My heart goes out to you. I went through a similar situation at my last job. It got so bad I had to resign or risk a nervous breakdown. My physical health had already taken some very serious hits. I went to a therapist because it had me so messed up. I thought there was something horribly wrong with me.
The conclusion my therapist came to was that I was working with some very sick people. I tended to be very honest and open and tried to be kind to everyone - even the "unpopular" people. That was seen as weakness even though it had nothing to do with my job performance.
I thought I had left the whole "devil spirit" phenomenom behind me with TWI. After that last job, I have to think there was some kind of spiritual influence that made these people act like this. It just didn't make sense. I was doing a good job, not hurting anyone. I just couldn't understand their motivation for acting that way towards me and being so adamant about it.
You are in my prayers and thoughts. I will pray that this job works out or that if it doesn't, you will get a better job immediately.
Thanks scout, every word of your post rings so true for me.
It DOES feel like there is something *horribly wrong with me*...I agonize over WHAT I could have possibly done to have placed myself in the cross hairs so to speak?
How could I have tried so hard, and failed so abysmally.
I too have been honest and kind, unwilling to participate in the back biting and tatteling. It was indeed seen as weakness. Apparently because I am unwilling to squeal er I mean offer proper *feed back* to my boss concerning my fellow employees, and their conduct (in other words, I would only say nice things) , it was therefor concluded that I would not give it, because I must be unable to accept feed back myself....huh?
My job preformance has been excellent, my attendance has been perfect, I have never been late.....the only thing that can prevent me from being permanantly hired on after 90 days (which was up this week) is this safety stuff.
It is so dissapointing to have been mispresented as this bungeling boob that is so damn careless I am a danger to myself, my coworkers and the plant in general.....sigh
Ya wonder how I could have managed to keep myself alive all of this time and raise children for 16 years without any loss of life or major destruction if I am so liable to cause death and mayhem in the blink of an eye....my gosh, you wonder if the streets of our city are safe to walk in knowing that I might inadvertantly cause catastrophy at any turn.
I could go on and on, sorry about hijacking your thread vickles, I really REALLY identify with your dilemma, at least your boss sees through the lies.
I don't get it either how people can be so vicious to others that have been only nice to them. The only thing I can come up with is what my friend at work told me. He said the reason she is doing this is because she is jealous of my life and my children.
I'm like, huh? I guess the grass is always greener sort of thing? Maybe she should handle my problems and my kids for a week and then she could go back home and be thankful...this woman lives in a big, really beautiful home. Something I can admire but not have in this lifetime, if you know what I mean. She has a husband that appears nice, and two beautiful children.
But I do know she likes to be the center of things and wants people to think she is very giving and nice herself. Then when I started work people started gravitated to me because they said she can be very irritating...which I agree. She wants to know everyone's personal business and has no boundaries.
I put boundaries on her because she was just way too personal with me.
You are not hijacking my thread whatsoever...this is the kind of stuff that I wanted out. I know if I'm going through this then there has to be other gs'ers going through this stuff too.
Today, I was sent home early as some other people were going home, including my bosses. They didn't want this woman and me staying together because they were afraid of us fighting and the woman going to the main boss about it and getting me fired in the process.
I asked why I was being sent home early instead of her and they said that I was the one that wouldn't have a fit about going home early....lol well yeah, I'm nice but I also need the money. But I decided not to fight about it since they have let this woman quit.
They said they won't let her undo her decision so she will be gone in a while...thank goodness.
But, my question is, is it good to be nice? It sometimes feels like it is not worth it.
I have tried not being nice but I feel so guilty for the person that I was not nice too.
Sorry I'm posting so much about this you guys!!! It just something that has been bothering me even before this happened.
In life there are mean people we have to deal with and sometimes being naive to these situations backfire on us.
In a lot of ways we really didn't deal with this sort of thing in twi on the surface until you really were in the thick of things. Then we left or were kicked out and still hurting from these attacks.
I haven't quite figured out how to harden my heart from these people but still have the love that I want to keep. I definitely don't want to be like them....where is the balance?
I've had this happen to me before. I found the best way for me is to just sincerely smile at them and ignore. They will either let their dislike boil over to the point of them becoming an axe murderer or they will come around. Who knows, they have the potential of becoming thier next best friend.
Having been an employer for the past 18 years I can say I never would have put up with an employee coming to me with an unfounded "I don't like the other person" complaint. Don't play this office politics type of game. Do exactly what you always do in light of your job performance and let the co-worker play the game by themselves.
I asked why I was being sent home early instead of her and they said that I was the one that wouldn't have a fit about going home early
Nothing like being penalized for keeping yourself under control. This woman sounds like a serial manipulator. Somebody in authority there needs to grow a back bone and put her in her place.
I read your story and don't have anything useful to contribute except that what I have found working in offices for over 20 years is that I believe one gets the best results when one keeps their mouth shut and does their work.
I don't go to work to socialize and make friends. If I want to socialize, I do it on my own time, during lunch hour or before or after work, not on the bosses time.
Perhaps this person was annoyed because of that? You being all friendly and all and it looks like you're not giving an honest day's work? Don't know, I'm only guessing.
That person shot themselves in the foot by giving that ultimatum. However, if I were you, I'd just watch my back, and look busy. :)-->
I had the exact same thing happen to me at a firm in NYC. The office manager had it out for me. She had been there 15 years.
I never gave her or anyone at work anything to say about me. I said good morning and good night. Made sure my boss and I had a good relationship. I did point out to my boss in casual conversation how this woman did not work but gossiped with the other young ladies all the time. He started watching.
She would go to the managing partner and say, she wanted me fired. They'd say, well what has she done? Well, nothing. There was no incident or anything I'd said she could use. Meanwhile, I was an excellent worker and my bosses loved me.
Finally, she went to her boss - the top managing partner, and gave the ultimatum - either I go, or she goes. They told her goodbye. She was shocked. I was thrilled. She went.
Ignore the glares - just remember - she's outta there!
I have watched so many people in the work force hang themselves with their own rope. Just give them time. Its the work place. Do your job, never get involved in office politics, gossip, etc. - keep a professional attitude at all times - even if that means people think you are "cold." The office is not my social life. Do I care if someone gets an attitude - no. Its their problem, not mine. Don't take the office too personally.
Seriously, though, it sounds like Vickles's problem (as well as those of some other posters) is taking care of itself. Rascal, I don't know what to tell you except pay special attention to your procedures. I don't know what you do for a living, but it sounds that there may be real opportunities for a safety incident. Are there WRITTEN procedures for you to follow? (If your business is ISO 9000 approved, there have to be written procedures for critical operations.)
Last summer I was having some health problems and my boss hired me the most terrific assistant she could find, so I could drop down to part time hours and not worry.
The woman she hired was terrifically qualified, but so bizarre and controlling she was impossible to work with. SHe talked about me behind my back to many employees, tried to change every single thing in my program--it was a nightmare. I stayed calm and talked with her to her face, talked with my boss, we tried a mediation , nothing changed. Finally, this woman got moved to another position where she could be the 'boss.'
They have yet to find another employee that can work with her, constant revolving door. Recently inspecting her rooms, the boss found all types of health dept violations, enough to get us shut down. SO now she is on some type of probation or something, one step away from being fired.
I'm glad I took the high road and avoided the gossip mill where I work, because I came out of the mess looking good.
Hopefully your situation will be resolved in your favor!
Oh all this sounds SOOOO familiar....this is what I had to deal with in the Military. :(-->
If you are good looking, (I was), and a expert in weapons, (I was), and kick foot in the physical training department (I did), ;)--> and don't put out sexually, you will be hated severly.
I spent all my time putting out fires that were started by jealous, hateful, evil, mysogonist men, and spineless, whorish, women. -->
The women I lost all respect for, the guys hated me for being pretty, smart, and not serving their sexual lusts.
How dare I not serve them??
Since I didn't put out, I was labled as a Lesbian, then I was labled as prejudiced, then I was just a plain ole bitch.
Hmmm
Looking back I should have been ulgy then they would have left me alone. But who is ugly?
We are all beautiful, right?
maybe that is why I gained all this weight....
I had to deal with this kind of crap the entire time I was in, it was simply nerve wracking on me.
Posted February 16, 2005 03:32 Vickles -- Ahem -- you know that I am only 3 hours away from you, and I would dearly love to hop in the truck, put on some good tunes, have a thermos of coffee handy, and come down and *kick foot*, if need be.
And after I am done there, meebe you can come up here, and do some *kick foot* on my boss Tim, who intensely dislikes both the people he works with, as well as the job he is in.
Would you consider that an even *trade*?
I can use my height to my advantage, when getting in other folks faces, and would be glad to do so for you too. Just let me know.
It may be cliche' but "what goes around DOES come around" Hmmmm maybe it's because "God is not mocked, what a man sows he will reap" or something like that..... I donno... that's close I think... well anyway...
I'm not into budda either WW... BUT I agree, it is sorta a "karma" thing.
Had a similar situation here where I work. Office manager of 22+ years hated me on the day I walked in. Over the next 4 years her hatrid, anger, animosity, ate her alive.
I ignored her as much as possible. Worked VERY VERY hard. Made my boss 500K in three years.
I never said one word of complaint to my boss about her. BUT Every person (there are 5 others) here did. The problem resolved itself. She was retired 6 months early (involuntery).
So keep being a GREAT employee, if you are the best you will stand out and your employer will notice... oh yeah... he already has... hasn't he???
We all seem to have a favorite gripe about twi but I must say that we DID (yes some of us already knew)learn good work ethics, honest day for an honest dollar, working for the lord not man, etc.etc.etc. I still believe in spiritual principle being real. Even if you're unjustly accused, fired, wronged, etc.etc. God will make something better happen.
Hmmm like this guy I knew named Joseph... man you wouldn't believe this guy's story... talk about falling in s hit and coming out smelling like a rose.... AND not just once but TWICE!!!
Like Shakespeare asid, "To thine ownself be true."
Like Jesus said, "Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."
Being black, one gets more that his fair share of the types of injustices you guys have recounted. Reading through the thread, I found myself saying, "been there, done that, tried this, that, & experienced that too," to just about everything that was said.
I'd agree that being in TWI as young as a lot of us where did us an injustice when it comes to navigating through rough waters. They were very deficient when it came to teaching and modeling people skills. "Just pray about it." Or "believe for them to see what's best..." just doesn't always cut it as far as deterring or even squelching an attack.
You really must see it as an attack, because when you're out on the street w/ no paycheck "because" of stuff you didn't do... what's the difference? Sure. God IS in control, He DOES have your back, but we are laborers TOGETHER w/Him.
Joseph, Daniel, Shadrack, Mesheck & Abednego are some of my favorite Bible heroes. However.... Joseph DID get thrown in the klink. Daniel can tell you what lion's breath smells like & S,M, & A DID bet thrown into the burning, FIREY, FURNACE.... It was HOT in there, lions are SCARY, and Joseph SUFFERED in that hell hole of a jail.
What I like most about those three examples is how wise Joseph was WHILE he was in the jail; Danile was like, "You're just gonna have to throw me to the lions then." Shadrach & Co. said, "We will NOT bow and we WILL NOT burn. They all together show a cross-section of how God thinks we should handle crap like this. What we see is they all were TRUE to themselves in the way they served God, not men, in light of situations where they were NOT being treated fairly. The outcome was the same for all of them as God worked "all things together for good" in their lives.
If you've truly done your best to be your best in that position and they get rid of you (ie. "jail" you, "feed you to the lions," or "throw you in the fire.") rest assurred. BE as wise as you can. Make adept moves in the situation, fear not! The lions won't eat you and if you don't BOW, you will NOT burn; no matter how much you suffer, tremble or sweat. God WILL prosper you.
I've actually had it happen to me that an agency who refused to even INTERVIEW me, much less hire me, later came knocking on my door when I was running a dept. in a BIG company where I was "the guy" they had to pitch their services to & the ONLY one to whom the decision to hire THEM fell on.
I must admit it was SOOOO much fun when the agency head said to me, "How come I never heard of you? We were looking for an art director not too long ago." I smiled. Then he said, "Hey I've seen that logo before...." It was my personal business card from my portfolio.
"You saw that when I applied for your art director position... "not too long ago...."
I didn't even get an interview." His face and the tone of the way he said, "Oh...." Really felt good...maybe that was what God was talking about? I don't know. Wasn't gloating but it sure felt ok at that moment.
The meeting ended shortly after that.
Foundationally, my experience has taught that a combination of Shakespeare's, "To thine ownself be true" and Jesus' "Be wise as serpents yet harmless as doves." is what to do.
Practically speaking; while being true to one's self, wisdon requires that we objectively evaluate our own OTJ performance carefully considering how much fuel we may inadvertently be throwing on the agressors "fire."
You have obviously done that and determined that the *itch, is treating you unjustly. You have as much right to YOUR job as anyone, which includes making whatever mistakes you may (and will) as human make.
Be true to yourself. Part of the "insidiousity" (hey, I like to make up words :)-->0 of the thing is that if you spend too much time doing (wise) CYA manuevers, your own actions in this will SURELY be used against you. Do your job to the best of your ability, while watching out of one eye, knowing that you are being watched. Ads some stress, yes, but you've already determined this is a job you want to keep.
I used to do the "My superior work will surely show all concerned that I'm worthy...." Problem with this is that they ones who would decide to let YOU go are usually the one's who see your superior work the least. The aggressor is counting on the "squeaking wheel theory." You can't "unsqueak their wheel" by polishing the chrome on your performance.
As gross as this may sound, Rosalie Rivenbark, (of all people) taught me a counter move to this problem while I was experienceing the same type of thing at HQ. She said this,
"It doesn't matter how well you perform on a day to day basis when it comes to things like this. They are using a few well placed "bombs" (their disparaging comments/behaviors against you) to destroy your consistent good works. You must counter with a few well placed "bombs" on the good side. The people who do the final evaluating only see & hear the explosions."
Anybody know a better serpent than RR?
SO. Not being one to toot my own horn. I found myself constantly called onto the carpet having to roll out a long list of stuff to counter their obvious BS. When I began to take the opportunity to selectively "toot," I was better able to poo poo shadows of dispersion. Others, who'd heard the 'toot's would then be more easliy able to discern the BS attack cause they had their own evidence to the contrary.
I HATE doing stuff like that, but hey. The nature of the beast is that the ones with the power NEED to know, on their own that you're cool. A person really adept at the attack mode stuff will manipulate you into looking like "all of the above" on what THEY say you are IF you wait until "the carpet" to "retaliate. Then they put you on your heels.
In my Ad Agency, our motto is "Business is like war and the battlefield is in the minds of your constituents." To be successful in business one must do specific things to shape the thinking of certain people. You're never gonna change her thinking, as her problem is not with you, its with her. (Romans 2:1,2) When people do stuff like what they've done to you it is ALWAYS a reflection of themselves. Their groundless accusations paint a clear picture of who they are & where they're coming from. You can read them in what they say about you.
Unfortunately you must alter a little of your approach in how you do things to ward off her attack. Don't buy into the attack though. We ALL have room for improvement. If you can imporove, by all means do so. Then your enhanced performance will make you MORE of an asset to the company. She won't go away. It WAS a power play where she called on the boss's allegiance, He told her, "Well see ya." There is something, in her mind, perhaps imagined, that allowed her to think she could pull that.
Just drop a few well placed "bombs" and go about your lovable way. Take a time or two and "toot" about how you took a suggestion now you finished this thing that much quicker, or did the other thing SOO much better. You may feel a little stupid at times, It may grate against your ego to "thank" her for her unjust criticism and say, "I'll take that under advisement." (Smiling while thinking, "you dirty witch.
She's obviously pretty stupid if she doesn't love you like we do! Watch your back too. Cause it is what you represent to her that fuels her, not what you do. Your task is to do what you do without beign deterred from who you are. You "keep doin' your thang girl!"
"A soft answer turns away wrath (it does! it really does!) but grievious words stir up anger.
Man! It so sometimes hard to lay a sincere soft answer on somebody who has it in for you. But mastering the art of the sincere "soft answer" really defuses people. I'm not as good at this as I'd like to be. I tend to want to "tell it like it is," straight up. That makes on an easy target in the corporate world.
This is a specific tool God gives us to use to deal with angry people.
Someone once explained Romans 2:1,2 to me like this. Any time someone wrongly accuses you of anything, the thing they accuse you of THEY either:
1. Are doing the same thing currently.
2. Have done it themselves in the past and still WOULD do it.
3. Are self righteous about how they DON'T do it anymore.
....unwilling to participate in the back biting and tatteling. ... Apparently because I am unwilling to squeal er I mean offer proper *feed back* to my boss concerning my fellow employees, and their conduct...
... is what is turning them against you.
quote:
...(in other words, I would only say nice things) , it was therefor concluded...
...that you think you are BETTER than them.
Think about it.
If you only do good things, and refuse to participate in what they do that they KNOW is "bad"... THEN: THEY who KNOW that what YOU do IS good, they think that you don't do bad stuff WITH them because YOU think you are BETTER than THEY are. They probably feel you rub their nose into what they do by your NOT doing it.
From what I'm hearing, I'd say your problems there have little to nothing to do with how well you execute the safty procedures. I'm thinking they "set you up" by giving you erroneous safety stuff to prove to you that you are NOT better than them.
It's not about work, its about fellowship. They say you are lovable, right? I'm hearing that they would like to love you but you won't "love them back" (by participating with them). Then they're like "Here miss goody, we'll show you just how good you're NOT."
"Here.... Take this albert wrench and tighten the gzorden bolt on the thingamagig..."
Did they invite you on a "snipe hunt" yet?
If you handle it well you can turn this hell you're living into a sorta "hazing" thing.
I'm thinking since they say you're lovable, but.... All you have to do at this point is drop a few well placed "bombs" to show them that you really ARE one of them. They'll accept you almost instantly.
For example; I have this group of guys I hang with. We have a long lunch every Tuesday and every Wednesday is "Wing Night." It is a really interesting mix of guys, some of whom do some macho male stuff I really can't get with, like drinking more that I'm comfortablw with and dropping the F-word more than I would. They are a really great group of guys though.
I go to church faithfully every Wednesday and come late to wing night (we meet @ about 8-8:30. I don't get there sometimes before 9:30-9:45. I used to get a round of "Where you been man's?" & "What's up with you, you need a battery for your watch?" Stuff like that. Then one day somebody said, "He goes to CHURCH."
A chorus of "What?" followed, "You go to church and be late for wing night?"
I smoothed up to the table, grabbed a little steak knife from a place setting and said, smugly, "YEAH. I go to CHURCH. Keep fu@%in' wit me about it & I'll cut you."
Everybody around the table laughed & somebody said, "Pour him a beer!" Back slaps, male macho BS grunts, bumps, etc.
Now every time sombody messes with somebody a little too much the target picks up a knife, "I'll cut you man..."
I'm in. I'm accepted. I still don't cuss as much as some of them do & I don't drink as much as some. I'll even turn my glass over & punch somebody cause one guy in particular can really handle his liquor & he fills my glass up everytime I turn my head. I keep telling him, "No. I said I'm done" He says "Sure, I heard you, right after this one!"
You need to do a few things (a few well placed and executed "bombs") that are in the category of things they do, but not so far in that you can't live with yourself.
You won't have to compromise your morals & turn into them. The "bomb" you drop will blow up their defenses towards you. You won't have to do it a lot.
I don't cuss much out of a respect thing, not a religious thing. I just think that using unnecessary cuss words makes a person look ugly.
I cussed enough with the gang, I drink enough with them in other words I do enough of what they do with them to show them I don't look down on what they do, now they respect my decision to go to church. I get no flack (well not much flack :)-->) from them whenever I do whatever rather than hang with them.
The apostle Paul talked about becoming "all things to all men." If you can participate with them in something they do, maybe start out by agreeing if somebody says so & so is a real bitch or she's a slut. If so & so IS a slut...well you're not doing anything worse than if you said a smart person was smart!
Sometimes its hard because we saw people brown nosing in twi so its a real big turn off. But, I totally understand what your saying and although it sounds weird it does work.
Great advice everyone, Hcw, thankyou for your well thought out insight.
You bring back to mind the hatrid of Josephs brothers....the spitefullness of potifus wife....the injustice that he suffered in jail....I guess that even good people get villanised in spite of every effort to be well thought of.....
I applied all of the above advice in one form or another during my entire 90 day probation....and still was walked to the door ..... sometimes it just doesn`t matter how hard you try.
I found out that a couple of other 90 dayers were walked out too this week as well, and I KNOW that the other lady was an absolute sweety, a christian lady of gentle demeanor and peacefull soul.
I am persuing appeals, not that I want my job back, but the people in my dept are very upset with what happened and are hoping that I can get some attention from upper mgmt focused on these shenanigans....they are even signing an affidavit stating their opinion of my work ethics/safety habits....they are putting their jobs and reputations on the line willing to risk censure of their own....bless their hearts.
It was like playing a game that I didn`t know the rules ....dilligence in my work, perfect attendance, obediance to guidelines, politeness, honesty, integrety, apparently were not considered to be virtues.
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Scout Finch
Oh Rascal,
My heart goes out to you. I went through a similar situation at my last job. It got so bad I had to resign or risk a nervous breakdown. My physical health had already taken some very serious hits. I went to a therapist because it had me so messed up. I thought there was something horribly wrong with me.
The conclusion my therapist came to was that I was working with some very sick people. I tended to be very honest and open and tried to be kind to everyone - even the "unpopular" people. That was seen as weakness even though it had nothing to do with my job performance.
I thought I had left the whole "devil spirit" phenomenom behind me with TWI. After that last job, I have to think there was some kind of spiritual influence that made these people act like this. It just didn't make sense. I was doing a good job, not hurting anyone. I just couldn't understand their motivation for acting that way towards me and being so adamant about it.
You are in my prayers and thoughts. I will pray that this job works out or that if it doesn't, you will get a better job immediately.
Peace to you.
Scout
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rascal
Thanks scout, every word of your post rings so true for me.
It DOES feel like there is something *horribly wrong with me*...I agonize over WHAT I could have possibly done to have placed myself in the cross hairs so to speak?
How could I have tried so hard, and failed so abysmally.
I too have been honest and kind, unwilling to participate in the back biting and tatteling. It was indeed seen as weakness. Apparently because I am unwilling to squeal er I mean offer proper *feed back* to my boss concerning my fellow employees, and their conduct (in other words, I would only say nice things) , it was therefor concluded that I would not give it, because I must be unable to accept feed back myself....huh?
My job preformance has been excellent, my attendance has been perfect, I have never been late.....the only thing that can prevent me from being permanantly hired on after 90 days (which was up this week) is this safety stuff.
It is so dissapointing to have been mispresented as this bungeling boob that is so damn careless I am a danger to myself, my coworkers and the plant in general.....sigh
Ya wonder how I could have managed to keep myself alive all of this time and raise children for 16 years without any loss of life or major destruction if I am so liable to cause death and mayhem in the blink of an eye....my gosh, you wonder if the streets of our city are safe to walk in knowing that I might inadvertantly cause catastrophy at any turn.
I could go on and on, sorry about hijacking your thread vickles, I really REALLY identify with your dilemma, at least your boss sees through the lies.
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vickles
I totally understand, rascal!!!!
I don't get it either how people can be so vicious to others that have been only nice to them. The only thing I can come up with is what my friend at work told me. He said the reason she is doing this is because she is jealous of my life and my children.
I'm like, huh? I guess the grass is always greener sort of thing? Maybe she should handle my problems and my kids for a week and then she could go back home and be thankful...this woman lives in a big, really beautiful home. Something I can admire but not have in this lifetime, if you know what I mean. She has a husband that appears nice, and two beautiful children.
But I do know she likes to be the center of things and wants people to think she is very giving and nice herself. Then when I started work people started gravitated to me because they said she can be very irritating...which I agree. She wants to know everyone's personal business and has no boundaries.
I put boundaries on her because she was just way too personal with me.
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vickles
Rascal,
You are not hijacking my thread whatsoever...this is the kind of stuff that I wanted out. I know if I'm going through this then there has to be other gs'ers going through this stuff too.
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vickles
Today, I was sent home early as some other people were going home, including my bosses. They didn't want this woman and me staying together because they were afraid of us fighting and the woman going to the main boss about it and getting me fired in the process.
I asked why I was being sent home early instead of her and they said that I was the one that wouldn't have a fit about going home early....lol well yeah, I'm nice but I also need the money. But I decided not to fight about it since they have let this woman quit.
They said they won't let her undo her decision so she will be gone in a while...thank goodness.
But, my question is, is it good to be nice? It sometimes feels like it is not worth it.
I have tried not being nice but I feel so guilty for the person that I was not nice too.
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vickles
Sorry I'm posting so much about this you guys!!! It just something that has been bothering me even before this happened.
In life there are mean people we have to deal with and sometimes being naive to these situations backfire on us.
In a lot of ways we really didn't deal with this sort of thing in twi on the surface until you really were in the thick of things. Then we left or were kicked out and still hurting from these attacks.
I haven't quite figured out how to harden my heart from these people but still have the love that I want to keep. I definitely don't want to be like them....where is the balance?
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Out There
I've had this happen to me before. I found the best way for me is to just sincerely smile at them and ignore. They will either let their dislike boil over to the point of them becoming an axe murderer or they will come around. Who knows, they have the potential of becoming thier next best friend.
Having been an employer for the past 18 years I can say I never would have put up with an employee coming to me with an unfounded "I don't like the other person" complaint. Don't play this office politics type of game. Do exactly what you always do in light of your job performance and let the co-worker play the game by themselves.
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johniam
Nothing like being penalized for keeping yourself under control. This woman sounds like a serial manipulator. Somebody in authority there needs to grow a back bone and put her in her place.
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oldiesman
Vickles
I read your story and don't have anything useful to contribute except that what I have found working in offices for over 20 years is that I believe one gets the best results when one keeps their mouth shut and does their work.
I don't go to work to socialize and make friends. If I want to socialize, I do it on my own time, during lunch hour or before or after work, not on the bosses time.
Perhaps this person was annoyed because of that? You being all friendly and all and it looks like you're not giving an honest day's work? Don't know, I'm only guessing.
That person shot themselves in the foot by giving that ultimatum. However, if I were you, I'd just watch my back, and look busy.
:)-->
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Sunesis
I had the exact same thing happen to me at a firm in NYC. The office manager had it out for me. She had been there 15 years.
I never gave her or anyone at work anything to say about me. I said good morning and good night. Made sure my boss and I had a good relationship. I did point out to my boss in casual conversation how this woman did not work but gossiped with the other young ladies all the time. He started watching.
She would go to the managing partner and say, she wanted me fired. They'd say, well what has she done? Well, nothing. There was no incident or anything I'd said she could use. Meanwhile, I was an excellent worker and my bosses loved me.
Finally, she went to her boss - the top managing partner, and gave the ultimatum - either I go, or she goes. They told her goodbye. She was shocked. I was thrilled. She went.
Ignore the glares - just remember - she's outta there!
I have watched so many people in the work force hang themselves with their own rope. Just give them time. Its the work place. Do your job, never get involved in office politics, gossip, etc. - keep a professional attitude at all times - even if that means people think you are "cold." The office is not my social life. Do I care if someone gets an attitude - no. Its their problem, not mine. Don't take the office too personally.
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vickles
Thanks...
:D-->
Oldies, you have very good advice, but I don't think I said anything about not working. I work very hard.
Your right, I totally agree with you that this is not a social place. But it is kind of nice to have a few friends while working.
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washingtonweather
okay--maybe this is sounding really quaint, but
I took with me the idea that ....they will get there's
It also a Buddhist belief...karma
the "what goes around comes around" thing,
honestly, I find that most b*tchy people hang themselves eventually...they just cant keep teir fool mouths shut.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I can honestly say that no one ... living ... intensely dislikes me.
George
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GeorgeStGeorge
Seriously, though, it sounds like Vickles's problem (as well as those of some other posters) is taking care of itself. Rascal, I don't know what to tell you except pay special attention to your procedures. I don't know what you do for a living, but it sounds that there may be real opportunities for a safety incident. Are there WRITTEN procedures for you to follow? (If your business is ISO 9000 approved, there have to be written procedures for critical operations.)
George
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Bramble
Vickles,
Last summer I was having some health problems and my boss hired me the most terrific assistant she could find, so I could drop down to part time hours and not worry.
The woman she hired was terrifically qualified, but so bizarre and controlling she was impossible to work with. SHe talked about me behind my back to many employees, tried to change every single thing in my program--it was a nightmare. I stayed calm and talked with her to her face, talked with my boss, we tried a mediation , nothing changed. Finally, this woman got moved to another position where she could be the 'boss.'
They have yet to find another employee that can work with her, constant revolving door. Recently inspecting her rooms, the boss found all types of health dept violations, enough to get us shut down. SO now she is on some type of probation or something, one step away from being fired.
I'm glad I took the high road and avoided the gossip mill where I work, because I came out of the mess looking good.
Hopefully your situation will be resolved in your favor!
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valerie52
Oh all this sounds SOOOO familiar....this is what I had to deal with in the Military.
:(-->
If you are good looking, (I was), and a expert in weapons, (I was), and kick foot in the physical training department (I did),
;)--> and don't put out sexually, you will be hated severly.
I spent all my time putting out fires that were started by jealous, hateful, evil, mysogonist men, and spineless, whorish, women.
-->
The women I lost all respect for, the guys hated me for being pretty, smart, and not serving their sexual lusts.
How dare I not serve them??
Since I didn't put out, I was labled as a Lesbian,
then I was labled as prejudiced, then I was just a plain ole bitch.
Hmmm
Looking back I should have been ulgy then they would have left me alone. But who is ugly?
We are all beautiful, right?
maybe that is why I gained all this weight....
I had to deal with this kind of crap the entire time I was in, it was simply nerve wracking on me.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
oh my my god~~~ It's Hound Dog's Hand!!!
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Al Poole
WW has it right....
It may be cliche' but "what goes around DOES come around" Hmmmm maybe it's because "God is not mocked, what a man sows he will reap" or something like that..... I donno... that's close I think... well anyway...
I'm not into budda either WW... BUT I agree, it is sorta a "karma" thing.
Had a similar situation here where I work. Office manager of 22+ years hated me on the day I walked in. Over the next 4 years her hatrid, anger, animosity, ate her alive.
I ignored her as much as possible. Worked VERY VERY hard. Made my boss 500K in three years.
I never said one word of complaint to my boss about her. BUT Every person (there are 5 others) here did. The problem resolved itself. She was retired 6 months early (involuntery).
So keep being a GREAT employee, if you are the best you will stand out and your employer will notice... oh yeah... he already has... hasn't he???
We all seem to have a favorite gripe about twi but I must say that we DID (yes some of us already knew)learn good work ethics, honest day for an honest dollar, working for the lord not man, etc.etc.etc. I still believe in spiritual principle being real. Even if you're unjustly accused, fired, wronged, etc.etc. God will make something better happen.
Hmmm like this guy I knew named Joseph... man you wouldn't believe this guy's story... talk about falling in s hit and coming out smelling like a rose.... AND not just once but TWICE!!!
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HCW
Yo Vickles;
How would I handle it?
Like Shakespeare asid, "To thine ownself be true."
Like Jesus said, "Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."
Being black, one gets more that his fair share of the types of injustices you guys have recounted. Reading through the thread, I found myself saying, "been there, done that, tried this, that, & experienced that too," to just about everything that was said.
I'd agree that being in TWI as young as a lot of us where did us an injustice when it comes to navigating through rough waters. They were very deficient when it came to teaching and modeling people skills. "Just pray about it." Or "believe for them to see what's best..." just doesn't always cut it as far as deterring or even squelching an attack.
You really must see it as an attack, because when you're out on the street w/ no paycheck "because" of stuff you didn't do... what's the difference? Sure. God IS in control, He DOES have your back, but we are laborers TOGETHER w/Him.
Joseph, Daniel, Shadrack, Mesheck & Abednego are some of my favorite Bible heroes. However.... Joseph DID get thrown in the klink. Daniel can tell you what lion's breath smells like & S,M, & A DID bet thrown into the burning, FIREY, FURNACE.... It was HOT in there, lions are SCARY, and Joseph SUFFERED in that hell hole of a jail.
What I like most about those three examples is how wise Joseph was WHILE he was in the jail; Danile was like, "You're just gonna have to throw me to the lions then." Shadrach & Co. said, "We will NOT bow and we WILL NOT burn. They all together show a cross-section of how God thinks we should handle crap like this. What we see is they all were TRUE to themselves in the way they served God, not men, in light of situations where they were NOT being treated fairly. The outcome was the same for all of them as God worked "all things together for good" in their lives.
If you've truly done your best to be your best in that position and they get rid of you (ie. "jail" you, "feed you to the lions," or "throw you in the fire.") rest assurred. BE as wise as you can. Make adept moves in the situation, fear not! The lions won't eat you and if you don't BOW, you will NOT burn; no matter how much you suffer, tremble or sweat. God WILL prosper you.
I've actually had it happen to me that an agency who refused to even INTERVIEW me, much less hire me, later came knocking on my door when I was running a dept. in a BIG company where I was "the guy" they had to pitch their services to & the ONLY one to whom the decision to hire THEM fell on.
I must admit it was SOOOO much fun when the agency head said to me, "How come I never heard of you? We were looking for an art director not too long ago." I smiled. Then he said, "Hey I've seen that logo before...." It was my personal business card from my portfolio.
"You saw that when I applied for your art director position... "not too long ago...."
I didn't even get an interview." His face and the tone of the way he said, "Oh...." Really felt good...maybe that was what God was talking about? I don't know. Wasn't gloating but it sure felt ok at that moment.
The meeting ended shortly after that.
Foundationally, my experience has taught that a combination of Shakespeare's, "To thine ownself be true" and Jesus' "Be wise as serpents yet harmless as doves." is what to do.
Practically speaking; while being true to one's self, wisdon requires that we objectively evaluate our own OTJ performance carefully considering how much fuel we may inadvertently be throwing on the agressors "fire."
You have obviously done that and determined that the *itch, is treating you unjustly. You have as much right to YOUR job as anyone, which includes making whatever mistakes you may (and will) as human make.
Be true to yourself. Part of the "insidiousity" (hey, I like to make up words
:)-->0 of the thing is that if you spend too much time doing (wise) CYA manuevers, your own actions in this will SURELY be used against you. Do your job to the best of your ability, while watching out of one eye, knowing that you are being watched. Ads some stress, yes, but you've already determined this is a job you want to keep.
I used to do the "My superior work will surely show all concerned that I'm worthy...." Problem with this is that they ones who would decide to let YOU go are usually the one's who see your superior work the least. The aggressor is counting on the "squeaking wheel theory." You can't "unsqueak their wheel" by polishing the chrome on your performance.
As gross as this may sound, Rosalie Rivenbark, (of all people) taught me a counter move to this problem while I was experienceing the same type of thing at HQ. She said this,
"It doesn't matter how well you perform on a day to day basis when it comes to things like this. They are using a few well placed "bombs" (their disparaging comments/behaviors against you) to destroy your consistent good works. You must counter with a few well placed "bombs" on the good side. The people who do the final evaluating only see & hear the explosions."
Anybody know a better serpent than RR?
SO. Not being one to toot my own horn. I found myself constantly called onto the carpet having to roll out a long list of stuff to counter their obvious BS. When I began to take the opportunity to selectively "toot," I was better able to poo poo shadows of dispersion. Others, who'd heard the 'toot's would then be more easliy able to discern the BS attack cause they had their own evidence to the contrary.
I HATE doing stuff like that, but hey. The nature of the beast is that the ones with the power NEED to know, on their own that you're cool. A person really adept at the attack mode stuff will manipulate you into looking like "all of the above" on what THEY say you are IF you wait until "the carpet" to "retaliate. Then they put you on your heels.
In my Ad Agency, our motto is "Business is like war and the battlefield is in the minds of your constituents." To be successful in business one must do specific things to shape the thinking of certain people. You're never gonna change her thinking, as her problem is not with you, its with her. (Romans 2:1,2) When people do stuff like what they've done to you it is ALWAYS a reflection of themselves. Their groundless accusations paint a clear picture of who they are & where they're coming from. You can read them in what they say about you.
Unfortunately you must alter a little of your approach in how you do things to ward off her attack. Don't buy into the attack though. We ALL have room for improvement. If you can imporove, by all means do so. Then your enhanced performance will make you MORE of an asset to the company. She won't go away. It WAS a power play where she called on the boss's allegiance, He told her, "Well see ya." There is something, in her mind, perhaps imagined, that allowed her to think she could pull that.
Just drop a few well placed "bombs" and go about your lovable way. Take a time or two and "toot" about how you took a suggestion now you finished this thing that much quicker, or did the other thing SOO much better. You may feel a little stupid at times, It may grate against your ego to "thank" her for her unjust criticism and say, "I'll take that under advisement." (Smiling while thinking, "you dirty witch.
She's obviously pretty stupid if she doesn't love you like we do! Watch your back too. Cause it is what you represent to her that fuels her, not what you do. Your task is to do what you do without beign deterred from who you are. You "keep doin' your thang girl!"
Later baby.
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HCW
Also remember;
"A soft answer turns away wrath (it does! it really does!) but grievious words stir up anger.
Man! It so sometimes hard to lay a sincere soft answer on somebody who has it in for you. But mastering the art of the sincere "soft answer" really defuses people. I'm not as good at this as I'd like to be. I tend to want to "tell it like it is," straight up. That makes on an easy target in the corporate world.
This is a specific tool God gives us to use to deal with angry people.
Someone once explained Romans 2:1,2 to me like this. Any time someone wrongly accuses you of anything, the thing they accuse you of THEY either:
1. Are doing the same thing currently.
2. Have done it themselves in the past and still WOULD do it.
3. Are self righteous about how they DON'T do it anymore.
That was useful advice to me.
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HCW
Yo Rascal;
Actually, the things you are NOT doing:
... is what is turning them against you.
...that you think you are BETTER than them.
Think about it.
If you only do good things, and refuse to participate in what they do that they KNOW is "bad"... THEN: THEY who KNOW that what YOU do IS good, they think that you don't do bad stuff WITH them because YOU think you are BETTER than THEY are. They probably feel you rub their nose into what they do by your NOT doing it.
From what I'm hearing, I'd say your problems there have little to nothing to do with how well you execute the safty procedures. I'm thinking they "set you up" by giving you erroneous safety stuff to prove to you that you are NOT better than them.
It's not about work, its about fellowship. They say you are lovable, right? I'm hearing that they would like to love you but you won't "love them back" (by participating with them). Then they're like "Here miss goody, we'll show you just how good you're NOT."
"Here.... Take this albert wrench and tighten the gzorden bolt on the thingamagig..."
Did they invite you on a "snipe hunt" yet?
If you handle it well you can turn this hell you're living into a sorta "hazing" thing.
I'm thinking since they say you're lovable, but.... All you have to do at this point is drop a few well placed "bombs" to show them that you really ARE one of them. They'll accept you almost instantly.
For example; I have this group of guys I hang with. We have a long lunch every Tuesday and every Wednesday is "Wing Night." It is a really interesting mix of guys, some of whom do some macho male stuff I really can't get with, like drinking more that I'm comfortablw with and dropping the F-word more than I would. They are a really great group of guys though.
I go to church faithfully every Wednesday and come late to wing night (we meet @ about 8-8:30. I don't get there sometimes before 9:30-9:45. I used to get a round of "Where you been man's?" & "What's up with you, you need a battery for your watch?" Stuff like that. Then one day somebody said, "He goes to CHURCH."
A chorus of "What?" followed, "You go to church and be late for wing night?"
I smoothed up to the table, grabbed a little steak knife from a place setting and said, smugly, "YEAH. I go to CHURCH. Keep fu@%in' wit me about it & I'll cut you."
Everybody around the table laughed & somebody said, "Pour him a beer!" Back slaps, male macho BS grunts, bumps, etc.
Now every time sombody messes with somebody a little too much the target picks up a knife, "I'll cut you man..."
I'm in. I'm accepted. I still don't cuss as much as some of them do & I don't drink as much as some. I'll even turn my glass over & punch somebody cause one guy in particular can really handle his liquor & he fills my glass up everytime I turn my head. I keep telling him, "No. I said I'm done" He says "Sure, I heard you, right after this one!"
You need to do a few things (a few well placed and executed "bombs") that are in the category of things they do, but not so far in that you can't live with yourself.
You won't have to compromise your morals & turn into them. The "bomb" you drop will blow up their defenses towards you. You won't have to do it a lot.
I don't cuss much out of a respect thing, not a religious thing. I just think that using unnecessary cuss words makes a person look ugly.
I cussed enough with the gang, I drink enough with them in other words I do enough of what they do with them to show them I don't look down on what they do, now they respect my decision to go to church. I get no flack (well not much flack
:)-->) from them whenever I do whatever rather than hang with them.
The apostle Paul talked about becoming "all things to all men." If you can participate with them in something they do, maybe start out by agreeing if somebody says so & so is a real bitch or she's a slut. If so & so IS a slut...well you're not doing anything worse than if you said a smart person was smart!
Think about it. It just may work for you.
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vickles
Great insight, HCW.
Sometimes its hard because we saw people brown nosing in twi so its a real big turn off. But, I totally understand what your saying and although it sounds weird it does work.
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jen-o
hi vickles,
i haven't read all of the other (i am sure) astute responses,,, however as someone who is going thru a similar thing,
i first...try to do the unexpected and kill then with kindness.
if that doesn't work, i ignore them and carry about my business.
if that still doesn't work, i confront them.... which is usually not a pretty sight.
and after that...i go up the chain of heirarchy.....which is less of a pretty sight..
cuz i am too old to have anything to lose...
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rascal
Great advice everyone, Hcw, thankyou for your well thought out insight.
You bring back to mind the hatrid of Josephs brothers....the spitefullness of potifus wife....the injustice that he suffered in jail....I guess that even good people get villanised in spite of every effort to be well thought of.....
I applied all of the above advice in one form or another during my entire 90 day probation....and still was walked to the door ..... sometimes it just doesn`t matter how hard you try.
I found out that a couple of other 90 dayers were walked out too this week as well, and I KNOW that the other lady was an absolute sweety, a christian lady of gentle demeanor and peacefull soul.
I am persuing appeals, not that I want my job back, but the people in my dept are very upset with what happened and are hoping that I can get some attention from upper mgmt focused on these shenanigans....they are even signing an affidavit stating their opinion of my work ethics/safety habits....they are putting their jobs and reputations on the line willing to risk censure of their own....bless their hearts.
It was like playing a game that I didn`t know the rules ....dilligence in my work, perfect attendance, obediance to guidelines, politeness, honesty, integrety, apparently were not considered to be virtues.
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