"Initiation into the Inner Sanctum of The Way". That was the name of the event. It was an early summer school stay for me...perhaps '71, maybe '73 or 4.
It was done between the pond & the road, same area as the ROA '71 site. a campfire was blazing. As I walked up, several black robed 7 hooded characters pointed silently with bony finger toward the campfire. Creepy. A group of us assembled, maybe 15 or 20 or so, around the fire, ringed by a line of black robed & hooded characters. Then Wierwille's arrival was announced by creepy chanting, I'm guessing in Latin. He was garbed like the others. He had stuff in his pockets he would grab and throw on the fire that would couse a big poof of flame. You get the picture. I can't remember what he was talking about, in a campily sinister voice. The hooded guards compelled the initiates to bow to 'the wizard'. Then he administered "the sacrement", communion-wafer smile, to aeach participant. It turned out to be some foul Indian horseradish-like root substance that burned like the fires of hell. My mouth was painfully scorched for 3 days.
That's what I can remember. Pretty wierd cult. I didn't frink the kool-ade, though.
I don't doubt your _memories_ of your experiences at Gunnison, but I do doubt their veracity. You seem to have a lot of REALLY serious issues with your time in WayWorld - as all of us can certainly understand, but, regardless of what actually happened to you there, I concur with the other posters who've suggested that seeking out a professional counselor would be far more helpful (and needful) than posting here at GS.
As I've said before and will say again and hope it isn't brought up again, I have a therapist, a wonderful one. The ONLY reason I posted here was for information that she does not have, as she was never a member of the way. That is all.
I am genuinely sorry for what you are dealing with. But I don't understand a few things. -->
You said raped at Camp Gunnison when you were seven possibly until you were twelve. Is this saying you were raped at CG over that period of time? Or it began at seven and continued until you were twelve in some other location? You see later on you stated...
Well, it happened over one weekend. It's a bit hard to stop when it happens like that, and it's hard to stop when it's being made a secret.
Uh, the FIRST incident, which I said happened when I was seven, was over that weekend. The rest happened at other times, as I have stated that I was never a member of the Way, so I would never have been continuously there.
quote:They tried to intimidate me by pretending that they were going to run me over. They've taken my stuff, and because I tend to lose things, I would, at first, think it was just me...until my things were returned to me only days later, neatly lined up under a car seat in a newly cleaned car that had previously been devoid of any possessions.
If they wanted you to stop doing something I think they would do it differently. And this may be a good time to tell you that you now have a file started at HQ. Any details you have stated are in fact being chased down for authenticity. Not to scare you but to inform you that you are not in play-land here. For your protection and consideration only, not to induce fear in you.
Really? From your condescending language, it would seem that the intent is to induce fear, but I'm not scared, nor am I playing. What I am concerned about is that you said a file was started at HQ. What HQ would this be? The Way HQ? If so, I'm concerned about your contact with them. Also, does EVERY member of the Way act in the same way? Do they all attempt to intimidate people in the exact SAME way, because that is the only way I can see your claim that they would do things differently to hold any legitimacy.
quote:Sometimes, people just need to talk, they need to say the things that happened. That is what support sites are for, so it would be good if you tried to be more like one. I needed support. Instead, I was victimized. I hope you all feel real good about yourselves.
Why did you not say this coming in? You have been registered for nearly 2 years. I'm going to assume that you have read us to some degree because you know of the abuse stories we have spoken of here. So did you not consider it may be a good thing to just start by saying hi? You would have seen how most go about joining in here. Leading me to another aspect of this. Have you then not also observed when _"those who would desire to make us appear as fools"_ came cruising through? You would have seen it if reading us between your registration and present date.
I have not taken a lot of time to look at those who would be so stupid. I've seen a few stories here, but I've also seen many in library journals and elsewhere on the web. You are not the only site dedicated to life inside or outside the Way, whichever way be the case, as it seems suspiciously like some of you are still members, and as for those who tell me to check with the Way HQ, why would I have any reason whatsoever to believe the word of such "upstanding" citizens?
In addition to what I've been posting, the reason I did not post from the time that I registered until a few days ago was because I went through a period where I just didn't want to talk about what was happening, mostly because people couldn't stomach it. If I really was a sicko, I would have written something then. I had no intention of "connecting" with people here. Thus, there is no reason for me to just say hi and introduce myself. What I'm concerned with now is information. That is all. I don't feel safe where I am, and I believe it may be because of the Way.
Also, for those of you who were grossed out by what I wrote, I apologize for ruining your lunch or whatever. I have to wonder why someone would eat lunch while reading stuff in a child abuse forum. Any mention of child abuse turns my stomach, so I would never eat lunch, breakfast, or anything else while reading things in this forum. I left out quite a bit of detail. I wrote what I did for a specific reason, and I have stated that reason and will not do so again.
Well, waysurvivor, there are some things in your initial post that don't seem to quite add up. I'm not calling you a liar, but merely stating that this could be a reason for others having done so.
Perhaps some of your experiences happened in a place other than Gunnison, but with your father - maybe at his house, or the house of one of his friends.
It is not uncommon for memories to cross in this fashion, especially with such traumatizing experiences.
That would account for the things that didn't quite fit with what people know about Gunnison.
Also, there ARE a few innies that post at Greasespot. The majority here are out, but there are some that for personal reasons are still in. And many that are out still haven't yet divested themselves of all of their waybrain.
It's funny, but I recall hearing back in '82 that 20/20 (or 60 Minutes? - one of those darn TV news mags) ran a feature on cults, which recounted an ex-way person's experience of folks wearing black robes and chanting...
naturally I thought it was laughable nonsense at the time, but hearing waysurvivor's and now Evan's recollections,...whoa.
Does anyone else here recall this news story?
As I mentioned before, I had only heard an audio-cassette excerpt of it back in '82.
If memory is serving me correctly, the episode of the black robes and the chanting were even dramatically re-created in the program.
It would be interesting to track that show down now.
Perhaps the "source" they used was an ex-way person who went to the same meeting as Evan?
OK, before this one gets too out of hand, with people imagining some sort of dark and evil Satanic rite, I'll describe everything I can remember about my experience with the summer school/Way Corps "initiation."
Besides experiencing the "initiation" myself, I knew lots of people who had this prank pulled on them at various times, and none of them ever took it as a serious "ritual" or claimed to have been genuinely frightened by it until now, in this thread.
I'm not saying this to defend twi or any of its leaders. I'm saying it because I think it's important to stick to the facts if our words about the real abuses, of which there were plenty, are going to have any credibility.
This initiation "ritual" was a joke. At least as it was presented to us at Rome City, there was no way to interpret it as anything BUT a joke, from start to finish. It reminded me of a summer camp prank, only those on the receiving end were all adults. This was not something children participated in.
It started out with an announcement during the day, that there was going to be a campfire out on "Uncle Harry Hill" (a small hill on the Rome City campus). The announcement was delivered in such a tongue-in-cheek way that you couldn't help but know some hilarity was going to ensue later that night.
Whoever announced it (I think it was VPW, but it might have been Del Duncan--can't remember for sure. Both were there and both participated.) The announcement was delivered in a silly, melodramatic way, accompanied by snickers from the "elder Corps" and summer school "vets."
We gathered out on the hill around the campfire, and out of the shadows came Gary C. of the Research Dept., who happened to be there teaching a class, Del Duncan, and VPW, in robes. They weren't all wearing black robes. I think two of them had on their clergy robes and one, if I recall correctly, was wearing a makeshift robe made of burlap.
They were all three trying to act and sound serious, but they were suppressing laughter. I vaguely recall that they were going around the campfire chanting, and I do remember that they were still trying to keep from laughing. Those of us sitting around the campfire were cackling, because they all looked so silly. (Knowing VP's authoritarian bent, I'm quite sure if this had been some sort of dark, secret ritual for real, our a$$es would have been grass for laughing. Instead, he was laughing along with us.
They handed each of us a tiny piece of Johnny Jump-Up root...it's a plant that grows wild in the Midwest (and maybe all over the U.S., for all I know, but I remember it being in the woods in Ohio as I was growing up). At an appointed time, they said we were to chew up the little morsel and swallow it. And yes, it was hot--on par with a jalapeno peppter, I'd say, but it was a very small piece. We were told that we would now be "officially" members of the Way Corps and that we were sworn to secrecy (more snickers barely hidden) about the initiation.
The perpetrators of the hoax just waited to see the look of surprise on people's faces when they bit into the piece of root and then broke into peals of laughter when they saw the faces we were making.
No one said "gotcha," per se, but that was the drift of the close of the "ceremony."
We could argue, I suppose, about how "mean" it was for those three men to trick us like that, but most of the people I talked to walking back to the building thought it was very funny. Gary C, being the ostensibly serious guy that he was, at least to us students who didn't know him well and only saw him in that light, was particularly hilarious trying to look so ominous.
The hoaxers told us not to drink water afterward, because it would just spread the oil from the root and make the hot taste linger. Someone (probably someone used to eating hot peppers) told me and my friends to eat some bread. We did, and the hot sensation went away pretty quickly.
I'm surprised that anyone could have taken this seriously. (But honestly, I can't tell if Evan is serious about how scary it was or if he's just being humorous.) Some people got ticked off about getting tricked into eating something hot without expecting it, but most of the people I knew thought it was a hoot.
There was a certain campy tongue in cheekness to the proceedings but they were damn serious about its secrecy.
All other details I told are just as I remember them. Including robed guys compelling us to bow! And they were definitely in black hooded robes, the kind with rope belts...the whole getup. They tried hard to make it creepy and campy at the same time...
Well, waysurvivor, there are some things in your initial post that don't seem to quite add up. I'm not calling you a liar, but merely stating that this could be a reason for others having done so.
Perhaps some of your experiences happened in a place other than Gunnison, but with your father - maybe at his house, or the house of one of his friends.
It is not uncommon for memories to cross in this fashion, especially with such traumatizing experiences.
That would account for the things that didn't quite fit with what people know about Gunnison.
Also, there ARE a few innies that post at Greasespot. The majority here are out, but there are some that for personal reasons are still in. And many that are out still haven't yet divested themselves of all of their waybrain.
Please tell me what it is you don't think adds up, and I will do my best to clear it up. Obviously, some people have already added POVs that support what I said. Please let me know anything else that you don't feel adds up. Also, many of my memories were in no way done in an apartment. There were a lot of people, and that was the only group he was a member of. My mother found out that he took us there that weekend, and many of my problems started around that time.
What I mean when I say that it couldn't have been done in an apartment is that there were at least two levels, and the place was very large. There was concrete in part of the area. To this day, I tend to fall asleep if I'm in an area with concrete. Weird, but true.
Also, I think someone said something about it being weird that I had my own room. I did not have my own room. It was a room that I shared with both my father and sister. Also, the movie room was just what I meant it to sound like, a room that we watched television and movies in. I just thought that maybe, from some of the comments, that someone may have thought I meant some kind of studio to make movies. Not what I meant.
Dunkings in water could have been done in a bathtub or sink and is a common thing in religious cults. I don't have memories of this in particular, but I can't stand water on my face, and that is common with people who have had this happen.
waysurvivor, I apologize for offending you, it was not my intent. As well I did you a disservice in assuming you knew much more about twi than you do. That aided in my delivery to you no doubt.
I am no longer in twi, have been out not a long time, was in a bit under 20 years.
There are those of us here who have histories important enough to twi for them to monitor what we offer here. That process is overseen by a gsc poster by the name of John Linder. He is in charge of security at TWI's HQ. Some of us have knowledge of our file with them. They have not hidden it from us. Background for....
Your not being a part of twi does not negate their interest in you for your parent/parents sake. Thus based on what you gave us here they would deem your story as one that could bring about no good for them.
I respect how you referred to ones I stated "those who would desire to make us appear as fools", with "who would be so stupid". That said something about you, thank you for that.
If you still want info from us then ask what you want. Even if you don't agree with how some of us responded, you have seen a ready answer is amongst these folks.
But I still have one question of you please. If the first post you do is rated NC-17, then what did you expect of us? Not to incite anger, an honest question of you.
WEll, this is my first post on this thread, but I have gone back to read it from the first post.
Waysurvivor, I don't know how else to say it other than straight out, I don't believe a word you are saying. I think YOU THINK you are telling the truth, but I don't believe it IS the actual factual truth surrounding your situation.
I was in twi for 28 years, I got in when I was 14. I lived and worked at all levels of the "way tree," in lots of states and at Gunnison, Emporia and Headquarters.
I am no fan of twi, I don't often stick up for them on any level, but your story makes me draw the line. I know there were all sorts of individual child abuse cases, some terrible, like related by Mo and Coolwaters, BUT, overall, twi was made up of people...just like me, LindyHopper, Linda Z, Catcup, TheEvan, Jim, etc. The MAJORITY of twi followers were wonderful, idiotic dufusses that would never dream of abusing a child.
There is NO WAY, NO WAY ON EARTH that what you are perceiving as buried memories are factually based, at least, NOT at Camp Gunnison (And God knows I HATE THAT PLACE) or any other root location.
I hope you are seeking therapy, maybe ptsd or some other specialty, obviously you have been terribly scarred by something----and that is completely true and real, and is something you are experiencing. I am not calling you a liar, I just think your memories are jumbled.
For the rest of you posters.....look, I hardly ever stick up for twi but I just don't believe these particular memories are true, and we do a tremendous disservice to people trying to leave twi, by not sticking to what we personally know to be true.
CoolWaters----you jumped all over Jim earlier. I have known him almost all of my life. He is a good man, and has experienced at least as much as you have at the hands of twi. I agree with him, child abuse was the EXCEPTION. But that doesn't mean IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, and it certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen to you or your loved ones or any number of other people.
I know for a fact that MOST of the *top* (what ever that means) did not tolerate or promote child abuse, at least sexual or physical (as in BEATING) abuse. I distinctly remember being in one meeting of region coordinators, in which a guy that had been M&A in one state was trying to go thru wow counseling at the roa. One particular Region guy went BALLISTIC right then and there.....I fully expected to see this region guy try to beat the idiot to a pulp. I was present in a meeting with most of the region men in which they were all outraged that the guy had even figured out how to sneak back into a twig across the country.
Again, child abuse happened, and even though in most cases legal charges can't be filed, those that harmed our precious children will face a greater judge, I guess that can be our only consolation.
waysurvivor, I apologize for offending you, it was not my intent. As well I did you a disservice in assuming you knew much more about twi than you do. That aided in my delivery to you no doubt.
I am no longer in twi, have been out not a long time, was in a bit under 20 years.
There are those of us here who have histories important enough to twi for them to monitor what we offer here. That process is overseen by a gsc poster by the name of John Linder. He is in charge of security at TWI's HQ. Some of us have knowledge of our file with them. They have not hidden it from us. Background for....
Your not being a part of twi does not negate their interest in you for your parent/parents sake. Thus based on what you gave us here they would deem your story as one that could bring about no good for them.
I respect how you referred to ones I stated "those who would desire to make us appear as fools", with "who would be so stupid". That said something about you, thank you for that.
If you still want info from us then ask what you want. Even if you don't agree with how some of us responded, you have seen a ready answer is amongst these folks.
But I still have one question of you please. If the first post you do is rated NC-17, then what did you expect of us? Not to incite anger, an honest question of you.
I did not think of my post as NC-17. It was the truth, that is all I was thinking of it as. I guess I thought that this was a support group like others I have been in that are for sexual abuse survivors. It is something that you would regularly see there.
WEll, this is my first post on this thread, but I have gone back to read it from the first post.
Waysurvivor, I don't know how else to say it other than straight out, I don't believe a word you are saying. I think YOU THINK you are telling the truth, but I don't believe it IS the actual factual truth surrounding your situation.
I'm sorry if you don't believe a word I'm saying. I feel sorry for you. You are in denial about what goes on in the way. If child abuse is the exception to the rule, why is it listed right along with wife-swapping in cult journals? And if you don't believe me, then you are basically calling several other people here liars. If most of you are such nice citizens, ordinary people and such, why was wife-swapping so rampant? Why was sexual abuse and rape so rampant. There are a lot more stories out there than mine that detail sexual abuse in the way.
Radar, can you state FOR A FACT, PROOF and all, that what I have stated did not happen? I am the one with the memories, I am the one with the panic attacks, the depression, the dissociative tendencies, the inability to get close to people, the bitter anger at men. I have worked long and hard in my therapy, I've soaked up everything I can on sexual abuse and ritual abuse, and I've talked to a person (outside of this group), who was a member of the Way in Gunnison who has stated that what happened to me there did happen to kids. What did she get for talking to me? She got beat up, by Way members! You tend to talk in generalities, but didn't the Way, at that time, have well over 140,000 members? Can you honestly say, after hearing what I've said and hearing what others on this thread have said, that I'm lying, because I don't care what you say about not calling me a liar, you are calling me a liar! Simple as that. Don't twist words and try to make it appear that you are nicer than you are.
As for there bring "in" people in here, that doesn't sit well with me, and it doesn't sit well that so many people still seem to support the Way. I intend to give all of this information to my therapist so that she can present it at the ritual abuse conference.
And how many times do I have to say that I AM in therapy? How many?
Radar, can you honestly say that you think all of these people who say that they know that child abuse goes on are lying? Are you prepared to say that, because it seems like that is what you are alluding to, and that simply makes me think that you are confused. After all, you contradict yourself by saying that you don't believe that I was abused in the Way and then saying that it was the the "exception" though that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That is a contradiction within a contradiction, so which do you mean. Does it or doesn't it happen. BTW, unless you are an expert on recovered memories, don't even tell me that what I THINK is true isn't true. I'll stick with the real experts.
"I guess I thought that this was a support group like others I have been in that are for sexual abuse survivors. It is something that you would regularly see there."
Well waysurvivor, the group therapy I went to actually discouraged giving graphic details. In a private session it was fine but in open session it was not ok. That's MY experience not saying yours wasn't different. The reason for not getting down to the NC 17 details is because it's really disturbing to a group of people who are all adealing with their own issues. Also some of the people in groups that deal with abuse are very sick and might actually find these details exciting, which doesn't help anyone.
So, here in public I suggest that the details be kept to a somewhat tasteful roar.
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Catcup
I, too am new to this particular thread. I spent several hours this morning looking through it. While I was never a part of any "initiation" ceremony (tongue in cheek or otherwise) that Evan describ
Catcup
Damn, Ev!
I had no idea what was happening in Kipp Hall while I slept on the other side of the grounds!
I am still surprised by what went on in our Corps that I did not know about!
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TheEvan
"Initiation into the Inner Sanctum of The Way". That was the name of the event. It was an early summer school stay for me...perhaps '71, maybe '73 or 4.
It was done between the pond & the road, same area as the ROA '71 site. a campfire was blazing. As I walked up, several black robed 7 hooded characters pointed silently with bony finger toward the campfire. Creepy. A group of us assembled, maybe 15 or 20 or so, around the fire, ringed by a line of black robed & hooded characters. Then Wierwille's arrival was announced by creepy chanting, I'm guessing in Latin. He was garbed like the others. He had stuff in his pockets he would grab and throw on the fire that would couse a big poof of flame. You get the picture. I can't remember what he was talking about, in a campily sinister voice. The hooded guards compelled the initiates to bow to 'the wizard'. Then he administered "the sacrement", communion-wafer smile, to aeach participant. It turned out to be some foul Indian horseradish-like root substance that burned like the fires of hell. My mouth was painfully scorched for 3 days.
That's what I can remember. Pretty wierd cult. I didn't frink the kool-ade, though.
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sadie
Evan, were you told not to tell?
What was the Inner Sanctum duties?
In this part of the hills, the KKK and church choirs are the on ones who wear robes.
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TheEvan
Oh yeah, we were not to tell under severest possible penalties...
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excathedra
was this supposed to be like a ha ha funny thing, evan ?
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sadie
O.K. Evan, now I feel like a fool. Gives me an excuse to be dumber than dumb today
:o-->
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Catcup
Fer cryini' out loud!
I wish someone would have come out and frikkin told me in 1972 just what the hell I was gettin' myself into!
I'da run like hell!
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waysurvivor
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waysurvivor
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waysurvivor
In addition to what I've been posting, the reason I did not post from the time that I registered until a few days ago was because I went through a period where I just didn't want to talk about what was happening, mostly because people couldn't stomach it. If I really was a sicko, I would have written something then. I had no intention of "connecting" with people here. Thus, there is no reason for me to just say hi and introduce myself. What I'm concerned with now is information. That is all. I don't feel safe where I am, and I believe it may be because of the Way.
Also, for those of you who were grossed out by what I wrote, I apologize for ruining your lunch or whatever. I have to wonder why someone would eat lunch while reading stuff in a child abuse forum. Any mention of child abuse turns my stomach, so I would never eat lunch, breakfast, or anything else while reading things in this forum. I left out quite a bit of detail. I wrote what I did for a specific reason, and I have stated that reason and will not do so again.
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Steve!
Well, waysurvivor, there are some things in your initial post that don't seem to quite add up. I'm not calling you a liar, but merely stating that this could be a reason for others having done so.
Perhaps some of your experiences happened in a place other than Gunnison, but with your father - maybe at his house, or the house of one of his friends.
It is not uncommon for memories to cross in this fashion, especially with such traumatizing experiences.
That would account for the things that didn't quite fit with what people know about Gunnison.
Also, there ARE a few innies that post at Greasespot. The majority here are out, but there are some that for personal reasons are still in. And many that are out still haven't yet divested themselves of all of their waybrain.
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TheInvisibleDan
Coolwaters,
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
On black robes:
It's funny, but I recall hearing back in '82 that 20/20 (or 60 Minutes? - one of those darn TV news mags) ran a feature on cults, which recounted an ex-way person's experience of folks wearing black robes and chanting...
naturally I thought it was laughable nonsense at the time, but hearing waysurvivor's and now Evan's recollections,...whoa.
Does anyone else here recall this news story?
As I mentioned before, I had only heard an audio-cassette excerpt of it back in '82.
If memory is serving me correctly, the episode of the black robes and the chanting were even dramatically re-created in the program.
It would be interesting to track that show down now.
Perhaps the "source" they used was an ex-way person who went to the same meeting as Evan?
Danny
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Linda Z
OK, before this one gets too out of hand, with people imagining some sort of dark and evil Satanic rite, I'll describe everything I can remember about my experience with the summer school/Way Corps "initiation."
Besides experiencing the "initiation" myself, I knew lots of people who had this prank pulled on them at various times, and none of them ever took it as a serious "ritual" or claimed to have been genuinely frightened by it until now, in this thread.
I'm not saying this to defend twi or any of its leaders. I'm saying it because I think it's important to stick to the facts if our words about the real abuses, of which there were plenty, are going to have any credibility.
This initiation "ritual" was a joke. At least as it was presented to us at Rome City, there was no way to interpret it as anything BUT a joke, from start to finish. It reminded me of a summer camp prank, only those on the receiving end were all adults. This was not something children participated in.
It started out with an announcement during the day, that there was going to be a campfire out on "Uncle Harry Hill" (a small hill on the Rome City campus). The announcement was delivered in such a tongue-in-cheek way that you couldn't help but know some hilarity was going to ensue later that night.
Whoever announced it (I think it was VPW, but it might have been Del Duncan--can't remember for sure. Both were there and both participated.) The announcement was delivered in a silly, melodramatic way, accompanied by snickers from the "elder Corps" and summer school "vets."
We gathered out on the hill around the campfire, and out of the shadows came Gary C. of the Research Dept., who happened to be there teaching a class, Del Duncan, and VPW, in robes. They weren't all wearing black robes. I think two of them had on their clergy robes and one, if I recall correctly, was wearing a makeshift robe made of burlap.
They were all three trying to act and sound serious, but they were suppressing laughter. I vaguely recall that they were going around the campfire chanting, and I do remember that they were still trying to keep from laughing. Those of us sitting around the campfire were cackling, because they all looked so silly. (Knowing VP's authoritarian bent, I'm quite sure if this had been some sort of dark, secret ritual for real, our a$$es would have been grass for laughing. Instead, he was laughing along with us.
They handed each of us a tiny piece of Johnny Jump-Up root...it's a plant that grows wild in the Midwest (and maybe all over the U.S., for all I know, but I remember it being in the woods in Ohio as I was growing up). At an appointed time, they said we were to chew up the little morsel and swallow it. And yes, it was hot--on par with a jalapeno peppter, I'd say, but it was a very small piece. We were told that we would now be "officially" members of the Way Corps and that we were sworn to secrecy (more snickers barely hidden) about the initiation.
The perpetrators of the hoax just waited to see the look of surprise on people's faces when they bit into the piece of root and then broke into peals of laughter when they saw the faces we were making.
No one said "gotcha," per se, but that was the drift of the close of the "ceremony."
We could argue, I suppose, about how "mean" it was for those three men to trick us like that, but most of the people I talked to walking back to the building thought it was very funny. Gary C, being the ostensibly serious guy that he was, at least to us students who didn't know him well and only saw him in that light, was particularly hilarious trying to look so ominous.
The hoaxers told us not to drink water afterward, because it would just spread the oil from the root and make the hot taste linger. Someone (probably someone used to eating hot peppers) told me and my friends to eat some bread. We did, and the hot sensation went away pretty quickly.
I'm surprised that anyone could have taken this seriously. (But honestly, I can't tell if Evan is serious about how scary it was or if he's just being humorous.) Some people got ticked off about getting tricked into eating something hot without expecting it, but most of the people I knew thought it was a hoot.
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TheEvan
There was a certain campy tongue in cheekness to the proceedings but they were damn serious about its secrecy.
All other details I told are just as I remember them. Including robed guys compelling us to bow! And they were definitely in black hooded robes, the kind with rope belts...the whole getup. They tried hard to make it creepy and campy at the same time...
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waysurvivor
Please tell me what it is you don't think adds up, and I will do my best to clear it up. Obviously, some people have already added POVs that support what I said. Please let me know anything else that you don't feel adds up. Also, many of my memories were in no way done in an apartment. There were a lot of people, and that was the only group he was a member of. My mother found out that he took us there that weekend, and many of my problems started around that time.
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waysurvivor
What I mean when I say that it couldn't have been done in an apartment is that there were at least two levels, and the place was very large. There was concrete in part of the area. To this day, I tend to fall asleep if I'm in an area with concrete. Weird, but true.
Also, I think someone said something about it being weird that I had my own room. I did not have my own room. It was a room that I shared with both my father and sister. Also, the movie room was just what I meant it to sound like, a room that we watched television and movies in. I just thought that maybe, from some of the comments, that someone may have thought I meant some kind of studio to make movies. Not what I meant.
Dunkings in water could have been done in a bathtub or sink and is a common thing in religious cults. I don't have memories of this in particular, but I can't stand water on my face, and that is common with people who have had this happen.
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houseisarockin
waysurvivor, I apologize for offending you, it was not my intent. As well I did you a disservice in assuming you knew much more about twi than you do. That aided in my delivery to you no doubt.
I am no longer in twi, have been out not a long time, was in a bit under 20 years.
There are those of us here who have histories important enough to twi for them to monitor what we offer here. That process is overseen by a gsc poster by the name of John Linder. He is in charge of security at TWI's HQ. Some of us have knowledge of our file with them. They have not hidden it from us. Background for....
Your not being a part of twi does not negate their interest in you for your parent/parents sake. Thus based on what you gave us here they would deem your story as one that could bring about no good for them.
I respect how you referred to ones I stated "those who would desire to make us appear as fools", with "who would be so stupid". That said something about you, thank you for that.
If you still want info from us then ask what you want. Even if you don't agree with how some of us responded, you have seen a ready answer is amongst these folks.
But I still have one question of you please. If the first post you do is rated NC-17, then what did you expect of us? Not to incite anger, an honest question of you.
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Radar OReilly
WEll, this is my first post on this thread, but I have gone back to read it from the first post.
Waysurvivor, I don't know how else to say it other than straight out, I don't believe a word you are saying. I think YOU THINK you are telling the truth, but I don't believe it IS the actual factual truth surrounding your situation.
I was in twi for 28 years, I got in when I was 14. I lived and worked at all levels of the "way tree," in lots of states and at Gunnison, Emporia and Headquarters.
I am no fan of twi, I don't often stick up for them on any level, but your story makes me draw the line. I know there were all sorts of individual child abuse cases, some terrible, like related by Mo and Coolwaters, BUT, overall, twi was made up of people...just like me, LindyHopper, Linda Z, Catcup, TheEvan, Jim, etc. The MAJORITY of twi followers were wonderful, idiotic dufusses that would never dream of abusing a child.
There is NO WAY, NO WAY ON EARTH that what you are perceiving as buried memories are factually based, at least, NOT at Camp Gunnison (And God knows I HATE THAT PLACE) or any other root location.
I hope you are seeking therapy, maybe ptsd or some other specialty, obviously you have been terribly scarred by something----and that is completely true and real, and is something you are experiencing. I am not calling you a liar, I just think your memories are jumbled.
For the rest of you posters.....look, I hardly ever stick up for twi but I just don't believe these particular memories are true, and we do a tremendous disservice to people trying to leave twi, by not sticking to what we personally know to be true.
CoolWaters----you jumped all over Jim earlier. I have known him almost all of my life. He is a good man, and has experienced at least as much as you have at the hands of twi. I agree with him, child abuse was the EXCEPTION. But that doesn't mean IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, and it certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen to you or your loved ones or any number of other people.
I know for a fact that MOST of the *top* (what ever that means) did not tolerate or promote child abuse, at least sexual or physical (as in BEATING) abuse. I distinctly remember being in one meeting of region coordinators, in which a guy that had been M&A in one state was trying to go thru wow counseling at the roa. One particular Region guy went BALLISTIC right then and there.....I fully expected to see this region guy try to beat the idiot to a pulp. I was present in a meeting with most of the region men in which they were all outraged that the guy had even figured out how to sneak back into a twig across the country.
Again, child abuse happened, and even though in most cases legal charges can't be filed, those that harmed our precious children will face a greater judge, I guess that can be our only consolation.
Radar
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excathedra
dearest waysurvivor, i wonder if perhaps your dad who was in the way ministry, could have been involved in other things as well
my heart goes out to you, dear
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Jim
Thanks Radar.
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waysurvivor
I did not think of my post as NC-17. It was the truth, that is all I was thinking of it as. I guess I thought that this was a support group like others I have been in that are for sexual abuse survivors. It is something that you would regularly see there.
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excathedra
dear waysurvivor, what does NC-17 mean ?
i think this can be at times a "support group" for sexual abuse survivors
for me personally it is more of a support group for "spiritual abuse"
please please believe me.... one does not take rank over the other
FOR ME my "hurt" was more about God and the "father in the word" thing
i'm very very sorry for your hurt
love, ex
ps. this doesn't sound right, sorry, i know what i mean
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waysurvivor
I'm sorry if you don't believe a word I'm saying. I feel sorry for you. You are in denial about what goes on in the way. If child abuse is the exception to the rule, why is it listed right along with wife-swapping in cult journals? And if you don't believe me, then you are basically calling several other people here liars. If most of you are such nice citizens, ordinary people and such, why was wife-swapping so rampant? Why was sexual abuse and rape so rampant. There are a lot more stories out there than mine that detail sexual abuse in the way.
Radar, can you state FOR A FACT, PROOF and all, that what I have stated did not happen? I am the one with the memories, I am the one with the panic attacks, the depression, the dissociative tendencies, the inability to get close to people, the bitter anger at men. I have worked long and hard in my therapy, I've soaked up everything I can on sexual abuse and ritual abuse, and I've talked to a person (outside of this group), who was a member of the Way in Gunnison who has stated that what happened to me there did happen to kids. What did she get for talking to me? She got beat up, by Way members! You tend to talk in generalities, but didn't the Way, at that time, have well over 140,000 members? Can you honestly say, after hearing what I've said and hearing what others on this thread have said, that I'm lying, because I don't care what you say about not calling me a liar, you are calling me a liar! Simple as that. Don't twist words and try to make it appear that you are nicer than you are.
As for there bring "in" people in here, that doesn't sit well with me, and it doesn't sit well that so many people still seem to support the Way. I intend to give all of this information to my therapist so that she can present it at the ritual abuse conference.
And how many times do I have to say that I AM in therapy? How many?
Radar, can you honestly say that you think all of these people who say that they know that child abuse goes on are lying? Are you prepared to say that, because it seems like that is what you are alluding to, and that simply makes me think that you are confused. After all, you contradict yourself by saying that you don't believe that I was abused in the Way and then saying that it was the the "exception" though that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That is a contradiction within a contradiction, so which do you mean. Does it or doesn't it happen. BTW, unless you are an expert on recovered memories, don't even tell me that what I THINK is true isn't true. I'll stick with the real experts.
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Georgio Jessio
"I guess I thought that this was a support group like others I have been in that are for sexual abuse survivors. It is something that you would regularly see there."
Well waysurvivor, the group therapy I went to actually discouraged giving graphic details. In a private session it was fine but in open session it was not ok. That's MY experience not saying yours wasn't different. The reason for not getting down to the NC 17 details is because it's really disturbing to a group of people who are all adealing with their own issues. Also some of the people in groups that deal with abuse are very sick and might actually find these details exciting, which doesn't help anyone.
So, here in public I suggest that the details be kept to a somewhat tasteful roar.
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