I had to fill out a form to travel to Iowa to see my fiance. The form asked for my dates of travel, who was I seeing,where was I staying, all phone numbers, it was a 8x11 filled with questions. In order for me to visit there I had to hand it in the day I got back because I had to give notice 3 weeks ahead of time which means I was only allowed to see him every 3 wks.
Then it was mandatory to go to fellowship 3x a wweek. I had to travel 1hr each way and heaven forbide I was sick or any reason for not going. I hated calling the coordinator if I had to miss. I had to giveall the ,nausea ,running nose,fever, it was awful. Then in 95 they started with the debt stuff. My best friend who had Cancer was not allowed to take AC unless her husband paid off his debt....How insane..all she wanted to do was kick the Adversarys but so she could get healed..how twisted...how ungodly....
"people wanted leaders they wanted others to control and decide till they got enough to decide for themselves what will work for their life. Maybe it works for some still . How is it wrong if it works for you ?
I do not know what their motive is or was for such a detailed scedule of a persons life but I do know it may be because people wnated it asked for it and the leaders did it in love."
I am going to guess mj that you were never a part of TWI2. All was fear motivation, not love.
True godly love had gone out the door during this period of time. We were in the "Promised Land" of the prevailing word.
You couldn't have any shortcomings or flaws or faults because this could bring the entire household down, just as in the OT, one unbelieving believer was the reasons for certain believers who were killed back then. You did not want to be the one believer who caused the death of others in the Promise Land of the Prevailing Word.
And you were to only witness, pretty much to the middle class (that's where the ABS comes in). The word was over the world so JoeBum didn't need to hear it. (literal translation according to usage: Joebum had no money so don't witness to him) Apparently everyone in the world had been witnessed to and accepted or rejected PFAL (LCM's way)
This is purely fear motivation, and my children and myself had been taught, if you leave the Way, you will be a greasespot by midnight. My children were terrified when they found out we had been marked and avoided.
I am glad I finally took my responsibilities as a mother seriously, and got my kid's out of there. Yes I am the final repsponsible person, but our minds were really messed up, after being in so long 1975-2002, so it wasn't as easy as you are making it out to be. You didn't JUST SAY NO and move on your merry way in TWI2.
I think all this stuff happened because of the hidden agenda. Martindale needed his ego stroked and it was all done in his name. I am way 1 and 2. 75-2000. The Way 2 turned the Gods word into a lie!!Im sticking to that.
I was in twi2 I went back and I pulled some who had gotten involved out and they got hurt very very very badly and they still suffer well till they got involved in an off- shoot (hah a ) (ok not so funny but what eles can I do?
yes I agree I watched and I could not believe it !!!1
Un freaking believable what these families went through . BUT here my thing i went to the meeting I did I had realtioships with the leaders... but I was never harrassed.
they might have asked once... not again . They clearly knew I was pulling people out of the control and they never and I mean to tell you never and to this day approached me as wrong or threatened me or "did" anything to me. they never say I cant go to a meeting in fact they still want me to go even a couple of months ago.
I was marked and I didnt give a flying crap either I still went back and will continue to do so when the Lord so directs. HA!
Why??? I do not want to hurt anyone but this is Just the truth , because I know the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord not a man or some woman . And I truly Love God and those who love HIm .
Have I cried about the sorrow and pain I have watched some suffer? YES I have but I realize they chose to not fix the car and go to the advance class instead and lost their job because of it and now are homeless.. oh I saw the mess people did for twi.
key word for twi . I never signed on for twi and I still do not .
I know it God knows it and His people know it.
God loves His children Jesus will never forsake US!
After I was marked I never and I mean to tell ya never gave a crap what any person in or out told me to do or think I pray I think I can help and I do what I wanted. Honestly they do not ask me to prove anything.
But see I realize some needed to learn what I learned from twi1 in twi2 and I allow them to learn it and help the cause as much as I am able!
I never suffered in twi2 and I do not suffer with twi today when I deal with them they are only people and grown up can tell people no, the problem is people didnt want to face the consequences of not being in a cult and people pleasing. It is rough at first but I tell ya God is better than people for trusting for me.
I think that question w a question idea is/was pretty smart... but only would've worked on the "old, old. timer" leaders which I don't think there are too many still around.
Any body that's come along in the last 10-15 years doesn't know ANY scripture. Couldn't give you a "chapter and verse" to save their life.
This whole micro-management thing just blows me away... That real grown up adults would submit to this crap astounds me. Yes, we had some of this crap in-rez but that was "under their roof" so to speak and I just went along with it. But "Intimate schedules" ... c'mon !!!!
It almost makes me sad to have left so quietly. I almost feel like I missed the fun of getting in some idiots face and screaming louder than they could. (I did learn from the best... R*lp* Dub**ky and J*** M**n ! AND I still love them for teaching me)... but I digress... intimate schedules indeed!!!!
If you're still "in" and want reason to leave... or you're sitting on the fence...
I know areas could be alot different than others, depending on who was in a leadership position.
I only lived 20 minutes from headquarters and was absolutely obligated to attend STS and my youngest be in children's fellowship. So I sat in the auditorium every Sunday and listened to LCM rant and rave etc. etc..I also know it was mandatory for others to travel even way farther than that on a Sunday afternoon.
Did you know that all the believers in a 50 miles radius were the ones responsible to God for keeping LCM safe by our prayer and our stand. We were supposedly "first line defense". That was alot of responsibility when you thought of LCM as the man of God.
Some people are stronger than others, and you appear to be that type, I am glad that it has worked out so well for you. I was real happy myself when "I grew up" and decided nobody was going to make any decisions for me ever again.
Then I got married hahahaha just kidding, not about the marriage part but the implication LOL
So I have noticed that where a person lived has made some differences in how intense maybe their involvement was. Maybe not, just rambling out loud (or on screen).
yes and that is why I am here at GS, to understand.
my own trauma an drama I mean to tell ya taught me REAL reality with God me and my family and life, like you said growing up and yes it was by force. I was indeed thrown out in an ugly horrid scene of drama. But I went back and I will continue to go back.
then to go back and watch people chose to stay in to answer to idiots to compromise their families and welfare I realized hate just doesnt work that people( me included and I never forgot that) believe this hook line and sinker and the draw is serving God almighty with the way ministry. It is about self righteousness and power for the individual as well as the ministry which hosts the mess(cult).
Is it because some have alot of difficulty finding a self again in the midlle of the borg mind set. I GET that I get that. I do not blame the leaders geez they have it worse than anyone always have... I never stop loving them Because Jesus christ loved me enough to help me I know I know He can help them find HIM .
some chose the life ya know they chose it . I do not think it is wrong for them till it disturbs them . That is when I end up in their face and I have seen the worst of the foolishness in people thinking another person will "take care of them".
I do not judge them tho and I never will if it is working for them and they seem and feel they are doing the right thing for them I kowit never worked for me when I was involved.
hahaha I just do not care anymore . to me that is the only difference between being "IN" and I guess you would say "out"?
I love them I hear them and I speak bible with them I pray for them and I truly care about all of us.
for me there is no "them" no good guys , and no bad guys.
ya know I think some here on GS wouldnt speak to people in twi because of bitterness or blaming others for your own life lessons.
We all do not have the same life lessons ya know.
I remember to forgive others , myself included, I think if a person can not forgive their own self for being in the cult and for maybe making bad choices the blame must shift to another to cope with life in general.
but it wont help you find peace this blaming others for what you did wrong in life, it just keeps folks bitter and in fear of one another and honest relatioships .
sure you can hate what happened to ya, but to hate an invisable source of a group of people who still teach what you once believed as truth wont change them or make your life happy.
twi is not going to fix your pain yes you can account them for helping you to become confused and mislead, that is a large part of life untill each person is able to stand on his own and say I can I am able I am precious in the sight of God. and so are you!
what a great life we have! and chose to be happy .
I remember how M*rK W*ll*ce at a TC meeting ripped into how horrible this woman's house looked when he went to visit her after a chemotherapy treatment. Just because she had "dishes in her sink".
Dishes in her sink.
She had debbil spirits and that's why she was dying of cancer.
And she was so awful because her dishes weren't done.
Hell, she was pukin her guts out. What did he expect?
The difference between him and a REAL leader?
A real leader would have had the compassion to do the woman's dishes for her.
Yep, I have been on missions to check people's homes. We call and ask if we can come over in the next 15 minutes. We go and say we were just wanting to check on them and see how they were doing.
We then make notes with the hfc on how dirty the house was, how unhappy the wife was that we dropped in on them with no warning, how unruly the kids were.
Then we put these people on probation because they can't keep their house in order.
Yeppers, been there - done that. Hung my head in shame and vowed to never do anything like that again.
This is not about being clever or about me I covered that in my earlier post as I anticipated it may come up I did not think it would be from you. :(--> In relating your thoughts at times people use the word I,it is speaking from your perspective nothing more it does not make you clever or enlightened it's just english.
If you will reread my post you will see that I never said that answering a question with a question was a magic bullet nor did I say it would work in all or every situation. I can imagine several situations where it would not have been an option,for those living at a root local for instance. My question was did anyone do this and what were the results. It appears that Just Thinking did she posted:
My best guess is that our bc was a twit and feared anyone who could think faster than he could. (That was a lot of people, btw) When he would call for it, I would have questions for him he couldn't answer. He was too embarrassed to keep calling our lc with questions and just "forgot" about us, I suppose.
The bc (same twit above) saw it and jumped on her for "living in filth." When I found about it after twig one day, I asked if we could come to his house afterwards to show her an example of how she should keep her place. He freaked! He was scared because I had seen his house. It was actually less organized than hers. :-)
Home inspections stopped.
That was my point in part it looks as though it did work in her situation also. There are many things that we have no control over in situations like this as someone once said we can't keep from being kicked but we can determine the direction we go in . Obviously we can not determine what the Way will do from a organizational standpoint ie: whether they kick you out of a program or fellowship and such but if we can leave feeling better about ourselves I think that the afterlife goes a little easier. My experiance in speaking with others has been that those who spoke up said what they had to say have adjusted to life after the way a little better than those who did not. Much like leaving a job as opposed to being fired most people feel differently.
As I said it was not about placing judgement or worth on either group of people but learning what did and did not work and why.
Anyone in the way pretty much knows that politics in the Way pretty much stopped anyone that resembled Ozzie & Harriet from being in a leadership position so no I did not deal with those type people and you know I live 45 min from a root location Emporia and those were the leaders we delt with Campus leaders ,Limb leaders, Corps Leaders hardly Mayberry come on.
And fairy tales? I don't know what goes on in the movie world but I think it is hardly reality.
What the inner circle believed is irrelevant lots of people think they are untouchable they find out different when they are brought down low. Ask Craig if he feels untouchable about now.
Yes I do think SOME of the abuse was /is manageble some is/was not.The scripture does say a soft answer turns away wrath. Just thinking said I think they feared questions they could not answer and people that could think faster than they could. I agree! So if we can learn from that and help those still in to understand and do that maybe a few more,if only one, will leave with their dignity intact. A worthy Pursuit?
[This message was edited by WhiteDove on March 16, 2004 at 14:08.]
I don't think you can predict how any given leader will react when/if someome decides to end their relationship with TWI.
Leaving with your dignity intact is a nice goal, but I wouldn't count on it actually happening. Take the "high-road" if possible, if it is not possible then just take one that will get you out - hopefully sooner than later.
But, like the Paul Simon song goes, "There must be 50 ways leave your lover".
Dot: Let me edit part of your post here a second...
And here is an example of a TRUE story:
Corps Leader and WOW were WOW together and then remained roommates for two more years. This story is on the third year of being roommates. I will refer to her as a WOW but this is actually two years after she did her WOW commitment.
Devil spirit(s) to WOW:
"I don’t think you should go out with Mark."
WOW
"I like him and he has been going to twig for over a year and I am going with him."
Spirit:
"I think you have a defiant spirit."
WOW
"Chapter and verse?"
Spirit:
"I am you leader, I get revelation for your life."
WOW
"God, would tell me first."
Wow walks away and goes into the bathroom to get away from it all.
Leader follows her into the bathroom and blocks the doorway. Spirit then says, "I think we need to sing a hymn; devil spirits hate God's music let's sing."
WOW
"I do not want to sing."
Spirit starts to sing
WOW tried to leave bathroom
WOW
"Let me out of here."
Spirit
"No, you are having devil problems." (how true)
Wow was stuck in bathroom for over 30 minutes (may have been an hour I forget now)crying and trying to leave.
WOW escapes. Spirit yells, "If you do not listen to me, you will marry him and have retarded children."
WOW runs down the street and flags down a passing motorist. Motorist drives WOW to where I work. WOW is sobbing and tells me all sorts of things. She begs me to help her escape the WAY home. Every time she had tried to leave this woman had done these things to her.
WOW is a very good and decent person. She manifested the fruits of the spirit. I believe her.
I hide the woman out.
Wow then tells us how she used to wear make-up and cute little clothes. How the corps leader pushed her into the bathroom and washed the make-up off her face. Called her a whore when she wore cute things and kept her like a scary husband frightens a wife into staying. When WOW went to “above leadership”, that “above leader” called in the "corps leader" (WOW's roommate) who convinced these (5-sense knowledge men) that the WOW had devils.
(OK, the above paragraph is straight from PFAL; if a devil spirit says jump, a lesser devil spirit doesn't ask how high, he jumps. So the "corps leader" must have had a bigger spirit than the "above leadership")
The leadership then turns on WOW telling her she must listen to “leader” for her own spiritual well being.... She begged me to believe her and I did. There was always something creepy about her “leader” roommate.
I call a corps sister of mine (the wife of an area leader) and we stash WOW.
Wife does not tell her husband as we know husband has a blank allegiance to his superiors and is severely uncool.
My corps sister and I prayed and we knew we could tell nobody what was happening.
Insurgent - at least you had the decency to call first.
One of my tc's used to come over at her pleasure and if the door was unlocked, walk right in and sit in my kitchen.
One day, I was collecting closthes from the dryer, when I came upstairs she wanted to know why my living room floor was cluttered with "all those paper things" and why wasn't I picking them up?
I gave her an answer - stupid me! I told her the truth, I was grading student poster projects on the floor because they were too big to fit on a table when the drier buzzed and I wanted to fold the laundry before it wrinkled.
I got a lecture about not finishing one task before starting another. I was going to introduce her to the term "multitasking" but thought better of it and put on the coffee instead.
We sat chatting while I folded laundry and put the basket on the stairs to bring up next trip. (there was no offer of help) I asked her to bring her coffee into the living room so I could finish my maps...she came...told me I assigned too much work to my students....and suggested I should manage things better by.....&....&.....etc. I nodded politely because I didn't want another arguement.
I didn't realize that this was an "inspection". I'd never heard of that....until several months later when someone mentioned that I fold men't tee shirts wrong. It clicked immediately but I remained silent because by this time I was aware of spy tactics on others.
At least when you announce home inspections, you know what's going on. This bunch just did it on the sneak...and wrote stuff down.
*************************************
You know how some people stretch their arm on top of a sofa when relaxing? I never thought about it twice until one nite, there was a "tape night" at my house. Somebody accidentally dropped a notebook behind the sofa, and when I went to get coffee - and - ready...they pulled out the coffee table and sofa to get the notebook. The assistant tc looked at the tc in amazement and said "the vent's clean!" (we had hot air heat, and the return vent was behind the sofa)
It took a long time for me to get over this, and I never really did. Once I realized the treachery I vowed to never be unprepared in any area again. It drove me crazy, but I kept the vow. I should have tossed the lot of them out...but keeping God in my life was too important to me and I was so brainwashed that He would leave me instantly, that I never dared to do that.
I don't think you can predict how any given leader will react when/if someome decides to end their relationship with TWI.
Agreed!! There are always a lot of factors to consider (their mental state at the moment would be one) But in gathering data on what does or does not work if you find it has a sucesss rate of 9 out of 10 times then it is your best option and would generally work. If you punch someone in the face generally they punch you back not always but mostly that is the case. Using that info I can conclude that if I do this there is a good chance that I will be punched.
In dealing with screaming Way leaders it's the old roaring lion thing they count on their prey freezing and then they slaughter them. If you charge back instead they (from my limited research) are taken off guard. It is never a comfortable situation but not being fearful of them is your best option What are they going to do throw you out, talk about you, YES!! But they will do that anyway if they want.
Here is a true story:
Rome City 4:00 A.M. one night
Way Corps and kids dragged into auditorium to get screamed at for something that ONE person did earlier that day most had no idea what the hell it was even about.
After about 5 min of everyone sitting there cowering a voice in the room ( New York accent here) Yo this is f***en Bu**.... (smirks & laughfter) you drag us all in here with our kids at 4:00 F@*@@*g oclock in the morning to yell at us for something that no one has f@8283g clue what you are talking about. (After using witnessing rule one getting their attention) Then proceedes to present logical reasons why he should addresss it with the person involved.Then (more join in and voice their disaproval also) so much so that leaders wife says honey perfection is in the Lord you know. Leader was so caught off guard and embarressed he storms off stage. Meeting adjourned no closing song..... Corps went joyfuly back to sleep. end of true story.....
Dot It was not your post I did not like. It was the Ozzie & Harriet & Mayberry comments You know that was not true it was a low blow and you are better than that.
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likeaneagle
I had to fill out a form to travel to Iowa to see my fiance. The form asked for my dates of travel, who was I seeing,where was I staying, all phone numbers, it was a 8x11 filled with questions. In order for me to visit there I had to hand it in the day I got back because I had to give notice 3 weeks ahead of time which means I was only allowed to see him every 3 wks.
Then it was mandatory to go to fellowship 3x a wweek. I had to travel 1hr each way and heaven forbide I was sick or any reason for not going. I hated calling the coordinator if I had to miss. I had to giveall the ,nausea ,running nose,fever, it was awful. Then in 95 they started with the debt stuff. My best friend who had Cancer was not allowed to take AC unless her husband paid off his debt....How insane..all she wanted to do was kick the Adversarys but so she could get healed..how twisted...how ungodly....
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outofdafog
"people wanted leaders they wanted others to control and decide till they got enough to decide for themselves what will work for their life. Maybe it works for some still . How is it wrong if it works for you ?
I do not know what their motive is or was for such a detailed scedule of a persons life but I do know it may be because people wnated it asked for it and the leaders did it in love."
I am going to guess mj that you were never a part of TWI2. All was fear motivation, not love.
True godly love had gone out the door during this period of time. We were in the "Promised Land" of the prevailing word.
You couldn't have any shortcomings or flaws or faults because this could bring the entire household down, just as in the OT, one unbelieving believer was the reasons for certain believers who were killed back then. You did not want to be the one believer who caused the death of others in the Promise Land of the Prevailing Word.
And you were to only witness, pretty much to the middle class (that's where the ABS comes in). The word was over the world so JoeBum didn't need to hear it. (literal translation according to usage: Joebum had no money so don't witness to him) Apparently everyone in the world had been witnessed to and accepted or rejected PFAL (LCM's way)
This is purely fear motivation, and my children and myself had been taught, if you leave the Way, you will be a greasespot by midnight. My children were terrified when they found out we had been marked and avoided.
I am glad I finally took my responsibilities as a mother seriously, and got my kid's out of there. Yes I am the final repsponsible person, but our minds were really messed up, after being in so long 1975-2002, so it wasn't as easy as you are making it out to be. You didn't JUST SAY NO and move on your merry way in TWI2.
outofdafog
Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
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likeaneagle
I think all this stuff happened because of the hidden agenda. Martindale needed his ego stroked and it was all done in his name. I am way 1 and 2. 75-2000. The Way 2 turned the Gods word into a lie!!Im sticking to that.
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mj412
out of the fog.
I was in twi2 I went back and I pulled some who had gotten involved out and they got hurt very very very badly and they still suffer well till they got involved in an off- shoot (hah a ) (ok not so funny but what eles can I do?
yes I agree I watched and I could not believe it !!!1
Un freaking believable what these families went through . BUT here my thing i went to the meeting I did I had realtioships with the leaders... but I was never harrassed.
they might have asked once... not again . They clearly knew I was pulling people out of the control and they never and I mean to tell you never and to this day approached me as wrong or threatened me or "did" anything to me. they never say I cant go to a meeting in fact they still want me to go even a couple of months ago.
I was marked and I didnt give a flying crap either I still went back and will continue to do so when the Lord so directs. HA!
Why??? I do not want to hurt anyone but this is Just the truth , because I know the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord not a man or some woman . And I truly Love God and those who love HIm .
Have I cried about the sorrow and pain I have watched some suffer? YES I have but I realize they chose to not fix the car and go to the advance class instead and lost their job because of it and now are homeless.. oh I saw the mess people did for twi.
key word for twi . I never signed on for twi and I still do not .
I know it God knows it and His people know it.
God loves His children Jesus will never forsake US!
After I was marked I never and I mean to tell ya never gave a crap what any person in or out told me to do or think I pray I think I can help and I do what I wanted. Honestly they do not ask me to prove anything.
But see I realize some needed to learn what I learned from twi1 in twi2 and I allow them to learn it and help the cause as much as I am able!
I never suffered in twi2 and I do not suffer with twi today when I deal with them they are only people and grown up can tell people no, the problem is people didnt want to face the consequences of not being in a cult and people pleasing. It is rough at first but I tell ya God is better than people for trusting for me.
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Al Poole
Maybe I'm twisted but I REALLY want more excerpts from Socks time sheet!!!
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Al Poole
Yo WD
I think that question w a question idea is/was pretty smart... but only would've worked on the "old, old. timer" leaders which I don't think there are too many still around.
Any body that's come along in the last 10-15 years doesn't know ANY scripture. Couldn't give you a "chapter and verse" to save their life.
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Al Poole
This whole micro-management thing just blows me away... That real grown up adults would submit to this crap astounds me. Yes, we had some of this crap in-rez but that was "under their roof" so to speak and I just went along with it. But "Intimate schedules" ... c'mon !!!!
It almost makes me sad to have left so quietly. I almost feel like I missed the fun of getting in some idiots face and screaming louder than they could. (I did learn from the best... R*lp* Dub**ky and J*** M**n ! AND I still love them for teaching me)... but I digress... intimate schedules indeed!!!!
If you're still "in" and want reason to leave... or you're sitting on the fence...
ask the "ministry" doctrine on adultery.
Scripture is clear! twi will dance and dance...
Makes you go hhmmmmmmmmmmmm ?!?!
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mj412
yep
That is true
few people in twi know what the bible says regarding any subject.
They can quote a class or a book from the ministry but move just a hair away from a teaching and they have nothing .
for a reaserch minstry this is very telling.
God is not so small as the way ministry.
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outofdafog
Mj,
I know areas could be alot different than others, depending on who was in a leadership position.
I only lived 20 minutes from headquarters and was absolutely obligated to attend STS and my youngest be in children's fellowship. So I sat in the auditorium every Sunday and listened to LCM rant and rave etc. etc..I also know it was mandatory for others to travel even way farther than that on a Sunday afternoon.
Did you know that all the believers in a 50 miles radius were the ones responsible to God for keeping LCM safe by our prayer and our stand. We were supposedly "first line defense". That was alot of responsibility when you thought of LCM as the man of God.
Some people are stronger than others, and you appear to be that type, I am glad that it has worked out so well for you. I was real happy myself when "I grew up" and decided nobody was going to make any decisions for me ever again.
Then I got married hahahaha just kidding, not about the marriage part but the implication LOL
So I have noticed that where a person lived has made some differences in how intense maybe their involvement was. Maybe not, just rambling out loud (or on screen).
Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
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mj412
I was marked very early in my time with twi.
but I was as involved as possible believe me !
yes and that is why I am here at GS, to understand.
my own trauma an drama I mean to tell ya taught me REAL reality with God me and my family and life, like you said growing up and yes it was by force. I was indeed thrown out in an ugly horrid scene of drama. But I went back and I will continue to go back.
then to go back and watch people chose to stay in to answer to idiots to compromise their families and welfare I realized hate just doesnt work that people( me included and I never forgot that) believe this hook line and sinker and the draw is serving God almighty with the way ministry. It is about self righteousness and power for the individual as well as the ministry which hosts the mess(cult).
Is it because some have alot of difficulty finding a self again in the midlle of the borg mind set. I GET that I get that. I do not blame the leaders geez they have it worse than anyone always have... I never stop loving them Because Jesus christ loved me enough to help me I know I know He can help them find HIM .
some chose the life ya know they chose it . I do not think it is wrong for them till it disturbs them . That is when I end up in their face and I have seen the worst of the foolishness in people thinking another person will "take care of them".
I do not judge them tho and I never will if it is working for them and they seem and feel they are doing the right thing for them I kowit never worked for me when I was involved.
to realistic I guess.
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frank123lol
I got involved again in95 just in time for the last roa.It went downhill from there.
The jerk in charge said no more twig figure it
out he said.Then we did letters with him and he
reproved us through the mail.Nit picking stuff
if you questioned any thing he said you were slothfuland not paying attention to what he said
Then we could get together with another family
but it was not twig by that time the word twig
became a no no.
All the other family did was basically spie on you
Then we met his approval we again could have fellowship.3 times weekly and god forbid if you missed a few.
On top of that I was working shift work so my
schedule was anything but normal
At one point we were told to leave the area because it was not vital enough
Am I bitter?No
do I have a story? hell yes
What a controlling group they are
Glad to be out.Thanks to you here and family life radio I soon learned God is bigger more
forgiving and have a better relationship with
God
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mj412
I am still told what is wrong with me .
hahaha I just do not care anymore . to me that is the only difference between being "IN" and I guess you would say "out"?
I love them I hear them and I speak bible with them I pray for them and I truly care about all of us.
for me there is no "them" no good guys , and no bad guys.
ya know I think some here on GS wouldnt speak to people in twi because of bitterness or blaming others for your own life lessons.
We all do not have the same life lessons ya know.
I remember to forgive others , myself included, I think if a person can not forgive their own self for being in the cult and for maybe making bad choices the blame must shift to another to cope with life in general.
but it wont help you find peace this blaming others for what you did wrong in life, it just keeps folks bitter and in fear of one another and honest relatioships .
sure you can hate what happened to ya, but to hate an invisable source of a group of people who still teach what you once believed as truth wont change them or make your life happy.
twi is not going to fix your pain yes you can account them for helping you to become confused and mislead, that is a large part of life untill each person is able to stand on his own and say I can I am able I am precious in the sight of God. and so are you!
what a great life we have! and chose to be happy .
some just never do.
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Dot Matrix
JT
"I only knew of one person who had to submit to home inspections."
Home inspections? Oh my God! That must of happened after I left or in a different area.
Can you believe that? How communist is that?
The TWI "police" come in and inspect your house?
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Catcup
Oh hell yeah, home inspections.
Informally at first.
I remember how M*rK W*ll*ce at a TC meeting ripped into how horrible this woman's house looked when he went to visit her after a chemotherapy treatment. Just because she had "dishes in her sink".
Dishes in her sink.
She had debbil spirits and that's why she was dying of cancer.
And she was so awful because her dishes weren't done.
Hell, she was pukin her guts out. What did he expect?
The difference between him and a REAL leader?
A real leader would have had the compassion to do the woman's dishes for her.
What an .....
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insurgent
Yep, I have been on missions to check people's homes. We call and ask if we can come over in the next 15 minutes. We go and say we were just wanting to check on them and see how they were doing.
We then make notes with the hfc on how dirty the house was, how unhappy the wife was that we dropped in on them with no warning, how unruly the kids were.
Then we put these people on probation because they can't keep their house in order.
Yeppers, been there - done that. Hung my head in shame and vowed to never do anything like that again.
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WhiteDove
Dot
This is not about being clever or about me I covered that in my earlier post as I anticipated it may come up I did not think it would be from you.
:(--> In relating your thoughts at times people use the word I,it is speaking from your perspective nothing more it does not make you clever or enlightened it's just english.
If you will reread my post you will see that I never said that answering a question with a question was a magic bullet nor did I say it would work in all or every situation. I can imagine several situations where it would not have been an option,for those living at a root local for instance. My question was did anyone do this and what were the results. It appears that Just Thinking did she posted:
My best guess is that our bc was a twit and feared anyone who could think faster than he could. (That was a lot of people, btw) When he would call for it, I would have questions for him he couldn't answer. He was too embarrassed to keep calling our lc with questions and just "forgot" about us, I suppose.
The bc (same twit above) saw it and jumped on her for "living in filth." When I found about it after twig one day, I asked if we could come to his house afterwards to show her an example of how she should keep her place. He freaked! He was scared because I had seen his house. It was actually less organized than hers. :-)
Home inspections stopped.
That was my point in part it looks as though it did work in her situation also. There are many things that we have no control over in situations like this as someone once said we can't keep from being kicked but we can determine the direction we go in . Obviously we can not determine what the Way will do from a organizational standpoint ie: whether they kick you out of a program or fellowship and such but if we can leave feeling better about ourselves I think that the afterlife goes a little easier. My experiance in speaking with others has been that those who spoke up said what they had to say have adjusted to life after the way a little better than those who did not. Much like leaving a job as opposed to being fired most people feel differently.
As I said it was not about placing judgement or worth on either group of people but learning what did and did not work and why.
Anyone in the way pretty much knows that politics in the Way pretty much stopped anyone that resembled Ozzie & Harriet from being in a leadership position so no I did not deal with those type people and you know I live 45 min from a root location Emporia and those were the leaders we delt with Campus leaders ,Limb leaders, Corps Leaders hardly Mayberry come on.
And fairy tales? I don't know what goes on in the movie world but I think it is hardly reality.
What the inner circle believed is irrelevant lots of people think they are untouchable they find out different when they are brought down low. Ask Craig if he feels untouchable about now.
Yes I do think SOME of the abuse was /is manageble some is/was not.The scripture does say a soft answer turns away wrath. Just thinking said I think they feared questions they could not answer and people that could think faster than they could. I agree! So if we can learn from that and help those still in to understand and do that maybe a few more,if only one, will leave with their dignity intact. A worthy Pursuit?
[This message was edited by WhiteDove on March 16, 2004 at 14:08.]
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Goey
I don't think you can predict how any given leader will react when/if someome decides to end their relationship with TWI.
Leaving with your dignity intact is a nice goal, but I wouldn't count on it actually happening. Take the "high-road" if possible, if it is not possible then just take one that will get you out - hopefully sooner than later.
But, like the Paul Simon song goes, "There must be 50 ways leave your lover".
50 Ways To Leave Your Lover
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Dot Matrix
WD
Sorry you did not like my post, I did not like yours either. Doesn't mean I do not like you.
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johniam
Dot: Let me edit part of your post here a second...
And here is an example of a TRUE story:
Corps Leader and WOW were WOW together and then remained roommates for two more years. This story is on the third year of being roommates. I will refer to her as a WOW but this is actually two years after she did her WOW commitment.
Devil spirit(s) to WOW:
"I don’t think you should go out with Mark."
WOW
"I like him and he has been going to twig for over a year and I am going with him."
Spirit:
"I think you have a defiant spirit."
WOW
"Chapter and verse?"
Spirit:
"I am you leader, I get revelation for your life."
WOW
"God, would tell me first."
Wow walks away and goes into the bathroom to get away from it all.
Leader follows her into the bathroom and blocks the doorway. Spirit then says, "I think we need to sing a hymn; devil spirits hate God's music let's sing."
WOW
"I do not want to sing."
Spirit starts to sing
WOW tried to leave bathroom
WOW
"Let me out of here."
Spirit
"No, you are having devil problems." (how true)
Wow was stuck in bathroom for over 30 minutes (may have been an hour I forget now)crying and trying to leave.
WOW escapes. Spirit yells, "If you do not listen to me, you will marry him and have retarded children."
WOW runs down the street and flags down a passing motorist. Motorist drives WOW to where I work. WOW is sobbing and tells me all sorts of things. She begs me to help her escape the WAY home. Every time she had tried to leave this woman had done these things to her.
WOW is a very good and decent person. She manifested the fruits of the spirit. I believe her.
I hide the woman out.
Wow then tells us how she used to wear make-up and cute little clothes. How the corps leader pushed her into the bathroom and washed the make-up off her face. Called her a whore when she wore cute things and kept her like a scary husband frightens a wife into staying. When WOW went to “above leadership”, that “above leader” called in the "corps leader" (WOW's roommate) who convinced these (5-sense knowledge men) that the WOW had devils.
(OK, the above paragraph is straight from PFAL; if a devil spirit says jump, a lesser devil spirit doesn't ask how high, he jumps. So the "corps leader" must have had a bigger spirit than the "above leadership")
The leadership then turns on WOW telling her she must listen to “leader” for her own spiritual well being.... She begged me to believe her and I did. There was always something creepy about her “leader” roommate.
I call a corps sister of mine (the wife of an area leader) and we stash WOW.
Wife does not tell her husband as we know husband has a blank allegiance to his superiors and is severely uncool.
My corps sister and I prayed and we knew we could tell nobody what was happening.
There! Make sense now?
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johniam
Catcup: Did you ever finish that paper you were going to write about the way caste system?
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krys
Insurgent - at least you had the decency to call first.
One of my tc's used to come over at her pleasure and if the door was unlocked, walk right in and sit in my kitchen.
One day, I was collecting closthes from the dryer, when I came upstairs she wanted to know why my living room floor was cluttered with "all those paper things" and why wasn't I picking them up?
I gave her an answer - stupid me! I told her the truth, I was grading student poster projects on the floor because they were too big to fit on a table when the drier buzzed and I wanted to fold the laundry before it wrinkled.
I got a lecture about not finishing one task before starting another. I was going to introduce her to the term "multitasking" but thought better of it and put on the coffee instead.
We sat chatting while I folded laundry and put the basket on the stairs to bring up next trip. (there was no offer of help) I asked her to bring her coffee into the living room so I could finish my maps...she came...told me I assigned too much work to my students....and suggested I should manage things better by.....&....&.....etc. I nodded politely because I didn't want another arguement.
I didn't realize that this was an "inspection". I'd never heard of that....until several months later when someone mentioned that I fold men't tee shirts wrong. It clicked immediately but I remained silent because by this time I was aware of spy tactics on others.
At least when you announce home inspections, you know what's going on. This bunch just did it on the sneak...and wrote stuff down.
*************************************
You know how some people stretch their arm on top of a sofa when relaxing? I never thought about it twice until one nite, there was a "tape night" at my house. Somebody accidentally dropped a notebook behind the sofa, and when I went to get coffee - and - ready...they pulled out the coffee table and sofa to get the notebook. The assistant tc looked at the tc in amazement and said "the vent's clean!" (we had hot air heat, and the return vent was behind the sofa)
It took a long time for me to get over this, and I never really did. Once I realized the treachery I vowed to never be unprepared in any area again. It drove me crazy, but I kept the vow. I should have tossed the lot of them out...but keeping God in my life was too important to me and I was so brainwashed that He would leave me instantly, that I never dared to do that.
I wish I had done otherwise.
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WhiteDove
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WhiteDove
Dignity- Bob Dylan
Fat man lookin' in a blade of steel
Thin man lookin' at his last meal
Hollow man lookin' in a cottonfield
For dignity
Wise man lookin' in a blade of grass
Young man lookin' in the shadows that pass
Poor man lookin' through painted glass
For dignity
Somebody got murdered on New Year's Eve
Somebody said dignity was the first to leave
I went into the city, went into the town
Went into the land of the midnight sun
Searchin' high, searchin' low
Searchin' everywhere I know
Askin' the cops wherever I go
Have you seen dignity?
Blind man breakin' out of a trance
Puts both his hands in the pockets of chance
Hopin' to find one circumstance
Of dignity
I went to the wedding of Mary-lou
She said ? don't want nobody see me talkin' to you?BR>Said she could get killed if she told me what she knew
About dignity
I went down where the vultures feed
I would've got deeper, but there wasn't any need
Heard the tongues of angels and the tongues of men
Wasn't any difference to me
Chilly wind sharp as a razor blade
House on fire, debts unpaid
Gonna stand at the window, gonna ask the maid
Have you seen dignity?
Drinkin' man listens to the voice he hears
In a crowded room full of covered up mirrors
Lookin' into the lost forgotten years
For dignity
Met Prince Phillip at the home of the blues
Said he'd give me information if his name wasn't used
He wanted money up front, said he was abused
By dignity
Footprints runnin' cross the silver sand
Steps goin' down into tattoo land
I met the sons of darkness and the sons of light
In the bordertowns of despair
Got no place to fade, got no coat
I'm on the rollin' river in a jerkin' boat
Tryin' to read a note somebody wrote
About dignity
Sick man lookin' for the doctor's cure
Lookin' at his hands for the lines that were
And into every masterpiece of literature
for dignity
Englishman stranded in the blackheart wind
Combin' his hair back, his future looks thin
Bites the bullet and he looks within
For dignity
Someone showed me a picture and I just laughed
Dignity never been photographed
I went into the red, went into the black
Into the valley of dry bone dreams
So many roads, so much at stake
So many dead ends, I'm at the edge of the lake
Sometimes I wonder what it's gonna take
To find dignity
Copyright © 1991 Special Rider Music
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WhiteDove
Dot It was not your post I did not like. It was the Ozzie & Harriet & Mayberry comments You know that was not true it was a low blow and you are better than that.
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