I can do it in two questions, one being long and looking like more than one question but it relates although I broke all grammar rules and the second short and sweet. Thrown in with one statement that I hope offers you what you requested.
1) Have we preconceived a person of race, religion etc based on what the world defines of them only, as well as, my personal opinion guiding me on what I want them to look like, as well as, not liking what they do as in prayer practice as example, as well as, it just looks so different that I seem unable to see it? Are these things that affect how we view others? Or what about the ones that are just insane and should not be considered and seen by me?
2) Do we throw out the good with the bad?
And a point I was making merely for objective purposes was:
We don't have to believe in the Bible to know terrorism and radical thinking (as defined by killing someone for your beliefs) is wrong.
My son and I disagree alot and surprise (well maybe not) we both like to speak our views.
It is easy for me to dismiss his ideals with the statement he is young . but I can not and dont .
the whole picture is never given to one person, I like to think it as given to the one body of christ.
When we know better we do better, in my twenties I thought and did radically different than now and so on it goes with my own mother driving me crazy doing what she thinks is right many years my senior.
what is the perspective? Kathy it is love and know to thine own self be true. If you love another their views will never hurt you, and if you indeed can be honest with your own self within then ideals and views will be ever changing and open to growth and that to me is what life is.
If I know something is wrong for me, I do not assume it may be wrong for another why would I? My standard as a christian does not fill any standard other than my own personal relatinship with my God. We as community , family , friends and the world at large define who we are and how we interact by being self. It is not an odd thing most consider harm to another as wrong it is basic human safety and concern for welfare . But the degree or measure one decides to enforce such concern is again up to the individual regardless of what the majority may decree. In the end it is always about you and what YOU think and do for every single person on earth.
to strap on a bomb and blow up a van full of people as was done today to that person means a noble justice in a righteous act. I do not agree this action would work for me to have the world notice my plight no matter the degree , but they do. Do I judge them? By what standards my own would be poor slobs and killers without any sense their own would be of a mighty soldier working for God , See that is why judgement is again a very personal thing for those who chose to judge and those who they may judge.
Prov 26:4 answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him
Prov 26:5 answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit
What I noticed about this is that if I do what verse 4 says, then my choice is to protect myself (lest THOU), and if I do what verse 5 says, then my choice is to help someone else (lest HE). Many situations involving ourselves and others require choices like that IMO.
quote: I don't go looking in the Word according to God or The World According To Garp either for validation for my belief terrorism and radical thinking is wrong. I just know it's wrong.
OK, here you're protecting yourself. Nothing wrong with it. This suggests to me that if you smell terrorism and/or radical thinking you immediately 'circle the wagons' and position yourself so there's little possibility that whatever it is will be able to hurt your heart. That's OK; we all have to do that at times.
quote: But what about my seeing others only as the world defines them. And more to the point, what if I allow my view of what they should be to blind me? What a loss of richness to myself I've brought on
Is it possible to 'circle the wagons' and hurt someone else? Sure. Is that what you mean by throwing out the good with the bad? It's going to happen, IMO. There is virtue in taking the risk of trying to help someone else, but some times you just gotta protect yourself no matter who it hurts.
what is the perspective? Kathy it is love and know to thine own self be true. If you love another their views will never hurt you
My love for another provides me the means to have more understanding and patience possibly, but it doesn't protect me from harm due to their views. Even though they may have no intention or desire to harm me.
to strap on a bomb and blow up a van full of people as was done today to that person means a noble justice in a righteous act. I do not agree this action would work for me to have the world notice my plight no matter the degree , but they do. Do I judge them? By what standards my own would be poor slobs and killers without any sense their own would be of a mighty soldier working for God , See that is why judgement is again a very personal thing for those who chose to judge and those who they may judge.
Your statements "to strap on a bomb and blow up a van full of people as was done today to that person means a noble justice in a righteous act" and "would be a mighty soldier working for God" I have difficulty believing God would have that as a characteristic of personal obedience towards Him.
I don't think I'm being judgmental, I believe that falls in the non-radical and non-terrorism categories.
quote: I don't go looking in the Word according to God or The World According To Garp either for validation for my belief terrorism and radical thinking is wrong. I just know it's wrong.
OK, here you're protecting yourself. Nothing wrong with it. This suggests to me that if you smell terrorism and/or radical thinking you immediately 'circle the wagons' and position yourself so there's little possibility that whatever it is will be able to hurt your heart. That's OK; we all have to do that at times.
I'd like to say if I smelt terrorism or radical thinking I'd immediately "circle the wagons" so as to not be hurt. But I haven't that skill nearly known enough. Yet I do attempt to keep my head and heart in check and even while making mistakes regularly. Still I attempt harder the next time I recover myself.
quote: But what about my seeing others only as the world defines them. And more to the point, what if I allow my view of what they should be to blind me? What a loss of richness to myself I've brought on
Is it possible to 'circle the wagons' and hurt someone else? Sure. Is that what you mean by throwing out the good with the bad? It's going to happen, IMO. There is virtue in taking the risk of trying to help someone else, but some times you just gotta protect yourself no matter who it hurts.
Throwing out the good with the bad is at times our defense mechanism kicking in I think, we can't afford more pain or confusion so we drop kick it all. Yes in the "circle of wagons" we can in fact close ourselves off from the good in the process.
We all must judge if we didnt judge we would be very unsafe Kathy. We judge for self preservation that is the name of life in itself. do I have a need to understand those who hurt others? We all are capable of hurting another to what degree and what means is often up to the influence of our culture family friends or basic mental state or in some of these goons they do it for religous recognition.
I have no need to understand them , and I feel at no loss to understand a mind of one capable of great harm to another requires some empathy of which I chose to have NONE . My judgement call for my life.
I do not drive drunk I wear seat belts, do I judge those who drive drunk and do not wear seat belts? Does the loved ones of those who died at their choice( judgement)have a right to consider them killers?
that is their choice but it hurts others which invades another choice to live in a manner that is safe. WE all must judge. to live.
We all must judge if we didnt judge we would be very unsafe Kathy. We judge for self preservation that is the name of life in itself. do I have a need to understand those who hurt others?
I'm to be mindful of others and my surroundings in respect to safety for myself but I don't see my observation being brought about by my judging them. This leading me back to being able to be harmed by a loved ones views. I don't have to understand everything about another to recognize danger signs.
We all are capable of hurting another to what degree and what means is often up to the influence of our culture family friends or basic mental state or in some of these goons they do it for religous recognition.
I've been looking at something recently that spoke of cultural influences and friends and how it influences what makes up our "self". Still I cannot buy acceptance of murder to others as a explanation sufficient to describe religious goons. I would call them insane not goons.
I have no need to understand them , and I feel at no loss to understand a mind of one capable of great harm to another requires some empathy of which I chose to have NONE . My judgement call for my life.
I can't agree that bombing a van of people or flying into a building with a loaded airplane is something I should ever consider trying to understand. It is insane, and requires no entertainment of thought on my part at all.
I do not drive drunk I wear seat belts, do I judge those who drive drunk and do not wear seat belts? Does the loved ones of those who died at their choice( judgement)have a right to consider them killers?
that is their choice but it hurts others which invades another choice to live in a manner that is safe. WE all must judge. to live.
I see warning someone that drinks and drives as responsible on my part. But warning a radical terrorist is quite probable worthless energy on my part.
I understand murder. Wow what a statement. it has taken me a half of century of denial to admit it tho.
I do not think I would ever kill or murder but I have now come to an understanding of the emotion that may be involved.
We had a twelve year old boy in New York murder a four year old . He was recently on TV as a 21 year old wanting parole board to let him free. This type I do not understand no he was not abused or tortured yet he indeed tortured and sexualy abused the four year old boy his reason for killing him? He was teased for his red hair on the school bus.
This I do not understand at all. Can we educate this child murderer who was only a child himself? how?
I understand rage now when a person who hurts someone I love I think I could murder them at the time..
A terorist has reason and a lofty elite one at that one that comes from god for them and they believe they will be rewarded for the act of it. It is not a sense less mindless crime or an acto of passion, or insanity .This is also fine motivation for many in our own christian circles. some believe here that abortionist should be killed. the fringe of all sects are radical to make the point of their beliefs known . I will say I believe to terrorize another person or nation is effective it does terrorize the people . does compliance follow? so they hope ,but not yet and not ever from America. Amen
I would have killed when I was in the way corps if they would have announced we were in a war. I would have believed them. I was ready with the full tank of gas and a backpack. Hand me a gun or a rifle? No problem if I thought my life was in danger.
I would kill if my family were in danger and I would do it to protect. I mean if they were in immediate danger and someone was coming after us. Murder? No!!!!
I would have to guess that most or all terroists must be sociopathic in the sense that they don't have a conscience of killing innocent people.
I think that is what your talking about? I get lost sometimes on this thread. Maybe its because I'm blonde?
Most people will throw out the good if they don't understand it...its out of fear, I think. To be different is fear.
For example, I live in a small town. If your an outsider they don't want anything to do with you. Your an outcast. Its not if I'm bad or good, its that I'm different. I come from a different part of the united states. Different to them is bad. Does that make sense?
Some people believe that if someone does something that isn't good they must be a bad person. I think a lot of people have black and white thinking on this.
Okay y'all it's in the middle of the night and I probably shouldn't ask this but is this thread that undefined? If so I'm sorry, and I'd suggest just blow it off.
vickles, you and Shell were just being honest, Cindy started out the same as y'all. mj412 and johniam grabbed hold of something they saw, which I'm very grateful for, but for the most part I doubt it made sense, as was stated.
I was inspired to consider our acceptance process of another, what makes up that mechanism. I just failed miserably to convey it.
Thanks for your concern though, but just let this thread die away okay.
Its because I understand completely even if I don't understand it at all. I am misunderstanding by understanding everything. Or is it that I'm understanding by misunderstanding everything?
Whatever it is I totally comprehend everything.. ;)-->
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Cindy!
You make some good points, Kathy....but can you sum this up into one point or question, please?
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ChattyKathy
Cindy,
I can do it in two questions, one being long and looking like more than one question but it relates although I broke all grammar rules and the second short and sweet. Thrown in with one statement that I hope offers you what you requested.
1) Have we preconceived a person of race, religion etc based on what the world defines of them only, as well as, my personal opinion guiding me on what I want them to look like, as well as, not liking what they do as in prayer practice as example, as well as, it just looks so different that I seem unable to see it? Are these things that affect how we view others? Or what about the ones that are just insane and should not be considered and seen by me?
2) Do we throw out the good with the bad?
And a point I was making merely for objective purposes was:
We don't have to believe in the Bible to know terrorism and radical thinking (as defined by killing someone for your beliefs) is wrong.
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Cindy!
1) yes we have, to our own detriment, methinks
2) I hope not
supplemental) we don't have to believe in ANYTHING to know that, methinks
I have met very very few "christians" who take the WHOLE PICTURE into account...but I keep hoping to meet them
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ChattyKathy
Me too Cindy!
:)-->
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mj412
My son and I disagree alot and surprise (well maybe not) we both like to speak our views.
It is easy for me to dismiss his ideals with the statement he is young . but I can not and dont .
the whole picture is never given to one person, I like to think it as given to the one body of christ.
When we know better we do better, in my twenties I thought and did radically different than now and so on it goes with my own mother driving me crazy doing what she thinks is right many years my senior.
what is the perspective? Kathy it is love and know to thine own self be true. If you love another their views will never hurt you, and if you indeed can be honest with your own self within then ideals and views will be ever changing and open to growth and that to me is what life is.
If I know something is wrong for me, I do not assume it may be wrong for another why would I? My standard as a christian does not fill any standard other than my own personal relatinship with my God. We as community , family , friends and the world at large define who we are and how we interact by being self. It is not an odd thing most consider harm to another as wrong it is basic human safety and concern for welfare . But the degree or measure one decides to enforce such concern is again up to the individual regardless of what the majority may decree. In the end it is always about you and what YOU think and do for every single person on earth.
to strap on a bomb and blow up a van full of people as was done today to that person means a noble justice in a righteous act. I do not agree this action would work for me to have the world notice my plight no matter the degree , but they do. Do I judge them? By what standards my own would be poor slobs and killers without any sense their own would be of a mighty soldier working for God , See that is why judgement is again a very personal thing for those who chose to judge and those who they may judge.
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johniam
Kathy: Bear with me a bit.
Prov 26:4 answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him
Prov 26:5 answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit
What I noticed about this is that if I do what verse 4 says, then my choice is to protect myself (lest THOU), and if I do what verse 5 says, then my choice is to help someone else (lest HE). Many situations involving ourselves and others require choices like that IMO.
quote: I don't go looking in the Word according to God or The World According To Garp either for validation for my belief terrorism and radical thinking is wrong. I just know it's wrong.
OK, here you're protecting yourself. Nothing wrong with it. This suggests to me that if you smell terrorism and/or radical thinking you immediately 'circle the wagons' and position yourself so there's little possibility that whatever it is will be able to hurt your heart. That's OK; we all have to do that at times.
quote: But what about my seeing others only as the world defines them. And more to the point, what if I allow my view of what they should be to blind me? What a loss of richness to myself I've brought on
Is it possible to 'circle the wagons' and hurt someone else? Sure. Is that what you mean by throwing out the good with the bad? It's going to happen, IMO. There is virtue in taking the risk of trying to help someone else, but some times you just gotta protect yourself no matter who it hurts.
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ChattyKathy
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ChattyKathy
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mj412
We all must judge if we didnt judge we would be very unsafe Kathy. We judge for self preservation that is the name of life in itself. do I have a need to understand those who hurt others? We all are capable of hurting another to what degree and what means is often up to the influence of our culture family friends or basic mental state or in some of these goons they do it for religous recognition.
I have no need to understand them , and I feel at no loss to understand a mind of one capable of great harm to another requires some empathy of which I chose to have NONE . My judgement call for my life.
I do not drive drunk I wear seat belts, do I judge those who drive drunk and do not wear seat belts? Does the loved ones of those who died at their choice( judgement)have a right to consider them killers?
that is their choice but it hurts others which invades another choice to live in a manner that is safe. WE all must judge. to live.
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ChattyKathy
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mj412
I understand murder. Wow what a statement. it has taken me a half of century of denial to admit it tho.
I do not think I would ever kill or murder but I have now come to an understanding of the emotion that may be involved.
We had a twelve year old boy in New York murder a four year old . He was recently on TV as a 21 year old wanting parole board to let him free. This type I do not understand no he was not abused or tortured yet he indeed tortured and sexualy abused the four year old boy his reason for killing him? He was teased for his red hair on the school bus.
This I do not understand at all. Can we educate this child murderer who was only a child himself? how?
I understand rage now when a person who hurts someone I love I think I could murder them at the time..
A terorist has reason and a lofty elite one at that one that comes from god for them and they believe they will be rewarded for the act of it. It is not a sense less mindless crime or an acto of passion, or insanity .This is also fine motivation for many in our own christian circles. some believe here that abortionist should be killed. the fringe of all sects are radical to make the point of their beliefs known . I will say I believe to terrorize another person or nation is effective it does terrorize the people . does compliance follow? so they hope ,but not yet and not ever from America. Amen
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ChattyKathy
I'm closing down from gsc for the night.
Sleep well y'all.
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vickles
I would have killed when I was in the way corps if they would have announced we were in a war. I would have believed them. I was ready with the full tank of gas and a backpack. Hand me a gun or a rifle? No problem if I thought my life was in danger.
I would kill if my family were in danger and I would do it to protect. I mean if they were in immediate danger and someone was coming after us. Murder? No!!!!
I would have to guess that most or all terroists must be sociopathic in the sense that they don't have a conscience of killing innocent people.
I think that is what your talking about? I get lost sometimes on this thread. Maybe its because I'm blonde?
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vickles
Most people will throw out the good if they don't understand it...its out of fear, I think. To be different is fear.
For example, I live in a small town. If your an outsider they don't want anything to do with you. Your an outcast. Its not if I'm bad or good, its that I'm different. I come from a different part of the united states. Different to them is bad. Does that make sense?
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vickles
Some people believe that if someone does something that isn't good they must be a bad person. I think a lot of people have black and white thinking on this.
They are afraid.
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vickles
Oh gosh thanks shell,
I just thought since I didn't understand, it could be about murder or psychology and I would just respond with it....lol
Thanks for clearing it for me in a way.
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ChattyKathy
Okay y'all it's in the middle of the night and I probably shouldn't ask this but is this thread that undefined? If so I'm sorry, and I'd suggest just blow it off.
Going back to sleep.
:(-->
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ChattyKathy
Shell, you're not the only one not able to understand what I was saying so don't feel bad. Obviously it was the deliverer.
Just let this thread go to the bottom of the page y'all.
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vickles
but, but kathy,
I would like to understand what your saying!! I guess my bad for assuming that I thought I knew what your saying.
All in all even if I didn't understand I would really like to.
So please don't let this frustrate you!!!!
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ChattyKathy
vickles, you and Shell were just being honest, Cindy started out the same as y'all. mj412 and johniam grabbed hold of something they saw, which I'm very grateful for, but for the most part I doubt it made sense, as was stated.
I was inspired to consider our acceptance process of another, what makes up that mechanism. I just failed miserably to convey it.
Thanks for your concern though, but just let this thread die away okay.
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ChattyKathy
Yup, I understand, but then I would right.
:D-->
Geez! Rats times two! The top of the page on a thread that needs to die! Rats...rats...
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vickles
LOL Cathy and Shellon,
I won't let it die either....
:D-->
Its because I understand completely even if I don't understand it at all. I am misunderstanding by understanding everything. Or is it that I'm understanding by misunderstanding everything?
Whatever it is I totally comprehend everything..
;)-->
This could be a mind twister, for sure.
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ChattyKathy
You brat! I thought this was going to die away...
-->
BTW, your butt must be getting cold about now, hadn't you ought to keep it covered over there girl?
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ChattyKathy
We're at 26 but rumor is we'll be up to the 40's. Off comes the coats at that when you had 0 yesterday.
:)-->
My advice to you today, keep your butt covered you brat!
;)-->
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