It happened to my family. TWI leadership was not only aware of what happened, but a branch leader was the ring leader and worked with a twig leader...to get more children into their "children's fellowship"...and a limb leader pronounced me, my husband and my unborn child "seed" for trying to stop it all.
aww (((cw)) I have heard from another source about a (maybe the same) situation....it was horrible...as I understand it...one woman said that some lost their children to the state and never got them back...
I do not know if it is the same leader....but I talked with a lady ...and according to her.... most of the children in her state had been molested at one time or another by someone in charge of childrens fellowship.......when discovered...the parents were all intimidated into not going to the authorities...told it would be handled *in house* only to find out in later years.... that the offender had simply been transferred to another state...utterly reprehensible....
(((((((((cw))))) I am so sorry...This is so inexcusable....YOU guys were branded as evil.....I knew about alaska from another mom....
I am wondering if the molester from the state I mentioned...(definatly not alaska) was then moved to alaska...OR do we have two seperate incidences of this horror... in the one the parents shut up because they were told that it was wrong to take a believer before unbeliever courts...and that they must let twi handle it in the most apropriate *spiritual* manner ...yeah righ cya...
What slays me is that they sent this guy on to an area to wreak his havock on a whole NEW set of unsuspecting believers yet again....
According to people who knew that leader in Alaska, he was moved to Alaska by hq from another area where he had the same thing going...and that in the area before Alaska, nobody did anything but intimidate the parents.
I don't know this first-hand, however.
I do know that we waited until the last few days before we left Alaska to take actual steps in getting the state authorities involved. There had been too many nights we were trapped in our home because of a car sitting outside waiting for us...and because we had already been broken into and nothing but letters to/from twi leadership and some other twi information were stolen.
My story is mild abuse compared to some others. Our preschool child was being harassed the the childrens fellowship coordinator, the branch coordinator and his wife (both Family Corpse grads) because our child could not recite a bible verse they tried to force memorize. They said our child was rebellious. I saw three big adults staring down, bullying a 4 year old child.
I told them they were provoking and frustrating our our child unto wrath (anger) as in Eph 6:4. The Family Corpse grad said, "I do not think that is what that verse means." That incident got me the boot and my wife saw the whole thing and left with me...thank GOd!
Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not irritate and provoke your children to anger [do not exasperate them to resentment], but rear them [tenderly] in the training and discipline and the counsel and admonition of the Lord. Amplified Bible
TWI's wooden spoon policy/wrong teaching totally contradicted the verse above. I pray that children that were in twi do not forsake God or the Bible
because of such abuse.
[This message was edited by Golfie on February 13, 2004 at 0:58.]
CW ...it sounds like some kind of sick sick horror movie...My God so hq had to know....how else would locals know to go after letters from leadership and such....know to break in and retreive this stuff?
Dear God CW I am so very sorry for what you and your family have endured at twi`s hands... I wish there was some way to go back in time and extract some justice.
{{{{{Golfie}}}}} I am so sorry...that it happened at all...and that it cost you your family!
{{{{{rascal}}}}} At least we did not lose our children! I know other woman who lost their children. Our marriage and family survived intact (well, as intact as a marriage and family can be after so much stuff...we're getting there, though!). We have the opportunity to heal.
Good for you golfie...I am serious...most parents just accepted it as truth and allowed their children to be bullied.
I do not know if I would have had the nerve to stand up against leaders edicts.. thank God We left before mine were ever treated worse than being snarled at for not sitting still during a super long boring fellowship (at 3 yrs old).
I had suspected such things happened, but I didn't see or know of any myself. It's horrible that people had to go through some of those things and I bet the same TWI leaders who were complicit with covering up for abuse are the same ones who have mocked the Catholic church for using the exact same strategies.
Aw cw...you guys survived...THAT is amazing...you must be rock solid strong....I read posts from one woman who never saw her children again after that incident.
I don`t know how folks can defend this organization...apparently....hq not only knew this stuff went on...it FACILITATED the perpetrators activities and PROTECTED them from prosecution......I frankly don`t understand why you don`t come unglued every time someone does.....
We're solid something for sure, rascal! ;)--> :D-->
It gets under my skin quite a bit to read such nearly blind support of some of the folks involved. I used to argue with people a whole lot. Now I figure to each his own.
BTW...
I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that vpw knew...because I wrote to and received letters from him about what was going on. Those were the letters that the local leadership was most interested in getting.
I also wrote to d and lc m. The letters to them were stolen, but I still have the letters from them. Not a word about what was going. LCM wrote on a piece of scratch paper and wrote one line..."I don't know what to say." DM wrote a very pretty note on twi letterhead about what a good believer I am blah blah blah. Since my letter was addressed to mrs vpw as well (this was after vpw died), dm included mrs vpw as if mrs vpw had input into dm's letter to me.
So I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that leadership all the way up to hq and the prez knew.
And just HOW would local leadership have known to burglarize your home for vpw`s letters, unless HQ told local boys to go get any incriminating evidence....GEEEZE C Y A--....
To hell with what you poor believers suffered...... your children were enduring....get those letters so that the ministry isn`t blamed....
Shoot cw do you realise that if you hadn`t notified the authorities.... hadn`t had the guts to persevere in spite of the intimidation...in spite of your being branded evil ...these guys would have continued on ...WITH the ministries full awareness?? That these guys might full well have continued to move from state to state wreaking devistation??
Thank you...I am serious...THANKYOU for all of the families and children you guys spared the horror of this situation...
YOU endured hell standing up for what was right...it would have been easier to tuck tail and run...I dare say that many of us might have...
I am not trying to be mellow dramatic when I say that there is no telling how many of us were living in the states next in line for these fellows *assignements*.
Fresh victims to be preyed upon.......On behalf of all of the children spared by your actions (as they very well could have been mine next).....
Parents will never know whether it was their children and families NEXT in line for destruction...never know that it was you folks who prevented the destruction from reaching them..
I say again...Thankyou...thankyou both to you and your husband for having the courage to get these guys stopped.
[This message was edited by rascal on February 12, 2004 at 13:52.]
I wish I could tell you that this was stopped for good. But I have been told that the ring leader is still in twi...and is back in AK.
The people to really thank are the children. It was their courage to tell what they needed to tell when it needed to be told. It was their innocent little lives that were constantly in danger. It was their precious hearts that were stomped on repeatedly. It was their frail little bodies that endured.
I am so sorry for what you all went through. I cringed as I watched a bc instructing a father on how to properly beat his child with the wooden spoon. He would hit the child a few times and then have the father do it. I felt so bad for the child, but was too scared to do anything about it.
Why was I even there for that, you ask? Because the bc wanted all of us - the whole fellowship to learn from the "terrible mistakes" these awful parents were making.
Your story is appalling, but sadly not surprising, since the whole TWI machine was set up to cover for the top men in TWI. And I'll bet that Wayfers were the first to say "told you so" when the Catholic priest sex scandals came to light....
What year was this when the Alaska stuff happened? Did the state prosecute the guy involved? I would just want that a****** as far away from children as possible for the rest of his life.
I know at least one of the "leadership" people involved was prosecuted and went to prison. One of the "babes" (in twi-speak) involved was also prosecuted and went to prison (the guy had sat through one or two sessions of the class...and boy did we get it when we actually had the blasphemous gall to allow our daughter to testify in a court of unbelievers against a "babe"!).
Others permanently lost their children to the state.
Others escaped prosecution because the children were too young to give decent testimony to collaborate too little evidence or because the people were "guilty" only of not "seeing" what was going on in their homes.
But as I said, I have heard that the ring-leader is still in twi...and is right back in AK.
TY. I still want to go back and take it all out. Fear, ya know. Sigh.
But this stuff is readily documented. There are newspaper articles, court records, jail records, etc.
Nonetheless, I am still jumping every time I hear someone outside, or the phone rings (thank the brains of the world for caller ID!), or I get an email from someone I don't recognize.
Oh HE LL no ... they had better NOT even TRY to mess with you....You wanna see it hit the fan...we`ll have the biggest gspot ralley you ever saw ...right in your back yard....
(((( CW)))) Thank you for sharing...Thank you for breaking the silence....
You are not the first to post of the alaska mess...so I doubt they will do anything to you.
They can`t hurt you any more....all they can do is scurry for cover like the cock roaches they are when the lights come on exposing their disgusting activities.
I understand that this fear is a leftover fear...that there's no real threat any longer.
I have posted before (on WayDale, I think) about this with another person who was trapped in the situation. Nothing happened then...and I know nothing is going to happen now.
It's just this old jumpiness that hangs on. Not just in wondering if anybody is going to show up at my door, but wondering if I'm going to "pay a price"...if something bad is going to happen to me.
As I said, it's an old fear...started long before I ever knew anything about twi...that marked my upbringing. twi just honed it and magnified it for their own uses.
I just gotta deal, ya know? I may never be over it, either. But, as one of Ginger's daily affirmations says, "every day, in every way, I am getting better".
As someone that is not involved at all with TWI, I am curious as to what danger or threat they would have promised to you to get compliance with things? I read this thread with horror that men do these things, though I am old enough to know the ways of this world and how ugly they are. My heart goes out to you and to all whom TWI has hurt. I see that by their actions they have done the work of the devil - to blaspheme the name, power and love of God so that people hestitate to approach the living God, who is truly a God of love and not of these evil things. Also, in their work to spead fear and burden, they do the work of evil, for in God there is no fear, but love.
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I, too am new to this particular thread. I spent several hours this morning looking through it. While I was never a part of any "initiation" ceremony (tongue in cheek or otherwise) that Evan describ
Abigail
Where what definitely happened? Where leadership abused their kids or where leadership was aware of abuse and did nothing?
The latter I can guarantee occured and not just child abuse but spousal abuse as well.
To every man his own truth and his own God within.
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CoolWaters
Mr P,
It happened to my family. TWI leadership was not only aware of what happened, but a branch leader was the ring leader and worked with a twig leader...to get more children into their "children's fellowship"...and a limb leader pronounced me, my husband and my unborn child "seed" for trying to stop it all.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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rascal
aww (((cw)) I have heard from another source about a (maybe the same) situation....it was horrible...as I understand it...one woman said that some lost their children to the state and never got them back...
I do not know if it is the same leader....but I talked with a lady ...and according to her.... most of the children in her state had been molested at one time or another by someone in charge of childrens fellowship.......when discovered...the parents were all intimidated into not going to the authorities...told it would be handled *in house* only to find out in later years.... that the offender had simply been transferred to another state...utterly reprehensible....
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CoolWaters
TY {{{{{rascal}}}}}
That's what I know happened in Alaska...except for the "most of the children in her state had been..." part...I was there.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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rascal
(((((((((cw))))) I am so sorry...This is so inexcusable....YOU guys were branded as evil.....I knew about alaska from another mom....
I am wondering if the molester from the state I mentioned...(definatly not alaska) was then moved to alaska...OR do we have two seperate incidences of this horror... in the one the parents shut up because they were told that it was wrong to take a believer before unbeliever courts...and that they must let twi handle it in the most apropriate *spiritual* manner ...yeah righ cya...
What slays me is that they sent this guy on to an area to wreak his havock on a whole NEW set of unsuspecting believers yet again....
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???????
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CoolWaters
rascal,
According to people who knew that leader in Alaska, he was moved to Alaska by hq from another area where he had the same thing going...and that in the area before Alaska, nobody did anything but intimidate the parents.
I don't know this first-hand, however.
I do know that we waited until the last few days before we left Alaska to take actual steps in getting the state authorities involved. There had been too many nights we were trapped in our home because of a car sitting outside waiting for us...and because we had already been broken into and nothing but letters to/from twi leadership and some other twi information were stolen.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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Golfie
My story is mild abuse compared to some others. Our preschool child was being harassed the the childrens fellowship coordinator, the branch coordinator and his wife (both Family Corpse grads) because our child could not recite a bible verse they tried to force memorize. They said our child was rebellious. I saw three big adults staring down, bullying a 4 year old child.
I told them they were provoking and frustrating our our child unto wrath (anger) as in Eph 6:4. The Family Corpse grad said, "I do not think that is what that verse means." That incident got me the boot and my wife saw the whole thing and left with me...thank GOd!
Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not irritate and provoke your children to anger [do not exasperate them to resentment], but rear them [tenderly] in the training and discipline and the counsel and admonition of the Lord. Amplified Bible
TWI's wooden spoon policy/wrong teaching totally contradicted the verse above. I pray that children that were in twi do not forsake God or the Bible
because of such abuse.
[This message was edited by Golfie on February 13, 2004 at 0:58.]
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rascal
CW ...it sounds like some kind of sick sick horror movie...My God so hq had to know....how else would locals know to go after letters from leadership and such....know to break in and retreive this stuff?
Dear God CW I am so very sorry for what you and your family have endured at twi`s hands... I wish there was some way to go back in time and extract some justice.
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CoolWaters
{{{{{Golfie}}}}} I am so sorry...that it happened at all...and that it cost you your family!
{{{{{rascal}}}}} At least we did not lose our children! I know other woman who lost their children. Our marriage and family survived intact (well, as intact as a marriage and family can be after so much stuff...we're getting there, though!). We have the opportunity to heal.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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rascal
Good for you golfie...I am serious...most parents just accepted it as truth and allowed their children to be bullied.
I do not know if I would have had the nerve to stand up against leaders edicts.. thank God We left before mine were ever treated worse than being snarled at for not sitting still during a super long boring fellowship (at 3 yrs old).
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Mister P-Mosh
I had suspected such things happened, but I didn't see or know of any myself. It's horrible that people had to go through some of those things and I bet the same TWI leaders who were complicit with covering up for abuse are the same ones who have mocked the Catholic church for using the exact same strategies.
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rascal
Aw cw...you guys survived...THAT is amazing...you must be rock solid strong....I read posts from one woman who never saw her children again after that incident.
I don`t know how folks can defend this organization...apparently....hq not only knew this stuff went on...it FACILITATED the perpetrators activities and PROTECTED them from prosecution......I frankly don`t understand why you don`t come unglued every time someone does.....
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CoolWaters
We're solid something for sure, rascal!
;)--> 
:D-->
It gets under my skin quite a bit to read such nearly blind support of some of the folks involved. I used to argue with people a whole lot. Now I figure to each his own.
BTW...
I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that vpw knew...because I wrote to and received letters from him about what was going on. Those were the letters that the local leadership was most interested in getting.
I also wrote to d and lc m. The letters to them were stolen, but I still have the letters from them. Not a word about what was going. LCM wrote on a piece of scratch paper and wrote one line..."I don't know what to say." DM wrote a very pretty note on twi letterhead about what a good believer I am blah blah blah. Since my letter was addressed to mrs vpw as well (this was after vpw died), dm included mrs vpw as if mrs vpw had input into dm's letter to me.
So I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that leadership all the way up to hq and the prez knew.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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rascal
And just HOW would local leadership have known to burglarize your home for vpw`s letters, unless HQ told local boys to go get any incriminating evidence....GEEEZE C Y A--....
To hell with what you poor believers suffered...... your children were enduring....get those letters so that the ministry isn`t blamed....
Shoot cw do you realise that if you hadn`t notified the authorities.... hadn`t had the guts to persevere in spite of the intimidation...in spite of your being branded evil ...these guys would have continued on ...WITH the ministries full awareness?? That these guys might full well have continued to move from state to state wreaking devistation??
Thank you...I am serious...THANKYOU for all of the families and children you guys spared the horror of this situation...
YOU endured hell standing up for what was right...it would have been easier to tuck tail and run...I dare say that many of us might have...
I am not trying to be mellow dramatic when I say that there is no telling how many of us were living in the states next in line for these fellows *assignements*.
Fresh victims to be preyed upon.......On behalf of all of the children spared by your actions (as they very well could have been mine next).....
Parents will never know whether it was their children and families NEXT in line for destruction...never know that it was you folks who prevented the destruction from reaching them..
I say again...Thankyou...thankyou both to you and your husband for having the courage to get these guys stopped.
[This message was edited by rascal on February 12, 2004 at 13:52.]
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CoolWaters
{{{{{rascal}}}}
I wish I could tell you that this was stopped for good. But I have been told that the ring leader is still in twi...and is back in AK.
The people to really thank are the children. It was their courage to tell what they needed to tell when it needed to be told. It was their innocent little lives that were constantly in danger. It was their precious hearts that were stomped on repeatedly. It was their frail little bodies that endured.
All we did was notify the proper authorities.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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insurgent
I am so sorry for what you all went through. I cringed as I watched a bc instructing a father on how to properly beat his child with the wooden spoon. He would hit the child a few times and then have the father do it. I felt so bad for the child, but was too scared to do anything about it.
Why was I even there for that, you ask? Because the bc wanted all of us - the whole fellowship to learn from the "terrible mistakes" these awful parents were making.
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CoolWaters
twi taught a very practiced delusion...called denial...about the truth...concerning everything
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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shazdancer
Dear CW,
Your story is appalling, but sadly not surprising, since the whole TWI machine was set up to cover for the top men in TWI. And I'll bet that Wayfers were the first to say "told you so" when the Catholic priest sex scandals came to light....
What year was this when the Alaska stuff happened? Did the state prosecute the guy involved? I would just want that a****** as far away from children as possible for the rest of his life.
Regards,
Shaz
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CoolWaters
Shaz,
This was about '84-'86.
I know at least one of the "leadership" people involved was prosecuted and went to prison. One of the "babes" (in twi-speak) involved was also prosecuted and went to prison (the guy had sat through one or two sessions of the class...and boy did we get it when we actually had the blasphemous gall to allow our daughter to testify in a court of unbelievers against a "babe"!).
Others permanently lost their children to the state.
Others escaped prosecution because the children were too young to give decent testimony to collaborate too little evidence or because the people were "guilty" only of not "seeing" what was going on in their homes.
But as I said, I have heard that the ring-leader is still in twi...and is right back in AK.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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Shellon
CW, how proud I am of you for putting this stuff out here publically.
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CoolWaters
{{{{{Shellon}}}}}
TY. I still want to go back and take it all out. Fear, ya know. Sigh.
But this stuff is readily documented. There are newspaper articles, court records, jail records, etc.
Nonetheless, I am still jumping every time I hear someone outside, or the phone rings (thank the brains of the world for caller ID!), or I get an email from someone I don't recognize.
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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rascal
Oh HE LL no ... they had better NOT even TRY to mess with you....You wanna see it hit the fan...we`ll have the biggest gspot ralley you ever saw ...right in your back yard....
(((( CW)))) Thank you for sharing...Thank you for breaking the silence....
You are not the first to post of the alaska mess...so I doubt they will do anything to you.
They can`t hurt you any more....all they can do is scurry for cover like the cock roaches they are when the lights come on exposing their disgusting activities.
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CoolWaters
{{{{{rascal!}}}}}
You are the sweetest!
I understand that this fear is a leftover fear...that there's no real threat any longer.
I have posted before (on WayDale, I think) about this with another person who was trapped in the situation. Nothing happened then...and I know nothing is going to happen now.
It's just this old jumpiness that hangs on. Not just in wondering if anybody is going to show up at my door, but wondering if I'm going to "pay a price"...if something bad is going to happen to me.
As I said, it's an old fear...started long before I ever knew anything about twi...that marked my upbringing. twi just honed it and magnified it for their own uses.
I just gotta deal, ya know? I may never be over it, either. But, as one of Ginger's daily affirmations says, "every day, in every way, I am getting better".
אַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַאַ
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Clicker
Cool Waters,
As someone that is not involved at all with TWI, I am curious as to what danger or threat they would have promised to you to get compliance with things? I read this thread with horror that men do these things, though I am old enough to know the ways of this world and how ugly they are. My heart goes out to you and to all whom TWI has hurt. I see that by their actions they have done the work of the devil - to blaspheme the name, power and love of God so that people hestitate to approach the living God, who is truly a God of love and not of these evil things. Also, in their work to spead fear and burden, they do the work of evil, for in God there is no fear, but love.
Carol
Carol@hisbodylife.com
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