Hey my pic is gone. Going to have to fix that. I have a new email addy too I need to update. it's rottygrrrl with a y instead of an ie okay everyone? Not that anyone cares but just in case.
Yes, you were missed! I even remember seeing some thread asking you where you were. I only remember you posting about your email troubles with some crazy woman. I hope that's all OK now.
The forums were down last night. I think there was a server problem. Anyway, my IE is hellaslow this morning too, but only on GSC.
HI WAYFER. Thanks for the welcome!!! Yeah that crazy woman is still out there hating my guts. She posted in her husbands AOL profile my full name and town and stuff and said I was into kinky sex and bondage and for a good time to call me. Man. That woman is insane. Anyway I went to the dog park and started screaming at her hubby that if she didn't remove that crap pronto I was going to call the police and a lawyer and slap him with a lawsuit.
So she did. Now she has some other stupid crap in her hubby's profile but it doesn't mention me by name. So she can do what she wants I don't care.
A MLM is referred to as "multi level marketing" It's a legal form of a pyramid. A get rich quick scheme. Amway was one and this one I'm referring to is called "Quixtar" which is Amway reinvented. The idea is that they sell some products, but the real agenda is not to get you to buy the products but to sign you up for 200 dollars so you can become an IBO. Independent Business Owner. uh huh. sure.
Then you go to meetings at least once a week and start spending bucks on their "motivational tapes and books" you go to conferences that cost a lot of mula and you are told not to read negative things, they brainwash you.
A lady I know (formerly from the Way) is involved in it and she invited me to go with her last week. Unbelievable how much this reminded me of the original Way.
These guys up there telling everyone how much money their making in "THE Buisness." and how we could do it too, blah blah blah.
These people all try to recruit everyone they know. friends, family, hell they try to get a name from the clerk at the 7-11.
The only way you don't lose your shirt in this business is if you get 100 suckers below you to do the same thing. And the only way they won't lose their shirt is if they can get people below them, and on and on and on until there are no more suckers left to go around.
Get the idea? They definately use "cult techniques."
You walk in that room and they're a bunch of smiling robots noddding and smiling and hugging each other. Blech.
But that's what this is about. 2 people I know are into this thing now. Of course they know each other through Quixtar because this thing becomes they're damned life. All their social activities and friends are through this thing.
It's hard to leave because your so damned brainwashed and you'll be thought of as a "loser" if you drop out. People have had relationships and finances ruined by these damn things.
HI VICKLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the welcome too.
I'm hoping that nobody on this forum is involved in an MLM and chews my butt out. But people need to be warned of this stuff. The 2 people I know are very intelligent people who are caught up in this.
Interesting that the one lady is a former wayfer. See how easy it is to fall back into the same patterns that we are familiar with?
I really would like to wake these people up, but I know if I confront them they'll be very angry. They really believe in this stuff and they are out to recruit the world.
Heya Rottie - I'm thinking that there's probably forums on these marketing scam deals - like for recovering "suckers". Some good old fashioned googling might yield sites that could be helpful.
Also, run don't walk away from IE! Most of the tech experts are strongly recommending other browsers now (I switched to Firefox and like it alot).
HI Pam! My AOL browser seems okay now but for awhile there these forums were disappearing than reappearing. It was driving me nutso. BTW I love your link. My rottie was tilting her head just like the one in the picture.
I am googling for stuff like that. There must be a hundred and one sites that warn people about this stuff. I cannot believe that intelligent people (especially ones that have been in the Way!) are so damn GULLIBLE!
I want to yell at these companies but damn, I'd like to shake these people and wake them up too.
The problem with this thing is that these people don't think of themselves as suckers or brainwashed, they really believe in this company. So they can only recover once they realize they have a problem. I would like to find a way to make them start realizing what it is they are into.
HI WHITE DOVE!! yeah I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading on Quixtar. All you have to do is google Quixtar and CULT, and a LOAD of info pops up. NONE of it good.
You know what creeped me out was some of the phrases she was using, like they were from the Bible, and then when I read other AMBOTS or ex-quixies, they said they used those phrases all the time. Just like Way-Speak. I wonder if the Way took lessons from them.
Okay Let's start out with 10 people. Each of these people is to recruit as many as they can. Let's say each person recruits ONE person. And then that is repeated a number of times. How many "levels" could you form? About 30 would involve the majority of the world population
WB Rottie!!! NOW we know why all those email we sent you were never answered!!!
Those scams are quite compelling to the 'get rich quick' or 'trying to keep head above water' person. I was in one for a few months...but realized how UNworkable it was and split rather quickly.
Sometimes people hafta learn the hard way..tell em all you can about it and then let em make their own choices. When they leave it...they'll probably NEVER do that kind of thing again!!!
All you have to do is buy this little starter kit for $300 ($20 worth of crummy soap powder) - Then sign up all your friends and family to do the same. You will be a millionaire and vacationing in the Bahamas in 6 months.
Q: "Why is this soap powder so expensive?"
A: "It's uh well .."super concentrated" and "organic" and
has nothing to do with the fact that it is marked
up 15 times before the end-user gets it.
Q: "Why does 1/4 cup of Tide ($7.95 per 60 oz) clean
better than 1/4 cup of our super concentrated
soap powder ($44.95 per 60 oz)"
A: You are just being told that by jealous losers that don't
want you to be successful. You aren't a jealous loser are you?"
(Hmmm ... Did someone actually try to use the soap powder?)
My mother in law makes a lot of money from one called Omnilife, which is based out of Mexico and somehow an "offshoot" of the one called Omnitrition from the U.S. She pulls in a few grand a month from them, which is a really good salary for Mexico. They're not bad, because the company does a lot for the communities down there. They've set up fancy schools that people can send their kids to for free, and a lot of other community services.
It's still a MLM though, and while their health food products do work and are generally good, I'm not really a huge fan of them I guess. Still, I just wanted to post this so you know that it's not impossible to make money from MLM, as long as you are careful and get into one that you can do well with. I have no idea how you determine that.
paw that's pretty damn incredible. No wonder the pyramid falls apart. I guess it's profitable if you get in at the beginning and are a good enough con artist. But the ones on the bottom always lose out.
HI CINDY! Yeah I'm back from the dead. Sort of. I know what you mean cause I KNOW if I say anything to this lady (who is a real SWEETheart btw) it will be taken not well at all. I'd be a negative thinker trying to ruin their dream. I usually have to learn things the hard way but DAMN. This stuff is nuts. These people can be in this stuff for years and make NO profit but spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year investing in this crap, but they hang on because SOMEDAY their going to be rich.
And Goey you hit it right on the head. The overpriced crapola (okay, maybe it's decent stuff) they sell is still not comprable to what one could buy at your local K-Mart or Target, or dollar store.
I read that the laws they have for MLM's are always broken. Since Amway got in trouble the FTC set for rules that at least 70 percent of the income has to be made by the product's outside sales and not by recruitment commisions. Well they break that law all the time. Most of the product sales are purchased by the people who are signed up as agents. They are supposed to buy all there stuff from whatever group their in.
Mr. P I've heard about okay MLM's too. If what they are focusing on is product sales to a consumer, than that's one thing, but when the main purpose is to go around recruiting people to recruit people to recruit people, and simply using the products as a reason to make it legal, what good is that for anyone?
What I truly dislike about MLM's is the manipulation explotation and deciet. Claiming to use "bibical principals" when the true god is money and material things.
They look at friends and family as being dollar signs. Everyone they meet is a potential "contact." The waitress who serves you, the clerk at the 7-11. I've even heard a couple of horror stories about trying to establish a contact at FUNERALS.
You can't tell me ones ethics and morals are not compromised by this. It's like they become so programmed this is all they think about. I just couldn't do this.
And this meeting! I thought I was at a church revival. What a bunch of overhyped BS.
Bunch of oily conmen in suits telling you how much money they make and you can too. I believe that like I believe I saw the Heavens gate cult was tooting behind Hail Bop one night and I waved to them. Actually I think I was plastered that night and did.
Anyway, thanks for letting me rant.
I'm glad I found GS I tell you. I'd still be a cult hopper to this day I bet if it wasn't for forums like this.
quote:They look at friends and family as being dollar signs. Everyone they meet is a potential "contact." The waitress who serves you, the clerk at the 7-11. I've even heard a couple of horror stories about trying to establish a contact at FUNERALS.
i'm sorry but i thought you were describing the way international....
i've been witnessed to by MLMers. i said, "been there, done that.... best of luck to you...."
I was invited to an amway meeting one time, years ago...I didn't know it was amway...a guy asked me out on a date and that is where we met...I was ssssssoooooo mad. I let him know it too. I don't like to be deceived!!!!!
quote: THIS DAMN THING REMINDED ME OF A WAY MEETING!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
I bet Weirwille was trained by Amway
There was a bogus story circulating in the early 80's that AMway was the devils counterfeit to THE Way, that they had stolen 'Wierwilles revelation' of outreach techniques and made money the central theme instead of God.
Yea I know,pile of turd story but the organizations do run amazingly alike...
Vickles and ex I hear ya both. What this does to good people is shamefull. If they need money that badly, I'd rather they just ask me for help rather than take money from me under false pretenses, conning me and trying to profit at my expense.
Vickles on a date? Geez. What a butthole.
MStar the list of similarities are ENDLESS
Idoltory of leaders
recruit and sponser (and motivate) to find more to recruite and sponser
endless tapes, meetings, seminars which all cost money money money
having big name speakers and ministers attend functions (for a large fee)
having their own house bands
disassociation from family and friends who won't join the business
discouraging watching tv.. only listen to their motivational tapes and read their books
only having friends and associates who are "in the business"
Back in the late winter of '82, I went to TWI's 40th anniversary weekend in Chicago. The hotel was a big one, and the TWI event only took up half the giant conference room. Guess what was going on in the other half... a HUGE Amway meeting!
"The Way" and "Amway". There were certainly some interesting dueling witnesses in the restrooms during breaks! Hah :-)
The biggest thing these groups have to sell is excitment. The same as tuppaware or Mary Kay. All the successful people are always happy, well dressed, and talk about success. he problem is that so many of the people who jion want that but arnt there emotionally.
My wife has gone through both those groups. She is not a saleman so she never succeeds. It would always go away to the big meetings and leave me alone with the kids. No problem, I love my boys. But finally I told her that I was going to a family reunion without her. It was my turn to have a weekend away by myself. She didn't like it but it got her to understand what she was doing. She still sells a little MK but doesnt go to the meetings. Thats what worked for me.
Most of these people AREN'T salespeople. ME included. And yeah the excitement, dress for success code is definitely a big part of their persona. Interesting about the meetings. For these companies to emphasize families and then tear them away with meetings is pure hypocrisy.
I believe with MaryKay the emphasis is more on the product selling than recruiting. Although I still find it annoying to be pestered by co/workers and the like to come to lingerie parties or a makeup facial/bath presentation, to be honest with you.
Many of these products they sell are superfluous. (Did I spell that right?) It's stuff you don't need. You would never buy it before someone hits you from this organization. You go to one of their "parties" and you end up buying something stupid because you feel obligated.
And the people from Amway/Quixtar end up buying a lot of this stuff themselves so they can earn "Points Values" The normal consumer doesn't want to buy this stuff, it's not a good enough value for the money. So they end up with cartons of product in their garage they don't need.
Plus the "God" thing bugs me. WE put the emphasis on GOD first, then FAMILY...etc. etc. Like that's supposed to give them such integrity.
With some of these groups like AMWAY though, they would have you think that the 12 apostles were the original distributors, and GOD is their upline.
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RottieGrrrl
Hey my pic is gone. Going to have to fix that. I have a new email addy too I need to update. it's rottygrrrl with a y instead of an ie okay everyone? Not that anyone cares but just in case.
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Nottawayfer
Welcome back Girl!
Yes, you were missed! I even remember seeing some thread asking you where you were. I only remember you posting about your email troubles with some crazy woman. I hope that's all OK now.
The forums were down last night. I think there was a server problem. Anyway, my IE is hellaslow this morning too, but only on GSC.
I haven't heard of MLM. What is it?
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RottieGrrrl
HI WAYFER. Thanks for the welcome!!! Yeah that crazy woman is still out there hating my guts. She posted in her husbands AOL profile my full name and town and stuff and said I was into kinky sex and bondage and for a good time to call me. Man. That woman is insane. Anyway I went to the dog park and started screaming at her hubby that if she didn't remove that crap pronto I was going to call the police and a lawyer and slap him with a lawsuit.
So she did. Now she has some other stupid crap in her hubby's profile but it doesn't mention me by name. So she can do what she wants I don't care.
A MLM is referred to as "multi level marketing" It's a legal form of a pyramid. A get rich quick scheme. Amway was one and this one I'm referring to is called "Quixtar" which is Amway reinvented. The idea is that they sell some products, but the real agenda is not to get you to buy the products but to sign you up for 200 dollars so you can become an IBO. Independent Business Owner. uh huh. sure.
Then you go to meetings at least once a week and start spending bucks on their "motivational tapes and books" you go to conferences that cost a lot of mula and you are told not to read negative things, they brainwash you.
A lady I know (formerly from the Way) is involved in it and she invited me to go with her last week. Unbelievable how much this reminded me of the original Way.
These guys up there telling everyone how much money their making in "THE Buisness." and how we could do it too, blah blah blah.
These people all try to recruit everyone they know. friends, family, hell they try to get a name from the clerk at the 7-11.
The only way you don't lose your shirt in this business is if you get 100 suckers below you to do the same thing. And the only way they won't lose their shirt is if they can get people below them, and on and on and on until there are no more suckers left to go around.
Get the idea? They definately use "cult techniques."
You walk in that room and they're a bunch of smiling robots noddding and smiling and hugging each other. Blech.
But that's what this is about. 2 people I know are into this thing now. Of course they know each other through Quixtar because this thing becomes they're damned life. All their social activities and friends are through this thing.
It's hard to leave because your so damned brainwashed and you'll be thought of as a "loser" if you drop out. People have had relationships and finances ruined by these damn things.
Dateline did an expose on Quixtar last May.
Anyway, that's about it in a nutshell!
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vickles
((((((((((((rottie)))))))))))))) my friend...I have missed you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RottieGrrrl
HI VICKLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the welcome too.
I'm hoping that nobody on this forum is involved in an MLM and chews my butt out. But people need to be warned of this stuff. The 2 people I know are very intelligent people who are caught up in this.
Interesting that the one lady is a former wayfer. See how easy it is to fall back into the same patterns that we are familiar with?
I really would like to wake these people up, but I know if I confront them they'll be very angry. They really believe in this stuff and they are out to recruit the world.
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pamsandiego
Heya Rottie - I'm thinking that there's probably forums on these marketing scam deals - like for recovering "suckers". Some good old fashioned googling might yield sites that could be helpful.
Also, run don't walk away from IE! Most of the tech experts are strongly recommending other browsers now (I switched to Firefox and like it alot).
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RottieGrrrl
HI Pam! My AOL browser seems okay now but for awhile there these forums were disappearing than reappearing. It was driving me nutso. BTW I love your link. My rottie was tilting her head just like the one in the picture.
I am googling for stuff like that. There must be a hundred and one sites that warn people about this stuff. I cannot believe that intelligent people (especially ones that have been in the Way!) are so damn GULLIBLE!
I want to yell at these companies but damn, I'd like to shake these people and wake them up too.
The problem with this thing is that these people don't think of themselves as suckers or brainwashed, they really believe in this company. So they can only recover once they realize they have a problem. I would like to find a way to make them start realizing what it is they are into.
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WhiteDove
Hey rottie WB
Quixtar is just a split off from Amway. Started by the kids of some Amway founders it is a internet friendly version. Same stuff different day.
I wondered when you were coming out to play again.
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RottieGrrrl
HI WHITE DOVE!! yeah I've been doing a hell of a lot of reading on Quixtar. All you have to do is google Quixtar and CULT, and a LOAD of info pops up. NONE of it good.
You know what creeped me out was some of the phrases she was using, like they were from the Bible, and then when I read other AMBOTS or ex-quixies, they said they used those phrases all the time. Just like Way-Speak. I wonder if the Way took lessons from them.
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pawtucket
Okay Let's start out with 10 people. Each of these people is to recruit as many as they can. Let's say each person recruits ONE person. And then that is repeated a number of times. How many "levels" could you form? About 30 would involve the majority of the world population
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Cindy!
WB Rottie!!! NOW we know why all those email we sent you were never answered!!!
Those scams are quite compelling to the 'get rich quick' or 'trying to keep head above water' person. I was in one for a few months...but realized how UNworkable it was and split rather quickly.
Sometimes people hafta learn the hard way..tell em all you can about it and then let em make their own choices. When they leave it...they'll probably NEVER do that kind of thing again!!!
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Goey
All you have to do is buy this little starter kit for $300 ($20 worth of crummy soap powder) - Then sign up all your friends and family to do the same. You will be a millionaire and vacationing in the Bahamas in 6 months.
Q: "Why is this soap powder so expensive?"
A: "It's uh well .."super concentrated" and "organic" and
has nothing to do with the fact that it is marked
up 15 times before the end-user gets it.
Q: "Why does 1/4 cup of Tide ($7.95 per 60 oz) clean
better than 1/4 cup of our super concentrated
soap powder ($44.95 per 60 oz)"
A: You are just being told that by jealous losers that don't
want you to be successful. You aren't a jealous loser are you?"
(Hmmm ... Did someone actually try to use the soap powder?)
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Mister P-Mosh
My mother in law makes a lot of money from one called Omnilife, which is based out of Mexico and somehow an "offshoot" of the one called Omnitrition from the U.S. She pulls in a few grand a month from them, which is a really good salary for Mexico. They're not bad, because the company does a lot for the communities down there. They've set up fancy schools that people can send their kids to for free, and a lot of other community services.
It's still a MLM though, and while their health food products do work and are generally good, I'm not really a huge fan of them I guess. Still, I just wanted to post this so you know that it's not impossible to make money from MLM, as long as you are careful and get into one that you can do well with. I have no idea how you determine that.
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RottieGrrrl
paw that's pretty damn incredible. No wonder the pyramid falls apart. I guess it's profitable if you get in at the beginning and are a good enough con artist. But the ones on the bottom always lose out.
HI CINDY! Yeah I'm back from the dead. Sort of. I know what you mean cause I KNOW if I say anything to this lady (who is a real SWEETheart btw) it will be taken not well at all. I'd be a negative thinker trying to ruin their dream. I usually have to learn things the hard way but DAMN. This stuff is nuts. These people can be in this stuff for years and make NO profit but spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year investing in this crap, but they hang on because SOMEDAY their going to be rich.
And Goey you hit it right on the head. The overpriced crapola (okay, maybe it's decent stuff) they sell is still not comprable to what one could buy at your local K-Mart or Target, or dollar store.
I read that the laws they have for MLM's are always broken. Since Amway got in trouble the FTC set for rules that at least 70 percent of the income has to be made by the product's outside sales and not by recruitment commisions. Well they break that law all the time. Most of the product sales are purchased by the people who are signed up as agents. They are supposed to buy all there stuff from whatever group their in.
Mr. P I've heard about okay MLM's too. If what they are focusing on is product sales to a consumer, than that's one thing, but when the main purpose is to go around recruiting people to recruit people to recruit people, and simply using the products as a reason to make it legal, what good is that for anyone?
What I truly dislike about MLM's is the manipulation explotation and deciet. Claiming to use "bibical principals" when the true god is money and material things.
They look at friends and family as being dollar signs. Everyone they meet is a potential "contact." The waitress who serves you, the clerk at the 7-11. I've even heard a couple of horror stories about trying to establish a contact at FUNERALS.
You can't tell me ones ethics and morals are not compromised by this. It's like they become so programmed this is all they think about. I just couldn't do this.
And this meeting! I thought I was at a church revival. What a bunch of overhyped BS.
Bunch of oily conmen in suits telling you how much money they make and you can too. I believe that like I believe I saw the Heavens gate cult was tooting behind Hail Bop one night and I waved to them. Actually I think I was plastered that night and did.
Anyway, thanks for letting me rant.
I'm glad I found GS I tell you. I'd still be a cult hopper to this day I bet if it wasn't for forums like this.
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excathedra
i've been witnessed to by MLMers. i said, "been there, done that.... best of luck to you...."
!
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RottieGrrrl
THIS DAMN THING REMINDED ME OF A WAY MEETING!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
I bet Weirwille was trained by Amway. Or visa versa.
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vickles
I was invited to an amway meeting one time, years ago...I didn't know it was amway...a guy asked me out on a date and that is where we met...I was ssssssoooooo mad. I let him know it too. I don't like to be deceived!!!!!
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excathedra
EXACTLY
when my friends came over to hang out, i smelled a rat. i just KNEW i was being set up.... how did i know ? been there, done that....
good people, good intentions, same as i was....
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mstar1
There was a bogus story circulating in the early 80's that AMway was the devils counterfeit to THE Way, that they had stolen 'Wierwilles revelation' of outreach techniques and made money the central theme instead of God.
Yea I know,pile of turd story but the organizations do run amazingly alike...
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RottieGrrrl
Vickles and ex I hear ya both. What this does to good people is shamefull. If they need money that badly, I'd rather they just ask me for help rather than take money from me under false pretenses, conning me and trying to profit at my expense.
Vickles on a date? Geez. What a butthole.
MStar the list of similarities are ENDLESS
Idoltory of leaders
recruit and sponser (and motivate) to find more to recruite and sponser
endless tapes, meetings, seminars which all cost money money money
having big name speakers and ministers attend functions (for a large fee)
having their own house bands
disassociation from family and friends who won't join the business
discouraging watching tv.. only listen to their motivational tapes and read their books
only having friends and associates who are "in the business"
On and On and On and I won't bore you anymore
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Steve Lortz
Back in the late winter of '82, I went to TWI's 40th anniversary weekend in Chicago. The hotel was a big one, and the TWI event only took up half the giant conference room. Guess what was going on in the other half... a HUGE Amway meeting!
"The Way" and "Amway". There were certainly some interesting dueling witnesses in the restrooms during breaks! Hah :-)
Love,
Steve
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RottieGrrrl
HA ha ha!
:)--> Now that had to be interesting. Ambots and Wayfers.
Someone could make a good cartoon out of that.
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ex70sHouston
The biggest thing these groups have to sell is excitment. The same as tuppaware or Mary Kay. All the successful people are always happy, well dressed, and talk about success. he problem is that so many of the people who jion want that but arnt there emotionally.
My wife has gone through both those groups. She is not a saleman so she never succeeds. It would always go away to the big meetings and leave me alone with the kids. No problem, I love my boys. But finally I told her that I was going to a family reunion without her. It was my turn to have a weekend away by myself. She didn't like it but it got her to understand what she was doing. She still sells a little MK but doesnt go to the meetings. Thats what worked for me.
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RottieGrrrl
Most of these people AREN'T salespeople. ME included. And yeah the excitement, dress for success code is definitely a big part of their persona. Interesting about the meetings. For these companies to emphasize families and then tear them away with meetings is pure hypocrisy.
I believe with MaryKay the emphasis is more on the product selling than recruiting. Although I still find it annoying to be pestered by co/workers and the like to come to lingerie parties or a makeup facial/bath presentation, to be honest with you.
Many of these products they sell are superfluous. (Did I spell that right?) It's stuff you don't need. You would never buy it before someone hits you from this organization. You go to one of their "parties" and you end up buying something stupid because you feel obligated.
And the people from Amway/Quixtar end up buying a lot of this stuff themselves so they can earn "Points Values" The normal consumer doesn't want to buy this stuff, it's not a good enough value for the money. So they end up with cartons of product in their garage they don't need.
Plus the "God" thing bugs me. WE put the emphasis on GOD first, then FAMILY...etc. etc. Like that's supposed to give them such integrity.
With some of these groups like AMWAY though, they would have you think that the 12 apostles were the original distributors, and GOD is their upline.
Well off to work for now.
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