I will never look at a fridge the same way ever again....
Dear Tom,
When I was in-rez, I just chalked up all that caca to being taught attention to details. I thought it was being exaggerated on purpose to help us be aware of how we could bless people in the little things when we were "on the field." I had the attitude of, "I paid for this program, I should accept what they're trying to teach me." And for the most part, I did.
But heck, I was trained as a dancer my whole life. I had just come from 4 years of dance training at the college level. It is a very disciplined profession. Teachers were authority figures to be obeyed. Attention to details didn't scare me.
But I was amazed to hear (mostly online, since I was out not long after my in-rez year) how much of the Corps training suddenly became the only godly way to do things for everybody in TWI. People being reproved for not stringing chairs, and worse, leaders seeing devil spirits behind every unstrung chair. It was the nth degree of what I had seen at Rome City, where a few elder Corps enjoyed lording their knowledge and status over younger Corps.
Well, Goey...you hit the nail on the head. I am amazed and amused by such total crap. Yes, I can laugh about it, but I also remember the anxiety brought on by these "have-tos". Of course, I didn't hang around long enough for the inspection era, but it was coming. I remember vividly a visit to our Way Home by a Corps person . We were FLAT broke and literally had nothing to eat or any disposable income to priss the place up a bit. Bless her heart...our limb leader who was head of the household somehow scraped together enough to assemble a picnic meal we served outside in our yard. (What a thrill to have sandwiches with meat and cheese !) And to help with atmosphere, I chose a classical album (being a musician, I had an eclectic selection to choose from, but I had already been told about how many rock musicians were possessed, so I decided on some works by Franz Liszt). This was the days before many albums had been released by TWI folks-I think there was one album out from Pressed Down, Shaken Together, and Running Over and one out by Good Seed, and needless to say, we could not afford to buy either. Anyway, we cleaned, welcomed our guest, played the music, and had the picnic. I was relieved that it seemed to go well. Little did I know that our leader was totally raked over the coals for EVERYTHING ! The choice of food, the sparseness of the house, and how dare we play music from a possessed person ? (It was news to me.) I was crushed --for all of us--especially her. She was the one that had to take it on the chin for that day. I do believe that was the beginning of the end for me as far as TWI. We had done our best and it was not good enough. I never did make it to the AC--I secretly thought it was insane that when someone returned, there was evil EVERYWHERE ! Control, paranoia, abuse...It may differ for some, but those seeds were sprouting even in the early to mid 70's. I didn't hang around too much longer, thank God.
If I recall there was a class in rez specifically designed to teach us things our earthly families had been deliquent in teaching us. Things like how to carve a turkey, how to iron a shirt, set the table, pack a suitcase, and manners (in case we ever had dinner with the President -- the US Pres.).
There were stories of corps teaching their WOW families manners, going out to dinner and being complimented on having such good manners. This would open the door for them to witness and the stories were used to encourage us to share the knowledge with the uneducated people we met on the field (and remember every unbeliever was uneducated in the proper way to do things).
I also remember being on the field with other people watching everything I did just to see how to do it "properly". And I was also being critized (behind my back) for not doing things the way their former "leaders" had done them.
I was in during the time when loving someone meant making them change to fit the mold. No wonder my mom thought I was in a cult -- oh that's right -- I was! And now that I'm a mom I understand how smart moms really are.
quote:It may differ for some, but those seeds were sprouting even in the early to mid 70's.
Exactly. Some may have experienced this stuff more or less, depending upon the leader(s) in their particular area.
Nevertheless, HQ began tightening the control noose from very early on, before I even became involved in 75/76. Not having been around before 75, I had nothing to compare my experiences as a newommer to. So naturally I had no real idea of how TWI was changing.
And also being "new" and just having been hit with the "Greatness of the Word" you are kind of on a pink cloud for a while - oblivious to certain things that you may normally notice.
However, after two years of being a WOW/Wow Vet and I began seeing a progression of legalism and control taking place. I saw nice folks turn into jerks and jerks getting assigned to many leadership postions. The common denominator seemed to be the Way Corps where folks were exposed to jerk training. Many folks comming back from Advanced Class training seem to have this air of elitism about them also.
By 82 I had almost had enough, but when Craig ( head jerk) was announced a President that made my decision for me to leave TwI. I could only see things getting progressively worse and not better.
What some folks don't realize is that the seeds of legalism and control had been planted even before the "good old days" of the 70's. It just took some time for them to sprout and grow. Look at it now. What at one time could have been a true movement of God, is now reduced to a stupid little cult that thrives by controlling a few peoples lives while selling them "protection" for for 10-15 percent of their income.
Ya know, guys, I find this really sad. What seemed to be an alternative, non-denominational choice to grow spiritually and "live in love" (wasn't there a book by that title ?) has become more confining and controlling than any mainstream denomination that I am familiar with. The good manners and household hints sessions I can see coming in handy and being informative, but it became so mitilaristic and regimented. You MUST do it this way or be judged to be less-than or spiritually deficient. The torment of self-doubt that lots of people endured (and still are) negates what appealed to me initially about the ministry.
By the way, was there EVER a statement made to the effect to "Check a man's tool shed and you'll know how he attends to his personal hygiene" ? And I suspect I am phrasing this much more respectfully than the refrigerator/woman pronouncement.
Goey-- ..."a stupid little cult that thrives by controlling a few peoples lives while selling them "protection" for for 10-15 percent of their income."
HOW TRUE!!!!!!!!
Jim-- "What if a man doesn't keep the engine compartment of his car clean? Will he get a prostate infection?"
I'm sure TWI would find that as a good enough reason!
But on a more serious note:
When we first came to the Cleveland area, there was a fellowship that had been disbanded and the entire group marked and avoided because of a death that occurred in their fellowship.
It seems the wife of the fellowship coordinator enjoyed a collection of porcelain angels that she had throughout her home. Except when she knew the Anal Corps were coming to visit, she would quickly sweep all the figurines onto shelves in her bedroom.
One day she was found dead in her home. When The Anal Corps came to visit afterwards, they found the angels. They then proclaimed that her death had occurred not only because she was collecting angels (debbil spurts, y'know), but also because collectively the people in the fellowship knew she had the collection but never "confronted" her about it.
Ya think it might have had something to do with the fact that she had cystic fibrosis and had already lived much longer than her life expectancy? Or maybe the fact that because she was embarassed she wasn't strong enough to get healed, that she stopped using oxygen in order to "act" on her "believing?"
Nah, it was those damn dust-catching, devil-spirit magnet angels she had in the house.
So the limb coordinator told the guy to get rid of not only the angels, but everything else his wife had owned including clothing and furniture. AND they marked and avoided HIM and his ENTIRE TWIG for not "speaking up."
Loving group of people, those wayfers.
It was this group of people we brought back into the fellowship when we came to Cleveland.
However, it was also this man that M*r* W*ll*ce demanded I threaten him with "Who do you want next in your family to die" if he allowed his stepdaughter to visit her unbelieving grandmother, who had been deprived of her only other living relative when she lost her daughter to cystic fibrosis.
Yeah, real loving folks.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 2:41.]
that limb leader should have a porcelain something shoved up his nose
that's horrible how could anyone do that ? angels are nice. the poor thing had to hide them. and then oh gosh all that absolute crappola after she passed away.
who do you want next in your family to die !!!!! oh god forget that one. i can't even address it. THAT IS SICK, WRONG, TWISTED, MEAN, CRUEL, ROTTEN, F'D UP.
Oh my, Cat. And the husband still wanted to be a part of TWI after all that...We had a twig member to die as well...she had a serious heart defect from birth. Oh, how I loved my little sister in the Word...She knew she was going to die about a month before she left us and did so with great dignity, keeping those she loved (friends and family) first in her heart, never failing to tell us how much she loved us and that she would be OK--she could face this. Mind you, she didn't embrace impending death, she would have preferred to stay with us, but the only thing that could save her was not medically available at the time--until recently, there was no hope for those needing complete heart and lung transplants. At any rate, after she passed, those she loved in TWI made statements (even to her family), that she worshipped death and could have been healed but chose not to be and, as a matter of fact, her entire family was to blame because they encouraged her to die. What comfort--huh ? Living in love, indeed. I was never so grateful that I was out by that time. It was painful enough to lose her without having to hear the accusations and blame they heaped on her and her family. And there were plenty of comments about the house she lived in--the books, decor, and knick-knacks that meant so much to her. I can shrug off some things, even laugh about others, but these actions and comments I will never forget. It makes me want to weep. And it makes me want to scream out loud in the faces of those who acted so very smug in the Word (supposedly--not MY Bible, anyway) "What WERE you thinking ? Do you not realize how hurtful and HATEFUL you are ? " Once said, those comments they made can never be unsaid. They are there forever as long as there are those of us alive to remember.
quote: However, after two years of being a WOW/Wow Vet and I began seeing a progression of legalism and control taking place. I saw nice folks turn into jerks and jerks getting assigned to many leadership postions. The common denominator seemed to be the Way Corps where folks were exposed to jerk training. ...
Wow I agree. I think the Corps was the big problem; where the jerk, legalism and ego training was taught and promoted. To me, it's the clearest least common denominator of what was, and what went wrong with TWI.
MO get scissors. MO get every nasty bit of String and cut in into inch long pieces, Oh Yessssss Precious, We Does We Does. Nasty String, Nasty Chairs, THey Hard and Metal and Hurts our BOttoms they Does...........
Yes, this man still wanted to be part of The Way International.
Even after the Limb Coordinator blamed him for practically murdering his own wife because he didn't "take the lead" in his family and forbid his wife from collecting figurines...
And everyone that had been marked and avoided in that fellowship also wanted desperately to come back to TWI even after this woman's death was laid at their feet because they never "confronted" her for having angels in her home...
These people were desperate to come back to fellowship, even though at this woman's funeral, the Limb Coordinator took over the funeral contrary to the woman's mother's wishes, making a circus out of the event and treated the grieving mother like a piece of trash at her own daughter's funeral...
This group of about 5 -6 people grasped our welcome back to fellowship like drowning people reaching for anything that floats in a hurricane. Why?
Because they truly believed that a woman could physically die because she had porcelain figurines in her home, and...
Because they truly believed that they were indeed responsible for the physical death of a woman they dearly loved, and...
Because they were crushed under a ton of Way-induced guilt, and...
They were afraid of what might happen to THEM if they remained on the outside of God's perfect "household."
In other words, they were deathly afraid they would die too, if they weren't allowed back inside.
This man finally got rid of her clothing and angel collection, but still held on to several pieces of antique furniture, and the little pet dog that his wife loved so well.
But when M*rk W*ll*ce found out he kept these things, and that the stepdaughter was being babysat by her unbelieving grandmother, he was angered. W*ll*ce demanded that I require this poor man to forbid his stepdaughter from being around her grandmother.
Understanding the strong family bonds I was being asked to break and what that would mean, I asked M*rk, "What do you want me to tell him if he refuses?" To that he replied, "You tell him Who does he want next in his family to die!"
Faithful Way Corps that I was at the time, I was very torn at what I was being asked to do. I sat down with this man and told him I understand this is difficult, but this is what M*rk was asking him to do.
When I told him that M*rK W*lla*e demanded his stepdaughter never be cared for by her grandmother again, this man broke down in tears. And at this time, I too, began to cry. He told me he simply could not ask his mother in law to never see her own flesh and blood granddaughter again. This grown man shook with sobs at the thought of having to do this. He said he couldn't.
Then I had to tell him what M*rK W*ll*ce told me to tell him.
Yes, I told him. I will admit to being M*rk W*llace's wicked messenger. I did it.
I told him while crying, but I told him.
This grown man totally broke down in front of me.
And I could not take it.
I told him he would have to make a decision. But I made up my mind I would never ASK him whether or not he was going to comply. I simply didn't want to know. I felt like it was none of my business.
So I never asked again, and he never offered to tell me.
It was that night that my husband and I agreed that we could no longer do to people what The Way International was asking us to do to them. It was cruel and inhuman.
Not too long afterwards, we stopped running our fellowship. Several months after that, I made the decision to never go back to one.
This death outside The Way issue is something Craig actively and vociferously taught-- and I was present when he said before an entire auditorium of witnesses, that he wished God would give him revelation that he could "just pray and CERTAIN people would just DROP DEAD!"
People in TWI are STILL deathly afraid to leave the organization for fear that they will drop dead.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 11:36.]
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Kevlar2000
Dot, I think it means she's cleaned the fluffy for you, spiritually speaking.
Aren't you the lucky woman!
:D-->
Reading about requiring people to fold the TP into a triangle...Thank God they weren't into origami!
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shazdancer
Goey, Tom, and Dot, that is SO gross, ROFL!!!!
I will never look at a fridge the same way ever again....
Dear Tom,
When I was in-rez, I just chalked up all that caca to being taught attention to details. I thought it was being exaggerated on purpose to help us be aware of how we could bless people in the little things when we were "on the field." I had the attitude of, "I paid for this program, I should accept what they're trying to teach me." And for the most part, I did.
But heck, I was trained as a dancer my whole life. I had just come from 4 years of dance training at the college level. It is a very disciplined profession. Teachers were authority figures to be obeyed. Attention to details didn't scare me.
But I was amazed to hear (mostly online, since I was out not long after my in-rez year) how much of the Corps training suddenly became the only godly way to do things for everybody in TWI. People being reproved for not stringing chairs, and worse, leaders seeing devil spirits behind every unstrung chair. It was the nth degree of what I had seen at Rome City, where a few elder Corps enjoyed lording their knowledge and status over younger Corps.
Some, having been abused, wanted to abuse others.
IMHO,
Shaz
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shazdancer
Dear Kevlar,
I was into origami, and was very tempted, at times...!
"Fluffy," Dot??? Oy, now I know what I will NOT name my next pet!
Shaz
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excathedra
ohmygod i can't stop laughing
and a waste of God's close space.... STOP how long have you been out TS !!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haDOT !!!!!!!! and kevlar spiritually speaking ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
i gotta go rake my rug
in the living room ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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way back in the 70s
Well, Goey...you hit the nail on the head. I am amazed and amused by such total crap. Yes, I can laugh about it, but I also remember the anxiety brought on by these "have-tos". Of course, I didn't hang around long enough for the inspection era, but it was coming. I remember vividly a visit to our Way Home by a Corps person . We were FLAT broke and literally had nothing to eat or any disposable income to priss the place up a bit. Bless her heart...our limb leader who was head of the household somehow scraped together enough to assemble a picnic meal we served outside in our yard. (What a thrill to have sandwiches with meat and cheese !) And to help with atmosphere, I chose a classical album (being a musician, I had an eclectic selection to choose from, but I had already been told about how many rock musicians were possessed, so I decided on some works by Franz Liszt). This was the days before many albums had been released by TWI folks-I think there was one album out from Pressed Down, Shaken Together, and Running Over and one out by Good Seed, and needless to say, we could not afford to buy either. Anyway, we cleaned, welcomed our guest, played the music, and had the picnic. I was relieved that it seemed to go well. Little did I know that our leader was totally raked over the coals for EVERYTHING ! The choice of food, the sparseness of the house, and how dare we play music from a possessed person ? (It was news to me.) I was crushed --for all of us--especially her. She was the one that had to take it on the chin for that day. I do believe that was the beginning of the end for me as far as TWI. We had done our best and it was not good enough. I never did make it to the AC--I secretly thought it was insane that when someone returned, there was evil EVERYWHERE ! Control, paranoia, abuse...It may differ for some, but those seeds were sprouting even in the early to mid 70's. I didn't hang around too much longer, thank God.
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MTgal
If I recall there was a class in rez specifically designed to teach us things our earthly families had been deliquent in teaching us. Things like how to carve a turkey, how to iron a shirt, set the table, pack a suitcase, and manners (in case we ever had dinner with the President -- the US Pres.).
There were stories of corps teaching their WOW families manners, going out to dinner and being complimented on having such good manners. This would open the door for them to witness and the stories were used to encourage us to share the knowledge with the uneducated people we met on the field (and remember every unbeliever was uneducated in the proper way to do things).
I also remember being on the field with other people watching everything I did just to see how to do it "properly". And I was also being critized (behind my back) for not doing things the way their former "leaders" had done them.
I was in during the time when loving someone meant making them change to fit the mold. No wonder my mom thought I was in a cult -- oh that's right -- I was! And now that I'm a mom I understand how smart moms really are.
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Goey
Way Back,
Exactly. Some may have experienced this stuff more or less, depending upon the leader(s) in their particular area.
Nevertheless, HQ began tightening the control noose from very early on, before I even became involved in 75/76. Not having been around before 75, I had nothing to compare my experiences as a newommer to. So naturally I had no real idea of how TWI was changing.
And also being "new" and just having been hit with the "Greatness of the Word" you are kind of on a pink cloud for a while - oblivious to certain things that you may normally notice.
However, after two years of being a WOW/Wow Vet and I began seeing a progression of legalism and control taking place. I saw nice folks turn into jerks and jerks getting assigned to many leadership postions. The common denominator seemed to be the Way Corps where folks were exposed to jerk training. Many folks comming back from Advanced Class training seem to have this air of elitism about them also.
By 82 I had almost had enough, but when Craig ( head jerk) was announced a President that made my decision for me to leave TwI. I could only see things getting progressively worse and not better.
What some folks don't realize is that the seeds of legalism and control had been planted even before the "good old days" of the 70's. It just took some time for them to sprout and grow. Look at it now. What at one time could have been a true movement of God, is now reduced to a stupid little cult that thrives by controlling a few peoples lives while selling them "protection" for for 10-15 percent of their income.
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way back in the 70s
Ya know, guys, I find this really sad. What seemed to be an alternative, non-denominational choice to grow spiritually and "live in love" (wasn't there a book by that title ?) has become more confining and controlling than any mainstream denomination that I am familiar with. The good manners and household hints sessions I can see coming in handy and being informative, but it became so mitilaristic and regimented. You MUST do it this way or be judged to be less-than or spiritually deficient. The torment of self-doubt that lots of people endured (and still are) negates what appealed to me initially about the ministry.
By the way, was there EVER a statement made to the effect to "Check a man's tool shed and you'll know how he attends to his personal hygiene" ? And I suspect I am phrasing this much more respectfully than the refrigerator/woman pronouncement.
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Jim
What if a man doesn't keep the engine compartment of his car clean? Will he get a prostate infection?
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Catcup
Goey-- ..."a stupid little cult that thrives by controlling a few peoples lives while selling them "protection" for for 10-15 percent of their income."
HOW TRUE!!!!!!!!
Jim-- "What if a man doesn't keep the engine compartment of his car clean? Will he get a prostate infection?"
I'm sure TWI would find that as a good enough reason!
But on a more serious note:
When we first came to the Cleveland area, there was a fellowship that had been disbanded and the entire group marked and avoided because of a death that occurred in their fellowship.
It seems the wife of the fellowship coordinator enjoyed a collection of porcelain angels that she had throughout her home. Except when she knew the Anal Corps were coming to visit, she would quickly sweep all the figurines onto shelves in her bedroom.
One day she was found dead in her home. When The Anal Corps came to visit afterwards, they found the angels. They then proclaimed that her death had occurred not only because she was collecting angels (debbil spurts, y'know), but also because collectively the people in the fellowship knew she had the collection but never "confronted" her about it.
Ya think it might have had something to do with the fact that she had cystic fibrosis and had already lived much longer than her life expectancy? Or maybe the fact that because she was embarassed she wasn't strong enough to get healed, that she stopped using oxygen in order to "act" on her "believing?"
Nah, it was those damn dust-catching, devil-spirit magnet angels she had in the house.
So the limb coordinator told the guy to get rid of not only the angels, but everything else his wife had owned including clothing and furniture. AND they marked and avoided HIM and his ENTIRE TWIG for not "speaking up."
Loving group of people, those wayfers.
It was this group of people we brought back into the fellowship when we came to Cleveland.
However, it was also this man that M*r* W*ll*ce demanded I threaten him with "Who do you want next in your family to die" if he allowed his stepdaughter to visit her unbelieving grandmother, who had been deprived of her only other living relative when she lost her daughter to cystic fibrosis.
Yeah, real loving folks.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 2:41.]
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excathedra
that is disgusting really disgusting. it's sick.
that limb leader should have a porcelain something shoved up his nose
that's horrible how could anyone do that ? angels are nice. the poor thing had to hide them. and then oh gosh all that absolute crappola after she passed away.
who do you want next in your family to die !!!!! oh god forget that one. i can't even address it. THAT IS SICK, WRONG, TWISTED, MEAN, CRUEL, ROTTEN, F'D UP.
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way back in the 70s
Oh my, Cat. And the husband still wanted to be a part of TWI after all that...We had a twig member to die as well...she had a serious heart defect from birth. Oh, how I loved my little sister in the Word...She knew she was going to die about a month before she left us and did so with great dignity, keeping those she loved (friends and family) first in her heart, never failing to tell us how much she loved us and that she would be OK--she could face this. Mind you, she didn't embrace impending death, she would have preferred to stay with us, but the only thing that could save her was not medically available at the time--until recently, there was no hope for those needing complete heart and lung transplants. At any rate, after she passed, those she loved in TWI made statements (even to her family), that she worshipped death and could have been healed but chose not to be and, as a matter of fact, her entire family was to blame because they encouraged her to die. What comfort--huh ? Living in love, indeed. I was never so grateful that I was out by that time. It was painful enough to lose her without having to hear the accusations and blame they heaped on her and her family. And there were plenty of comments about the house she lived in--the books, decor, and knick-knacks that meant so much to her. I can shrug off some things, even laugh about others, but these actions and comments I will never forget. It makes me want to weep. And it makes me want to scream out loud in the faces of those who acted so very smug in the Word (supposedly--not MY Bible, anyway) "What WERE you thinking ? Do you not realize how hurtful and HATEFUL you are ? " Once said, those comments they made can never be unsaid. They are there forever as long as there are those of us alive to remember.
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JustThinking
Clean 'fridge = Clean fluffy? Woah! Can you say "issues." Yikes!
Jim,
Wouldn't a clean TAILPIPE indicate a healthy prostate? ;-) (I can hear exie losing her breakfast already)
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Tom Strange
myseestorEx said:
I was thinking of some other place...Link to comment
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oldiesman
Wow I agree. I think the Corps was the big problem; where the jerk, legalism and ego training was taught and promoted. To me, it's the clearest least common denominator of what was, and what went wrong with TWI.
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Tom Strange
and who was it that taught the corps?
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insurgent
I remember being taught how to properly vacuum so that the tracks were proper and godly.
The proper way to sweep.
The proper order for cleaning - especially dust and vacuum.
The proper way to floss my teeth and report that I did it.
The proper way to hang my clothes.
I wonder if there is a dust bunny support group in my area....
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Dot Matrix
Catcup
I am so sorry that happened to that poor guy. So, he got rid of all of things and they still M&A'd him?
Makes me want to kick some a$s...
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Dot Matrix
I love dust bunnies and keep them as pets now that I can not afford a maid.
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templelady
MO get scissors. MO get every nasty bit of String and cut in into inch long pieces, Oh Yessssss Precious, We Does We Does. Nasty String, Nasty Chairs, THey Hard and Metal and Hurts our BOttoms they Does...........
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Catcup
Yes, this man still wanted to be part of The Way International.
Even after the Limb Coordinator blamed him for practically murdering his own wife because he didn't "take the lead" in his family and forbid his wife from collecting figurines...
And everyone that had been marked and avoided in that fellowship also wanted desperately to come back to TWI even after this woman's death was laid at their feet because they never "confronted" her for having angels in her home...
These people were desperate to come back to fellowship, even though at this woman's funeral, the Limb Coordinator took over the funeral contrary to the woman's mother's wishes, making a circus out of the event and treated the grieving mother like a piece of trash at her own daughter's funeral...
This group of about 5 -6 people grasped our welcome back to fellowship like drowning people reaching for anything that floats in a hurricane. Why?
Because they truly believed that a woman could physically die because she had porcelain figurines in her home, and...
Because they truly believed that they were indeed responsible for the physical death of a woman they dearly loved, and...
Because they were crushed under a ton of Way-induced guilt, and...
They were afraid of what might happen to THEM if they remained on the outside of God's perfect "household."
In other words, they were deathly afraid they would die too, if they weren't allowed back inside.
This man finally got rid of her clothing and angel collection, but still held on to several pieces of antique furniture, and the little pet dog that his wife loved so well.
But when M*rk W*ll*ce found out he kept these things, and that the stepdaughter was being babysat by her unbelieving grandmother, he was angered. W*ll*ce demanded that I require this poor man to forbid his stepdaughter from being around her grandmother.
Understanding the strong family bonds I was being asked to break and what that would mean, I asked M*rk, "What do you want me to tell him if he refuses?" To that he replied, "You tell him Who does he want next in his family to die!"
Faithful Way Corps that I was at the time, I was very torn at what I was being asked to do. I sat down with this man and told him I understand this is difficult, but this is what M*rk was asking him to do.
When I told him that M*rK W*lla*e demanded his stepdaughter never be cared for by her grandmother again, this man broke down in tears. And at this time, I too, began to cry. He told me he simply could not ask his mother in law to never see her own flesh and blood granddaughter again. This grown man shook with sobs at the thought of having to do this. He said he couldn't.
Then I had to tell him what M*rK W*ll*ce told me to tell him.
Yes, I told him. I will admit to being M*rk W*llace's wicked messenger. I did it.
I told him while crying, but I told him.
This grown man totally broke down in front of me.
And I could not take it.
I told him he would have to make a decision. But I made up my mind I would never ASK him whether or not he was going to comply. I simply didn't want to know. I felt like it was none of my business.
So I never asked again, and he never offered to tell me.
It was that night that my husband and I agreed that we could no longer do to people what The Way International was asking us to do to them. It was cruel and inhuman.
Not too long afterwards, we stopped running our fellowship. Several months after that, I made the decision to never go back to one.
This death outside The Way issue is something Craig actively and vociferously taught-- and I was present when he said before an entire auditorium of witnesses, that he wished God would give him revelation that he could "just pray and CERTAIN people would just DROP DEAD!"
People in TWI are STILL deathly afraid to leave the organization for fear that they will drop dead.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 22, 2004 at 11:36.]
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Catcup
And by the way--
That man and the entire group that was marked and avoided that we welcomed back to TWI--
They remain obedient to TWI to this day...
BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THEY WILL DIE IF THEY LEAVE.
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Catcup
Another post script:
If you think TWI has changed since LCM left, think again. The monster M*rk W*ll*ce who demanded such a thing and made such a threat...
WAS A PAID FULL TIME MINISTER REPRESENTING THE INTERESTS OF THE WAY INTERNATIONAL
when he did this thing, AND TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HE STILL IS.
Last time I heard, he was a region coordinator.
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Dot Matrix
I am sick....
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