Seems after all these years you only remember the slap. Probably because you did nothing to really warrant such a demeaning act....Your mind has convinced you that it must have been deserved....this is a survival mechanism...
Corporal punishment is never a solution. If a child is talking back, adults would do a much better service to the child by finding out why and talking through those feelings. Not to teach them they are bad and their feelings are bad...
Adults hit because they want control...to break the spirit of a willfull child gives them the feeling that they can control the future of the young...
You say these people who supervised my son while I was in FWC were my brothers and sisters in Christ and I would have trusted them to do the right thing???
Dude, I could fertilize a whole organic farm with that bull****! Some I could, some I couldn't. Staff - no way!
See that is the ONLY method - beat that child, smite him, thump him, punch him, thrash him that was used there. The whole darn point, is there is more than one way to discipline as in teach, instruct or train, a child than beating them, even a little tap with a tiny delicate wooden spoon (which never happened by the way, it was a big nasty wooden spoon).
And another thing - if some nun or teacher or WC Coordinator hauled off and punched my kid in the face and I heard about it - I might just have to get violent. And I'm a nice person. But NO ONE profits from that sort of behavior except the sadist who's throwing the punches.
And Cool, I believe you all the way. There was a lot of really nasty stuff that went on and got swept under the carpet.
This thread has NOTHING to do with our belief in proverbs....
In THIS thread.....we are TALKING about sexual abuse...physical abuse and mental abuse...ALL of which happened in twi to these children....
Whether or not the spoon is biblical or not as NOTHING to do with the fact that it was used often visciously....
VPW DID know about it....DID try to cover it up...how the hell would the perverts know to break into cw`s house to steal the evidence if someone didn`t TELL them vp`s lcm`s and donna`s letters were in there eh?? Gotta get rid of the evidence lest t he ministry look bad....
You don`t have kids ....you didn`t see abuse....you have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to attack the credability of the posters......
What is it oldies? what is YOUR vested interest in covering for these criminals..eh?
Oldies, you didn't really answer my question, you sort of curved around it. I asked very direct point blank questions.
I'll post them again for you in case you need another look.......
"What is your take on a branch coordinator with two children who spent 20 years on the Indianna Campus telling a parent to give a two year old a good hard wack with a wooden spoon if he is not still and quiet during fellowship?
What is your take on a twig coordinator who would tell a mother, the bruises left on her two year old by his father is "what it takes to get the child's attention?"
Is it ok to leave bruises on a child by hitting him/her with a spoon?"
If you can't answer them I'll be left with the assumption that you are afraid to look at them and answer them honestly. I can see no other reason why you wouldn't.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
humph, guffaw, snort....OM I just knew that you didn't have kids...humph, guffaw, snort!!!
As rascal said before as I say now never ever come near my children, you may have a wild woman on your hands and you wouldn't want to be around that.
You said before that it only happened in the way corps. I know for a fact that it happened outside of the way corps also with people that was considered TL's and just the leaves. So don't give me that bull**** that it only happened in the way corps.
I really can't understand why you defend twi so much on this abuse stuff. Unless you were a part of it yourself or your still part of twi.
Its better to be ignorant than stupid!!!
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
[This message was edited by vickles on February 24, 2004 at 20:22.]
OM--bet you do not have kids, nor had them while in twi...so you REALLy know everything that went on, do ya??? once again, you were a sheltered little boy who saw nothing because it never even entered your head that it could go on. You have a strange naivete that seems to invest you with some major-league blinders...you will never get it, om--it's not in ya....sorry
I gotta tell you, there was more than one person I met in the Corps, that made me think, "How the heck did that person ever qualify to get here?" The answer is, people were NOT screened, even though they were supposed to be. If they took the prerequisite classes, and came up with the payment, they were "leadership material." There were some wonderful, godly people there. AND there were some who should have never been trusted with a wooden spoon.
I "have no friends" when it comes to the well-being of my kids! Compare that with what VPW declared, and you are at the heart of the difference between us.
A BOY stole a lesson-book from one of his schoolfellows and took it home to his Mother. She not only abstained from beating him,
but encouraged him. He next time stole a cloak and brought it to her, and she again commended him. The Youth, advanced to
adulthood, proceeded to steal things of still greater value. At last he was caught in the very act, and having his hands bound
behind him, was led away to the place of public execution. His Mother followed in the crowd and violently beat her breast in
sorrow, whereupon the young man said, "I wish to say something to my Mother in her ear." She came close to him, and he quickly
seized her ear with his teeth and bit it off. The Mother upbraided him as an unnatural child, whereon he replied, "Ah! if you had beaten me when I first stole and brought to you that lesson-book, I should not have come to this, nor have been thus led to a disgraceful death."
- an Aesop's Fable translated by George Fyler Townsend
A BOY stole a lesson-book from one of his schoolfellows and took it home to his Mother. She not only abstained from beating him,
but encouraged him. He next time stole a cloak and brought it to her, and she again commended him. The Youth, advanced to
adulthood, proceeded to steal things of still greater value. At last he was caught in the very act, and having his hands bound
behind him, was led away to the place of public execution. His Mother followed in the crowd and violently beat her breast in
sorrow, whereupon the young man said, "I wish to say something to my Mother in her ear." She came close to him, and he quickly
seized her ear with his teeth and bit it off. The Mother upbraided him as an unnatural child, whereon he replied, "Ah! if you had beaten me when I first stole and brought to you that lesson-book, I should not have come to this, nor have been thus led to a disgraceful death."
- an Aesop's Fable translated by George Fyler Townsend
Good one, OM!
You proved that what a child is encouraged to do, he/she will do.
quote:Good one, OM! You proved that what a child is encouraged to do, he/she will do. A child lives what he/she learns.
Coolwaters, had the child been beaten by the mother, chances are he wouldn't have stolen further, and wouldn't have subsequently bitten off her ear.
Aesop was a child abuser too, eh?
OM, OM, OM! You can come to the most odd conclusions!
That fable clearly and repeatedly states that the mother encouraged and commended the child for stealing.
Now if the mother had not encouraged and commended the child but, instead, had taken the child before the teacher (in front of the other students, maybe) to return the book, apoligize AND to make restitution with interest...and the child continued to steal...and the mother continued to not beat the child but find other ways to handle the situation...
Then and only then could one consider the idea that not beating the child was the possible root of the problem.
Is it really that difficult for you to grasp such simple logic? I don't think so, really. I think you say things you don't even know you're saying...out of rote...out of need to avoid admitting that what happened to you should not have happened...and that you learned nothing but hard-heartedness and cruelty.
How you don't see these things is amazing to me...because these things are so very obvious in nearly every post you post.
quote:Now if the mother had not encouraged and commended the child but, instead, had taken the child before the teacher (in front of the other students, maybe) to return the book, apoligize AND to make restitution with interest...and the child continued to steal...and the mother continued to not beat the child but find other ways to handle the situation...
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Catcup
I, too am new to this particular thread. I spent several hours this morning looking through it. While I was never a part of any "initiation" ceremony (tongue in cheek or otherwise) that Evan describ
karmicdebt
Seems after all these years you only remember the slap. Probably because you did nothing to really warrant such a demeaning act....Your mind has convinced you that it must have been deserved....this is a survival mechanism...
Corporal punishment is never a solution. If a child is talking back, adults would do a much better service to the child by finding out why and talking through those feelings. Not to teach them they are bad and their feelings are bad...
Adults hit because they want control...to break the spirit of a willfull child gives them the feeling that they can control the future of the young...
What a world, what a world...
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oldiesman
Coolwaters,
I gave my two cents previously on that. I don't think the Wierwille's (either VPW or DEW) would have ever condoned it.
I think one of the differences between you and me is you look on those guys and see monsters; I look and see people.
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CoolWaters
Oh...
Well...
You're better than I am...
Especially when it comes to knowing what I think...
Guess you showed me, huh?
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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Watered Garden
OM,
You say these people who supervised my son while I was in FWC were my brothers and sisters in Christ and I would have trusted them to do the right thing???
Dude, I could fertilize a whole organic farm with that bull****! Some I could, some I couldn't. Staff - no way!
See that is the ONLY method - beat that child, smite him, thump him, punch him, thrash him that was used there. The whole darn point, is there is more than one way to discipline as in teach, instruct or train, a child than beating them, even a little tap with a tiny delicate wooden spoon (which never happened by the way, it was a big nasty wooden spoon).
And another thing - if some nun or teacher or WC Coordinator hauled off and punched my kid in the face and I heard about it - I might just have to get violent. And I'm a nice person. But NO ONE profits from that sort of behavior except the sadist who's throwing the punches.
And Cool, I believe you all the way. There was a lot of really nasty stuff that went on and got swept under the carpet.
WG
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Tom Strange
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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oldiesman
I think you folks just don't believe Proverbs. Period.
I believe those words are just as much revelation as anyplace else in the bible.
more on the rod
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CoolWaters
OK...great...fine...dandy...your beliefs are yours...mine are mine...but just don't come anywhere near any of my offspring.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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rascal
This thread has NOTHING to do with our belief in proverbs....
In THIS thread.....we are TALKING about sexual abuse...physical abuse and mental abuse...ALL of which happened in twi to these children....
Whether or not the spoon is biblical or not as NOTHING to do with the fact that it was used often visciously....
VPW DID know about it....DID try to cover it up...how the hell would the perverts know to break into cw`s house to steal the evidence if someone didn`t TELL them vp`s lcm`s and donna`s letters were in there eh?? Gotta get rid of the evidence lest t he ministry look bad....
You don`t have kids ....you didn`t see abuse....you have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to attack the credability of the posters......
What is it oldies? what is YOUR vested interest in covering for these criminals..eh?
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excathedra
♥
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Abigail
Oldies, you didn't really answer my question, you sort of curved around it. I asked very direct point blank questions.
I'll post them again for you in case you need another look.......
"What is your take on a branch coordinator with two children who spent 20 years on the Indianna Campus telling a parent to give a two year old a good hard wack with a wooden spoon if he is not still and quiet during fellowship?
What is your take on a twig coordinator who would tell a mother, the bruises left on her two year old by his father is "what it takes to get the child's attention?"
Is it ok to leave bruises on a child by hitting him/her with a spoon?"
If you can't answer them I'll be left with the assumption that you are afraid to look at them and answer them honestly. I can see no other reason why you wouldn't.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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vickles
humph, guffaw, snort....OM I just knew that you didn't have kids...humph, guffaw, snort!!!
As rascal said before as I say now never ever come near my children, you may have a wild woman on your hands and you wouldn't want to be around that.
You said before that it only happened in the way corps. I know for a fact that it happened outside of the way corps also with people that was considered TL's and just the leaves. So don't give me that bull**** that it only happened in the way corps.
I really can't understand why you defend twi so much on this abuse stuff. Unless you were a part of it yourself or your still part of twi.
Its better to be ignorant than stupid!!!
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
[This message was edited by vickles on February 24, 2004 at 20:22.]
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alfakat
look, look, I'm repeatin myself--still fits, don't it, OM.....
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vickles
wow alfie, didn't even see your post. Right on!!!!!
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
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shazdancer
Oldies,
I gotta tell you, there was more than one person I met in the Corps, that made me think, "How the heck did that person ever qualify to get here?" The answer is, people were NOT screened, even though they were supposed to be. If they took the prerequisite classes, and came up with the payment, they were "leadership material." There were some wonderful, godly people there. AND there were some who should have never been trusted with a wooden spoon.
I "have no friends" when it comes to the well-being of my kids! Compare that with what VPW declared, and you are at the heart of the difference between us.
Shaz
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excathedra
you ever "beat" a child, you better watch out
and oldiesman, as far as what you "think" wierwille would condone or not....
ohman i feel for you
♥
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excathedra
one more thing
i think you better talk to god. period.♥
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excathedra
i mean more like ask him for love and understanding in your heart
♥
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excathedra
awwwww forget what i said, i sound like a religious wayfer freak
♥
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oldiesman
"The Thief And His Mother"
The Thief and His Mother
A BOY stole a lesson-book from one of his schoolfellows and took it home to his Mother. She not only abstained from beating him,
but encouraged him. He next time stole a cloak and brought it to her, and she again commended him. The Youth, advanced to
adulthood, proceeded to steal things of still greater value. At last he was caught in the very act, and having his hands bound
behind him, was led away to the place of public execution. His Mother followed in the crowd and violently beat her breast in
sorrow, whereupon the young man said, "I wish to say something to my Mother in her ear." She came close to him, and he quickly
seized her ear with his teeth and bit it off. The Mother upbraided him as an unnatural child, whereon he replied, "Ah! if you had beaten me when I first stole and brought to you that lesson-book, I should not have come to this, nor have been thus led to a disgraceful death."
- an Aesop's Fable translated by George Fyler Townsend
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CoolWaters
Good one, OM!
You proved that what a child is encouraged to do, he/she will do.
A child lives what he/she learns.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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oldiesman
Coolwaters, had the child been beaten by the mother, chances are he wouldn't have stolen further, and wouldn't have subsequently bitten off her ear.
Aesop was a child abuser too, eh?
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excathedra
.
♥
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CoolWaters
OM, OM, OM! You can come to the most odd conclusions!
That fable clearly and repeatedly states that the mother encouraged and commended the child for stealing.
Now if the mother had not encouraged and commended the child but, instead, had taken the child before the teacher (in front of the other students, maybe) to return the book, apoligize AND to make restitution with interest...and the child continued to steal...and the mother continued to not beat the child but find other ways to handle the situation...
Then and only then could one consider the idea that not beating the child was the possible root of the problem.
Is it really that difficult for you to grasp such simple logic? I don't think so, really. I think you say things you don't even know you're saying...out of rote...out of need to avoid admitting that what happened to you should not have happened...and that you learned nothing but hard-heartedness and cruelty.
How you don't see these things is amazing to me...because these things are so very obvious in nearly every post you post.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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oldiesman
LMAO
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