quote: But no, each has to have his own rose stash to ruin and pays little attention to what the others are finding.
Not so much anymore. Yes, scientists do replicate each other' work, but to check on each other's veracity. "Pure science" will do that for good reason. However, since Scientific Journals are now pretty much all online, that's not necessarily so.
Along my many travels, I worked as a lab assistant to pay my way throug several courses. The first assignment given to me was to thoroughly search the literature to find any and all pertinent material recently dont, acquire the paper, and syntheseze it for the research prof. Dull work...but it builds charachet! :)-->
The preposterously simple is not always so simple. Fifty years ago, plant biologists thought they had photosyntesis all wrapped up in a simple neat package. Water and carbon dioxide go in and sugar and oxygen come out....a simple rearrangement of atoms. But when they started investigating with radioisotopes and it took them almost 10 years to figure it all out.
"We are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that my soul knoweth right well"!
Hello again Krys. Wish I knew how to do the quote thing but I don't and so I'll just have to muck this thing through. Dr. James "remarkable" comment was specifically about the urine being colorless after drinking highly oxygenated water. I suspected he found it remarkable because it's what he finds after people come out of hyperbaric chambers. But i didn't have that confirmed until this week, when I talked for an hour or so with a friend of Dr. James by phone down in Atlanta. The fellows name is Lance Brubaker and he has a hyperbaric clinic (or clinics) down there and also sells hyperbaric chambers- says he has a list of 500 people waiting to buy used ones when they come up for sale. He's an engineer like I am but has spent the past twenty years in biomedical research and sounds like he has a lot of irons in the fire. More about him later, but suffice it to say that colorless urine is "unremarkable" after hyperbaric sessions. It's the norm not the exception to the norm. He knew of Penta Water but had never considered that highly oxygenated water might actually be very low grade hyperbaric treatment. (the difference being that water doesn't care how much oxygen pressure you put on it but people sure do.) I suspect that idea is what triggered Dr. James comment, as highly oxygenated water may have a role in solving the obesity problem he's dealing with as head of the UN Task force on Obesity. But guessing what another is thinking is risky business as you and I both know!
Regarding my cousin Russ, he passed away the day before Christmas last year. He'd been in a nursing home since just before Thanksgiving. The nursing home was just down the road from me and so I'd take him a two liter bottle of freshly made water (now called Pneuma Water- thanks to Kit's logo making abilities) each morning and tell the nurses to give it to him when he was thirsty. The next day I'd take him another bottle and removed the previous days- unused.
Finally I asked the nurse why they didn't give him the water and she replied, "What's wrong with our water?" I wanted to strangle her but instead replied, "your water doesn't have 75 parts per million oxygen in it." She looked at me as if I were nuts. Maybe if I'd have said 75 milligrams per liter she would have thought I was a geneous.
I even set up a meeting with the nursing home doctor and Doris, Russ's wife. We showed up for the meeting but the doctor didn't. So Russ didn't get the water even though I brought it every day. He was in much too weak a condition to get it for himself and a few days before he died he said, "It's just not any fun having no energy." He wanted to get home for Christmas but just didn't make it. By the way, he was the only guy in the world that could make mother laugh no matter how fould her mood might be. I always knew it was him on the phone because within fifteen seconds she'd be laughing her head off and his off colored stories or jokes.
Had I known what I know today, I'd have gotten him a portable hyperbaric chamber (they cost $15,000- $20,000) got him out of that godforsaken nursing home and home to his family- who easily could have gotten him into the chamber once or twice a day for an hour to an hour and a half, at a pressure of 1.5 atmospheres absolute or 8 psig, about one third of the pressure in your car tires- not what an engineer would call serious pressure at all. Maybe that's why it's given the fancy name hyperbaric chamber instead of pressure vessel. Like Crocidile Dundee when he looked at the kids switch blade and then pulled out his bowie knife and said, "That ain't no knife, this is a knife!"
If you doubt me about the effect a hyperaric chamber would have had on Russ, see if you can get a copy of Hyperbaric Medicine Today, Vol II, Issue II, April-September 2003. In it is an article entitled "Good bye to Dr. Edward Teller" (he was known as the Father of the H Bomb). He received hyperbaric oxygen treatments 6 days a week for a total of 3,000 treatments with no signs of toxicity whatsoever and worked on an underground neucular reactor he had conceptualized up until days before he died at 95 years of age.
Brubaker tells me that if I ever want to get a doctor in trouble (at least a health insurance/medicaid paid kind of doctor- which is most of them), all I need to do is call my insurance company and tell them that the doctor has recommended hyperbaric treatments and they'll be on the phone to him within minutes to castigate him for doing so- even if he didn't!
I also asked him if the congressional hearings on hyperbaric therapy had been held this past spring and he said that they had and medicaid had added MS victims to the list of "approved conditions" for hyperbaric treatment that medicaid would pay for. Each MS victim evidently costs Medicaid a million dollars so that was a no brainer. He added that they didn't approve stroke victims for addition to the "approved" list since it would bankrupt social security if everyone that had stroked fully recovered and received their social security checks for perhaps twenty years longer than otherwise. As he put it, it's the politics of death.
In Russ's case, he had plenty of money to do it without relying on medicaid. The trouble is that the doctors all know about hyperbarics but won't tell patients and won't recommend it, nor can you use the chambers that are in every hospital even if you are willing to pay for it yourself. So like all that water on the grocery shelves these days (a good portion of which are probably just tag alongs with no oxygen added at all) we're faced with private hyperbaric clinics popping up as the cat gets fairly out of the bag regarding the ever growing list of benificial uses for hyperbarics. Football players use the portable ones (that only go up to 4 psi or slightly higher) to stop bruising after games or to recover from exercise faster so they can do more exercise. There's even hyperbaric chambers at some of the major race tracks and for $500 you can do what is called "oxygen doping" which is perfectly legal prior to a race by puting the horse in a hyperbaric chamber for an hour. It won't make a $4,000 claimer into a Secretariat, but it surely will make him a better $4,000 claimer. More importantly to me is a horse that is injured will heal up faster and better with hyperbaric therapy.
By the way Krys, the Penta Water you bought didn't fizz because it's not saturated with oxygen. It's 40-50 ppm, which is far better than any of the other commercial products I've tested, but saturation is 75 ppm at 32 F and it has to be far above 75ppm before you see the characteristic milky color. The Pneuma Water I make (that's easier to say than "highly oxygenated water" all the time- thanks Kit!) is pressurized to 80 psi, or 6 atmospheres absolute, a pressure that would kill a person. It generally measures around 400 ppm when measured under pressure and so it's the 325 ppm that flashes off to the atmosphere that causes the pssst and the milkiness. And you won't even see it then unless the container you're pouring it into is high and narrow.
Oh, about Newton, physics and collisions. Three of my favorite courses in college were Thermodynamics, Physical Chemistry and Gas Dynamics. Seems I usually loved what everybody else hated! Anyway, the kenitic theory of gasses does a pretty good job of tying in the velocity of gas molecules with their temperature. And to simplify things we usually say they are ideal gasses, which means that all the collisions are elastic collisions and so no reactions are taking place. In organic reactions the rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles for each ten degree rise in temperature- which is why a horses core body temperature can get up to 115 F after a race and they must be walked until they cool down or they will die. They expend so much energy that they lose something like 30 pounds just running a six furlong race. Remember that fuel plus oxygen produces CO2 plus H2O plus energy. Of the energy produced two thirds or more goes to heat and less than a third to contracting muscle tissue. The heat makes the reaction rate increase and finally the anaerobic threshhold is reached and the horse runs out of gas as he starts slowing down due to the anaerobic processes being much less efficient than the aerobic ones are.
Am I close to what really happens from a biologists point of view or have I missed something inportant?
quote:Remember that fuel plus oxygen produces CO2 plus H2O plus energy.
It's not quite as simple as that.
If you were working with an inanimate system, that would be the likely scene, but living systems are a whole new ball game.
Heat in humans usually is dissipated by sweat or hard breathing....same with horses.
Although many biologcal molecules can be used as fuel, I'll start with glucose, since everything is converted to that or something close to that.
There are 3 distinct biochemical pathways used by living cells to produce energy. Oxygen is used at the end of the last stage! So, the limiting factor in the process is the quantity of oxygen at the muscles. When this is limited or gone, muscles go into "oxygen debt" - whereby they use only the first of these distince processes....and it does not produce very much energy.
If the body can't bring enough oxygen to the system, the end product of the first process is lactic acid. It is a muscle irritant. That's why you have sore muscles when you overdo it. In a few hours or days....the body will eventually provide enough oxygen and the irritation will go away.
It's not heat which regulates the system, but the quantity of oxygen.
Hello Excathy. If you type in hyperbaric chambers into your search engine you can hopefully find a hyperbaric clinic near wherever it is that your mom's husband lives. There is one in Atlanta that I know about as well as one in Cincinnati and one in Mansfield, Ohio.
The one in Cincinnati charges $100 per treatment (takes about an hour and a half) and the one in Atlanta charges $55-$75 per treatment depending on how many treatments are done. I don't know yet what the one in Mansfield charges but will call them tomorrow.
But it gives you an idea that the cost is not only bearable by the rich and famous. My guess is that your mom's husband is paying more than that in meds now. I don't know how many treatments it will take but the folks at the clinics should know.
Allow me to offer a long quote from another article in Hyperbaric Medicine Today, in the issue mentioned in a previous post here. The article is entitled "Medicare's Noncovered Conditions: a conversation with Dr, George B. Hart", by David Freels.
..................
Freels: "Where did the second list come from, the 'Noncovered' list?"
Dr. Hart: "It came from me."
Freels: "You're kidding. Why?"
Dr. hart: "I told Social Security that I didn't want to be on the committee, but they kept asking. So finally I said yes. Under one condition."
Freels: "What?"
Dr. Hart: "That they let me add the 'Noncovered' list."
Freels: "Why?"
Dr. hart: "Because one day this guy came to my office. He was a very, very, very senior government official, who's name you would recognize. He came into my office and pointed his finger at me and said, 'you will not, under any circumstances, approve Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy for stroke.' 'Why not', I said, 'It works.' 'I don't care,' he said, 'I'm not going to let you do it.' 'But it works,' I said, 'You know it works.' 'I don't care,' he said, 'it'll break the bank, and I'm not going to let you do it. You're not going to approve this for stroke, and that's an order.' 'An order?' I asked. I was an officer in the United States Navy. Im retired now, I was given an order, and I had to obey it."
Freels: "What did he mean by 'break the bank?'"
Dr Hart: "He thought the country would go bankrupt if we treated everybody who had a stroke. At that time there were probably less than a hundred chambers in the whole country. Maybe just 30 or 40."
Freels: "Who was this who gave you the order?"
Dr. Hart: "I can't say, but you'd recognize the name if I told you. Listen, I've treated so many retired Navy officers who've stroked, I've put them in the chamber and they've made a complete recovery."
Freels: "So Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy works for stroke?"
Dr. Hart: "Of course it works. It works for stroke better than just about anything else, except maybe DCS."
Freels: "DCS?"
Dr. Hart: Decompression sickness. The bends. It hits scuba divers. Listen, if they made HBO available for everything it works for, three forths of the nursing homes in this country would shut down inside of six months. Everybody would go home. They wouldn't need them. It works for stroke, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's- Alzheimer's, let me tell you. See, there's a very real, very serious disease where the vascular tissue breaks down in the brain with age. Creates dementia, senility. What everybody now calls Alzheimer's."
Freels: "Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy works for Alzheimer's?"
Dr. hart: "Of course it does. You just can't wait until they are blithering idiots before you give it to them. You've got to give it to them early enough in the disease process. If you wait until their brains are mush it's not going to do them any good at all."
Freels: "Do you realize what you're telling me? You're telling me there really was somebody on the grassy knoll in Dallas."
Dr. Hart: "Listen, I spent my entire career working for the government. Anybody who works for the government as long as I did can tell you stories like this. I don't care what department or agency they work for. Everybody could tell you something like what I've just told you."
.................
That quote is by no means the entire article, but it does give good evidence that hyperbaric treatments work for stroke victims. Since the Medicare regs regarding HBO were first established in 1971, I rather think that the "very, very, very senior government official" was President Nixon because he was in office at the time, was an ex navy guy as I recall, and had flibitus (sp) which probably caused him to stroke. If Dr. Hart was a navy officer of senior enough rank, he might have used "very senior" of an officer considerably above him in the chain of command. He might have used two vary's if talking about the secretary of the Navy, but "very, very, very, senior government official, who's name you would recognize" seems to me that can only be one guy, the Commander-in-Chief!
And the fact that there may have been less than a hundred hyperbaric chambers in the country at the time would hardly be a reason for such a man to be concerned that building hundreds or thousands, or even millions more of them might break the bank.
These are not CTScan's we're talking about that cost millions of dollars each. An engineer wouldn't even consider them a serious pressure vessel, no more than they would consider a water pipe in the ground at the base of a water tower sticking a hundred feet in the air. An oxygen bottle, filled with oxygen to 2,500 psig, now that's pressure! And no matter how many bells and whistles are put on a chamber for safety, fire hazzard, or simply to raise the price, they cannot be really big ticket items, nor more than a Porshe or Lincoln is.
But if stroke victims receiving social security all, or even the majority of them, recovered completely from stroke and lived twenty years longer than they otherwise would, now that would break the back of the social security system.
But social security is, and has been since it's inception, one huge Ponza Scheme and is doomed to fail sooner or later and so anyone relying on it to survive is surely "leaning on the arm of man" which Paul cautions against! Oops, maybe they should have read his Epistles with a little more serious intent! My experience is that he wasn't lying!
Hello again Krys. Sorry if I led you to believe that heat was a reactant in chemical reactions- organic or inorganic. It certainly isn't, at least not in combustion reactions or metabolic reactions. There may be some endothermic (takes in heat) reactions in the body that I don't know of but I trust most are exothermic (gives off heat). So heat is the result of a biochemical reaction (or series of reactions as you point out) not the cause of them.
What I was trying to get across is that as oxygen reacts with glucose, heat is given off along with CO2 and Water and so the first thing that happens is the temperature starts going up, which increses the RATE of the reaction- the speed of the collisions and the energy of impact they have when they smack into each other.
I know that all the reactions in the human body are much more orderly and happen much more slowly than those in the combustion chamber of a cylinder in a car because they all happen in aqueous solution around 100 degrees F while those in a car take place at 2000-3000 degrees F in a gasseous state. And so the one is called combustion and the other metabolism but they are the same basic reaction (with lots of side reactions), namely fuel + oxygen yields CO2 plus H2O + heat, if they go to completion.
In the case of the human (or animal) the nose takes in the oxygen (air), the mouth takes in the food, and the products of combustion go out the tail pipe, (feces, urine), or the radiator (skin and lungs) with small amounts being clipped away as hair or finger and toe nails. That's about it, pretty simple (and yet so profound).
By the way, the horse has a lot smaller surface area to weight ratio than humans do and so staying cool is a problem for them. A human would die long before a horse if our core temperature rose to 115 deegrees F. They commonly go of their feed if not cooled down fast enough or thoroughly enough as the digestive bacteria are killed by the heat build up in the digestive tract.
Their normal body temperature is about the same as ours but they are a truly remarkable running machine. Their heart rates can get up to 230 beats per minute at maximum effort, their spleen normally sequesters and then releases up to 50% more hemoglobin when the heart rate goes above 160 bpm, and because of special hair on their bodies they can withstand cold much better than we can- provided they are out of the wind.
Anyway, my "preposterously simple" comment was not meant in any way to disparage simplicity. I think Tremendous Jones was spot on with his "see it big, keep it simple" First Law of Leadership.
In the case of our own health I think we've allowed the medical profession to convince us that it's not possible for the average man or woman to understand their own body and how it functions and so we need to impoverish ourselves with health insurance and rely on them exclusively when we get sick. I mean, they are all brilliant and the rest of us dummies, and besides, everyone knows that God sent doctors to heal us- far be it for Him to do so himself!
But I know of numerous students who couldn't make the grade in engineering school but went on in medicine, but I know of none who flunked out of medical school and went into engineering. So who's kidding who? No doubt there are brilliant doctors, but there are also many who are bringing that profession down to the level of lawyers, which are fast becoming more hated than used car salesmen.
I read a telling article the other day written by a guy who'd just come back from China. He pointed out that their politicians were all engineers while ours are all lawyers. I thought, "Yep, they're interested in building a nation and we're interested in stealing and plundering from ours." When I first read the article quoted in my last post to excathy, I was outraged to think that our government has known for the last thirty years or more that hyperbaric therapy is effective in the treatment of stroke and many other health problems and yet I doubt that anyone on this board has ever heard his or her doctor even mention the word hyperbaric let alone suggested it's use for anybody.
You asked me last week Krys how I knew Russ was out of oxygen when he grabbed on to the desk and slowly fell to the floor while going to get a drink of water at the Cleveland Clinic. It was a simple conclusion for me to reach as he wasn't malnourished, never missed a doctors appointment, wasn't knocked over by a hammer to the head, and had just had a drink of water and was not dehydrated. His skelital muscles just refused to hold him up- the "oxygen debt" you mentioned in yourlast post got forclosed on!
There's lots more to discuss regarding highly oxygenated water and it's therapeutic effect on the body so hopefully I haven't already worn everybody out with my long posts. But since some are sure to figure I'm bragging with the above info on doctors vs engineers, I might as well tell another story.
When I was studying to get my masters degree in eduation one of the professors I knew came up to me after he'd learned that I was an engineer. He said, "You know, engineers are the most creative people in the world." It sounded strange to me because we'd always been called "slide rule" or "dipstick" back in the days when I was an undergraduate, by those who were not engineering students. (I now figure they were jealous!) And even since then the field of engineering hasn't enjoyed the same PR success as doctors or lawyers enjoy. Hell, even the garbage man is called a "Sanitary Engineer" these days.
I'd always thought of "creative" people as those into art, not science. But in one of my courses I learned about a process of teaching called Synectics, a powerful teaching tool based on the fact that creativity is not inherited but learned- sort of like "emagineering" or the power of positive thinking, except quite structured and real. And I realized that engineers did that all the time without even knowing it was Synectics.
So I'll leave you all with an assignment. Imagine yourselves as an oxygen molecule in the body and ask yourselves how you feel as you travel around the intergalactic space with the next oxygen molecule light years away from you. Where will you go, who wants you, how will you handle rejection, how many dead cells do you see, what happens if you get cold or warm, what happens if you marry some carbon atom and become CO2. In other words, try to examine the feeling side of things. I think you'll learn a lot about oxygen and water in the process- no matter your background or educational level.
David -- not to de-rail here, but are you the author of "THE TWO WAYS OF THE FIRST CENTURY CHURCH" ? Imo -- that is just as good (for the spiritual side of man), as the oxygenated water is for the physical. :)-->
Hello dmiller. Yes, I'm the same guy that wrote "The Two Ways of the First Century Church". It was first published in 1989 and I still get requests for hard copies even though it's been on my web site since I think 1996. For those who would like to read it online (for free!) the link is http://www.en.com/users/anders
In a sense, the book of Acts is the focal point of Christianity like oxygen is the focal point of the body. Without understanding Acts, one cannot understand Paul's Epistles because Acts is the setting in which Paul lived and wrote.
So also, without understanding oxygen, one cannot hope to understand the body. About two thirds of the entire body is oxygen! In fact, last year the Nobel Prize in chemistry was given to folks at the University of Chicago and the University of California-San Francisco for their work with ..... water! (and almost 90% of water is oxygen- 16 18th's of it to be exact).
What these folks did was show how water molecules enter a cell through what is called aquaporin (sort of a Roman aquaduct in miniture). If you consider a water molecule to look like a Mickey Mouse head, then the ears are the hydrogen atoms and the face is the oxygen atom. The top of the ears has a slightly positive charge and the bottom of the face has a slightly negative charge. So they showed that the cell membrane is five water molecules thick and so the aquaporin holds five water molecules. so far not really anything new. But what was new was that they showed that as the water molecules line up single file to pass thru the membrane, they start out with the face of Mickey Mouse going into the aquaporin first and the ears last, but half way through the passage they are turned around so that the ears of Mickey Mouse come out first, causing any stray protons (H+ ions) to be repelled so they don't escape from the cell and cause the cell to die. Until these guys did the world's largest private computer simulation, it was always a big question mark as to what prevented H+ ions from leaking out of a cell. It is one of those preposterously simple things- that never was simple before a couple of years ago when they did the work and then became famous once they got the Nobel Prize.
There was another guy back in the fifties that got the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his work showing that all cancer was caused by a lack of oxygen. That finding is being questioned today but I think the guys who are questioning it are straining out gnats and swallowing camels. I think his name was Otto Warburg.
By the way, I wish the fellow that talked about proper breathing would amplyfy the subject here. It's another of those things that is never taught because it's too simple. But fact is we don't take care of ourselves, take lots of things for granted, and consequently the hemoglobin in our systems gets weaker aws we age. And, whereas it will release oxygen at a partial pressure of 39 mm Hg when we are young, by the time we're 40 that's down 10% and by the time we're 60 it's down 20%- sort of like a tire slowly going flat.
And when we get sick, our immune systems demand all the oxygen it can get so there is none left to think straight or run laps around the gym. Instead, we lay in bed because we don't have the strength to get up. And we don't use our brain either but mostly sleep.
Turns out that the immune system works best when the oxygen partial pressure reaches 50-80 mm Hg- which is why hyperbaric chambers are good for so many things. And although oxygen saturated water won't quite get the partial pressure up to 50 mm hg, it will get it about 20% higher after drinking a sixteen ounce glass than it was before doing so. And that increased pressure lasts a good hour or more (according to Dr. Pakdaman and the work he did with cancer patients back in the late sixties, who's oxygen partial pressure at the cell level was 20 mm Hg or below and went up to above 30 mm Hg within five minutes of drinking water oxygenated to 50 ppm- and stayed there for over an hour).
So yes, I'm the same guy. And I'm the same guy that promoted V.P. Wierwille's P.F.A.L.class and got him to put it on film and then trapsed around the country with it to show people how to use projectors so the next time I wouldn't have to be there, and they wouldn't wipe out a $10,000 set of films because they didn't know how to run a projector.
No doubt lots of others could have done what I did, but at the time I was the only guy around that was willing to quit a good paying engineering job and hit the road at my own expense and not charge anybody a dime for my time. (that's pretty unusual for an engineer, or a doctor, or a lawyer, you'll have to admit.)
As time went by lots of others showed up for "work" and I only bemoan the fact that Townsend, the guy who put Avis Rent-a-car on the map, was right ,in his book, he said that the last act of a dying organization was to get out a new and enlarged edition of the rule book.
And so my gripe with twi was, and is, with the "corporate insiders" who just had to control the folks doing the work and thereby prevent them from walking by the spirit. Like Jesus said of the lawyers of his time, "You compass land and sea to make one prosylite, and then make him twofold the child of hell as yourself."
So this is my third major project in life. Sometimes I sure wish I had the money I passed up doing the other two projects. But some things are just too important to neglect, even if there is no paycheck coming in.
feels like visiting an old neighborhood cafe after having been on a long wild trip.
and hello again, David. thanks for the invite, sir.
i've enjoyed peeking at your thread from time to time.
i almost didn't catch this...(and gawsh, I do hope you were talking about what I wrote...)
quote:By the way, I wish the fellow that talked about proper breathing would amplify the subject here.
(btw - if you haven't yet, you should look into private topics sometime. we get automatic email notification when someone starts one. kinda cool. )
well, i wouldn’t call anything i say “proper†;)-->
but thanks a mil for making such a big-little space for this.
rare thing to find out there. i tell ya.
permit me to ramble a sec...
(an hour goes by)
ok, i’ve tried to write out a coherent response, but words fail me at times. or rather, overwhelm me at times. what a vast, complex subject, breathwork. just looking at it, i would hate to be held responsible for such a rambling mess (which is why i prefer singing, i guess. if I could, I would hang out and sing all day...).
so I’ll just try to summarize....
I am currently studying and practicing viewing breathwork on many levels, moving back-and-forth from an inwardly individual perspective to outwardly collective perspective (and all points in between). i could write a book, but i'm still too busy reading it. maybe in a decade or so. who knows...
so, what in particular did i say that got your attention...?
that helps me a ton.
i’m no expert or anything. but i’ve read and done a lot of things.
and i see quite a few things that keep our modern western society and individuals from exploring the “gift of breath†as any sort of high priority (let alone any prime directive):
(i hope no one hates me after i post it. its nothing personal, honestly. its off the top of my head...)
- fundamentalisms grip on shallower scriptural and traditional meanings of breathing and spirit and soul and such (globally, it seems)
- ego-trips and shallow bad examples and commercialized versions of breathwork (let alone anything metaphysical or mystical)
- a fear/ignorance/hate/whatever of east and old (yoga, prana, ayurveda, etc...)
- a fear/ignorance/hate/whatever of west and new (psychology, technology, etc...)
- unhealthy relationship between business and science and medicine and healing.
- a societal ADD (impatience is possibly the #1 block to any breathwork).
- self-destructive and emotionally addictive diets and habits (not to mention off-the-charts wastefulness)
- smoking and pollution and air/water that is damaging to way more than just the lungs (also to the heart and mind).
and as much as I love this forum and the people of it (all us greezy greezers :)--> )
(clink!) and considering...there is a lot of taboo and cynicism here (mwah).
also a lot of old and new illness, which makes it even harder to approach a new topic with the required compassion and care, especially if one also has to aggressive defend what yer talking about at the same time. what a drain. especially considering how many are sick and how such free, simple things like breathwork can help whatever else they are doing to get better.
who knows...maybe cuz I mentioned it up front, this won’t attract a dogpile of Penn and Tellers (who cracks me up-btw-such lovable a$$holes). and so we can get on with things.
btw – I don’t think this place is not uniquely ill or anything (though it is unique)...
...welcome to earth, 2004, I guess. And I am somewat of a freak.
;)-->
anyway, now, for a little of the amplification you requested...:)-->
...on a more positive note
in my personal life, i have understood and practiced and experienced breathwork in some of the following ways (but I’ll stick to the physical mostly)...
- to aid in processing food (the better the food, the better the relationship with breath)
- to massage and stimulate vital organs (comes in handy for dealing with all sorts of "lower" things - especially during the holidays!)
- to generate more compassion in my heart and body (this can even get euphoric and blissful)
- to open up and oxygenate cavities in the body and throat and skull (oxygenating the brain)
- to heat and cool various centers (such as hormonal) of the body/mind
- to help sustain and intensify and deepen sex and affection (for both, of course)
- to help guide energy and concentration and compassion in bodywork techniques
- as a very potent centering aspect of prayer and meditation (and lucid dreamwork)
- to get thru this groovy video game that measures heartrate and biofeedback
and I’m sure I missed quite a few...
warning, you can overdo it with breath. (of course I have). which is why I try not to get into too much detail. but the info is out there. or I’ll get specific in private.
just be safe. have fun. wise as serpents, harmless as doves, right?
and, by far, my most favorite and endearing expression of all my breathwork (and diet) is right from the Bible. From Genesis to Revelation, yada yada... Anything I learn about breathwork from east and west (and north and south) continues to amplify what sits right in that canon. hmmmm....
Anyway, as always, also feel free to email or private message for details.
But note, I am more of a wandering minstrel than a bona fide expert.
so i aint selling anything or making promises.
Take it or leave it.
thanks again for opening it up, David.
and judging from all your work and experience in this kind of subject, i look forward to and honor whatever might resonate here.
peace,
+ODD
p.s...start thinking of all air as your food and all food as your medicine...see what happens
reading thru again, David, and this really caught my attention...
quote:Seems to me that the biggest flaw in science is that there is far too much analysis and far to little synthesis- especially cross-disciplinary synthisis. It's sort of like taking a rose apart pedal by pedal, weighing each pedal, getting it's chemical composition, maybe speculating on how it might tie in with black holes in space or Darwins Theory, and no one willing to say, "Hey, stop destroying all those roses!" when far fewer would have to be destroyed if the physicists, chemists, biologists, psychologists, physiologists, engineers, et al, shared their findings and what was left of the roses they destroyed when they were through with them.
But no, each has to have his own rose stash to ruin and pays little attention to what the others are finding. For not one of them can put the roses back together again and return them to their former glory. All of them together can't even do that- but they sure have a better shot at it than any single discipline does.
I did not respond to this the first time I read it (that quoted in sirguessalot's last quote above.)
David: This is the way science used to be. I don't perceive that it's correct today.
I used to teach my students a simple statement: Science seeks to know; technology puts the science to use.
For a long time, all there was was science. Eventually some of the technology became useful enough tht people began to use it for their own purposes - - not just government and universities but the general populace. Cordless phones, small personal computers, better vacuums and more efficient refrigerators.
All the sciences do communicate with all the rest better now than earlier....because of technology.
At this moment in time, my opinion is that science is puxhing technology to go farther and do more while technology is asking science for more information to do a better job.
Thanks Todd- or should I say SirGuessalot? Unfortunately, when I go to "Private Topics" my computer gives me a dire warning that it will shut down and never talk to me again if I don't get out immediately. I had the same problem when I tried to respond to Krys's Private Topic.
I've been thinking about puting my computer in a hyperbaric chamber at about 100 atmospheres, or maybe give it some hydrotherapy under serious oxygen pressure. But then it's just possible that I should learn the rudiments of how the darn things work first- like how to insert a quote from a previous message into one I'm composing!
What caught my attention about your original post was, "The breath is most likely the most diverse and powerful biological biological tools we have." Everything else does depend on it after all. WE can go for at least 40 days without food and suffer no biological damage (ie, Jesus and John the Baptist), we can probably go a week without water if we're not in the Mojave in July, but we can't go more than a few minutes wihtout breathing- even if we're under water and don't want to!
And so it seems to me that we could do without the study of foods until long after we study water. And we can do without the study of water until long after we study oxygen. (That presumes that we'd logically want to study what is most important first rather than last- the See It Big, Keep It Simple routine instead of the See It Small And Then Coimplicate The hell Out Of What Little Is Seen routine.
Oh, and don't feel like you have to be an expert on any subject just to post here. Actually, I don't think there is any such thing as an expert, other than the common understanding that an expert is a common man away from home.
Anyway, thanks again for the posts. I've read them a couple, three, times and will have to go back over them a few more times to let what you said sink in- especially the last suggestion about considering breathing as food and food as medicine. Seems there is a lot of overmedication going on!!
quote:I've been thinking about putting my computer in a hyperbaric chamber at about 100 atmospheres, or maybe give it some hydrotherapy under serious oxygen pressure. But then it's just possible that I should learn the rudiments of how the darn things work first- like how to insert a quote from a previous message into one I'm composing!
lol!
ok, this is how i do it...
- first, click and hold to shade the text you want to copy.
- once selected, hold down the "Ctrl" button and hit the "c" button.
- (this takes a temporary snapshot of the shaded text)
- then, on the GSC Reply window, click on the blue square that looks like this: "..."
- you'll see two bracketed "quotes" appear in your message.
- set yer cursor between the brackets, and then hit "Ctrl" and "v" to paste that snapshot.
give it a shot when you get a chance, see how it works. :)-->
re: the private messaging problem...from the humorous way you described it, I can't tell if its user error or a glitch in your acount. Sounds like the latter, tho. If you figure it out, let me know. Either way, I look forward to your further replies.
After PFAL and such, I can really appreciate this approach to just about anything:
quote:the See It Big, Keep It Simple routine instead of the See It Small And Then Complicate The hell Out Of What Little Is Seen routine.
In a world where anecdotal or apochryphal evidence garners as much (or more!) credence as anything else we're guaranteed to spend an awful lot of time wandering down blind alleys and clearing out smoke from our nether regions.
Hey Todd, it worked!
The cooler is manufactured by Oxygen Technologies, which claims:
"We are being more and more deprived of precious oxygen in the modern environment, and it is causing serious health problems as numerous studies and researches on Oxygen Deficiency have proved."
Today's oxygen level in the air is far less than in ancient times (oxygen content was 38% 10,000 years ago, compared to the 21% it is now) and getting worse due to pollution and industrialization."
The oxygen cooler " provides more oxygen to the blood cells to enhance the body's ability to fight infectious bacteria, microbes, and viruses. Oxygen also acts as a cleaner, it cleans excreta and those toxins left in the body."
Wow, it worked again- and this time I'd gone to the link quoted above and then quoted from it. Ah, this opens a whole new world to me! I can now discuss what someone has said and not have to type all there statments over and over again. Now if I can just remember what you told me for the indefinate future, why they just might pass me from third to forth grade in computerease school. Thanks again, a major find!
So the first quote is from George Aars post of Dec. 5 at 14:15, the second in his series of why oxygenated water is nonsense. This time he gives a link to Dr. Barrett, MD, and the MD designation gives it quite a bit more weight than merely being "the Amazing Randi". I sugggest eaveryone go to that link and read it, because it seems the Mellenium Water Cooler has been on the market since at least 2001, and evidently is commercially available for around $1,600.
The second quote is Dr. Barrett's quote from Millenium Coolers ad. And he defames that ad by saying their claims are just about as silly as any he'd ever seen. Hmmm, after reading that it occurred to me that this MD was probably one of those guys that flunked out of engineering school and went into something easier- like medical school!
Without going into his slight of hand about "heme" at this point, Dr. Barrett shows his ignorance in a number of ways- just like all those folks, preachers and non preachers alike, back in the 60's that knew PFAL was total nonsense without ever having taken the course!
The thing that struck me first was how "factual" he was in refuting the ad's claim that the oxygen concentration in the air 10,000 years ago was 38% rather than 21%. He gives no evidence whatsoever but rather relies on people believing him rather than Mellenium Cooler since he's an MD.
Quite frankly, I can't imagine either of them knowing in the slightest what happened 10,000 years ago since there is no historical record going that far back in history. If one believes that Genesis is a historical record (which I do), it's easy to get back from the flood to Adam because there is an exact geneology, complete with age at birth and age at death to get from one to the other. As I recall it's 1,656 years. From the flood til now depends on who's calculations you think are more accurate, but suffice it to say than nobody is off a thousand years in their calculations- it's more a matter of which king was contemporary with another king and so might vary a few years here or there.
So to those who think Genesis is an accurate record, Adam goes back about 6,000 years from today's date. Who knows what happened before Adam? I sure don't. But the Dr. Barrett's of the world sure think they know, and all without any more evidence than have! Hmmm, who's dumber, me for saying I don't know or Dr. Barrett for saying he does know when he doesn't?
But as long as we're theorizing, when Genesis says that God put the rainbow in the sky after the flood- a very visable sign (at least if the sun is behind you, some water droplets are in front of you, and the angle is 42 degrees from your eyes to the rainbow and back to the sun) recording God's promise to Noah, it presumes that there was no rainbow prior to the flood and therefore all the H2O in the atmosphere was a gas and not liquid droplets.
Hmmm, that seems to fit quite nicely with the record in Genesis that there was no rain prior to the flood but rather water vapor went up in the morning and settled to the ground in the evening. Could it be that there was far less nitrogen in the atmosphere prior to the flood than there is today and consequently a much higher percentage of oxygen? Could it be that this is why preflood man lived to an average age of 900 years instead of 70 or 80?
Sure would like to know the reasoning and data behind Mellenium Coolers claim that the atmosphere 10,000 years ago was 38% oxygen rather than 21%. I assume the reasoning starts with the assumption that there was a flood in the time of Noah. And that's no doubt a better assumption than Dr. Barret's assumption that there wasn't- ie. how does Dr. Darrett explain the rainbow?
Oops, I hit the "post now" button before I was finished. Sorry about that.
One of the supposedly rediculous things about Mellenium Water Coolers is the outrageously high cost-$1,600. Now I'd love to see them around $5 myself as I'd get one in a heart beat and drink my own Penta Water without having to pay $1.83 for a 16 oz bottle of it. But I'd still have to pay for the distilled water or spring water I put on top of the cooler, and I'd still have to pay for the electricity to run the refrigeration unit and the molecular sieve (or whatever it is) that seperates the nitrogen in the air from the oxygen. So I might as well bitch about the high cost of electricity or the high cost of airconditioners or the high cost of molecular sieves, or even the high cost of "normal" water coolers as to think the Mellenium Cooler is outrageously priced. In other words, it appears that the Mellenium Water Cooler is more than a piece of sheet metal. And if Dr. Barrett is any kind of a medical doctor at all, there are no doubt many pieces of equipment he's used that cost lots more than a Mellenium Water Cooler, and he'
s not complaining about the cost of them!
Actually, my reference to Penta Water is somewhat unfair because they have a patent on their water, whether they oxygenate it or not. The Patent number is 6,521,248 in case anybody wants to look it up and read the patent. It's billed as the world's only patented water. It's a process patent- not on how they oxygenated their water but on how they process it to get the "mer" as in polymer (a five water molecule cluster)- which may or may not be how the body processes it when it goes into the circulatory system and lymph system in the small intestines.
Anyway, when I read the patent I came across a new force that I had never heard of before- London forces. Turns out they are a subset of VanderWaals forces, which are a subset of the forces that hold water molecules together, which themselves a very small forces compared to the forces that hold atoms together to form molecules. And they all are very small compared to what Netwon was thinking about when he came up with F=MA. Neverthe less, the instructions above on how to make your own oxygenated water do not infringe on their patent as there is nothing patentable about puting gas pressure over (or through) water.
Suffice it to say that the Nobel Prize in Chemistry last year had nothing to do with Penta Water as the water molecules lining up to get through aquaporin and thereby into the cell. So whether the water in the lymph is a five molecule "mer" or a thousand molecule polymer, I don't know. But it is now clear that the water molecules have to go through the cell wall in single file and do a flip flop half way through. If Penta Water helps this process, why God bless them. I rather think that it's the high oxygen concentration that people notice and therefore go back and buy more. But it could be both.
If you punch in PentaWater in your search engine you'll get their web page and if you put your zip code in a box there, they'll tell you the nearest store where you can buy it. Ah the computer age, ain't it wonderful!
They also have a page on Edema, which gets into the lymph and Krys's discussions about lymph. Apparently 2/3 of the body's water is carried inside of the cells that make up the body and 1/3 is in the extracellular space, the lymph system, and the blood system.
The water in the lymph starts with the small intestine (the Chyle) and ends with the lymph nodes, where it dumps into the circulatory (blood) system and so gets cleaned, filtered, and ultimately discharged as urine and feces. (The brown color of feses is evidently all those dead hemoglobin cells- or what is left of them after their own "digestion").
warning, you can overdo it with breath. (of course I have). which is why I try not to get into too much detail. but the info is out there. or I’ll get specific in private.
Yes, for absolute certainty to practice breathing beyond the inate, one does need an instructor that is certainly qualified as even a SCUBA Instructor, or LaMaze, or etc. Ya just can not without serious risk of injury walk ins welcome go into a gym and begin a rigorious workout and become a body builder in a week!!!
Breathing techniques can lead to serious mental strains resulting so to speak "the bends".
uhmmm a cheap eg ~~~ right now immediately do a split all the way to the floor
quote:Yes, for absolute certainty to practice breathing beyond the inate, one does need an instructor that is certainly qualified as even a SCUBA Instructor, or LaMaze, or etc.
Or a good book, or even a decent sense of self care and patience. The inner instructor can be reliable too (perhaps even more so), depending on one's style of learning. Also, what qualifies and certifies an instructor in breathwork these days is not so cut and dry. In competing for business with alternative medicines, some areas of conventional medicine are just slapping together "yoga wings" and calling them certified (not to mention how some circles of alternative medicine are as overpriced and faddish as conventional meds).
quote:Ya just can not without serious risk of injury walk ins welcome go into a gym and begin a rigorious workout and become a body builder in a week!!!
No one mentioned anything about doing such things "in a week." I do not see the value of dire warnings of "serious risk of injury"...just sitting there on the page all by themselves.
quote:Breathing techniques can lead to serious mental strains resulting so to speak "the bends".
I agree. So have fun, be careful, shop around, be patient, test and sample, get pos & neg feedback, etc... Most of all, because you care about your body and mind, your will can be as patient and loving with it as you would a wife or a child (or a bonsai tree... :)--> ).
peace dude
peace all
+ODD
p.s. David. I started a Private Topic to help you test your account. also, your account can be set up to send you an automatic email whenever someone posts a PT (so you don't have to keep checking in on them).
Hello again Krys. Thanks again for bringing up the subject of lymph and lymphatic massage. My friend Rich- the one with congestive heart disease- evidently has serious water build up around his lungs which his doctor is worried about. So I've been trying to get him into a hyperbaric chamber somewhere and as a result of that effort went down to The Get Well Clinic in Mansfield, Ohio last week as they had been referred to me by Lance Brubaker down in Atlanta.
They have one of those portable Vitaeris 320 chambers and after looking at it I've little doubt I can make one for cheep with a cattle watering trough, a piece of plexiglas for the top, a couple of Gast air compressors and an oxygen concentrator. But they are a very nice unit and I certainly don't begrudge them a profit for making them commercially available for around $20,000. Somebody had to put up lots of money to get USDA to sign off on them- which is why it's not likely any imports from China will be imported and sold for ten cents on the dollar any time soon.
Anyway, the gal that runs the Get Well Center was concerned with Rich's lung congestion and though he aught to have lymph therapy done before going into the hyperbaric chamber for fear he'd drown from his own overfilled lymph system.
It was a state of the art facility located in a new development with other medical type facilities in the development park. Her husband was a medical doctor and built the facility prior to passing away a year ago. There are two other medical doctors on the staff and so it's not located in the slums in the basement of a palm reader or witch doctor and staffed with morons.
Anyway, I had four hours to investigate until I had to get back to pick up Pastor Sander's at Death Row in Mansfield Prison (where he generally ministers to prisoners on Fridays) and so was piled up with books and literature and given free reign of the facility by Mrs. Chung. Of particular interest was one of the methods they use for lymph therapy- using a light beam generator. The literature says it works up to four times faster than lymph massage, and is what she recommended for Rich prior to going into the HBOT chamber.
Some of the literature explained that as dead cells break up, much of the debris become hydrophillic and therefore grabs on to water molecules to the point that lymph nodes get plugged up and won't let the lymph drain properly into the circulatory system.
So the light beam generator (it's end is about the size of a hockey puck, with a hose connected to an oxygen bottle) activates these hydrated debris particles and breaks them up, thereby unplugging the lymph node. In addition, the oxygen flows through the special glass surface of the hockey puck and therefore gets into the skin at the same time.
I didn't get a chance to see anyone actually being treated with it (there were perhaps a dozen patients there at the time but they were all being treated with other therapies) but it is totally noninvasive, painless, and the literature says it's as harmless as moon light. I was wondering if you were familiar with it and, if so, what you might be able to add to amplify it's method of action.
In addition to being used for such things as chest congestion from colds, congestive heart disease, etc., or to get athletes ready for such things as the 2003 Tour De France, the literature gave one dramatic example of a lady with elephantiasis- generally recognized as a nonrecoverable illness (as is congestive heart disease- at least Rich's doctor has done nothing for it other than prescribing pills and asking him how may pillows he sleeps on to keep his head elevated). In conjunction with other "responsible medicine", treatment with the light beam generator reduced the size of her legs to almost normal (from the before and after pictures it appears that the size of the legs went down to one third their former size). She evidently was given eleven two hour treatments over a period of one year and lost a total of 80 pounds, 41 pounds lost the first three months. 80 pounds works out to almost 10 gallons of water (8.3 pounds per gallon is what water weighs) that she was carrying around due to the lymph system being plugged up.
Anyway, sure would appreciate any light you have to shed on the subject.
Yes, for absolute certainty to practice breathing beyond the inate, one does need an instructor that is certainly qualified as even a SCUBA Instructor, or LaMaze, or etc.
Or a good book, or even a decent sense of self care and patience. The inner instructor can be reliable too (perhaps even more so), depending on one's style of learning. Also, what qualifies and certifies an instructor in breathwork these days is not so cut and dry. In competing for business with alternative medicines, some areas of conventional medicine are just slapping together "yoga wings" and calling them certified (not to mention how some circles of alternative medicine are as overpriced and faddish as conventional meds).
Okay sirguessalot~~~ go check out a good How To SCUBA diving book, read it and go for it.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
72
106
68
48
Popular Days
Jan 29
30
Apr 26
21
Jan 18
17
Feb 9
16
Top Posters In This Topic
Raf 72 posts
David Anderson 106 posts
krys 68 posts
oldiesman 48 posts
Popular Days
Jan 29 2005
30 posts
Apr 26 2005
21 posts
Jan 18 2005
17 posts
Feb 9 2005
16 posts
krys
Along my many travels, I worked as a lab assistant to pay my way throug several courses. The first assignment given to me was to thoroughly search the literature to find any and all pertinent material recently dont, acquire the paper, and syntheseze it for the research prof. Dull work...but it builds charachet!
:)-->
The preposterously simple is not always so simple. Fifty years ago, plant biologists thought they had photosyntesis all wrapped up in a simple neat package. Water and carbon dioxide go in and sugar and oxygen come out....a simple rearrangement of atoms. But when they started investigating with radioisotopes and it took them almost 10 years to figure it all out.
"We are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that my soul knoweth right well"!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello again Krys. Wish I knew how to do the quote thing but I don't and so I'll just have to muck this thing through. Dr. James "remarkable" comment was specifically about the urine being colorless after drinking highly oxygenated water. I suspected he found it remarkable because it's what he finds after people come out of hyperbaric chambers. But i didn't have that confirmed until this week, when I talked for an hour or so with a friend of Dr. James by phone down in Atlanta. The fellows name is Lance Brubaker and he has a hyperbaric clinic (or clinics) down there and also sells hyperbaric chambers- says he has a list of 500 people waiting to buy used ones when they come up for sale. He's an engineer like I am but has spent the past twenty years in biomedical research and sounds like he has a lot of irons in the fire. More about him later, but suffice it to say that colorless urine is "unremarkable" after hyperbaric sessions. It's the norm not the exception to the norm. He knew of Penta Water but had never considered that highly oxygenated water might actually be very low grade hyperbaric treatment. (the difference being that water doesn't care how much oxygen pressure you put on it but people sure do.) I suspect that idea is what triggered Dr. James comment, as highly oxygenated water may have a role in solving the obesity problem he's dealing with as head of the UN Task force on Obesity. But guessing what another is thinking is risky business as you and I both know!
Regarding my cousin Russ, he passed away the day before Christmas last year. He'd been in a nursing home since just before Thanksgiving. The nursing home was just down the road from me and so I'd take him a two liter bottle of freshly made water (now called Pneuma Water- thanks to Kit's logo making abilities) each morning and tell the nurses to give it to him when he was thirsty. The next day I'd take him another bottle and removed the previous days- unused.
Finally I asked the nurse why they didn't give him the water and she replied, "What's wrong with our water?" I wanted to strangle her but instead replied, "your water doesn't have 75 parts per million oxygen in it." She looked at me as if I were nuts. Maybe if I'd have said 75 milligrams per liter she would have thought I was a geneous.
I even set up a meeting with the nursing home doctor and Doris, Russ's wife. We showed up for the meeting but the doctor didn't. So Russ didn't get the water even though I brought it every day. He was in much too weak a condition to get it for himself and a few days before he died he said, "It's just not any fun having no energy." He wanted to get home for Christmas but just didn't make it. By the way, he was the only guy in the world that could make mother laugh no matter how fould her mood might be. I always knew it was him on the phone because within fifteen seconds she'd be laughing her head off and his off colored stories or jokes.
Had I known what I know today, I'd have gotten him a portable hyperbaric chamber (they cost $15,000- $20,000) got him out of that godforsaken nursing home and home to his family- who easily could have gotten him into the chamber once or twice a day for an hour to an hour and a half, at a pressure of 1.5 atmospheres absolute or 8 psig, about one third of the pressure in your car tires- not what an engineer would call serious pressure at all. Maybe that's why it's given the fancy name hyperbaric chamber instead of pressure vessel. Like Crocidile Dundee when he looked at the kids switch blade and then pulled out his bowie knife and said, "That ain't no knife, this is a knife!"
If you doubt me about the effect a hyperaric chamber would have had on Russ, see if you can get a copy of Hyperbaric Medicine Today, Vol II, Issue II, April-September 2003. In it is an article entitled "Good bye to Dr. Edward Teller" (he was known as the Father of the H Bomb). He received hyperbaric oxygen treatments 6 days a week for a total of 3,000 treatments with no signs of toxicity whatsoever and worked on an underground neucular reactor he had conceptualized up until days before he died at 95 years of age.
Brubaker tells me that if I ever want to get a doctor in trouble (at least a health insurance/medicaid paid kind of doctor- which is most of them), all I need to do is call my insurance company and tell them that the doctor has recommended hyperbaric treatments and they'll be on the phone to him within minutes to castigate him for doing so- even if he didn't!
I also asked him if the congressional hearings on hyperbaric therapy had been held this past spring and he said that they had and medicaid had added MS victims to the list of "approved conditions" for hyperbaric treatment that medicaid would pay for. Each MS victim evidently costs Medicaid a million dollars so that was a no brainer. He added that they didn't approve stroke victims for addition to the "approved" list since it would bankrupt social security if everyone that had stroked fully recovered and received their social security checks for perhaps twenty years longer than otherwise. As he put it, it's the politics of death.
In Russ's case, he had plenty of money to do it without relying on medicaid. The trouble is that the doctors all know about hyperbarics but won't tell patients and won't recommend it, nor can you use the chambers that are in every hospital even if you are willing to pay for it yourself. So like all that water on the grocery shelves these days (a good portion of which are probably just tag alongs with no oxygen added at all) we're faced with private hyperbaric clinics popping up as the cat gets fairly out of the bag regarding the ever growing list of benificial uses for hyperbarics. Football players use the portable ones (that only go up to 4 psi or slightly higher) to stop bruising after games or to recover from exercise faster so they can do more exercise. There's even hyperbaric chambers at some of the major race tracks and for $500 you can do what is called "oxygen doping" which is perfectly legal prior to a race by puting the horse in a hyperbaric chamber for an hour. It won't make a $4,000 claimer into a Secretariat, but it surely will make him a better $4,000 claimer. More importantly to me is a horse that is injured will heal up faster and better with hyperbaric therapy.
By the way Krys, the Penta Water you bought didn't fizz because it's not saturated with oxygen. It's 40-50 ppm, which is far better than any of the other commercial products I've tested, but saturation is 75 ppm at 32 F and it has to be far above 75ppm before you see the characteristic milky color. The Pneuma Water I make (that's easier to say than "highly oxygenated water" all the time- thanks Kit!) is pressurized to 80 psi, or 6 atmospheres absolute, a pressure that would kill a person. It generally measures around 400 ppm when measured under pressure and so it's the 325 ppm that flashes off to the atmosphere that causes the pssst and the milkiness. And you won't even see it then unless the container you're pouring it into is high and narrow.
Oh, about Newton, physics and collisions. Three of my favorite courses in college were Thermodynamics, Physical Chemistry and Gas Dynamics. Seems I usually loved what everybody else hated! Anyway, the kenitic theory of gasses does a pretty good job of tying in the velocity of gas molecules with their temperature. And to simplify things we usually say they are ideal gasses, which means that all the collisions are elastic collisions and so no reactions are taking place. In organic reactions the rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles for each ten degree rise in temperature- which is why a horses core body temperature can get up to 115 F after a race and they must be walked until they cool down or they will die. They expend so much energy that they lose something like 30 pounds just running a six furlong race. Remember that fuel plus oxygen produces CO2 plus H2O plus energy. Of the energy produced two thirds or more goes to heat and less than a third to contracting muscle tissue. The heat makes the reaction rate increase and finally the anaerobic threshhold is reached and the horse runs out of gas as he starts slowing down due to the anaerobic processes being much less efficient than the aerobic ones are.
Am I close to what really happens from a biologists point of view or have I missed something inportant?
Best wishes,
Dave
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i wish my mom's husband could get better. he had a stroke and his whole side is paralyzed
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
If you were working with an inanimate system, that would be the likely scene, but living systems are a whole new ball game.
Heat in humans usually is dissipated by sweat or hard breathing....same with horses.
Although many biologcal molecules can be used as fuel, I'll start with glucose, since everything is converted to that or something close to that.
There are 3 distinct biochemical pathways used by living cells to produce energy. Oxygen is used at the end of the last stage! So, the limiting factor in the process is the quantity of oxygen at the muscles. When this is limited or gone, muscles go into "oxygen debt" - whereby they use only the first of these distince processes....and it does not produce very much energy.
If the body can't bring enough oxygen to the system, the end product of the first process is lactic acid. It is a muscle irritant. That's why you have sore muscles when you overdo it. In a few hours or days....the body will eventually provide enough oxygen and the irritation will go away.
It's not heat which regulates the system, but the quantity of oxygen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello Excathy. If you type in hyperbaric chambers into your search engine you can hopefully find a hyperbaric clinic near wherever it is that your mom's husband lives. There is one in Atlanta that I know about as well as one in Cincinnati and one in Mansfield, Ohio.
The one in Cincinnati charges $100 per treatment (takes about an hour and a half) and the one in Atlanta charges $55-$75 per treatment depending on how many treatments are done. I don't know yet what the one in Mansfield charges but will call them tomorrow.
But it gives you an idea that the cost is not only bearable by the rich and famous. My guess is that your mom's husband is paying more than that in meds now. I don't know how many treatments it will take but the folks at the clinics should know.
Allow me to offer a long quote from another article in Hyperbaric Medicine Today, in the issue mentioned in a previous post here. The article is entitled "Medicare's Noncovered Conditions: a conversation with Dr, George B. Hart", by David Freels.
..................
Freels: "Where did the second list come from, the 'Noncovered' list?"
Dr. Hart: "It came from me."
Freels: "You're kidding. Why?"
Dr. hart: "I told Social Security that I didn't want to be on the committee, but they kept asking. So finally I said yes. Under one condition."
Freels: "What?"
Dr. Hart: "That they let me add the 'Noncovered' list."
Freels: "Why?"
Dr. hart: "Because one day this guy came to my office. He was a very, very, very senior government official, who's name you would recognize. He came into my office and pointed his finger at me and said, 'you will not, under any circumstances, approve Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy for stroke.' 'Why not', I said, 'It works.' 'I don't care,' he said, 'I'm not going to let you do it.' 'But it works,' I said, 'You know it works.' 'I don't care,' he said, 'it'll break the bank, and I'm not going to let you do it. You're not going to approve this for stroke, and that's an order.' 'An order?' I asked. I was an officer in the United States Navy. Im retired now, I was given an order, and I had to obey it."
Freels: "What did he mean by 'break the bank?'"
Dr Hart: "He thought the country would go bankrupt if we treated everybody who had a stroke. At that time there were probably less than a hundred chambers in the whole country. Maybe just 30 or 40."
Freels: "Who was this who gave you the order?"
Dr. Hart: "I can't say, but you'd recognize the name if I told you. Listen, I've treated so many retired Navy officers who've stroked, I've put them in the chamber and they've made a complete recovery."
Freels: "So Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy works for stroke?"
Dr. Hart: "Of course it works. It works for stroke better than just about anything else, except maybe DCS."
Freels: "DCS?"
Dr. Hart: Decompression sickness. The bends. It hits scuba divers. Listen, if they made HBO available for everything it works for, three forths of the nursing homes in this country would shut down inside of six months. Everybody would go home. They wouldn't need them. It works for stroke, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's- Alzheimer's, let me tell you. See, there's a very real, very serious disease where the vascular tissue breaks down in the brain with age. Creates dementia, senility. What everybody now calls Alzheimer's."
Freels: "Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy works for Alzheimer's?"
Dr. hart: "Of course it does. You just can't wait until they are blithering idiots before you give it to them. You've got to give it to them early enough in the disease process. If you wait until their brains are mush it's not going to do them any good at all."
Freels: "Do you realize what you're telling me? You're telling me there really was somebody on the grassy knoll in Dallas."
Dr. Hart: "Listen, I spent my entire career working for the government. Anybody who works for the government as long as I did can tell you stories like this. I don't care what department or agency they work for. Everybody could tell you something like what I've just told you."
.................
That quote is by no means the entire article, but it does give good evidence that hyperbaric treatments work for stroke victims. Since the Medicare regs regarding HBO were first established in 1971, I rather think that the "very, very, very senior government official" was President Nixon because he was in office at the time, was an ex navy guy as I recall, and had flibitus (sp) which probably caused him to stroke. If Dr. Hart was a navy officer of senior enough rank, he might have used "very senior" of an officer considerably above him in the chain of command. He might have used two vary's if talking about the secretary of the Navy, but "very, very, very, senior government official, who's name you would recognize" seems to me that can only be one guy, the Commander-in-Chief!
And the fact that there may have been less than a hundred hyperbaric chambers in the country at the time would hardly be a reason for such a man to be concerned that building hundreds or thousands, or even millions more of them might break the bank.
These are not CTScan's we're talking about that cost millions of dollars each. An engineer wouldn't even consider them a serious pressure vessel, no more than they would consider a water pipe in the ground at the base of a water tower sticking a hundred feet in the air. An oxygen bottle, filled with oxygen to 2,500 psig, now that's pressure! And no matter how many bells and whistles are put on a chamber for safety, fire hazzard, or simply to raise the price, they cannot be really big ticket items, nor more than a Porshe or Lincoln is.
But if stroke victims receiving social security all, or even the majority of them, recovered completely from stroke and lived twenty years longer than they otherwise would, now that would break the back of the social security system.
But social security is, and has been since it's inception, one huge Ponza Scheme and is doomed to fail sooner or later and so anyone relying on it to survive is surely "leaning on the arm of man" which Paul cautions against! Oops, maybe they should have read his Epistles with a little more serious intent! My experience is that he wasn't lying!
Hope this all helps excathy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello again Krys. Sorry if I led you to believe that heat was a reactant in chemical reactions- organic or inorganic. It certainly isn't, at least not in combustion reactions or metabolic reactions. There may be some endothermic (takes in heat) reactions in the body that I don't know of but I trust most are exothermic (gives off heat). So heat is the result of a biochemical reaction (or series of reactions as you point out) not the cause of them.
What I was trying to get across is that as oxygen reacts with glucose, heat is given off along with CO2 and Water and so the first thing that happens is the temperature starts going up, which increses the RATE of the reaction- the speed of the collisions and the energy of impact they have when they smack into each other.
I know that all the reactions in the human body are much more orderly and happen much more slowly than those in the combustion chamber of a cylinder in a car because they all happen in aqueous solution around 100 degrees F while those in a car take place at 2000-3000 degrees F in a gasseous state. And so the one is called combustion and the other metabolism but they are the same basic reaction (with lots of side reactions), namely fuel + oxygen yields CO2 plus H2O + heat, if they go to completion.
In the case of the human (or animal) the nose takes in the oxygen (air), the mouth takes in the food, and the products of combustion go out the tail pipe, (feces, urine), or the radiator (skin and lungs) with small amounts being clipped away as hair or finger and toe nails. That's about it, pretty simple (and yet so profound).
By the way, the horse has a lot smaller surface area to weight ratio than humans do and so staying cool is a problem for them. A human would die long before a horse if our core temperature rose to 115 deegrees F. They commonly go of their feed if not cooled down fast enough or thoroughly enough as the digestive bacteria are killed by the heat build up in the digestive tract.
Their normal body temperature is about the same as ours but they are a truly remarkable running machine. Their heart rates can get up to 230 beats per minute at maximum effort, their spleen normally sequesters and then releases up to 50% more hemoglobin when the heart rate goes above 160 bpm, and because of special hair on their bodies they can withstand cold much better than we can- provided they are out of the wind.
Anyway, my "preposterously simple" comment was not meant in any way to disparage simplicity. I think Tremendous Jones was spot on with his "see it big, keep it simple" First Law of Leadership.
In the case of our own health I think we've allowed the medical profession to convince us that it's not possible for the average man or woman to understand their own body and how it functions and so we need to impoverish ourselves with health insurance and rely on them exclusively when we get sick. I mean, they are all brilliant and the rest of us dummies, and besides, everyone knows that God sent doctors to heal us- far be it for Him to do so himself!
But I know of numerous students who couldn't make the grade in engineering school but went on in medicine, but I know of none who flunked out of medical school and went into engineering. So who's kidding who? No doubt there are brilliant doctors, but there are also many who are bringing that profession down to the level of lawyers, which are fast becoming more hated than used car salesmen.
I read a telling article the other day written by a guy who'd just come back from China. He pointed out that their politicians were all engineers while ours are all lawyers. I thought, "Yep, they're interested in building a nation and we're interested in stealing and plundering from ours." When I first read the article quoted in my last post to excathy, I was outraged to think that our government has known for the last thirty years or more that hyperbaric therapy is effective in the treatment of stroke and many other health problems and yet I doubt that anyone on this board has ever heard his or her doctor even mention the word hyperbaric let alone suggested it's use for anybody.
You asked me last week Krys how I knew Russ was out of oxygen when he grabbed on to the desk and slowly fell to the floor while going to get a drink of water at the Cleveland Clinic. It was a simple conclusion for me to reach as he wasn't malnourished, never missed a doctors appointment, wasn't knocked over by a hammer to the head, and had just had a drink of water and was not dehydrated. His skelital muscles just refused to hold him up- the "oxygen debt" you mentioned in yourlast post got forclosed on!
There's lots more to discuss regarding highly oxygenated water and it's therapeutic effect on the body so hopefully I haven't already worn everybody out with my long posts. But since some are sure to figure I'm bragging with the above info on doctors vs engineers, I might as well tell another story.
When I was studying to get my masters degree in eduation one of the professors I knew came up to me after he'd learned that I was an engineer. He said, "You know, engineers are the most creative people in the world." It sounded strange to me because we'd always been called "slide rule" or "dipstick" back in the days when I was an undergraduate, by those who were not engineering students. (I now figure they were jealous!) And even since then the field of engineering hasn't enjoyed the same PR success as doctors or lawyers enjoy. Hell, even the garbage man is called a "Sanitary Engineer" these days.
I'd always thought of "creative" people as those into art, not science. But in one of my courses I learned about a process of teaching called Synectics, a powerful teaching tool based on the fact that creativity is not inherited but learned- sort of like "emagineering" or the power of positive thinking, except quite structured and real. And I realized that engineers did that all the time without even knowing it was Synectics.
So I'll leave you all with an assignment. Imagine yourselves as an oxygen molecule in the body and ask yourselves how you feel as you travel around the intergalactic space with the next oxygen molecule light years away from you. Where will you go, who wants you, how will you handle rejection, how many dead cells do you see, what happens if you get cold or warm, what happens if you marry some carbon atom and become CO2. In other words, try to examine the feeling side of things. I think you'll learn a lot about oxygen and water in the process- no matter your background or educational level.
Happy homeworking!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
David -- not to de-rail here, but are you the author of "THE TWO WAYS OF THE FIRST CENTURY CHURCH" ? Imo -- that is just as good (for the spiritual side of man), as the oxygenated water is for the physical.
:)-->
Back to the topic......
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
thank you, david
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello dmiller. Yes, I'm the same guy that wrote "The Two Ways of the First Century Church". It was first published in 1989 and I still get requests for hard copies even though it's been on my web site since I think 1996. For those who would like to read it online (for free!) the link is http://www.en.com/users/anders
In a sense, the book of Acts is the focal point of Christianity like oxygen is the focal point of the body. Without understanding Acts, one cannot understand Paul's Epistles because Acts is the setting in which Paul lived and wrote.
So also, without understanding oxygen, one cannot hope to understand the body. About two thirds of the entire body is oxygen! In fact, last year the Nobel Prize in chemistry was given to folks at the University of Chicago and the University of California-San Francisco for their work with ..... water! (and almost 90% of water is oxygen- 16 18th's of it to be exact).
What these folks did was show how water molecules enter a cell through what is called aquaporin (sort of a Roman aquaduct in miniture). If you consider a water molecule to look like a Mickey Mouse head, then the ears are the hydrogen atoms and the face is the oxygen atom. The top of the ears has a slightly positive charge and the bottom of the face has a slightly negative charge. So they showed that the cell membrane is five water molecules thick and so the aquaporin holds five water molecules. so far not really anything new. But what was new was that they showed that as the water molecules line up single file to pass thru the membrane, they start out with the face of Mickey Mouse going into the aquaporin first and the ears last, but half way through the passage they are turned around so that the ears of Mickey Mouse come out first, causing any stray protons (H+ ions) to be repelled so they don't escape from the cell and cause the cell to die. Until these guys did the world's largest private computer simulation, it was always a big question mark as to what prevented H+ ions from leaking out of a cell. It is one of those preposterously simple things- that never was simple before a couple of years ago when they did the work and then became famous once they got the Nobel Prize.
There was another guy back in the fifties that got the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his work showing that all cancer was caused by a lack of oxygen. That finding is being questioned today but I think the guys who are questioning it are straining out gnats and swallowing camels. I think his name was Otto Warburg.
By the way, I wish the fellow that talked about proper breathing would amplyfy the subject here. It's another of those things that is never taught because it's too simple. But fact is we don't take care of ourselves, take lots of things for granted, and consequently the hemoglobin in our systems gets weaker aws we age. And, whereas it will release oxygen at a partial pressure of 39 mm Hg when we are young, by the time we're 40 that's down 10% and by the time we're 60 it's down 20%- sort of like a tire slowly going flat.
And when we get sick, our immune systems demand all the oxygen it can get so there is none left to think straight or run laps around the gym. Instead, we lay in bed because we don't have the strength to get up. And we don't use our brain either but mostly sleep.
Turns out that the immune system works best when the oxygen partial pressure reaches 50-80 mm Hg- which is why hyperbaric chambers are good for so many things. And although oxygen saturated water won't quite get the partial pressure up to 50 mm hg, it will get it about 20% higher after drinking a sixteen ounce glass than it was before doing so. And that increased pressure lasts a good hour or more (according to Dr. Pakdaman and the work he did with cancer patients back in the late sixties, who's oxygen partial pressure at the cell level was 20 mm Hg or below and went up to above 30 mm Hg within five minutes of drinking water oxygenated to 50 ppm- and stayed there for over an hour).
So yes, I'm the same guy. And I'm the same guy that promoted V.P. Wierwille's P.F.A.L.class and got him to put it on film and then trapsed around the country with it to show people how to use projectors so the next time I wouldn't have to be there, and they wouldn't wipe out a $10,000 set of films because they didn't know how to run a projector.
No doubt lots of others could have done what I did, but at the time I was the only guy around that was willing to quit a good paying engineering job and hit the road at my own expense and not charge anybody a dime for my time. (that's pretty unusual for an engineer, or a doctor, or a lawyer, you'll have to admit.)
As time went by lots of others showed up for "work" and I only bemoan the fact that Townsend, the guy who put Avis Rent-a-car on the map, was right ,in his book, he said that the last act of a dying organization was to get out a new and enlarged edition of the rule book.
And so my gripe with twi was, and is, with the "corporate insiders" who just had to control the folks doing the work and thereby prevent them from walking by the spirit. Like Jesus said of the lawyers of his time, "You compass land and sea to make one prosylite, and then make him twofold the child of hell as yourself."
So this is my third major project in life. Sometimes I sure wish I had the money I passed up doing the other two projects. But some things are just too important to neglect, even if there is no paycheck coming in.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
It is absolutely amazing what one can learn here, and the people you meet.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
hi all you fellow greasers. long time no see.
feels like visiting an old neighborhood cafe after having been on a long wild trip.
and hello again, David. thanks for the invite, sir.
i've enjoyed peeking at your thread from time to time.
i almost didn't catch this...(and gawsh, I do hope you were talking about what I wrote...)
(btw - if you haven't yet, you should look into private topics sometime. we get automatic email notification when someone starts one. kinda cool.
)
well, i wouldn’t call anything i say “properâ€
;)-->
but thanks a mil for making such a big-little space for this.
rare thing to find out there. i tell ya.
permit me to ramble a sec...
(an hour goes by)
ok, i’ve tried to write out a coherent response, but words fail me at times. or rather, overwhelm me at times. what a vast, complex subject, breathwork. just looking at it, i would hate to be held responsible for such a rambling mess (which is why i prefer singing, i guess. if I could, I would hang out and sing all day...).
so I’ll just try to summarize....
I am currently studying and practicing viewing breathwork on many levels, moving back-and-forth from an inwardly individual perspective to outwardly collective perspective (and all points in between). i could write a book, but i'm still too busy reading it. maybe in a decade or so. who knows...
so, what in particular did i say that got your attention...?
that helps me a ton.
i’m no expert or anything. but i’ve read and done a lot of things.
and i see quite a few things that keep our modern western society and individuals from exploring the “gift of breath†as any sort of high priority (let alone any prime directive):
(i hope no one hates me after i post it. its nothing personal, honestly. its off the top of my head...)
- fundamentalisms grip on shallower scriptural and traditional meanings of breathing and spirit and soul and such (globally, it seems)
- ego-trips and shallow bad examples and commercialized versions of breathwork (let alone anything metaphysical or mystical)
- a fear/ignorance/hate/whatever of east and old (yoga, prana, ayurveda, etc...)
- a fear/ignorance/hate/whatever of west and new (psychology, technology, etc...)
- unhealthy relationship between business and science and medicine and healing.
- a societal ADD (impatience is possibly the #1 block to any breathwork).
- self-destructive and emotionally addictive diets and habits (not to mention off-the-charts wastefulness)
- smoking and pollution and air/water that is damaging to way more than just the lungs (also to the heart and mind).
and as much as I love this forum and the people of it (all us greezy greezers
:)--> )
(clink!) and considering...there is a lot of taboo and cynicism here (mwah).
also a lot of old and new illness, which makes it even harder to approach a new topic with the required compassion and care, especially if one also has to aggressive defend what yer talking about at the same time. what a drain. especially considering how many are sick and how such free, simple things like breathwork can help whatever else they are doing to get better.
who knows...maybe cuz I mentioned it up front, this won’t attract a dogpile of Penn and Tellers (who cracks me up-btw-such lovable a$$holes). and so we can get on with things.
btw – I don’t think this place is not uniquely ill or anything (though it is unique)...
...welcome to earth, 2004, I guess. And I am somewat of a freak.
anyway, now, for a little of the amplification you requested...
:)-->
...on a more positive note
in my personal life, i have understood and practiced and experienced breathwork in some of the following ways (but I’ll stick to the physical mostly)...
- to aid in processing food (the better the food, the better the relationship with breath)
- to massage and stimulate vital organs (comes in handy for dealing with all sorts of "lower" things - especially during the holidays!)
- to generate more compassion in my heart and body (this can even get euphoric and blissful)
- to open up and oxygenate cavities in the body and throat and skull (oxygenating the brain)
- to heat and cool various centers (such as hormonal) of the body/mind
- to help sustain and intensify and deepen sex and affection (for both, of course)
- to help guide energy and concentration and compassion in bodywork techniques
- as a very potent centering aspect of prayer and meditation (and lucid dreamwork)
- to get thru this groovy video game that measures heartrate and biofeedback
and I’m sure I missed quite a few...
warning, you can overdo it with breath. (of course I have). which is why I try not to get into too much detail. but the info is out there. or I’ll get specific in private.
just be safe. have fun. wise as serpents, harmless as doves, right?
and, by far, my most favorite and endearing expression of all my breathwork (and diet) is right from the Bible. From Genesis to Revelation, yada yada... Anything I learn about breathwork from east and west (and north and south) continues to amplify what sits right in that canon. hmmmm....
Anyway, as always, also feel free to email or private message for details.
But note, I am more of a wandering minstrel than a bona fide expert.
so i aint selling anything or making promises.
Take it or leave it.
thanks again for opening it up, David.
and judging from all your work and experience in this kind of subject, i look forward to and honor whatever might resonate here.
peace,
+ODD
p.s...start thinking of all air as your food and all food as your medicine...see what happens
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
reading thru again, David, and this really caught my attention...
I think you might enjoy Integral Theory
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
I did not respond to this the first time I read it (that quoted in sirguessalot's last quote above.)
David: This is the way science used to be. I don't perceive that it's correct today.
I used to teach my students a simple statement: Science seeks to know; technology puts the science to use.
For a long time, all there was was science. Eventually some of the technology became useful enough tht people began to use it for their own purposes - - not just government and universities but the general populace. Cordless phones, small personal computers, better vacuums and more efficient refrigerators.
All the sciences do communicate with all the rest better now than earlier....because of technology.
At this moment in time, my opinion is that science is puxhing technology to go farther and do more while technology is asking science for more information to do a better job.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Thanks Todd- or should I say SirGuessalot? Unfortunately, when I go to "Private Topics" my computer gives me a dire warning that it will shut down and never talk to me again if I don't get out immediately. I had the same problem when I tried to respond to Krys's Private Topic.
I've been thinking about puting my computer in a hyperbaric chamber at about 100 atmospheres, or maybe give it some hydrotherapy under serious oxygen pressure. But then it's just possible that I should learn the rudiments of how the darn things work first- like how to insert a quote from a previous message into one I'm composing!
What caught my attention about your original post was, "The breath is most likely the most diverse and powerful biological biological tools we have." Everything else does depend on it after all. WE can go for at least 40 days without food and suffer no biological damage (ie, Jesus and John the Baptist), we can probably go a week without water if we're not in the Mojave in July, but we can't go more than a few minutes wihtout breathing- even if we're under water and don't want to!
And so it seems to me that we could do without the study of foods until long after we study water. And we can do without the study of water until long after we study oxygen. (That presumes that we'd logically want to study what is most important first rather than last- the See It Big, Keep It Simple routine instead of the See It Small And Then Coimplicate The hell Out Of What Little Is Seen routine.
Oh, and don't feel like you have to be an expert on any subject just to post here. Actually, I don't think there is any such thing as an expert, other than the common understanding that an expert is a common man away from home.
Anyway, thanks again for the posts. I've read them a couple, three, times and will have to go back over them a few more times to let what you said sink in- especially the last suggestion about considering breathing as food and food as medicine. Seems there is a lot of overmedication going on!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
thanks for the response, David.
:)-->
lol!
ok, this is how i do it...
- first, click and hold to shade the text you want to copy.
- once selected, hold down the "Ctrl" button and hit the "c" button.
- (this takes a temporary snapshot of the shaded text)
- then, on the GSC Reply window, click on the blue square that looks like this: "..."
- you'll see two bracketed "quotes" appear in your message.
- set yer cursor between the brackets, and then hit "Ctrl" and "v" to paste that snapshot.
give it a shot when you get a chance, see how it works.
:)-->
re: the private messaging problem...from the humorous way you described it, I can't tell if its user error or a glitch in your acount. Sounds like the latter, tho. If you figure it out, let me know. Either way, I look forward to your further replies.
After PFAL and such, I can really appreciate this approach to just about anything:
Regards,
+ODD
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hey Todd, it worked!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Oops, I hit the "post now" button before I was finished. Sorry about that.
One of the supposedly rediculous things about Mellenium Water Coolers is the outrageously high cost-$1,600. Now I'd love to see them around $5 myself as I'd get one in a heart beat and drink my own Penta Water without having to pay $1.83 for a 16 oz bottle of it. But I'd still have to pay for the distilled water or spring water I put on top of the cooler, and I'd still have to pay for the electricity to run the refrigeration unit and the molecular sieve (or whatever it is) that seperates the nitrogen in the air from the oxygen. So I might as well bitch about the high cost of electricity or the high cost of airconditioners or the high cost of molecular sieves, or even the high cost of "normal" water coolers as to think the Mellenium Cooler is outrageously priced. In other words, it appears that the Mellenium Water Cooler is more than a piece of sheet metal. And if Dr. Barrett is any kind of a medical doctor at all, there are no doubt many pieces of equipment he's used that cost lots more than a Mellenium Water Cooler, and he'
s not complaining about the cost of them!
Actually, my reference to Penta Water is somewhat unfair because they have a patent on their water, whether they oxygenate it or not. The Patent number is 6,521,248 in case anybody wants to look it up and read the patent. It's billed as the world's only patented water. It's a process patent- not on how they oxygenated their water but on how they process it to get the "mer" as in polymer (a five water molecule cluster)- which may or may not be how the body processes it when it goes into the circulatory system and lymph system in the small intestines.
Anyway, when I read the patent I came across a new force that I had never heard of before- London forces. Turns out they are a subset of VanderWaals forces, which are a subset of the forces that hold water molecules together, which themselves a very small forces compared to the forces that hold atoms together to form molecules. And they all are very small compared to what Netwon was thinking about when he came up with F=MA. Neverthe less, the instructions above on how to make your own oxygenated water do not infringe on their patent as there is nothing patentable about puting gas pressure over (or through) water.
Suffice it to say that the Nobel Prize in Chemistry last year had nothing to do with Penta Water as the water molecules lining up to get through aquaporin and thereby into the cell. So whether the water in the lymph is a five molecule "mer" or a thousand molecule polymer, I don't know. But it is now clear that the water molecules have to go through the cell wall in single file and do a flip flop half way through. If Penta Water helps this process, why God bless them. I rather think that it's the high oxygen concentration that people notice and therefore go back and buy more. But it could be both.
If you punch in PentaWater in your search engine you'll get their web page and if you put your zip code in a box there, they'll tell you the nearest store where you can buy it. Ah the computer age, ain't it wonderful!
They also have a page on Edema, which gets into the lymph and Krys's discussions about lymph. Apparently 2/3 of the body's water is carried inside of the cells that make up the body and 1/3 is in the extracellular space, the lymph system, and the blood system.
The water in the lymph starts with the small intestine (the Chyle) and ends with the lymph nodes, where it dumps into the circulatory (blood) system and so gets cleaned, filtered, and ultimately discharged as urine and feces. (The brown color of feses is evidently all those dead hemoglobin cells- or what is left of them after their own "digestion").
SIBKIS everyone!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Gee...I love the claims on this stuff. Here is the patent from the US Patent and Trademark Office: Patent 6,521,248.
Lets see:
- It cures Edema
- It cures Emphysema
- It cures Congestive Heart Failure
- It cures sinus infections and prevents colds, flu, and allergies
- It even removes stains from fabrics (claim #53)
That's some pretty neat stuff!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Yes, for absolute certainty to practice breathing beyond the inate, one does need an instructor that is certainly qualified as even a SCUBA Instructor, or LaMaze, or etc. Ya just can not without serious risk of injury walk ins welcome go into a gym and begin a rigorious workout and become a body builder in a week!!!
Breathing techniques can lead to serious mental strains resulting so to speak "the bends".
uhmmm a cheap eg ~~~ right now immediately do a split all the way to the floor
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
hi Song,
Or a good book, or even a decent sense of self care and patience. The inner instructor can be reliable too (perhaps even more so), depending on one's style of learning. Also, what qualifies and certifies an instructor in breathwork these days is not so cut and dry. In competing for business with alternative medicines, some areas of conventional medicine are just slapping together "yoga wings" and calling them certified (not to mention how some circles of alternative medicine are as overpriced and faddish as conventional meds). No one mentioned anything about doing such things "in a week." I do not see the value of dire warnings of "serious risk of injury"...just sitting there on the page all by themselves. I agree. So have fun, be careful, shop around, be patient, test and sample, get pos & neg feedback, etc... Most of all, because you care about your body and mind, your will can be as patient and loving with it as you would a wife or a child (or a bonsai tree...peace dude
peace all
+ODD
p.s. David. I started a Private Topic to help you test your account. also, your account can be set up to send you an automatic email whenever someone posts a PT (so you don't have to keep checking in on them).
Edited by sirguessalotLink to comment
Share on other sites
David Anderson
Hello again Krys. Thanks again for bringing up the subject of lymph and lymphatic massage. My friend Rich- the one with congestive heart disease- evidently has serious water build up around his lungs which his doctor is worried about. So I've been trying to get him into a hyperbaric chamber somewhere and as a result of that effort went down to The Get Well Clinic in Mansfield, Ohio last week as they had been referred to me by Lance Brubaker down in Atlanta.
They have one of those portable Vitaeris 320 chambers and after looking at it I've little doubt I can make one for cheep with a cattle watering trough, a piece of plexiglas for the top, a couple of Gast air compressors and an oxygen concentrator. But they are a very nice unit and I certainly don't begrudge them a profit for making them commercially available for around $20,000. Somebody had to put up lots of money to get USDA to sign off on them- which is why it's not likely any imports from China will be imported and sold for ten cents on the dollar any time soon.
Anyway, the gal that runs the Get Well Center was concerned with Rich's lung congestion and though he aught to have lymph therapy done before going into the hyperbaric chamber for fear he'd drown from his own overfilled lymph system.
It was a state of the art facility located in a new development with other medical type facilities in the development park. Her husband was a medical doctor and built the facility prior to passing away a year ago. There are two other medical doctors on the staff and so it's not located in the slums in the basement of a palm reader or witch doctor and staffed with morons.
Anyway, I had four hours to investigate until I had to get back to pick up Pastor Sander's at Death Row in Mansfield Prison (where he generally ministers to prisoners on Fridays) and so was piled up with books and literature and given free reign of the facility by Mrs. Chung. Of particular interest was one of the methods they use for lymph therapy- using a light beam generator. The literature says it works up to four times faster than lymph massage, and is what she recommended for Rich prior to going into the HBOT chamber.
Some of the literature explained that as dead cells break up, much of the debris become hydrophillic and therefore grabs on to water molecules to the point that lymph nodes get plugged up and won't let the lymph drain properly into the circulatory system.
So the light beam generator (it's end is about the size of a hockey puck, with a hose connected to an oxygen bottle) activates these hydrated debris particles and breaks them up, thereby unplugging the lymph node. In addition, the oxygen flows through the special glass surface of the hockey puck and therefore gets into the skin at the same time.
I didn't get a chance to see anyone actually being treated with it (there were perhaps a dozen patients there at the time but they were all being treated with other therapies) but it is totally noninvasive, painless, and the literature says it's as harmless as moon light. I was wondering if you were familiar with it and, if so, what you might be able to add to amplify it's method of action.
In addition to being used for such things as chest congestion from colds, congestive heart disease, etc., or to get athletes ready for such things as the 2003 Tour De France, the literature gave one dramatic example of a lady with elephantiasis- generally recognized as a nonrecoverable illness (as is congestive heart disease- at least Rich's doctor has done nothing for it other than prescribing pills and asking him how may pillows he sleeps on to keep his head elevated). In conjunction with other "responsible medicine", treatment with the light beam generator reduced the size of her legs to almost normal (from the before and after pictures it appears that the size of the legs went down to one third their former size). She evidently was given eleven two hour treatments over a period of one year and lost a total of 80 pounds, 41 pounds lost the first three months. 80 pounds works out to almost 10 gallons of water (8.3 pounds per gallon is what water weighs) that she was carrying around due to the lymph system being plugged up.
Anyway, sure would appreciate any light you have to shed on the subject.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
No, I have no additional light, however what you've written makes sense to me.
Such a device might also be helpful for those with cellulitis (inflamation caused when leg circulation is poor) IF it does no damage to blood vessels.
Does Rich's doctor have him on supplemental oxygen (the kind you breathe)? If not, I suggest he change doctors.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
year2027
God first
Beloved David Anderson
I loved your post but have not read all the replies yet but look forward to reading them soon
I love to look for truth in everywhere I can find it and understanding the man and his horse in the way God meant it helps
I believe the word of God is written in many things from the right way to love a horse into winning a race to the right way into being more healthly
I have been drinking more and more water and less and less dirty waters like cokes and etc
Oxygen is a big thing I see whether it be in the water or how we breath the air
I just seem to look for truth everywhere and its a trip I enjoy taking
with love and an holy kiss Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Okay sirguessalot~~~ go check out a good How To SCUBA diving book, read it and go for it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.