We sent our kids in the k-5 year to a Baptist elementary school in Tampa, Fl. where we lived at the time. They had the greatest people for teachers. I mean, at 5, kids aren't looking to line up and do anything, they're kids for gawds sake. They were so patient and understanding and the way they handled our kids their first few years in school was worth every penny it cost and we were happy to support them additionally as we were able. They made a huge impression on their little minds at the time and in the process our kids learned respect and love. They still remember them and have good memories of that experience.
I STILL can't stand in line at a grocery store for more than 10 minutes without getting in to trouble!
Hi Abi, I had 2 of them both boys one was bored to death with kindergarten and the other one in his own little dreamworld.
I didn't think they would ever get thru school period and I was right they both quit in high school, but went back and got thier GED's and one just graduated from college ( graduation this Thursday) yyyyyeeeeeeeehhaaaa and the other one just got his general contrators licsence so don't worry about your wee one too soon just enjoy the heck out of him and encourage him gently in the right direction and for God's sake don't let the school pressure you to put him on meds like they did me, it did more harm then good.
He sounds like a little charmer too me like my son's were until the school psyciatrist made me put them on Ritalin, that's what screwed them up.
also they bothe graduated from college with honors.
when mine was in kindergarten (he was 4 and then turned 5 by cutoff date) whenever the teacher called me in, i acted as serious as she expected of me (i felt her out.....) and then i left and laughed and laughed
my kid.... i never pressured him at home at that time. i felt school was giving him plenty enough
Way to go Exxie, I used to do the same thing with my son's teachers too. On the other hand my oldest daughter was an over achiever and I had such fun listening to her teachers brag about her. She graduated in the top 1% of the country and who's who of American High School Students. And know is a fine P.A specializing in cardio-vascular surgery. Know I get my Stitches for free lol. Get it Psalmie?
Does he possibly have a hearing problem? Does he need glasses?
If they suggest testing him for a learning disorder, take them up on it.
My son was finally tested after I pulled off a planned staged Acadamy Award winning stunt in the Guidance office....after asking for years. He was then a freshman in high school. They found a problem....some "minor" thing where hes input and output got confused.
I don't think all the kids labelled with such and such "disorder" are really disordered. I firmy believe they have different learning styles and sometimes change from one to another.
Yes, they do make a big deal about making them all conform to the school's way. If he's a young 5, he could have more difficulty adjusting.
I wouldn't worry too much about this. I think these days teachers expect these young children to be little adults.
Of course he wants to go and play, he is just a little kid!!!!
This subject really gets me going. I get so darn mad when I hear about this stuff.
If he doesn't have any behavior problems and is well behaved, why send him to the principals office? All they have to do is redirect him, right?
In my opinion, the best way is to go to the meeting and be polite as possible and suggest that when something like this happens again that they gently redirect him.
Anyways, what are they doing that he has a lot of work in kindergarten for? I bet he isn't the only one the teacher is having problems with in that regard. If I was his age and having a lot of work to do, I would be bored also.
I remember my kindergarten years. I don't remember the name of the school, but I can write my Mom and have that name. But I do remember specific experiences, such as the Collie, the gate, the fence, the smell of the room, THE PLAY GROUND!!!
Oh yes indeedy!
quote:Today, after lunch, instead of lining up with his class to go back to his room, he hung out in the cafeteria for a few minutes, then wandered out on to the playground to play. (this is what got him sent to the principal's office for the second time).
That child was performing his natural gig and should not be reprimanded because of his imagination to play, to be curious, to laugh and have fun.
Maybe, just maybe, this child planned to stay behind a few minutes an opportunity access his playground. But that would be rather ingenious to out wit his teacher at such a young age.
I do think that teacher should be the one sent to the principal's office rather than the child for whom the teacher was responsible.
I'm a 52 year old non-disruptive, basically well-behaved person, who would rather play too! :D-->
Maybe the teacher should be the one sent to the principal's office, instead. (Aw shucks -- I see song said it first!! Snuck it in on me while I was writing this here.)
A five year old like that, can't have the "grasp' that the teacher (in this case) seems to expect. When you meet with the teacher, perhaps you can suggest (lovingly), that "honey" works better than "vinegar".
The DD folks I work with (developementally disabled), are the same in many ways -- and though they have guidelines to follow also, one has to "work with them", and give them lattitude when needed. Guidelines can be followed, while accepting the person for who they are, and working with the "quirks" that are presented in each individual case.
Maybe this teacher is doing this, and maybe not -- but I think you're right. He/she needs to lighten up, and realize who they are dealing with. If that teacher can't do that, then I would wonder about their qualifications as a competent instructor.
ExC - good question, I will ask him. In preschool he used to go to the principals office almost every nap time, because he hasn't napped since he was two. But it was never a bad thing - he would go there and color and talk and have fun in a place where he wouldn't be disturbing the kids who do nap. Hehehe, maybe he was thinking it would be the same this year.
Unfortunately, the school they went to last year was shut down for not "meeting the state requirements", among other things. Its been a tough adjustment to the new school because they really did learn a lot at the other school.
My oldest son is doing better at this school because it is more structured, but I don't think he is learning as much or particularly challanged.
kryssie, i would love to have seen that academy award winning stunt
--
abi, little boys.... sigh smile
my mom raised five of 'em. two of my sisters are special ed. teachers. my niece is a speech therapist. i get precious advice. still so many times i have to go with my instincts with regard to the child i know better than anyone (this is the advice i got from his pediatrician; he told me if anyone knows what's best, it's me)
stay calm dearest when you meet with the teacher. ask her what she thinks would help jacob with getting his "work" done and that you appreciate the notes keeping you informed, etc., and that you're sure you can work this out together
by the way, is she a new teacher ? young ? old ?
let us know what happens today
but i would tell jacob you're meeting with her because you and the teacher want him to enjoy kindergarten (the learning part) and want to figure out tips to help him
Yeah, ExC - I think you're right about the computer and TV (he only watches about 30 minutes a day most days anyway).
The teacher is probably late 20's early 30's, pregnant with her second, her first is still a toddler. Wait til her kids start school, then she'll see things differently.
I went through all of this with my oldest, except in his case he was disruptive. The irony is I knew there was something going on with him and fought like hell to get him the help he needed! My youngest, I think he is fine and they want to tell me he's not. LOL
Anyway, my oldest - he's smart too and didn't get the work done in kindergarten or first grade. But now here he is in second grade and doing just fine, no problems at all.
I think I am going to let the teacher know, as long as Jacob is not disruptive or otherwise behaving badly and as long as he is learning, I'm not going to worry about how much paper he can push. He has plently of time to learn how to push paper when he is older.
I gotta second the "No meds". My husband teaches middle and high school. He says very few kids who are diagnosed with ADHD or ADD or whatever actually have it. A lot of times it starts in kiddy garden to make them into little robots!
Beware!
Also how does he like to learn best? Music, reading, watching, listening? There are many different styles of learning and maybe the teacher hasn't figured this out yet.
You go girl! Let her know like you said!
Her primary interest should be what's best for the child, not how much paperwork he does.
At five or 10 or 15, it's hard to get boys to line up or away from the outside. Boys want to run and jump and yell. Our school system stifles their creativity and expression. Athletics are fine, but some kids aren't that good and when they fail they run to crime, drugs or other unhealthy alternatives.
Okay, first off, you're taking college courses, right? so by now you really should know the difference between "oldest" and "older". When you have 2, one is not "oldest" than the other, one is oldER, one is youngER. So you do NOT have an oldEST and a youngEST, you have an oldER and a youngER.
Second, you weren't there, so you don't know if he was being deliberately disobedient or belligerent or whatever. Sure, he may be sweet-natured at home, but children's personalities often change somewhat at school. So since you don't have all the facts, you really shouldn't take the attitude "my kid right or wrong".
Well, I'm sorry, I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
But . . .
Here's a kid who is not completing his work, and has already been to the principal's office, and gets sent again. If you are the parent and you assume, as abi seems to, that the school is somehow targeting her child, or that the school is overreacting, then you are setting yourself up for potential future problems.
Say what you will about the Michigan school system or any school system, these are people that have dealt with these situations before - whether they did it correctly or incorrectly.
If it were my kid (and I *have* been in this situation), I wouldn't assume any of the above. I would think to myself that I need to find out more, and - here's an important part - I would need to think that MY KID MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE WRONG.
As sweet-natured as Jacob may be, he may have been (dare I say it?) obstinate in his refusal to return to class. I don't know. I wasn't there. And even if I were to question Jacob, if I were his parent, I wouldn't necessarily rely 100% on his word. 5 year olds have a much different perception of the world, and will say whatever they need to say to stay out of trouble. No matter how well-behaved they are usually, or how sweet-natured they are.
And on top of all that, consider the insurance implications. If Jacob had injured himself on that playground, the school would be liable. In today's litigious society, that is NO small concern.
whether I like it or not -- schools micro-manage the heck outa' our children.
As adults we have varying degrees of this....schools get the idea---anywhere in the US or more so in Japan etc. -- that this is their responsibility to teach.
I have taught my kids, and you know the challengess I have had with the younger one...that school is a game and they have to learn the rules to play the game....thats a nutshell version..but you get the gist.
I also think if this K teacher has an EA (eduactional assistant we call them here in NM) she should send her to check on this child WAY!!! BEFORE!!! sending the child to the principle.
We have had teacher's like that that --becasue they had 2 F'ing dogs, thought they knew about teaching (training to their mind) children....
BAD MICRO MANAGEMENT!
Figure out your goals for child #2 and then slowly go from there about what you want to do to reach those goals
Steve, I really don't give a rat's behind if my grammar and or spelling are perfectly accurate in my posts here. I'm not at work, I don't have to be perfect.
2. I don't have an issue with the school sending Jacob to the principal's office for not going back to class when he should have. I have an issue with the fuss they are making over his ability to "push the paper".
3. I KNOW, because the teacher has repeatedly said so, Jacob is not disruptive, mouthy, or otherwise belligerent, he simply sits quietly and daydreams instead of doing his work.
4. I DO NOT always assume first the school is wrong and my child is right and his teachers know this. I have worked toegether very well with Aaron's teachers in the past and likewise with Jacob's.
Now, having met with the teacher this morning, there are only two subjects which Jacob is not doing his work for. One is reading, which ironically he is way ahead of his class in terms of ability. When asked about this, Jacob stated very clearly he is BORED with it. They sit for an hour and a half with little diversity or change and work on reading. It is simply too long for him.
The other area is science. I'm not as clear on his problem with this, but if I were to guess, I would say it comes down to timing. They do science right after naps and snacks. After science they go outside to play. It is my guess, if after naps and snacks they went out to play, THEN did science, Jacob would have less trouble. He is simply rested, fed, and ready to play at that point.
In either case, he knows the material, he is simply bored with sitting and doing paperwork. Which, in kindergarten, I am not overly worried about.
His teacher is going to keep a daily log of what he does and does not complete - Jacob will put stickers next to those things he completed. This is fine with me, it allows me to have a better view of what is going on and it allows Jacob to feel rewarded for what he accomplishes.
For the time being I'm going to leave it at that and not make a big deal out of what isn't getting done as long as I know he is learning the material i.e. how to read (which he can already do).
This thread reminds me a lot of reasons why we decided to home school. Our kidlet besides having a hearing problem has her own strange way of thinking.
She would have been very frustrated in public school. And schooling her at home lets her figure out stuff in her own way, and at her own rate.
Home schooling is not for every body. And I think teachers in public school have a terribly hard job. They are under paid and have to teach way too many kids at one time. Besides being people with regular people problems.
Here in Texas they have to "teach to the test" Because they are pressured to have X amount of kids pass it. It seems to put more pressure on both teacher and kids. sheesh.
Also from the research I did when deciding to home school. Boy are not ready to settle down and learn until about 8 years old. They are just naturally more active than girls. Makes me wonder how many kids are on medication, when they are just doing what comes naturally to them.
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socks
5 year olds....sent to the principals office??!!
He sounds pretty normal to me.
We sent our kids in the k-5 year to a Baptist elementary school in Tampa, Fl. where we lived at the time. They had the greatest people for teachers. I mean, at 5, kids aren't looking to line up and do anything, they're kids for gawds sake. They were so patient and understanding and the way they handled our kids their first few years in school was worth every penny it cost and we were happy to support them additionally as we were able. They made a huge impression on their little minds at the time and in the process our kids learned respect and love. They still remember them and have good memories of that experience.
I STILL can't stand in line at a grocery store for more than 10 minutes without getting in to trouble!
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wyteduv58
Hi Abi, I had 2 of them both boys one was bored to death with kindergarten and the other one in his own little dreamworld.
I didn't think they would ever get thru school period and I was right they both quit in high school, but went back and got thier GED's and one just graduated from college ( graduation this Thursday) yyyyyeeeeeeeehhaaaa and the other one just got his general contrators licsence so don't worry about your wee one too soon just enjoy the heck out of him and encourage him gently in the right direction and for God's sake don't let the school pressure you to put him on meds like they did me, it did more harm then good.
He sounds like a little charmer too me like my son's were until the school psyciatrist made me put them on Ritalin, that's what screwed them up.
also they bothe graduated from college with honors.
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Abigail
No, no meds. Wyteduv. My oldest takes meds, but he needs them and they help. I am far far far from convinced my youngest needs them.
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excathedra
never get mad at him
when mine was in kindergarten (he was 4 and then turned 5 by cutoff date) whenever the teacher called me in, i acted as serious as she expected of me (i felt her out.....) and then i left and laughed and laughed
my kid.... i never pressured him at home at that time. i felt school was giving him plenty enough
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wyteduv58
Way to go Exxie, I used to do the same thing with my son's teachers too. On the other hand my oldest daughter was an over achiever and I had such fun listening to her teachers brag about her. She graduated in the top 1% of the country and who's who of American High School Students. And know is a fine P.A specializing in cardio-vascular surgery. Know I get my Stitches for free lol. Get it Psalmie?
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krys
Does he possibly have a hearing problem? Does he need glasses?
If they suggest testing him for a learning disorder, take them up on it.
My son was finally tested after I pulled off a planned staged Acadamy Award winning stunt in the Guidance office....after asking for years. He was then a freshman in high school. They found a problem....some "minor" thing where hes input and output got confused.
I don't think all the kids labelled with such and such "disorder" are really disordered. I firmy believe they have different learning styles and sometimes change from one to another.
Yes, they do make a big deal about making them all conform to the school's way. If he's a young 5, he could have more difficulty adjusting.
Stay calm and listen to the Rev. Mother.
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vickles
Abi,
I wouldn't worry too much about this. I think these days teachers expect these young children to be little adults.
Of course he wants to go and play, he is just a little kid!!!!
This subject really gets me going. I get so darn mad when I hear about this stuff.
If he doesn't have any behavior problems and is well behaved, why send him to the principals office? All they have to do is redirect him, right?
In my opinion, the best way is to go to the meeting and be polite as possible and suggest that when something like this happens again that they gently redirect him.
Anyways, what are they doing that he has a lot of work in kindergarten for? I bet he isn't the only one the teacher is having problems with in that regard. If I was his age and having a lot of work to do, I would be bored also.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Abigail,
I remember my kindergarten years. I don't remember the name of the school, but I can write my Mom and have that name. But I do remember specific experiences, such as the Collie, the gate, the fence, the smell of the room, THE PLAY GROUND!!!
Oh yes indeedy!
That child was performing his natural gig and should not be reprimanded because of his imagination to play, to be curious, to laugh and have fun.
Maybe, just maybe, this child planned to stay behind a few minutes an opportunity access his playground. But that would be rather ingenious to out wit his teacher at such a young age.
I do think that teacher should be the one sent to the principal's office rather than the child for whom the teacher was responsible.
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dmiller
I'm a 52 year old non-disruptive, basically well-behaved person, who would rather play too!
:D-->
Maybe the teacher should be the one sent to the principal's office, instead. (Aw shucks -- I see song said it first!! Snuck it in on me while I was writing this here.)
A five year old like that, can't have the "grasp' that the teacher (in this case) seems to expect. When you meet with the teacher, perhaps you can suggest (lovingly), that "honey" works better than "vinegar".
The DD folks I work with (developementally disabled), are the same in many ways -- and though they have guidelines to follow also, one has to "work with them", and give them lattitude when needed. Guidelines can be followed, while accepting the person for who they are, and working with the "quirks" that are presented in each individual case.
Maybe this teacher is doing this, and maybe not -- but I think you're right. He/she needs to lighten up, and realize who they are dealing with. If that teacher can't do that, then I would wonder about their qualifications as a competent instructor.
But that is just my "IMO".
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excathedra
how does jacob feel about being "sent to the principal's office" ? god that used to be such a bad thing !!!! it's going to lose its effect in michigan
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Abigail
You guys are wonderful and funny.
ExC - good question, I will ask him. In preschool he used to go to the principals office almost every nap time, because he hasn't napped since he was two. But it was never a bad thing - he would go there and color and talk and have fun in a place where he wouldn't be disturbing the kids who do nap. Hehehe, maybe he was thinking it would be the same this year.
Unfortunately, the school they went to last year was shut down for not "meeting the state requirements", among other things. Its been a tough adjustment to the new school because they really did learn a lot at the other school.
My oldest son is doing better at this school because it is more structured, but I don't think he is learning as much or particularly challanged.
My youngest, well . . .
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excathedra
kryssie, i would love to have seen that academy award winning stunt
--
abi, little boys.... sigh smile
my mom raised five of 'em. two of my sisters are special ed. teachers. my niece is a speech therapist. i get precious advice. still so many times i have to go with my instincts with regard to the child i know better than anyone (this is the advice i got from his pediatrician; he told me if anyone knows what's best, it's me)
stay calm dearest when you meet with the teacher. ask her what she thinks would help jacob with getting his "work" done and that you appreciate the notes keeping you informed, etc., and that you're sure you can work this out together
by the way, is she a new teacher ? young ? old ?
let us know what happens today
but i would tell jacob you're meeting with her because you and the teacher want him to enjoy kindergarten (the learning part) and want to figure out tips to help him
.
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excathedra
.... and if she's too rough on him, you'll kick her a$$
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excathedra
ps. i'd let the kid do the computer and tv. mine had fun with those a-b-c CD's etc.
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Abigail
Yeah, ExC - I think you're right about the computer and TV (he only watches about 30 minutes a day most days anyway).
The teacher is probably late 20's early 30's, pregnant with her second, her first is still a toddler. Wait til her kids start school, then she'll see things differently.
I went through all of this with my oldest, except in his case he was disruptive. The irony is I knew there was something going on with him and fought like hell to get him the help he needed! My youngest, I think he is fine and they want to tell me he's not. LOL
Anyway, my oldest - he's smart too and didn't get the work done in kindergarten or first grade. But now here he is in second grade and doing just fine, no problems at all.
I think I am going to let the teacher know, as long as Jacob is not disruptive or otherwise behaving badly and as long as he is learning, I'm not going to worry about how much paper he can push. He has plently of time to learn how to push paper when he is older.
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Watered Garden
I gotta second the "No meds". My husband teaches middle and high school. He says very few kids who are diagnosed with ADHD or ADD or whatever actually have it. A lot of times it starts in kiddy garden to make them into little robots!
Beware!
Also how does he like to learn best? Music, reading, watching, listening? There are many different styles of learning and maybe the teacher hasn't figured this out yet.
You go girl! Let her know like you said!
Her primary interest should be what's best for the child, not how much paperwork he does.
WG
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def59
At five or 10 or 15, it's hard to get boys to line up or away from the outside. Boys want to run and jump and yell. Our school system stifles their creativity and expression. Athletics are fine, but some kids aren't that good and when they fail they run to crime, drugs or other unhealthy alternatives.
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Steve!
Okay, first off, you're taking college courses, right? so by now you really should know the difference between "oldest" and "older". When you have 2, one is not "oldest" than the other, one is oldER, one is youngER. So you do NOT have an oldEST and a youngEST, you have an oldER and a youngER.
Second, you weren't there, so you don't know if he was being deliberately disobedient or belligerent or whatever. Sure, he may be sweet-natured at home, but children's personalities often change somewhat at school. So since you don't have all the facts, you really shouldn't take the attitude "my kid right or wrong".
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excathedra
you should know how your post sounds !!!!!!!
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Steve!
Well, I'm sorry, I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
But . . .
Here's a kid who is not completing his work, and has already been to the principal's office, and gets sent again. If you are the parent and you assume, as abi seems to, that the school is somehow targeting her child, or that the school is overreacting, then you are setting yourself up for potential future problems.
Say what you will about the Michigan school system or any school system, these are people that have dealt with these situations before - whether they did it correctly or incorrectly.
If it were my kid (and I *have* been in this situation), I wouldn't assume any of the above. I would think to myself that I need to find out more, and - here's an important part - I would need to think that MY KID MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN THE WRONG.
As sweet-natured as Jacob may be, he may have been (dare I say it?) obstinate in his refusal to return to class. I don't know. I wasn't there. And even if I were to question Jacob, if I were his parent, I wouldn't necessarily rely 100% on his word. 5 year olds have a much different perception of the world, and will say whatever they need to say to stay out of trouble. No matter how well-behaved they are usually, or how sweet-natured they are.
And on top of all that, consider the insurance implications. If Jacob had injured himself on that playground, the school would be liable. In today's litigious society, that is NO small concern.
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DaddyHoundog
whether I like it or not -- schools micro-manage the heck outa' our children.
As adults we have varying degrees of this....schools get the idea---anywhere in the US or more so in Japan etc. -- that this is their responsibility to teach.
I have taught my kids, and you know the challengess I have had with the younger one...that school is a game and they have to learn the rules to play the game....thats a nutshell version..but you get the gist.
I also think if this K teacher has an EA (eduactional assistant we call them here in NM) she should send her to check on this child WAY!!! BEFORE!!! sending the child to the principle.
We have had teacher's like that that --becasue they had 2 F'ing dogs, thought they knew about teaching (training to their mind) children....
BAD MICRO MANAGEMENT!
Figure out your goals for child #2 and then slowly go from there about what you want to do to reach those goals
email me
:)-->
PS new addy:
LiannePierce@comast.net
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Abigail
Steve, I really don't give a rat's behind if my grammar and or spelling are perfectly accurate in my posts here. I'm not at work, I don't have to be perfect.
2. I don't have an issue with the school sending Jacob to the principal's office for not going back to class when he should have. I have an issue with the fuss they are making over his ability to "push the paper".
3. I KNOW, because the teacher has repeatedly said so, Jacob is not disruptive, mouthy, or otherwise belligerent, he simply sits quietly and daydreams instead of doing his work.
4. I DO NOT always assume first the school is wrong and my child is right and his teachers know this. I have worked toegether very well with Aaron's teachers in the past and likewise with Jacob's.
Now, having met with the teacher this morning, there are only two subjects which Jacob is not doing his work for. One is reading, which ironically he is way ahead of his class in terms of ability. When asked about this, Jacob stated very clearly he is BORED with it. They sit for an hour and a half with little diversity or change and work on reading. It is simply too long for him.
The other area is science. I'm not as clear on his problem with this, but if I were to guess, I would say it comes down to timing. They do science right after naps and snacks. After science they go outside to play. It is my guess, if after naps and snacks they went out to play, THEN did science, Jacob would have less trouble. He is simply rested, fed, and ready to play at that point.
In either case, he knows the material, he is simply bored with sitting and doing paperwork. Which, in kindergarten, I am not overly worried about.
His teacher is going to keep a daily log of what he does and does not complete - Jacob will put stickers next to those things he completed. This is fine with me, it allows me to have a better view of what is going on and it allows Jacob to feel rewarded for what he accomplishes.
For the time being I'm going to leave it at that and not make a big deal out of what isn't getting done as long as I know he is learning the material i.e. how to read (which he can already do).
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tcat5
This thread reminds me a lot of reasons why we decided to home school. Our kidlet besides having a hearing problem has her own strange way of thinking.
She would have been very frustrated in public school. And schooling her at home lets her figure out stuff in her own way, and at her own rate.
Home schooling is not for every body. And I think teachers in public school have a terribly hard job. They are under paid and have to teach way too many kids at one time. Besides being people with regular people problems.
Here in Texas they have to "teach to the test" Because they are pressured to have X amount of kids pass it. It seems to put more pressure on both teacher and kids. sheesh.
Also from the research I did when deciding to home school. Boy are not ready to settle down and learn until about 8 years old. They are just naturally more active than girls. Makes me wonder how many kids are on medication, when they are just doing what comes naturally to them.
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excathedra
yup !!!!!
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