To the nay-sayers, and those who believe Penta water is bunk:
What do you think of accupuncture? or reflexology? or hypnotism (for pain control, weight control and smoking cessation) and other non traditional therapies such as holistic medicine and chiropractors?
Never looked at any of those things with a discerning eye to tell how they are supposed to work and what the claims are, so I don't have an honest answer. I went to a chiropractor in my 20s. He said it would do A, B, and C. It did A. It did not do B or C. I think the "success" of my chiropractic treatment had more to do with the foot pads they had me wear than the little gizmo that snapped on my back three or four times per session. As an eyewitness, my belief is that chiropractic is bunk. But that doesn't mean I have the slightest idea whether or how it works for other people.
I don't know how accupuncture is supposed to work or whether it does. I don't know the mechanics of hypnotism and how that's supposed to work. I've never heard of reflexology until reading your post.
Warring over water for pete's sake. Not a civil conversation which is fine but sheesh, isn't there other things more important then this?
Some say it works good some say it doesn't. Ok, fine. End of story.
But no, drag it out and start a war, split people into groups, take sides, rather then just saying your peace and ending it.
This is a great example of being blinded by a somewhat insignificant subject. And how wars are started and people divided and hurt.
And yes Garth it is a good brain exercise, but it's gone beyond that, imo.
10 pages now on ******* water. Water is important, but that importance didn't even come up. Just a brand of water.
So go on beating each other up. Knock yourselves out. And lose sight of greater things that are being so blatantly missed it's pathetic. Being so consumed in the fight, that it even takes out the innocent bystanders.
Suffice it to say, there's no shortage of bogus nonsense out there. No, I don't buy any of it anymore.
If a regimen has a track record of published, properly blinded, reproduceable testing that shows it has merit, yeah, I'll look into that. But there's not enough time in the world to look into all the unsupported outrageous claims made by the "alternative" medicine community.
If something is really all that wonderful, what's stopping it's promoters from designing, running, and then publishing some decent tests?
(and no, "I took it and now I feel great!" is no substitute for that).
I'm finished constructing it. I will hang a long post up here shortly.
I don't like this fighting. I respect your feelings George. I've been helped greatly by chripractors of 2 separate occaisions...but that doesn't mean everybody's ills will respond.
Just read the coming post and think a while...maybe we can settle down and have some profit from all these pages!
CM - I understand where you're coming from now, and I'm sorry I was sarcastic.
We are not all talking about the same thing here.
There is Penta Water. A brand of distilled water which has been super oxygenated (of dubious value to some) BUT the water itself has been "stabilized" into a form which had been trademarked by that company (I don't think trademarks can be issued to snake oil) and this particular water configuration fits into cell pores which exactly accommodate it. That's what the 5 water cluster is all about and the discovery of these pores in cells won it's discoverers a Nobel prize.
Then - there’s David Anderson's water...which is distilled and super oxygenated....but not into the specialized 5 molecule cluster.
We have people confusing one with the other, and while it might be trite to some, I don't think it's trite at all. Penta Water IS NOT THE SAME THING as David's water. He stated so. He brought up the brand as an encouragement to have us try some without coming to him or building the apparatus so we could see any benefit.
David has given this water that he made himself to many folks for either no money, or just the cost of a new clean bottle. He is not trying to sell snake oil.
Now - - - - - - - -
Not too very long ago there was a forum war here. It was started by another brand of "religion" and it caused a lot of ill will and hard feelings all around. It drove some posters, indeed some valuable posters away. Either they are in lurk mode, or they've left the site forever never to return because of that hurt.
....
.....
Months pass. And one David Anderson, whom none of us know and he leaves an interesting post about oxygenated water. There is brief discussion and then he and I had a minor misunderstanding about massage therapy. When we realized it, we straightened it out and I began to add what I know of biology to the mix.
There was more discussion and David began describing how to construct the apparatus using oxygen from Welding Supplies because Oxygen requires a prescription from a medical doctor. THEN someone, I don’t remember the poster…and I ain’t gonna go back and look now….mentioned the real possibility of danger using Welding grade oxygen and possible contamination. Now that was a valid reason to make a strong statement to get everybody’s attention so nobody would be harmed.
At this point, after doing some research and calling one local welding supplier, I seriously doubt that there are any harmful products in welder’s grade oxygen, but never-the-less, it was a wise move to post the warning. There is another potentially very harmful possibility if folks just decide to consume quantities of this home-made oxygenated stuff or the Penta or other brands. That is…if you’re feeling low on energy and you think this will fix you. Maybe you should check with your Dr. before diagnosing yourself and missing an opportunity for proper and timely diagnosis.
Now let’s get back to the first 3 – 5 pages of this thread. Am I the only one in whose head a bell went off signaling “Troll†when this first became a popular thread? I admit, I thought about it, but decided to wait and see…..I think lots of others may have considered the same thing and that’s why some of the really harsh comments were made on this thread - - made by lots of folks…and I’m not accusing…just stating.
I’m sorry this is getting long, but I’m coming to the end soon - - promise!
Then along come the science buffs who demand that David PROVE his stuff works! They want double blind and all other kinds of scientific stuff which he cannot do - - nope - - not even if he had several million to invest in it.
In order to do such a study and have it recognized by somebody as being valid…he needs connections to those who know how to set these trials up (there was a study done….on superb athletes…they were given 500ml of Penta Water!...and it was done one time Cut me some slack! 16 oz of no beverage I know of will produce any significant change in an athlete’s performance .) He would require sophisticated apparatus, willing athletes, temperature, pressure and humidity controlled environments, and serious statistical analyses. No “average person type†is going to be able to secure these resources….you need to have some recognition somewhere in order to attract attention from independent testing labs . So you see, he can’t prove it…not because it doesn’t work…but because what it takes to prove it - - he doesn’t have!
I asked about chiropractics, reflexology, acupuncture and the other non-FDA approved approaches because many people use them – some with great relief from symptoms, and none of them have ever been tested scenically. They work because they work - - and they don’t all work on all people. The only evidence anyone has about these is the same anecdotal evidence that some of us have made about either Penta Water or highly oxygenated water. Nobody that I know of has ever considered that these work because of a placebo effect, so I wonder if the Penta Water falls in the same category as those?
Either way – I doesn’t seem right that those who are thinking about trying this, or who already have, should be made to feel stupid, or inferior, or less than normal because they want to try it and I think that some of the discussions here on recent pares could point them in that direction.
If there’s more to be said, maybe we could all be lots more kind in selecting our words and respect the fact that lots of people read this ‘cause it’s interesting and informative….and at least a few of us may learn something.
Have you ever even heard the term "anecdotal evidence"?
Sorta like the medicine men of the old west, traveling from town to town selling their miraculous patent medicines. They never seemed to have a shortage of heartfelt testimonials as to the effecaciousness of their product...
geo.
Hey George, you remind me of my neighbor who, by the way, is a very helpful and kind hearted guy, but demands proof and won't believe the proof even when it's furnished to him as regards oxygenated water. He's the reason I know so much about the negative posts at the beginning of this thread because he furnished the "studies" to me a year and a half ago that he thought debunked my reports. But he's an engineer like I am and so we have plenty to talk about besides oxygenated water and get along quite well.
But I wll say that the snake oil salesmen of a former time have been very successful. They are now known as the American Medical Association and such companies as Glaxo, Lilly, et. al. They've all made huge amounts of money selling drugs, making people wait for doctors appointments, and hiding such things as the accidental death rate in hospitals and the malpractice suits that result in such high insurance costs.
So to combat the unscrupulous promotion and sale of unsafe products they are required to fund double blind studies to 1. show that their product is not dangerous to health, and 2. to show there is some possibility of good to the purchaser- no matter that since they fund the studies they can hide all but the ones they want to publish. But that's far different than telling someone they can't plant their own garden before first funding a double blind study, let alone eating the produce from it.
Like you, I'd like to see the AMA take up the matter of oxygen in water and it's benifits (or possible dangers) to health, which is one of the reasons I'm posting here. After some 244 posts, of which 55 are mine, I'd hoped that someone would search the internet and find AMA or drug company funded studies to show there were dangers or to show there were no benifits.
After all, they are the ones that stand to lose money if people are healthier. The reason I assumed such would show up is that the simple matter of adding oxygen to water threatens their money-making schemes. But all I've seen is innuendo, insult, defamation, and most of the other tactics used to discredit an idea not shared or investigated by others, or perhaps detrimental to their income stream or their reputation as "experts".
But now we have some show up to even complain about how long the thread is. And I laugh because it is such a simple thing, adding oxygen (not ozone, not hydrogen peroxide, not bleach) to water, whether distilled, tap, well, etc. And with such large quantities of water being bought at the store, including Penta Water, the assumption must be that these are not dangerous to your health or for sure the AMA would have shut them down years ago. I mean, even Coke and Pepsi have water products that add oxygen and you can't get any more main stream than that. The question only is how much oxygen in water is good for you and the mecidal doctors I've talked to say more is always better. So I've showed people how they can make their own and have it saturated when they drink it (75ppm) and, if they don't want to make it themselves they can buy it in the store at 40-50 ppm (Penta Water).
It sort of reminds me of Grace Bliss recommending seven grain bread rather than white bread back in the 60's. My only complaint about that recommendation was that it was so difficult to get seven grain bread. I sure didn't like some people at the time telling me that I would die if I ate white bread, and so my response was that if they furnished me with seven grain bread I would surely prefer it over white bread, becaue I did.
But those were the days before the "mainsteam" grocery stores even thought about having "natural" products on their shelves. Just the other day I thought about Grace when I picked up a loaf of fourteen grain bread at the supermarket. Bless her heart!
But whether you're an athiest or not, I rather suspect you really do care about people and their health and so I'll tell you my current "grand plan", namely to get a job with either the government or Penta Water or the like and head off to Bagdad to set up a plant to make oxygenated water. That part of the world has a serious problem with low oxygen levels in their water and it affects lots of things, causing a bad attitude among other ill health issues. (the brain does take 20% of the oxygen we consume daily in spite of the fact that it is only 3% of our body weight).
So about all I can say to you is, "Try it, you'll like it".
I may be opening up a whole can of worms, but I think something worth considering that plays a huge part in the overall health of an invidual (more than the water debate) is the "PH balance in a person's body......acidic versus akaline." I have read many articles over the years on this subject and found it to be very interesting and also very enlightening!
quote:It sort of reminds me of Grace Bliss recommending seven grain bread rather than white bread back in the 60's. My only complaint about that recommendation was that it was so difficult to get seven grain bread. I sure didn't like some people at the time telling me that I would die if I ate white bread, and so my response was that if they furnished me with seven grain bread I would surely prefer it over white bread, becaue I did.
I was just thinking about this last week. I saw a commercial from one of the major cereal makers stating that their cereals were going to be made from whole grains.
I thought when I heard that commercial, God bless Grace B. and Eleanor W. and all the others like them, both in and out of twi, who fought so hard to raise awareness of what really consitutes good nutrition. It took many years (Grace wasn't the first proponent of healthy eating, of course) for that awareness to increase to the point that consumers started demanding healthier choices. But by golly, it happened.
In fact, that commercial triggered quite a discussion between my son and me, about just what you've said, David. It used to be hard to find whole-grain anything outside a health-food store, where prices were high because of limited demand. And I heard many people say that growing food organically was a lot of hooey.
Perhaps superoxygenated water will be a readily available (and cheaper) product years down the road after more people look into it and more people realize benefits from it. Maybe not. Maybe it will turn out to offer no real benefit but better-tasting water. But we won't know until we know.
Maybe someone will find a way to improve it down the road, but discovery/investigation of anything new has to start somewhere. Maybe someone will prove that it's just "bunk," but they haven't yet--not to my satisfaction as a person who has to read clinical and scientific studies regularly in my work.
I've read that other medical people thought Pasteur was off his nut when he suggested that using sterile instruments and good hand-washing practices just might cause fewer people to die after surgery.
Thank you, SirGuess and Krys, for your posts, and you too, David. One can simply read them and decide what they want to consider. I'd thank the naysayers, too, if they'd said, "Well, what about this?" or "Have you considered that?" instead of "You're selling snake oil" or "That's just bunk" or the other pronouncements that have been made in this thread.
And it's been stated before, and I'll state it again. David isn't selling anything. He's not selling water. He's not selling the equipment to make this water. He came here with an idea to share. I commend him for sticking around after the rocks started flying.
And as for Goey's comment way back early in the thread about my lack of objectivity: You could be right. If I'm biased, it stems from the fact that (1) I know David and know what a kind and helpful person he is and (2) that I've seen people in this thread pile onto many other people in the past several years in much the same way they did in this one. Guardians of the freekin' truth. Right.
You're right about the long view of history, Linda.
There was a physician who delivered babies at London's Women's Hospital (in the 1860's). Women flocked to him and his hospital for childbirth. His name was Simmelweiss and he was the one who insisted that all hospital personnel wash hands thoroughly between attending patients. That was one of the most important things to end the scourge of pregnancy and delivery, childbed fever...which newly delivered mothers rarely survived!
He had plenty of flak to stand against as other physians and hospitals threw whatever they could at him because of all the monies they were losing. Very few people knew or understood about the germ theory of disease, or why diseases spread at that time, it was anecdotal evidence to them. They just knew that it worked.
And what would a real 'gaurdian of the freekin' truth do in this case, hmmm? As tho' being gaurdians was the main motivation of us 'ungodly nay-sayers'?. Yah! Right! -->
Have you read *and considered* the details of what Raf, Goey, et al has posted in their alledged 'piling on' on David? Oh, and notice that the emotion-o-meter jumped ONLY when David pulled his shake the finger approach at us nay-sayers. And wasn't my 1st post here regarding that tactic, instead of the oxygenation theory itself? But I tell you what. Forget my posts, which you never took a liking to anyway. Ok, I can live with that.
But why not consider Raf's, Zix's, and Goey's posts in detail, like I suggested? They go well beyond and above the "Your post *sux*" attitude; yes they do. Both sides do have valid information to consider, but, as kindly and helpful as David undoubtadly is, his condescending dismissing of the 'nay-sayers' does NOT help, and it just contributed to the 'piling on', as it were. Plus he shoulda realized that the 'take it by faith' admonition didn't, and won't work here, in a message board filled with people who has experienced that same attitude in TWI, and whom I would be willing to bet *ain't* gonna put up with that again.
So, uhh, yeah Dave, we're gonna ask for proof, pain-in-the-assets as that is gonna be. And no, I for one, see no reason why I should take your word as superior, by default, to the A.M.A., or even to the FEDGOV, regardless of your experiences with them.
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krys
Who is twisting your arm to read it?
Did you really wade through 8 pages of posts and come to that conclusion?
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excathedra
let's mix some water with kindness that would taste good
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krys
To the nay-sayers, and those who believe Penta water is bunk:
What do you think of accupuncture? or reflexology? or hypnotism (for pain control, weight control and smoking cessation) and other non traditional therapies such as holistic medicine and chiropractors?
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Raf
Never looked at any of those things with a discerning eye to tell how they are supposed to work and what the claims are, so I don't have an honest answer. I went to a chiropractor in my 20s. He said it would do A, B, and C. It did A. It did not do B or C. I think the "success" of my chiropractic treatment had more to do with the foot pads they had me wear than the little gizmo that snapped on my back three or four times per session. As an eyewitness, my belief is that chiropractic is bunk. But that doesn't mean I have the slightest idea whether or how it works for other people.
I don't know how accupuncture is supposed to work or whether it does. I don't know the mechanics of hypnotism and how that's supposed to work. I've never heard of reflexology until reading your post.
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excathedra
you should get out more raf
;)--> 
;)--> 
;)-->
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Raf
I also don't believe in voo-doo, although I've heard there are eyewitnesses who will endorse it.
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Cynic
I don’t believe in “pair†juice.
Littlehawk supposedly produces or buys such stuff from pairs of what?
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excathedra
scary
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Raf
DOH!
PEAR juice!
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CM
....I should have said...
....has become such a distraction....
Warring over water for pete's sake. Not a civil conversation which is fine but sheesh, isn't there other things more important then this?
Some say it works good some say it doesn't. Ok, fine. End of story.
But no, drag it out and start a war, split people into groups, take sides, rather then just saying your peace and ending it.
This is a great example of being blinded by a somewhat insignificant subject. And how wars are started and people divided and hurt.
And yes Garth it is a good brain exercise, but it's gone beyond that, imo.
10 pages now on ******* water. Water is important, but that importance didn't even come up. Just a brand of water.
So go on beating each other up. Knock yourselves out. And lose sight of greater things that are being so blatantly missed it's pathetic. Being so consumed in the fight, that it even takes out the innocent bystanders.
cm
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GarthP2000
In what way did it 'take them out'? I mean, was there an Uzi involved? Or was this one of those 'drive by postings'?
And like Krysilis said, who's twisting your arm to read it?
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CM
"In what way did it 'take them out'?"
Those who are following this war and that have a deep respect for those posting get just as consumed by it.
I read it cause I care.
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George Aar
Krysilis,
Add to your list:
chiropractic
iridology
crystal therapy
therapeutic touch
oh, gawd, the list is endless.
Suffice it to say, there's no shortage of bogus nonsense out there. No, I don't buy any of it anymore.
If a regimen has a track record of published, properly blinded, reproduceable testing that shows it has merit, yeah, I'll look into that. But there's not enough time in the world to look into all the unsupported outrageous claims made by the "alternative" medicine community.
If something is really all that wonderful, what's stopping it's promoters from designing, running, and then publishing some decent tests?
(and no, "I took it and now I feel great!" is no substitute for that).
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krys
I'm finished constructing it. I will hang a long post up here shortly.
I don't like this fighting. I respect your feelings George. I've been helped greatly by chripractors of 2 separate occaisions...but that doesn't mean everybody's ills will respond.
Just read the coming post and think a while...maybe we can settle down and have some profit from all these pages!
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krys
CM - I understand where you're coming from now, and I'm sorry I was sarcastic.
We are not all talking about the same thing here.
There is Penta Water. A brand of distilled water which has been super oxygenated (of dubious value to some) BUT the water itself has been "stabilized" into a form which had been trademarked by that company (I don't think trademarks can be issued to snake oil) and this particular water configuration fits into cell pores which exactly accommodate it. That's what the 5 water cluster is all about and the discovery of these pores in cells won it's discoverers a Nobel prize.
Then - there’s David Anderson's water...which is distilled and super oxygenated....but not into the specialized 5 molecule cluster.
We have people confusing one with the other, and while it might be trite to some, I don't think it's trite at all. Penta Water IS NOT THE SAME THING as David's water. He stated so. He brought up the brand as an encouragement to have us try some without coming to him or building the apparatus so we could see any benefit.
David has given this water that he made himself to many folks for either no money, or just the cost of a new clean bottle. He is not trying to sell snake oil.
Now - - - - - - - -
Not too very long ago there was a forum war here. It was started by another brand of "religion" and it caused a lot of ill will and hard feelings all around. It drove some posters, indeed some valuable posters away. Either they are in lurk mode, or they've left the site forever never to return because of that hurt.
....
.....
Months pass. And one David Anderson, whom none of us know and he leaves an interesting post about oxygenated water. There is brief discussion and then he and I had a minor misunderstanding about massage therapy. When we realized it, we straightened it out and I began to add what I know of biology to the mix.
There was more discussion and David began describing how to construct the apparatus using oxygen from Welding Supplies because Oxygen requires a prescription from a medical doctor. THEN someone, I don’t remember the poster…and I ain’t gonna go back and look now….mentioned the real possibility of danger using Welding grade oxygen and possible contamination. Now that was a valid reason to make a strong statement to get everybody’s attention so nobody would be harmed.
At this point, after doing some research and calling one local welding supplier, I seriously doubt that there are any harmful products in welder’s grade oxygen, but never-the-less, it was a wise move to post the warning. There is another potentially very harmful possibility if folks just decide to consume quantities of this home-made oxygenated stuff or the Penta or other brands. That is…if you’re feeling low on energy and you think this will fix you. Maybe you should check with your Dr. before diagnosing yourself and missing an opportunity for proper and timely diagnosis.
Now let’s get back to the first 3 – 5 pages of this thread. Am I the only one in whose head a bell went off signaling “Troll†when this first became a popular thread? I admit, I thought about it, but decided to wait and see…..I think lots of others may have considered the same thing and that’s why some of the really harsh comments were made on this thread - - made by lots of folks…and I’m not accusing…just stating.
I’m sorry this is getting long, but I’m coming to the end soon - - promise!
Then along come the science buffs who demand that David PROVE his stuff works! They want double blind and all other kinds of scientific stuff which he cannot do - - nope - - not even if he had several million to invest in it.
In order to do such a study and have it recognized by somebody as being valid…he needs connections to those who know how to set these trials up (there was a study done….on superb athletes…they were given 500ml of Penta Water!...and it was done one time Cut me some slack! 16 oz of no beverage I know of will produce any significant change in an athlete’s performance .) He would require sophisticated apparatus, willing athletes, temperature, pressure and humidity controlled environments, and serious statistical analyses. No “average person type†is going to be able to secure these resources….you need to have some recognition somewhere in order to attract attention from independent testing labs . So you see, he can’t prove it…not because it doesn’t work…but because what it takes to prove it - - he doesn’t have!
I asked about chiropractics, reflexology, acupuncture and the other non-FDA approved approaches because many people use them – some with great relief from symptoms, and none of them have ever been tested scenically. They work because they work - - and they don’t all work on all people. The only evidence anyone has about these is the same anecdotal evidence that some of us have made about either Penta Water or highly oxygenated water. Nobody that I know of has ever considered that these work because of a placebo effect, so I wonder if the Penta Water falls in the same category as those?
Either way – I doesn’t seem right that those who are thinking about trying this, or who already have, should be made to feel stupid, or inferior, or less than normal because they want to try it and I think that some of the discussions here on recent pares could point them in that direction.
If there’s more to be said, maybe we could all be lots more kind in selecting our words and respect the fact that lots of people read this ‘cause it’s interesting and informative….and at least a few of us may learn something.
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CM
Proverbs 20:5 Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.
Speaking of water, this is what you just did Garth.
It's a working together thing not against each other.
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CM
krysilis
no problem
Peace
:)-->
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GarthP2000
And what was it specifically that I just did?
-->
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CM
If you didn't say what you said, I wouldn't have said what I said. Both are counseling, imo.
gotta get some shut eye time now.
talk more soon...
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David Anderson
Hey George, you remind me of my neighbor who, by the way, is a very helpful and kind hearted guy, but demands proof and won't believe the proof even when it's furnished to him as regards oxygenated water. He's the reason I know so much about the negative posts at the beginning of this thread because he furnished the "studies" to me a year and a half ago that he thought debunked my reports. But he's an engineer like I am and so we have plenty to talk about besides oxygenated water and get along quite well.
But I wll say that the snake oil salesmen of a former time have been very successful. They are now known as the American Medical Association and such companies as Glaxo, Lilly, et. al. They've all made huge amounts of money selling drugs, making people wait for doctors appointments, and hiding such things as the accidental death rate in hospitals and the malpractice suits that result in such high insurance costs.
So to combat the unscrupulous promotion and sale of unsafe products they are required to fund double blind studies to 1. show that their product is not dangerous to health, and 2. to show there is some possibility of good to the purchaser- no matter that since they fund the studies they can hide all but the ones they want to publish. But that's far different than telling someone they can't plant their own garden before first funding a double blind study, let alone eating the produce from it.
Like you, I'd like to see the AMA take up the matter of oxygen in water and it's benifits (or possible dangers) to health, which is one of the reasons I'm posting here. After some 244 posts, of which 55 are mine, I'd hoped that someone would search the internet and find AMA or drug company funded studies to show there were dangers or to show there were no benifits.
After all, they are the ones that stand to lose money if people are healthier. The reason I assumed such would show up is that the simple matter of adding oxygen to water threatens their money-making schemes. But all I've seen is innuendo, insult, defamation, and most of the other tactics used to discredit an idea not shared or investigated by others, or perhaps detrimental to their income stream or their reputation as "experts".
But now we have some show up to even complain about how long the thread is. And I laugh because it is such a simple thing, adding oxygen (not ozone, not hydrogen peroxide, not bleach) to water, whether distilled, tap, well, etc. And with such large quantities of water being bought at the store, including Penta Water, the assumption must be that these are not dangerous to your health or for sure the AMA would have shut them down years ago. I mean, even Coke and Pepsi have water products that add oxygen and you can't get any more main stream than that. The question only is how much oxygen in water is good for you and the mecidal doctors I've talked to say more is always better. So I've showed people how they can make their own and have it saturated when they drink it (75ppm) and, if they don't want to make it themselves they can buy it in the store at 40-50 ppm (Penta Water).
It sort of reminds me of Grace Bliss recommending seven grain bread rather than white bread back in the 60's. My only complaint about that recommendation was that it was so difficult to get seven grain bread. I sure didn't like some people at the time telling me that I would die if I ate white bread, and so my response was that if they furnished me with seven grain bread I would surely prefer it over white bread, becaue I did.
But those were the days before the "mainsteam" grocery stores even thought about having "natural" products on their shelves. Just the other day I thought about Grace when I picked up a loaf of fourteen grain bread at the supermarket. Bless her heart!
But whether you're an athiest or not, I rather suspect you really do care about people and their health and so I'll tell you my current "grand plan", namely to get a job with either the government or Penta Water or the like and head off to Bagdad to set up a plant to make oxygenated water. That part of the world has a serious problem with low oxygen levels in their water and it affects lots of things, causing a bad attitude among other ill health issues. (the brain does take 20% of the oxygen we consume daily in spite of the fact that it is only 3% of our body weight).
So about all I can say to you is, "Try it, you'll like it".
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Cowgirl
I may be opening up a whole can of worms, but I think something worth considering that plays a huge part in the overall health of an invidual (more than the water debate) is the "PH balance in a person's body......acidic versus akaline." I have read many articles over the years on this subject and found it to be very interesting and also very enlightening!
I would love to hear people's thoughts on this!
Cowgirl
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Linda Z
David said:
I was just thinking about this last week. I saw a commercial from one of the major cereal makers stating that their cereals were going to be made from whole grains.
I thought when I heard that commercial, God bless Grace B. and Eleanor W. and all the others like them, both in and out of twi, who fought so hard to raise awareness of what really consitutes good nutrition. It took many years (Grace wasn't the first proponent of healthy eating, of course) for that awareness to increase to the point that consumers started demanding healthier choices. But by golly, it happened.
In fact, that commercial triggered quite a discussion between my son and me, about just what you've said, David. It used to be hard to find whole-grain anything outside a health-food store, where prices were high because of limited demand. And I heard many people say that growing food organically was a lot of hooey.
Perhaps superoxygenated water will be a readily available (and cheaper) product years down the road after more people look into it and more people realize benefits from it. Maybe not. Maybe it will turn out to offer no real benefit but better-tasting water. But we won't know until we know.
Maybe someone will find a way to improve it down the road, but discovery/investigation of anything new has to start somewhere. Maybe someone will prove that it's just "bunk," but they haven't yet--not to my satisfaction as a person who has to read clinical and scientific studies regularly in my work.
I've read that other medical people thought Pasteur was off his nut when he suggested that using sterile instruments and good hand-washing practices just might cause fewer people to die after surgery.
Thank you, SirGuess and Krys, for your posts, and you too, David. One can simply read them and decide what they want to consider. I'd thank the naysayers, too, if they'd said, "Well, what about this?" or "Have you considered that?" instead of "You're selling snake oil" or "That's just bunk" or the other pronouncements that have been made in this thread.
And it's been stated before, and I'll state it again. David isn't selling anything. He's not selling water. He's not selling the equipment to make this water. He came here with an idea to share. I commend him for sticking around after the rocks started flying.
And as for Goey's comment way back early in the thread about my lack of objectivity: You could be right. If I'm biased, it stems from the fact that (1) I know David and know what a kind and helpful person he is and (2) that I've seen people in this thread pile onto many other people in the past several years in much the same way they did in this one. Guardians of the freekin' truth. Right.
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krys
You're right about the long view of history, Linda.
There was a physician who delivered babies at London's Women's Hospital (in the 1860's). Women flocked to him and his hospital for childbirth. His name was Simmelweiss and he was the one who insisted that all hospital personnel wash hands thoroughly between attending patients. That was one of the most important things to end the scourge of pregnancy and delivery, childbed fever...which newly delivered mothers rarely survived!
He had plenty of flak to stand against as other physians and hospitals threw whatever they could at him because of all the monies they were losing. Very few people knew or understood about the germ theory of disease, or why diseases spread at that time, it was anecdotal evidence to them. They just knew that it worked.
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GarthP2000
Linda,
And what would a real 'gaurdian of the freekin' truth do in this case, hmmm? As tho' being gaurdians was the main motivation of us 'ungodly nay-sayers'?. Yah! Right!
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Have you read *and considered* the details of what Raf, Goey, et al has posted in their alledged 'piling on' on David? Oh, and notice that the emotion-o-meter jumped ONLY when David pulled his shake the finger approach at us nay-sayers. And wasn't my 1st post here regarding that tactic, instead of the oxygenation theory itself? But I tell you what. Forget my posts, which you never took a liking to anyway. Ok, I can live with that.
But why not consider Raf's, Zix's, and Goey's posts in detail, like I suggested? They go well beyond and above the "Your post *sux*" attitude; yes they do. Both sides do have valid information to consider, but, as kindly and helpful as David undoubtadly is, his condescending dismissing of the 'nay-sayers' does NOT help, and it just contributed to the 'piling on', as it were. Plus he shoulda realized that the 'take it by faith' admonition didn't, and won't work here, in a message board filled with people who has experienced that same attitude in TWI, and whom I would be willing to bet *ain't* gonna put up with that again.
So, uhh, yeah Dave, we're gonna ask for proof, pain-in-the-assets as that is gonna be. And no, I for one, see no reason why I should take your word as superior, by default, to the A.M.A., or even to the FEDGOV, regardless of your experiences with them.
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