Last night on the sports news there was a report of Terrill Owens, wide receiver for the Philidelphia Eagles, getting smashed up badly on Sunday and they said he would probably be out for most of the playoffs. They continued by saying that he had assured his teammates he would do everything he could to be ready as soon as possible and to that end was going to install a hyperbaric chamber in his living room so he would heal up faster.
So I guess that HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen therapy)is a cat fairly out of the bag these days. Actually, I think that the field of sports medicine has pushed the envelope of treatments that work far beyond where they would have gone if left to the AMA and traditional doctors.
As a case in point, this past September I was helping my neighbor, an engineer like myself, put a new bridge across the river to his house and he slipped while carrying a 2 by 6 and smashed the tip of his finger, almost cutting it completely off. I drove him to the hospital and it turned out the guy who stitched him up was a former engineering student who tripped over a few courses and so went into medicine. Anyway, we all had engineering in common and so the conversation turned to oxygenated water.
The doctor said, "Now if only we could find something so simple to take away pain" and I replied that I thought all pain was probably no more than that part of the body screaming at us was saying "give me more oxygen!" An amazed look came across his face as he said, "My God, you could be right!"
As he gave my neighbor instructions on how to care for the finger he finally said, "And drink some of Dave's water." After he left my neighbor said something to the effect that his estimation of what I'd been trying to tell him for a year had taken a quantum leap due to the doctors response to my information. Let's see, neither he nor the doctor had made it all the way through engineering school and I did. But the guy had a blue frock on and stitched up his finger and so obviously he knew much more than I did! Ah, I just get no respect!
Anyway, a week later he had an appointment with his regular doctor and I suggested he ask him if hyperbaric treatment could be had for his throbbing finger. So he did. But his doctor dismissed the idea as ludicrous for such a trivial problem and said it would cost far too much. Easy for him to say, he wasn't the one with the painful finger!
Had I known about the Get Well Center in Mansfield and the hyperbaric chamber there at the time, no doubt my neighbor would have driven down there in a heartbeat and paid out of his own pocket the $150 they charge for a treatment. He's the plant engineer at a local plant and so, unlike me, he has a job.
And so the average doctor sends you home with pills to ease the pain and figures "Mother Nature" will do her thing. But sports doctors are into anything and everything that will help speed up the process of healing- because elete athletes these days are paid great deals of money to preform and the folks that pay them sure don't want them sitting on the sidelines waiting on Mother Nature if they can help it.
Now if only they knew that oxygen saturated water was hyperbarics in a bottle, there wouldn't be a Mellenium Cooler left to be bought for $1600! All you millionares reading this, please think about me this Christmas and send me some Mellenium Cooler stock. I do need to start thinking about my retirement fund one of these days. Right now all my wealth is stored where moths can't corrupt nor thieves break through and steal. I'm OK with that, but sometimes, like now, it's difficult for me to get there and make a withdrawal. But then I'm in as good a health as I've ever been so who's thinking about retiring? (But a job would be nice for a change- especially if it was on a farm with thoroughbred runners in some nice warm climate. I don't ride, but the horses seem to like me and I think they're about as fine an animal as ever was created. I even have a hydrotherapy unit for horses that I built that I can bring with me, and, of course, oxygenated water.)
And next time we'll talk about PRESSURE as oxygen goes in the body, travels down the pressure gradient and finally gets used by those little power plants in each cell called mitochondria.
Eccl.1:7, "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again."
That's what the Preacher said circa 1000 BC. And since that Preacher was also a King in Jerusalem and a son of David, why it's fair to say he was none other than King Solomon. Imagine that, a King and also a Preacher!
So this preacher knew (as did everyone else) that all the rivers run to the sea. They probably also had a suspicion that the sea was not filling up- at least they never saw it rise much in their lifetimes.
But they'd probably never thought about the very water in the rivers somehow returning to the rivers again until Solomon suggested they think about it.
For all I know, Solomon might have been well trained in higher mathmatics, physics, chemistry, and even had a Keenan & Keyes, "Thermodynamic Properties of Steam", on his desk (that's the engineers "Bible" for all matters related to ice, water and steam; boiling points, melting points, vapor pressures, heats of vaporization and heats of fusion, enthalpy, entropy, etc.)
Anyway, it's a very obvious fact that water runs down hill if left to it's own devices. Always has, always will. If you want it to go up hill you're going to have to pay for the privilege, one way or another. There is no guesswork about it, only a dickering over the price you are willing to pay for the privilege.
Or, you can wait for the sun to heat up the sea, vaporize some water, let the vapor float high enough until it freezes and floats back down as snow on the mountain tops, or gets cold enough to gather around the campfire of a dust particle and become a rain drop, and so enter the river at a lower point than otherwise. But other than that, you are going to have to pay, one way or another, to get water from a lower level to a higher level.
The same principle applies to pressure and applies to heat. Pressure is going to flow from a higher pressure to a lower pressure and heat is going to flow from a higher temperature to a lower temperature- unless you put some energy into the system to make it do the opposite. That means you have to pay. There is no free lunch when it comes to the laws that govern the physical world. You play, you pay.
So let's assume you did your homework and are now an oxygen atom, and have had enough experience to know that it's not always fun being an oxygen atom. Sometimes you float around in the air with 8 nitrogen bullies around to hastle you for every kindred spirit that comes along (another oxygen atom) to talk to.
You soon learn to team up with another oxygen atom to better defend yourselves. You also learn that two's company, three's a crowd and so it's unlikely you stay as ozone, O3, very long. You also learn not to join up with a another oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms and become H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) because it also is no fun, struggling with your buddy over too few hydrogens to go around properly. Both O3 and H2O2 are toxic, although the latter works great to disinfect wounds.
So you become an O2 molecule. But then you find that all those dirty, rotten nitrogen atoms also teamed up to do you in. Actually they did so because you had become the bully and they were just protecting themselves- and maybe wanting a little social life of their own.
So it ends up a Mexican Stand-off between oxygen molecules and nitrogen molecules- one against four. Four cheep bullies against one very desirable, brilliant, beautiful, healthy you.
Then one day you get too close to a person's mouth or nose. Nature abhors a vacuum and so you're sucked into the vortex of a veritable wind tunnel. You see, man cannot live without you for much more than a minute and so his predator capacities are quite astounding. He's willing to expend the energy to expand his diaphram and create a negative pressure and allow in four of those rotten nitrogen molecules just to get to you!
So down the hatch you go. If you were at sea level before being caught, you enjoyed a partial pressure of (21% of 760 mm Hg=160 mm Hg) 160 millimeters of mercury (or 21% of 14.7 psia=3.09 psia; same thing, different units of measure).
But you got sucked into that vortex and by the time you see all that water in the lungs (the lungs are 90% water) the pressure around you has gone down to 105 mm Hg- if you're lucky!
So you've already lost about a third of the pressure you enjoyed outside and you haven't even begun the torturous journey you're about to go on.
So you get grabbed by the water, swim around a little, squeeze through the water/blood membrane, swim around a little more, squeeze your way through the membrane of a red blood cell, swim around a little more and finally get gobbled up by the biggest molecule you've ever seen, a hemoglobin molecule (molecular weight about 80,000- compared to your molecular weight of 32- you are no match for that monster!)
So you are trapped inside this PacMan like critter and can't get out. And you find that the pressure around you has gone to hell in a handbasket. Unknown to you, the red blood cell has meanwhile traveled through the artery system to some unknown place in the little toe where it, and you, expereince a great squeezing going on as this big fat pig called a Red Blood Cell tries to get through a tiny tube called a capillary.
The pressure causes the hemoglobin molecule (itself a big pig inside an even bigger pig) to open up and so you make your escape, back into the water inside Big Red, through Big Red's skin, and now you find the oxygen pressure around you (all your buddies that you'd given up hope of ever seeing again) is now only 39 mmHg. Hemoglobin can't do better than that!
So you keep swimming, squeeze through the capillary's "skin" and into the intercellular fluid (called interstitial fluid by those who care). The water you're in now is part of the lymph system that surrounds each cell, and it, along with all the water you've been in up to this point in your travels, is only 1/3 of the water in the body. The other two thirds is inside all those cells that are just waiting for you to arrive.
So finally you arrive at a bonifide "breathing" cell (it's called cellular respiration in case you didn't know) and it's looking for you just as badly as the nose and mouth was- which started this whole trip to begin with! Only now, the oxygen pressure around you is down to around 30 mmHg, and by the time you get through the cell wall, swim (or get carried by myoglobin- the cells counter part of hemoglobin in the blood system) to the power plant that is drawing you in, why the oxygen partial pressure is going to be only 5 mmHg. But that's enough to get you there and keep the cell alive at the same time.
If the oxygen partial pressure at the enterance to the mitochondria power plant is zero, that cell doesn't need you any more because it's dead. Bye, bye cell, hello recycling plant! (that's all the goodies in the lymph system that tear down the house, save the lumber, the copper plumbing and wiring, and anything else that isn't so old and decreped that the body says, "get rid of it!")
So now you're invited into the power plant and before you know it some hydrocarbon comes along, you both explode together, and you find yourself inextricably tied to some stinking carbon atom and are now called carbon dioxide, or if you're lucky, you get saddled with a couple of hydrogen atoms and become a Mickey Mouse character and live happily ever after.
Suffice it to say that weither you're CO2 or H2O, the cell wants to get rid of you. So one way or another you ultimately find yourself back in the atmosphere and ready for another trip, maybe to a tree or some corn, or a leaf, or something, so you can get back to being a happy camper again as a bonifide oxygen molecule.
But here's the punch line to all this. If you're an oxygen molecule that gets into highly oxygenated water because someone went to the trouble, and cost, to put you there, now you and your buddies can get right next to that cell that is dying because nobody took care of it and the red blood cells aren't as young as they used to be, and the lungs don't function like they used to, and the heart doesn't function like it used to, and so you bypass all that and go directly into the lymph system from the small intestine and arrive at the cell wall close to 760 mmHg instead of 30 mmHg. All those cells are going to love you for showing up with so much energy.
All of a sudden those power plants that were spewing out untold trash on their way to being shut down by the EPA, have their alarms go off so everyone knows "Oxygen has arrived, Oxygen has arrived! Everyone to your stations, Oxygen has arrived."
And the oxygenated water that gets into the Portal vein rather than the lymph system (about a third of it) will set off similar alarms and all the cells in the circulatory system, red blood cells, white blood cells, lungs, heart muscle, etc. will rejoice to no longer be starved for oxygen.
Maybe to help out the critics a little, who say it's preposterous that so little oxygen as contained in water could make any difference at all, I should compare Oxygenated water to starter fluid for a car on a cold winter's day. The starter fluid doesn't get you very far down the road, but it sure beats waiting for the tow truck!
Hello Song. Yes, it is a cryptic message. Decyphered it reads, "Please send me your gasoline credit card and an invite to stay the winter at your place in Florida". (assuming you're rich if not famous to boot).
Actually, your hometown location, A1A Florida, must be some kind of cryptic message as well since, when I looked it up in my Atlas, those coordinates seem to be near Donalsonville, Georgia and not even in Florida! Ah, this might qualify for a look by Homeland Security! Who knows, Osama might be one of those oxygen molecules floating around- at least he's about 2/3's oxygen like the rest of us- the perfect disguise!
Thanks Excathy. It's good to know someone cares because I'm definately not getting any respect from the weather around here these days.
My neighbor thought he'd plow the parking lot out front for me yesterday but the snow was to deep and heavy, and his four wheel drive pickup was no match for it. So he flagged down a big snowplow (a buddy of his was driving it) to make a couple of passes and so maybe we'll do better today.
The ominous thing was he told me the former owner used to shovel off the roof of the shop and attached pavilion when the snow got this deep. Imagine that, at 61 I'm considering shoveling off a roof!!!
When I was a kid, I used to look forward to snow because I could make a killing with a snow shovel. The shovel cost two bucks, was taller than I was, and there wasn't a little old lady in the neighborhood that wouldn't let me at least shovel her walk with my new shovel (which brought in fifty cents). And if she wanted me to shovel the whole drive, why my pockets were taxed just trying to stuff all that money in them!
But shoveling roofs? That's a concept I'd never heard before yesterday. I don't even want to do mine, let alone entertain the idea that I could make money at it walking up and down the street in search of...little young ladies in need of a hand with a shovel (all the little old ladies are gone because I'm now the little old man!)
Sometimes I just don't like it that God is no respector of persons and the rain falls on the just and the unjust- as does the snow. Just once I'd like it to snow everywhere else but on my place this Winter. Hey, that would be a Wierwillian "snow in July" in reverse! Why everyone would send me their gasoline credit cards to get me to Florida. I'd be a bonifide MOG! Ah, but then I wouldn't need to get to Florida would I?
Merry Christmas- ho, ho, ho! Maybe some reindeer will plow my snow.
And here we go again. This is quite a place you have here Paw. I thought by now you would surely have kicked me out for belaboring a suject that most folks don't even think exists let alone have an interest in. Far easier to dismiss it with a "you'll only burp" or maybe some comment from quackwatch.com or taking your doctors word for it that low plasma oxygen is not your problem.
But I see that the viewer number keeps going up each day so apparently some folks are reading this stuff. Maybe they're all looking to catch me in a lie, but if that's so, that's a good thing too! If nothing else, their silence ratifies what i've said.
Anyway, after a year and a half of being intreagued with the subject of highly oxygenated water, I have about eight notebooks full of notes on the subject that are just crying to be put into some kind of order and I don't know how to do that other than to talk about it and see if anything rings a bell with anyone other than me or it I've made any glaring errors.
Along the way a good number of articles, published in medical journals, have been absorbed and it is one of the reasons why I have absolutely no doubt that most of the medical profession is filled with people who aren't scientists at all. They are merely pretenders to being objective observers of scientific laws and principles.
Instead of citing Newton's laws, or Boyle's law, or Charles' law or Henry's law, or the laws governing diffusion, chemical reaction, and various energy transformation laws, they settle for double blind, cross-over tests and then use statistical analysis to "prove" their case.
The trouble is that statistical analysis can never show cause and effect by it's very nature. It was invented to examine games of chance and determine the probability of winning or losing money on the flip of a coin or the roll of the dice.
Ah, but along comes medicine and refines the process with "p numbers". And for those of you that don't know what p numbers are, you'll usually see them in double blind, crossover tests as p.05, etc.
I ventured to object to the use of p numbers on Horsescience and, as you can imagine, I was roundly criticized for daring to object. One vet went so far as to publish a link to a site that defined p numbers as "an estimate that the probability of a hypothesis being true was correct." I replied, after looking up the link, "Yep, a guess of a guess of a guess- third order guesswork." Oh, the vets, MD's and "owner" of the site hated that one! (probably the underlying reason the "owner" had to dispatch with me sooner or later- that and, horror of horrors, I thought evolution was also mostly nonsense and had no problem with Genesis whatsoever.
So these medical "researchers" give an appearance of validity to their work by, in essence, saying, "We're more than 95% sure that what we've come up with is true." If an engineer or archetect tryed to pass off a building with "I'm 95% sure this building will not explode or collapse" you can imagine what the people that put up the money to build the building would do!
And yet we put pills in our mouth and swallow them merely because a doctor told us to, based on nothing other than p number pseudoscience. And the devotees of this kind of sloppiness insist that double blind, crossover tests be done on anything and everything before they will admit it has any validity at all. To them all other evidence is worthless and worthy only of contempt, including personal testimony of something good but not approved by the AMA.
I'm the first to admit there are fine, knowledgable, honorable medical doctors in the world. But my guess is that they folow my ten percent rule (ie. only 10% of any given populaton is firing on all cylinders at any given time- the rest are along for the ride.)
In fact, for a long time I've bemoaned having been taught by my mother that 99 out of 100 folks are decent folks. That's not my experience over the past 61 years. And so I've been constantly dissapointed. Now had she taught me that I'd be lucky to find one in a hundred that was honorable, why I would have been much more suspicious but far less dissapointed. In fact I would have been downright tickled because not only would I have found one out of a hundred, I'd have found ten! (sometimes maybe even twenty if I was really lucky! p>.05))
Anyway, the post about an oxygen molecule getting into the body and traveling around is not dependent on p numbers. It depends only on known laws, namely that things will go from a high pressure to a lower pressure if left to their own devices, and such known things as gas solubilites in water, how pumps work, and how diffusion works.
Ah, and now back out into the subzero temperatures around here.
On a program called Frontline tonight there was a documentary about alternative medicine vs. the National Institute of Health and the politics of the health care industry. Seems Congress funded the NIH ten or twelve years ago to investigate alternative medicine and predictably they did little or nothing.
But then they did a survey of how many people used alternative therapy of one sort or another without telling their doctors and they were amazed to find it was at least a third of the population. Oops, looks like their monopoly is going to hell in a handbasket!
Anyway, it was interesting and hopefully some others that visit here can give their input. The fact remains that the average person needs three pounds of food a day, three pounds of water, and six pounds of oxygen.
We can investigate foods, drugs, pills, vitimins, herbs, etc. until we are blue in the face- there are no end of them. I have nothing against them except for the impossibility of even investigating all of them, let alone trying to categorize, rank, and prioritize them.
I can't tell you how many times people have come by proportedly to find out about oxygenated water when in fact they want to sell me some natural food, some juice, some schedule for coffee enemas, some dietary supliment, etc. and think that oxygenated water is just one more in a long line of stuff you'll find at your "food" store. But water is not food and oxygen is not food. They are the other two of the Big Three!
Then we have the "food and drug" distinction, as if drugs are not food, when in fact they are- unknown, black box, kind of food that you take "on faith"- not faith in God but faith in your doctor. And because they've made a distinction between food and drugs, artficial as it is, they can charge outrageous prices and get away with it.
3 pounds of food, 3 pounds of water, 6 pounds of oxygen. That's what you need each day. I'll let the millions of other folks that are into foods and drugs tell you about food. It's way to complicated a subject for me. But all those foods and drugs have to react with one thing, oxygen- and they have to do so in a water solution.
Just like the hundreds of grades and trade names of gasoline, there's not one food or drug that will do you any good unless it has some oxygen around to combine with and so release energy. O2 and H2O are pretty simple molecules. Food and drug molecules are hundreds and thousands of times bigger, not to mention that they come in helixes, coils, long chains, short chains, amine groups, sulfa groups, phosphate groups, acids, bases, aromatics, you name it. But by far the major constituent of them all is carbon atoms and hydrogen atoms. And so the simple reaction of hydrocarbon + oxygen yields carbon dioxide + water + energy applies. Starve that equation of oxygen and you die. Maybe you get cancer first and then die, but die you surely will. No oxygen, no life! And if you don't get rid of the water and carbon dioxide produced by that reaction you will also die. Granted that if you don't eat any food for long enough you will also die, but that is not likely for most. I can't remember when the last person was in America that was reported to have died of starvation. Most have store up enough in their bodies to not only save for a rainy day, but save for a rainly year.
But outside the heart and the skelital muscles, the body has no capacity to store up significant oxygen for a rainy day- or a rainy minute.
I have it on good authority that after coming out of a hyperbaric chamber a person can hold their breath for 6 minutes and can be kept alive in a hyperbaric chamber with no hemoglobin function at all. But absent a hyperbaric chamber, we're lucky if we can hold our breath for even one minute.
But alas, highly oxygenated water was not one of the alternative therapies mentioned on the show tonight. Maybe they were saving the best for last and ran out of time- like preachers that never quite get to the scripture on Sunday morning.
this might sound strange, but it might also interest you. i've learned and experienced and trained myself, using a variety of techniques, that if i sit (not s.i.t.) undisturbed and work at it for about a half hour or so, i can get into this comfortable circular breathing rhythm that takes at least 3 minutes to cycle thru a single full body/mind breath.
tho, i must say again, this kinda stuff is kinda like the red pill in "The Matrix."
there are observable inner and outer transformative effects from breathwork.
if you pursue it, you'll most likely never be the same again,
mostly, cuz its not just another translation of "spirit."
its more like an actual activation/praxis.
which takes discipline to do it well.
like playin with fire and wind.
wise & harmless.
:)-->
imo, its part of why S.I.T. had at least slight transformative effects on some...
to exhale (as mere speech) for such a prolonged period can't not affect the character of one's "pnuema hagion." like how monks chant their long-a$$ vibrating oyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys, or whatever.
I did some reading and I found "Oxygen toxicity". Specifically "Pulmonary OT" and "CNS-OT".
'Pulmonary OT' is when someone is exposed to high oxygen atmospheres for longer than 12 hours.
'CNS-OT' [Central Nervous System] is is when someone is exposed to high-oxygen high-pressure atmospheres. A chart I found said that as the pressure of high-oxygen atmospheres is raised the danger of toxicity is increased. While breathing 100% oxygen at one atmosphere can be done forever, but 2 atmospheres would kill you quick. They even presented a chart for divers using pure oxygen, to know according to how high the pressure of the system, how long you can safely breath it.
1.6 ATA = 45 minutes
1.5 ATA = 120 min
1.4 ATA = 150 min
1.3 ATA = 180 min
Question? Yes I did say I had a question. I am getting there.
I then did a search for Hyperbaric Oxygen chambers and I read more. Hyperbaric Oxygen treatment Centers normally 100% oxygen at 2.0 - 2.4 ATA, for 40 minutes to 1.5 hours.
Todd, your experience of being able to breath in 3 minute cycles amazes me. Sure wish I would have known how to do that when I was a kid. I would have won every one of our Hold Your Breath contests! I haven't seen the Matrix and so don't know what the red pill is. I suspect it's a bad thing rather than a good thing and so it's probably good that I didn't know about a 3 minute breathing cycle when I was a kid or i'd be dead.
Galen, I think the problem is the same one I had early on in college. When doing exam problems I'd forget that I had to use absolute pressures and temperatures rather than gauge pressures and Farenheit or Centigrade temperatures, and so got more than one problem wrong on account of it.
So when I read 1 ATA I assume it means one atmosphere absolute. But the authors could well have confused absolute pressure with gauge pressure. Not saying they did, but it's one possibility.
For example, a tire pressure gauge (Borden tube type) reads zero when sitting on the work bench. That's zero gauge pressure. But it is actually measuring one atmosphere of pressure or 14.7 psia (pounds per square inch absolute) because that's the pressure of the atmosphere. So zero psig = 14.7 psia = 1 ATA (atmosphere absolute). I don't know as i've seen a designation in hyperbaric literature of ATG (for atmosphere guage) and so suspect that it's a serious confusion issue with lots of folks.
So let's take my tire gauge example a little further. The gauge reads zero sitting on the bench because it is calibrated to read zero when the outside pressure pushing on the coiled tube (the guts of the guage- the Borden tube) is the same as the inside pressure of the tube. You then put the gauge on the tire and now the inside pressure is the same as the pressure inside the tire instead of the same as atmospheric pressure. Let's say it reads 32 psi. That's 32 psi greater than the pressure outside the gauge and the tire, which, if at sea level, will be 14.7 psia. So the absolute pressure of the air in the tire is 32 +14.7 =46.7 psia. To prove it, just put the tire and gage into a Saturn Rocket and read the gauge when it is miles above the earth, where the atmospheric pressure is zero. It will read 46.7 and not 32 (zero pressure outside the tube and 32 psi plus 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure on the inside- the number of gas molecules didn't change inside the tire.
Likewise, if you take the tire, with gauge attached, and submerse it in water to a depth of about 34 feet, now the guage will read 32 - 14.7 = 17.3 psig because you are one atmospheres worth of pressure above that which exists at sea level. A 34 foot column of water is now pressing down on you, the tire and the outside of the gauge, in addition to the pressure of the atmosphere, but the number of molecules inside the tire and gauge hasn't changed. And so the pressure on the outside of the gauge is 14.7 psi higher than it was at sea level and so the hollow coil that straightens as the pressure inside the coil increases, will now want to coil up again due to the increased pressure outside of it.
If you were to take the tire and gauge down to about 80 feet deep in water, the gauge will read zero and after that you'll ruin the gauge because it will start to collapse. But I'm talking about simple gauges that are commonly found on boilers or pressure cookers, or oxygen tanks- round dial ones, not the myriad of other types that work on a different principle.
Anyway, hope that wasn't clear as mud!
But a second possibility is that 100% oxygen isn't generally used in hyperbaric chambers. Evidently the lungs have a specialized tissue in them not found elsewhere in the body and pure oxygen can do damage to them if exposed to it for 24 hours straight (or maybe 12 hours straight- depending on who you read). I assume medical grade oxygen is only 95% oxygen and 5% water for this very reason. (and therefore they can charge much more money for it and it generally requires a doctors prescription- same oxygen, different packaging and marketing).
So this problem is solved by using an oxygen generator rather than a welding grade oxygen bottle for the portable home chambers that are on the market these days.
These chambers only go up to 4 psig or .27 atmospheres guage (1.27 atmospheres absolute) and are pressurized using air from the room so that the person in the chamber has air around him but oxygen going up his nose. The oxygen generator only produces 90% oxygen, although I'm told they can go up to 95% oxygen for the high priced models.
So the tube that pressurizes the chamber comes from an oilless air compressor and a much smaller tube delivers the oxygen to the nose from the oxygen generator outside the chamber.
There's another advantage to using an oxygen generator as opposed to an oxygen bottle. If an oxygen bottle is left in the room- say someone's living room, and the valve is not tightly turned off when not in use, over time the room will fill with oxygen. So far, no problem. Anybody in the room will just feel better because they are getting more oxygen.
But let's say the person in the room is reading the newspaper while smoking a cigarette and some hot ash falls on the newspaper. Normally that's not a problem, just a burn hole in the newspaper. But with 100% oxygen in the room(five times the normal amount) the newspaper now says, "I'll get you, you dirty rat, for daring to burn a hole in me", and it bursts into flame in a hurry and the person panics, throws the newspaper on the floor, which also now has five times as much oxygen as normal to help it burn, and before long the house goes up in flames and everything in it, including the person reading the newspaper. That's why it's a fire hazzard. It doesn't burn itself, but it sure supports combustion. (Which is why I figure they aught to put oxygen generators on cars- except that the amount of oxygen used in a car might require an oxygen generator as big as the car and as costly. But it sure would increase gas milage and eliminate NOx gasses and carbon monoxide gasses).
On the other hand, if you leave an oxygen generator on when not in use, it will merely take oxygen from the air and put it right back into the air and so there is no oxygen buildup in the room.
Other than that, I have no answers for you Galen. But I'll surely keep it in mind until I have a better answer. I do know, from Dr. James at the Wolfson hyperbaric medical unit at the University of Dundee, in Stonewall, England, that hyperbaric chambers do take people up to 3 atmospheres or more absolute and can keep them alive even though they have no hemoglobin function- provided they can get the plasma oxygen level up to 30 ppm.
But you bring up an excellent point about varying pressures, oxygen concentrations and time in a chamber. No doubt the navy's of the world know what is best for what set of conditions, but I am still way to much a novice to know those fine points of hyperbaric treatment. I'm still getting over the fact that FEDGOV has hid from us it's evedently effective use for stroke victims simply because they'd live longer and therefore collect social security longer.
By the way, I read today that adult seals can stay under water for 30 minutes without coming up for air, and the Weddell Seal can dive in excess of 1000 feet in search of food. That's a pressure of almost 30 atmospheres.
I guess Dr. Barrett, MD, the guy who thought oxygenated water was silly and figured people would have to have gills to get any good from it, didn't consider seals and like warm blooded creatures that live in water a lot. Seems that they have lots of myoglobin everywhere in their bodies and therefore can store up to 5 times as much oxygen as we can. It's myoglobin that gives red meat it's color- and red meat is muscle.
I'd say there was a good chance that horses would run better if all their myoglobin sites were filled with oxygen- which probably doesn't happen without highly oxygenated water or hyperbaric "oxygen doping". It may happen in very well trained race horses but "state of the art" in that "profession" is back in the dark ages and so $500 to put a horse in a hyperbaric chamber before a race is probably a good investment. In fact, the guy I talked with in Atlanta, Lance Brubaker, figured we could make a lot of money building hyperbaric chambers for horses, provided we could get some investors to get the project off the ground. There are only a few such chambers in existance today and there are a lot of race tracks.
But try to convince a horse trainer of anything. Cnances are he or she is back in the dark ages somewhere and will merely parrot Dr. Barrett's "won't work" dismissal. The Weddell Seal sure knows it works! In fact, seems that the majority of seals live were it's very cold- which means the water is maxed with oxygen.
But horse trainers in general will only take maybe five or ten years to act on the information discussed here, once they figure out that horses given "oxygen doping" are winning most all the purses- at which point they'll try to convince their owners that they are the first to discover this "new" thing.
One other piece of information for Krys if she's still reading. I measured the oxygen concentration of Rich and Marry Ann's water and it was as close to zero as my meter would read.
In fact it was the lowest of any water I've tested. I've been meaning to read up on BOD- biological oxygen demand, that is a major number of interest to EPA. Perhaps you could amplify what it means and how the measurement is taken.
When I read your post, I went looking for info which would help me find a reason for this contradictory information.
I couldn't! BUT I believe everything you've found about toxicity is reported for underwater divers. I am making a presumption, this is not borne out by anything I can find to substantiate it....I believe the toxicity arises from adding pressure to pressure. In other words, when they describe a pressure of "2" (whatever units) they are not including the pressure added to the entire system by the depth of the water...so the apparent pressure is greater than what is measured.
I know that temperature and pressure is important in all reactions. Sometimes we ignore it, because at normal temps at sea level there is no scale for correction. At higher elevations, there are even instructions on the back of a cake mix to adjust for altitude (or decreased pressure)
I also know that there are time when there is too much oxygen and it acts like a poison because it causes damage...i.e. premature infants....if they are too young in gestational age, and require too much oxygen via their lungs (which cannot yet efficiently obtain it for curculation)...they are prone to blindness.
The physiology of premature infants is so different from gestationally mature infants, that it takes experts to care for them. The human adult body does not have the adaptive variations which permit it to function at considerable depths (as other sea mammals).
Hyperbaric chambers don't appear to produce the same pressure effect as divers, and certainly not for such long periods of time.
I hope my ramblings here shed some light on this for you, Galen.
BOD or Biological/Biochemical Oxygen Demand is a measure of the health of a body of water.All the living organisms in a body of water require oxygen to live (even the plants) so if the supply of oxygen is compromised, so are the organisms which live in it.
It is measured indirectly by either inspecting the larvae of certain insects which live in it or by chemically determining the quantity of dissolved oxygen. We used to use cumbersome chemical titration and weird equation to measure it, and sometimes it was tough and grueling to find those wee buggers under a microscope. I believe there is now a meter which can do it quickly with a probe.
All ecosystems have a way to remove “trashâ€, dead organisms, in this case…this is called detritus. There are a number of creature which do this, but the final stage is done by bacteria. These bacteria also use oxygen.
It’s normal to have this decomposition occur in all healthy systems. It is only when this is out of control that it’s a problem.
The higher the BOD the more polluted the water. It is the oxygen that these bacteria are “demanding†which is being measured.
If a body of water is polluted with nitrates or phosphates, that will act like a fertilizer for these bacteria and they will grow rapidly producing very large numbers of themselves and use more and more of the dissolved oxygen….even to the point where those living critters cannot survive any longer and suffocate..
yeah, Dave. that 3 minute thing really is an extreme sport of breathwork. like mountain climbing or skydiving. for the record: 90% of good useful enlightening breathwork is not as intense or risky.
wow, krys. that is interesting, considering how our human bodies are also bodies within bodies within bodies of water.
i think as we (as individuals and bodies) continue to compare the workings of inner-individual biologies with the fields of outer ecologies, we will see more groovy insights. inner ecologies/outer collective biology (the world as one body/organism).
just as in the outer world, within each of us are ecosystems of vegetable matter, insect matter, wind, gas, rain, electricity, fire, mineral, crystal, etc...
lions and tigers and bears, oh my! ;)-->
heck, some cells even make vehicles for themselves. build and nations and armies and go to war. ;)-->
of course, if one wants to go back to the Biblios and re-read some of the allegoric references in light of this, as also somewhat literal again, but applying to the body/soul/spirit of the interior life...we might see less conflict over pie-in-the sky vagueries, and more nitty gritty and nuts and bolts wisdom.
the firmament between heaven and earth, it seems, is less than skin deep. like the mirror-skin of a lake, perhaps.
“When I read your post, I went looking for info which would help me find a reason for this contradictory information.â€
Thanks.
“I couldn't! BUT I believe everything you've found about toxicity is reported for underwater divers. I am making a presumption, this is not borne out by anything I can find to substantiate it....I believe the toxicity arises from adding pressure to pressure. In other words, when they describe a pressure of "2" (whatever units) they are not including the pressure added to the entire system by the depth of the water...so the apparent pressure is greater than what is measured.â€
I had thought of that, but they seem to go to lengths to explain that such is not so.
“The human adult body does not have the adaptive variations which permit it to function at considerable depths (as other sea mammals).â€
What?
Do you mean that human adults can not live for long terms in high-pressure environments? [said the spider to the fly :-)]
“Hyperbaric chambers don't appear to produce the same pressure effect as divers, and certainly not for such long periods of time.â€
Is that these chamber treatments are limited to 1 hour – 2 hours, yes.
“I hope my ramblings here shed some light on this for you, Galen.â€
Such is my hope as well.
Most of my direct experience in atmospheres that were man-controlled were low-oxygen atmospheres, and not high-oxygen.
"Galen, I think the problem is the same one I had early on in college. When doing exam problems I'd forget that I had to use absolute pressures and temperatures rather than gauge pressures and Farenheit or Centigrade temperatures, and so got more than one problem wrong on account of it."
hmm. I looked again and further.
I foudn that Hyperbaric O2 Treatment is defined as: O2 is given at 2.0 – 2.4 atm (or 1520 – 1800 mm Hg) [or 2.02 - 2.43 bar] [or 29.2 - 34.82 psi] for 40 – 60 minutes SID – BID.
Under Oxygen Toxicity I found:
Central nervous system oxygen toxicity: The NOAA Diving Manual recommends maximum single exposures of: 45 minutes at 1.6 bar [or 1.58 atm] [or 47.26 in Hg] [or 23.21 psi],
of 120 minutes at 1.5 bar [or 1.48 atm] [or 44.31 in Hg] [or 21.76 psi],
of 150 minutes at 1.4 bar [or 1.38 atm] [or 41.36 in Hg] [or 20.31 psi],
and of 180 minutes at 1.3 bar [or 1.28 atm] [or 38.40 in Hg] [or 18.86 psi].
and I found: Pulmonary oxygen toxicity is caused by exposure over 16 hours to partial pressures of 0.5 bar [or 0.49 atm] [or 14.77 in Hg] [or 7.25 psi] or more.
All from the NOAA which I thought was supposed to be some smart guys.
“The human adult body does not have the adaptive variations which permit it to function at considerable depths (as other sea mammals).â€
What?
Do you mean that human adults can not live for long terms in high-pressure environments? [said the spider to the fly :-)]
Yes, that's exactly right. Deep diving mammals have a way to change their circulation pattern.
It's called the "Diving Reflex" and withdraws blood from the extremities keeping circulation between the heart, lungs and brain paramount. Other biologicical functions shut down. And, as they run low on oxygen, their muscles do not cramp as ours do.
In addition, their chest cavities are compressable to withstand the extreme pressure.
Do you live in New England? I would enjoy getting you a tour onboard the NR-1. We took a 4-H group onboard recently, a great trip.
I am very familiar with how humans work on low-levels of O2, for months at a time [rarely below 10%, more routinely between 14% and 18%]. O2 percentage is not really the big problem rather CO2 is. Though I have never had to work long-term under high-pressure. Of which I am very thankful.
I have known men who do routinely work in high-pressure, not always as divers just bubbleheads. But you are right in that divers do it too. Deep-depth welders make good money and living in diving bells, making trips out into the water each shift for their work.
I had thought the reason for compressable organs was for animals that dont pressure-equalize. They dive deep and hold their breath while doing it.
People pressure-equalize, so whatever the pressure is outside of our body, it is the same on the inside of our body. The primary issue being dont de-pressurize quickly. I have been wet down to 400 feet, you just swim back up slowly, exhaling the whole trip [HO HO HO HO]. But that is why we dont need compressable organs, we pressure-equalize.
quote:I had thought the reason for compressable organs was for animals that dont pressure-equalize. They dive deep and hold their breath while doing it.
I think you misunderstood me. The deep diving mammals have their rib cages designed in such a way that the pressure can compress them. We cannot do that....we would be crushed at the depths these creatures go. Way beyond 400 feet.
Galen, when you worked at 15-18% oxygen, who monitored your blood oxygen concentration? I hope somebody did. What was the effective pressure you did operate under? What was the other gas/gasses?
"I had thought the reason for compressable organs was for animals that dont pressure-equalize. They dive deep and hold their breath while doing it."
"I think you misunderstood me. The deep diving mammals have their rib cages designed in such a way that the pressure can compress them. We cannot do that....we would be crushed at the depths these creatures go. Way beyond 400 feet."
I was just saying 400 feet presure as it is the deepest pressure that I have felt. Obviously men routinely go uhh deeper. Every boat I have lived on went deeper. Uh, "Greater than 400 feet" [wink wink].
So your saying that guys who work at deep depths dont really pressure-equalize? When you breath air at pressure, and move around the pressure inside your body is equal to the pressure outside your body. Why do you need to be chrushed? What part of you would be crushed? You can not crush your ribs, as your lungs are filled with every breath, with air at the same pressure as is on the outside of your body.
"Galen, when you worked at 15-18% oxygen, who monitored your blood oxygen concentration? I hope somebody did. What was the effective pressure you did operate under? What was the other gas/gasses?"
I long ago shredded my qual notes, sorry. Ask an IC-man, they monitor atmospheric gas levels, not ETs. My exposures to 400 feet have been short. Again most of my time underwater was spent at 1 to 1.5 atm.
The on-board doc no doubt 'monitored' us all, through behavioral study. So long as everything is running normal, we would only have a third of the crew up at any one time. During casultys or training drills when we expected the entire crew to be up and about, they would increase the O2 bleed and raise oxygen levels to the high 20's, just to get everyone alert and full of energy.
Normaly much more sleep is needed, and after 6-8 hours of work you really get to dragging. Usually it was hard to stay going for more than maybe 10 hours as you would just get really tired. 10 hours of sleep would always recharge us for another shift. A normal cycle of 6 hours on watch, 2 hours working maintenance, 10 hours sleep: pretty much made the normal 18 hour day for us.
A little lower oxygen helps limit fires, why waste it on the crew when you know that once a fire gets going, the whole place fills with smoke anyway and the O2 is wasted. Once we see smoke we all go onto EABs [Emergency Air Breathing Respirators, a system of 100 psi air in manifolds stationed every 8 feet through out the boat.] So nobody really cares if the fire gets starved of O2.
I got the impression that the most important thing in maintaining a man-made atmosphere is getting rid of all the CO2. Yes obviously breaking apart the Hydro-Carbons, Freons, and radical junk is important, but it is easy. The CO2 adds up quickly.
Additional notes on making your ow oxygenated water. (See Dave's 12/8/04 post for instructions)
It is really easy once you have the setup set up.
A friend who works with oxygen and other tanks assured me that the 3-foot high tank we have, if it lost it's cap and went out of control, would only fizz around the room, and that it's the bigger ones that would rocket across and go through walls etc. if the cap came off. That was reassuring to me.
I have been using glass bottles for my water, and it is much nicer, IMHO.
If I was going to sell "Pneuma Water" (Dave's name for the product), I would go with a top of the line bottling (wine bottles and a rubber stopper), and promo the "Pneuma Water" as "a sobering experience," since the added oxygen does help restore sanity after partying.
(Fred compared it to the whiff's of pure oxygen he and his military compatriots would inhale after a night of indulgence.)
Also I was thinking that the glass bottles, in addition to no plastic heebie jeebies, would also get the more delicate, high-class treatment of the wine section of the store, which I think such a product should have.
Ah, back at my favorite mom and pop resataurant these days. Looks like the conversation here has been quite lively as 2004 ran out of gas (and oxygen).
Since it's Sunday morning I'm reminded that I'm suposed to minister grace to the hearers (something I'm accused of not doing most of the time). So, to put the matter of oxygenated water in perspective, "it's not that which goeth into the mouth that defiles a man but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defiles a man", "a merry heart works like a medicine", "be not weary in well doing", "the Word of God is life to those who find it and health to all their flesh", "out of their bellies shall flow rivers of living waters", "knowledge puffs up but love builds up" and such come to mind and deflate my natural arrogance.
In a lot of respects, coming across the matter of oxygen in water is like coming across PFAL back in 1964-65 (whenever it was that my cousin John wanted to marry one of VP's daughters and found he had to take his class before he could get his approval!)
In the former case, it took the best part of two years from the time I first heard about PFAL until I actually sat through it the first time- and a trip through a windshield at 70 miles an hour (the car stopped I didn't) probably helped get my attention along the way.
In the latter case, seeing my best friend (and cousin, and godfather, and mom's best friend) collapse from lack of oxygen put the study and practice of adding oxygen to water on the front burner of my life.
In both cases, after due dilligence to investigate and apply what I'd learned, I figured everybody in the world would want to know this information- especially everyone I knew- and use it in their lives.
Oops, I sure was wrong about that! In the first case, I got a room at my former high school and soon had twenty of my high school and church friends say they would show up to take the class. When only four showed up I was so angry I couldn't help those present for anger at all the "goats" that didn't show up- a valuable lesson for me to learn how to handle (I'm still trying to learn that lesson), but very tough on those who "in good faith" showed up to learn something.
It seems that not much has changed in the intervening forty years, except that I know quite a bit more than I did then of the nefarious ways and means used to hide a good thing- usually it boils down to the opponents having lots more money than I do and having a vested interest in protecting their power base against encroachment by the potential of lots of folks not buying their products any more. Nothing new under the sun.
My experience over the years I was involved with twi, was that 9 out of 10 who took PFAL were never heard from again. Sure wish I had a crystal ball and could see how the information helped them over the last thirty years or so. I'm thinking they fared better than those who hopped on the band wagon and helped turn twi into a monster.
The reason I say that is because this was VPW's stated purpose. ie, "I don't want to control peoples lives or own property, I just think people should know what the word of God says so they can decide if they believe it or not." Those that took PFAL and headed down the road without looking back comply with that purpose to a tee. We all know what happened to those who stayed on, and on, and on.
Anyway, it's just been a month since I started this thread and I have no idea how many, if any, people actually made some oxygenated water for themselves and satisfied themselves it was a good thing to do on a continuing basis- like reading the Bible. Sure would be nice to see some confirmation that it actually was a good thing in practice.
So, since it is Sunday morning, maybe it's testimony time.
I started making and drinking "Pneuma Water" in June, 2003. That was before it was even given a name, just water saturated with oxygen as close to freezing as I could get it. I've mentioned the urine turning colorless, but other than that I didn't investigate how it might have helped me. I haven't needed to see a doctor my entire life except for broken bones, cuts and the like. I only drank the water in support of cousin Russ (under the nebulous assumption that if I drank it regularly he would as well.)
As summer went buy I drank a lot of it because I shoveled dirt and hauled it for a walkway we were making along the river bank here all summer long. I called it "working out at Ernie's gym". To me there is nothing in the world that tastes better than cold, highly oxygenated water- and I'd never been a water drinker in my life except when there was no coke or coffee around to drink.
By August or September I noticed one day while driving that I could turn my neck much farther than before, as one intersection at which I stopped frequently (that came into a road at a 45 degree angle) had previously required me to turn the car so as to increase the angle before making a right hand turn. Otherwise it was difficult for me to see the oncoming traffic. I'd forgotten to turn the car toward the center and marvelled that I could see the oncoming traffic without having done so.
By October it dawned on me that my cigarette stash was lasting far longer than normal (I get them from an Indian Reservation) and so discovered that whereas I'd smoked about three packs a day most of my adult life, I was down to one pack a day on average- and all without giving it a single thought or the slightest effort. I say that because I'm one of those recalcitrant smokers that is as likely to point out that many of the doo-gooders that warned me about dying of cancer over the past 50 years are now dead and I'm not, as I am to being kind to them.
But, it was a major discovery for me none-the-less, since the savings in cigarette expendatures more than offset the cost of oxygen for my oxygen bottle and the cost of distilling water- a bonifide profit center!
Sometime last winter I went over to a friends house that I hadn't seen in a year and after discussing oxygenated water he commented that all the liver spots on my forehead were gone. I'm not a very vain person (closer to a slob as far as personal appearance is concerned), and so was interested in his observation. When I got home and looked at my wrists and arms, sure enough many of the same kind of liver spots had either faded or vanished entirely.
It impressed me because I'd listened to "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" and learned that some 70 or more minerals were needed by the body and one or more of them, if missing in the diet, cause liver spots- inside and outside the body. Hmmm, I thought, if that is true then the systematic use of oxygenated water must help the body recover these minerals for reuse rather than dumping them out with the trash and the deficeit showing up as liver spots as we age.
I also noticed that my finger nails and toe nails, that had become like very rough wash boards (or riffles to any who might be inclined to panning gold), had smoothed out significantly- almost now to the point that I have to look hard to see them and can hardly feel them at all. Also, they are far less brittle as are my teeth.
So it's sort of like miracles, that one sees looking back over one's shoulder and never sees any looking straight ahead. I've probably forgotten the most dramatic effects on my life because the biggest miracles are usually the last seen even when one is looking for them.
All I really know is that I feel better, and stronger, and more alert, and less tired, than I have in years, and I take no pills- vitimins or otherwise, have no restricted diet (other than what the lack of money imposes on me) and still smoke.
Oops, I monopolized all the testimony time this morning! Sure hope some that have read this thread are willing to show up and tell us they've actually made some and are drinking it on a regular basis. If so, a month is probably to short a time to see much difference, but who knows.
"I also know that there are time when there is too much oxygen and it acts like a poison because it causes damage...i.e. premature infants....if they are too young in gestational age, and require too much oxygen via their lungs (which cannot yet efficiently obtain it for curculation)...they are prone to blindness."
Hello again Krys. I think the above was the common reason given since the fifties by some in the scientific community to justify discarding the use of hyperbaric chambers- or at least severely limit their use out of fear that untold damage could occur by it's use. But evidently the problem was the rate of decompression (like the bends) and subsequently the hyperbaric people found that if the premature baby was placed back in a hyperbaric chamber, pressurized and then depressurized slowly, that the blindness was reversable.
I forget now exactly where I read that, but it was a result of punching in "hyperbaric physiology" into my search engine- and is how I found that Dr. Philip James, in England, is one of the principal players in the hyperbaric game. He's the one I wrote to that said oxygenated water could cause no negative physiological effects. (or rather, there were no known negatives to drinking it).
I also found it interesting that he was on (or chaired) the UN Commission on Obesity which I found interesting since it brought to mind that their might be a relationship between this huge worldwide problem and a lack of oxygen in drinking water around the world.
Thanks for the BOD explaination. I take it then that BOD is basically the difference in the rate at which oxygen from the air is added to bodies of water and the rate at which it is used by the cridders in the water. In other words, if the Great Lakes (which contain one fifth of all the fresh water in the world) were composed only of distilled water, the Biological Oxygen Demand would be zero, regardless of the temperature of the water.
As an aside, dissolved oxygen meters commonly go up to only 20 parts per million. One of the companies that makes them, OxyGuard, has a portable one that now goes up to 50 ppm and their web site says that the sales of them have gone up dramatically in recent years due to the interest in oxygenated drinking water. As of a year or so ago they cost $700 new, but that might now be much higher since the Euro has gone up 60% relative to the dollar- thanks to Greenie and Bush and all their associates. They are to the economic world what the AMA is to the health world- sometimes inflation is the problem and then they say they need to inflate the money supply to solve the problem. How can one thing, inflation, be both the problem and the solution ? When I was visiting Rich in the hospital, the doctor said that oxygen was not his problem- but he was laying in bed with an oxygen tube up his nose at the time and so the doctors words were belied by his actions.
Anyway, I know about oxyguard because the guy I flew out to see in Portland in November, 2003 (he wanted to set up a company to make oxygenated water for horses) welshed on his promise to give me his Oxyguard so that I could do further testing, in exchange for flying out and showing him how to simply and economically make highly oxygenated water.
Since I didn't have the $700 to just go buy one, I made my own, and in the process met the North American Sales Manager for Sensorex, the company that makes most of the probes for all the d.o. meters around the world. (a $125 probe and a $3 multimeter does roughly the same thing as a fancy d.o. meter)
He told me the reason that most meters go up only to 20 ppm is because fish hatcheries oxygenated water to 20 ppm prior to shipping fish from hatcheries to the lakes or rivers where they are places. They do this to prevent the fish from dying of shock when introduced to a new habitat.
So at least the fish people know that adding oxygen to water is a good thing and not a bad thing. But I doubt that a fish hatchery is going to fund an AMA approved double blind, placibo, cross-over study to prove it, complete with p numbers so that everyone can know how good their guess of a guess of a guess is. (or their estimate that the probability of their assumption being true is). When all is said and done, the AMA and the National Institute of Health deal in no more than antidotal evidence- it just costs millions of dollars to get their evidence.
I have also yet to find anything on the internet that specifically deals with oxygen being a poison. Molecular oxygen gets confused with "oxygen free radicals", "reactive oxygen speces", and all kinds of innuendo. But it is not ozone, it is not hydrogen peroxide- which do form free radicals, it is not a free radical at all.
Seems amazing to me that something that the body needs every minute of the day could also be considered a poison. But then I heard of a person years ago that killed herself drinking too much water. She'd evidently heard that drinking lots of water was good and so she literally drowned herself drinking too much water. Surely that was much more than the three pounds a day (about a third of a gallon) the average person needs.
If I ran one of those reverse-osmosis pumps that extracts O2 from the air and fed that into my bedroom 24 hours a day, how much would I expect to increase the O2 content? [so that while sleeping I would breath an 'enriched' atmosphere]
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
72
106
68
48
Popular Days
Jan 29
30
Apr 26
21
Jan 18
17
Feb 9
16
Top Posters In This Topic
Raf 72 posts
David Anderson 106 posts
krys 68 posts
oldiesman 48 posts
Popular Days
Jan 29 2005
30 posts
Apr 26 2005
21 posts
Jan 18 2005
17 posts
Feb 9 2005
16 posts
David Anderson
Last night on the sports news there was a report of Terrill Owens, wide receiver for the Philidelphia Eagles, getting smashed up badly on Sunday and they said he would probably be out for most of the playoffs. They continued by saying that he had assured his teammates he would do everything he could to be ready as soon as possible and to that end was going to install a hyperbaric chamber in his living room so he would heal up faster.
So I guess that HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen therapy)is a cat fairly out of the bag these days. Actually, I think that the field of sports medicine has pushed the envelope of treatments that work far beyond where they would have gone if left to the AMA and traditional doctors.
As a case in point, this past September I was helping my neighbor, an engineer like myself, put a new bridge across the river to his house and he slipped while carrying a 2 by 6 and smashed the tip of his finger, almost cutting it completely off. I drove him to the hospital and it turned out the guy who stitched him up was a former engineering student who tripped over a few courses and so went into medicine. Anyway, we all had engineering in common and so the conversation turned to oxygenated water.
The doctor said, "Now if only we could find something so simple to take away pain" and I replied that I thought all pain was probably no more than that part of the body screaming at us was saying "give me more oxygen!" An amazed look came across his face as he said, "My God, you could be right!"
As he gave my neighbor instructions on how to care for the finger he finally said, "And drink some of Dave's water." After he left my neighbor said something to the effect that his estimation of what I'd been trying to tell him for a year had taken a quantum leap due to the doctors response to my information. Let's see, neither he nor the doctor had made it all the way through engineering school and I did. But the guy had a blue frock on and stitched up his finger and so obviously he knew much more than I did! Ah, I just get no respect!
Anyway, a week later he had an appointment with his regular doctor and I suggested he ask him if hyperbaric treatment could be had for his throbbing finger. So he did. But his doctor dismissed the idea as ludicrous for such a trivial problem and said it would cost far too much. Easy for him to say, he wasn't the one with the painful finger!
Had I known about the Get Well Center in Mansfield and the hyperbaric chamber there at the time, no doubt my neighbor would have driven down there in a heartbeat and paid out of his own pocket the $150 they charge for a treatment. He's the plant engineer at a local plant and so, unlike me, he has a job.
And so the average doctor sends you home with pills to ease the pain and figures "Mother Nature" will do her thing. But sports doctors are into anything and everything that will help speed up the process of healing- because elete athletes these days are paid great deals of money to preform and the folks that pay them sure don't want them sitting on the sidelines waiting on Mother Nature if they can help it.
Now if only they knew that oxygen saturated water was hyperbarics in a bottle, there wouldn't be a Mellenium Cooler left to be bought for $1600! All you millionares reading this, please think about me this Christmas and send me some Mellenium Cooler stock. I do need to start thinking about my retirement fund one of these days. Right now all my wealth is stored where moths can't corrupt nor thieves break through and steal. I'm OK with that, but sometimes, like now, it's difficult for me to get there and make a withdrawal. But then I'm in as good a health as I've ever been so who's thinking about retiring? (But a job would be nice for a change- especially if it was on a farm with thoroughbred runners in some nice warm climate. I don't ride, but the horses seem to like me and I think they're about as fine an animal as ever was created. I even have a hydrotherapy unit for horses that I built that I can bring with me, and, of course, oxygenated water.)
And next time we'll talk about PRESSURE as oxygen goes in the body, travels down the pressure gradient and finally gets used by those little power plants in each cell called mitochondria.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Eccl.1:7, "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again."
That's what the Preacher said circa 1000 BC. And since that Preacher was also a King in Jerusalem and a son of David, why it's fair to say he was none other than King Solomon. Imagine that, a King and also a Preacher!
So this preacher knew (as did everyone else) that all the rivers run to the sea. They probably also had a suspicion that the sea was not filling up- at least they never saw it rise much in their lifetimes.
But they'd probably never thought about the very water in the rivers somehow returning to the rivers again until Solomon suggested they think about it.
For all I know, Solomon might have been well trained in higher mathmatics, physics, chemistry, and even had a Keenan & Keyes, "Thermodynamic Properties of Steam", on his desk (that's the engineers "Bible" for all matters related to ice, water and steam; boiling points, melting points, vapor pressures, heats of vaporization and heats of fusion, enthalpy, entropy, etc.)
Anyway, it's a very obvious fact that water runs down hill if left to it's own devices. Always has, always will. If you want it to go up hill you're going to have to pay for the privilege, one way or another. There is no guesswork about it, only a dickering over the price you are willing to pay for the privilege.
Or, you can wait for the sun to heat up the sea, vaporize some water, let the vapor float high enough until it freezes and floats back down as snow on the mountain tops, or gets cold enough to gather around the campfire of a dust particle and become a rain drop, and so enter the river at a lower point than otherwise. But other than that, you are going to have to pay, one way or another, to get water from a lower level to a higher level.
The same principle applies to pressure and applies to heat. Pressure is going to flow from a higher pressure to a lower pressure and heat is going to flow from a higher temperature to a lower temperature- unless you put some energy into the system to make it do the opposite. That means you have to pay. There is no free lunch when it comes to the laws that govern the physical world. You play, you pay.
So let's assume you did your homework and are now an oxygen atom, and have had enough experience to know that it's not always fun being an oxygen atom. Sometimes you float around in the air with 8 nitrogen bullies around to hastle you for every kindred spirit that comes along (another oxygen atom) to talk to.
You soon learn to team up with another oxygen atom to better defend yourselves. You also learn that two's company, three's a crowd and so it's unlikely you stay as ozone, O3, very long. You also learn not to join up with a another oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms and become H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) because it also is no fun, struggling with your buddy over too few hydrogens to go around properly. Both O3 and H2O2 are toxic, although the latter works great to disinfect wounds.
So you become an O2 molecule. But then you find that all those dirty, rotten nitrogen atoms also teamed up to do you in. Actually they did so because you had become the bully and they were just protecting themselves- and maybe wanting a little social life of their own.
So it ends up a Mexican Stand-off between oxygen molecules and nitrogen molecules- one against four. Four cheep bullies against one very desirable, brilliant, beautiful, healthy you.
Then one day you get too close to a person's mouth or nose. Nature abhors a vacuum and so you're sucked into the vortex of a veritable wind tunnel. You see, man cannot live without you for much more than a minute and so his predator capacities are quite astounding. He's willing to expend the energy to expand his diaphram and create a negative pressure and allow in four of those rotten nitrogen molecules just to get to you!
So down the hatch you go. If you were at sea level before being caught, you enjoyed a partial pressure of (21% of 760 mm Hg=160 mm Hg) 160 millimeters of mercury (or 21% of 14.7 psia=3.09 psia; same thing, different units of measure).
But you got sucked into that vortex and by the time you see all that water in the lungs (the lungs are 90% water) the pressure around you has gone down to 105 mm Hg- if you're lucky!
So you've already lost about a third of the pressure you enjoyed outside and you haven't even begun the torturous journey you're about to go on.
So you get grabbed by the water, swim around a little, squeeze through the water/blood membrane, swim around a little more, squeeze your way through the membrane of a red blood cell, swim around a little more and finally get gobbled up by the biggest molecule you've ever seen, a hemoglobin molecule (molecular weight about 80,000- compared to your molecular weight of 32- you are no match for that monster!)
So you are trapped inside this PacMan like critter and can't get out. And you find that the pressure around you has gone to hell in a handbasket. Unknown to you, the red blood cell has meanwhile traveled through the artery system to some unknown place in the little toe where it, and you, expereince a great squeezing going on as this big fat pig called a Red Blood Cell tries to get through a tiny tube called a capillary.
The pressure causes the hemoglobin molecule (itself a big pig inside an even bigger pig) to open up and so you make your escape, back into the water inside Big Red, through Big Red's skin, and now you find the oxygen pressure around you (all your buddies that you'd given up hope of ever seeing again) is now only 39 mmHg. Hemoglobin can't do better than that!
So you keep swimming, squeeze through the capillary's "skin" and into the intercellular fluid (called interstitial fluid by those who care). The water you're in now is part of the lymph system that surrounds each cell, and it, along with all the water you've been in up to this point in your travels, is only 1/3 of the water in the body. The other two thirds is inside all those cells that are just waiting for you to arrive.
So finally you arrive at a bonifide "breathing" cell (it's called cellular respiration in case you didn't know) and it's looking for you just as badly as the nose and mouth was- which started this whole trip to begin with! Only now, the oxygen pressure around you is down to around 30 mmHg, and by the time you get through the cell wall, swim (or get carried by myoglobin- the cells counter part of hemoglobin in the blood system) to the power plant that is drawing you in, why the oxygen partial pressure is going to be only 5 mmHg. But that's enough to get you there and keep the cell alive at the same time.
If the oxygen partial pressure at the enterance to the mitochondria power plant is zero, that cell doesn't need you any more because it's dead. Bye, bye cell, hello recycling plant! (that's all the goodies in the lymph system that tear down the house, save the lumber, the copper plumbing and wiring, and anything else that isn't so old and decreped that the body says, "get rid of it!")
So now you're invited into the power plant and before you know it some hydrocarbon comes along, you both explode together, and you find yourself inextricably tied to some stinking carbon atom and are now called carbon dioxide, or if you're lucky, you get saddled with a couple of hydrogen atoms and become a Mickey Mouse character and live happily ever after.
Suffice it to say that weither you're CO2 or H2O, the cell wants to get rid of you. So one way or another you ultimately find yourself back in the atmosphere and ready for another trip, maybe to a tree or some corn, or a leaf, or something, so you can get back to being a happy camper again as a bonifide oxygen molecule.
But here's the punch line to all this. If you're an oxygen molecule that gets into highly oxygenated water because someone went to the trouble, and cost, to put you there, now you and your buddies can get right next to that cell that is dying because nobody took care of it and the red blood cells aren't as young as they used to be, and the lungs don't function like they used to, and the heart doesn't function like it used to, and so you bypass all that and go directly into the lymph system from the small intestine and arrive at the cell wall close to 760 mmHg instead of 30 mmHg. All those cells are going to love you for showing up with so much energy.
All of a sudden those power plants that were spewing out untold trash on their way to being shut down by the EPA, have their alarms go off so everyone knows "Oxygen has arrived, Oxygen has arrived! Everyone to your stations, Oxygen has arrived."
And the oxygenated water that gets into the Portal vein rather than the lymph system (about a third of it) will set off similar alarms and all the cells in the circulatory system, red blood cells, white blood cells, lungs, heart muscle, etc. will rejoice to no longer be starved for oxygen.
Maybe to help out the critics a little, who say it's preposterous that so little oxygen as contained in water could make any difference at all, I should compare Oxygenated water to starter fluid for a car on a cold winter's day. The starter fluid doesn't get you very far down the road, but it sure beats waiting for the tow truck!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
forgive my reading between the lines and such is my manners~~~
Is this a cryptic message?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello Song. Yes, it is a cryptic message. Decyphered it reads, "Please send me your gasoline credit card and an invite to stay the winter at your place in Florida". (assuming you're rich if not famous to boot).
Actually, your hometown location, A1A Florida, must be some kind of cryptic message as well since, when I looked it up in my Atlas, those coordinates seem to be near Donalsonville, Georgia and not even in Florida! Ah, this might qualify for a look by Homeland Security! Who knows, Osama might be one of those oxygen molecules floating around- at least he's about 2/3's oxygen like the rest of us- the perfect disguise!
Edited by David AndersonLink to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
"oh yes you do"
Thanks Excathy. It's good to know someone cares because I'm definately not getting any respect from the weather around here these days.
My neighbor thought he'd plow the parking lot out front for me yesterday but the snow was to deep and heavy, and his four wheel drive pickup was no match for it. So he flagged down a big snowplow (a buddy of his was driving it) to make a couple of passes and so maybe we'll do better today.
The ominous thing was he told me the former owner used to shovel off the roof of the shop and attached pavilion when the snow got this deep. Imagine that, at 61 I'm considering shoveling off a roof!!!
When I was a kid, I used to look forward to snow because I could make a killing with a snow shovel. The shovel cost two bucks, was taller than I was, and there wasn't a little old lady in the neighborhood that wouldn't let me at least shovel her walk with my new shovel (which brought in fifty cents). And if she wanted me to shovel the whole drive, why my pockets were taxed just trying to stuff all that money in them!
But shoveling roofs? That's a concept I'd never heard before yesterday. I don't even want to do mine, let alone entertain the idea that I could make money at it walking up and down the street in search of...little young ladies in need of a hand with a shovel (all the little old ladies are gone because I'm now the little old man!)
Sometimes I just don't like it that God is no respector of persons and the rain falls on the just and the unjust- as does the snow. Just once I'd like it to snow everywhere else but on my place this Winter. Hey, that would be a Wierwillian "snow in July" in reverse! Why everyone would send me their gasoline credit cards to get me to Florida. I'd be a bonifide MOG! Ah, but then I wouldn't need to get to Florida would I?
Merry Christmas- ho, ho, ho! Maybe some reindeer will plow my snow.
Edited by David AndersonLink to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
And here we go again. This is quite a place you have here Paw. I thought by now you would surely have kicked me out for belaboring a suject that most folks don't even think exists let alone have an interest in. Far easier to dismiss it with a "you'll only burp" or maybe some comment from quackwatch.com or taking your doctors word for it that low plasma oxygen is not your problem.
But I see that the viewer number keeps going up each day so apparently some folks are reading this stuff. Maybe they're all looking to catch me in a lie, but if that's so, that's a good thing too! If nothing else, their silence ratifies what i've said.
Anyway, after a year and a half of being intreagued with the subject of highly oxygenated water, I have about eight notebooks full of notes on the subject that are just crying to be put into some kind of order and I don't know how to do that other than to talk about it and see if anything rings a bell with anyone other than me or it I've made any glaring errors.
Along the way a good number of articles, published in medical journals, have been absorbed and it is one of the reasons why I have absolutely no doubt that most of the medical profession is filled with people who aren't scientists at all. They are merely pretenders to being objective observers of scientific laws and principles.
Instead of citing Newton's laws, or Boyle's law, or Charles' law or Henry's law, or the laws governing diffusion, chemical reaction, and various energy transformation laws, they settle for double blind, cross-over tests and then use statistical analysis to "prove" their case.
The trouble is that statistical analysis can never show cause and effect by it's very nature. It was invented to examine games of chance and determine the probability of winning or losing money on the flip of a coin or the roll of the dice.
Ah, but along comes medicine and refines the process with "p numbers". And for those of you that don't know what p numbers are, you'll usually see them in double blind, crossover tests as p.05, etc.
I ventured to object to the use of p numbers on Horsescience and, as you can imagine, I was roundly criticized for daring to object. One vet went so far as to publish a link to a site that defined p numbers as "an estimate that the probability of a hypothesis being true was correct." I replied, after looking up the link, "Yep, a guess of a guess of a guess- third order guesswork." Oh, the vets, MD's and "owner" of the site hated that one! (probably the underlying reason the "owner" had to dispatch with me sooner or later- that and, horror of horrors, I thought evolution was also mostly nonsense and had no problem with Genesis whatsoever.
So these medical "researchers" give an appearance of validity to their work by, in essence, saying, "We're more than 95% sure that what we've come up with is true." If an engineer or archetect tryed to pass off a building with "I'm 95% sure this building will not explode or collapse" you can imagine what the people that put up the money to build the building would do!
And yet we put pills in our mouth and swallow them merely because a doctor told us to, based on nothing other than p number pseudoscience. And the devotees of this kind of sloppiness insist that double blind, crossover tests be done on anything and everything before they will admit it has any validity at all. To them all other evidence is worthless and worthy only of contempt, including personal testimony of something good but not approved by the AMA.
I'm the first to admit there are fine, knowledgable, honorable medical doctors in the world. But my guess is that they folow my ten percent rule (ie. only 10% of any given populaton is firing on all cylinders at any given time- the rest are along for the ride.)
In fact, for a long time I've bemoaned having been taught by my mother that 99 out of 100 folks are decent folks. That's not my experience over the past 61 years. And so I've been constantly dissapointed. Now had she taught me that I'd be lucky to find one in a hundred that was honorable, why I would have been much more suspicious but far less dissapointed. In fact I would have been downright tickled because not only would I have found one out of a hundred, I'd have found ten! (sometimes maybe even twenty if I was really lucky! p>.05))
Anyway, the post about an oxygen molecule getting into the body and traveling around is not dependent on p numbers. It depends only on known laws, namely that things will go from a high pressure to a lower pressure if left to their own devices, and such known things as gas solubilites in water, how pumps work, and how diffusion works.
Ah, and now back out into the subzero temperatures around here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
On a program called Frontline tonight there was a documentary about alternative medicine vs. the National Institute of Health and the politics of the health care industry. Seems Congress funded the NIH ten or twelve years ago to investigate alternative medicine and predictably they did little or nothing.
But then they did a survey of how many people used alternative therapy of one sort or another without telling their doctors and they were amazed to find it was at least a third of the population. Oops, looks like their monopoly is going to hell in a handbasket!
Anyway, it was interesting and hopefully some others that visit here can give their input. The fact remains that the average person needs three pounds of food a day, three pounds of water, and six pounds of oxygen.
We can investigate foods, drugs, pills, vitimins, herbs, etc. until we are blue in the face- there are no end of them. I have nothing against them except for the impossibility of even investigating all of them, let alone trying to categorize, rank, and prioritize them.
I can't tell you how many times people have come by proportedly to find out about oxygenated water when in fact they want to sell me some natural food, some juice, some schedule for coffee enemas, some dietary supliment, etc. and think that oxygenated water is just one more in a long line of stuff you'll find at your "food" store. But water is not food and oxygen is not food. They are the other two of the Big Three!
Then we have the "food and drug" distinction, as if drugs are not food, when in fact they are- unknown, black box, kind of food that you take "on faith"- not faith in God but faith in your doctor. And because they've made a distinction between food and drugs, artficial as it is, they can charge outrageous prices and get away with it.
3 pounds of food, 3 pounds of water, 6 pounds of oxygen. That's what you need each day. I'll let the millions of other folks that are into foods and drugs tell you about food. It's way to complicated a subject for me. But all those foods and drugs have to react with one thing, oxygen- and they have to do so in a water solution.
Just like the hundreds of grades and trade names of gasoline, there's not one food or drug that will do you any good unless it has some oxygen around to combine with and so release energy. O2 and H2O are pretty simple molecules. Food and drug molecules are hundreds and thousands of times bigger, not to mention that they come in helixes, coils, long chains, short chains, amine groups, sulfa groups, phosphate groups, acids, bases, aromatics, you name it. But by far the major constituent of them all is carbon atoms and hydrogen atoms. And so the simple reaction of hydrocarbon + oxygen yields carbon dioxide + water + energy applies. Starve that equation of oxygen and you die. Maybe you get cancer first and then die, but die you surely will. No oxygen, no life! And if you don't get rid of the water and carbon dioxide produced by that reaction you will also die. Granted that if you don't eat any food for long enough you will also die, but that is not likely for most. I can't remember when the last person was in America that was reported to have died of starvation. Most have store up enough in their bodies to not only save for a rainy day, but save for a rainly year.
But outside the heart and the skelital muscles, the body has no capacity to store up significant oxygen for a rainy day- or a rainy minute.
I have it on good authority that after coming out of a hyperbaric chamber a person can hold their breath for 6 minutes and can be kept alive in a hyperbaric chamber with no hemoglobin function at all. But absent a hyperbaric chamber, we're lucky if we can hold our breath for even one minute.
But alas, highly oxygenated water was not one of the alternative therapies mentioned on the show tonight. Maybe they were saving the best for last and ran out of time- like preachers that never quite get to the scripture on Sunday morning.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
this is too cool Dave. keep it coming.
pnuema hagion...the comforter cometh...
;)-->
this might sound strange, but it might also interest you. i've learned and experienced and trained myself, using a variety of techniques, that if i sit (not s.i.t.) undisturbed and work at it for about a half hour or so, i can get into this comfortable circular breathing rhythm that takes at least 3 minutes to cycle thru a single full body/mind breath.
tho, i must say again, this kinda stuff is kinda like the red pill in "The Matrix."
there are observable inner and outer transformative effects from breathwork.
if you pursue it, you'll most likely never be the same again,
mostly, cuz its not just another translation of "spirit."
its more like an actual activation/praxis.
which takes discipline to do it well.
like playin with fire and wind.
wise & harmless.
imo, its part of why S.I.T. had at least slight transformative effects on some...
to exhale (as mere speech) for such a prolonged period can't not affect the character of one's "pnuema hagion." like how monks chant their long-a$$ vibrating oyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys, or whatever.
anyway, for what its worth...
i hope i didn't sound too much like an a$$.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Okay I have a question.
I did some reading and I found "Oxygen toxicity". Specifically "Pulmonary OT" and "CNS-OT".
'Pulmonary OT' is when someone is exposed to high oxygen atmospheres for longer than 12 hours.
'CNS-OT' [Central Nervous System] is is when someone is exposed to high-oxygen high-pressure atmospheres. A chart I found said that as the pressure of high-oxygen atmospheres is raised the danger of toxicity is increased. While breathing 100% oxygen at one atmosphere can be done forever, but 2 atmospheres would kill you quick. They even presented a chart for divers using pure oxygen, to know according to how high the pressure of the system, how long you can safely breath it.
1.6 ATA = 45 minutes
1.5 ATA = 120 min
1.4 ATA = 150 min
1.3 ATA = 180 min
Question? Yes I did say I had a question. I am getting there.
I then did a search for Hyperbaric Oxygen chambers and I read more. Hyperbaric Oxygen treatment Centers normally 100% oxygen at 2.0 - 2.4 ATA, for 40 minutes to 1.5 hours.
Question? Yes these dont agree with each other.
Can anyone explain?
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello Todd and Galen.
Todd, your experience of being able to breath in 3 minute cycles amazes me. Sure wish I would have known how to do that when I was a kid. I would have won every one of our Hold Your Breath contests! I haven't seen the Matrix and so don't know what the red pill is. I suspect it's a bad thing rather than a good thing and so it's probably good that I didn't know about a 3 minute breathing cycle when I was a kid or i'd be dead.
Galen, I think the problem is the same one I had early on in college. When doing exam problems I'd forget that I had to use absolute pressures and temperatures rather than gauge pressures and Farenheit or Centigrade temperatures, and so got more than one problem wrong on account of it.
So when I read 1 ATA I assume it means one atmosphere absolute. But the authors could well have confused absolute pressure with gauge pressure. Not saying they did, but it's one possibility.
For example, a tire pressure gauge (Borden tube type) reads zero when sitting on the work bench. That's zero gauge pressure. But it is actually measuring one atmosphere of pressure or 14.7 psia (pounds per square inch absolute) because that's the pressure of the atmosphere. So zero psig = 14.7 psia = 1 ATA (atmosphere absolute). I don't know as i've seen a designation in hyperbaric literature of ATG (for atmosphere guage) and so suspect that it's a serious confusion issue with lots of folks.
So let's take my tire gauge example a little further. The gauge reads zero sitting on the bench because it is calibrated to read zero when the outside pressure pushing on the coiled tube (the guts of the guage- the Borden tube) is the same as the inside pressure of the tube. You then put the gauge on the tire and now the inside pressure is the same as the pressure inside the tire instead of the same as atmospheric pressure. Let's say it reads 32 psi. That's 32 psi greater than the pressure outside the gauge and the tire, which, if at sea level, will be 14.7 psia. So the absolute pressure of the air in the tire is 32 +14.7 =46.7 psia. To prove it, just put the tire and gage into a Saturn Rocket and read the gauge when it is miles above the earth, where the atmospheric pressure is zero. It will read 46.7 and not 32 (zero pressure outside the tube and 32 psi plus 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure on the inside- the number of gas molecules didn't change inside the tire.
Likewise, if you take the tire, with gauge attached, and submerse it in water to a depth of about 34 feet, now the guage will read 32 - 14.7 = 17.3 psig because you are one atmospheres worth of pressure above that which exists at sea level. A 34 foot column of water is now pressing down on you, the tire and the outside of the gauge, in addition to the pressure of the atmosphere, but the number of molecules inside the tire and gauge hasn't changed. And so the pressure on the outside of the gauge is 14.7 psi higher than it was at sea level and so the hollow coil that straightens as the pressure inside the coil increases, will now want to coil up again due to the increased pressure outside of it.
If you were to take the tire and gauge down to about 80 feet deep in water, the gauge will read zero and after that you'll ruin the gauge because it will start to collapse. But I'm talking about simple gauges that are commonly found on boilers or pressure cookers, or oxygen tanks- round dial ones, not the myriad of other types that work on a different principle.
Anyway, hope that wasn't clear as mud!
But a second possibility is that 100% oxygen isn't generally used in hyperbaric chambers. Evidently the lungs have a specialized tissue in them not found elsewhere in the body and pure oxygen can do damage to them if exposed to it for 24 hours straight (or maybe 12 hours straight- depending on who you read). I assume medical grade oxygen is only 95% oxygen and 5% water for this very reason. (and therefore they can charge much more money for it and it generally requires a doctors prescription- same oxygen, different packaging and marketing).
So this problem is solved by using an oxygen generator rather than a welding grade oxygen bottle for the portable home chambers that are on the market these days.
These chambers only go up to 4 psig or .27 atmospheres guage (1.27 atmospheres absolute) and are pressurized using air from the room so that the person in the chamber has air around him but oxygen going up his nose. The oxygen generator only produces 90% oxygen, although I'm told they can go up to 95% oxygen for the high priced models.
So the tube that pressurizes the chamber comes from an oilless air compressor and a much smaller tube delivers the oxygen to the nose from the oxygen generator outside the chamber.
There's another advantage to using an oxygen generator as opposed to an oxygen bottle. If an oxygen bottle is left in the room- say someone's living room, and the valve is not tightly turned off when not in use, over time the room will fill with oxygen. So far, no problem. Anybody in the room will just feel better because they are getting more oxygen.
But let's say the person in the room is reading the newspaper while smoking a cigarette and some hot ash falls on the newspaper. Normally that's not a problem, just a burn hole in the newspaper. But with 100% oxygen in the room(five times the normal amount) the newspaper now says, "I'll get you, you dirty rat, for daring to burn a hole in me", and it bursts into flame in a hurry and the person panics, throws the newspaper on the floor, which also now has five times as much oxygen as normal to help it burn, and before long the house goes up in flames and everything in it, including the person reading the newspaper. That's why it's a fire hazzard. It doesn't burn itself, but it sure supports combustion. (Which is why I figure they aught to put oxygen generators on cars- except that the amount of oxygen used in a car might require an oxygen generator as big as the car and as costly. But it sure would increase gas milage and eliminate NOx gasses and carbon monoxide gasses).
On the other hand, if you leave an oxygen generator on when not in use, it will merely take oxygen from the air and put it right back into the air and so there is no oxygen buildup in the room.
Other than that, I have no answers for you Galen. But I'll surely keep it in mind until I have a better answer. I do know, from Dr. James at the Wolfson hyperbaric medical unit at the University of Dundee, in Stonewall, England, that hyperbaric chambers do take people up to 3 atmospheres or more absolute and can keep them alive even though they have no hemoglobin function- provided they can get the plasma oxygen level up to 30 ppm.
But you bring up an excellent point about varying pressures, oxygen concentrations and time in a chamber. No doubt the navy's of the world know what is best for what set of conditions, but I am still way to much a novice to know those fine points of hyperbaric treatment. I'm still getting over the fact that FEDGOV has hid from us it's evedently effective use for stroke victims simply because they'd live longer and therefore collect social security longer.
By the way, I read today that adult seals can stay under water for 30 minutes without coming up for air, and the Weddell Seal can dive in excess of 1000 feet in search of food. That's a pressure of almost 30 atmospheres.
I guess Dr. Barrett, MD, the guy who thought oxygenated water was silly and figured people would have to have gills to get any good from it, didn't consider seals and like warm blooded creatures that live in water a lot. Seems that they have lots of myoglobin everywhere in their bodies and therefore can store up to 5 times as much oxygen as we can. It's myoglobin that gives red meat it's color- and red meat is muscle.
I'd say there was a good chance that horses would run better if all their myoglobin sites were filled with oxygen- which probably doesn't happen without highly oxygenated water or hyperbaric "oxygen doping". It may happen in very well trained race horses but "state of the art" in that "profession" is back in the dark ages and so $500 to put a horse in a hyperbaric chamber before a race is probably a good investment. In fact, the guy I talked with in Atlanta, Lance Brubaker, figured we could make a lot of money building hyperbaric chambers for horses, provided we could get some investors to get the project off the ground. There are only a few such chambers in existance today and there are a lot of race tracks.
But try to convince a horse trainer of anything. Cnances are he or she is back in the dark ages somewhere and will merely parrot Dr. Barrett's "won't work" dismissal. The Weddell Seal sure knows it works! In fact, seems that the majority of seals live were it's very cold- which means the water is maxed with oxygen.
But horse trainers in general will only take maybe five or ten years to act on the information discussed here, once they figure out that horses given "oxygen doping" are winning most all the purses- at which point they'll try to convince their owners that they are the first to discover this "new" thing.
One other piece of information for Krys if she's still reading. I measured the oxygen concentration of Rich and Marry Ann's water and it was as close to zero as my meter would read.
In fact it was the lowest of any water I've tested. I've been meaning to read up on BOD- biological oxygen demand, that is a major number of interest to EPA. Perhaps you could amplify what it means and how the measurement is taken.
Edited by David AndersonLink to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Galen:
When I read your post, I went looking for info which would help me find a reason for this contradictory information.
I couldn't! BUT I believe everything you've found about toxicity is reported for underwater divers. I am making a presumption, this is not borne out by anything I can find to substantiate it....I believe the toxicity arises from adding pressure to pressure. In other words, when they describe a pressure of "2" (whatever units) they are not including the pressure added to the entire system by the depth of the water...so the apparent pressure is greater than what is measured.
I know that temperature and pressure is important in all reactions. Sometimes we ignore it, because at normal temps at sea level there is no scale for correction. At higher elevations, there are even instructions on the back of a cake mix to adjust for altitude (or decreased pressure)
I also know that there are time when there is too much oxygen and it acts like a poison because it causes damage...i.e. premature infants....if they are too young in gestational age, and require too much oxygen via their lungs (which cannot yet efficiently obtain it for curculation)...they are prone to blindness.
The physiology of premature infants is so different from gestationally mature infants, that it takes experts to care for them. The human adult body does not have the adaptive variations which permit it to function at considerable depths (as other sea mammals).
Hyperbaric chambers don't appear to produce the same pressure effect as divers, and certainly not for such long periods of time.
I hope my ramblings here shed some light on this for you, Galen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Todd:
BOD or Biological/Biochemical Oxygen Demand is a measure of the health of a body of water.All the living organisms in a body of water require oxygen to live (even the plants) so if the supply of oxygen is compromised, so are the organisms which live in it.
It is measured indirectly by either inspecting the larvae of certain insects which live in it or by chemically determining the quantity of dissolved oxygen. We used to use cumbersome chemical titration and weird equation to measure it, and sometimes it was tough and grueling to find those wee buggers under a microscope. I believe there is now a meter which can do it quickly with a probe.
All ecosystems have a way to remove “trashâ€, dead organisms, in this case…this is called detritus. There are a number of creature which do this, but the final stage is done by bacteria. These bacteria also use oxygen.
It’s normal to have this decomposition occur in all healthy systems. It is only when this is out of control that it’s a problem.
The higher the BOD the more polluted the water. It is the oxygen that these bacteria are “demanding†which is being measured.
If a body of water is polluted with nitrates or phosphates, that will act like a fertilizer for these bacteria and they will grow rapidly producing very large numbers of themselves and use more and more of the dissolved oxygen….even to the point where those living critters cannot survive any longer and suffocate..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
yeah, Dave. that 3 minute thing really is an extreme sport of breathwork. like mountain climbing or skydiving. for the record: 90% of good useful enlightening breathwork is not as intense or risky.
wow, krys. that is interesting, considering how our human bodies are also bodies within bodies within bodies of water.
i think as we (as individuals and bodies) continue to compare the workings of inner-individual biologies with the fields of outer ecologies, we will see more groovy insights. inner ecologies/outer collective biology (the world as one body/organism).
just as in the outer world, within each of us are ecosystems of vegetable matter, insect matter, wind, gas, rain, electricity, fire, mineral, crystal, etc...
lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
;)-->
heck, some cells even make vehicles for themselves. build and nations and armies and go to war.
;)-->
of course, if one wants to go back to the Biblios and re-read some of the allegoric references in light of this, as also somewhat literal again, but applying to the body/soul/spirit of the interior life...we might see less conflict over pie-in-the sky vagueries, and more nitty gritty and nuts and bolts wisdom.
the firmament between heaven and earth, it seems, is less than skin deep. like the mirror-skin of a lake, perhaps.
as it is above, so it is below.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Krysilis [the wonderful]-
“When I read your post, I went looking for info which would help me find a reason for this contradictory information.â€
Thanks.
“I couldn't! BUT I believe everything you've found about toxicity is reported for underwater divers. I am making a presumption, this is not borne out by anything I can find to substantiate it....I believe the toxicity arises from adding pressure to pressure. In other words, when they describe a pressure of "2" (whatever units) they are not including the pressure added to the entire system by the depth of the water...so the apparent pressure is greater than what is measured.â€
I had thought of that, but they seem to go to lengths to explain that such is not so.
“The human adult body does not have the adaptive variations which permit it to function at considerable depths (as other sea mammals).â€
What?
Do you mean that human adults can not live for long terms in high-pressure environments? [said the spider to the fly :-)]
“Hyperbaric chambers don't appear to produce the same pressure effect as divers, and certainly not for such long periods of time.â€
Is that these chamber treatments are limited to 1 hour – 2 hours, yes.
“I hope my ramblings here shed some light on this for you, Galen.â€
Such is my hope as well.
Most of my direct experience in atmospheres that were man-controlled were low-oxygen atmospheres, and not high-oxygen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
David Anderson:
"Galen, I think the problem is the same one I had early on in college. When doing exam problems I'd forget that I had to use absolute pressures and temperatures rather than gauge pressures and Farenheit or Centigrade temperatures, and so got more than one problem wrong on account of it."
hmm. I looked again and further.
I foudn that Hyperbaric O2 Treatment is defined as: O2 is given at 2.0 – 2.4 atm (or 1520 – 1800 mm Hg) [or 2.02 - 2.43 bar] [or 29.2 - 34.82 psi] for 40 – 60 minutes SID – BID.
Under Oxygen Toxicity I found:
Central nervous system oxygen toxicity: The NOAA Diving Manual recommends maximum single exposures of: 45 minutes at 1.6 bar [or 1.58 atm] [or 47.26 in Hg] [or 23.21 psi],
of 120 minutes at 1.5 bar [or 1.48 atm] [or 44.31 in Hg] [or 21.76 psi],
of 150 minutes at 1.4 bar [or 1.38 atm] [or 41.36 in Hg] [or 20.31 psi],
and of 180 minutes at 1.3 bar [or 1.28 atm] [or 38.40 in Hg] [or 18.86 psi].
and I found: Pulmonary oxygen toxicity is caused by exposure over 16 hours to partial pressures of 0.5 bar [or 0.49 atm] [or 14.77 in Hg] [or 7.25 psi] or more.
All from the NOAA which I thought was supposed to be some smart guys.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Yes, that's exactly right. Deep diving mammals have a way to change their circulation pattern.
It's called the "Diving Reflex" and withdraws blood from the extremities keeping circulation between the heart, lungs and brain paramount. Other biologicical functions shut down. And, as they run low on oxygen, their muscles do not cramp as ours do.
In addition, their chest cavities are compressable to withstand the extreme pressure.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
Do you live in New England? I would enjoy getting you a tour onboard the NR-1. We took a 4-H group onboard recently, a great trip.
I am very familiar with how humans work on low-levels of O2, for months at a time [rarely below 10%, more routinely between 14% and 18%]. O2 percentage is not really the big problem rather CO2 is. Though I have never had to work long-term under high-pressure. Of which I am very thankful.
I have known men who do routinely work in high-pressure, not always as divers just bubbleheads. But you are right in that divers do it too. Deep-depth welders make good money and living in diving bells, making trips out into the water each shift for their work.
I had thought the reason for compressable organs was for animals that dont pressure-equalize. They dive deep and hold their breath while doing it.
People pressure-equalize, so whatever the pressure is outside of our body, it is the same on the inside of our body. The primary issue being dont de-pressurize quickly. I have been wet down to 400 feet, you just swim back up slowly, exhaling the whole trip [HO HO HO HO]. But that is why we dont need compressable organs, we pressure-equalize.
:-)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
I think you misunderstood me. The deep diving mammals have their rib cages designed in such a way that the pressure can compress them. We cannot do that....we would be crushed at the depths these creatures go. Way beyond 400 feet.
Galen, when you worked at 15-18% oxygen, who monitored your blood oxygen concentration? I hope somebody did. What was the effective pressure you did operate under? What was the other gas/gasses?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
krysilis:
"I had thought the reason for compressable organs was for animals that dont pressure-equalize. They dive deep and hold their breath while doing it."
"I think you misunderstood me. The deep diving mammals have their rib cages designed in such a way that the pressure can compress them. We cannot do that....we would be crushed at the depths these creatures go. Way beyond 400 feet."
I was just saying 400 feet presure as it is the deepest pressure that I have felt. Obviously men routinely go uhh deeper. Every boat I have lived on went deeper. Uh, "Greater than 400 feet" [wink wink].
So your saying that guys who work at deep depths dont really pressure-equalize? When you breath air at pressure, and move around the pressure inside your body is equal to the pressure outside your body. Why do you need to be chrushed? What part of you would be crushed? You can not crush your ribs, as your lungs are filled with every breath, with air at the same pressure as is on the outside of your body.
"Galen, when you worked at 15-18% oxygen, who monitored your blood oxygen concentration? I hope somebody did. What was the effective pressure you did operate under? What was the other gas/gasses?"
I long ago shredded my qual notes, sorry. Ask an IC-man, they monitor atmospheric gas levels, not ETs. My exposures to 400 feet have been short. Again most of my time underwater was spent at 1 to 1.5 atm.
The on-board doc no doubt 'monitored' us all, through behavioral study. So long as everything is running normal, we would only have a third of the crew up at any one time. During casultys or training drills when we expected the entire crew to be up and about, they would increase the O2 bleed and raise oxygen levels to the high 20's, just to get everyone alert and full of energy.
Normaly much more sleep is needed, and after 6-8 hours of work you really get to dragging. Usually it was hard to stay going for more than maybe 10 hours as you would just get really tired. 10 hours of sleep would always recharge us for another shift. A normal cycle of 6 hours on watch, 2 hours working maintenance, 10 hours sleep: pretty much made the normal 18 hour day for us.
A little lower oxygen helps limit fires, why waste it on the crew when you know that once a fire gets going, the whole place fills with smoke anyway and the O2 is wasted. Once we see smoke we all go onto EABs [Emergency Air Breathing Respirators, a system of 100 psi air in manifolds stationed every 8 feet through out the boat.] So nobody really cares if the fire gets starved of O2.
I got the impression that the most important thing in maintaining a man-made atmosphere is getting rid of all the CO2. Yes obviously breaking apart the Hydro-Carbons, Freons, and radical junk is important, but it is easy. The CO2 adds up quickly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kit Sober
Additional notes on making your ow oxygenated water. (See Dave's 12/8/04 post for instructions)
It is really easy once you have the setup set up.
A friend who works with oxygen and other tanks assured me that the 3-foot high tank we have, if it lost it's cap and went out of control, would only fizz around the room, and that it's the bigger ones that would rocket across and go through walls etc. if the cap came off. That was reassuring to me.
I have been using glass bottles for my water, and it is much nicer, IMHO.
If I was going to sell "Pneuma Water" (Dave's name for the product), I would go with a top of the line bottling (wine bottles and a rubber stopper), and promo the "Pneuma Water" as "a sobering experience," since the added oxygen does help restore sanity after partying.
(Fred compared it to the whiff's of pure oxygen he and his military compatriots would inhale after a night of indulgence.)
Also I was thinking that the glass bottles, in addition to no plastic heebie jeebies, would also get the more delicate, high-class treatment of the wine section of the store, which I think such a product should have.
Kit
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Ah, back at my favorite mom and pop resataurant these days. Looks like the conversation here has been quite lively as 2004 ran out of gas (and oxygen).
Since it's Sunday morning I'm reminded that I'm suposed to minister grace to the hearers (something I'm accused of not doing most of the time). So, to put the matter of oxygenated water in perspective, "it's not that which goeth into the mouth that defiles a man but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defiles a man", "a merry heart works like a medicine", "be not weary in well doing", "the Word of God is life to those who find it and health to all their flesh", "out of their bellies shall flow rivers of living waters", "knowledge puffs up but love builds up" and such come to mind and deflate my natural arrogance.
In a lot of respects, coming across the matter of oxygen in water is like coming across PFAL back in 1964-65 (whenever it was that my cousin John wanted to marry one of VP's daughters and found he had to take his class before he could get his approval!)
In the former case, it took the best part of two years from the time I first heard about PFAL until I actually sat through it the first time- and a trip through a windshield at 70 miles an hour (the car stopped I didn't) probably helped get my attention along the way.
In the latter case, seeing my best friend (and cousin, and godfather, and mom's best friend) collapse from lack of oxygen put the study and practice of adding oxygen to water on the front burner of my life.
In both cases, after due dilligence to investigate and apply what I'd learned, I figured everybody in the world would want to know this information- especially everyone I knew- and use it in their lives.
Oops, I sure was wrong about that! In the first case, I got a room at my former high school and soon had twenty of my high school and church friends say they would show up to take the class. When only four showed up I was so angry I couldn't help those present for anger at all the "goats" that didn't show up- a valuable lesson for me to learn how to handle (I'm still trying to learn that lesson), but very tough on those who "in good faith" showed up to learn something.
It seems that not much has changed in the intervening forty years, except that I know quite a bit more than I did then of the nefarious ways and means used to hide a good thing- usually it boils down to the opponents having lots more money than I do and having a vested interest in protecting their power base against encroachment by the potential of lots of folks not buying their products any more. Nothing new under the sun.
My experience over the years I was involved with twi, was that 9 out of 10 who took PFAL were never heard from again. Sure wish I had a crystal ball and could see how the information helped them over the last thirty years or so. I'm thinking they fared better than those who hopped on the band wagon and helped turn twi into a monster.
The reason I say that is because this was VPW's stated purpose. ie, "I don't want to control peoples lives or own property, I just think people should know what the word of God says so they can decide if they believe it or not." Those that took PFAL and headed down the road without looking back comply with that purpose to a tee. We all know what happened to those who stayed on, and on, and on.
Anyway, it's just been a month since I started this thread and I have no idea how many, if any, people actually made some oxygenated water for themselves and satisfied themselves it was a good thing to do on a continuing basis- like reading the Bible. Sure would be nice to see some confirmation that it actually was a good thing in practice.
So, since it is Sunday morning, maybe it's testimony time.
I started making and drinking "Pneuma Water" in June, 2003. That was before it was even given a name, just water saturated with oxygen as close to freezing as I could get it. I've mentioned the urine turning colorless, but other than that I didn't investigate how it might have helped me. I haven't needed to see a doctor my entire life except for broken bones, cuts and the like. I only drank the water in support of cousin Russ (under the nebulous assumption that if I drank it regularly he would as well.)
As summer went buy I drank a lot of it because I shoveled dirt and hauled it for a walkway we were making along the river bank here all summer long. I called it "working out at Ernie's gym". To me there is nothing in the world that tastes better than cold, highly oxygenated water- and I'd never been a water drinker in my life except when there was no coke or coffee around to drink.
By August or September I noticed one day while driving that I could turn my neck much farther than before, as one intersection at which I stopped frequently (that came into a road at a 45 degree angle) had previously required me to turn the car so as to increase the angle before making a right hand turn. Otherwise it was difficult for me to see the oncoming traffic. I'd forgotten to turn the car toward the center and marvelled that I could see the oncoming traffic without having done so.
By October it dawned on me that my cigarette stash was lasting far longer than normal (I get them from an Indian Reservation) and so discovered that whereas I'd smoked about three packs a day most of my adult life, I was down to one pack a day on average- and all without giving it a single thought or the slightest effort. I say that because I'm one of those recalcitrant smokers that is as likely to point out that many of the doo-gooders that warned me about dying of cancer over the past 50 years are now dead and I'm not, as I am to being kind to them.
But, it was a major discovery for me none-the-less, since the savings in cigarette expendatures more than offset the cost of oxygen for my oxygen bottle and the cost of distilling water- a bonifide profit center!
Sometime last winter I went over to a friends house that I hadn't seen in a year and after discussing oxygenated water he commented that all the liver spots on my forehead were gone. I'm not a very vain person (closer to a slob as far as personal appearance is concerned), and so was interested in his observation. When I got home and looked at my wrists and arms, sure enough many of the same kind of liver spots had either faded or vanished entirely.
It impressed me because I'd listened to "Dead Doctor's Don't Lie" and learned that some 70 or more minerals were needed by the body and one or more of them, if missing in the diet, cause liver spots- inside and outside the body. Hmmm, I thought, if that is true then the systematic use of oxygenated water must help the body recover these minerals for reuse rather than dumping them out with the trash and the deficeit showing up as liver spots as we age.
I also noticed that my finger nails and toe nails, that had become like very rough wash boards (or riffles to any who might be inclined to panning gold), had smoothed out significantly- almost now to the point that I have to look hard to see them and can hardly feel them at all. Also, they are far less brittle as are my teeth.
So it's sort of like miracles, that one sees looking back over one's shoulder and never sees any looking straight ahead. I've probably forgotten the most dramatic effects on my life because the biggest miracles are usually the last seen even when one is looking for them.
All I really know is that I feel better, and stronger, and more alert, and less tired, than I have in years, and I take no pills- vitimins or otherwise, have no restricted diet (other than what the lack of money imposes on me) and still smoke.
Oops, I monopolized all the testimony time this morning! Sure hope some that have read this thread are willing to show up and tell us they've actually made some and are drinking it on a regular basis. If so, a month is probably to short a time to see much difference, but who knows.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
"I also know that there are time when there is too much oxygen and it acts like a poison because it causes damage...i.e. premature infants....if they are too young in gestational age, and require too much oxygen via their lungs (which cannot yet efficiently obtain it for curculation)...they are prone to blindness."
Hello again Krys. I think the above was the common reason given since the fifties by some in the scientific community to justify discarding the use of hyperbaric chambers- or at least severely limit their use out of fear that untold damage could occur by it's use. But evidently the problem was the rate of decompression (like the bends) and subsequently the hyperbaric people found that if the premature baby was placed back in a hyperbaric chamber, pressurized and then depressurized slowly, that the blindness was reversable.
I forget now exactly where I read that, but it was a result of punching in "hyperbaric physiology" into my search engine- and is how I found that Dr. Philip James, in England, is one of the principal players in the hyperbaric game. He's the one I wrote to that said oxygenated water could cause no negative physiological effects. (or rather, there were no known negatives to drinking it).
I also found it interesting that he was on (or chaired) the UN Commission on Obesity which I found interesting since it brought to mind that their might be a relationship between this huge worldwide problem and a lack of oxygen in drinking water around the world.
Thanks for the BOD explaination. I take it then that BOD is basically the difference in the rate at which oxygen from the air is added to bodies of water and the rate at which it is used by the cridders in the water. In other words, if the Great Lakes (which contain one fifth of all the fresh water in the world) were composed only of distilled water, the Biological Oxygen Demand would be zero, regardless of the temperature of the water.
As an aside, dissolved oxygen meters commonly go up to only 20 parts per million. One of the companies that makes them, OxyGuard, has a portable one that now goes up to 50 ppm and their web site says that the sales of them have gone up dramatically in recent years due to the interest in oxygenated drinking water. As of a year or so ago they cost $700 new, but that might now be much higher since the Euro has gone up 60% relative to the dollar- thanks to Greenie and Bush and all their associates. They are to the economic world what the AMA is to the health world- sometimes inflation is the problem and then they say they need to inflate the money supply to solve the problem. How can one thing, inflation, be both the problem and the solution ? When I was visiting Rich in the hospital, the doctor said that oxygen was not his problem- but he was laying in bed with an oxygen tube up his nose at the time and so the doctors words were belied by his actions.
Anyway, I know about oxyguard because the guy I flew out to see in Portland in November, 2003 (he wanted to set up a company to make oxygenated water for horses) welshed on his promise to give me his Oxyguard so that I could do further testing, in exchange for flying out and showing him how to simply and economically make highly oxygenated water.
Since I didn't have the $700 to just go buy one, I made my own, and in the process met the North American Sales Manager for Sensorex, the company that makes most of the probes for all the d.o. meters around the world. (a $125 probe and a $3 multimeter does roughly the same thing as a fancy d.o. meter)
He told me the reason that most meters go up only to 20 ppm is because fish hatcheries oxygenated water to 20 ppm prior to shipping fish from hatcheries to the lakes or rivers where they are places. They do this to prevent the fish from dying of shock when introduced to a new habitat.
So at least the fish people know that adding oxygen to water is a good thing and not a bad thing. But I doubt that a fish hatchery is going to fund an AMA approved double blind, placibo, cross-over study to prove it, complete with p numbers so that everyone can know how good their guess of a guess of a guess is. (or their estimate that the probability of their assumption being true is). When all is said and done, the AMA and the National Institute of Health deal in no more than antidotal evidence- it just costs millions of dollars to get their evidence.
I have also yet to find anything on the internet that specifically deals with oxygen being a poison. Molecular oxygen gets confused with "oxygen free radicals", "reactive oxygen speces", and all kinds of innuendo. But it is not ozone, it is not hydrogen peroxide- which do form free radicals, it is not a free radical at all.
Seems amazing to me that something that the body needs every minute of the day could also be considered a poison. But then I heard of a person years ago that killed herself drinking too much water. She'd evidently heard that drinking lots of water was good and so she literally drowned herself drinking too much water. Surely that was much more than the three pounds a day (about a third of a gallon) the average person needs.
Best wishes,
Dave
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
If I ran one of those reverse-osmosis pumps that extracts O2 from the air and fed that into my bedroom 24 hours a day, how much would I expect to increase the O2 content? [so that while sleeping I would breath an 'enriched' atmosphere]
And would such do any good?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.