Hello Chuck. As long as the temperarure continues to drop below freezing at night and goes above freezing during the day, the sap will run. So Lord knows how much time is left to the season. Looks like it's good thru the weekend and probably into next week anyway. The problem is that once the trees start to bud, the sap starts tasting bitter and so about the only folks that buy the buddy syrup are the chewing tobacco folks, and, of course, they don't pay $40 a gallon for it!
I bought my taps from Richard's Maple Syrup on Rt. 6 going into Chardon. They cost 40 cents each. So I tapped four trees, (drill a hole about 3 inches into the tree- about to the middle joint of the finger- at a slight angle upward and wedge the plastic tap in with a hammer until it's good and snug- but not tight enough to crack the tree), with a total of 11 taps (trees over 79 inch circumfrence can take 3 taps and those between 70 and 79 can take two taps) and they are keeping my two water distiller's busy around the clock. Hopefully you have a maple syrup store closer than Chardon, on your side of town.
Anyway, it takes boiling about 30-40 gallons of sap to make one gallon of syrup. By day's end I should have my second gallon of "The Lord's Best Maple Product" done. I'm taking orders for it now should you not get around to doing it yourself. (but I won't deliver it for the $40 price- and you'll have to hurry since I'm amazed that I'm even getting two gallons- let alone maybe four or five ultimately).
Sure hope you bought the water distiller last week when they were on sale. It sure makes "mass production" (on a very small scale) easy. It's really no different than a pan on a hot plate except that no steam gets into the room to ruin everything, and it turns off automatically when all the water is boiled out and only syrup remains. And if you're not around five hours after having pushed the button to start the process it just sits and smiles while it waits for a refil- and being relieved of what little syrup there is- to be emptied into a safe deposit box or something, like it was gold. (Since I seldom sleep more than five hours at a crack, it works out perfect for me.) Try that with a pan on a hot plate and about all you have left is some carbon on the bottom of the pan- if there is any pan left! And, of course, there is something to "a watched pot never boils"- at least it seems that way when one has to watch thirty gallons of water evaporate just to get one gallon of syrup. And you thought refinishing furnature was tough!
Actually, I am available, for a fee, as a Maple Syrup Consultant. Not that I'm an expert, you understand. It's just that I'd like to show that gaining knowledge is profitable (something that is a new concept to me, old wayfer that I am!) So I made all my mistakes a couple of years ago learning how to tap maple trees, how many taps per tree, how to boil the sap, and how to figure out when it's done. I even spent $15 on a hydrometer (which was probably $14 more than it was worth- except that everything is that way these days!) So, what with the extra corny kegs I have to catch the sap, (one of which I'd offered to give to Krysilis months ago- except that her email was taken off the hook and my email to her was returned to sender), plastic tubing to run from the tap to the keg, quick disconnects to easily change the corny kegs, water distiller to pour it into, etc., even an oxygen meter to measure the oxygen concentration of the sap (you heard it here first that maple sap has 30 ppm oxygen- maybe nobody in the world knows that fact outside of those reading this thread- and no doubt most think it's worthless information- just like they think the Bible is worthless information- but that's there problem, not mine).
That reminds me of another story, told to me back in the sixties by my boss at the time, who was the expert in boiler plants between New York and Chicago. Seems he was called to look at a boiler plant that had mysteriously shut down and no one knew why. So he took a little hammer with him, drove out to the plant, pinged on this pipe and that, climbed up on a catwalk and did the same to yet more pipes, and finally gave one a big wack and then told the folks to start up the boilers again. Sure enough, everything ran like a champ. So they asked him how much they owed him and he said $1,000. They objected, pointing out that all he'd done is hit a pipe with a hammer. He replied, "Well, hitting the pipe with the hammer only cost you $5, knowing where to hit the pipe cost you $995."
As for the chickens, I threaten them regularly with chicken dinner if they don't behave! They don't listen, and I doubt they even know that I'm talking about chicken dinner for me, not them! Reminds me of a guy at a card game years ago that said, "If you don't know who the target is at the table, you're the target!" I think he was trying to tell me something- like I try to tell the chickens about chicken dinner. Anyway, no flap jacks for them. They might get a little sap, just to see if they like it. But then they'll complain that they don't get sap every day- for free- so I dare not make a habit of doing so. They won't understand that the sap does stop runing sooner or later.
By the way, did you ever start making oxygenated water for yourself and family? That actually takes less effort to set up than it does to make maple syrup- and the cost to do so isn't much more. I do think I'll go down to Sears today and see if I can get some filters for my Kenmores. Since Oldiesman mentioned it, I've been thinking that the carbon filter may take out the trace organics in the distillate from the maple sap. I sure have hated pouring all that distilled water down the drain just because of a trace of bitter taste!
You said you need to save for a retirement fund...
"Dandy Randi" as you called him at www.randi.org offers a confirmed $1,000,000 prize for ANYONE who can demonstrate the powers of oxygenated water as this falls under Homeopathy. They will pay for the double blind tests under controlled scientific environments. All you need to do is put up and fill out the application to start the process.
Hello War. Would you be out of Man O'War or maybe War Emblem? In case you hadn't noticed, my comments on this thread, lenghty as they are, are more in the realm of science, experience, and fact, than they are in the realm of the paranormal, pseudoscientific and the supernatural- the realm that the James Randi Educational Foundation claims to be dealing with- although he takes on the owners of Penta Water, who, as far as I can see, have made no paranormal, pseudoscientific or supernatural claims whatsoever.
Fact is that the millon dollar challenge of that foundation is purportedly for someone to "prove" the paranormal if successful- something I have no interest in whatsoever. Even the advertisement on that site, of "proving" anything with statistical correlations based on double blind studies, is ludicrous. The laws of chemistry and physics do not depend on statistical correlations, and certainly not on the paranormal.
What I've tried to show here is that adding oxygen to water and drinking it, not a paranormal thing, is good for one's health. I suppose one could say that good health itself is a paranormal thing, and to a certain extent I'd have no argument with that view- ie., "a merry heart works like a medicine", or "it's not that which goes into the mouth that defiles a man but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.".
But I prefer to look at good health like a plant in the ground. It can grow even among rocks, but one can help it along, and maybe even increase it's yield, by pulling weeds and watering it, maybe even breaking up the ground a little so it can breathe better.
Those that want to reduce the matter to the paranormal are merely blowing smoke, like most horse trainers do. They tell the owner they are training their horse (and charge them $50 a day to do so), and then keep them in a stall for 23 hours a day, solitary confinement if you will, a sure way to detrain them, cause muscles to atrophy and attitudes to head south. Reminds me of the line, "While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption." Fortunately not all are servants of corruption or we'd all be dead!
So thanks for your concern about my retirement account. If the Amazing Randi reads this thread and decides to give me a million dollars, why I won't turn it down. But I won't hold my breath in the mean time.
It's an interview with a Professional Engineer who also is a professor in chemistry, and addresses the hoax on the internet of the evils of plastic bottles.
Actually, the reason it caught my attention was his comment that folks should not be afraid of drinking bottled water (or municipal water for that matter) as they are much more likely to suffer health problems from lack of proper hydration than they are from any "baddies" in water. Sort of puts the question of what water to drink in perspective- the first thing is to drink pleanty of water, then comes the question of what water to drink. Evidently the Schivo gal is going to die from dehydration, not starvation- a process that would take months, not days.
He also says that there is much more danger from microbes in the water than from what might go into solution from the container- and I'm confident he's talking about anaerobic microbes, not aerobic ones (the friendly ones found in the digestive tract). Highly oxygenated water is death on the former but not the latter.
Anyway, that saves me from having to find glass bottles at a reasonable price. About the only thing left is to prove or disprove the matter of oxygen leaking out through plastic bottles- which probably also is a non issue. So to prove the matter, I'll put a plastic bottle filled with freshly distilled water (that has no oxygen in it) into a corny keg and pressureize it to 60 psi with oxygen and leave it for a day or two and then take it out and measure the oxygen concentration in the bottle. If it hasn't changed, then I'm confident that under atmospheric conditions no oxygen originally in water leaks out of a plastic bottle. But I guess I'll have to do that after the maple sap stops running. I'll be sure to let everyone know the result.
Hey Oldiesman. Good idea. I'll get a couple of bottles of Penta Water from the store and we'll test all three. No knowing when each bottle was packaged but it's a reasonable assumption that the one you've had lying around for months is that much older than the stuff in the store.
I did get a chance to do my little experiment, which while not very carefully done, did indicate that oxygen does go thru plastic at four atmospheres difference in pressure (went from about 11 ppm to 22 ppm in two days- assuming the cap did not leak- a big assumption). I'll need to do a few more samples to make sure it wasn't an aberration.
Speaking of aberrations, the thought occurred to me that "The Amazing Randi's" million dollar challenge could quite possibly be the same million dollars left by a woman who died and left a million dollars to anyone who could prove the existence of life after death back in the late sixties.
I know about that million dollar "challenge" because long about that time I had a guy in a PFAL class in South Bend, Indiana who was a spiritist minister who was seriously persuing the matter and had imported a high speed camera from England so he could photograph ectoplasm. Seems laughable these days to think about a high speed camera built around 1968, but that's a fact. Don't know if he ever was successful because I kicked him out of the class after the first week.
As far as I know, he's the only guy I ever kicked out of a PFAL class, but rest assured, it was a unique experience. I'd noticed from the green card his occupation when he registered and since I'd only done maybe a half dozen classes by that time, I pointed the fact out to VPW after the first day of the class and asked him if I should give the guy the hook before the class even started.
His reply, and subsequent interest, is perhaps a side of him not generally known. Basically he said that he had no insight (revelation?) into the matter but advised me to watch him like a hawk.
So as the class fairly started I did so. And over the first week I noticed that whenever there was a logical position being discussed he was all ears, but when anything was being discussed that touched on the "The Good News", he was out like a light.
I also noticed that although the class was being held in a former graduate's home, there was a certain bondage over the class- for unlike the others I'd done, the convesation before class, during intermission, and after the class, was muted rather than animated as it usually was.
So finally I decided to give a little quiz at the end of the first week- ten fill-in-the-blank questions, like "Jesus said, I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more __________." I never counted, but my guess is that John 10:10 had to have been repeated at least a hundred times during the first week of the class, so that anybody sitting through 20 hours of lecture on the subject surely couldn't miss getting that question right.
To my amazement, "Mr. Ectoplasm" couldn't answer even that simple question, nor the other nine. So I went up to him and confronted him with that fact and said specifically that if I saw him go to sleep again I was going to dismiss him from the class. It wasn't ten minutes later that he was out like a light again and so I got his $20 check out of the cash box, handed it to him and asked him to leave. He gave me some comments like those sometimes found on this thread, about it being a free country and he wasn't leaving, etc. and I replied that while it was a free country this wasn't a "free" class and he wasn't running it, I was. The rest of the folks there were as quiet as a church mouse and although I wanted to smack the guy and bodily throw him out, the thought came to mind that I could say, "In the Name of Jesus Christ, get out of here." That seemed a more prudent way to proceed and to my amazement he didn't say another word but immediately got up and hit the door. As he was half out the door he mumbled something about not blaming him if something happened to me on the drive back to New knoxville and then he was gone. Come to think about it, he'd even offered earlier in the week to bring in his high speed camera to show everybody. I nixed that idea.
Anyway, driving back to New Knoxville I got real tired and thought to get a motel room somewhere and sleep off the previous days exertions. But, alas, there was no room in the inn- not even a manger for this babe in the woods. Must have been four in the morning when I limped into headquarters and to my amazement VPW was sitting on the porch steps smoking a cigarette. He asked me what had happened, I told him, he said "good", flipped his cigarette onto the lawn and said, "I'm going to bed."
Maybe every negative ever reported about him is true, but I don't think he faked his sincerity that day. It is a side of him not often reported.
Come to think about it, if I'd have required perfection from everyone I'd ever associated myself with over 61 years, why I'd have to disavow every teacher I've ever had- not to mention mere fellow travelers on planet earth who's path I've come across. It was good advice, in my opinion, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, something I've kept in mind all these years.
Sure wish I had that Green Card from 1968. Who knows, it might even had read "The Amazing Randi"!
By the way, I still live in Novelty, Ohio. If you have a Global Positioning Device, I can probably even get the exact coordinates from my neighbor John. The last two days have been great around here.
And more on plastic bottles. For those interested in mathmatics and the physics of gas transport through polymers, www.diffusion-polymers.com has a forum on the subject and tables listing permeability of CO2, O2 and N2 gasses through various plastics. Looks like the least permeable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate)- the kind of plastic bottle generally used by bottled water folks and soft drink folks alike.
Looks like the permeability of CO2 is almost twice that of O2 and the permeability of N2 is only 2/3 that of O2. And so the nitrogen from the air has less chance of getting into the bottle from the atmospnere than oxygen does excaping from the water inside the bottle to the atmosphere.
In any event, the summary of results in a paper titled "Diffusion of CO2 in Cola through a PET bottle" will give some idea of how much or how little escapes over time.
1. 8 hours after the bottle is filled with cola the first CO2 molecules diffuse through the PET bottle.
2. 24 hours after the bottle is filled with cola the stationary permeation state is reached of 0.02 grams per square meter per hour.
3. 10 months after the bottle is filled with cola half of the CO2 is gone and after 20 months all CO2 is diffused through the PET.
The numbers and times for oxygen transfer through PET will, of course, be different since the amount of CO2 that water can hold at atmospheric pressure is almost twenty times as much as the amount of O2 that it can hold. But one does get some idea that we're not talking about minutes or days for serious loss of quality to occur- given that the container is kept closed and storage is at room temperature.
But no question about it, the best situation is to make your own, keep it refrigerated, and drink it within a week or so of making it.
The Terri Schiavo case, made public four months after this thread started, is as eloquent a summary of what I've been trying to get at as any. It took 13 days from the time they removed the feeding tube until she died from dehydration. And that is probably twice as long as it would take any of us to meet the same fate without any water to drink, since she was almost totally immobile and therefore the energy demands of her body were far less than a normal persons.
I also couldn't help but notice how confused all the commentators on TV were over weither it was dehydration or starvation that was the cause of death. I guess they never read about Jesus, or John the Baptist, or Moses, fasting for forty days without a problem. Of the Big Three required to live, oxygen, water and food, food is the least of our problems- but is the very thing we spend virtually all our attention on. And yet lack of water will do us in long before a lack of food will. And a lack of oxygen will do us in long before a lack of water will.
I'm told the old prospectors use to take three burros with them when they went out on the desert looking for gold. The prospector rotated their water ration so that one burro would have no water for two days, one would have no water for one day and the third would be given water. If his planned water holes were dried up he'd let the burro go that had no water for two days as he would surely find water if it was within a days journey. He just followed him and if they found him dead, he'd let the next burro go, who by this time was without water two days. If they found him dead, he'd let the final burro go and if he found him dead he knew he was next. In the event he lived, he'd probably have a big bulbous nose, a sure sign that he'd been without water for to long.
Most of us never get into such drastic situations. But imagine the effects of just being 1% short on the amount of water you need in a days time. In fairly short order you will be chronically dehydrated, complete with a loss of strength, an attitude that has headed south, and sickness and disease not very far away at all, just like a stagnant pond instead of a mountain stream.
If you've never tried drinking a cold glass of oxygen saturated water, do so. I think you'll find that you never tasted anything so good, so refreshing, so energizing. And if you make a habit of doing so, you might just be amazed at what you experience after weeks or months of doing so. Oxygen saturated water- to your health! Here's looking at ya, mud in your eye, or whatever (don't know where that second toast comes from).
But no question about it, the best situation is to make your own, keep it refrigerated, and drink it within a week or so of making it.
Thanks for this information David.
No I don't have GPS...ha! I still love looking at old-fashioned maps. But those things are pretty incredible.
How does a weekend sometime in May sound for the trip there? Ideally, if I can let you know about 2 days ahead of time, that would give me the best chance of planning on riding during the nicest weather. I hate riding in rain unless its the hot summer when it's welcome.
The rest of the folks there were as quiet as a church mouse and although I wanted to smack the guy and bodily throw him out, the thought came to mind that I could say, "In the Name of Jesus Christ, get out of here." That seemed a more prudent way to proceed and to my amazement he didn't say another word but immediately got up and hit the door.
Question: Can anybody give a reasonable explaination for the fact that 364 views of this thread occurred the last five days of last month when only 800 views happened all month- and only 163 have happened the first half of this month? Seems an obvious abnormality to me.
When I started this thread back on Dec.4, I had no idea how much interest, if any, there would be on the subject of oxygen content in drinking water. So I was pleasantly surprised to find that 1,400 views had occurred in the first month of it's existance. And for the month of January there were 2,500 views.
By the end of February it seemed that the subject had run it's course as the number of views had dropped back to 1,400. March seemed to have confirmed that trend as only about 400 views had happened in March as of Easter Sunday, March 27. When I next looked on March 31, that number had almost doubled.
And so, being a devotee of cause and effect rather than statistical happenstance explained only by probability theory (and if that doesn't give the results desired, add a few billion or trillion years to make it fit- after all, anything can happen given enough time, provided that one accepts the thesis that infinity times infinity does not equal infinity squared- a tough concept to explain) I can't help but think there is a reason for this sudden apparent interest, followed by the major trend continuing again.
About all I could come up with is:
1. somebody jimmied the numbers
2. the KGB, FBI, NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, etc. folks wanted to take a closer look at a perceived threat to national security.
3. The AMA figured this might not be a fad that would go away any time soon and figured they needed to take a closer look.
4. Some college professor gave an assignment to his classes to read the thread (what a brutal assignment that was if it happened!).
5. An earthquate happened in New knoxville and a big hand came down out of the sky and a voice said "READ THIS THREAD".
6. Somehow the key words in the thread got moved to the top of the list of Google.
7. Dandi Randy is thinking about giving me a million dollars and mentioned it to his board.
Hopefully somebody will have the real answer to the question.
Question: Can anybody give a reasonable explaination for the fact that 364 views of this thread occurred the last five days of last month when only 800 views happened all month- and only 163 have happened the first half of this month? Seems an obvious abnormality to me.
David - the counters are not exactly reliable. They hardly ever reflect the truth.
David - the counters are not exactly reliable. They hardly ever reflect the truth.
Thanks Steve. I'll add that to my list of possibilities.
Let's see, Oakspear likes to be entertained, Belle likes to read what Oakspear wrote, and Raf likes to read what Bell writes. Hmmm, could this have something to do with the number of viewers of this thread in the five days following Easter? Maybe each one of them told all their friends they would have something profound to say here in the five days following Easter and sucked them all into taking a look if perchance they did- only to be disapointed. Possible, but more likely is that they lack social skills or never heard that it's very unlikely to arrive at a correct answer if one can't even get the question right.
Seems to me they thought the question was really stupid and just had to let everyone know what they thought of it. So here's another one that they may think equally stupid. What common chemical can one add to gasoline, in the amount of about 2 ounces per 10 gallons, that could increase your gas milage by 20-40%? Same small amount, same large potential benifit as adding oxygen to water and drinking it- only it has to do with merely saving you money rather than positively impacting your health.
How do you artificially extend the life of a thread that has long since run its purpose, made its point, and generates no new information about the topic?
A. Name it THE.
B. Call it a countdown and see if anyone gives a rat's patootie.
C. Ask irrelevant questions, all the while marvelling at the popularity of a topic no one's discussing anymore.
Possible, but more likely is that they lack social skills or never heard that it's very unlikely to arrive at a correct answer if one can't even get the question right.
Seems to me they thought the question was really stupid and just had to let everyone know what they thought of it.
I like to read what Oak, Raf, and Belle write! I've met Steve and he has excellent manners! I've talked with Belle on the phone and we have e-mailed and she has excellent manners! Oakpear has excellent manners, even after dating for 19 months...
I have met Raf and he has good manners and is quite intelligent like Oak and Belle!
I think it's great you like your Oxygen saturated water. I like some of the things I do that not everybody else is into. However, what works for me may not work for you.
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David Anderson
Hello Chuck. As long as the temperarure continues to drop below freezing at night and goes above freezing during the day, the sap will run. So Lord knows how much time is left to the season. Looks like it's good thru the weekend and probably into next week anyway. The problem is that once the trees start to bud, the sap starts tasting bitter and so about the only folks that buy the buddy syrup are the chewing tobacco folks, and, of course, they don't pay $40 a gallon for it!
I bought my taps from Richard's Maple Syrup on Rt. 6 going into Chardon. They cost 40 cents each. So I tapped four trees, (drill a hole about 3 inches into the tree- about to the middle joint of the finger- at a slight angle upward and wedge the plastic tap in with a hammer until it's good and snug- but not tight enough to crack the tree), with a total of 11 taps (trees over 79 inch circumfrence can take 3 taps and those between 70 and 79 can take two taps) and they are keeping my two water distiller's busy around the clock. Hopefully you have a maple syrup store closer than Chardon, on your side of town.
Anyway, it takes boiling about 30-40 gallons of sap to make one gallon of syrup. By day's end I should have my second gallon of "The Lord's Best Maple Product" done. I'm taking orders for it now should you not get around to doing it yourself. (but I won't deliver it for the $40 price- and you'll have to hurry since I'm amazed that I'm even getting two gallons- let alone maybe four or five ultimately).
Sure hope you bought the water distiller last week when they were on sale. It sure makes "mass production" (on a very small scale) easy. It's really no different than a pan on a hot plate except that no steam gets into the room to ruin everything, and it turns off automatically when all the water is boiled out and only syrup remains. And if you're not around five hours after having pushed the button to start the process it just sits and smiles while it waits for a refil- and being relieved of what little syrup there is- to be emptied into a safe deposit box or something, like it was gold. (Since I seldom sleep more than five hours at a crack, it works out perfect for me.) Try that with a pan on a hot plate and about all you have left is some carbon on the bottom of the pan- if there is any pan left! And, of course, there is something to "a watched pot never boils"- at least it seems that way when one has to watch thirty gallons of water evaporate just to get one gallon of syrup. And you thought refinishing furnature was tough!
Actually, I am available, for a fee, as a Maple Syrup Consultant. Not that I'm an expert, you understand. It's just that I'd like to show that gaining knowledge is profitable (something that is a new concept to me, old wayfer that I am!) So I made all my mistakes a couple of years ago learning how to tap maple trees, how many taps per tree, how to boil the sap, and how to figure out when it's done. I even spent $15 on a hydrometer (which was probably $14 more than it was worth- except that everything is that way these days!) So, what with the extra corny kegs I have to catch the sap, (one of which I'd offered to give to Krysilis months ago- except that her email was taken off the hook and my email to her was returned to sender), plastic tubing to run from the tap to the keg, quick disconnects to easily change the corny kegs, water distiller to pour it into, etc., even an oxygen meter to measure the oxygen concentration of the sap (you heard it here first that maple sap has 30 ppm oxygen- maybe nobody in the world knows that fact outside of those reading this thread- and no doubt most think it's worthless information- just like they think the Bible is worthless information- but that's there problem, not mine).
That reminds me of another story, told to me back in the sixties by my boss at the time, who was the expert in boiler plants between New York and Chicago. Seems he was called to look at a boiler plant that had mysteriously shut down and no one knew why. So he took a little hammer with him, drove out to the plant, pinged on this pipe and that, climbed up on a catwalk and did the same to yet more pipes, and finally gave one a big wack and then told the folks to start up the boilers again. Sure enough, everything ran like a champ. So they asked him how much they owed him and he said $1,000. They objected, pointing out that all he'd done is hit a pipe with a hammer. He replied, "Well, hitting the pipe with the hammer only cost you $5, knowing where to hit the pipe cost you $995."
As for the chickens, I threaten them regularly with chicken dinner if they don't behave! They don't listen, and I doubt they even know that I'm talking about chicken dinner for me, not them! Reminds me of a guy at a card game years ago that said, "If you don't know who the target is at the table, you're the target!" I think he was trying to tell me something- like I try to tell the chickens about chicken dinner. Anyway, no flap jacks for them. They might get a little sap, just to see if they like it. But then they'll complain that they don't get sap every day- for free- so I dare not make a habit of doing so. They won't understand that the sap does stop runing sooner or later.
By the way, did you ever start making oxygenated water for yourself and family? That actually takes less effort to set up than it does to make maple syrup- and the cost to do so isn't much more. I do think I'll go down to Sears today and see if I can get some filters for my Kenmores. Since Oldiesman mentioned it, I've been thinking that the carbon filter may take out the trace organics in the distillate from the maple sap. I sure have hated pouring all that distilled water down the drain just because of a trace of bitter taste!
Best wishes,
Dave
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Horse Called War
Dave,
You said you need to save for a retirement fund...
"Dandy Randi" as you called him at www.randi.org offers a confirmed $1,000,000 prize for ANYONE who can demonstrate the powers of oxygenated water as this falls under Homeopathy. They will pay for the double blind tests under controlled scientific environments. All you need to do is put up and fill out the application to start the process.
Please let us know how that goes.
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David Anderson
Hello War. Would you be out of Man O'War or maybe War Emblem? In case you hadn't noticed, my comments on this thread, lenghty as they are, are more in the realm of science, experience, and fact, than they are in the realm of the paranormal, pseudoscientific and the supernatural- the realm that the James Randi Educational Foundation claims to be dealing with- although he takes on the owners of Penta Water, who, as far as I can see, have made no paranormal, pseudoscientific or supernatural claims whatsoever.
Fact is that the millon dollar challenge of that foundation is purportedly for someone to "prove" the paranormal if successful- something I have no interest in whatsoever. Even the advertisement on that site, of "proving" anything with statistical correlations based on double blind studies, is ludicrous. The laws of chemistry and physics do not depend on statistical correlations, and certainly not on the paranormal.
What I've tried to show here is that adding oxygen to water and drinking it, not a paranormal thing, is good for one's health. I suppose one could say that good health itself is a paranormal thing, and to a certain extent I'd have no argument with that view- ie., "a merry heart works like a medicine", or "it's not that which goes into the mouth that defiles a man but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.".
But I prefer to look at good health like a plant in the ground. It can grow even among rocks, but one can help it along, and maybe even increase it's yield, by pulling weeds and watering it, maybe even breaking up the ground a little so it can breathe better.
Those that want to reduce the matter to the paranormal are merely blowing smoke, like most horse trainers do. They tell the owner they are training their horse (and charge them $50 a day to do so), and then keep them in a stall for 23 hours a day, solitary confinement if you will, a sure way to detrain them, cause muscles to atrophy and attitudes to head south. Reminds me of the line, "While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption." Fortunately not all are servants of corruption or we'd all be dead!
So thanks for your concern about my retirement account. If the Amazing Randi reads this thread and decides to give me a million dollars, why I won't turn it down. But I won't hold my breath in the mean time.
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David Anderson
To solve the objections to the use of plastic bottles, I've been looking for glass bottles and came across a site worth noting-
It's an interview with a Professional Engineer who also is a professor in chemistry, and addresses the hoax on the internet of the evils of plastic bottles.Actually, the reason it caught my attention was his comment that folks should not be afraid of drinking bottled water (or municipal water for that matter) as they are much more likely to suffer health problems from lack of proper hydration than they are from any "baddies" in water. Sort of puts the question of what water to drink in perspective- the first thing is to drink pleanty of water, then comes the question of what water to drink. Evidently the Schivo gal is going to die from dehydration, not starvation- a process that would take months, not days.
He also says that there is much more danger from microbes in the water than from what might go into solution from the container- and I'm confident he's talking about anaerobic microbes, not aerobic ones (the friendly ones found in the digestive tract). Highly oxygenated water is death on the former but not the latter.
Anyway, that saves me from having to find glass bottles at a reasonable price. About the only thing left is to prove or disprove the matter of oxygen leaking out through plastic bottles- which probably also is a non issue. So to prove the matter, I'll put a plastic bottle filled with freshly distilled water (that has no oxygen in it) into a corny keg and pressureize it to 60 psi with oxygen and leave it for a day or two and then take it out and measure the oxygen concentration in the bottle. If it hasn't changed, then I'm confident that under atmospheric conditions no oxygen originally in water leaks out of a plastic bottle. But I guess I'll have to do that after the maple sap stops running. I'll be sure to let everyone know the result.
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oldiesman
Dave, when I come over, I'll bring with me a bottle of Penta that's been lying around for months. Be interesting to test that one for oxygen content.
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CWF
Dave,
Did you try your sap on pancakes?
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David Anderson
Hey Oldiesman. Good idea. I'll get a couple of bottles of Penta Water from the store and we'll test all three. No knowing when each bottle was packaged but it's a reasonable assumption that the one you've had lying around for months is that much older than the stuff in the store.
I did get a chance to do my little experiment, which while not very carefully done, did indicate that oxygen does go thru plastic at four atmospheres difference in pressure (went from about 11 ppm to 22 ppm in two days- assuming the cap did not leak- a big assumption). I'll need to do a few more samples to make sure it wasn't an aberration.
Speaking of aberrations, the thought occurred to me that "The Amazing Randi's" million dollar challenge could quite possibly be the same million dollars left by a woman who died and left a million dollars to anyone who could prove the existence of life after death back in the late sixties.
I know about that million dollar "challenge" because long about that time I had a guy in a PFAL class in South Bend, Indiana who was a spiritist minister who was seriously persuing the matter and had imported a high speed camera from England so he could photograph ectoplasm. Seems laughable these days to think about a high speed camera built around 1968, but that's a fact. Don't know if he ever was successful because I kicked him out of the class after the first week.
As far as I know, he's the only guy I ever kicked out of a PFAL class, but rest assured, it was a unique experience. I'd noticed from the green card his occupation when he registered and since I'd only done maybe a half dozen classes by that time, I pointed the fact out to VPW after the first day of the class and asked him if I should give the guy the hook before the class even started.
His reply, and subsequent interest, is perhaps a side of him not generally known. Basically he said that he had no insight (revelation?) into the matter but advised me to watch him like a hawk.
So as the class fairly started I did so. And over the first week I noticed that whenever there was a logical position being discussed he was all ears, but when anything was being discussed that touched on the "The Good News", he was out like a light.
I also noticed that although the class was being held in a former graduate's home, there was a certain bondage over the class- for unlike the others I'd done, the convesation before class, during intermission, and after the class, was muted rather than animated as it usually was.
So finally I decided to give a little quiz at the end of the first week- ten fill-in-the-blank questions, like "Jesus said, I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more __________." I never counted, but my guess is that John 10:10 had to have been repeated at least a hundred times during the first week of the class, so that anybody sitting through 20 hours of lecture on the subject surely couldn't miss getting that question right.
To my amazement, "Mr. Ectoplasm" couldn't answer even that simple question, nor the other nine. So I went up to him and confronted him with that fact and said specifically that if I saw him go to sleep again I was going to dismiss him from the class. It wasn't ten minutes later that he was out like a light again and so I got his $20 check out of the cash box, handed it to him and asked him to leave. He gave me some comments like those sometimes found on this thread, about it being a free country and he wasn't leaving, etc. and I replied that while it was a free country this wasn't a "free" class and he wasn't running it, I was. The rest of the folks there were as quiet as a church mouse and although I wanted to smack the guy and bodily throw him out, the thought came to mind that I could say, "In the Name of Jesus Christ, get out of here." That seemed a more prudent way to proceed and to my amazement he didn't say another word but immediately got up and hit the door. As he was half out the door he mumbled something about not blaming him if something happened to me on the drive back to New knoxville and then he was gone. Come to think about it, he'd even offered earlier in the week to bring in his high speed camera to show everybody. I nixed that idea.
Anyway, driving back to New Knoxville I got real tired and thought to get a motel room somewhere and sleep off the previous days exertions. But, alas, there was no room in the inn- not even a manger for this babe in the woods. Must have been four in the morning when I limped into headquarters and to my amazement VPW was sitting on the porch steps smoking a cigarette. He asked me what had happened, I told him, he said "good", flipped his cigarette onto the lawn and said, "I'm going to bed."
Maybe every negative ever reported about him is true, but I don't think he faked his sincerity that day. It is a side of him not often reported.
Come to think about it, if I'd have required perfection from everyone I'd ever associated myself with over 61 years, why I'd have to disavow every teacher I've ever had- not to mention mere fellow travelers on planet earth who's path I've come across. It was good advice, in my opinion, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, something I've kept in mind all these years.
Sure wish I had that Green Card from 1968. Who knows, it might even had read "The Amazing Randi"!
By the way, I still live in Novelty, Ohio. If you have a Global Positioning Device, I can probably even get the exact coordinates from my neighbor John. The last two days have been great around here.
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David Anderson
And more on plastic bottles. For those interested in mathmatics and the physics of gas transport through polymers, www.diffusion-polymers.com has a forum on the subject and tables listing permeability of CO2, O2 and N2 gasses through various plastics. Looks like the least permeable plastic is PET (polyethylene terephthalate)- the kind of plastic bottle generally used by bottled water folks and soft drink folks alike.
Looks like the permeability of CO2 is almost twice that of O2 and the permeability of N2 is only 2/3 that of O2. And so the nitrogen from the air has less chance of getting into the bottle from the atmospnere than oxygen does excaping from the water inside the bottle to the atmosphere.
In any event, the summary of results in a paper titled "Diffusion of CO2 in Cola through a PET bottle" will give some idea of how much or how little escapes over time.
1. 8 hours after the bottle is filled with cola the first CO2 molecules diffuse through the PET bottle.
2. 24 hours after the bottle is filled with cola the stationary permeation state is reached of 0.02 grams per square meter per hour.
3. 10 months after the bottle is filled with cola half of the CO2 is gone and after 20 months all CO2 is diffused through the PET.
The numbers and times for oxygen transfer through PET will, of course, be different since the amount of CO2 that water can hold at atmospheric pressure is almost twenty times as much as the amount of O2 that it can hold. But one does get some idea that we're not talking about minutes or days for serious loss of quality to occur- given that the container is kept closed and storage is at room temperature.
But no question about it, the best situation is to make your own, keep it refrigerated, and drink it within a week or so of making it.
The Terri Schiavo case, made public four months after this thread started, is as eloquent a summary of what I've been trying to get at as any. It took 13 days from the time they removed the feeding tube until she died from dehydration. And that is probably twice as long as it would take any of us to meet the same fate without any water to drink, since she was almost totally immobile and therefore the energy demands of her body were far less than a normal persons.
I also couldn't help but notice how confused all the commentators on TV were over weither it was dehydration or starvation that was the cause of death. I guess they never read about Jesus, or John the Baptist, or Moses, fasting for forty days without a problem. Of the Big Three required to live, oxygen, water and food, food is the least of our problems- but is the very thing we spend virtually all our attention on. And yet lack of water will do us in long before a lack of food will. And a lack of oxygen will do us in long before a lack of water will.
I'm told the old prospectors use to take three burros with them when they went out on the desert looking for gold. The prospector rotated their water ration so that one burro would have no water for two days, one would have no water for one day and the third would be given water. If his planned water holes were dried up he'd let the burro go that had no water for two days as he would surely find water if it was within a days journey. He just followed him and if they found him dead, he'd let the next burro go, who by this time was without water two days. If they found him dead, he'd let the final burro go and if he found him dead he knew he was next. In the event he lived, he'd probably have a big bulbous nose, a sure sign that he'd been without water for to long.
Most of us never get into such drastic situations. But imagine the effects of just being 1% short on the amount of water you need in a days time. In fairly short order you will be chronically dehydrated, complete with a loss of strength, an attitude that has headed south, and sickness and disease not very far away at all, just like a stagnant pond instead of a mountain stream.
If you've never tried drinking a cold glass of oxygen saturated water, do so. I think you'll find that you never tasted anything so good, so refreshing, so energizing. And if you make a habit of doing so, you might just be amazed at what you experience after weeks or months of doing so. Oxygen saturated water- to your health! Here's looking at ya, mud in your eye, or whatever (don't know where that second toast comes from).
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oldiesman
Thanks for this information David.
No I don't have GPS...ha! I still love looking at old-fashioned maps. But those things are pretty incredible.
How does a weekend sometime in May sound for the trip there? Ideally, if I can let you know about 2 days ahead of time, that would give me the best chance of planning on riding during the nicest weather. I hate riding in rain unless its the hot summer when it's welcome.
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CWF
We need to do this more often.
Good story, Dave.
Hey, when I get a chance, I'll stop by.
Give me a call on the cell phone.
Grandpa CW
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David Anderson
Question: Can anybody give a reasonable explaination for the fact that 364 views of this thread occurred the last five days of last month when only 800 views happened all month- and only 163 have happened the first half of this month? Seems an obvious abnormality to me.
When I started this thread back on Dec.4, I had no idea how much interest, if any, there would be on the subject of oxygen content in drinking water. So I was pleasantly surprised to find that 1,400 views had occurred in the first month of it's existance. And for the month of January there were 2,500 views.
By the end of February it seemed that the subject had run it's course as the number of views had dropped back to 1,400. March seemed to have confirmed that trend as only about 400 views had happened in March as of Easter Sunday, March 27. When I next looked on March 31, that number had almost doubled.
And so, being a devotee of cause and effect rather than statistical happenstance explained only by probability theory (and if that doesn't give the results desired, add a few billion or trillion years to make it fit- after all, anything can happen given enough time, provided that one accepts the thesis that infinity times infinity does not equal infinity squared- a tough concept to explain) I can't help but think there is a reason for this sudden apparent interest, followed by the major trend continuing again.
About all I could come up with is:
1. somebody jimmied the numbers
2. the KGB, FBI, NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, etc. folks wanted to take a closer look at a perceived threat to national security.
3. The AMA figured this might not be a fad that would go away any time soon and figured they needed to take a closer look.
4. Some college professor gave an assignment to his classes to read the thread (what a brutal assignment that was if it happened!).
5. An earthquate happened in New knoxville and a big hand came down out of the sky and a voice said "READ THIS THREAD".
6. Somehow the key words in the thread got moved to the top of the list of Google.
7. Dandi Randy is thinking about giving me a million dollars and mentioned it to his board.
Hopefully somebody will have the real answer to the question.
Here's to hope!
Dave
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oldiesman
David, I bet it's got something to do with Randi Dandy.
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Steve!
David - the counters are not exactly reliable. They hardly ever reflect the truth.
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Oakspear
I couldn't care less about oxy water.
I come here for the entertainment
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Belle
I only look at this thread when Oakspear posts on it and usually his is the only post I read.
;)-->
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Raf
I only read Belle's.
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David Anderson
Thanks Steve. I'll add that to my list of possibilities.
Let's see, Oakspear likes to be entertained, Belle likes to read what Oakspear wrote, and Raf likes to read what Bell writes. Hmmm, could this have something to do with the number of viewers of this thread in the five days following Easter? Maybe each one of them told all their friends they would have something profound to say here in the five days following Easter and sucked them all into taking a look if perchance they did- only to be disapointed. Possible, but more likely is that they lack social skills or never heard that it's very unlikely to arrive at a correct answer if one can't even get the question right.
Seems to me they thought the question was really stupid and just had to let everyone know what they thought of it. So here's another one that they may think equally stupid. What common chemical can one add to gasoline, in the amount of about 2 ounces per 10 gallons, that could increase your gas milage by 20-40%? Same small amount, same large potential benifit as adding oxygen to water and drinking it- only it has to do with merely saving you money rather than positively impacting your health.
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oldiesman
David whatever it is please spill the beans, I wanna try it. I'm spending too much money on gas and it ain't getting any cheaper.
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Raf
Here's another question...
How do you artificially extend the life of a thread that has long since run its purpose, made its point, and generates no new information about the topic?
A. Name it THE.
B. Call it a countdown and see if anyone gives a rat's patootie.
C. Ask irrelevant questions, all the while marvelling at the popularity of a topic no one's discussing anymore.
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GarthP2000
... D. Add pineapple and call it *PIZZA*!
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Steve!
And in the process be condescending and accuse all other posters of having no social skills.
Of course, it takes social skills to recognize the existence or lack thereof of same in others . . .
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Oakspear
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reikilady
I like to read what Oak, Raf, and Belle write! I've met Steve and he has excellent manners! I've talked with Belle on the phone and we have e-mailed and she has excellent manners! Oakpear has excellent manners, even after dating for 19 months...
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!
The resident witch has spoken!
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reikilady
I have met Raf and he has good manners and is quite intelligent like Oak and Belle!
I think it's great you like your Oxygen saturated water. I like some of the things I do that not everybody else is into. However, what works for me may not work for you.
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