Yup that is exactly what I am saying that I was told....and any who didn`t fullfill their corpes commitment`s heart never REALLY was corpes to begin with...just pathetic *wannabees*
What you were told was Balderdash. If people were not in good standing in the household, they wouldn't have been allowed to be in docvic's(praise be his name)'s presence for an entire month, every day across the country on a motorcycle trip in 1984, something I did. He knew I got dismissed from the Corps, he knew all about me. Here's another: I hadn't even been GOING TO TWIG FOR 6 MONTHS and took Advanced Class 1978. How about that? He knew that, too. I was no outcast and was very much part of the household, even though never completed my corps commitment and now and again, tripped out.
I don't agree with your saying Oldies, that's why I needed you to be more specific with your answer. I have been forced to do things against what my actions have allowed.
What you were told was Balderdash. If people were not in good standing in the household, they wouldn't have been allowed to be in docvic's(praise be his name)'s presence for an entire month, every day across the country on a motorcycle trip in 1984, something I did. He knew I got dismissed from the Corps, he knew all about me. Here's another: I hadn't even been GOING TO TWIG FOR 6 MONTHS and took Advanced Class 1978. How about that? He knew that, too. I was no outcast and was very much part of the household, even though never completed my corps commitment and now and again, tripped out.
Oh yeah? 1984?
Then you must be good buddies with R*** U******...the guy who was BC in Alaska and ran the Children's Fellowship pedophilia ring...who, btw, is STILL "in good standing" after not once, not twice, not thrice, but at least 4 times heading up such a ring in other states...and...oh yeah...going to prison once for the same thing.
Guess that's the key to having a good experience in twi...do what you damned well please and suck (up to) vpw.
But of course, since YOU didn't experience R*** U****** raping you, then it MUST have been completely the will of the children...
That e-book is looking better and better the more you post, OM.
Oldies...I wonder if the reason that you were treated differentlly than the rest if us was the influence that your family member wielded due to her position held at hq.
Also you might consider that policies that you experienced in the 70s differed greatly from the treatment I endured in the in the mid 80s
Either way...I can only speak to what I was told ...what I was ordered to do ...and why.
Rascal, my corps grad family members may have had some pull, I don't know. But if what you say is true, that folks who didn't complete their corps commitments no longer remained within the will of God and in good standing in the household, there's no way I would have been allowed to do what I did, irrespective of my family members. Also, this wasn't about just me, we observed a good amount of folks who left their corps commitment, became "Joe Believer", and were still loved and in the will of God and part of the household.
That is what I was told oldies...by not only my bc`s my lcs, but by no less than lcm himself in the letter he wrote to me.
I do not doubt that your experience was different than mine....the policies in place in the 70s were very different than the ones in the mid 80s....your experience as a man in the 70s has little bearing at all concerning the treatment of women and children in the mid 80s....what you saw... does not have any bearing on what I was told or what I was required to do .... so please quit trying to cram YOUR damn shoe on MY foot..
None of what you experienced negates what I was taught about the unborn child being regarded as a trick of Satan to trick me from honoring my vow to God.
None of what you experienced negates that I was required to abort the child or be considered outside the will of God and therefor vulnerable to possession and death.
Once again.......children were regarded as acceptable as long as they did not interfere with your spiritual responsibilities....
These things happened in SPITE of your experiences in twi oldies....so just DEAL with it.
Now...if we can get back on topic.... in SPITE of oldies experienced....as attested to by many on this thread, there was rampant child abuse in twi.......I also know that I saw a good deal of neglect when folks would leave their infants and children unattended in a house while the parents went to twig....trusting that God would look after them in the parents absense....I also saw instances of very sick children not being taken to the doctor because the parents were concerned that it would mean that they weren`t believing God.
I also know of several families who went into the corps and came back out because they had sick children or couldnt manage the money at the time.
They remained twig coordinators and went back in to graduate. I agree no one wanted to leave once they began the program and encouraged to try to get the monies and make arrangements for their life but many went in several times that I know of and eventualy graduated.
How people "think" is a different matter .
I happen to believe our children are not idols to be worshipped anymore than a organization like twi is ,life within the spirt goes beyond having children Rascal whether you chose to engage in it or not. children are a "part" of life a temporary one at that when it comes to care taking . I still believe God is the only reason my family flourished and prospered in many difficult situations not my own skill at being a god like character to those I chose to harbor much responsibility for . I put God first and still do .
to use your children as an excuse to not take on a life of fullness and to do what you want is abusive to them and yourself. YOU put the blame of your abortion on others , like you where a child having a child you where unable to take responisibility for your own life and make a good choice for yourself. Life has pressures being grown up is living within those pressures and trusting God to live in a manner that pleases HIm, God loves you He would not harm you. the fact you and others here speak to the fact they were unable to make healthy choices or succeed in their goals with any peace speakes to your own issues not TWI.
You next step will say Im sticking up for cowards , Im not , Im asking those who claim to be victims to consider their own place in the decision making process of "what happened".
many more folks where able to maintain healthy boundaries and say no to those they felt pressure from.
these stories of extreme do indeed tell alot about those who allowed them to happen and bottom line each person is responsible for only him or herself before the Lord.
The fact people can get in your own relationship with God and sway your choices in life says alot to just where you really are spiritualy. to people please was common in twi, to try to impress others with who told you what and when was common. but never the less those who suffered the most in twi sought the approval of other twi people not God or His will for their life.
and they still seek such at this forum . it is a lifestyle of co-dependcy, and yes plenty in twi, it fosters it, as does much of our culture.
I am also a victim yet I learned it was NOT who or what helped me continue in the illness and fostered the problems but my own sense of who I am and my own personal power and strength in knowing and trusting Jesus Christ to be able to overcome the attraction to such groups and manner of thought.
Geeezus mj...and just who in the HELL took impressionable naieve teenagers many of us from broken homes and no guidance...lured them away from any mentors or family and TAUGHT them to be this way?
We trusted these people to teach us of God...we trusted them with our lives and were betrayed vilely....paint it over as pretty as you please....try to mitigate their culpability by placing the blame on the people young enough...naieve enough to beleive that the people who taught us scripture had our best interest in mind....that their hearts were as pure and trusting as our own....
They betrayed us they betrayed God and you want to try to place the blame on those who were hurt for being decieved by pros.....mj, I think that you learned well from the predators...thats how they shut their victims up....make them feel ashamed and that it was somehow their fault..
sigh, I'm so sick and tired of this bull****. We come here to share and heal and learn and talk about things that happened. What the hell do you know about my life, rascal's life, anyone's life?
Whatever happened to you in twi, share it, I will not judge or presume to understand your daily pain. We were all in the same mess, or so some say, yet each was unique.
Extend the same courtesy will you?
And please!! don't assume to know why someone did or did not do something. Were you there? Did you hear the threats, see the lives?
This box of blaming the victims is getting pretty full and sickening.
quote:You next step will say Im sticking up for cowards , Im not , Im asking those who claim to be victims to consider their own place in the decision making process of "what happened". many more folks where able to maintain healthy boundaries and say no to those they felt pressure from.
How is it that it's been derailed so treacherously (by those who I get the feeling were probably the biggest culprits) into blaming the victims?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Someone says, "TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow."
What place does that kind of mentality (which is common among perpetrators) have in a thread about children who were abused?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Someone else says, "Im asking those who claim to be victims to consider their own place in the decision making process of "what happened".
many more folks where able to maintain healthy boundaries and say no to those they felt pressure from...these stories of extreme do indeed tell alot about those who allowed them to happen and bottom line each person is responsible for only him or herself before the Lord."
Children fall into this sanctamonious blathering?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Y'all are showing some colors I don't think you are meaning to show...
But since y'all are putting all your stuff out here to be discussed...
What's wrong with child abuse in the first place? After all, as someone above said, "...children are not idols to be worshipped anymore than a organization like twi is ,life within the spirt goes beyond having children..."
It's hard to argue with this kind of thinking. My mother always said, "I don't argue with crazy." I've changed that to, "Can't argue with crazy...the foundation is cracked."
So, please, OM and mj (and anybody who shares their mentality), please tell us what is wrong with child abuse in the first place?
My daily pain is not going to happen in a constant bitch session of it is all about the other guy fault. fault finding is fine,, and dandy that is why grease spot is here , but this conversation is also getting very old about how you knew it was wrong and complied anyway. and now get angry enough to complain?
At least I admit I was stupid and wrong in what happened to me, it is the only way I grew up to understand the fact it was a bible study group of folks who cared about one another and got caught up in people pleasing and obeying one another for the perks of joinng a cult.
I learned to LOVE through it all not hate. God myself and humans who need one another in the hard times.
ironic isnt it? YOU know what? when you start this you cant prove nothing MJ what you say is invalid right back at ya baby doll , I was there , and I only speak for myself and those I know and still believe in loving God and one another. those of you in your own messes can just keep on keep on eating one another with your memories from hell and who fault is really is.
it makes you look and sound like your insane when someone keeps saying gee golly I obeyed all these leaders and did horrid things to myself and allowed my children to be abused and etc. Will you please trust and listen to me as a person who is in the least bit sane now? UM no I will not.
no one needs to shut up God knows you love this platform have at it all you want it is why this place is here so you think.
keep in the muck and mire of crap in your life all I ask is for once to recognize it was a place to seek approval from those you chose to trust more than God almighty HImself and even you own self. and your still doing it .
The tag team attacks generated on this board shows who is really trained and on board willing to dismiss and attack anyone who disagrees with your own inability to have a voice without one another . that is the cult I was in and the one that is alive and active on Grease spot cafe.
My daily pain is not going to happen in a constant bitch session of it is all about the other guy fault. fault finding is fine,, and dandy that is why grease spot is here , but this conversation is also getting very old about how you knew it was wrong and complied anyway. and now get angry enough to complain?
At least I admit I was stupid and wrong in what happened to me, it is the only way I grew up to understand the fact it was a bible study group of folks who cared about one another and got caught up in people pleasing and obeying one another for the perks of joinng a cult.
I learned to LOVE through it all not hate. God myself and humans who need one another in the hard times.
ironic isnt it? YOU know what? when you start this you cant prove nothing MJ what you say is invalid right back at ya baby doll , I was there , and I only speak for myself and those I know and still believe in loving God and one another. those of you in your own messes can just keep on keep on eating one another with your memories from hell and who fault is really is.
it makes you look and sound like your insane when someone keeps saying gee golly I obeyed all these leaders and did horrid things to myself and allowed my children to be abused and etc. Will you please trust and listen to me as a person who is in the least bit sane now? UM no I will not.
no one needs to shut up God knows you love this platform have at it all you want it is why this place is here so you think.
keep in the muck and mire of crap in your life all I ask is for once to recognize it was a place to seek approval from those you chose to trust more than God almighty HImself and even you own self. and your still doing it .
The tag team attacks generated on this board shows who is really trained and on board willing to dismiss and attack anyone who disagrees with your own inability to have a voice without one another . that is the cult I was in and the one that is alive and active on Grease spot cafe.
How does this virtual spittle spewing from an apoplectic rage answer my question?
What is wrong with child abuse in the first place?
I saw alot of child abuse in Twi and I stood up to every parent that thought a ministry was more important than their own families. it didnt work tho because that type of thinking comes within a person and can only be changed within the person who allows it to happen.
it is not brain science to recognize child molesters will be around children or that fire freaks will belong to the fire departments.
I told the girl who watched my children during fellowship she is not allowed to touch my children although she was instructed to slap other kids in the fellowship. I point blank told her I will put you in jail in a NY minute . and I would have no doubt. some parents ALLOWED their children to listen to the wrong people because they themselves trusted the wrong people and or wanted to impress the right people and got hurt by not protecting their own families. I saw it alot honestly . I said people pleasing was common at great expense.
I remember the order as God first , families and your job then ministries functions. If a person was unable to maintain their life in order because they wanted to be bigger and better for the way who had the problem hmm? the way was happy to have idiots such as that and it was full of folks willing to compromise nearly every area to belong and impress one another.
cool water what the hell are you saying ? I think child abuse is wrong but I think protecting yourself and your own children is the primary will Of God and if that is not happening for you you have a problem more serious than gee golly why did this happen to me? I make no excuse for those who have guilt and still wallow in it, child molester are rampant in our society .
I do not think Twi was created to abuse children sexualy do I think molesters were involved? you bet, with some of the parents I saw in the way who would give anything to make the ladder in twi it was easy picking for sure. the bible asks us to be wise and to use our wisdom, it was about people pleasing and people got hurt you bet. but the problem belonged to who it belonged .
God would not allow us to get hurt, trusting anyone with the care of your children was a choice people made. Im sorry things like molestation happen , but It does happen .
the inability to protect yourself from that is another problem all together. a very personal one indeed. I do not believe the majority of people in the way had anything to do with this "ring" you claim to know of.
I sure twi could care less what I think and Im not sticking up for any bad person in the way. But I know God and the Lord Jesus christ is a good Lord who we can trust I choseto give God the glory of living a life of peace and happiness instead of misery and bitterness.
Just a thought. If people weren't ready to be parents, why didn't they just use birth control. I mean, if abortions were allowed, certainly birth control was, as well?
That is mighty sick oldies...just about the lowest you have sunk yet....
Mistaking respect for life and regret for life taken is such a far cry from practicing idolotry...that is the biggest bastardization of anybody`s position here or posts that they have written, that I have seen you manufacture yet oldies.
Cool waters... these people have no compassion for what you and your daughter or the rest of these children endured.....the burdens that will be bourne for the rest of their lives....these are simply diversionary tactics to distract people from the guilt of the monsters they seek to protect.
That any of you would cover for this evil ...or try to minimalise it speaks volumes of who and what you are.
it is not that I do not care if one suffers we all suffer really. but the need to imagine it to be anything other than what it was, helps no one either. I do not think weirwille is special for pfal I never did nor did I think his leaders in the way were anything more than folks with jobs in a mininstry (or a cult) even that had an agenda.
the problem is many of you guys did and now blame them for getting hurt by such thinking. it may be their agenda but it was your choice to buy into many of compromises you paid to be a part of it. not everyone went as far as others I recall the old saying you can go as far as fast as YOU want to with God. hahah God was far remeoved with what most had in mind to be doing it was all about the ministry for many, to heck with God or yourself. dam shame really. all of it.
How horribly foolish of me to believe that the people who taught me the bible were men of integrety and honor....
I am SO to blame for being naieve enough to believe that their hearts and motives were as pure as my own....
May God forgive my ignorance when in placing my trust in those who introduced me to God and promised to teach me his word like it hadn`t been known....how dare I believe that they would help me to find all the answeres to lifes problems ??...how incredibly stupid of me to NOT suspect that they would lie about those answeres..
I am so to blame for falling prey to experienced con men...NOT!
mj, there are accomplished cons that manage to fleece people every day ...they get away with it becasue they are GOOD!
They are clever enough to be able to dissarm our suspiscions...thats WHY people fall victim to their ploys....
I REFUSE to accept the guilt and shame that you are attempting to lay on our shoulders in addition to the betrayal we suffered at these clever cons hands.
This thread is about CHILD abuse in twi mj...why not try to contain your comments to that topic on this thread and please spare us your amature psychoanalys of the rest of us and our motives or at least post it on another thread.......the children mentioned here really had no choice in what happened and your observations are inapropriate here.
If you must be so rude, hateful, haughty and condescending - please LEAVE.
I don't know any of these people on this thread personally, but I have seen their hearts and read their words of pain. I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about everything there is to know anything about, like y'all, but I will say this:
Neither do you!
MJ412, when you point the accusing finger at MY FRIEND CW, you are pointing the rest of your fingers back at yourself. You spew hatred and blame and it makes me wonder if you don't maybe just "protest too much."
Oldies, when I was in TWI I believed every word about abortion on demand. I knew that I knew that I knew that I knew, for a total and a complete and flawless certainty that life begins with the first breath and ends with the last. Now that I'm free, I notice that the logic they used when quoting Scripture to back up their doctrine was kinda shaky.
I personally do not believe in or promote abortion any more. What about choice? Ask that unborn child what choice he/she would make. I notice everyone promoting abortion has already been born. In my opinion it's child abuse.
And get off CW's case, dammit! And answer her question, which is now mine:
What is wrong with child abuse, anyway? I am nauseated and horrified that anyone would defend someone who abused a child, specifically sexual abuse of children. Even shutting up or looking the other way is inexcusable. So, answer me, please: WHAT IS WRONG WITH CHILD ABUSE???
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Catcup
I, too am new to this particular thread. I spent several hours this morning looking through it. While I was never a part of any "initiation" ceremony (tongue in cheek or otherwise) that Evan describ
rascal
Yup that is exactly what I am saying that I was told....and any who didn`t fullfill their corpes commitment`s heart never REALLY was corpes to begin with...just pathetic *wannabees*
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oldiesman
What you were told was Balderdash. If people were not in good standing in the household, they wouldn't have been allowed to be in docvic's(praise be his name)'s presence for an entire month, every day across the country on a motorcycle trip in 1984, something I did. He knew I got dismissed from the Corps, he knew all about me. Here's another: I hadn't even been GOING TO TWIG FOR 6 MONTHS and took Advanced Class 1978. How about that? He knew that, too. I was no outcast and was very much part of the household, even though never completed my corps commitment and now and again, tripped out.
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sadie
I don't agree with your saying Oldies, that's why I needed you to be more specific with your answer. I have been forced to do things against what my actions have allowed.
Where does your actions originate Oldies?
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CoolWaters
Oh yeah? 1984?
Then you must be good buddies with R*** U******...the guy who was BC in Alaska and ran the Children's Fellowship pedophilia ring...who, btw, is STILL "in good standing" after not once, not twice, not thrice, but at least 4 times heading up such a ring in other states...and...oh yeah...going to prison once for the same thing.
Guess that's the key to having a good experience in twi...do what you damned well please and suck (up to) vpw.
But of course, since YOU didn't experience R*** U****** raping you, then it MUST have been completely the will of the children...
That e-book is looking better and better the more you post, OM.
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rascal
Oldies...I wonder if the reason that you were treated differentlly than the rest if us was the influence that your family member wielded due to her position held at hq.
Also you might consider that policies that you experienced in the 70s differed greatly from the treatment I endured in the in the mid 80s
Either way...I can only speak to what I was told ...what I was ordered to do ...and why.
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oldiesman
Rascal, my corps grad family members may have had some pull, I don't know. But if what you say is true, that folks who didn't complete their corps commitments no longer remained within the will of God and in good standing in the household, there's no way I would have been allowed to do what I did, irrespective of my family members. Also, this wasn't about just me, we observed a good amount of folks who left their corps commitment, became "Joe Believer", and were still loved and in the will of God and part of the household.
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rascal
That is what I was told oldies...by not only my bc`s my lcs, but by no less than lcm himself in the letter he wrote to me.
I do not doubt that your experience was different than mine....the policies in place in the 70s were very different than the ones in the mid 80s....your experience as a man in the 70s has little bearing at all concerning the treatment of women and children in the mid 80s....what you saw... does not have any bearing on what I was told or what I was required to do .... so please quit trying to cram YOUR damn shoe on MY foot..
None of what you experienced negates what I was taught about the unborn child being regarded as a trick of Satan to trick me from honoring my vow to God.
None of what you experienced negates that I was required to abort the child or be considered outside the will of God and therefor vulnerable to possession and death.
Once again.......children were regarded as acceptable as long as they did not interfere with your spiritual responsibilities....
These things happened in SPITE of your experiences in twi oldies....so just DEAL with it.
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rascal
Now...if we can get back on topic.... in SPITE of oldies experienced....as attested to by many on this thread, there was rampant child abuse in twi.......I also know that I saw a good deal of neglect when folks would leave their infants and children unattended in a house while the parents went to twig....trusting that God would look after them in the parents absense....I also saw instances of very sick children not being taken to the doctor because the parents were concerned that it would mean that they weren`t believing God.
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mj412
I also know of several families who went into the corps and came back out because they had sick children or couldnt manage the money at the time.
They remained twig coordinators and went back in to graduate. I agree no one wanted to leave once they began the program and encouraged to try to get the monies and make arrangements for their life but many went in several times that I know of and eventualy graduated.
How people "think" is a different matter .
I happen to believe our children are not idols to be worshipped anymore than a organization like twi is ,life within the spirt goes beyond having children Rascal whether you chose to engage in it or not. children are a "part" of life a temporary one at that when it comes to care taking . I still believe God is the only reason my family flourished and prospered in many difficult situations not my own skill at being a god like character to those I chose to harbor much responsibility for . I put God first and still do .
to use your children as an excuse to not take on a life of fullness and to do what you want is abusive to them and yourself. YOU put the blame of your abortion on others , like you where a child having a child you where unable to take responisibility for your own life and make a good choice for yourself. Life has pressures being grown up is living within those pressures and trusting God to live in a manner that pleases HIm, God loves you He would not harm you. the fact you and others here speak to the fact they were unable to make healthy choices or succeed in their goals with any peace speakes to your own issues not TWI.
You next step will say Im sticking up for cowards , Im not , Im asking those who claim to be victims to consider their own place in the decision making process of "what happened".
many more folks where able to maintain healthy boundaries and say no to those they felt pressure from.
these stories of extreme do indeed tell alot about those who allowed them to happen and bottom line each person is responsible for only him or herself before the Lord.
The fact people can get in your own relationship with God and sway your choices in life says alot to just where you really are spiritualy. to people please was common in twi, to try to impress others with who told you what and when was common. but never the less those who suffered the most in twi sought the approval of other twi people not God or His will for their life.
and they still seek such at this forum . it is a lifestyle of co-dependcy, and yes plenty in twi, it fosters it, as does much of our culture.
I am also a victim yet I learned it was NOT who or what helped me continue in the illness and fostered the problems but my own sense of who I am and my own personal power and strength in knowing and trusting Jesus Christ to be able to overcome the attraction to such groups and manner of thought.
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rascal
Geeezus mj...and just who in the HELL took impressionable naieve teenagers many of us from broken homes and no guidance...lured them away from any mentors or family and TAUGHT them to be this way?
We trusted these people to teach us of God...we trusted them with our lives and were betrayed vilely....paint it over as pretty as you please....try to mitigate their culpability by placing the blame on the people young enough...naieve enough to beleive that the people who taught us scripture had our best interest in mind....that their hearts were as pure and trusting as our own....
They betrayed us they betrayed God and you want to try to place the blame on those who were hurt for being decieved by pros.....mj, I think that you learned well from the predators...thats how they shut their victims up....make them feel ashamed and that it was somehow their fault..
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Shellon
mj.......What cult were you in?
sigh, I'm so sick and tired of this bull****. We come here to share and heal and learn and talk about things that happened. What the hell do you know about my life, rascal's life, anyone's life?
Whatever happened to you in twi, share it, I will not judge or presume to understand your daily pain. We were all in the same mess, or so some say, yet each was unique.
Extend the same courtesy will you?
And please!! don't assume to know why someone did or did not do something. Were you there? Did you hear the threats, see the lives?
This box of blaming the victims is getting pretty full and sickening.
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oldiesman
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CoolWaters
This thread is titled, "Child Abuse in TWI".
How is it that it's been derailed so treacherously (by those who I get the feeling were probably the biggest culprits) into blaming the victims?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Someone says, "TWI has no power over you except that which your actions allow."
What place does that kind of mentality (which is common among perpetrators) have in a thread about children who were abused?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Someone else says, "Im asking those who claim to be victims to consider their own place in the decision making process of "what happened".
many more folks where able to maintain healthy boundaries and say no to those they felt pressure from...these stories of extreme do indeed tell alot about those who allowed them to happen and bottom line each person is responsible for only him or herself before the Lord."
Children fall into this sanctamonious blathering?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Y'all are showing some colors I don't think you are meaning to show...
But since y'all are putting all your stuff out here to be discussed...
What's wrong with child abuse in the first place? After all, as someone above said, "...children are not idols to be worshipped anymore than a organization like twi is ,life within the spirt goes beyond having children..."
It's hard to argue with this kind of thinking. My mother always said, "I don't argue with crazy." I've changed that to, "Can't argue with crazy...the foundation is cracked."
So, please, OM and mj (and anybody who shares their mentality), please tell us what is wrong with child abuse in the first place?
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mj412
My daily pain is not going to happen in a constant bitch session of it is all about the other guy fault. fault finding is fine,, and dandy that is why grease spot is here , but this conversation is also getting very old about how you knew it was wrong and complied anyway. and now get angry enough to complain?
At least I admit I was stupid and wrong in what happened to me, it is the only way I grew up to understand the fact it was a bible study group of folks who cared about one another and got caught up in people pleasing and obeying one another for the perks of joinng a cult.
I learned to LOVE through it all not hate. God myself and humans who need one another in the hard times.
ironic isnt it? YOU know what? when you start this you cant prove nothing MJ what you say is invalid right back at ya baby doll , I was there , and I only speak for myself and those I know and still believe in loving God and one another. those of you in your own messes can just keep on keep on eating one another with your memories from hell and who fault is really is.
it makes you look and sound like your insane when someone keeps saying gee golly I obeyed all these leaders and did horrid things to myself and allowed my children to be abused and etc. Will you please trust and listen to me as a person who is in the least bit sane now? UM no I will not.
no one needs to shut up God knows you love this platform have at it all you want it is why this place is here so you think.
keep in the muck and mire of crap in your life all I ask is for once to recognize it was a place to seek approval from those you chose to trust more than God almighty HImself and even you own self. and your still doing it .
The tag team attacks generated on this board shows who is really trained and on board willing to dismiss and attack anyone who disagrees with your own inability to have a voice without one another . that is the cult I was in and the one that is alive and active on Grease spot cafe.
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CoolWaters
How does this virtual spittle spewing from an apoplectic rage answer my question?
What is wrong with child abuse in the first place?
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oldiesman
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mj412
I saw alot of child abuse in Twi and I stood up to every parent that thought a ministry was more important than their own families. it didnt work tho because that type of thinking comes within a person and can only be changed within the person who allows it to happen.
it is not brain science to recognize child molesters will be around children or that fire freaks will belong to the fire departments.
I told the girl who watched my children during fellowship she is not allowed to touch my children although she was instructed to slap other kids in the fellowship. I point blank told her I will put you in jail in a NY minute . and I would have no doubt. some parents ALLOWED their children to listen to the wrong people because they themselves trusted the wrong people and or wanted to impress the right people and got hurt by not protecting their own families. I saw it alot honestly . I said people pleasing was common at great expense.
I remember the order as God first , families and your job then ministries functions. If a person was unable to maintain their life in order because they wanted to be bigger and better for the way who had the problem hmm? the way was happy to have idiots such as that and it was full of folks willing to compromise nearly every area to belong and impress one another.
cool water what the hell are you saying ? I think child abuse is wrong but I think protecting yourself and your own children is the primary will Of God and if that is not happening for you you have a problem more serious than gee golly why did this happen to me? I make no excuse for those who have guilt and still wallow in it, child molester are rampant in our society .
I do not think Twi was created to abuse children sexualy do I think molesters were involved? you bet, with some of the parents I saw in the way who would give anything to make the ladder in twi it was easy picking for sure. the bible asks us to be wise and to use our wisdom, it was about people pleasing and people got hurt you bet. but the problem belonged to who it belonged .
God would not allow us to get hurt, trusting anyone with the care of your children was a choice people made. Im sorry things like molestation happen , but It does happen .
the inability to protect yourself from that is another problem all together. a very personal one indeed. I do not believe the majority of people in the way had anything to do with this "ring" you claim to know of.
I sure twi could care less what I think and Im not sticking up for any bad person in the way. But I know God and the Lord Jesus christ is a good Lord who we can trust I choseto give God the glory of living a life of peace and happiness instead of misery and bitterness.
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waysurvivor
Just a thought. If people weren't ready to be parents, why didn't they just use birth control. I mean, if abortions were allowed, certainly birth control was, as well?
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rascal
That is mighty sick oldies...just about the lowest you have sunk yet....
Mistaking respect for life and regret for life taken is such a far cry from practicing idolotry...that is the biggest bastardization of anybody`s position here or posts that they have written, that I have seen you manufacture yet oldies.
Cool waters... these people have no compassion for what you and your daughter or the rest of these children endured.....the burdens that will be bourne for the rest of their lives....these are simply diversionary tactics to distract people from the guilt of the monsters they seek to protect.
That any of you would cover for this evil ...or try to minimalise it speaks volumes of who and what you are.
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Steve!
"I don't care if he was a plagiarist, molester, rapist,
conman and overall fraud,
HE TAUGHT ME THE WOOOORD...
I got mine-who cares if YOU suffer?"
om has a piano that has only one key. It's a KMart piano, definitely KMart.
And mj412 just lets loose with diarrhea all over the screen in her posts.
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mj412
it is not that I do not care if one suffers we all suffer really. but the need to imagine it to be anything other than what it was, helps no one either. I do not think weirwille is special for pfal I never did nor did I think his leaders in the way were anything more than folks with jobs in a mininstry (or a cult) even that had an agenda.
the problem is many of you guys did and now blame them for getting hurt by such thinking. it may be their agenda but it was your choice to buy into many of compromises you paid to be a part of it. not everyone went as far as others I recall the old saying you can go as far as fast as YOU want to with God. hahah God was far remeoved with what most had in mind to be doing it was all about the ministry for many, to heck with God or yourself. dam shame really. all of it.
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rascal
How horribly foolish of me to believe that the people who taught me the bible were men of integrety and honor....
I am SO to blame for being naieve enough to believe that their hearts and motives were as pure as my own....
May God forgive my ignorance when in placing my trust in those who introduced me to God and promised to teach me his word like it hadn`t been known....how dare I believe that they would help me to find all the answeres to lifes problems ??...how incredibly stupid of me to NOT suspect that they would lie about those answeres..
I am so to blame for falling prey to experienced con men...NOT!
mj, there are accomplished cons that manage to fleece people every day ...they get away with it becasue they are GOOD!
They are clever enough to be able to dissarm our suspiscions...thats WHY people fall victim to their ploys....
I REFUSE to accept the guilt and shame that you are attempting to lay on our shoulders in addition to the betrayal we suffered at these clever cons hands.
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rascal
This thread is about CHILD abuse in twi mj...why not try to contain your comments to that topic on this thread and please spare us your amature psychoanalys of the rest of us and our motives or at least post it on another thread.......the children mentioned here really had no choice in what happened and your observations are inapropriate here.
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Watered Garden
MJ412 and Oldiesman,
If you must be so rude, hateful, haughty and condescending - please LEAVE.
I don't know any of these people on this thread personally, but I have seen their hearts and read their words of pain. I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about everything there is to know anything about, like y'all, but I will say this:
Neither do you!
MJ412, when you point the accusing finger at MY FRIEND CW, you are pointing the rest of your fingers back at yourself. You spew hatred and blame and it makes me wonder if you don't maybe just "protest too much."
Oldies, when I was in TWI I believed every word about abortion on demand. I knew that I knew that I knew that I knew, for a total and a complete and flawless certainty that life begins with the first breath and ends with the last. Now that I'm free, I notice that the logic they used when quoting Scripture to back up their doctrine was kinda shaky.
I personally do not believe in or promote abortion any more. What about choice? Ask that unborn child what choice he/she would make. I notice everyone promoting abortion has already been born. In my opinion it's child abuse.
And get off CW's case, dammit! And answer her question, which is now mine:
What is wrong with child abuse, anyway? I am nauseated and horrified that anyone would defend someone who abused a child, specifically sexual abuse of children. Even shutting up or looking the other way is inexcusable. So, answer me, please: WHAT IS WRONG WITH CHILD ABUSE???
that loud enough for ya?
WG
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