I hear ya Shell. I had similar problems with Aaron when he was in traditional kindergarten. That was why I moved him to the Montessori school, but that is just not an option anymore since the school closed down.
I find it very ironic that the very school my two boys learned the best at has been closed down, in part, for not meeting the state's standarized testing guidelines. Of course, that is because the state only looks at the scores from the highest grade level, which in this case was 8 11th graders who had been kicked out of the public school system. :(-->
What is best for Jacob is part of what I am trying to figure out. He needs to be chalenged and he needs to be having fun while he is learning. He went to daycamp all summer, learned lots and had a blast - no behavioral problems.
I also understand the teacher's position in that she has to teach 20 kids who are all at different places and learn in different ways. How does one do that??? I certainly have no idea.
Abigail, I don't know how much this will help, the reason being is one of my daughters just skipped a grade this year but it was from grade 5 to grade 7. I had home-schooled her prior to that, so I wasn't surprised when I was approached by the teachers and principle that she could handle the change academically. The big adjustment would be the social aspect of it, she would end up being the youngest in her class. Well I decided to wait the school year out and see how she matured over the summer. Like your Joshua, she was very bored being in grade 5 and very unhappy about it. Well she started grade 7 this fall and she is doing absolutely terrific academically and socially! I must say she loves it and I myself have absolutely no regrets skipping her a grade! It wasn't a hasty decision I made, I had part of the school year and the summer to think about it and prepare her for it. All in all it was the best decision for her life!!
My brother and I both skipped a grade. It was the best thing because we were challenged and excited about school again. Both of us went on to graduate college.
The only thing that would hold me back from doing this is if I was certain my child would not continue to fit in with those in his advanced grade. (physically ore than anything)
Is he close enough in age to them that when he's 13 he won't stand out like a "little" kid when most of the rest are maturing? Will it be a problem if everybody else gets their driver's licence for the Sr. Prom and he can't get one?
It's difficult to project these kinds of things.
As an aside, it may sound rediculous...however, do you know how "outsiders" determine if a child in an "unwesternised" country, such as the heart of Africa determine if a child is ready for school? They suggest the child is really ready if he can take one hand and run it over his head and touch (cover) the opposite ear. (right hand on left ear etc.) I have no idea why it works, but it does as a general standard. (I'm a wealth of such useless information! - and I also stink at Trivial Persuit, spelling and typing)
After a month of kindergarten, I was moved up to the first grade. I did fine. In fact, my teacher suggested that I skip grades 2 and 3. This was vetoed by my parents, and I'm glad. The social aspects won't really kick in until high school. Being about the only junior not to have a driver's license was a bit of a drag, but imagine being twelve or thirteen while all your friend are driving, dating, etc. And sports would probably be out, too. One year age difference -- not a big problem. But I wouldn't accelerate a child more than that.
Time magazine had an article on this subject not long ago. Sorry, but I can't recall exactly when, but it was within the last few months.
The thinking is changing, because it doesn't seem to be a problem in the long run (as previously thought), although there may be some short term adjustments to be made.
I would recommend looking the article up at the library.
We have open walls schools which are independent study schools here. they are private and they are expensive my kid goes to one the public school sends her on their bill. One has to be chosen to go to these specialized schools which means the public school decides if they want to invest or not in the student. Or the parent can pay for the child to go IF they meet the standards.
Independent study is not for everyone they have very few rules and test when they want no matter the age they have no "grades" a report on their progres is given twice a year. They can come and go whenever they want. My daughter is taking college courses in her field of study and doing very well. But she is not going to graduate high school this year yet!! funny right? well that is independent study for ya they focus on what they want to knowing the requirements for graduation from high school she says it is to much for "this year" and has decided to finish the colleges courses this year and go back to the high school stuff and finish next year math is alot of work for her and she does not want to study it this year.
You have to be able to flex. the kid has to pass and make efforts enough to qualify for the program. They offer no gym or art UNless that is what your major in college then you take it there. Colege courses get credit in the high school as well as as credit hours in the college. So the kid has to have a job which can be counted as the gym state requirement hours or join a gym outside of school . NO team sports or clubs or social deals they can go ot their local school proms and such but it is difficult as they are often out of the loop in the circle of high school daily livng. They graduate from their local school like everyone eles is is just how they "get there" that is differnt.
Zero tolerence for behaviour problems or drug or mental or family issues . If these areas come up you are removed from the program as it is not a strong support like a public school is demanded to be. It is independent study. The teachers all are top grade and work only part time in ONLY the field of study her math teacher teaches is the director of the community college math program and ENJOYS her position in this school.
Most of the teachers work full time in the field they chose, outside of this program and do this to help those motivated in the field ,networking begins EARLY. it is who ya know and they grab the ones who chose to excel early.
Every community has these schools some are private and the public school systems get grants to send their brightest students into these programs. The student has to be independent truly and willing to give up the social and academic structure a school can give. Not easy for a teen just trying to fit in.. The program is far from a success, and is constantly under the gun for money the teachers are paid 1/2 what the publc school system offers. Both the teachers and students are in it for independent means and comminted to the manner of learning.
Abby go to your administrator and ask about "independent study" programs. If your interested it is a way your student can determine his own path without the politics of the system in your state.
Thanks for all of the wonderful input, everyone! MJ, the program you talked about sounds wonderful, but I don't think my boys are old enough or independent enough for it yet. Though it is good to keep in mind for the future.
I spoke with the principal today and she is going to have the special ed teacher test both boys to see what grade level would be most appropriate for them (Aaron isn't having any behavioral issues this year - thank God - but I also know he could do the work they are giving him in his sleep with one arm tied behind his back).
In the meantime, after Christmas break, Jacob is going to sit in the 1st grade class two days a week for reading, which is at least a start. I would like to see the same thing happen for Aaron with math, because he was doing 3rd grade math in the 1st grade. I just hate seeing them stagnate in the areas where they excell because it will lead to boredom and disinterest.
I'll second G-St-G's comment about the later social aspects and especially sports. I do not know where your boys fit in terms of the average age for their class grade, but be aware, that if they are younger than most now, putting them a grade higher can be an issue come highschool age especially. (sports, dating, social activities)
son whines, "But mom, all my classmates can stay out until 10pm." -
"But you are only 14 and they are 16" mom says.
.....20 minute argument about whether it is age, grade, maturity or what that should prevail, often ending with the doors of the mind slamming shut.
It is hard to forecast your children's interests 10 years from now. Unfortunately, many coaches make decisions about their favorites for their future varsity teams when the kids are in 9th grade (or earlier). If a boy is small, they can be overlooked at that time, and if later adolescence kicks in, it may be too late to get into the coach's eye. Its not right, but we are not talking about the brightest of bulbs sometimes when we speak of highschool coaches. It can be a very autocratic system.
I focused my attentions on the academic for my boys, since I figured that should take precedence. I am not saying I was wrong, but I think one of mine would have been happier to have been a year back in grade. He was a "late bloomer" (runs in the family- damn his dad). He did not have the size in early highschool to show well to the baseball coaches. By his junior and senior year of course he had caught up, but never had the opportunity to play for his school. He starred junior and senior year with a rec league team that took state, and they could easily beat any team that highschool coach fielded. But for a boy, there is something about playing for your school. By college, he could pitch for the traveling club sport team, (the school does not have NCAA baseball).
Just something to think about, your interests are not always those of your children when they get to be teens.
We suggest you augment his schoolwork with independant studies, either through your district, or (better yet) as a family event. You are right in not wanting him to founder, but this does not mean he has to be raised a grade or two at this age. You will never be able to take back the decision to move them ahead , and have them repeat a grade. There are numerous opportunities available, whether in math, science, art, stage, music. Be CREATIVE!
In a year or two, look for things like Odyssey of the Mind. It is a great program, and is offered throughout the world, with competitions from elementary through highschool. There are many areas, from engineering to drama in it, and it centers on the student's creativity, not yours. If your district doesn't participate, start it yourself.
You can do alot, without needing to kill yourself with time. Kids grow up and as they do, they develop interests of their own to keep themselves occupied and learning.
Its just one parent's perspective, but something to consider.
Jacob worked really hard this morning and got all his work done so he could participate in his class Christmas party. Then at lunch time, while they were outside playing, he got in trouble for hitting a first grade girl and ended up spending the entire afternoon in the office. So, I asked him about it and his brother Aaron said this girl was slamming Jacob into a tree. Aaron went and told another teacher - who apparently was to busy to deal with the situation. So Jacob finally hauls off and hits the girl and she runs and tells Jacob's teacher, and HE gets in trouble.
I am sooooo angry, the little guy worked so hard for this party!
I have talked to the principal repeatedly in the last few days though and she promised me the first day they are back at school, she is going to work on some observations in the classroom and some testing to figure out what grade level would be most appropriate for the little guy. I am also going to let them know, from now on when he gets in trouble and gets sent to the office, I want them to call me and notify me.
I am thinking, maybe his teacher is just too fed up and frustrated with him (I like his teacher, in general and understand how this can happen) and maybe he just needs a fresh start with a different teacher.
I am also considering trying to find him another montessori school - but the downside to that is this is the first year that his older brother hasn't been in constant trouble and I don't want to move him/mess with that.
I am not a parent nor a teacher. But, I did skip a grade.
Actually, my mother was a school teacher. She interrupted her teaching career to have my brother, myself, and my twin sisters. After my sistes turned 2, and I was 5, my mother resumed teaching school.
I grew up in rural Oklahoma. My mother took my 2 sisters to another woman who cared for them during the day, as my father had to take care of the farm/ranch. I would accompany my mother to the school. I was a small country school with all 8 grades in one large classroom. I would sit in school and often do schoolroom, even though I was not enrolled in school. I attended school on and off that year.
After that school year ended, the school was closed due to rural consolidation and merged with another school. My mother got a job teaching school at that school. My mother asked the superintendant if I could go immediately into the 2nd grade, at age 6. The superintendant said that if I did well in the 2nd grade, I could start out in the 2nd grade.
I never skipped any other grades. But, I did graduate high school and enroll in college when I was 17.
So, I am one of the few people in the country who can make the dubious claim of never having passed the 1st grade.
I also started doing schoolwork at home when I was only 4. Then enabled me to be advanced for my age and allowed me to compete and win numerous academic contests, including regional spelling championships.
I agree wholeheartedly with Hap. Don't do it!!!! Find the things that interest him the most, what he's passionate about, and emphasize that with him, whether it's sports, music, math, science, cub scouts, reading, whatever.
It's hardly ever a good idea to make such decisions when a child is so young. When he gets into middle school, don't they have honors classes, advanced placement or some such thing? His sounds like a temporary problem to me. Don't put him in a situation where he feels like he's always trying to catch up, socially, physically, whatever. (Not that I think you would. :)--> ) Things have a tendency to even out as the kids get older.
I think his emotional/social development is just as important as his academic talents. :)-->
Retention and promotion are generally discouraged by the ATF. The studies on retention wouldn't apply here, but Promotion encouraged by the same teacher that is not noticing what dynamics are at play here, sounds, in a nut shell, like she's passing the kid on because she just doesnt want to "go there" academically with him to challange him...or to see what other playground issues may be brought into her classroom.
A few questions hit me.
Was the work load so much that all the children had to work hard for the same party, or was his a different load?
If the teacher knew there was a party for all the children was she leveraging participation only for some by completeion or was that for all the kids?
either way sounds crappy--
I faced this situation with both my older kid...teacher favoring little innocent girl over my son. (except it was a differnt teacher than his own) All over him "pushing to get through a door way" at the end of recess. He was penalized for "pushing" a girl in her class cause she whined to the teacher and my son whose class was at the other end of the building was just trying to get in on time...
I told him to avoid all the students (girl ones anyhow) in that class.
In your case, well, I suspect your Jacob's teachers's loyalty to your son is less than she may profess.
In our school the prinicipal will pull all parties involved and witness in one at a time...he takes it pretty seriously having put 2 of his own kids through that elementary school, his name is Jack Vermillion
all that I can fin of a Reder's Difest 2003-Jan article)
In a January 2003 article Reader's Digest called "The School That Stopped Bullies",
Jack Vermillion, a principal at a school that had implemented a program to ...
I appreciate all the input and especially getting opinions from both sides.
WW - his work load isn't bigger than the other kids. He's just bored with it. Color by numbers, drawing lines from letters to pictures - he's bored bored bored and I can't really blame him.
so he entertains himself by playing with his crayons and up until this past week - he was not disruptive while doing so. Me, I look at him and I'm thrilled that he can entertain himself for over an hour using his imagination - his older brother can't do that for more than 10 minutes!
But this teacher has turned it into a power struggle - she is going to make him do that stupid paperwork if it kills both of them. So her response is to take away the activities he enjoys, like computer lab. So now the kid is bored, frustrated, and ....ed and his behavior is getting worse not better.
So if bumping him up a grade isn't the answer, what is?
Yeah, I can work with him at home - always have anyway. But that isn't going to help him get through a seven hour school day.
Some more thoughts - When my oldest son, Aaron, finished kindergarten, he couldn't read at all. When Aaron finished first grade, he still wasn't reading all that well and definitely wasn't "pushing the paper" either. Now, here he is in second grade and doing beautifully. Reading above target, getting his work done in school, etc.
Jacob's teacher has already predicted he will finish kindergarten at a 2nd grade reading level. I know, he can do the basic addition. He can also write (albeit not particularly neatly - he is getting better though).
It seems to me, at least to some degree, kids figure these various steps out in their own time. Given the fact that Jacob is actually advanced in so many areas - what the hell is the big deal over the paper pushing??????
Shell,
"Also what about the school board? Have you brought your concerns before them, complete with your notes, information, etc. They are the principal's boss, essentially, yes? Go over everyone's head. Another point is getting the teacher AND the principal in a meeting at the same time. Recording their words, assuring them you will not take them at face value."
Going to the school board would be my last resort before moving them to another school entirely. I tend to think you can usually catch more flies with honey and so that is the approach I have used so far.
However, if things do not improve after the break, I will have to change tactics from honey to vinegar.
I will be meeting with the principal and teacher together after the break as well and I am going to very strongly emphasize that I DO NOT want Jacob punished for not finishing the paper work. If the teacher wants to send it home with him, we can work on it here at home, at his pace. I've already told her that anyway and she has sent some home - though again it amounts to drawing these stupid lines and coloring pictures and I just refuse to make an issue of it. Why not have him practice his writing or addition? Why not have him practice reading or work on reading new words? At least that would actually be teaching him something. I know from experience, he will usually do those tasks and takes pride in them.
And yes, I am considering trying to switch him to a different kindergarten class, if necessary.
That would be the option just prior to going to the school board. Last year, his pre-school teacher quit midstream and it was a rough adjustment for him, getting used to a new teacher.
The teacher he has this year - he got along great with her up until about a month ago, and so I'm not in a hurry to change teachers unless it is necessary. On the other hand, she is due to have a baby come March so either way he will be having a new teacher at some point before the school year is out.
Financially, I'm not sure I could pull him out of kindergarten altogether and even if I could, I don't want to. I'd put him in a new school first. I'm concerned pulling him out altogether might leave him with the message that it is ok to quit and I have worked very hard to teach these little guys you never give up. :)-->
Your turn to pass out! Sushi says its ok with him, we just need to find a bigger place.
What? You expected a MAN to object to living with two beautiful women???? LOL
And yes, I've been thinking the same thing. When I was in kindergarten we went for half a day and spent most of our time playing. What's up with all this work anyway? I remember someone asking me how much homework Jacob was getting. Homework in kindergarten? Yup, they have it.
In the end, it all comes down to what is best for your boys, Abi.
After reading and considering all the cons listed above, I still think it's better to advance him. He will always be annoyed with pushing paper...that is inevitable. Some of it is for good reason, though. I have found that some of this work is saved and used to measure a child's kprogress....and also may be used to document that the scool is doing what it has to do...no child left behind kinda thing.
Jacob cannot get the impression at this early age that school is a boring torture chamber! Try to preserve his natural hunger to know...and keeping him in an environment where he's effectively punnished for knowing the work is wrong.
Mothers instinctually know what is best for their children, so you've explored all the viable possibilities, do what you believe to be best for Jacob and both of you will be fine.
Things do sort themselves out over time, so who knows what the situation will be when Jacob is old enough for sports...maybe he'd rather do school newspaper instead...ya never know.
As for Aaron! He must be aware that he's not as good in school as Jacob - at least reading-wise. What can you do to augment his self esteem? I know you're not ignorant in this, I'm just putting it out there thoughtwise.
You also mentioned the teacher was going to do testing...did I read right?
Well, I would insist on an Evaluation Specialist to administer a wider battery. Reason being that he may need to be in an "enriched" class, a pull-out or some such thing. The law guarentees this if his tests proove the need.
IEP's go both ways....IDEA still provides this right for a child that is needing advanced work too.
"As for Aaron! He must be aware that he's not as good in school as Jacob - at least reading-wise. What can you do to augment his self esteem? I know you're not ignorant in this, I'm just putting it out there thoughtwise."
No, no need to worry about Aarons ego just yet. That boy thinks he is an absolute genius and no one is smarter than him - HA! He does well enough in reading as is way way ahead of the game in math and knows that as well. Though I am also checking into some sort of "enriched" program for him in math as well.
"IEP's go both ways....IDEA still provides this right for a child that is needing advanced work too."
WW - I had no idea that IEP's went both ways - I thought they were only for LD, EI, and OHI. I will definitely check into this and make sure I put it in writing. :)-->
who the heck invented these grade levels anyway? wasn't it back in the 50s when we needed a bunch of robots for manufacturing jobs?
as someone who has taught multi-age classes, and is currently teaching 5th grade (which at the school for the homeless amounts to teaching a K thru 6 multiage class)...because some of the kids don't even speak english, i am totally in favor of multiage classes.
every child is created diferent ...with different talents and abilities,etc. and the whole sysytem needs an overhaul, imho
personally, with the system we have to work within, i wouldn't let my kids skip a grade for social and emotional reasons.. they needed to be with their peers.
heck, if your son has an IEP.... make those teachers do the accomodations and modifications. it's the law!
we don't need a bunch of robots for kids.. we need those creative, individualistic, inventive kids that come up with new ideas.
and hap... ain't that the truth about the high school coaches not being the brightest of bulbs.... LOL... spoken from experience.. smile
this teacher is gone soon on maternity leave? let it go then.... one year my kid's beloved (i mean, i liked her) teacher left to have a baby and the old bitty (sorry but she was) that came in turned out to be just what he needed
--
i say, relax.... at this point.... and i'm only saying this because i care
did i already tell you i almost had a nervous breakdown when my son was in 1st ? (he did kindergarten in a private school and started 1st with the public school system)
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excathedra
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Abigail
I hear ya Shell. I had similar problems with Aaron when he was in traditional kindergarten. That was why I moved him to the Montessori school, but that is just not an option anymore since the school closed down.
I find it very ironic that the very school my two boys learned the best at has been closed down, in part, for not meeting the state's standarized testing guidelines. Of course, that is because the state only looks at the scores from the highest grade level, which in this case was 8 11th graders who had been kicked out of the public school system.
:(-->
What is best for Jacob is part of what I am trying to figure out. He needs to be chalenged and he needs to be having fun while he is learning. He went to daycamp all summer, learned lots and had a blast - no behavioral problems.
I also understand the teacher's position in that she has to teach 20 kids who are all at different places and learn in different ways. How does one do that??? I certainly have no idea.
Excathedra,
Great link!!!! Thank you.
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Cowgirl
Abigail, I don't know how much this will help, the reason being is one of my daughters just skipped a grade this year but it was from grade 5 to grade 7. I had home-schooled her prior to that, so I wasn't surprised when I was approached by the teachers and principle that she could handle the change academically. The big adjustment would be the social aspect of it, she would end up being the youngest in her class. Well I decided to wait the school year out and see how she matured over the summer. Like your Joshua, she was very bored being in grade 5 and very unhappy about it. Well she started grade 7 this fall and she is doing absolutely terrific academically and socially! I must say she loves it and I myself have absolutely no regrets skipping her a grade! It wasn't a hasty decision I made, I had part of the school year and the summer to think about it and prepare her for it. All in all it was the best decision for her life!!
Cowgirl
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Rejoice
My brother and I both skipped a grade. It was the best thing because we were challenged and excited about school again. Both of us went on to graduate college.
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krys
The only thing that would hold me back from doing this is if I was certain my child would not continue to fit in with those in his advanced grade. (physically ore than anything)
Is he close enough in age to them that when he's 13 he won't stand out like a "little" kid when most of the rest are maturing? Will it be a problem if everybody else gets their driver's licence for the Sr. Prom and he can't get one?
It's difficult to project these kinds of things.
As an aside, it may sound rediculous...however, do you know how "outsiders" determine if a child in an "unwesternised" country, such as the heart of Africa determine if a child is ready for school? They suggest the child is really ready if he can take one hand and run it over his head and touch (cover) the opposite ear. (right hand on left ear etc.) I have no idea why it works, but it does as a general standard. (I'm a wealth of such useless information! - and I also stink at Trivial Persuit, spelling and typing)
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GeorgeStGeorge
After a month of kindergarten, I was moved up to the first grade. I did fine. In fact, my teacher suggested that I skip grades 2 and 3. This was vetoed by my parents, and I'm glad. The social aspects won't really kick in until high school. Being about the only junior not to have a driver's license was a bit of a drag, but imagine being twelve or thirteen while all your friend are driving, dating, etc. And sports would probably be out, too. One year age difference -- not a big problem. But I wouldn't accelerate a child more than that.
George
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nonameplease
Time magazine had an article on this subject not long ago. Sorry, but I can't recall exactly when, but it was within the last few months.
The thinking is changing, because it doesn't seem to be a problem in the long run (as previously thought), although there may be some short term adjustments to be made.
I would recommend looking the article up at the library.
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mj412
We have open walls schools which are independent study schools here. they are private and they are expensive my kid goes to one the public school sends her on their bill. One has to be chosen to go to these specialized schools which means the public school decides if they want to invest or not in the student. Or the parent can pay for the child to go IF they meet the standards.
Independent study is not for everyone they have very few rules and test when they want no matter the age they have no "grades" a report on their progres is given twice a year. They can come and go whenever they want. My daughter is taking college courses in her field of study and doing very well. But she is not going to graduate high school this year yet!! funny right? well that is independent study for ya they focus on what they want to knowing the requirements for graduation from high school she says it is to much for "this year" and has decided to finish the colleges courses this year and go back to the high school stuff and finish next year math is alot of work for her and she does not want to study it this year.
You have to be able to flex. the kid has to pass and make efforts enough to qualify for the program. They offer no gym or art UNless that is what your major in college then you take it there. Colege courses get credit in the high school as well as as credit hours in the college. So the kid has to have a job which can be counted as the gym state requirement hours or join a gym outside of school . NO team sports or clubs or social deals they can go ot their local school proms and such but it is difficult as they are often out of the loop in the circle of high school daily livng. They graduate from their local school like everyone eles is is just how they "get there" that is differnt.
Zero tolerence for behaviour problems or drug or mental or family issues . If these areas come up you are removed from the program as it is not a strong support like a public school is demanded to be. It is independent study. The teachers all are top grade and work only part time in ONLY the field of study her math teacher teaches is the director of the community college math program and ENJOYS her position in this school.
Most of the teachers work full time in the field they chose, outside of this program and do this to help those motivated in the field ,networking begins EARLY. it is who ya know and they grab the ones who chose to excel early.
Every community has these schools some are private and the public school systems get grants to send their brightest students into these programs. The student has to be independent truly and willing to give up the social and academic structure a school can give. Not easy for a teen just trying to fit in.. The program is far from a success, and is constantly under the gun for money the teachers are paid 1/2 what the publc school system offers. Both the teachers and students are in it for independent means and comminted to the manner of learning.
Abby go to your administrator and ask about "independent study" programs. If your interested it is a way your student can determine his own path without the politics of the system in your state.
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Abigail
Thanks for all of the wonderful input, everyone! MJ, the program you talked about sounds wonderful, but I don't think my boys are old enough or independent enough for it yet. Though it is good to keep in mind for the future.
I spoke with the principal today and she is going to have the special ed teacher test both boys to see what grade level would be most appropriate for them (Aaron isn't having any behavioral issues this year - thank God - but I also know he could do the work they are giving him in his sleep with one arm tied behind his back).
In the meantime, after Christmas break, Jacob is going to sit in the 1st grade class two days a week for reading, which is at least a start. I would like to see the same thing happen for Aaron with math, because he was doing 3rd grade math in the 1st grade. I just hate seeing them stagnate in the areas where they excell because it will lead to boredom and disinterest.
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HAPe4me
I'll second G-St-G's comment about the later social aspects and especially sports. I do not know where your boys fit in terms of the average age for their class grade, but be aware, that if they are younger than most now, putting them a grade higher can be an issue come highschool age especially. (sports, dating, social activities)
son whines, "But mom, all my classmates can stay out until 10pm." -
"But you are only 14 and they are 16" mom says.
.....20 minute argument about whether it is age, grade, maturity or what that should prevail, often ending with the doors of the mind slamming shut.
It is hard to forecast your children's interests 10 years from now. Unfortunately, many coaches make decisions about their favorites for their future varsity teams when the kids are in 9th grade (or earlier). If a boy is small, they can be overlooked at that time, and if later adolescence kicks in, it may be too late to get into the coach's eye. Its not right, but we are not talking about the brightest of bulbs sometimes when we speak of highschool coaches. It can be a very autocratic system.
I focused my attentions on the academic for my boys, since I figured that should take precedence. I am not saying I was wrong, but I think one of mine would have been happier to have been a year back in grade. He was a "late bloomer" (runs in the family- damn his dad). He did not have the size in early highschool to show well to the baseball coaches. By his junior and senior year of course he had caught up, but never had the opportunity to play for his school. He starred junior and senior year with a rec league team that took state, and they could easily beat any team that highschool coach fielded. But for a boy, there is something about playing for your school. By college, he could pitch for the traveling club sport team, (the school does not have NCAA baseball).
Just something to think about, your interests are not always those of your children when they get to be teens.
We suggest you augment his schoolwork with independant studies, either through your district, or (better yet) as a family event. You are right in not wanting him to founder, but this does not mean he has to be raised a grade or two at this age. You will never be able to take back the decision to move them ahead , and have them repeat a grade. There are numerous opportunities available, whether in math, science, art, stage, music. Be CREATIVE!
In a year or two, look for things like Odyssey of the Mind. It is a great program, and is offered throughout the world, with competitions from elementary through highschool. There are many areas, from engineering to drama in it, and it centers on the student's creativity, not yours. If your district doesn't participate, start it yourself.
You can do alot, without needing to kill yourself with time. Kids grow up and as they do, they develop interests of their own to keep themselves occupied and learning.
Its just one parent's perspective, but something to consider.
~HAP
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Abigail
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Jacob worked really hard this morning and got all his work done so he could participate in his class Christmas party. Then at lunch time, while they were outside playing, he got in trouble for hitting a first grade girl and ended up spending the entire afternoon in the office. So, I asked him about it and his brother Aaron said this girl was slamming Jacob into a tree. Aaron went and told another teacher - who apparently was to busy to deal with the situation. So Jacob finally hauls off and hits the girl and she runs and tells Jacob's teacher, and HE gets in trouble.
I am sooooo angry, the little guy worked so hard for this party!
I have talked to the principal repeatedly in the last few days though and she promised me the first day they are back at school, she is going to work on some observations in the classroom and some testing to figure out what grade level would be most appropriate for the little guy. I am also going to let them know, from now on when he gets in trouble and gets sent to the office, I want them to call me and notify me.
I am thinking, maybe his teacher is just too fed up and frustrated with him (I like his teacher, in general and understand how this can happen) and maybe he just needs a fresh start with a different teacher.
I am also considering trying to find him another montessori school - but the downside to that is this is the first year that his older brother hasn't been in constant trouble and I don't want to move him/mess with that.
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Biblefan Dave
I am not a parent nor a teacher. But, I did skip a grade.
Actually, my mother was a school teacher. She interrupted her teaching career to have my brother, myself, and my twin sisters. After my sistes turned 2, and I was 5, my mother resumed teaching school.
I grew up in rural Oklahoma. My mother took my 2 sisters to another woman who cared for them during the day, as my father had to take care of the farm/ranch. I would accompany my mother to the school. I was a small country school with all 8 grades in one large classroom. I would sit in school and often do schoolroom, even though I was not enrolled in school. I attended school on and off that year.
After that school year ended, the school was closed due to rural consolidation and merged with another school. My mother got a job teaching school at that school. My mother asked the superintendant if I could go immediately into the 2nd grade, at age 6. The superintendant said that if I did well in the 2nd grade, I could start out in the 2nd grade.
I never skipped any other grades. But, I did graduate high school and enroll in college when I was 17.
So, I am one of the few people in the country who can make the dubious claim of never having passed the 1st grade.
I also started doing schoolwork at home when I was only 4. Then enabled me to be advanced for my age and allowed me to compete and win numerous academic contests, including regional spelling championships.
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ex10
Abi,
I agree wholeheartedly with Hap. Don't do it!!!! Find the things that interest him the most, what he's passionate about, and emphasize that with him, whether it's sports, music, math, science, cub scouts, reading, whatever.
It's hardly ever a good idea to make such decisions when a child is so young. When he gets into middle school, don't they have honors classes, advanced placement or some such thing? His sounds like a temporary problem to me. Don't put him in a situation where he feels like he's always trying to catch up, socially, physically, whatever. (Not that I think you would.
:)--> ) Things have a tendency to even out as the kids get older.
I think his emotional/social development is just as important as his academic talents.
:)-->
Well, you asked.
:D-->
And yeah, I speak from experience.
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DaddyHoundog
Abbi,
Retention and promotion are generally discouraged by the ATF. The studies on retention wouldn't apply here, but Promotion encouraged by the same teacher that is not noticing what dynamics are at play here, sounds, in a nut shell, like she's passing the kid on because she just doesnt want to "go there" academically with him to challange him...or to see what other playground issues may be brought into her classroom.
A few questions hit me.
Was the work load so much that all the children had to work hard for the same party, or was his a different load?
If the teacher knew there was a party for all the children was she leveraging participation only for some by completeion or was that for all the kids?
either way sounds crappy--
I faced this situation with both my older kid...teacher favoring little innocent girl over my son. (except it was a differnt teacher than his own) All over him "pushing to get through a door way" at the end of recess. He was penalized for "pushing" a girl in her class cause she whined to the teacher and my son whose class was at the other end of the building was just trying to get in on time...
I told him to avoid all the students (girl ones anyhow) in that class.
In your case, well, I suspect your Jacob's teachers's loyalty to your son is less than she may profess.
In our school the prinicipal will pull all parties involved and witness in one at a time...he takes it pretty seriously having put 2 of his own kids through that elementary school, his name is Jack Vermillion
all that I can fin of a Reder's Difest 2003-Jan article)
In a January 2003 article Reader's Digest called "The School That Stopped Bullies",
Jack Vermillion, a principal at a school that had implemented a program to ...
www.tps.k12.mi.us/staff/ lcompeau/School%20Improvement.htm - 23k - Supplemental
Okay- I stray sorry, but above were my thoughts...
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Abigail
I appreciate all the input and especially getting opinions from both sides.
WW - his work load isn't bigger than the other kids. He's just bored with it. Color by numbers, drawing lines from letters to pictures - he's bored bored bored and I can't really blame him.
so he entertains himself by playing with his crayons and up until this past week - he was not disruptive while doing so. Me, I look at him and I'm thrilled that he can entertain himself for over an hour using his imagination - his older brother can't do that for more than 10 minutes!
But this teacher has turned it into a power struggle - she is going to make him do that stupid paperwork if it kills both of them. So her response is to take away the activities he enjoys, like computer lab. So now the kid is bored, frustrated, and ....ed and his behavior is getting worse not better.
So if bumping him up a grade isn't the answer, what is?
Yeah, I can work with him at home - always have anyway. But that isn't going to help him get through a seven hour school day.
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Abigail
Some more thoughts - When my oldest son, Aaron, finished kindergarten, he couldn't read at all. When Aaron finished first grade, he still wasn't reading all that well and definitely wasn't "pushing the paper" either. Now, here he is in second grade and doing beautifully. Reading above target, getting his work done in school, etc.
Jacob's teacher has already predicted he will finish kindergarten at a 2nd grade reading level. I know, he can do the basic addition. He can also write (albeit not particularly neatly - he is getting better though).
It seems to me, at least to some degree, kids figure these various steps out in their own time. Given the fact that Jacob is actually advanced in so many areas - what the hell is the big deal over the paper pushing??????
Shell,
"Also what about the school board? Have you brought your concerns before them, complete with your notes, information, etc. They are the principal's boss, essentially, yes? Go over everyone's head. Another point is getting the teacher AND the principal in a meeting at the same time. Recording their words, assuring them you will not take them at face value."
Going to the school board would be my last resort before moving them to another school entirely. I tend to think you can usually catch more flies with honey and so that is the approach I have used so far.
However, if things do not improve after the break, I will have to change tactics from honey to vinegar.
I will be meeting with the principal and teacher together after the break as well and I am going to very strongly emphasize that I DO NOT want Jacob punished for not finishing the paper work. If the teacher wants to send it home with him, we can work on it here at home, at his pace. I've already told her that anyway and she has sent some home - though again it amounts to drawing these stupid lines and coloring pictures and I just refuse to make an issue of it. Why not have him practice his writing or addition? Why not have him practice reading or work on reading new words? At least that would actually be teaching him something. I know from experience, he will usually do those tasks and takes pride in them.
And yes, I am considering trying to switch him to a different kindergarten class, if necessary.
That would be the option just prior to going to the school board. Last year, his pre-school teacher quit midstream and it was a rough adjustment for him, getting used to a new teacher.
The teacher he has this year - he got along great with her up until about a month ago, and so I'm not in a hurry to change teachers unless it is necessary. On the other hand, she is due to have a baby come March so either way he will be having a new teacher at some point before the school year is out.
Financially, I'm not sure I could pull him out of kindergarten altogether and even if I could, I don't want to. I'd put him in a new school first. I'm concerned pulling him out altogether might leave him with the message that it is ok to quit and I have worked very hard to teach these little guys you never give up.
:)-->
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Abigail
Your turn to pass out! Sushi says its ok with him, we just need to find a bigger place.
What? You expected a MAN to object to living with two beautiful women???? LOL
And yes, I've been thinking the same thing. When I was in kindergarten we went for half a day and spent most of our time playing. What's up with all this work anyway? I remember someone asking me how much homework Jacob was getting. Homework in kindergarten? Yup, they have it.
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Rejoice
Homework in kindergarten??????? What is the big rush to take on the pressure of life, and better yet, what is the damned point???
My biggest gripe with education is that they push or pressure our kids to learn, rather than inspire them to be excited and engaged in learning.
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krys
In the end, it all comes down to what is best for your boys, Abi.
After reading and considering all the cons listed above, I still think it's better to advance him. He will always be annoyed with pushing paper...that is inevitable. Some of it is for good reason, though. I have found that some of this work is saved and used to measure a child's kprogress....and also may be used to document that the scool is doing what it has to do...no child left behind kinda thing.
Jacob cannot get the impression at this early age that school is a boring torture chamber! Try to preserve his natural hunger to know...and keeping him in an environment where he's effectively punnished for knowing the work is wrong.
Mothers instinctually know what is best for their children, so you've explored all the viable possibilities, do what you believe to be best for Jacob and both of you will be fine.
Things do sort themselves out over time, so who knows what the situation will be when Jacob is old enough for sports...maybe he'd rather do school newspaper instead...ya never know.
As for Aaron! He must be aware that he's not as good in school as Jacob - at least reading-wise. What can you do to augment his self esteem? I know you're not ignorant in this, I'm just putting it out there thoughtwise.
You're doing a fine job Abi! I commend you.
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DaddyHoundog
You also mentioned the teacher was going to do testing...did I read right?
Well, I would insist on an Evaluation Specialist to administer a wider battery. Reason being that he may need to be in an "enriched" class, a pull-out or some such thing. The law guarentees this if his tests proove the need.
IEP's go both ways....IDEA still provides this right for a child that is needing advanced work too.
just a thought.
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Abigail
"As for Aaron! He must be aware that he's not as good in school as Jacob - at least reading-wise. What can you do to augment his self esteem? I know you're not ignorant in this, I'm just putting it out there thoughtwise."
No, no need to worry about Aarons ego just yet. That boy thinks he is an absolute genius and no one is smarter than him - HA! He does well enough in reading as is way way ahead of the game in math and knows that as well. Though I am also checking into some sort of "enriched" program for him in math as well.
"IEP's go both ways....IDEA still provides this right for a child that is needing advanced work too."
WW - I had no idea that IEP's went both ways - I thought they were only for LD, EI, and OHI. I will definitely check into this and make sure I put it in writing.
:)-->
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jen-o
hi abi,
who the heck invented these grade levels anyway? wasn't it back in the 50s when we needed a bunch of robots for manufacturing jobs?
as someone who has taught multi-age classes, and is currently teaching 5th grade (which at the school for the homeless amounts to teaching a K thru 6 multiage class)...because some of the kids don't even speak english, i am totally in favor of multiage classes.
every child is created diferent ...with different talents and abilities,etc. and the whole sysytem needs an overhaul, imho
personally, with the system we have to work within, i wouldn't let my kids skip a grade for social and emotional reasons.. they needed to be with their peers.
heck, if your son has an IEP.... make those teachers do the accomodations and modifications. it's the law!
we don't need a bunch of robots for kids.. we need those creative, individualistic, inventive kids that come up with new ideas.
and hap... ain't that the truth about the high school coaches not being the brightest of bulbs.... LOL... spoken from experience.. smile
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excathedra
this teacher is gone soon on maternity leave? let it go then.... one year my kid's beloved (i mean, i liked her) teacher left to have a baby and the old bitty (sorry but she was) that came in turned out to be just what he needed
--
i say, relax.... at this point.... and i'm only saying this because i care
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excathedra
did i already tell you i almost had a nervous breakdown when my son was in 1st ? (he did kindergarten in a private school and started 1st with the public school system)
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