Just like the last time you brought up CSBP mixed in another context, you do it again. Do you have trouble focusing on one thing? Can’t you see there’s a conversation going on here and you’re interrupting?
I offered to work with you in private and you ignored it. What’s your problem?
quote:There’s a lot of surprises awaiting those who come back to PFAL and really start learning the Word of God.
In the context of coming back to PFAL, as you suggested, I responded because CSBP is part of The Original Wierwille PFAL Writings, and I have certainly strayed from that original teaching.
I think this is a legitimate and very important question that pertains to all of us if what you say is true that we need to come back to the original PFAL Writings. In my judgment, this shouldn't be kept private either.
quote:I’ve been pondering all these things for 6 years.
You’ve put about 6 minutes of thought, if that much, into it.
As if the amount if time spent in error makes a difference.
I worked with a carpenter once. He had 30 years "experience". He still couldn't drive a nail straight or use a level properly. All you had to do was look at the nails or put a level along a one of his window sills.
The amount of time you have pondered these things is irrelevant to thier veracity.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
I was stunned when I read the last chapter just a few years ago and again lately. It's quite rich. I could never get that far in the past, and these were my first readings ever!
How about you? Read the whole thing lately?
For many years, after the meltdown, I refused to give to any splinter groups because, like politicians, they were so stingy with conversation with me.
Instead, I’d give waitresses bigger tips, or I’d occasionally give a $20 bill to a homeless person. For years I did alternate ways of giving like that constantly, because I knew the law of giving was real. I realized it wasn’t the BEST way to give, but it was worse giving it to reprobate Corpse Nazis. When I finally learned how to tithe to Jesus Christ himself, I felt much better.
You are extremely bothered by CSBP, but you’ve got to get over it.
This is what Dr wrote in OMSW wrote from the book of Joshua Chapter 24 about money hang-ups, on pages 177-179:
And I have given you a land for which ye did not labour, and cities which ye built not, and ye dwell in them; of the vineyards and oliveyards which ye planted not do ye eat.
I often think of how God has done things like this for us today--He has given us things which we did not deserve, victories which we did not achieve, things that from our point of view we should never have had. God just handed them over to us.
After reviewing with the children of Israel what God had done for them, Joshua next reminded them of their responsibility to God.
Verse 14:
Now therefore fear [reverence, respect, hold in awe] the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord.
The first command Joshua gave the people was to rid themselves of any other gods. Whenever anyone has a god other than the one true God, that person is in trouble. So long as Israel was faithful and served the one true God, God delivered them.
I know that God's Word is talking about literal idols here, and today you may not have an idol or a statue of a god. But you still can have a god other than the one true God. Your god could be a job, a social position, food, or a hobby--just anything that is more important to you than doing God's will. What is first in your life? What is your god? Joshua told the children of Israel to get rid of anything that stood in the way of serving the one true God. If money is still more important to you than God, you have a god--money. That is what is meant by the expression, "Put your wallet on the altar. Dedicate it to God." You have to get to the place that there is only one God in your life, and that God is the true God, Jehovah, and He is the only one you will serve. He is the one to whom you are dedicated. Everything else in life is secondary. Matthew 6 tells us this.
Matthew 6:33:
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you.
The only way to real success is to have the one true God and to put Him first in your life. The decision to serve the one true God and no other gods was Joshua's concern in his final instructions to the children of Israel before he died.
Sorry, but your post at the top of this page slipped by me until just now.
I must go to work for now, but you can start INDIRECTLY pondering CSBP by asking yourself this question:
Is free will fully explained in the Bible?
I mean the kind of free will we know of today, as opposed to robotic conditioned responses. Modern science has us all thinking that we are machines, and that every word or action we act out, and ever every thought, is a mechanically determined from the prior set of nerve synapse configurations in our brain. So, by my question I mean this: how do we see from the Bible that we are NOT automatons? In philosophy this topic is called “free will vs. determinism.â€
Think about this question for a while. I want to see chapters and verses.
***
Here’s another clue to understanding CSBP. It’s very indirect, but later they will connect.
How do you know from the Bible that God had long ago real, total, 100% foreknowledge of every event including YOU, your personality, and all of your free will decisions?
Or, how do you know from the Bible that CES is dead wrong in how they teach God is stuck in time like us, and that He only has His plans for the future and a lot of power to make them happen.
Again, modern science forbids any kind of foreknowledge at all, and only guessing or prediction of the future is possible. The Principle of Uncertainty in Physics, and a more obscure mathematical principle like it (see Penrose’s “The Emeror’s New Mindâ€), both forbid absolute foreknowledge.
So how do you prove from the Bible that, again, modern science must be missing something.
quote:He needed the new birth just as much as we need it.
It was NOT available to him or any other man before Pentecost.
His new birth was the ressurection. He was the reason it was available to others to be 'born of God' on the day of Pentecost.
YOU miss the whole point of what he did in your fanatical pursuit of PLAF over the world.
Accusing me, us?, of trinitarianism is just another one of your dodges... you still haven't answered what I perceive to be a simple, straightforward question with a simple yes or no answer: Do you believe that Jesus Christ will be teaching us from PLAF?
A simple yes or no will do. No need to pontificate here...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
YOU"RE missing my entire message in your frantic effort to nullify my posting here.
I'm not interested in your guessing.
Where did you read in the Bible that the resurrection was when Jesus got spiritual seed, pneuma hagion born within?
How long have you maintained this doctrine of yours.
Did you just make it up?
Did you read it in a book that has no error?
It this book your unbreakable Standard that you’re willing to place on my Table of Challenge?
I think you’re winging it again.
I’m only interested in doing what Dr told us to do in his final instructions. That teaching was lost to prevent us from coming back to PFAL and learning the next steps. You aren’t going to get me to follow you and you ad hoc religion.
As to your simple straightforward question, you are so tied up in knots contradicting me you can’t see my answer as I posted it thus far. What makes you think you’ll see it in another post?
just say "yes" or say "no" to answer the question Michael... no B.S... no pussyfooting around... just answer that one simple question... did you really say that? do you really believe that?
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
You didn't see my response to you several days ago, because you aren't reading all that I post. You sample it only, and then shoot from the hip of only having partial knowledge of my position.
I just recently read your posts on RG's original thread "exposing" me even before I posted a single time. Your position hasn';t changed. You made up your mind long before I came here. You've NEVER closely read what I post.
At least YOU are doing some reading of my posts to be able to ask a question like that!
I must get to work, however, so just ponder the two things I gave you, and find for me all the verses you base your beliefs in foreknowledge and free will on.
I have an already written post for Tom, so after that one I’m gone.
Feel free to e-mail me and I will be more free to answer many more things than I can here.
I’m making you the poster boy of “Blind Reading†because I have already answered that very explicitly. Careful readers of my posts will come across your badgering and say to themselves, “That Tom Strange is pretty stupid. He is so obsessed with contradicting Mike, he can’t even read what’s right in front of him!â€
If you want to tag along my threads and try to do nothing but cause confusion, then the price you will pay is my not regarding your requests for another iteration of my clearly posted position.
You are lazy, and I will refer you back to my already posted position.
Just start reading for a while instead of shooting off your ignorant mouth through your keyboard. I’m not sure which thread it’s on, but this thread has only had a few pages added on in recent weeks.
I’d start reading the “Masters†thread. If anything it will give you more substantive information with which to pull your pranky posts. Maybe if you actually READ it you’ll actually believe it!!!
Mike, I'll come right out and tell ya... (I'm sure others would as well without compunction)... I don't read most of your stuff... and I won't...
I'm just asking you this simple "yes" or "no" question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ will be teaching from the PFAL books?
"Yes" or "No". Which is it?
A couple of posts back you stated that I'd only put about "6 minutes of thought into it"... heck, if I put that much it would be too much...
and I don't want you to spend a lot of time on the answer to my question either... just "yes" or "no"... if you weren't so tied up in dodging and deflecting I'd have had an answer on the last page... and your fingers wouldn't be as tired.
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
now the "real" "Christian" Mike comes out... oooh... name calling, mud slinging... ouch... oooh...
Say what you want dude, it doesn't change anything other than you're afraid to give a straightforward answer to a straightforward question.
I can only surmize from your non-denial in your answer to Doze on page 33 that your answer is "yes"... I don't know why it's a big deal to you... I'm not going to argue with you about it... there's no use in that...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
For the life of me I can't understand why someone who acts so sure and convinced of himself has such trouble giving straightforward answers to straighforward questions...
does he become a sweating heap of nerves when leaving the grocery store when they ask him "paper or plastic"?
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
quote:I must get to work, however, so just ponder the two things I gave you, and find for me all the verses you base your beliefs in foreknowledge and free will on.
Mike, that sounds like a plan but some things have come up and I'm completely out of time.
Speaking of paper and plastic, I wrote up a piece for a local tiny newspaper several years ago, part of a personal series of writs I've done on the unusual and strange experiences I've had while shopping. Keeping in mind that while I enjoy certain types of very select shopping, (the get in get out quickie skirmishes are fine-sometimes) I have never been able to adapt mentally or emotionally to the all-out onslaught of grocery shopping in a large supermarket. It's just too weird.
Anyway, several years ago I really had to go to the store to get something, and I hadn't been to a large supermarket for quite awhile, since they started doing the paper or plastic bag thing. It might have been a year or longer.
Anyway, I get there and get rung up and I'm alone, no wife, no cover, and it's really busy. So the bagger guy says "Paper or plastic" and I had no idea what he was talking about. I tried to ignore it by pretending I didn't hear, and then he asks me again, more insistent. People in the line are starting to murmur, I'm holding up The Line. Then it hit me. He had to be asking me if I was going to PAY for stuff with PAPER - (actual cash), or PLASTIC - (credit card). Which of course wasn't what he meant. But I pulled out my wallet and waved the guy off, "No thanks, plastic's too expensive to use, here..." and handed him a 20 dollar bill.
It got a little weird after that, but I did get everything paid for finally and left. I was good to go for awhile after that, until several months later when I went to buy some Sliced Cheese and Hot Dog buns. THAT got brutal.
I was standing all alone against the world outside. You were searching for a place to hide....
Now I've found you, there's no more emptiness inside. When we're hungry love will keep us alive.
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T-Bone
Great posts Rocky & Waysider ! Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage: 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and
Bolshevik
He tells them to be joyful. Doesn't explain how. The Word says be joyful *POOF* you are now joyful. Like when claiming verses. Craftily disconnects the motive from the action. . . .
WordWolf
Yes. BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before: "Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master
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Mike
oldiesman,
Just like the last time you brought up CSBP mixed in another context, you do it again. Do you have trouble focusing on one thing? Can’t you see there’s a conversation going on here and you’re interrupting?
I offered to work with you in private and you ignored it. What’s your problem?
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oldiesman
Mike, you said:
In the context of coming back to PFAL, as you suggested, I responded because CSBP is part of The Original Wierwille PFAL Writings, and I have certainly strayed from that original teaching.
I think this is a legitimate and very important question that pertains to all of us if what you say is true that we need to come back to the original PFAL Writings. In my judgment, this shouldn't be kept private either.
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Goey
As if the amount if time spent in error makes a difference.
I worked with a carpenter once. He had 30 years "experience". He still couldn't drive a nail straight or use a level properly. All you had to do was look at the nails or put a level along a one of his window sills.
The amount of time you have pondered these things is irrelevant to thier veracity.
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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Mike
oldiesman,
Well, the conversation seems to be over.
Tell me this: Have you actually read CSBP lately?
I was stunned when I read the last chapter just a few years ago and again lately. It's quite rich. I could never get that far in the past, and these were my first readings ever!
How about you? Read the whole thing lately?
For many years, after the meltdown, I refused to give to any splinter groups because, like politicians, they were so stingy with conversation with me.
Instead, I’d give waitresses bigger tips, or I’d occasionally give a $20 bill to a homeless person. For years I did alternate ways of giving like that constantly, because I knew the law of giving was real. I realized it wasn’t the BEST way to give, but it was worse giving it to reprobate Corpse Nazis. When I finally learned how to tithe to Jesus Christ himself, I felt much better.
You are extremely bothered by CSBP, but you’ve got to get over it.
This is what Dr wrote in OMSW wrote from the book of Joshua Chapter 24 about money hang-ups, on pages 177-179:
*************************************************************
Verse 13:
And I have given you a land for which ye did not labour, and cities which ye built not, and ye dwell in them; of the vineyards and oliveyards which ye planted not do ye eat.
I often think of how God has done things like this for us today--He has given us things which we did not deserve, victories which we did not achieve, things that from our point of view we should never have had. God just handed them over to us.
After reviewing with the children of Israel what God had done for them, Joshua next reminded them of their responsibility to God.
Verse 14:
Now therefore fear [reverence, respect, hold in awe] the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord.
The first command Joshua gave the people was to rid themselves of any other gods. Whenever anyone has a god other than the one true God, that person is in trouble. So long as Israel was faithful and served the one true God, God delivered them.
I know that God's Word is talking about literal idols here, and today you may not have an idol or a statue of a god. But you still can have a god other than the one true God. Your god could be a job, a social position, food, or a hobby--just anything that is more important to you than doing God's will. What is first in your life? What is your god? Joshua told the children of Israel to get rid of anything that stood in the way of serving the one true God. If money is still more important to you than God, you have a god--money. That is what is meant by the expression, "Put your wallet on the altar. Dedicate it to God." You have to get to the place that there is only one God in your life, and that God is the true God, Jehovah, and He is the only one you will serve. He is the one to whom you are dedicated. Everything else in life is secondary. Matthew 6 tells us this.
Matthew 6:33:
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
and all these things shall be added unto you.
The only way to real success is to have the one true God and to put Him first in your life. The decision to serve the one true God and no other gods was Joshua's concern in his final instructions to the children of Israel before he died.
************************************************************
Oldiesman, is money your god? Is that why you constantly moan about CSBP?
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Mike
Hey! Look at that! The phrase "final instructions" near the end of my last post.
Who was I talking to yesterday about studying final last words in the Bible? I forgot about this one.
I guess this brings us BACK ON TOPIC!!!
.
.
.
[This message was edited by Mike on March 08, 2004 at 15:24.]
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Mike
oldiesman,
Sorry, but your post at the top of this page slipped by me until just now.
I must go to work for now, but you can start INDIRECTLY pondering CSBP by asking yourself this question:
Is free will fully explained in the Bible?
I mean the kind of free will we know of today, as opposed to robotic conditioned responses. Modern science has us all thinking that we are machines, and that every word or action we act out, and ever every thought, is a mechanically determined from the prior set of nerve synapse configurations in our brain. So, by my question I mean this: how do we see from the Bible that we are NOT automatons? In philosophy this topic is called “free will vs. determinism.â€
Think about this question for a while. I want to see chapters and verses.
***
Here’s another clue to understanding CSBP. It’s very indirect, but later they will connect.
How do you know from the Bible that God had long ago real, total, 100% foreknowledge of every event including YOU, your personality, and all of your free will decisions?
Or, how do you know from the Bible that CES is dead wrong in how they teach God is stuck in time like us, and that He only has His plans for the future and a lot of power to make them happen.
Again, modern science forbids any kind of foreknowledge at all, and only guessing or prediction of the future is possible. The Principle of Uncertainty in Physics, and a more obscure mathematical principle like it (see Penrose’s “The Emeror’s New Mindâ€), both forbid absolute foreknowledge.
So how do you prove from the Bible that, again, modern science must be missing something.
I want to see chapters and verses.
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Tom Strange
Mike said:
His new birth was the ressurection. He was the reason it was available to others to be 'born of God' on the day of Pentecost.YOU miss the whole point of what he did in your fanatical pursuit of PLAF over the world.
Accusing me, us?, of trinitarianism is just another one of your dodges... you still haven't answered what I perceive to be a simple, straightforward question with a simple yes or no answer: Do you believe that Jesus Christ will be teaching us from PLAF?
A simple yes or no will do. No need to pontificate here...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Mike
Tom,
YOU"RE missing my entire message in your frantic effort to nullify my posting here.
I'm not interested in your guessing.
Where did you read in the Bible that the resurrection was when Jesus got spiritual seed, pneuma hagion born within?
How long have you maintained this doctrine of yours.
Did you just make it up?
Did you read it in a book that has no error?
It this book your unbreakable Standard that you’re willing to place on my Table of Challenge?
I think you’re winging it again.
I’m only interested in doing what Dr told us to do in his final instructions. That teaching was lost to prevent us from coming back to PFAL and learning the next steps. You aren’t going to get me to follow you and you ad hoc religion.
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Mike
Tom,
As to your simple straightforward question, you are so tied up in knots contradicting me you can’t see my answer as I posted it thus far. What makes you think you’ll see it in another post?
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Tom Strange
just say "yes" or say "no" to answer the question Michael... no B.S... no pussyfooting around... just answer that one simple question... did you really say that? do you really believe that?
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Mike
I posted what I posted.
I can't help it if you are a blind reader.
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Tom Strange
why are you afraid to answer the question with a straightforward "yes" or "no"...?
you needn't be afraid, that doesn't become you...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Goey
Goey
"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"
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oldiesman
Yes, Mike I have. Is there a point you wish to make other than your insulting question that money is my God?
Mike I'm all ears. How may one tithe to Jesus Christ himself?
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Mike
Goey,
You didn't see my response to you several days ago, because you aren't reading all that I post. You sample it only, and then shoot from the hip of only having partial knowledge of my position.
I just recently read your posts on RG's original thread "exposing" me even before I posted a single time. Your position hasn';t changed. You made up your mind long before I came here. You've NEVER closely read what I post.
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Mike
oldiesman,
Hey! This is GREAT!
At least YOU are doing some reading of my posts to be able to ask a question like that!
I must get to work, however, so just ponder the two things I gave you, and find for me all the verses you base your beliefs in foreknowledge and free will on.
I have an already written post for Tom, so after that one I’m gone.
Feel free to e-mail me and I will be more free to answer many more things than I can here.
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Mike
Tom,
I’m making you the poster boy of “Blind Reading†because I have already answered that very explicitly. Careful readers of my posts will come across your badgering and say to themselves, “That Tom Strange is pretty stupid. He is so obsessed with contradicting Mike, he can’t even read what’s right in front of him!â€
If you want to tag along my threads and try to do nothing but cause confusion, then the price you will pay is my not regarding your requests for another iteration of my clearly posted position.
You are lazy, and I will refer you back to my already posted position.
Just start reading for a while instead of shooting off your ignorant mouth through your keyboard. I’m not sure which thread it’s on, but this thread has only had a few pages added on in recent weeks.
I’d start reading the “Masters†thread. If anything it will give you more substantive information with which to pull your pranky posts. Maybe if you actually READ it you’ll actually believe it!!!
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Tom Strange
Mike, I'll come right out and tell ya... (I'm sure others would as well without compunction)... I don't read most of your stuff... and I won't...
I'm just asking you this simple "yes" or "no" question: Do you believe that Jesus Christ will be teaching from the PFAL books?
"Yes" or "No". Which is it?
A couple of posts back you stated that I'd only put about "6 minutes of thought into it"... heck, if I put that much it would be too much...
and I don't want you to spend a lot of time on the answer to my question either... just "yes" or "no"... if you weren't so tied up in dodging and deflecting I'd have had an answer on the last page... and your fingers wouldn't be as tired.
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Pirate1974
Tom,
It's like beating beating your head against a brick wall, my man.
Mike NEVER answers a direct question.
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Tom Strange
now the "real" "Christian" Mike comes out... oooh... name calling, mud slinging... ouch... oooh...
Say what you want dude, it doesn't change anything other than you're afraid to give a straightforward answer to a straightforward question.
I can only surmize from your non-denial in your answer to Doze on page 33 that your answer is "yes"... I don't know why it's a big deal to you... I'm not going to argue with you about it... there's no use in that...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Tom Strange
I know PiMan... I was going for a first...
For the life of me I can't understand why someone who acts so sure and convinced of himself has such trouble giving straightforward answers to straighforward questions...
does he become a sweating heap of nerves when leaving the grocery store when they ask him "paper or plastic"?
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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Tom Strange
you know Mike, I don't want to argue with you about it... I just want to know if that's what you said/believe... that's all...
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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oldiesman
Mike, that sounds like a plan but some things have come up and I'm completely out of time.
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socks
Tom, time for a spur:
Speaking of paper and plastic, I wrote up a piece for a local tiny newspaper several years ago, part of a personal series of writs I've done on the unusual and strange experiences I've had while shopping. Keeping in mind that while I enjoy certain types of very select shopping, (the get in get out quickie skirmishes are fine-sometimes) I have never been able to adapt mentally or emotionally to the all-out onslaught of grocery shopping in a large supermarket. It's just too weird.
Anyway, several years ago I really had to go to the store to get something, and I hadn't been to a large supermarket for quite awhile, since they started doing the paper or plastic bag thing. It might have been a year or longer.
Anyway, I get there and get rung up and I'm alone, no wife, no cover, and it's really busy. So the bagger guy says "Paper or plastic" and I had no idea what he was talking about. I tried to ignore it by pretending I didn't hear, and then he asks me again, more insistent. People in the line are starting to murmur, I'm holding up The Line. Then it hit me. He had to be asking me if I was going to PAY for stuff with PAPER - (actual cash), or PLASTIC - (credit card). Which of course wasn't what he meant. But I pulled out my wallet and waved the guy off, "No thanks, plastic's too expensive to use, here..." and handed him a 20 dollar bill.
It got a little weird after that, but I did get everything paid for finally and left. I was good to go for awhile after that, until several months later when I went to buy some Sliced Cheese and Hot Dog buns. THAT got brutal.
I was standing all alone against the world outside. You were searching for a place to hide....
Now I've found you, there's no more emptiness inside. When we're hungry love will keep us alive.
The Eagles
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