You wrote: “I honestly have to question Mikes motives for bringing this diatribe here. Wierwille was a fraud whose massive ego was "enabled" by people just like Mike who hung on every word of this imposter. Mike...don't you feel foolish?â€
It's hard for me to comprehend how you can make that many errors in such a short paragraph, but you did!
I’ll only handle a few.
***
I brought it up because there are still people who never heard of it, and there are people here who have asked why I say it was lost, or who ask HOW it got lost. AND, I was honest about it.
***
“Wierwille was a fraud...â€
Thousands of people today owe him their lives and abundance for what he taught to them, what he brought to them. I am one of them. I doubt if you could bless one hundredth the number of people Dr blessed, and you could NEVER do it as big.
Anything you were genuinely defrauded of was done by the devil and because of your stupidity. Get smart!
***
“...whose massive ego was...â€
It is the case that Dr was VERY meek to hear God’s revelations, even when it went against all the structure of life Dr was born into. When was the last time you faced danger in order to bless people who largely don’t care much about you? I’ll bet your ego backed into a corner would be the very monster you think Dr’s is.
***
“Wierwille ... was "enabled" by people just like Mike who hung on every word...â€
Just the opposite. I wouldn’t be surprised if back then YOU were an easy-to-jump-on-the-bandwagon type of person cheering Dr on at live teachings, just like you’re now on this bandwagon jeering him on. The crowd that welcomed Jesus in his triumphant entry into Jerusalem was the same mob yelling “Crucify him!†a week later.
Unlike that, back then I was reserved and wished I COULD indulge in the party of enthusiasm in those early years. I envied those who could hear Dr speak and just believe it on the spot. It took me years and years to believe him on many points. I had to do all this checking it out from every angle before I could move on it. I had to do this with almost every single thing in the class. Now I’m glad I did my homework early, because I’m enjoying the rewards early.
I saw the kinds of people you mentioned back then, but I wasn’t one of them. Take a discrete poll here and I’ll bet most posters were wild eyed and hanging on his every word. A discrete poll would be hard now, because I have stated how I think it will turn out, and people here want to do anything but prove me right.
The people who gave Dr too much trust and adulation are the ones most bitterly disappointed now. It’s like they never saw the verses that warn about trusting in man, but now they know why they were written.
***
Now, Groucho, don’t YOU feel foolish? Not yet? It’s coming.
Wait a minute, which Wierwille are we talking about? The "old nature" Wierwille, or the "new nature" Wierwille? Or maybe it was the clone who called himself the Scarlet MOG
Groucho, meet Mike (ie., Smikeol), our resident psychotic. This fine in-duh-vidual ... get this ... actually believes (Yes Virginia, he actually believes this) that the PFAL that VPW came up with is God breathed. Ie., The Word of God. Sent to replace the 2,000 year old scripture whose 'warranty' apparently ran out, was corrupted over the many years, etc., etc., ad nauseum, ... whatever. (Think Book of Mormon meets Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon')
If you intend to try to persuade him out of his opinion, one word of advice. Don't. 'Cause you aren't going to succeed at it. Many here have endeavored to show him the flaws of his approach in countless posts. To no avail. At all. You'll get more mileage arguing with a Marilyn Manson/Goth fanatic as to why he needs to listen to Lawrence Welk music.
Here's one example of what I mean: "Thousands of people today owe him their lives and abundance for what he taught to them, what he brought to them." And here is an example of how much Smikeol wants to 'bless' people with what he has become with PFAL: "Anything you were genuinely defrauded of was done by the devil and because of your stupidity. Get smart!" Ahhhhh, now doesn't that just bless your socks off, keeds? --> NEVER attributes any flaws or blame to Wierwille now, doesn't he?
Oh by the way, why do I call him Smikeol? Remember Smigeol the Gollum in The Lord of the Rings flicks who was *SO* obsessed with his ring? His preciousssss??
PFAL is Mike's, ... Smikeol's precioussssss!
I could email you a pic of the Gollum with a PFAL book that I created with Photoshop that many here got a kick out of, ... except Smikeol, of course. PT me your email, and I'll send it to you to enjoy. :D-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Oh, I shouldn't have read this thread-- I think I need to avoid "MIke THreads" Not anything personal but my head is aching--Just Like It did when I had to listen in TWI.
PAragraph after paragraph not really saying anything--YOu could distill the essence of it all into 20 lines.
Obvously TWI means A Lot to you , MIke and that is great--But could you condense things just a little --PLease___
Did you really read the whole thread, or just this one page?
Tell me, were you aware of Dr's last teaching before now?
I'd love to condense these things. They say the truth is simple, but I'm dealing with confusion, lies, entanglements, and counterfeits. Untangling the truth from such a mess can take time, and condensation is pretty much impossible.
I thank you for your reading effort. I'm impressed.
Also, remember that Jesus taught his apostles much more than he taught the people. We were in leadership programs in TWI so that we could help the people. Like Jesus' apostles, we need more material to go out and help others.
The Sermon on the Mount is like a summary of the heart of the OT the people needed reminding of, to help them separate it from the heartless religion they were in. After TWI we needed similar refreshment, but if we want to go back into the Valley of Human Need we will need more material, just like the apostles needed more from Jesus.
With regarding to the use of shorter more concise posts. I have been telling that to Mike for a number of months since he started posting here. It did not sink in when I first stared telling him this. I doubt if it is sinking in now too. Mike seems to want to stay as the poster child for PFAL insanity when taken to irrational religious extremes. Just a short time reading his posts has often discouraged even the most loyal Wierwille apologist. It just goes to show you. Everyone can contribute something. Even Mike.
I am showing you. It's in my other thread "Masters of the Word -- Mastering PFAL" and you're welcome to join.
I have a very comfortable life, probably better than most kings who ever lived enjoyed. My life is better than 99.999% of all humans who ever lived.
Plus, like I said above, I have a lot of data, and I'm getting more all the time. Learning is an exciting advernture. Have YOU had any adventures lately? I fully expect to grow into all nine all the time, now that I know what went wrong.
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T-Bone
Great posts Rocky & Waysider ! Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage: 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and
Bolshevik
He tells them to be joyful. Doesn't explain how. The Word says be joyful *POOF* you are now joyful. Like when claiming verses. Craftily disconnects the motive from the action. . . .
WordWolf
Yes. BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before: "Serving people is important for Christians. Therefore, master
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dmiller
Garth -- am praying those dates are ACCURATE!
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D--> Dormant till then. Amen.
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Mike
Groucho,
You wrote: “I honestly have to question Mikes motives for bringing this diatribe here. Wierwille was a fraud whose massive ego was "enabled" by people just like Mike who hung on every word of this imposter. Mike...don't you feel foolish?â€
It's hard for me to comprehend how you can make that many errors in such a short paragraph, but you did!
I’ll only handle a few.
***
I brought it up because there are still people who never heard of it, and there are people here who have asked why I say it was lost, or who ask HOW it got lost. AND, I was honest about it.
***
“Wierwille was a fraud...â€
Thousands of people today owe him their lives and abundance for what he taught to them, what he brought to them. I am one of them. I doubt if you could bless one hundredth the number of people Dr blessed, and you could NEVER do it as big.
Anything you were genuinely defrauded of was done by the devil and because of your stupidity. Get smart!
***
“...whose massive ego was...â€
It is the case that Dr was VERY meek to hear God’s revelations, even when it went against all the structure of life Dr was born into. When was the last time you faced danger in order to bless people who largely don’t care much about you? I’ll bet your ego backed into a corner would be the very monster you think Dr’s is.
***
“Wierwille ... was "enabled" by people just like Mike who hung on every word...â€
Just the opposite. I wouldn’t be surprised if back then YOU were an easy-to-jump-on-the-bandwagon type of person cheering Dr on at live teachings, just like you’re now on this bandwagon jeering him on. The crowd that welcomed Jesus in his triumphant entry into Jerusalem was the same mob yelling “Crucify him!†a week later.
Unlike that, back then I was reserved and wished I COULD indulge in the party of enthusiasm in those early years. I envied those who could hear Dr speak and just believe it on the spot. It took me years and years to believe him on many points. I had to do all this checking it out from every angle before I could move on it. I had to do this with almost every single thing in the class. Now I’m glad I did my homework early, because I’m enjoying the rewards early.
I saw the kinds of people you mentioned back then, but I wasn’t one of them. Take a discrete poll here and I’ll bet most posters were wild eyed and hanging on his every word. A discrete poll would be hard now, because I have stated how I think it will turn out, and people here want to do anything but prove me right.
The people who gave Dr too much trust and adulation are the ones most bitterly disappointed now. It’s like they never saw the verses that warn about trusting in man, but now they know why they were written.
***
Now, Groucho, don’t YOU feel foolish? Not yet? It’s coming.
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Oakspear
Wait a minute, which Wierwille are we talking about? The "old nature" Wierwille, or the "new nature" Wierwille? Or maybe it was the clone who called himself the Scarlet MOG
apologies to Stan Lee
Oakspear
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Mike
Read the teaching and see!
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Oakspear
d*mn those time zones!
It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight
Oakspear
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dmiller
If vpw had a "lost teaching", put it where it belongs (in the apocrypha, in the catholic bible), along with all the other "lost teachings".
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GarthP2000
Groucho, meet Mike (ie., Smikeol), our resident psychotic. This fine in-duh-vidual ... get this ... actually believes (Yes Virginia, he actually believes this) that the PFAL that VPW came up with is God breathed. Ie., The Word of God. Sent to replace the 2,000 year old scripture whose 'warranty' apparently ran out, was corrupted over the many years, etc., etc., ad nauseum, ... whatever. (Think Book of Mormon meets Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon')
If you intend to try to persuade him out of his opinion, one word of advice. Don't. 'Cause you aren't going to succeed at it. Many here have endeavored to show him the flaws of his approach in countless posts. To no avail. At all. You'll get more mileage arguing with a Marilyn Manson/Goth fanatic as to why he needs to listen to Lawrence Welk music.
Here's one example of what I mean: "Thousands of people today owe him their lives and abundance for what he taught to them, what he brought to them."
And here is an example of how much Smikeol wants to 'bless' people with what he has become with PFAL: "Anything you were genuinely defrauded of was done by the devil and because of your stupidity. Get smart!" Ahhhhh, now doesn't that just bless your socks off, keeds? 
--> NEVER attributes any flaws or blame to Wierwille now, doesn't he?
Oh by the way, why do I call him Smikeol? Remember Smigeol the Gollum in The Lord of the Rings flicks who was *SO* obsessed with his ring? His preciousssss??
PFAL is Mike's, ... Smikeol's precioussssss!
I could email you a pic of the Gollum with a PFAL book that I created with Photoshop that many here got a kick out of, ... except Smikeol, of course. PT me your email, and I'll send it to you to enjoy.
:D-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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WordWolf
Garth,
You left out some of Mike's best stuff.
We all know that vpw plagiarized huge sections of books from EW Kenyon,
BG Leonard, JE Stiles, EW Bullinger, and included them in "his" books
while failing to properly credit them like he was taught in college/
grad school. Mike's current position (after "they all were thankful to be
plagiarized" and "it's not plagiarism if he makes a few aside comments about
the material") is that God instructed him to plagiarize, and specifically
what to plagiarize and what to change. That God failed to tell him things
like "the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are synonymous" in the
process doesn't seem to faze Mike.
Jesus himself has endorsed pfal-and Mike's little project with it. In fact,
at the "Gathering Together" and points thereafter, Jesus himself will be
teaching, and using the orange book as a textbook.
vpw was JUST a preacher, he was "born with an overabundance of brains and
brawn", some sort of physical and mental paragon the likes of which the
world rarely sees. "Where he walked, the earth shook."
Sins and harming the flock are NOT sufficient reasons to doubt the credibility
of a man speaking for God-character does NOT count.
Regardless of all the errors in pfal, they can't really exist, because pfal
is perfect. So, all the obvious and less-obvious errors in the books somehow
don't exist.
Mike has viewed pfal as divine for over 30 years, but he keeps saying he
honestly evaluated it a few years ago.
There's plenty of others-that's off the top of my head.
============================================================
In case you missed it on page one of this thread,
here's my summary of this "last teaching."
"Normal Christians don't have any answers.
Only we do.
Our answers are in the PFAL class.
So, really work that class more and more.
It's the greatest learning tool out there
available for a Christian to use."
So, it was a commercial for PFAL.
He also mentioned that Christian leaders
are supposed to serve, not be served.
Considering who it was who said it, I
think this was a funny statement, and a
textbook example of "do as I say, not as I do."
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templelady
Oh, I shouldn't have read this thread-- I think I need to avoid "MIke THreads" Not anything personal but my head is aching--Just Like It did when I had to listen in TWI.
PAragraph after paragraph not really saying anything--YOu could distill the essence of it all into 20 lines.
Obvously TWI means A Lot to you , MIke and that is great--But could you condense things just a little --PLease___
MO
(who Used to be Maure)
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Mike
templelady,
Did you really read the whole thread, or just this one page?
Tell me, were you aware of Dr's last teaching before now?
I'd love to condense these things. They say the truth is simple, but I'm dealing with confusion, lies, entanglements, and counterfeits. Untangling the truth from such a mess can take time, and condensation is pretty much impossible.
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Pirate1974
Shouldn't there be a special "Mike" section in the archives for this stuff?
That might just be the best description of this stuff that I've seen.
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Tom Strange
6er! I got the bowl of soup... but never the hat! so... I turned the job down...
:D-->
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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templelady
Yes MIke I read the whole thing --I knew about Dr's last teaching--I was "in" when the whole SHeebang collapsed --I it took me and my family with it.
Less is more
Christ managed to get the essence of the entire Gospel across in the Sermon on the Mount
It isn't the amount of Verbage that counts
Words stand or fall on their own
MO
(who Used to be Maure)
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alfakat
Pirate--the MikeHives, you were thinking, perhaps.......
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Mike
templelady,
I thank you for your reading effort. I'm impressed.
Also, remember that Jesus taught his apostles much more than he taught the people. We were in leadership programs in TWI so that we could help the people. Like Jesus' apostles, we need more material to go out and help others.
The Sermon on the Mount is like a summary of the heart of the OT the people needed reminding of, to help them separate it from the heartless religion they were in. After TWI we needed similar refreshment, but if we want to go back into the Valley of Human Need we will need more material, just like the apostles needed more from Jesus.
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Tom Strange
oh... and Garth... thank you sir.
(did you have eggs for breakfast?)
She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.
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George Aar
I don't have time to relate it all right now, but the thing I've been "working" lately is P.T. Barnum's last teaching "lost for 117 years".
It'll blow yer mind I tell ya.
If only we had remained faithful...
geo.
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rascal
Aww DAMN George...is THAT where we went wrong???
I can see it all so clearly ..............I now hang my head in shame for letting down all of mankind...sigh
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Mike
Thank you for contributing to this forum.
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def59
A good writer should be able to condense his works to get the best bang for his buck. Time is precious and we don't have alot.
If you could be more precise and limit yourself to say 60-100 words per point then maybe we could have a discussion.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Def, Mo and others:
With regarding to the use of shorter more concise posts. I have been telling that to Mike for a number of months since he started posting here. It did not sink in when I first stared telling him this. I doubt if it is sinking in now too. Mike seems to want to stay as the poster child for PFAL insanity when taken to irrational religious extremes. Just a short time reading his posts has often discouraged even the most loyal Wierwille apologist. It just goes to show you. Everyone can contribute something. Even Mike.
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Mike
A long time ago I said I have a lot of data to report.
I still do.
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metastic&ocular
just the typical lord of the flies pathetic cry for attention.
the price he pays for being a PFAL pariah.
look everyone!!! look at the abundant life that PFAL has brought to the great mike!
dosent he just inspire you all to follow him?
please mike! regale us all with stories of the abundants that PFAL has affored you!!
your prosperity!
your shining leadership!
the miracles you've perfomed!
the hearts and bodies you have healed!
all nine all the time!
please,please! PLEASE!!! MIKE!
SHOW US HOW YOU DO IT!!!!
a thing of beauty
http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm
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Mike
I am showing you. It's in my other thread "Masters of the Word -- Mastering PFAL" and you're welcome to join.
I have a very comfortable life, probably better than most kings who ever lived enjoyed. My life is better than 99.999% of all humans who ever lived.
Plus, like I said above, I have a lot of data, and I'm getting more all the time. Learning is an exciting advernture. Have YOU had any adventures lately? I fully expect to grow into all nine all the time, now that I know what went wrong.
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