Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 Years!

[vickles]

Have you ever heard of grandoise thinking?

If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.

virginia woolfe

[Mike]

vickles,

Have you ever thought of being THANKFUL for the abundance of blessings we have?

If you think through what I said right above, it may very well apply to you too, and many other people on this board. If you have your health you should be SOOOO thankful! If you never went hungry a single day in your life you should be SOOOO thankful!

In my apartment I have unlimited free hot water. How many kings in antiquity had that?

How many kings could travel at 65 miles per hour?

How many kings lived past 50 years old?

Of all the human beings that have ever lived, how many of them never went hungry a single day in their lives?

I have a larger list of things like this I'm thankful for, just in case these don't sink in. Instead of listing them all I'll skip to the biggest.

How many people in the past 20 centuries had The Word of God taught to them in the detail, coherency, and accuracy that we have had?

We have been given a GRAND ABUNDANCE by God Almighty!!!

Is THAT what you mean, vickles, by grandiose thinking? Hmmmmm?

Edited March 6, 2004 by Guest

[GarthP2000]

Vickles,

quote:

---

Have you ever heard of grandoise thinking?

---

Has Smikeol ever heard of "Just say no to drugs?" Or of reality for that matter? .....

Apparently not. :D-->

My own secret sign-off ====v,

Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations. Prophet Emeritus of THE, and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[Mike]

Garth,

It's no secret that I reject your reality totally.

Why mention the obvious? Nothing else to say?

Edited March 6, 2004 by Guest

[Doze]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:

Garth,

It's no secret that I reject your reality totally.

Why mention the obvious? Nothing else to say?

Most reject your delusional reality (PFAL God Breathed)

It's obvious and we (including Garth) have every right to say it. And who cares if you have nothing else to say on the subject? (condescendingly narcisssistic). Until, you take your agenda over the world and silence all dissent...we will keep saying it.

---

[shazdancer]

Mike, what you said about "I have a very comfortable life, probably better than most kings who ever lived enjoyed. My life is better than 99.999% of all humans who ever lived" is misleading, and you know it. Was it your intent to entrap people who would question that statement?

Hmm, compared materially to all the kings alive TODAY, I would tend to think your lifestyle is meager. So is mine, but I'm not claiming that it's better. (I know, you are trying to include "all the kings that ever lived.") Compared to starving-children-in-Africa, I'd say that my life and your life is better, materially. So what? My life would be just as good or meager if I never became a Christian, because I had the good fortune ( ;)--> ) to be born in an affluent country. So who did sin, these children, or their parents, that they were born into poverty?

So what I'm saying is that God didn't come down specially to give you running water because you believe in PFAL, Mike.

The question was, How has your six+ years of study of PFAL made your life better? All I hear from you is that you now feel complacent (I want to say smug) in the knowledge that you have found the truth. Big whoop, Mike, --> .

Particularly so when Wierwille's Big Lie was that operating the principles of PFAL would bring financial prosperity and good health. Particularly so when you keep offering the Big Lie of "all nine all the time," when you aren't even manifesting that yourself.

Shaz

[Mike]

shaz,

Someday I’ll find the tape where Dr laments that many of his students get the misimpression that the abundance of John 10:10 is “carloads of money.” That’s the exact phrase he used. He then went on to explain that the REAL abundance is spiritual. It includes eternal life, the knowing that we have eternal life, and all the other promises of God, like having NEED met.

When you think about it, seven of the nine manifestations are to benefit someone OTHER than the person operating them, so EVEN the spiritual power is not for self indulgence.

I do think the reason we have freedom and abundance in America is so that PFAL could be given to us. There’s no other reason why this American experiment in liberty should be so wildly successful.

Edited March 6, 2004 by Guest

[Mike]

Doze,

I have no desire to silence dissent.

What I'm pointing out is that when a message is delivered, and thoughtful dissent is exhausted, the dissenters then turn on the messenger with thoughtless dissent.

No, I don't want to silence dissent, only point out when dissenters have run out of arguments and try to shoot the messenger.

In the field of debate, rhetoric, and logic, it's called the argumentum ad hominem.

***

Research Geek did a very good thread on this at:

http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?q=Y&a=tpc...=7776095921&p=1

And then I continued the thread at:

http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...42&m=5036027881

And someone else sent me this link:

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

***

This third link has a nice outline of it all, and this is part of that outline.

Fallacies of Distraction:

Attacking the Person:

(1) the person's character is attacked

(2) the person's circumstances are noted

(3) the person does not practice what is preached

[GarthP2000]

My reply to your MISusage of the Fallacies of Distraction:

Attacking the Person:

(1) the person's character is attacked (Of course it is. When the other person's character, which is supposedly part of his message, is sadly lacking)

(2) the person's circumstances are noted (again, when the circumstances supposedly relate to the person's message, and does not jive with the message portrayed)

(3) the person does not practice what is preached (Bingo! And contrarty to your labeling it so, is NOT a fallacy)

The message may or may not stand apart from the messenger's behavior, but at the very *least*, the messenger is expected to comport himself in a way that is compatible to the message, else he ruin it. Such illustrations/principles are abundant in the Bible, and no, such illustrations/principles that are seen there have not been seriously corrupted over time from the originals. Sorry Smikeol.

Ie., in short, the principle of 'practice what you preach' is still sound. And far sounder than that Piffle swill that you spew.

Try again. .... On second thought, let's not.

-->

My own secret sign-off ====v,

Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations. Prophet Emeritus of THE, and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

Garth P.

www.gapstudioweb.com

[Raf]

quote:

---

What I'm pointing out is that when a message is delivered, and thoughtful dissent is exhausted, the dissenters then turn on the messenger with thoughtless dissent.

---

Thoughtful dissent was exhausted? When did that happen? Oh, I remember, it was when we all posted thoughtful dissent and you, rather than address those thoughts, attacked the messengers as unfit researchers, et al. Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

[metastic&ocular]

L.O.T.F.

so now you compare yourself to a king mikeezebub?how pretentious, narcissistic,prideful.

where's your queen?

where's your kingdom?

from the description you gave us it seems you live like a peasant. pretty sad.some abundant life.

if you're titheing i'd send it somewhere else.

i AM living the abundant life mike.

and it started right after i burned VPWs blasphemus trash in my fireplace(in my house)

i guess that makes my doctrine correct.

results dont lie.

i got the peanuts, you got the shells.

and my power line from heaven beats your sewer pipe from hell.

a thing of beauty

http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm

[This message was edited by metastic&ocular on March 06, 2004 at 19:41.]

Edited March 7, 2004 by Guest

[Doze]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike:

No, I don't want to silence dissent, only point out when dissenters have run out of arguments and try to shoot the messenger.

In the field of debate, rhetoric, and logic, it's called the argumentum ad hominem.

---

It all sounds very intellectual Mike...only problem you violate almost all rules of debate, rhetoric and logic yourself. If we (dissenters) do not accept your basic proposition regarding PFAL being the inerrant/inherent "Word of God" (and there has been much put forward as to it's inaccuracy) then we therfore are considered unworthy or unlearned in it's mastery (to your level) to even debate your self promoted enlightened understanding of it.

There are many here who are your equal in debating these issues (and I am not one of them)...it is you who use distraction, by dismissing their arguments out of hand because of their insistance on scrutinizing the writings of Victor Paul Wierwille. Your proposition that it is "God Breathed" should be placed under greater scrutiny simply because of how preposterous and presumptous it is. So far, you have offered no proof to the contrary.

[excathedra]

[vickles]

I don't think I really need to answer that mike since others gave the answer so perfectly.

Your life of more abundant living is not my kind. Its a pretty lonely life if you ask me. I personally enjoy my personal relationship with God. I have gotten to get to know Him on a more trusting and open relationship.

I've learned not to demand from God and use all these 'theories' on believing equals receiving sort of thing. But to have a friendship and love going on with Him. It sure makes the relationship with Him and I on a more higher plane.

It sort of reminds me of a spoiled child in a grocery store who is demanding of candy. What does the parent do when that child is so demanding? Well, if she wants to spoil him/her and make the child rotten she will each time give what he wants. I'm sure that child probably is believing that the parent is going to give that child what he wants. Is his needs and wants parallel? I'm sure he believes it is from a childish perspective.

Another thing is if a child is afraid of the boogie man does that mean that if he believes that there is one actually there that something will happen to him?

Obviously, your not a parent and believe what vpw says on who killed that little child. It is very natural for us as parents to worry and have fear for our children. If we didn't have that natural ability built in us we would allow our children to do anything believing that nothing could happen to them. As a parent this is very very obvious that it is not true what vpw said.

You want to live in your world of reality of grandois thinking believing you are the only one who has answers and live that life of your more abundant living and trying to attain all 9 all the time then that is your choice. Just be careful when you try to walk through the door that your head doesn't get stuck.

If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.

virginia woolfe

[metastic&ocular]

vickles. no. he is not a parent.

a fact i thank God for.

a thing of beauty

http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm

Edited March 6, 2004 by Guest

[Mike]

Hey y’all...

Let me know when your tired of shooting the messenger and I’ll continue with the message.

It amazes me that you folks you claim to totally reject my message (the portion I’ve posted and you read), yet for some strange reason you think it important to jeer at me and call me all kinds of names.

I think I must be striking a nerve somewhere in someone, or in some spirits.

Have you all ever closely examined your motives for posting on this thread? It might reveal something to you if you do a little introspection. Then again, I may be asking too much.

[vickles]

Mike, I don't see anyone calling you names here. We are just disagreeing with what your saying and letting you know that your ideas are pretty big ones. It is your choice of course to believe what you want. I don't think anyone has been rude to you lately.

LOL about the spirits. I guess we are possessed for disagreeing with you...huh?

My motive for posting is trying to get you to understand where a lot of us are coming from. It seems to be a lost cause though. But then so is yours.

If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.

virginia woolfe

[excathedra]

quote:

---

Let me know when your tired of shooting the messenger and I’ll continue with the message.

---

pass

[mj412]

if you were a messenger Mike let me say you would be surely dead by now . sorry but I do not think so .

[Mike]

I can't overstate the importance of the final instructions Dr. Wierwille gave us, and the adversary's successful campaign that, still to this day, hides these final instructions from our awareness.

These are still un-executed instructions that our father in the Word gave us in his last days with us. We have seen the destruction that has hit most all of our brothers and sisters, especially the top leadership of the Body. I firmly believe the disobedience of these final instructions, being in a long line of flagrant disobedience by most of us (including me) is the ultimate reason for all the ministry problems as well as the personal problems we may have.

I do believe we and the people we minister to will never reach "all nine all the time" without these final instructions firmly implemented. Have you yet learned how to receive revelation to the degree Dr reported in the Advanced Class where he went to the races and got all ten horses correct from God? There's a reason why none of us have gotten proficient in the "other" six manifestations.

There's a reason we all failed so badly at keeping the unity of the spirit we once enjoyed, and the mishandling of this last teaching of Dr's is THE smoking gun as to what went wrong. We all defiantly distanced ourselves from taking seriously the advice that Dr gave us, and we forgot that God Almighty commissioned Dr to give us the Word like it had not been known since the first century. We have drifted into giving greater respect to the scholars and religious leaders who produce VERSIONS of the scriptures, like the KJV and the NIV, and we have failed to master the writings that God gave to Dr by revelation.

Please take this teaching VERY seriously. Dr said he wanted to be SURE this would contain the MOST important things he could have told us. The adversary agreed that this teaching was paramount, and that is why he influenced us all to dismiss this MOST vital teaching.

I have challenged a number of grads, some leaders, to take out a blank sheet of paper and reconstruct from memory a rough outline or even a few lines of what Dr's dying last words to us were. NOT EVEN ONE COULD DO IT! Let's change that.

*******

Has anyone compared the tape transcript of this Last/Lost Teaching to the magazine article?

I just searched and searched GreaseSpot for the Way Magazine version of this teaching and it seems I’ve never posted it. I did post the tape transcript in the first page of this post. I will post the magazine article below so those who don’t have the magazine can still do the comparison.

There are 56 changes I have noticed so far that the transcribers and editors of the magazine made to the tape of Dr's in this last teaching. Some of these changes fall into the abomination category, in my opinion. Some were deliberate and some were accidental. These words were Dr’s dying last words to us, and they should have received the utmost attention.

I will use bold fonts to mark the spots where one deliberate change and one accidental change were made that are indicative of the attitude most of us had toward Dr and his words. The deliberate one is toward the end and the accidental one is near the middle.

The accidental one is a set of missing sentences. It seems that either in the transcription or the editing process 5 sentences were lost. I remember in 1998, when first seeing the article, this section with the missing sentences read very strange. Two years later, when I finally found the tape, the same section read perfectly clear with the missing sentences in place. I think this is an accidental error, but it’s very telling that NO ONE caught it! Things got very sloppy by the mid 80’s. I fully admit to the same in my life.

The deliberate one occurs near the end where Dr tells us for the SECOND time in this teaching that we need to master certain things. This second injunction is watered down in the magazine from the original three usages of the word "master" to only two, thus reducing the strength of this command.

So here is the article:

*************************************************************

The Way Magazine/ September-October 1986

"The Joy Of Serving" Victor Paul Wierwille May 12, 1985

This is the meeting here at this time of Country coordinators,

and of course what I'm going to say should be applicable to every

born-again believer, but especially to our coordinators. I wanted

just to share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving.

Number one, you can't serve unless you've got something to serve.

So if you are going to serve a dinner, you have to have a dinner to

serve, right?

If you master the foundational class on Power for Abundant Living,

and the Intermediate Class plus the collateral readings that accompany

them, you have really something wonderful to serve people with. Twig

and Twig Area coordinators, the Country coordinators, leadership of

the Corps, of the WOWs, have to all have this joy of serving. If you

haven't got the joy of serving, you've missed something in the Word

of God you ought to put on. So number one, you've got to have some-

thing to serve.

The second thing you need is love.

Ephesians 5:1 and 2:

Be ye therefore followers [imitators] of God, as dear [or beloved]

children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us ["you"

is in the text], and hath given [gave up] himself for us [you]

an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

I bet most of you thought I was going to read you I Corinthians 13.

It wouldn't hurt you to read it sometime again and believe what it says!

Then I want you to look at the Epistle of I John.

1 John 3:16 and 17:

Hereby perceive we the love of God [agape],

because he laid down his life for us:

and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need,

and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him,

how dwelleth the love of God in him?

I'd also like to show you I Peter.

I Peter 1:22

Seeing ye have purified your souls...

That's renewed mind because your soul is not purified when you

are born again. It becomes purified as you renew your mind according

to the Word.

Verse 22:

...purified your souls in obeying the truth [there it is] through

the Spirit unto unfeigned ["unfeigned" is genuine] love of the

brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.

So first in the joy of serving you've got to have something that's

served joyfully; secondly love, and then thirdly, the act of service

itself. That's the joy and the order of it.

I'll give you the four basic scriptural things relative to service

as I know it from the greatness of the Word. They are Matthew 20:27

and following, Luke 22:24 and following, John 13:1 and following;

and the one I want to read with you is from the Gospel of Mark.

Mark 10:35:

And James and John [two of the apostles], the Sons of Zebedee, come

unto him [Jesus], saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do

for us whatsoever we shall desire.

Sounds sort of selfish, doesn't it?

Verses 36-42:

And he [Jesus] said unto them,

What would ye that I should do for you?

They said unto him,

Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand,

and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

But Jesus said unto them,

Ye know not what ye ask:

can ye drink of the cup that I drink of ?

and be baptized with the baptism

that I am baptized with [referring to his death]?

And they said unto him, We can.

And Jesus said unto them,

Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of;

and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye

be baptized:

But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not

mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom

it is prepared.

And when the ten heard it,

they began to be much displeased with James and John.

But [And] Jesus called them to him [all twelve],

and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are

accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship

over them; and their great ones exercise authority

upon them.

You see the world is just opposite of the teaching of the

Scriptures. Their leaders exercise lordship over them; and then

the great one, when he gets higher up on the ladder, he exercises

authority over the top of them too. That's why so many times we

have heard that money is power, because money buys people, and

then people become the slaves of those who have the money. That's

the world.

Verse 43:

But so shall it not be among you:

but whosoever will be great among you,

shall be your minister. [That means minister to you.]

*[You earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God

and loving them, and then learning to keep your mouth shut.

You just never tell anything; you just help people.]*

Tape:

See, every twig coordinator ought to know what's happening in his

twig, among his people. He ought to know his people very well so he

can minister to them. You can't help somebody if you don't know

there's a need there. So a twig coordinator really has to get close

to his people -- to know. And people are usually hesitant to really

tell ya what they need until -- you have earned their respect. And

you earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God and loving

them-- and then learning to keep your mouth shut. You just -- you

just never tell anything; you just help people.

Verses 43 and 44:

But so shall it not be among you:

but whosoever will be great among you,

shall be your minister:

And whosoever of you will be the chiefest

[the greatest, the top one],

shall be servant [doulos] of all.

He will not just be a minister but a servant of all, a doulos,

marked out for serving God's people.

Verse 45:

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,

but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

After all of my years, and our years of working with people,

I think the joy of service is exactly, in a synopsis form, what

I've given you.

*[Number one, you have to take Power for Abundant Living and

master it. You have got to master the Foundational and Inter-

mediate Classes and the collaterals that go with them.]* Then

you've got something to serve people. And then you have

to do it with the love of God in the renewed mind, agape. Then

your service is just not a ministering service, it is a doulos service,

where you are a marked-out slave for serving.

Tape:

Number one, you have to take PFAL and master it –

Intermediate, you gotta master it; the collateral's that

go with it, you gotta master.

I think that what has made The Way Ministry so wonderful all

over the world, generally speaking, is that we have a lot of the

love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation among our people

and that we are serving our people. So every Twig coordinator,

Twig Area or Country coordinator, anybody that blesses people,

even if you are not a Twig coordinator, you ought to master this

so that you can help somebody in the shop or factory; or wherever

you are, so that you have got answers for them. Outside of this

ministry I've seen very few answers. If we knew where there were

more, we'd go get them! That's right.

This old church hymn was my graduation hymn:

O Master, let me walk with Thee

In lowly paths of service free;

Teach me the wayward feet to stay,

And guide them in the homeward way.

Teach me Thy patience! still with Thee

In closer, dearer company,

In work that keeps faith sweet and strong,

In trust that triumphs over wrong;

In hope that sends a shining ray,

Far down the future's broad'ning way,

In peace that only Thou canst give,

With Thee, O Master, let me live.

[This message was edited by Mike on March 06, 2004 at 23:20.]

[This message was edited by Mike on March 06, 2004 at 23:21.]

Edited March 7, 2004 by Guest

[vickles]

mike, sounds like a lot of controlling of others to me...thank God I don't have to believe that crap anymore. Thanks for sharing it...it makes me very thankful.

If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.

virginia woolfe

[Mike]

vickles,

How many times does Dr mention serving and love in that article? Count them.

He does mention controlling people in there and he mentions that it's bad!

Did you even read it? Seriously?

***

Earlier you wrote: “I'm sure that child probably is believing that the parent is going to give that child what he wants.”

It’s believing a promise of God that we were taught is necessary, not just any old desire.

***

You wrote: “Is his needs and wants parallel? I'm sure he believes it is from a childish perspective.”

Who cares? A childish perspective doesn’t count here. The needs and wants have to be truly parallel, not just thought to be parallel. The child must grow up and rightly divide these things.

***

You wrote: “Obviously, your not a parent and believe what vpw says on who killed that little child.”

Have you taken the time to accurately see “what vpw says on who killed that little child” or do you just wing it on TVT?

I have posted on the Masters thread and others many details that you are probably unaware of in “what vpw” says on that subject.

One such item is the difference between full blown fears and mild concerns. Everyone wrestles with worries and anxieties, even Jesus Christ. The question is do we allow them to mature into real negative believing fear?

You need to upgrade your understanding of this. Hang around the Masters thread where this is a hot topic lately and you’ll learn more, Learning is an exciting adventure.

***

You wrote: “Mike, I don't see anyone calling you names here. ... I don't think anyone has been rude to you lately.”

You don’t see the venom in some posters? If you don’t you are not paying attention. If I were to address you the way they talk to me you’d be in tears.

***

You wrote: “LOL about the spirits. I guess we are possessed for disagreeing with you...huh?”

NO! I have posted many times here that one terrible item in the TVT is what you just expressed. All someone has to do is mention spirits and it automatically possession that pops into your mind.

Tell me this: why didn’t oppression or satan pop up as possible meanings of my statement when I mentioned spirits?

Do you know the difference between possession, oppression, and satan?

Do an “Advanced Search” on these words with my name in the “Author” filter box and you’ll learn the differences.

***

You wrote: “My motive for posting is trying to get you to understand where a lot of us are coming from. It seems to be a lost cause though.”

No, it’s not a lost cause at all because I already know where you are coming from. Not only did I read Waydale and GreaseSpot for years before posting, at one time (or several) I had the exact same feelings and opinions. Then I changed.

Edited March 7, 2004 by Guest

[Mike]

metastic&ocular,

You wrote: “...so now you compare yourself to a king...”

No I compared the blessings and abundance in my life to that of a king's.

Please read more carefully.

Edited March 7, 2004 by Guest

[Mike]

shaz,

On this subject of a king’s abundance, you mentioned that current kings enjoy more than us. I disagree. I work for many very rich people. I see in many a set of pains we have never dreamt of. A few have admitted them to me. They live in daily fear of lawsuits and kidnappings. They fear for their children’s welfare in very exotic ways. These are fact based fears. I heard a radio report ten years ago that in one South American country, the kidnapping of children for ransom money is so rampant that kidnappers often accept checks! The police are so swamped with cases there is plenty of time to cash the check.

There is a verse somewhere that records a prayer for avoiding poverty AND for avoiding too many riches. God’s idea of abundance is somewhere in the balance between the two. Someday I’ll find it.

Until then, these stand out in my mind:

James 5:1

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl

for your miseries that shall come upon you

I Timothy 6:5-19

Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,

and destitute of the truth,

supposing that gain is godliness:

from such withdraw thyself.

But godliness with contentment is great gain.

For we brought nothing into this world,

and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

But they that will be rich fall into temptation

and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts,

which drown men in destruction and perdition.

For the love of money is the root of all evil:

which while some coveted after,

they have erred from the faith,

and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

But thou, O man of God, flee these things;

and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Fight the good fight of faith,

lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called,

and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

I give thee charge in the sight of God,

who quickeneth all things,

and before Christ Jesus,

who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

That thou keep this commandment without spot,

unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Which in his times he shall shew,

who is the blessed and only Potentate,

the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Who only hath immortality,

dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;

whom no man hath seen, nor can see:

to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Charge them that are rich in this world,

that they be not highminded,

nor trust in uncertain riches,

but in the living God,

who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

That they do good,

that they be rich in good works,

ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

Laying up in store for themselves

a good foundation against the time to come,

that they may lay hold on eternal life.

[Mike]

GarthP2000,

You wrote: “...the person's character is attacked (Of course it is. When the other person's character, which is supposedly part of his message, is sadly lacking...”

Just WHO made this supposition for you? My character is NOT part of my message.

You wrote: “...but at the very *least*, the messenger is expected to comport himself in a way that is compatible to the message, else he ruin it.”

My character flaws can only ruin it for those who want it ruined in the first place.

My character flaws can slow down receiving the blessings for those who DO want it, and therefore I work on myself by working God's Word.

Besides you have hardly had an opportunity to measure my character.

Edited March 7, 2004 by Guest