Interesting site, David. I thought it was interesting that they don't list ANY names (leaders, fellowships or participants any more). Maybe they never did as S&T, but seemed to me that the old CES site had all the old ex-twi folks listed.
J.
Hey there J. :)
I don't remember CES ever listing ex-twi folks. I could be wrong,
No, when JAL and the other guys whose names escape me at the moment first started CES, they had their pics and names on the site and bios even. AND they had a listing of CES sanctioned fellowships (long time ago). Maybe they changed it after the JAL changes.
No, I'm not thinking of the Cortright site. I'm familiar with that too.
No, when JAL and the other guys whose names escape me at the moment first started CES, they had their pics and names on the site and bios even. AND they had a listing of CES sanctioned fellowships (long time ago). Maybe they changed it after the JAL changes.
No, I'm not thinking of the Cortright site. I'm familiar with that too.
J.
Oh -- OK. :) I got my first comuper 3 years ago in 2003,
so I guess I don't know what they did (web-wise) in the earlier days of CES.
Sorry -- I thought you meant a more comprehensive link of ex-twi folks,
and not just the bios of a few, etc.
Truth or Tradition deals with topics, articles, and questions more than the personalities behind the articles.
Same goes with the other site they operate Biblical Unitarian, which deals mostly with trinitarian issues.
I haven't logged onto STFI recently -- but last time I did, they had a bunch of *bios* there
greg 123--------Welcome to the amusement park formally known as Grease Spot Cafe. It seems you have gotten in line for the world famous roller coaster ride Known as "Errors In PFAL". It's a bumpy one for sure, and seatbelts are mandatory. There are, if you prefer, many other rides in this park and I hope you stick around and sample a few. Some of them are a bit nostalgic while others seem to be just plain silly.
I do know there is an Aramaic word lama and it means why.
Incidentally, this is the same conclusion Walter Cummins came to, which is why TWI's very own Aramaic interlinear translation of this verse is different from Lamsa's.
Am I to assume that Walter Cummins was trying to pull the wool over our eyes? Or that he's a liar?
If the translation should be "for this purpose I was spared," then why, of ALL organizations, did TWI itself discredit it in a research book? It was in TWI's interest to let Lamsa's translation stand. They could look like they were right all along. But when they looked at the evidence, they realized Wierwille's view, Lamsa's view, was wrong. They could have looked the other way and perpetuated what they'd been teaching all along, but they didn't. Will you?
...and Greg, while I recommend reading this whole thread, if you don't have the time, "Actual Errors" refer, not to doctrinal disagreements, but to easily documented errors in fract.
For example, the correctness or incorrectness of the Trinity would not be considered, because that would be a doctrinal argument.
An "actual error" might be an instance where Wierwille misquotes a section of scripture, or gives an incorrect definition of a Greek or Hebrew word, or to cite a specific example, where he says that modern Yiddish is the old Khazar tongue written with Hebrew characters. :blink:
The idea was not to bash Wierwille, but to counter a poster who claimed that PFAL was God-breathed.
This thread is not just finding verses that disagree with Wierwille, TWI, but actual instances where the MOGFOT got it wrong. Raf and others et al did a great job documenting the actual errors.
What you have to do is decide how to respond to those errors and the logic and conclusions based on the errors.
Since there was no punctuation in the originals, (as vpw himself said) could his take on the parenthetical phrases in John 1 and Colossians be seen as an error. Who says these are parenthetical phrases anyway?
I don't think it's been covered, def. Anyway, according to the customs of this thread, that would be Wierwille's opinion, and not an "actual error". Good topic for a thread though.
This is the kind of stuff that scares the crap out of me. "God gave PFAL". I don't think so, God gave the world.............what makes anyone think that he chose one group, just one group, a very very very very small group, to "comletely understand" the "REAL" Bible........................makes me wanna run away, and tell everyone I know to run away from PFAL and any branches of PFAL as fast as possible.
It would be nice to have references to the collaterals and/or session of the class.
For example, as I recall, with #4, "throughly" and "thoroughly," he was not teaching on the words themselves,but on how people will mistake the two.
With #9, while the Gospels were received after the Day of Pentacost, they do not contain the doctrine to the church of the body. The lesson is that many want to take us back to the period described in the Gospels, and therefore deny what Christ accomplished in his death, resurrection and ascension.
It is important that we see how the spiritual landscape changed so drastically and not confuse that which is given for our learning for that which is given for our doctrine.
We can learn from Genesis 2 and 3 without believing we are under the law regarding the tree...
And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.
It would be nice to have references to the collaterals and/or session of the class.
For example, as I recall, with #4, "throughly" and "thoroughly," he was not teaching on the words themselves,but on how people will mistake the two.
With #9, while the Gospels were received after the Day of Pentacost, they do not contain the doctrine to the church of the body. The lesson is that many want to take us back to the period described in the Gospels, and therefore deny what Christ accomplished in his death, resurrection and ascension.
It is important that we see how the spiritual landscape changed so drastically and not confuse that which is given for our learning for that which is given for our doctrine.
We can learn from Genesis 2 and 3 without believing we are under the law regarding the tree...
And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.
Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.
Deciderator
The 2 words you referenced are one and the same.
They have the same meaning.
One is simply an obsolete form of the other.
Wierwille taught that one was an intensified version of the other.
It is not.
He did this to amplify segments of that teaching disproportionately.(IMO)
True enough. On the other hand, passing off error as truth does the truth no favors.
As was true for Jeremiah, the path to truth begins with laying the ax to the root, digging up, tearing down, pulling down. All of that is necessary before the true building can be built.
And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.
Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.
If you had read this thread from the beginning you should realize that this thread was started in response to a poster who claimed that PFAL was godbreathed and had for all intents and purposes replaced the bible.
And I would venture to say that exposing lies as truth would most assuredly build one up.
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Raf
Clear as the difference between all with a distinction and all without distinction. See, to those unaware of the circumstances that brought about this thread, I look like I'm nitpicking to prove Wier
Raf
I'm not talking about errors that are subject to interpretation. Whether you believe the dead are alive now, for example, really depends on your worldview and your interpretation of scripture. Whether
Larry P2
And let's not forget the one about "All the women in the Kingdom belong to the King." Which proves that he was a lecherous piece of sh!t communicating his desire for a steady stream of young, gullibl
dmiller
Hey there J. :)
I don't remember CES ever listing ex-twi folks. I could be wrong,
but are you thinking of the Cortright site??
Here is the BELIEVER LINK from them.
This is the only one I know of, but maybe there are others too.
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jardinero
No, when JAL and the other guys whose names escape me at the moment first started CES, they had their pics and names on the site and bios even. AND they had a listing of CES sanctioned fellowships (long time ago). Maybe they changed it after the JAL changes.
No, I'm not thinking of the Cortright site. I'm familiar with that too.
J.
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dmiller
Oh -- OK. :) I got my first comuper 3 years ago in 2003,
so I guess I don't know what they did (web-wise) in the earlier days of CES.
Sorry -- I thought you meant a more comprehensive link of ex-twi folks,
and not just the bios of a few, etc.
Truth or Tradition deals with topics, articles, and questions more than the personalities behind the articles.
Same goes with the other site they operate Biblical Unitarian, which deals mostly with trinitarian issues.
I haven't logged onto STFI recently -- but last time I did, they had a bunch of *bios* there
about the staff on board (these days)
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waysider
greg 123--------Welcome to the amusement park formally known as Grease Spot Cafe. It seems you have gotten in line for the world famous roller coaster ride Known as "Errors In PFAL". It's a bumpy one for sure, and seatbelts are mandatory. There are, if you prefer, many other rides in this park and I hope you stick around and sample a few. Some of them are a bit nostalgic while others seem to be just plain silly.
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Raf
I do not know Lamsa's motives.
I do know there is an Aramaic word lama and it means why.
Incidentally, this is the same conclusion Walter Cummins came to, which is why TWI's very own Aramaic interlinear translation of this verse is different from Lamsa's.
Am I to assume that Walter Cummins was trying to pull the wool over our eyes? Or that he's a liar?
If the translation should be "for this purpose I was spared," then why, of ALL organizations, did TWI itself discredit it in a research book? It was in TWI's interest to let Lamsa's translation stand. They could look like they were right all along. But when they looked at the evidence, they realized Wierwille's view, Lamsa's view, was wrong. They could have looked the other way and perpetuated what they'd been teaching all along, but they didn't. Will you?
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Raf
By the way, Greg, welcome.
We can really be a friendly bunch here. I hope the sharpness of this first exchange doesn't put you off.
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Oakspear
...and Greg, while I recommend reading this whole thread, if you don't have the time, "Actual Errors" refer, not to doctrinal disagreements, but to easily documented errors in fract.
For example, the correctness or incorrectness of the Trinity would not be considered, because that would be a doctrinal argument.
An "actual error" might be an instance where Wierwille misquotes a section of scripture, or gives an incorrect definition of a Greek or Hebrew word, or to cite a specific example, where he says that modern Yiddish is the old Khazar tongue written with Hebrew characters. :blink:
The idea was not to bash Wierwille, but to counter a poster who claimed that PFAL was God-breathed.
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Raf
Agreed. This thread is NOT about VPW, but about PFAL and the other books.
Who wrote the books... is incidental.
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def59
Welcome to GSC Greg.
This thread is not just finding verses that disagree with Wierwille, TWI, but actual instances where the MOGFOT got it wrong. Raf and others et al did a great job documenting the actual errors.
What you have to do is decide how to respond to those errors and the logic and conclusions based on the errors.
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Sudo
Yeah Greg,
Take your shoes off and put your feet up. We LIKE you, dude! :)
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GrouchoMarxJr
Hmmm...My question is...
...What is an atheist like Sudo doing in a thread that discusses biblical perspectives?
"my God, my God, for this purpose did I get a root canal"...
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def59
Maybe this has been covered.
Since there was no punctuation in the originals, (as vpw himself said) could his take on the parenthetical phrases in John 1 and Colossians be seen as an error. Who says these are parenthetical phrases anyway?
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Oakspear
I don't think it's been covered, def. Anyway, according to the customs of this thread, that would be Wierwille's opinion, and not an "actual error". Good topic for a thread though.
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Wendy
This is the kind of stuff that scares the crap out of me. "God gave PFAL". I don't think so, God gave the world.............what makes anyone think that he chose one group, just one group, a very very very very small group, to "comletely understand" the "REAL" Bible........................makes me wanna run away, and tell everyone I know to run away from PFAL and any branches of PFAL as fast as possible.
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Oakspear
When I googled my name, as was suggested by another thread, I came up with a reference to this thread!
Worth the bump IMHO
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Deciderator
It would be nice to have references to the collaterals and/or session of the class.
For example, as I recall, with #4, "throughly" and "thoroughly," he was not teaching on the words themselves,but on how people will mistake the two.
With #9, while the Gospels were received after the Day of Pentacost, they do not contain the doctrine to the church of the body. The lesson is that many want to take us back to the period described in the Gospels, and therefore deny what Christ accomplished in his death, resurrection and ascension.
It is important that we see how the spiritual landscape changed so drastically and not confuse that which is given for our learning for that which is given for our doctrine.
We can learn from Genesis 2 and 3 without believing we are under the law regarding the tree...
And I await Raf holding forth the Word of Truth he has worked so I may benefit from that teaching.
Tearing someone down doesn't build me up.
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waysider
Deciderator
The 2 words you referenced are one and the same.
They have the same meaning.
One is simply an obsolete form of the other.
Wierwille taught that one was an intensified version of the other.
It is not.
He did this to amplify segments of that teaching disproportionately.(IMO)
That is an error, plain and simple.
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TheEvan
True enough. On the other hand, passing off error as truth does the truth no favors.
As was true for Jeremiah, the path to truth begins with laying the ax to the root, digging up, tearing down, pulling down. All of that is necessary before the true building can be built.
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Oakspear
And I would venture to say that exposing lies as truth would most assuredly build one up.
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Tom Strange
*bump*
for our 'newer' readers that may have not had a chance to read this thread... yet!
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Bumpy
Stop that, it huuurts my head!
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George Aar
I'd submit that the biggest actual error was in anybody ever taking the damned thing to begin with...
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Tom Strange
well Geo, I would agree that was OUR biggest error...
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Ham
just figured this is where current discussion on the snow thread should go.. we already have forty-three pages. What's forty three more?
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