So they were leasing cars when they were telling us that it was debt and wrong? Figures.
I found some old letters from Craig to the WC. Would these help with the Peeler Lawsuit? I will make copies to send to them.
July 1994
“T…..M…., 17th Corps, who has been entrusted over the years with staff positions……has recently revealed himself as a practicing homosexual for many years. Despite clear teaching and adamant confrontation……therefore, I have recently declared to those directly involved and to the staff and corps here at International that he is to be “abandonedâ€. To deliver one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh means that the household should have nothing to do with him. He has rejected the teaching and love and help of the household….for years….therefore the ohnly thing that would genuinely get his mind to a place of considering honest spiritual sobriety is to deliver him over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, and that means complete adamdonment by those of us who love God and His Word and The Way Ministry…..Remember the homo spirits are adept liars, and their sincerity in asking for and acting like they want heolp is simply counterfeit…..â€
then it goes into the part about spiritual suspicion
“I’d like to say to you “closet†homosexuals in the Corps household that you’d better run, because you cannot hide! …. You will be exposed and embarrassed and flushed; so you might as well make up your mind now to get out….
“You female fags, called lesbians, might as well have dogs that lick your slimy twats as another woman!….You are an abomination to God and the household of The Way Corps and The Way Ministry….You should be thankful you’re not in the Old Testament times, because there are some of us who would gladly execute you. I would rejoice at that privilege….Embarrassment and ostracism from the Corps household is the least that we should do for you…..â€
June 1994
I gave M & S H……the ‘bum’s rush’ hout of here because of their hardness of heart and lack of ‘saltness’ were finally exposed after years of acting as if they really stood with the current Board of Trustees. Theyare nothing more or less than the same kind of ‘foggers’ that we moved out of here years ago, in that they don’t care what I think, only what Dr. Wierwille told them years ago.
In addition to the evil thinking engendered from those dropped from active Corps, some of those ‘busted back’ from their previous assignments (because of debt and other indications of spiritual slothfulness) allowed the adversary into their thoughts, and many of you who are friends of these are thinking evil because we have taken the stand that you should have taken! It’s time to clean house in an even more adamant manner….
We trustees have shown our leadership here how to dig out these cop-outs who have hidden in the household, taking the grace of
God in vain. The fact that I had to dig the M…. out of our Region leader fellowship…..shows how certain ones have deceptively entrenched themselves by their good words and fair speeches. ….it required straight revelation to smoke them out.
In recent Sunday Night Services, I boldly and clearly admonished the entire ministry (which would go double for the Corps and triple for the Clergy) on the salt covenant commitment that God expects out of the true disciples….It’s ‘open season’ and there is ‘no limit’; so let’s get the house clean and keep it that way.
someone looking for actual teaching about mark and avoid would probably find it in these tapes from early 1994 since this letter was from June.
There’s a letter to Rev. B Nxxxor and his wife about being dropped from active corps.
Then another letter where he talks about dropping corps for debt and probation periods….to get your attention that God means business about being out of debt 2) to give you time necessary to get on top of your expenses and income, making aggressive decisions to get out of debt and to show that you have to live up to the Word of God or we will not back you up and support you. …Debt is sin. To look at it any other way is rationalization and old man thinking….If yo disagree with this then drop yourself from active corps and save us from having to root you out….
OMG! I wonder if anyone's lawyers would like copies of THOSE letters??????
I just don't understand how twi can sit in there and answer the deposition questions like they have been with all of these kinds of printed, official twi correspondence out there floating around....just waiting to bite them in the butt
Gosh Wayward, Martindale was truly a sick man and this was very evident from your above post.
I remember when our fellowships were at a STS awaiting for the announcements concerning the assignments of Way leadership. The Binkleys and the Roberts were waiting to hear if they were being transfered to another location.
If the ministry BOD doesn't tell you where to live then why did leadership sit there waiting for their next assignment to be announced. They sure fooled all of us sitting with them if they already knew.
I don't trust them, never did and that's why I'm not with them anymore.
...You should be thankful you’re not in the Old Testament times, because there are some of us who would gladly execute you. I would rejoice at that privilege….Embarrassment and ostracism from the Corps household is the least that we should do for you…..â€
OMG!!!
WTF happened to this guy??? -->
And you guys that had to listen to this wacko B.S. :(-->
I found these statements on the home page of GSpot. These are from the staff meeting notes and quotes from Craig:
quote:Isn't it something that the ones that need to change the most many times are the most indignant when you reprove them--most adamant, on a soapbox. More and more they don't stay long on that soapbox because we are learning to have the courage--at least some of us--to mark and avoid and separate and confront them and tell them to leave. We are learning what righteousness means. It means the guts to take a stand against evil and not let the accuser make you think you're wrong because you're running off the damned lepers.
. I for years have shown you references from every Church Epistle that tell us to separate, mark and avoid, withdraw from every brother that walketh disorderly; so I'm sure some believe that and practice that, and still some in the depth of your heart, you don't really believe it. You think that love and grace and mercy mean you're supposed to tolerate everything. That's exactly how the devil spirits nearly took this ministry over, (which we're still cleaning out,) with that lack of resolve to the truth, that private interpretation of what the scripture says, that vague, general mind set about what Jesus Christ really wanted.
How long do we keep teaching people they ought to tithe and abundantly share? I guess that's relative to every circumstance. Some people have just rejected it so often I don't think they hear it at all. It's just a matter of time before they're outside the walls. I read a letter I just sent to Howard yesterday or the day before where a former Corps couple had gotten themselves in debt, and they had responded to the admonitions and they just bought a beautiful new house on a straight cash basis. They owe nothing. They shared some of the details they went through--the ways the world tried to subtly get them to go in debt. They decided if they sold one of their extra cars and their camper then they'd have enough money to buy the house. Sometimes the most obvious isn't obvious until you get in a position where you have to think outside the context that you've lived in. I thought that was intriguing. They said they still have believers come up to them with excuses. That's like Acts 17: "We will hear thee again of this matter."
"outside the walls" doesn't sound too terrible unless you're intimately familiar with TWI lingo. He's saying outside the walls of the household where protection from God is. Outside the walls of Zion, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth - where people get killed.
quote: In my heart, if this thing works the way it's supposed to, and I believe it is to the best of our ability to this day, when us Trustees get together and we make a decision before God, whether it's something to teach or to implement in the practical realm, those that murmur against that in their minds and at times even among themselves, God says they're murmuring against Me. So those that are not persuaded on the present truth are murmuring against God, and eventually that contamination has to be flushed and eliminated.
And remember, I taught Numbers 12 where Miriam and Aaron murmured against Moses; they had obviously crossed the line. The name "Miriam" occurs 7 times. I said that was a perfect lesson, because Miriam was the instigator. ...
But she did spend 7 days out in netherland spiritually, isolated. I think that's an example of delivering someone over to Satan. Remember, Satan is indirect influences. What better way to explain delivering someone over to Satan than by their own treachery and their own unfaithfulness having to put them outside the protection of the household? Isn't that delivering someone over to Satan? I think it is.
So for some, they learn not to blaspheme, but others, it's for the destruction of their flesh, which is their whole body/soul life, which it's up to the adversary how that happens, understand? It's his business now. Some of them will look to prosper, be abundant; they won't even miss being in the household of God. But there is imme- diate spiritual consequences. They get possessed, or those spirits come in seven more wicked, and they are more locked away from the light of the True God and more fooled than ever. Some show more immediate physical consequences. We've had some of the Corps die, ordained clergy, but for the most part it's like Saul: the spirit realm will use them as long as they can be used. That's why it's absolutely ludicrous to look at it from a senses point of view.
One copped-out minister is making all kinds of money. So what? Does that impress you? Only from the point of view of what the spirit realm will do to cover itself--it impresses me there. But as if there's any truth there--there's not even an itch of a temptation. How could you even be tempted to think that? If you still are, the Word of God does not prevail in your mind, and you are teetering on disaster. This is not an open meeting. If you still wonder what it's like outside of The Way, if you're still playing with that idea or even considering what would I do if I left The Way Ministry, what are you doing?
. Rev. Moynihan sent me a letter from a guy that wrote and said, "We have no disagreement with where Rev. Martindale is taking the ministry. We just don't think we can live up to it anymore. Therefore we're leaving." That would be disobedience from another angle. They're not acting adamant; they're just saying they can't keep up with the quality of life we're expecting them to live, so they're leaving the household. Well, the consequences are the same. You go outside the walls of the city whether you're mad at how it's being orchestrated, or whether the standards are too high--you still get attacked by the wild beasts and the enemies outside the walls.
I'll quit after this - I hate long posts. So I apologize now for my extreme verboseness today.
This section here, though, really shows how TWI re-writes God's laws and enforces them as if they are in the Bible and for people to adhere to. If they don't follow the rules then they are put outside the protection of the household for being disobedient.
quote: So these admonitions to the Corps to get their bodies in control. Those who've copped out and are puffing cigarettes are saying I'm a Pharisee; ministry is legalistic because I've told people to quit smoking. Smoking has nothing to do with how spiritual you are until God makes it a commandment in the present truth of that day. The guidance in our day is to get our Corps in the best shape possible to stand and withstand the pressure to truly stand in the gap, that's why it's a commandment of the Lord. Not because you're righteous or unrighteous for smoking a cigarette. Then there's other things in the physical category we could require to help our people, but to me that was an obvious one.
Absof*%kinglutly amazing! Even though remember hearing most of this stuff, I'm still in utter disbelief. May they all hang by this man's words and deeds!
You just have to get this info to the lawyers for the Peelers. In addition I hope Seth get's his 'original' tapes to the attorneys. This could be a great open door for the Peelers.
If someone could post the address and information about how to reach the Peeler's attorneys,we could contact them by mail and that would also allow people who wrote letters to the BOT(D) when we left sent to the attorneys and have them notorized prior to sending then forward to the attorney. These letters have a wealth of information on the treatment of God's wonderful people (by staff on the field) and how they were trashed.
We all know about the way people were trashed and treated, so how can we all help.
BTW does anyone have the tapes from the last ROA where Craig talks about those flaming faggots etc. ranting and raving about flushing them out of the ministry? I think it was the last ROA tape ever done.
Wayward: No apologies necessary for those long posts. I hope you're able to get those letters to the Peelers. I'm sure Rosalie will try to wriggle out from under them by saying, "Well, he's gone," and she's sly enough not to put such words on paper or on tape and, instead, communicate the same edicts by means of "the Way tree." I hope the plaintiffs' attorneys are sharp enough to catch her in her lies.
One thing good for the Peelers and others that can support them is that the case spans a time period in which the abuses followed. The tapes from many, many corps nites and even SST are going to be incriminating. I sure hope whoever has a compliation of these can get them to the attorneys if they do not already have them.
Especially the bs about not having to take a class to be part of TWI. What a liar Rosy is.
People were hounded and even asked to leave the fellowship if they did not want to grow up spiritually and SIT's and be a 'fully functioning' believer by manifesting. What crap. If by the end of the intermediate class you were not 'fully functioning' many fellowship coordinators gave a time frame for the believer to 'grow up' and if not they were asked to leave until they got their $hit together. What coersion.........God get those tapes and letters out in the open where they belong and get this organization of infidels and liars out of influance on your people. Wolves in sheep's clothing, brute beasts.
...People were hounded and even asked to leave the fellowship if they did not want to grow up spiritually and SIT's and be a 'fully functioning' believer by manifesting. What crap. If by the end of the intermediate class you were not 'fully functioning' many fellowship coordinators gave a time frame for the believer to 'grow up' and if not they were asked to leave until they got their $hit together.
So it came to this huh...
This is very dissapointing to say the least. It wasn't at all like that when I was in. I can't even concieve thinking that way. Well I wonder how many of those people just blew off The Way International for their assinine behavior. I certainly know how I would have responded. At the least twi cut themselves off from potential abs funding. Not to mention the much bigger picture of shepherding God's flock. Man these guys have gotten sooo off the mark. They have totally lost sight of a christian ministry. How people can stay involved and put up with this sort of behavior and treatment is beyond me. I sure hope they can overcome whatever is hindering them from 'wiping the dust from there feet' and moving on with real life. I can be done and done successfully.
Perhaps the biggest key for this case to be won is to prove the BOT/BOD lied about the alleged *one time affair*! Strange and warped doctrines of devils are constitutionally protected and the defendants have highly honed their ability to slither out of corners as any good serpent can.
But, and I mean a big BUT!, if it can be documented that they lied about their knowledge of their former presidents activities and presented the well spun PR to keep people involved and sending in their money; that is a case they couldn’t win.
Its like what is your doctrine on adultery and they answer its wrong! Men should stick with their wife! But reword that to is it acceptable for those spiritually mature enough to get their sexual/physical needs meet outside of the marriage, that would be tougher for them to wiggle out of. But having the ability to hide behind freedoms we are granted, they still might slither out of that one.
If this documentation could be produced, then it would possibly swing the door wide open. Then their alleged *corporate veil* would be full of holes, chances of appeals would be minimized and all those that wanted to pursue getting their money back after the official press release stating that lie would have easy access.
Given my situation, if I make copies of these letters and send them to the law firm, I do not have to identify myself, do I?
If I do, then I should send these to someone who does not mind getting involved. This would cause more problems in my family than I care to have at this time. I do want to help and all these letters are on TWI letterhead, dated and signed.
If you send the info to the Peeler's attorneys and ask for anonimity, they probably would include them in their documents under what is called attorney work product.
It is my understanding that neither TWI, a judge, nor anyone else can require them at that point to reveal their source.
You might also want to consider sending them anonomously to Pat at excultworld, and I am sure he will get them in the right hands.
[This message was edited by IMF777 on January 26, 2004 at 16:46.]
I don't know if perjury can be done in a civil case. I suppose it can. If so, Rosalie is guilty of all kinds of perjury. I think the Peelers should go after that.
To answer your question: Perjury is lying under oath in any court testimony including the one being discussed or any other. It is also a criminal offense that may result in jail time.....
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WaywardWayfer
So they were leasing cars when they were telling us that it was debt and wrong? Figures.
I found some old letters from Craig to the WC. Would these help with the Peeler Lawsuit? I will make copies to send to them.
July 1994
“T…..M…., 17th Corps, who has been entrusted over the years with staff positions……has recently revealed himself as a practicing homosexual for many years. Despite clear teaching and adamant confrontation……therefore, I have recently declared to those directly involved and to the staff and corps here at International that he is to be “abandonedâ€. To deliver one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh means that the household should have nothing to do with him. He has rejected the teaching and love and help of the household….for years….therefore the ohnly thing that would genuinely get his mind to a place of considering honest spiritual sobriety is to deliver him over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, and that means complete adamdonment by those of us who love God and His Word and The Way Ministry…..Remember the homo spirits are adept liars, and their sincerity in asking for and acting like they want heolp is simply counterfeit…..â€
then it goes into the part about spiritual suspicion
“I’d like to say to you “closet†homosexuals in the Corps household that you’d better run, because you cannot hide! …. You will be exposed and embarrassed and flushed; so you might as well make up your mind now to get out….
“You female fags, called lesbians, might as well have dogs that lick your slimy twats as another woman!….You are an abomination to God and the household of The Way Corps and The Way Ministry….You should be thankful you’re not in the Old Testament times, because there are some of us who would gladly execute you. I would rejoice at that privilege….Embarrassment and ostracism from the Corps household is the least that we should do for you…..â€
June 1994
I gave M & S H……the ‘bum’s rush’ hout of here because of their hardness of heart and lack of ‘saltness’ were finally exposed after years of acting as if they really stood with the current Board of Trustees. Theyare nothing more or less than the same kind of ‘foggers’ that we moved out of here years ago, in that they don’t care what I think, only what Dr. Wierwille told them years ago.
In addition to the evil thinking engendered from those dropped from active Corps, some of those ‘busted back’ from their previous assignments (because of debt and other indications of spiritual slothfulness) allowed the adversary into their thoughts, and many of you who are friends of these are thinking evil because we have taken the stand that you should have taken! It’s time to clean house in an even more adamant manner….
We trustees have shown our leadership here how to dig out these cop-outs who have hidden in the household, taking the grace of
God in vain. The fact that I had to dig the M…. out of our Region leader fellowship…..shows how certain ones have deceptively entrenched themselves by their good words and fair speeches. ….it required straight revelation to smoke them out.
In recent Sunday Night Services, I boldly and clearly admonished the entire ministry (which would go double for the Corps and triple for the Clergy) on the salt covenant commitment that God expects out of the true disciples….It’s ‘open season’ and there is ‘no limit’; so let’s get the house clean and keep it that way.
someone looking for actual teaching about mark and avoid would probably find it in these tapes from early 1994 since this letter was from June.
There’s a letter to Rev. B Nxxxor and his wife about being dropped from active corps.
Then another letter where he talks about dropping corps for debt and probation periods….to get your attention that God means business about being out of debt 2) to give you time necessary to get on top of your expenses and income, making aggressive decisions to get out of debt and to show that you have to live up to the Word of God or we will not back you up and support you. …Debt is sin. To look at it any other way is rationalization and old man thinking….If yo disagree with this then drop yourself from active corps and save us from having to root you out….
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Radar OReilly
OMG! I wonder if anyone's lawyers would like copies of THOSE letters??????
I just don't understand how twi can sit in there and answer the deposition questions like they have been with all of these kinds of printed, official twi correspondence out there floating around....just waiting to bite them in the butt
RADAR
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sadie
Gosh Wayward, Martindale was truly a sick man and this was very evident from your above post.
I remember when our fellowships were at a STS awaiting for the announcements concerning the assignments of Way leadership. The Binkleys and the Roberts were waiting to hear if they were being transfered to another location.
If the ministry BOD doesn't tell you where to live then why did leadership sit there waiting for their next assignment to be announced. They sure fooled all of us sitting with them if they already knew.
I don't trust them, never did and that's why I'm not with them anymore.
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BackForty
OMG!!!
WTF happened to this guy???
--> 
And you guys that had to listen to this wacko B.S.
:(-->
____
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WaywardWayfer
I found these statements on the home page of GSpot. These are from the staff meeting notes and quotes from Craig:
"outside the walls" doesn't sound too terrible unless you're intimately familiar with TWI lingo. He's saying outside the walls of the household where protection from God is. Outside the walls of Zion, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth - where people get killed.
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WaywardWayfer
I'll quit after this - I hate long posts. So I apologize now for my extreme verboseness today.
This section here, though, really shows how TWI re-writes God's laws and enforces them as if they are in the Bible and for people to adhere to. If they don't follow the rules then they are put outside the protection of the household for being disobedient.
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BackForty
It would appear the author is now 'reaping what he has sewn'...
____
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ItsStillTheWord
---Thats where they were standing alright!
------------------------------------------------
Then there's other things in the physical category we could require to help our people..
---Hmmm!
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Cherished Child
Absof*%kinglutly amazing! Even though remember hearing most of this stuff, I'm still in utter disbelief. May they all hang by this man's words and deeds!
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LornaDoone
Wayward,
You just have to get this info to the lawyers for the Peelers. In addition I hope Seth get's his 'original' tapes to the attorneys. This could be a great open door for the Peelers.
If someone could post the address and information about how to reach the Peeler's attorneys,we could contact them by mail and that would also allow people who wrote letters to the BOT(D) when we left sent to the attorneys and have them notorized prior to sending then forward to the attorney. These letters have a wealth of information on the treatment of God's wonderful people (by staff on the field) and how they were trashed.
We all know about the way people were trashed and treated, so how can we all help.
BTW does anyone have the tapes from the last ROA where Craig talks about those flaming faggots etc. ranting and raving about flushing them out of the ministry? I think it was the last ROA tape ever done.
Lorna.......love my cookies!
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Linda Z
Wayward: No apologies necessary for those long posts. I hope you're able to get those letters to the Peelers. I'm sure Rosalie will try to wriggle out from under them by saying, "Well, he's gone," and she's sly enough not to put such words on paper or on tape and, instead, communicate the same edicts by means of "the Way tree." I hope the plaintiffs' attorneys are sharp enough to catch her in her lies.
Linda Z
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LornaDoone
One thing good for the Peelers and others that can support them is that the case spans a time period in which the abuses followed. The tapes from many, many corps nites and even SST are going to be incriminating. I sure hope whoever has a compliation of these can get them to the attorneys if they do not already have them.
Especially the bs about not having to take a class to be part of TWI. What a liar Rosy is.
People were hounded and even asked to leave the fellowship if they did not want to grow up spiritually and SIT's and be a 'fully functioning' believer by manifesting. What crap. If by the end of the intermediate class you were not 'fully functioning' many fellowship coordinators gave a time frame for the believer to 'grow up' and if not they were asked to leave until they got their $hit together. What coersion.........God get those tapes and letters out in the open where they belong and get this organization of infidels and liars out of influance on your people. Wolves in sheep's clothing, brute beasts.
Lorna.......love my cookies!
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justwannabeme
Have the documents been removed? I tried to but couldn't get them to come up.
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shazdancer
"...So these admonitions to the Corps to get their bodies in control...."
Geez, Craig, you couldn't keep your pants zipped, and you were worried about people smoking?!
Megalomaniac, out of control.
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BackForty
So it came to this huh...
This is very dissapointing to say the least. It wasn't at all like that when I was in. I can't even concieve thinking that way. Well I wonder how many of those people just blew off The Way International for their assinine behavior. I certainly know how I would have responded. At the least twi cut themselves off from potential abs funding. Not to mention the much bigger picture of shepherding God's flock. Man these guys have gotten sooo off the mark. They have totally lost sight of a christian ministry. How people can stay involved and put up with this sort of behavior and treatment is beyond me. I sure hope they can overcome whatever is hindering them from 'wiping the dust from there feet' and moving on with real life. I can be done and done successfully.
____
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Grizzy
just my couple of cents worth...........
Perhaps the biggest key for this case to be won is to prove the BOT/BOD lied about the alleged *one time affair*! Strange and warped doctrines of devils are constitutionally protected and the defendants have highly honed their ability to slither out of corners as any good serpent can.
But, and I mean a big BUT!, if it can be documented that they lied about their knowledge of their former presidents activities and presented the well spun PR to keep people involved and sending in their money; that is a case they couldn’t win.
Its like what is your doctrine on adultery and they answer its wrong! Men should stick with their wife! But reword that to is it acceptable for those spiritually mature enough to get their sexual/physical needs meet outside of the marriage, that would be tougher for them to wiggle out of. But having the ability to hide behind freedoms we are granted, they still might slither out of that one.
If this documentation could be produced, then it would possibly swing the door wide open. Then their alleged *corporate veil* would be full of holes, chances of appeals would be minimized and all those that wanted to pursue getting their money back after the official press release stating that lie would have easy access.
God Bless America; SIZE>
Grizz SIZE>
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IMF777
The contact information for the Peeler's attorneys was just posted at:
http://www.excultworld.com/Lawsuit%20Docum...evidentiary.htm
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Seth
Oh, BTW I did some research because I wanted to send the lawyers my tapes and stuff, so I found this:
http://www.chattanooga-law.com/
Horton, Maddox, & Anderson, PLLC
Attorneys and Counselors at Law
One Central Plaza, Sixth Floor
835 Georgia Ave
Chattanooga, TN 37402
Telephone: (423) 265-2560
Facsimile: (423) 265-3039
General Email: hma@chattanooga-law.com
After talking to a one of their representatives they said to forward everything to Carol M. Ballard
Seth
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain
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tony
Has anyone been in contact with this law firm?
Long Live Israel !
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WaywardWayfer
Given my situation, if I make copies of these letters and send them to the law firm, I do not have to identify myself, do I?
If I do, then I should send these to someone who does not mind getting involved. This would cause more problems in my family than I care to have at this time. I do want to help and all these letters are on TWI letterhead, dated and signed.
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BackForty
Hey BOD, ooops!!!...
:o--> 
:D-->
____
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IMF777
Dear WaywardWayfer,
If you send the info to the Peeler's attorneys and ask for anonimity, they probably would include them in their documents under what is called attorney work product.
It is my understanding that neither TWI, a judge, nor anyone else can require them at that point to reveal their source.
You might also want to consider sending them anonomously to Pat at excultworld, and I am sure he will get them in the right hands.
[This message was edited by IMF777 on January 26, 2004 at 16:46.]
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MarkedAndAvoided
I don't know if perjury can be done in a civil case. I suppose it can. If so, Rosalie is guilty of all kinds of perjury. I think the Peelers should go after that.
Marked and Avoided
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IMF777
MarkedandAvoided,
To answer your question: Perjury is lying under oath in any court testimony including the one being discussed or any other. It is also a criminal offense that may result in jail time.....
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