But as an ex-cult member I do wonder about that type of teaching, again.
How many wives are going to get sick and tired, real quick, with 'well, Rev. so and so said I should do it that way at that seminar we paid 3 grand for last year remember sweetheart?'
Again, how about just good old fashioned decent men who find a way to pull it all together. Keep a job, keep themselves clean, be honest, spend as much time with their wife and kids as possible.
A man who is already a good one doesn't need some retreat or other man to tell him what's right.
quote: Men should become less passive and "engage" those around them, particularly their wives and children.
Men should ALWAYS *engage* their family. Looked at the link, and I can see where the *liberated woman* might take umbrage at what was said there, but if the *engagement* were to directly concern her and her family unit, I don't see how she could complain.
Is that the term used to describe women that stand up for themselves, expect their men to see that they are strong and independant?
Liberated......hmmm
I also looked at this article with the lens of a married women, which I was until my husband's death in l997. I also looked at it according to the 'type' of man he was.
Personally, in our marriage, it wouldn't have been a good way to go. Probably because my husband was one of the good ones that I spoke of in my first post on this thread.
Sounds like a cult teaching - just a little bit of truth and value cloaked in b.s.
A good husband DOES provide for his family, DOES spend time with his wife and kids, DOES keep things exciting in the bedroom :D-->, DOES have hobbies and friends he keeps in touch with, DOES treat his wife with respect and openly shows his love to his family.
I don't see what the big deal is? Don't men already know these things? --> I thought they did. That doesn't mean they do them, but they DO know what a good husband does. Don't they?? -->
As we become settled in our ways, life becomes pretty hum drum.
The kids are older, perhaps not at home any more.
It hit me really big last night when I was complaining about the TV programs that were preempted for football games, or whatever, I was sort of down because none of my shows were on.
Since when did I give a rats arse about the state of TV shows?
It never mattered before, but my 'routine' was broken for yet another night.
I was very annoyed.
I am in a rut.
I need help !!! :D-->
About this particular author:
I started listening to 'Focus on the Family' after my favorite Christian station went off the air. They are a little too extreme (conservatively) for my taste, but I like them better than the non secular AM stations.
I have heard this guy speak.
Nothing too radical, certianly not any of the markings of Cult.
Just a cool idea, getting some of us who have become settled in our ways to get outside of our routine and see what we can do in the way of being an active participant in life.
Sometimes a gentle reminder helps us get back on track. :)-->
I'm not sure if I'm "liberated" or not, but I am a strong, single woman who is feminine and pretty traditional in my thinking about gender roles. But, geez, I earn a living, pay my bills, raise my child, shovel snow, cut the lawn, clean the house, etc., etc. And, although I am attracted to strong, intelligent, self-confident, self-sufficient men who have their own interests or hobbies, I certainly am not looking to be rescued.
Before they were called feminists, they were called liberated women. It meant informed concerning the feminist agenda. The word 'liberated' may be archaic now in that context, but that general definition was the first thing that popped up when I read the title of this thread.
Reminds me of this young dude I knew from the old Way back in the late 70's early 80s. His father left his mother when he was 3, and his Mom broke her damn back working every job she could to see he had decent schooling and a chance at a good life.
Yet the Way taught him that women couldn't survive without a man...and he believed it.
I believe than men do need to feel like "heros" and they do need to feel like they are "needed" on some level at times. I also believe that women need to feel like they are "needed" and "wanted"...and this idea of engaging instead of sitting around watching the tube and talking to people not in your house via the computer makes sense.
I don't think I would want a man I was going to marry to run off and join these guys on retreat, however, the ideas of being fully present around spouses and children are great. How many times do we talk to people not in the house when the ones we live with are sitting a few feet or a few rooms away. This is okay if it's not done to excess...I have to watch myself and make sure I'm not spending too much time with the outside world instead of available to talk to my daughter. I did that when she was younger. I feel like I lost a lot by doing that. Being such a social creature, it is hard to not be yacking to someone else constantly...So I try to be more balanced with it these days.
One more point I meant to include...being available for my daughter includes LISTENING and being available for a spouse would include LISTENING as well!!! :D-->
The Lutheran church that I go to has sponsored a "Wild at Heart" retreat for the past two years. It's not one of the "official" $395 retreats sponsored by John Eldredge's Ransomed Heart Ministries, just one put together by church members. I've gone on both of them, mainly because they go whitewater rafting, one of those macho outdoor adventures men are supposed to be hard-wired to enjoy.
Before I went the first time, I read Eldredge's book "Wild at Heart" because we were supposed to discuss it. A lot of it is just New Age psycho-babble with some Christianity mixed in here and there. He makes some good points, such as men should be involved in their children's lives and handle their responsibilities, but all that stuff about how men really want to slay the evil villain to rescue the fair maiden is a little strange. He says that deep down all women really want to be rescued.
There's a bunch of junk about how we were all wounded by our fathers because they didn't love us enough and we need to be healed of that. That idea sounds like it came right out of that "Iron John" men's movement that was so popular a few years back. Eldredge also goes on about how society is trying to turn boys into girls and men into women, and how men should forget about trying to get in touch with their feminine side.
Eldredge tries to prove his points not by using the Bible, but examples from movies. One of his examples of a man who is "wild at heart" is the Brad Pitt character Tristan in "Legends of the Fall." Tristan fights men and bears, travels the world in search of adventure and romances beautiful women. This is supposed to be what every man wants to be and every woman wants to have. The fact that Tristan's adventures end up with him becoming a bootlegger, which results in his wife being killed, is apparently irrelevant.
One of the most bizarre ideas in the book is that men are "wild at heart" because Adam was created in the wild, untamed part of creation and then God placed him in the Garden of Eden. Women are more domesticated because Eve was created in the garden, and then she tried to domesticate Adam. The result is that by the time Eve eats the fruit, Adam doesn't stand up to her because he's already "whipped." Adam's failure was not "rescuing the beauty" which got him kicked out of the garden. Sounds like private interpretation to rival VPs.
Pirate, I'd go too, just for the whitewater rafting! I love the New River and the Eau Gallie in WV and the Ocoee and the Chatooga in TN/SC.
I have a problem with people giving too much credit to movies for solving people's problems, but I wouldn't mind being rescued by someone wild at heart. ;)-->
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Shellon
As a woman, I don't know.
But as an ex-cult member I do wonder about that type of teaching, again.
How many wives are going to get sick and tired, real quick, with 'well, Rev. so and so said I should do it that way at that seminar we paid 3 grand for last year remember sweetheart?'
Again, how about just good old fashioned decent men who find a way to pull it all together. Keep a job, keep themselves clean, be honest, spend as much time with their wife and kids as possible.
A man who is already a good one doesn't need some retreat or other man to tell him what's right.
If it's wrong, he already knows it.
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wwjesuslaughat
Girlfriend, you said a mouthful!
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dmiller
Men should ALWAYS *engage* their family. Looked at the link, and I can see where the *liberated woman* might take umbrage at what was said there, but if the *engagement* were to directly concern her and her family unit, I don't see how she could complain.
Just an IMHO.
:)-->
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Shellon
I don't really understand that word 'liberated'.
Is that the term used to describe women that stand up for themselves, expect their men to see that they are strong and independant?
Liberated......hmmm
I also looked at this article with the lens of a married women, which I was until my husband's death in l997. I also looked at it according to the 'type' of man he was.
Personally, in our marriage, it wouldn't have been a good way to go. Probably because my husband was one of the good ones that I spoke of in my first post on this thread.
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mstar1
This is a strange story:
...then he tells them to design their life after a movie character??
-->
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Belle
Sounds like a cult teaching - just a little bit of truth and value cloaked in b.s.
A good husband DOES provide for his family, DOES spend time with his wife and kids, DOES keep things exciting in the bedroom
:D-->, DOES have hobbies and friends he keeps in touch with, DOES treat his wife with respect and openly shows his love to his family.
I don't see what the big deal is? Don't men already know these things?
--> I thought they did. That doesn't mean they do them, but they DO know what a good husband does. Don't they?? 
-->
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wow76-78
Sometimes guys get into ruts of existence.
As we become settled in our ways, life becomes pretty hum drum.
The kids are older, perhaps not at home any more.
It hit me really big last night when I was complaining about the TV programs that were preempted for football games, or whatever, I was sort of down because none of my shows were on.
Since when did I give a rats arse about the state of TV shows?
It never mattered before, but my 'routine' was broken for yet another night.
I was very annoyed.
I am in a rut.
I need help !!!
:D-->
About this particular author:
I started listening to 'Focus on the Family' after my favorite Christian station went off the air. They are a little too extreme (conservatively) for my taste, but I like them better than the non secular AM stations.
I have heard this guy speak.
Nothing too radical, certianly not any of the markings of Cult.
Just a cool idea, getting some of us who have become settled in our ways to get outside of our routine and see what we can do in the way of being an active participant in life.
Sometimes a gentle reminder helps us get back on track.
:)-->
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jardinero
Since when did women need "rescuing"????
I'm not sure if I'm "liberated" or not, but I am a strong, single woman who is feminine and pretty traditional in my thinking about gender roles. But, geez, I earn a living, pay my bills, raise my child, shovel snow, cut the lawn, clean the house, etc., etc. And, although I am attracted to strong, intelligent, self-confident, self-sufficient men who have their own interests or hobbies, I certainly am not looking to be rescued.
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johniam
Before they were called feminists, they were called liberated women. It meant informed concerning the feminist agenda. The word 'liberated' may be archaic now in that context, but that general definition was the first thing that popped up when I read the title of this thread.
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mj412
I read it to say a man should live a full and active life and take on leadership roles with his children and wife.
A liberated woman would welcome such a man I would assume.
History has taught woman to be the care takers of men and children and our culture rewards females in this role.
this is saying No allow men to have feelings and share in the role of care taker YES I fully agree.
when dominance and roles become so entrenched the male or female must lose a sense of self no one benifits and people become trapped and unhappy .
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RottieGrrrl
Reminds me of this young dude I knew from the old Way back in the late 70's early 80s. His father left his mother when he was 3, and his Mom broke her damn back working every job she could to see he had decent schooling and a chance at a good life.
Yet the Way taught him that women couldn't survive without a man...and he believed it.
Nuff said.
Sick, and ungrateful.
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dmiller
That reminds me of a sentence that shows once and for all how punctuation affects a phrase.
Same sentence -- two meanings:
Woman without her man, is helpless.
Woman. Without her, man is helpless.
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reikilady
I believe than men do need to feel like "heros" and they do need to feel like they are "needed" on some level at times. I also believe that women need to feel like they are "needed" and "wanted"...and this idea of engaging instead of sitting around watching the tube and talking to people not in your house via the computer makes sense.
I don't think I would want a man I was going to marry to run off and join these guys on retreat, however, the ideas of being fully present around spouses and children are great. How many times do we talk to people not in the house when the ones we live with are sitting a few feet or a few rooms away. This is okay if it's not done to excess...I have to watch myself and make sure I'm not spending too much time with the outside world instead of available to talk to my daughter. I did that when she was younger. I feel like I lost a lot by doing that. Being such a social creature, it is hard to not be yacking to someone else constantly...So I try to be more balanced with it these days.
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reikilady
One more point I meant to include...being available for my daughter includes LISTENING and being available for a spouse would include LISTENING as well!!!
:D-->
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Pirate1974
The Lutheran church that I go to has sponsored a "Wild at Heart" retreat for the past two years. It's not one of the "official" $395 retreats sponsored by John Eldredge's Ransomed Heart Ministries, just one put together by church members. I've gone on both of them, mainly because they go whitewater rafting, one of those macho outdoor adventures men are supposed to be hard-wired to enjoy.
Before I went the first time, I read Eldredge's book "Wild at Heart" because we were supposed to discuss it. A lot of it is just New Age psycho-babble with some Christianity mixed in here and there. He makes some good points, such as men should be involved in their children's lives and handle their responsibilities, but all that stuff about how men really want to slay the evil villain to rescue the fair maiden is a little strange. He says that deep down all women really want to be rescued.
There's a bunch of junk about how we were all wounded by our fathers because they didn't love us enough and we need to be healed of that. That idea sounds like it came right out of that "Iron John" men's movement that was so popular a few years back. Eldredge also goes on about how society is trying to turn boys into girls and men into women, and how men should forget about trying to get in touch with their feminine side.
Eldredge tries to prove his points not by using the Bible, but examples from movies. One of his examples of a man who is "wild at heart" is the Brad Pitt character Tristan in "Legends of the Fall." Tristan fights men and bears, travels the world in search of adventure and romances beautiful women. This is supposed to be what every man wants to be and every woman wants to have. The fact that Tristan's adventures end up with him becoming a bootlegger, which results in his wife being killed, is apparently irrelevant.
One of the most bizarre ideas in the book is that men are "wild at heart" because Adam was created in the wild, untamed part of creation and then God placed him in the Garden of Eden. Women are more domesticated because Eve was created in the garden, and then she tried to domesticate Adam. The result is that by the time Eve eats the fruit, Adam doesn't stand up to her because he's already "whipped." Adam's failure was not "rescuing the beauty" which got him kicked out of the garden. Sounds like private interpretation to rival VPs.
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Belle
Pirate, I'd go too, just for the whitewater rafting! I love the New River and the Eau Gallie in WV and the Ocoee and the Chatooga in TN/SC.
I have a problem with people giving too much credit to movies for solving people's problems, but I wouldn't mind being rescued by someone wild at heart.
;)-->
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Pirate1974
This was the Nantahala River in N.C. almost on the Tennessee border.
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Galen
Pirate-
“ … all women really want …. ”
For the life of me I can not seem to think of a good sentence that I could say being with that phrase that would not get me in trouble with my wife.
“He says that deep down all women really want to be rescued.”
So he thinks that he has finally discovered the secret motivation for females. LOL
“…men are "wild at heart" because Adam was created in the wild … Women are more domesticated because Eve was created in the garden …”
Yeah that should go over real good here on Greasespot Caf?BR>
“Clark said, adding that treating women as a figurine rather that the personal image of God will hurt relationships over time.”
Could be.
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