I think the answer may fall into the category of "gender perspective". I would have said the opposite...that homosexual women are accepted more than homosexual men. There is a common perception that many men enjoy watching two women together but watching two men together is repulsive. I would bet that 2 lesbians walking into a bar full of men would be more accepting to the men in the bar, than if 2 gay men walked in together. On the other hand, It's not unusual to see a group of women with a gay man with them...they even have a name for women who hang out with gay men..."fag hags". So...perhaps the answer to your question is that gay men are more accepted by straight women and lesbians are more accepted by straight men?...Just a theory.
Well....I think it might be true that gay men are more accepted by straight women. Somehow, we don't feel threatened???? and gay men just seem to fit in, somehow.
But gay women, are.....more of an issue, more so than gay men, to both male and female. It's just my own personal observation here, nothing scientific or psycologically valid. I'm just talking experience. But the gay women are seen as much more.....I don't know....intimidating?
quote: But the gay women are seen as much more.....I don't know ....intimidating?
I'm just wondering why....
Can't answer the *why* part of it, but I can say "attitude". -->
Working in the health-care industry, there are many homosexeuals employed by the company I work for, and while the men are more caring, the women seem to have an issue about their *orientation*, while the men make no big deal about it.
Recently -- one woman (a lesbian) forced many of the folks at DRCC (where I work), to take a "diversity" class -- and even those more open minded than I -- agreed that it was a total waste of time.
Like I say -- I cannot answer the *why*, but I will say that no male homosexual that works for our company would have thought of foisting this on the rest of us. We deal with folks that are shunned by the rest of the world, because of their disabilities. And in my (imho), we are the last group of folks on planet earth, that need *diversity* training.
Attitude says it all, and this is a "just for instance opinion" on my part, but I am guessing that the woman who is lesbian, is more assertive than her *gay* male counter-part, simply because she is a woman, and feels the need to prove herself, as well as her declared sexuality *preference*.
Y'all rip me a new one, if you want -- but that is what I think, and I don't really care. FYI -- The best worker at the Noumenon House, where I work at is a gay man -- and he and I get along fine. He is a h*ll of a lot more sensitive than this woman who got the diversity crap going into "big meeting" mode.
JD --(the woman) -- wears a chip on her shoulder 24/7, and dares you to knock it off. Rob (my co-worker) did his best to hide the fact of his *orientation* (though we knew it from the minute we interviewed him), and once he found out we knew (and did not care) he never made an issue of it, and settled into the business of taking care of the four guys we were all hired to take care of, and didn't give us any of that "diversity" crap.
from my perspective -- and I've seen it happen -- women are on a mission to prove themselves (as if they need to)--> and lesbian women are doing so twice as hard -- since they have "more to prove". So maybe I do have an *answer* as to "why". Who knows?
What uncle hairy said was true I thought that being a woman with a same sex partner is better excepted than with men. I mean isn't it most men's secret fantasy to make it with two women? lol
But, in saying that, I would much rather be friends with a gay guy than a female. Gay men are more thinking like a female as far as they understand a woman and how they feel without the claws being out. Women lesbians are more hard core and unfeeling.
This is just my observation on this, don't know if its true or not.
So I totally agree with Uncle Hairy and dmiller on this one.
And by the way, ex10, I think this is a great topic..thanks!!!!
This has never been an issue anywhere I've worked. Sounds like this woman that pushed the diversity class has arrived at the same kind of absurd conclusions about straight people that some straight people arrive at about gays.
Perhaps it's because male homosexuals try to look nice and lesbians try not to? Again this is a personal observation, and in no way should be considered to cover ALL homosexuals.
In the genre of erotic films, lesbian encounters are widespread, but male encounters are almost non-existent. This may be due to the fact that the viewership is predominantly male. In the examples I've seen, the women involved in the encounter are usually gorgeous. I remember a "Saturday Night Live" skit where some guys are given one wish, and they want to see two lesbians go at it. Unfortunately, the lesbians they get are a lot more like the ones I've seen than the Playboy-video kind, totally creeping the guys out.
My personal feeling: two beautiful women together is a waste of two beautiful women. -->
The question presupposes there is uniformity in either male or female homosexual behavior. I think every case is unique, and the result of individual and unique personalities, as much as the larger culture.
To use a couple of stereotypes, "bull dykes" are probably as a rule less accepted (or socially acceptable) than "lipstick lesbians." It may have to do with social manners or just appearances.
People rely on visual and behavioral cues to navigate social interactions. When confronted by someone whose appearance/behavior is atypical, others may become defensive, and all the moreso if the person projects aggression or hostility. Masculinized women tend to project, if not cultivate, a "testosteronized" persona, which is by nature aggressive and territorial. They would probably not exemplify the Dale Carnegie principles.
Feminized men, on the other hand, may exhibit more passivity, which is perceived as less threatening by most people. Because it may also perceived as weakness, it may bring out the opportunistic and more aggressive, territorial nature in ordinarily agreeable, heterosexual/masculine males.
That said, I think lesbians usually have it easier in general, and if not, it's due to their own issues. I've had lesbian friends who were extraordinarily hostile toward the heterosexual roles we take for granted. They sometimes referred to "straight" females as "brood sows," among other things. On one level, they seem to have been traumatized by the image of heterosexual behavior, especially male aggression. Ironically, it's the same behavior they often tried so hard to emulate.
I've been around gay n lesbians since I was a kid. Growing up in the San Francisco area it was one of those things that sorta just came into being for everybody, not much fuss was ever made about it. This of course was when the Mitchell Bro's were expanding First ammendment rights by filming porn in SF, dope dealers were openly selling lbs of pot openly in Berkley and smoke outs were popular events at concerts. I was also raised Catholic and was aware of at least three gay priests not to mention some nuns that just looked well .... by someone...
So anyways lol I never had much perception problems with lesbians EXCEPT those rare few who seem to have a fantasy of castrating males
As far as gay men are concerned, I fell pretty much the same way but I do feel threatened when approached for sex, I think I developed it in response to and reaction to a situation I walked in on when I was an altar boy.
I live in a town whose nick name amongst some here is "Little San Francisco" in that Juneau, Alaska, allegedly has the highest population of homosexuals second only to San Francisco. Whether that is true or not, it must be fairly close to the mark in that there are certainly alot of gay folks here, both male and female.
It seems though, that there is a higher percentage of gay chicks than gay men. But maybe the guys hide it more. And from my experiences here, the gay women are more of the hostile "man hatin" type who are out to make sure that they do nothing that will encourage a man in their direction in any way shape or form. My kids, one a recent HS grad, and my other who is a senior (a boy and a girl) have referred to Juneaus' gay women as "diesel dykes" (along with the rest of the other high schoolers of course, for they are not alone in their assessment) because of the predominantly "butchy" type gay gals that seem to pervade here in Juneau. It would be nice to see more "lipstick lesbians" than the not so fair "butchy" types for that matter. But alas, I do like women, and feminine women appeal to me more...
From my experience, it seems to me as if the majority of gay women with whom I have come in casual contact, have in fact been rude, and out to prove their equality or whatever, and it seems as if there is in fact a chip there on their shoulders, with an unspoken dare for some guy to try and knock it off. And, as you can imagine, this does nothing to help harmony in the workplace, especially if the lesbian gal in question is working in what would normally be a "man's environment" such as construction or working on ships, which is the case with me.
But then again, I have a good friend named Mary who is very butchy, and was a fellow engineer on one of the ships (a diesel ship-haha)) I worked on, who was just fine with me (a somewhat "cavemannish" kind of a guy) when it came to our working relationship. In fact, I am the one who broke her in in that particular engineroom, and we did many breakdown and repair projects working side by side all of the time. We were such good friends that on a number of nights after hours, she came to my crews quarters with a bottle of wine and with a "gleam in her eye" for an illicit liasson! but I declined of course, being a married man and all. As an aside and slightly a de-rail, why is it that many times, lesbian women, when they get drunk, want to revert to "man sex"?
But anyway, Mary didn't seem to have that "man hatin" thing goin on, and because of it, we boys from the engineroom enjoyed getting along with Mary quite well. In fact, Mary did her job exceptionally well, which naturally made us fellas proud of her, because it is not common to have female Marine Engineers.
And so, maybe I have rambled, as you all know that I am wont to do, But I do concur with whomever said that it seems as if (many times-not all)lesbians have more of an agenda about proving themselves than male homosexuals do.
I think that guys are more like dogs. They don't think about it, they just want the food, and they'll do whatever it takes to get it. You know like; "Hey, I like homosexual sex, and that's what turns me on! So I do it!" Because amongst the gay guys I have known, they don't really give a $hit what I think, and that makes them less bothersome to be around, unless of course they hit on me or something, which naturally would turn it into a whole new ballgame, for I would not be Tolerant of it in the least...
Well, Lingoman, when I lived in Po'land, OR, that town was said to have the second highest percentage of homosexuals to San Fran. And I moved there aboot the time you moved away from there.
I didn't see too many lesbians when I was there. But a woman in our stick, er, twig, fellow.... was friends with a couple of gays, and had them over fairly often.
They were very open about everything. Including the "Emerald City Ball", a gay party that happens annually in Po'land.
One of them said, "A guy came up to me and said, 'Your boyfriend's chest is very hairy' and I said,'I know, I counted every one of them with my tongue last night'".
These guys were pretty pushy with their sexuality.
Well, a gay guy got pushy with me one time in the crew mess of my ship, and he kissed me on the neck! I think he was trying to prove that I "was uncomfortable with my sexuality" or some such touchy feely bool$hit, and so, I threw him across the mess deck and he landed in a plate of seafood fettuccine at the deckhands table! So, I guess they are not all "low key" eh?
Shoot, I guess there are no real answers, other than my opinion, which wouldn't agree with some, no doubt...
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GrouchoMarxJr
Interesting question...
I think the answer may fall into the category of "gender perspective". I would have said the opposite...that homosexual women are accepted more than homosexual men. There is a common perception that many men enjoy watching two women together but watching two men together is repulsive. I would bet that 2 lesbians walking into a bar full of men would be more accepting to the men in the bar, than if 2 gay men walked in together. On the other hand, It's not unusual to see a group of women with a gay man with them...they even have a name for women who hang out with gay men..."fag hags". So...perhaps the answer to your question is that gay men are more accepted by straight women and lesbians are more accepted by straight men?...Just a theory.
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ex10
Well....I think it might be true that gay men are more accepted by straight women. Somehow, we don't feel threatened???? and gay men just seem to fit in, somehow.
But gay women, are.....more of an issue, more so than gay men, to both male and female. It's just my own personal observation here, nothing scientific or psycologically valid. I'm just talking experience. But the gay women are seen as much more.....I don't know....intimidating?
I'm just wondering why....
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dmiller
Can't answer the *why* part of it, but I can say "attitude".
-->
Working in the health-care industry, there are many homosexeuals employed by the company I work for, and while the men are more caring, the women seem to have an issue about their *orientation*, while the men make no big deal about it.
Recently -- one woman (a lesbian) forced many of the folks at DRCC (where I work), to take a "diversity" class -- and even those more open minded than I -- agreed that it was a total waste of time.
Like I say -- I cannot answer the *why*, but I will say that no male homosexual that works for our company would have thought of foisting this on the rest of us. We deal with folks that are shunned by the rest of the world, because of their disabilities. And in my (imho), we are the last group of folks on planet earth, that need *diversity* training.
Attitude says it all, and this is a "just for instance opinion" on my part, but I am guessing that the woman who is lesbian, is more assertive than her *gay* male counter-part, simply because she is a woman, and feels the need to prove herself, as well as her declared sexuality *preference*.
Y'all rip me a new one, if you want -- but that is what I think, and I don't really care. FYI -- The best worker at the Noumenon House, where I work at is a gay man -- and he and I get along fine. He is a h*ll of a lot more sensitive than this woman who got the diversity crap going into "big meeting" mode.
JD --(the woman) -- wears a chip on her shoulder 24/7, and dares you to knock it off. Rob (my co-worker) did his best to hide the fact of his *orientation* (though we knew it from the minute we interviewed him), and once he found out we knew (and did not care) he never made an issue of it, and settled into the business of taking care of the four guys we were all hired to take care of, and didn't give us any of that "diversity" crap.
from my perspective -- and I've seen it happen -- women are on a mission to prove themselves (as if they need to)
--> and lesbian women are doing so twice as hard -- since they have "more to prove". So maybe I do have an *answer* as to "why". Who knows?
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Trefor Heywood
Historically it has been the other way round.
Many legal prescriptions against male homosexuality in the past did not have a corresponding one for female homosexuality.
Lesbianism was never illegal in the UK even when male homosexuality was. Perhaps the male legislators never felt threatened by lesbianism.
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markomalley
Horny b*st*rds. LOL
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vickles
What uncle hairy said was true I thought that being a woman with a same sex partner is better excepted than with men. I mean isn't it most men's secret fantasy to make it with two women? lol
But, in saying that, I would much rather be friends with a gay guy than a female. Gay men are more thinking like a female as far as they understand a woman and how they feel without the claws being out. Women lesbians are more hard core and unfeeling.
This is just my observation on this, don't know if its true or not.
So I totally agree with Uncle Hairy and dmiller on this one.
And by the way, ex10, I think this is a great topic..thanks!!!!
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papajohn
just a note.
faghags aren't women who hang around gay men, their women who try to 'change' gay me into straight men.
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vickles
faghag....never heard that term before...
:D-->
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johniam
This has never been an issue anywhere I've worked. Sounds like this woman that pushed the diversity class has arrived at the same kind of absurd conclusions about straight people that some straight people arrive at about gays.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Perhaps it's because male homosexuals try to look nice and lesbians try not to? Again this is a personal observation, and in no way should be considered to cover ALL homosexuals.
In the genre of erotic films, lesbian encounters are widespread, but male encounters are almost non-existent. This may be due to the fact that the viewership is predominantly male. In the examples I've seen, the women involved in the encounter are usually gorgeous. I remember a "Saturday Night Live" skit where some guys are given one wish, and they want to see two lesbians go at it. Unfortunately, the lesbians they get are a lot more like the ones I've seen than the Playboy-video kind, totally creeping the guys out.
My personal feeling: two beautiful women together is a waste of two beautiful women.
-->
George
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
lex & terry... "Give me a lesbo anytime
hahahh
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satori001
The question presupposes there is uniformity in either male or female homosexual behavior. I think every case is unique, and the result of individual and unique personalities, as much as the larger culture.
To use a couple of stereotypes, "bull dykes" are probably as a rule less accepted (or socially acceptable) than "lipstick lesbians." It may have to do with social manners or just appearances.
People rely on visual and behavioral cues to navigate social interactions. When confronted by someone whose appearance/behavior is atypical, others may become defensive, and all the moreso if the person projects aggression or hostility. Masculinized women tend to project, if not cultivate, a "testosteronized" persona, which is by nature aggressive and territorial. They would probably not exemplify the Dale Carnegie principles.
Feminized men, on the other hand, may exhibit more passivity, which is perceived as less threatening by most people. Because it may also perceived as weakness, it may bring out the opportunistic and more aggressive, territorial nature in ordinarily agreeable, heterosexual/masculine males.
That said, I think lesbians usually have it easier in general, and if not, it's due to their own issues. I've had lesbian friends who were extraordinarily hostile toward the heterosexual roles we take for granted. They sometimes referred to "straight" females as "brood sows," among other things. On one level, they seem to have been traumatized by the image of heterosexual behavior, especially male aggression. Ironically, it's the same behavior they often tried so hard to emulate.
Why do you ask?
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Steve!
GG - that is SUCH oversimplification.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Well, Gee Steve!, I didn't expect it to be the last word!
George
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Oakspear
Is there any answer to the question that WON'T be an oversimplification? (Including what I just wrote
:D-->)
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herbiejuan
I've been around gay n lesbians since I was a kid. Growing up in the San Francisco area it was one of those things that sorta just came into being for everybody, not much fuss was ever made about it. This of course was when the Mitchell Bro's were expanding First ammendment rights by filming porn in SF, dope dealers were openly selling lbs of pot openly in Berkley and smoke outs were popular events at concerts. I was also raised Catholic and was aware of at least three gay priests not to mention some nuns that just looked well .... by someone...
So anyways lol I never had much perception problems with lesbians EXCEPT those rare few who seem to have a fantasy of castrating males
As far as gay men are concerned, I fell pretty much the same way but I do feel threatened when approached for sex, I think I developed it in response to and reaction to a situation I walked in on when I was an altar boy.
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Bluzeman
Herbiejuan, how did you sneak that past the dirty word filter?
:D-->
Rick
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herbiejuan
I'm special
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Linda Z
X-rated reply (mothers, cover your children's eyes)
Oh rats, I don't have special dispensation from the censors. Never mind. The joke makes no sense now.
-->
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J0nny Ling0
I live in a town whose nick name amongst some here is "Little San Francisco" in that Juneau, Alaska, allegedly has the highest population of homosexuals second only to San Francisco. Whether that is true or not, it must be fairly close to the mark in that there are certainly alot of gay folks here, both male and female.
It seems though, that there is a higher percentage of gay chicks than gay men. But maybe the guys hide it more. And from my experiences here, the gay women are more of the hostile "man hatin" type who are out to make sure that they do nothing that will encourage a man in their direction in any way shape or form. My kids, one a recent HS grad, and my other who is a senior (a boy and a girl) have referred to Juneaus' gay women as "diesel dykes" (along with the rest of the other high schoolers of course, for they are not alone in their assessment) because of the predominantly "butchy" type gay gals that seem to pervade here in Juneau. It would be nice to see more "lipstick lesbians" than the not so fair "butchy" types for that matter. But alas, I do like women, and feminine women appeal to me more...
From my experience, it seems to me as if the majority of gay women with whom I have come in casual contact, have in fact been rude, and out to prove their equality or whatever, and it seems as if there is in fact a chip there on their shoulders, with an unspoken dare for some guy to try and knock it off. And, as you can imagine, this does nothing to help harmony in the workplace, especially if the lesbian gal in question is working in what would normally be a "man's environment" such as construction or working on ships, which is the case with me.
But then again, I have a good friend named Mary who is very butchy, and was a fellow engineer on one of the ships (a diesel ship-haha)) I worked on, who was just fine with me (a somewhat "cavemannish" kind of a guy) when it came to our working relationship. In fact, I am the one who broke her in in that particular engineroom, and we did many breakdown and repair projects working side by side all of the time. We were such good friends that on a number of nights after hours, she came to my crews quarters with a bottle of wine and with a "gleam in her eye" for an illicit liasson! but I declined of course, being a married man and all. As an aside and slightly a de-rail, why is it that many times, lesbian women, when they get drunk, want to revert to "man sex"?
But anyway, Mary didn't seem to have that "man hatin" thing goin on, and because of it, we boys from the engineroom enjoyed getting along with Mary quite well. In fact, Mary did her job exceptionally well, which naturally made us fellas proud of her, because it is not common to have female Marine Engineers.
And so, maybe I have rambled, as you all know that I am wont to do, But I do concur with whomever said that it seems as if (many times-not all)lesbians have more of an agenda about proving themselves than male homosexuals do.
I think that guys are more like dogs. They don't think about it, they just want the food, and they'll do whatever it takes to get it. You know like; "Hey, I like homosexual sex, and that's what turns me on! So I do it!" Because amongst the gay guys I have known, they don't really give a $hit what I think, and that makes them less bothersome to be around, unless of course they hit on me or something, which naturally would turn it into a whole new ballgame, for I would not be Tolerant of it in the least...
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Steve!
Well, Lingoman, when I lived in Po'land, OR, that town was said to have the second highest percentage of homosexuals to San Fran. And I moved there aboot the time you moved away from there.
I didn't see too many lesbians when I was there. But a woman in our stick, er, twig, fellow.... was friends with a couple of gays, and had them over fairly often.
They were very open about everything. Including the "Emerald City Ball", a gay party that happens annually in Po'land.
One of them said, "A guy came up to me and said, 'Your boyfriend's chest is very hairy' and I said,'I know, I counted every one of them with my tongue last night'".
These guys were pretty pushy with their sexuality.
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Cindy!
LOL...I think that's great!!!
More power to the Emerald City Ball!!!!
Want me to count YOUR hairs, mystevey????
Oh wait...already did....wanna know the number?
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Steve!
*blush!*
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J0nny Ling0
Well, a gay guy got pushy with me one time in the crew mess of my ship, and he kissed me on the neck! I think he was trying to prove that I "was uncomfortable with my sexuality" or some such touchy feely bool$hit, and so, I threw him across the mess deck and he landed in a plate of seafood fettuccine at the deckhands table! So, I guess they are not all "low key" eh?
Shoot, I guess there are no real answers, other than my opinion, which wouldn't agree with some, no doubt...
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