember it. Tt-t-t-that's all folks....
Yeah that was me. It was a letter of April or May or June of 1989. A companion to the March letter. I thought I made a copy of it years ago and had it somewhere but I don't know.
Edited by Guest
quote:Oldies, I most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. I dedicated 2 years of my life as a WOW Ambassador, giving up a carreer to do so. I stood faithfully with TWI for about 7 years, it being the central thing in my life. I got great benefits from my time in TWI.
Goey, WOW, thanks for saying some nice things about TWI. And I as well, most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. It's nice to hear we most likely shared that ultimate experience in TWI.
Hallelujah! After days of searching and digging, cutting through the piles of TWI-related papers, I found a copy of Craig's "companion" letter to his March, 1989 Loyalty Letter. This letter is dated April 14, 1989 and is addressed "Dear Staff Believer". It goes further why Craig made the decision.
I sent a PDF to PAW and asked him to post it. Comments will follow...
quote:As I was thinking further regarding this whole situation, there were some other thoughts that jelled in my heart, and I thought I would share them with you.
The concept of a leader's expecting loyalty from the people he is called to serve the Word to and work with as fellow laborers in moving God's Word is not a new one. Some of the people I have received responses from act as if they have never heard of such a concept as my asking for this kind of commitment to be made. They act incredulous that I would even bring it up; I am surprised at their response. Of course, many have used the word "carnal" to back up their logic; but, as I mentioned in the previous letter, this is not the situation in that category. It certainly could be a carnal action to dedicate oneself to serve with somebody, but that is determined by the mind-set and the attitude involved.
As you well know, God is always first; but there are also other commitments that have to be made in life if we are going to enjoy the benefits of working together. For instance, commitment in marriage is certainly required; yet that doesn't mean you put your spouse above God. Commitment in raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord is required, but that doesn't mean you put them above God. There is a commitment in secular employment to be honest and do your best to serve your employer, but that doesn't mean your employer has to be put before God.
Well, the same is true in commitment spiritually to moving the Word of God with leadership in the Church of the Body. This is very godly and very necessary, which is obvious when looking at God's Word. It certainly isn't new for a leader to request and expect that kind of loyalty to his life and decisions in the light of God's Word.
There are numerous examples in God's Word, like Moses when he drew the line with the children of Israel and challenged them to either stand with him or stand with the unbelievers who were dividing the camp. God challenged the children is Israel to stand with Joshua and they had stood with Moses, after Moses's death. Joshua had to challenge the people later on to stand with him on God's Word or go another route. Elijah requested the same when he challenged the prophets of Baal in front of all the people. Obviously, Jesus Christ demanded this loyalty time after time from his disciples and apostles and consistently confronted them. Of course, the great Apostle Paul expected this, as is noted throughout the Church Epistles, when he would point out by name those who were fellow laborers with him and a comfort to him, and he at times pointed out those who were not. This really crescendoes in I and II Timothy when by name he points out those who have stood with him and those who stood against him.
It is not just a case of walking with God only and ignoring everyone else. In the Body of Christ, you have great sections of scripture like Romans 13 that show how the Church is to function with the ministries. Obviously again, this does not mean to elevate any leader above God; but within the commitment to God first, there are other commitments that are expected and need to be made if we are going to move the Word to the full extent that God expects us to.
Does expecting and requiring this kind of loyalty make Moses carnal? Elijah? Joshua? Paul? Jesus Christ? Absolutely not. The carnality is determined by the mind-set and the heart involved in those who are making the decision.
I expect godly, loving, honest obedience and support according to God's Word and nothing beyond that.
This is not pushing anyone to carnality, but indeed doing something that Dr. Wierwille himself did on a number of occasions. I remember several times in which he challenged the Corps to say whether they were going to follow and stand with us in Corps leadership, or else just to leave. I was involved with him several times when he did it with 3 x 5 cards. Was that carnal? Certainly not. It was very necessary. How can anyone be flabbergasted that I would have the audacity to ask them to make these statements? It's beyond me.
...
It also occurred to me after those letters went out that in actuality, all I was asking for was a reaffirmation of the commitment that people supposedly made at my installation and inauguration in October of 1982. Remember the charge to the believers? I know many of you did because you even reminded me of that when you wrote to me. So again, although many of our brethren consider it way out of bounds for me to ask for this kind of affirmation, it really is only a re-affirmation of supposedly what they committed themselves to in October of 1982, and I believe I am well within God's Word and within logic and reason in life to ask for and expect this kind of commitment to be made of our employees and of those we back up and support in moving God's Word.
Thanks for posting this, oldiesman. I can certainly see why people decided to stay, although I disagreed with that decision at the time and, frankly, I believe I am way better off for it.
quote:Does expecting and requiring this kind of loyalty make Moses carnal? Elijah? Joshua? Paul? Jesus Christ? Absolutely not. The carnality is determined by the mind-set and the heart involved in those who are making the decision.
I expect godly, loving, honest obedience and support according to God's Word and nothing beyond that.
He left out that the carnality is also in the mindset and the heart of those making the request.
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CoolWaters
Thousands of others? Come up with those thousands, OM. Do what you say none of us can do...prove it.
Also, prove the benefits you received from twi. From your posts here, the only "benefit" you received was how to raise the state of denial to an obscene level.
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Pirate1974
Is this the letter you're talking about?
Martindale's Demand for Loyalty
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excathedra
i think it was longer than that
;)-->
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rascal
That wasn`t the letter we recieved on the field pirate...(notice this was addressed to staff)
I think that is why the responses to lcm`s demads were different...by the time we recieved our version on the field......he was backing us in the corner...no room to wiggle...no other responce than loyalty to lcm was acceptable.
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oldiesman
Raf, the way I see it, the 1989 letter does give glory to God and ascribes motives that glorify God. Craig wanted to continue moving the Word, and What the Hay described this well in an earlier post. Here's a quote from the letter:
Now if you think TWI was evil from the start, nothing but a stupid cult, I guess you think the above is stupid, ungodly and self-serving. It's your choice how to look at it.
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Raf
Folks,
In pirate's link, click on the words "Next Page." THAT's the letter we're all referring to.
Oldiesman,
Taken strictly at face value, one could see how you could conclude that the letter contained godly motivations. But it's your decision to take the words of LCM in that letter at face value. Everything he did subsequent to that letter speaks more loudly than the letter itself. Immediately subsequent to that letter he was the spiritual head of the ministry. DURING the time of that letter, the people supporting him said things like "I'm going to stand with the ministry that taught me God's Word" (as opposed to standing on God's Word, period). They said things like "God chose VPW and VPW chose LCAM by revelation, so if VPW was wrong to choose LCM, then God is stupid." This is what they were saying AT THE TIME. This wasn't about drawing a spiritual line in the sand. It was about drawing a corporal one.
Of COURSE!!! they're going to claim to be offering the godly choice. And the thing you're saying that's right is that the other side was NOT necessarily being more godly (though some on the other side were). But that doesn't make Craig's motives godly, no matter what the letter says. No matter what the letter says, he was still forcing a choice between men. No matter what the letter says, it was still about control of the corporation, not about moving God's Word more efficiently. He obviously convinced himself that the control of the corporation WOULD move the Word of God more efficiently, but one would only need to look at what he did afterward to establish that this letter did not have God's glory as its motivation.
I know this was a difficult decision for everyone, but that letter was not godly. The people who heeded it may have wanted to honor God, but their decision did nothing more than embolden a tyrant. This is not to say that those people are to blame for what happened. It is well established that the other side was not necessarily any less carnal. I'm simply saying that those who stayed got snookered by LCM, just as many who left got snookered by CCG and their local leadership.
Just look at what happened afterward: most of those who left are glad they did. Most of those who stayed are sorry they did. That doesn't tell you something about the true motives of LCM?
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Zshot
Yep, we can now see how of those things mentioned are still going on now...
--> 
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oldiesman
Coolwaters, I make my assessment that there are thousands of folks who don't post on the internet, who are appreciative of their involvement in TWI and what they learned and experienced. Just look at all the folks in CES, CFF, other groups, who acknowledge many TWI teachings and concepts. I personally know lots of folks who appreciate TWI and their experience, who never post. There are folks who are even still involved who've experienced benefits, even now.
As far as the lasting benefits I received; learning about Jesus as my enduring Lord and Saviour; Christ in You, the Hope of Glory; salvation by grace; speaking in tongues; sonship rights; dead not alive now; Jesus is not God; believing the bible is a book that makes some sense; just to name a few.
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alfakat
well, I guess there is an old rocknroll song that applys--"My intentions were good; please don't let me be mis-understood!"
Nice intentions--but was lcm really changed?? had he repented of adultery?? not if his taped conversation with the limb guy of SC in the same time period is true... lcm says it is OK with God and that's what ole viccers taught him.
Real FREAKING Godly allright!!!!
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CoolWaters
For too many years I looked at it all as "godly". Figured there was something wrong with me.
Then it began to dawn on me that the whole structure of twi...the "way tree"...the classes...the mlm structure...the unending seminars, branch and limb meetings...the unending publications from books and records to pamphlets, videos and study programs...the whole structure was designed to create a closed system...
A system in which one's exposure to anything besides what the "leader" wanted one exposed to did not exist because if it did, one would hear about it and one's life would be made a living hell.
That's a cult.
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CoolWaters
Touche, OM, touche!
I tend to forget about the offshoots. Sigh.
:(-->
You could have gotten these things anywhere else...and you would have if you were looking for them.
But those are not tangible benefits. How did being involved in twi benefit you in, say, your family life? Or your business life? Or in your interpersonal relationships? Or your educational life? Or, now that we're all beginning to get there, your preparation for old age?
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oldiesman
The godly teachings were available elsewhere, but not where I was at the time, in my location nor my heart and mind. TWI was there to meet that need, and met those needs. My mother was in TWI a year before I was, which had a big effect on my involvement. Would I have learned these things anyway? I can't answer that, I don't know. But the fact remains, I DID learned them in TWI. Also, I didn't think that the idea that salvation by grace, and speaking in tongues, along with SIT and prophecy in a fellowship, were all that rampant in the early seventies...and certainly not from the Roman Catholic church where I came from.
I beg to differ. The benefits may not be materialistic or carnal, but they certainly are tangible.
It improved my family life, since all of us were involved in TWI. We got along and were likeminded, whereas before we weren't. It developed more harmony in the home. Can't say too much about business life. With interpersonal relationships, on certain levels it helped, being able to separate truth from error, with my spiritual halitosis detector. As far as helping me in my old age, as I get old, its an enduring comfort to have important biblical truths and concepts to believe in, and know are true. That's the legacy TWI left me and thousands of others, despite all its faults and failures.
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Steve!
With you it's always "I, I, I". You always disregard everyone else's input and experiences. You always treat everyone else's experiences as invalid.
By the way, if someone gives me a car, that is a tangible benefit - I can see it, I can touch it.
If someone gives me a good feeling, that is an INtangible benefit - a benefit nonetheless, but it is INtangible.
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CoolWaters
Well, OM, you win. You got something out of twi that thousands didn't.
I guess I'm just a dumb b*tch that couldn't pull water from a well...because I'd blame the hole in the bucket or refuse to drink it after I found out that there were dead, rabies infested rats floating around in the water.
I gotta tell ya, though...
I know a man just like you. He got of twi with his wife and children intact. He says, "I never left twi...twi left me." He has his own church. He has a thriving business. He's gone on to get his doctorate degree in theology. He's a well-respected member of his community. His two oldest children are award-winning college kids. His wife walks around saying, "I can honestly say I'm the happiest woman alive." He has set aside for their old age. They stick to the "pure" twi doctrines. They are very, very happy.
I just can't figure out why his wife and children (all 4 of them) struggle with anorexia. Or why he spits just like lcm when he gets mad at people who disagree with him. Or why he has to rent out his church building to other congregations that are starting up because nobody but extwi people go to his church...and only 2 families abs to his church...his and the family of the other board members. Or why the new congregations grow out of the space in his church within a year while his church loses attendees every year.
I dunno. Maybe anorexia, slinging spit wads in fits of rage, and never "moving the word" beyond your board of directors is living the more than abundant life.
After all, that's worked for twi all of these years.
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Hope R.
You all may think I'm nuts for saying so - but that letter (the one in Pirate's post - addressed to the staffers, etc.) is the only one I ever received. Maybe because I was in Florida and everything seemed to be hunky-dory-dory here is the reason I never received anything else after that.
I don't know why LCM felt it was necessary to send a letter addressed to specific people out to everyone. It is my opinion that he really was asking everyone in the Corps to make a choice - not just those he addressed. IMO, he should have sent that letter out TO ALL THE WAY CORPS - it would have been the honest thing to do at the time. Instead, he baited everyone who wasn't staff or clergy to give him an answer. I think it was pretty sneaky.
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oldiesman
Hope, I don't quite get what you're saying. Didn't he send that letter out to all the Corps? I thought we agreed on that.
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Hope R.
Yes - this is the letter all the Corps received. See the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. I wondered why he was sending that letter to me since I wasn't a staffer or clergy. Because it went to all the Corps (which it did), it should have been addressed to all the Corps. (Sorry, that wasn't clear now that I'm reading it again).
Someone else mentioned there was another letter after this one to all the Corps as well. I don't remember it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen - I just don't remember it. Tt-t-t-that's all folks....
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Goey
Oldies,
Oh really now. That's obvious - eh?
Oldies, I most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. I dedicated 2 years of my life as a WOW Ambassador, giving up a carreer to do so. I stood faithfully with TWI for about 7 years, it being the central thing in my life. I got great benefits from my time in TWI.
However, when I saw the direction it was taking and realized the coruption at the top, for whatever reason, luck, intution, etc, I had sense enough to get out.
You are very presumptive to suggest that I did not appreciate TWI at the time I was in, or that I perceive no benefit.
But unlike you, I have the balls to to look beyond my own experiences (Gee, I got blessed - it must be good ...) and consider the experiences of others and the facts of what really went on in TWI. You are like the person VPW talked about that gets a good feeling on a psychiatrists couch.
You're thinking in black and white again. You cannot seem to fathom the notion that TWI was corrupt early on so you deny it and disregard the testimony of many eye witnesses.
You can't seem to imagine how someone can call the TWI that you loved and supported "evil" what at the same understand they also reaped some beebefit from it, so you make eroneous presumtions like above.
But you are right on one thing, I appreciated TWI, but certainly not like you did. I did not appreciate it enough to call the ungodly actions of a power monger "love", or to justify ungodly terror as "cleaning up the household".
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oldiesman
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oldiesman
Goey, WOW, thanks for saying some nice things about TWI. And I as well, most likely got saved as a result of folks in TWI. It's nice to hear we most likely shared that ultimate experience in TWI.
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oldiesman
Hallelujah! After days of searching and digging, cutting through the piles of TWI-related papers, I found a copy of Craig's "companion" letter to his March, 1989 Loyalty Letter. This letter is dated April 14, 1989 and is addressed "Dear Staff Believer". It goes further why Craig made the decision.
I sent a PDF to PAW and asked him to post it. Comments will follow...
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Raf
Coolness. Can't wait to see it.
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oldiesman
Excerpted from
Craig's Companion Loyalty Letter II
April 14, 1989
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Raf
Thanks for posting this, oldiesman. I can certainly see why people decided to stay, although I disagreed with that decision at the time and, frankly, I believe I am way better off for it.
He left out that the carnality is also in the mindset and the heart of those making the request.
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