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Actual Errors in PFAL


Raf
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Interesting site, David. I thought it was interesting that they don't list ANY names (leaders, fellowships or participants any more). Maybe they never did as S&T, but seemed to me that the old CES site had all the old ex-twi folks listed.

J.

Hey there J. :)

I don't remember CES ever listing ex-twi folks. I could be wrong,

but are you thinking of the Cortright site??

Here is the BELIEVER LINK from them.

This is the only one I know of, but maybe there are others too.

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No, when JAL and the other guys whose names escape me at the moment first started CES, they had their pics and names on the site and bios even. AND they had a listing of CES sanctioned fellowships (long time ago). Maybe they changed it after the JAL changes.

No, I'm not thinking of the Cortright site. I'm familiar with that too.

J.

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No, when JAL and the other guys whose names escape me at the moment first started CES, they had their pics and names on the site and bios even. AND they had a listing of CES sanctioned fellowships (long time ago). Maybe they changed it after the JAL changes.

No, I'm not thinking of the Cortright site. I'm familiar with that too.

J.

Oh -- OK. :) I got my first comuper 3 years ago in 2003,

so I guess I don't know what they did (web-wise) in the earlier days of CES.

Sorry -- I thought you meant a more comprehensive link of ex-twi folks,

and not just the bios of a few, etc.

Truth or Tradition deals with topics, articles, and questions more than the personalities behind the articles.

Same goes with the other site they operate Biblical Unitarian, which deals mostly with trinitarian issues.

I haven't logged onto STFI recently -- but last time I did, they had a bunch of *bios* there

about the staff on board (these days)

Edited by dmiller
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greg 123--------Welcome to the amusement park formally known as Grease Spot Cafe. It seems you have gotten in line for the world famous roller coaster ride Known as "Errors In PFAL". It's a bumpy one for sure, and seatbelts are mandatory. There are, if you prefer, many other rides in this park and I hope you stick around and sample a few. Some of them are a bit nostalgic while others seem to be just plain silly.

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I do not know Lamsa's motives.

I do know there is an Aramaic word lama and it means why.

Incidentally, this is the same conclusion Walter Cummins came to, which is why TWI's very own Aramaic interlinear translation of this verse is different from Lamsa's.

Am I to assume that Walter Cummins was trying to pull the wool over our eyes? Or that he's a liar?

If the translation should be "for this purpose I was spared," then why, of ALL organizations, did TWI itself discredit it in a research book? It was in TWI's interest to let Lamsa's translation stand. They could look like they were right all along. But when they looked at the evidence, they realized Wierwille's view, Lamsa's view, was wrong. They could have looked the other way and perpetuated what they'd been teaching all along, but they didn't. Will you?

Edited by Raf
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...and Greg, while I recommend reading this whole thread, if you don't have the time, "Actual Errors" refer, not to doctrinal disagreements, but to easily documented errors in fract.

For example, the correctness or incorrectness of the Trinity would not be considered, because that would be a doctrinal argument.

An "actual error" might be an instance where Wierwille misquotes a section of scripture, or gives an incorrect definition of a Greek or Hebrew word, or to cite a specific example, where he says that modern Yiddish is the old Khazar tongue written with Hebrew characters. :blink:

The idea was not to bash Wierwille, but to counter a poster who claimed that PFAL was God-breathed.

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Welcome to GSC Greg.

This thread is not just finding verses that disagree with Wierwille, TWI, but actual instances where the MOGFOT got it wrong. Raf and others et al did a great job documenting the actual errors.

What you have to do is decide how to respond to those errors and the logic and conclusions based on the errors.

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  • 4 months later...

This is the kind of stuff that scares the crap out of me. "God gave PFAL". I don't think so, God gave the world.............what makes anyone think that he chose one group, just one group, a very very very very small group, to "comletely understand" the "REAL" Bible........................makes me wanna run away, and tell everyone I know to run away from PFAL and any branches of PFAL as fast as possible.

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  • 5 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

It would be nice to have references to the collaterals and/or session of the class.

For example, as I recall, with #4, "throughly" and "thoroughly," he was not teaching on the words themselves,but on how people will mistake the two.

With #9, while the Gospels were received after the Day of Pentacost, they do not contain the doctrine to the church of the body. The lesson is that many want to take us back to the period described in the Gospels, and therefore deny what Christ accomplished in his death, resurrection and ascension.

It is important that we see how the spiritual landscape changed so drastically and not confuse that which is given for our learning for that which is given for our doctrine.

We can learn from Genesis 2 and 3 without believing we are under the law regarding the tree...

And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.

Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.

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It would be nice to have references to the collaterals and/or session of the class.

For example, as I recall, with #4, "throughly" and "thoroughly," he was not teaching on the words themselves,but on how people will mistake the two.

With #9, while the Gospels were received after the Day of Pentacost, they do not contain the doctrine to the church of the body. The lesson is that many want to take us back to the period described in the Gospels, and therefore deny what Christ accomplished in his death, resurrection and ascension.

It is important that we see how the spiritual landscape changed so drastically and not confuse that which is given for our learning for that which is given for our doctrine.

We can learn from Genesis 2 and 3 without believing we are under the law regarding the tree...

And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.

Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.

Deciderator

The 2 words you referenced are one and the same.

They have the same meaning.

One is simply an obsolete form of the other.

Wierwille taught that one was an intensified version of the other.

It is not.

He did this to amplify segments of that teaching disproportionately.(IMO)

That is an error, plain and simple.

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Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.

True enough. On the other hand, passing off error as truth does the truth no favors.

As was true for Jeremiah, the path to truth begins with laying the ax to the root, digging up, tearing down, pulling down. All of that is necessary before the true building can be built.

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And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.

Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.

If you had read this thread from the beginning you should realize that this thread was started in response to a poster who claimed that PFAL was godbreathed and had for all intents and purposes replaced the bible.

And I would venture to say that exposing lies as truth would most assuredly build one up.

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