First David, Fluff didn't chase me off! I decided to leave because of my personal boycott of all things French. :D--> And if that wonder water returned Fluff to the warrior pup he was years ago, let's just say that is not the reason I refuse to return to Ohio........
Now that Fluff has an unfair advantage over an aging bear, in all fairness; I must insist in finding out where a bear can purchase some of said water for himself.
I think many mistake alternative medicine with the hooky pooky arts because they don't work for them or know people that they didn't work for. But even here Kit had stepped forward and testified as to the results she has received. Now humans and their bodies vary greatly. What is the wonder heal all for one is a disappointment for another. I have seen this with various mineral drinks. Seen some people that were just about crippled start drinking some stuff and received great benefits while the next person receives no benefits.
But if we always reject personal testimonies of quality people (not paid advertisers) we will never know what works for us and what doesn't. So, I am interested in where this product might be purchased..........
As to the textbook vs the real thing in biology...If you were looking at diagrams, well - that's somebody's idea of what things look like. If you meant real photos, please recall...every individual is unique and on the inside organisms vary too. Also, those photos are done of specifically sacrificed organisms which are either "freshly killed" or preserved in an expensive superior way. For beginning biology students, you're not gonna get the good stuff becaue you have no skills in dissection, so please don't be offended by that remark.
By the time you got your specimed, who knows how long it had been in that formaldehyde??? That stuff shrinks tissue and bleaches it...also makes it tougher than life...so forgive your lab aid! (I'm being facetious here)
As for the massage....I have always made it a point to be well hydrated, so I've always consumed an appropriate amount of water. The practitioner advised me after the treatment to add at least 2 glasses to my normal regimen after I went home until my urine returned to it's normal color. It took 2 days....then I resumedmy normal pattern. Sorry I didn't make that clearer.
For everybody reading....don't believe that your kidneys do all the work in removing toxins. There are internal and external cleansers. Externally the skin and the lungs, internally the liver and idneys.
The liver and kidneys work together very much like the old volleyball rules....set up and pass. The liver does the majority of the work in the setup phase reducing toxins or manipulating them in some way to render them as nearly harmless as possible and sends them, via the bloodstream to the kidneys where the kidneys pass them out.
Rejoice, rebounding is good....but almost any kind of vigorous exercise, especially involving the legs mucles will do a good job too.
Excathedra, Disanti is Coke's water product and Aquafina is Pepsi's. Both measure about 15 ppm on my homemade dissolved oxygen meter (so I could be off a few ppm one way or another). Tap water is generally about 8 ppm, so yes, they add oxygen to their water. They don't tell you they do, they just tell you it is not carbonated and leave you to guess what the pssst is when you open the bottle if it is not CO2. My guess is that they use air rather than pure oxygen since one can get 15 ppm water naturally by going to Niagara Falls in the dead of winter, when the water temperature is close to freezing, and drink or bottle it.
As the temperature of water rises, it's ability to hold gasses decreases. If you boil water in a pan on the stove you notice that little bubbles form on the bottom of the pan maybe ten degrees before boiling. Those bubbles are any and all gasses that are in the water, which must come off before the water boils. Boiling happens when the vapor pressure of water equals atmospheric pressure- at sea level this is 760 mm Hg, or one atmosphere absolute, or 14.7 psi- same reality, different units of measure.
Since the atmosphere, at least since the Flood, is roughly 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen, river water boiled will have bubbles coming off that are roughly in the ratio of one part oxygen to four parts nitrogen (with the trace gasses like argon and the like being thrown in with nitrogen.)
The primary law that governs the behavior of gasses is affectionately known as the puvnert equation: PV=NRT, where P is pressure, V is volume, N is the number of moles (mass of the gass), R is the ideal gas constant, and T is temperature. So if P is atmospheric pressure and stays constant, and the amount of gas stays constant, then an increase in T will necessitate an increase V, or volume.
So lets say that a glass sitting on the table has a pound of water in it and is at 32 degrees and has been allowed to absorb all the oxygen and nitrogen in the air above it that it can hold. As the temperature of the water rises to room temperature the gasses dissolved in the water all start screaming that they need more room because puvnert demands it. (dirty rotten puvnert!) So the gasses closest to the surface get kicked out to wander around the room while the rest can now have a little elbow room in the glass of water.
Carbonated soda pop works exactly this way. Open it when it is close to freezing and it has a maximum amount of CO2 in it. Let it sit in an open bottle and it goes flat as the temperature goes up to room temperature. This doesn't happen instantaneously, but if you leave a two liter bottle open for an hour or so, it doesn't have near the amount of CO2 in it as it did when first opened. Most of it has escaped to the atmosphere.
Oxygen works the same way except it doesn't have a bite to it like CO2 does. I think the "bite" happens because every cell the soda pop comes in contact with says, "Yuck, I'm trying to get rid of carbon dioxide and here you're giving me more of it!" In my opinion the best tasting water in the world is distilled water (to insure there are no gases whatsoever in the water to begin with) that is then cooled and saturated with oxygen at 32 degrees F. Every cell this water comes in contact with loves it and so doesn't make a fuss at all. Your mouth just feels very clean. And if you hold it in your mouth and let it bathe your teeth and gums for a while you'll probably forget to brush your teeth. Oh Sudo will hate that one!
When I first started making oxygenated water i didn't have a d.o. meter and so pressurized distilled water with oxygen from my welding torches to a pressure of 80 psi. I knew it was saturated when I tapped it into a two liter coke bottle and it looked like milk as a big fight between oxygen molecules broke out to determine who got to stay in the bottle and who got kicked out. It's neat to watch as it only takes a matter of seconds as the water clears from the bottom up until it is all crystal clear. At that point you may be sure that the oxygen concentration is 75 ppm if the water temperature is 32 F. If the bottle of water is allowed to rise to 50 F with the cap not tightly screwed on, the oxygen concentration goes down to about 40 ppm since puvnert rules!
But if the cap is tightly closed, the oxygen concentration will stay at 75 ppm even if the water temperature rises. But the contents will now be under pressure and so you get the characteristic psst when the cap is opened. In the case of Coke and Pepsi, you're likely to have it all over you if you open the cap too fast and the carbonated liquid is too warm!
The interesting thing about oxygenated water is how long it keeps in a horses water bucket. It takes days rather than minutes or hours to get depleted. One would expect that with four out of five molecules above the water being nitrogen that in short order the oxygen would drop to one fifth of it's starting concentration. But this doesn't happen and I rather suspect that it has to do with a first in, last out, kind of thing- sort of like a small group of soldiers at the gate of a fort holding off a hoard of enemy trying to get in the gate.
Well, I've strayed quite far from your original question but while I'm on the subject there is another law that applies to gasses in liquids. It's called Henry's Law. And Henry's law states that the partial pressure of a particular gas in solution is proportional to it's concentration such that the sum of all the partial pressures will equal the pressure over the liquid.
In the case of atmospheric air over water, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the water will be .79 atmospheres and the partial pressure of oxygen will be .21 atmospheres. If the atmospheric air is replaced with 100% oxygen, in time all the nitrogen will come out and the water will contain five times as much oxygen as it had before. This is the principal involved with oxygen masks and those little tubes they stick up people's noses connected to an oxygen bottle. The net result is that the lungs get five times as much oxygen per breath.
In fact, in hyperbaric chambers they've found that they can keep people alive that have no hemoglobin function if they can get the plasma oxygen concentration up to 30 ppm. That only takes two atmospheres of pressure in a pressure chamber instead of one- as long as the atmosphere is pure oxygen instead of air.
I bought a few bottles at a health food store. It wa the best bottled water I've ever drunk. For some reason it is better than the distiled water I make at home and I can't figure out why. I don't care for now, though.
I decided to put the bottles in the refrigerator to maximise the oxygen in them when opened....and when I opened the first and second there was no fizz! I assume that's because the bottes were cold.
I noticed a peculiar phenomenon....my mouth sorta tingled when I drank it, particularly noticeable on the sides of my tongye and the mucose under it. Howcome?
BTW - how long would one have to consume this water exclusively before one could expect any noticeable change in oneself?
Heerz something to possibly augment the idea: The fact that most people use such a very small portion of the total breathing capabilities of the human body. And not only in volume of breath, or depth of breath, but also in diverse ways of breathing, and therefore, diverse ways of oxygenating both body and mind. And also, using some of these ways of breathing to more fully process and regulate energies (such as oxygen saturated water) and thoughts (such as prayer) and activities (like sex... :P-->).
imo, the breath is most likely the most diverse and powerful biological tools we have, and tragically underestimated and underappreciated. And considering also how it works with the water and nutrients moving through our body...
Anyway, for what its worth,
be careful, have fun, good luck, all that stuff,
Todd
We're gonna meet him in the clouds, he said...:P-->:D-->
quote:Or maybe the treatment disabled you and you live off the malpractice settlement. Clarification requested.
Perhaps I misunderstood this question before. I am disabled because of krappy genes AND a horrendous auto accident which should have killed me.(Iunderstand Newtonian physics almost as well as I do biology)
I owe the balance of my life to aggressive treatment by the medical profession + whatever I find that augments it in general....and my mobility to the expertise of excellent nursing care and the dedication of physical therapists who still work with me...as well as my own guts and determination to fight off the depression and pain.
In addition, I investigate and use, at least temporarily, any alternative to "medicine" that logically may have a positive impact. That includes many things folks call weird. Some of them have been of benefit - imagine that!
-----------------------------------------
Now, please let me cut to the chase!
Since you only recently acquired a password to post, and you obviously have a great deal to offer a group such as this, but only recently want to get involved in discussions here, that leads me to think you came here to sell your systems for oxygenating and distilling water.
How much space does such a system need and how much do they cost?
Hello Grizz. Sorry I didn't get around to answering your post last night but got tired and so went to bed. But I'm up now, have had my first glass of water while waiting for the coffee to brew and am happily escounced at my computer and firing on all cylinders.
It used to be that I'd sit on the edge of the bed wondering if I dared stand up on my sixty one year old legs, finally take the great risk, stumble to the coffee pot, make the coffee, stubble to my office, turn on the computer, read for a while, finally remember to pour a cup of coffee, stumble back out to the coffee pot, only to find that there was no coffee as i'd either forgotten to add the coffee grounds, put the water in, or turn the coffee pot on. Ah, it's hell getting old!
I seldom have those problems any more, nor those creeping joint aches or grogginess that used to make me wonder if my legs would actually hold weight when I got out of bed.
But your're right, different strokes for different folks. What works for one doesn't seem to work for another. I rather think the main reason is not that the remedy doesn't work but rather that we are an impatient, selfish, and greedy lot here on planet earth- especially in America- and we figure that every problem we have should be immediately solved, in spite of the fact that many of our problems took sixty one years of neglect to show up at our doorstep. The Dandi Randi's (or whatever his name is) of the world take advantage of that fact with their cheap shots across the bow to talk people out of trying anything.
The problem with water is the cost of shipping and handling. It is second only to boiling water as the highest cost to industry world wide. Most food stuffs are mostly water and coke and pepsi learned early on that they'd better put a bottling plant in every major market they have or all the profits would go to the truckers, rail lines or Fedex.
When I started making the water I distilled my own water, oxygenated it and put it in two liter bottles and gave it away, with the stipulation that I'd give the folks more but they had to return the bottles. Amazing how inconsiderate folks are. I hardly ever got the bottles back and so became chief cook and bottle washer, scrounging around for used coke and pepsi bottles- sort of like Paw must feel, serving all that fine food and never getting a tip! Since I was already in the poor house the folks couldn't drive me there, but they did cause a whole lot of work that it finally dawned on me I didn't like to do.
So I figured out how to solve the problem. Buy the distilled water for a dollar a gallon, put oxygen in it, put it back in the same distilled water bottle and sell it for $5 a gallon. Ah, that lessened my work load considerably! Almost dropped it to zero, as a matter of fact. Surprising how many folks will compliment you on a great product when it's free and then call you a no good capitalist pig if you dare put a price on such a good product. All of a sudden it's a rotten product and totally worthless.
So the next best thing I could do was tell the folks how to make the water themselves- the old "give a man a pair of shoes and he'll need shoes again, teach him how to make a pair of shoes and he'll always have shoes" routine.
So, if you're anywhere near NE Ohio and can get here I'll be happy to give you a couple of gallons of the water to get you started, or if not you can probably find Penta Water somewhere. They're a California company and Safeway out in Claifornia carries it I hear. Around here one has to go to an upscale grocery store to find it and pay $1.83 of a 500 ml bottle (which works out to about $16 a gallon).
The alternatve is to make it yourself- and I've found over the past forty years that folks that passed through The Way are generally pretty resourceful and innovative people (you must admit that no run of the mill person would sit through 36 hours of lecture in a two week period). Anyway, I think it took Fred, Kit's husband, two days to get set up and make the water. He's an ex-Navy guy and tells me that they used to give oxygen to help drunken sailors get over it- a not unworthy reason to drink highly oxygenated water!
What you'll need is some kind of stainless steel pressure tank to put the water in for starters. The best I've come up with so far is the Corny Kegs that coke, pepsi and the other soft drink companies used to use. They hold five gallons- the perfect size for a horses water bucket! Corny Kegs are a glut on the market anymore, at least they were til recently, since the only folks that used them were the home brew folks that made beer in their garage.
If you can't find one in someones barn or a restaurant store room that is happy to get rid of it, you can buy them all cleaned and remanufactured from Sabco.com in Toledo, Ohio. As of six months or so ago they listed them for $40. With the price of nickel going through the roof that may be double now, but if you had to have a fabricator make one to order you're probably looking at a thosand dollar price tag. They're rated at 130 psi pressure- originally made by the Cornelius Company, but they don't make them any more. I think coke and pepsi use to pay $80-$100 for them when they bought them by the thousands. They are an engineers dream, a perfect solution for ten cents on the dollar!
Then you'll need an oxygen bottle and a regulator to go on it and some hose and fittings to get the oxygen into the Corny Keg. I use 60 psi pressure and leave it over night or until I need it, but that's only because I'm not all that concerned about wasted oxygen. It's certainly not a pollutant in the air!!!
For all I know 10 psi will work as well- but how long it takes to saturate the water I don't know. I use a two hundred cu. ft.(?) bottle of oxygen, which you may have in your garage if you have cutting torches. If not, it's better to lease them than to buy them if you move around a lot because there are as many unscrupulous welding supply places around as in any other small business, that will tell you the bottle you have is worthless and make you buy a new one rather than refilling the one you have. They usually get $100 deposit on the bottle instead of $100 to buy the bottle, but then when you go in for more they'll merely exchange bottles rather than having to refill yours. The oxygen costs about $20 and will last probably a year if you only make water for yourself and your familly.
But I learned while setting up Gene and Donna Randall with a system that you can buy these little 20 cu.ft. (?) bottles (at least you can at the welding supply place in Dayton) that cost $60, including the oxygen in it. They're much easier to carry than to lug the normal size bottle around. But refilling them also costs $20 or thereabouts so you end up paying more for the oxygen. Donna tells me they've made three batches and still have maybe half the oxygen left in their little tank. The guy at the welding supply place said he'd apply the full price of the small bottle to a larger one if she wanted the next time she came in. He was quite interested in the matter of oxygenating water and so I suggested to Donna that she take him a gallon and he'd probably upsize the bottle for nothing.
Then there's the oxygen regulator. They normally cost $80-$100 at the welding supply place. Although I've never bought any on ebay they are available there used for less than that. And if you have cutting torches you already have one.
A word of caution regarding oxygen bottles. They contain oxygen at a pressure of 2500 to 3000 psi and so are not for kids to play with. It is illegal to transport them without the screw on cap in place since if an accident were to occur and the valve on top knocked off, the tank becomes a rocket.
But then we pull into the gas station to get gas every day and so take our lives into our own hands and do so at our own risk because gasoline is a very flamible liquid and it's quite amazing to me that in all my years I've never heard of a gas station blowing up from some careless consumer lighting a match and blowing everyone up.
Fact is that we all need gas for our cars and so we take the risk, and rely on the proprieter of the gas station, the oil companies, the car companies and the government to keep the risk to a minimum. Now if only someone would come up with a way to take the nitrogen out of the air before it goes in the carburator, why our gas milage would go up dramatically, not having to heat up all that useless nitrogen and spitting out NOx gasses through the exhaust pipe.
Fact is that a car will no more run without oxygen than it will run without fuel. (just like the human body) We take the oxygen for granted because it's "free", but we pay a price anyway because we have to take four molecules of nitrogen along with one molecule of oxygen and heat them all up before combustion takes place and the oxygen is used.
I guess I also should say a word about medical grade oxygen and welding grade oxygen. It's all the same oxygen, obtained by taking air down to somewhere around minus 200 F, liquifying it, and then raising the temperature slowly to boil off one of them and further up the temperature scale boiling off the other. But they add back in 5% water for medical grade oxygen since evidently the tissue in the lungs is damaged if oxygen without moisture is breathed for 24 hours straight. But to get medical grade oxygen requires a doctors perscription, and costs much more than welding grade. Those who worship medical doctors might think that this is holy oxygen rather than the lowly stuff welders use to cut steel, but it's the same thing. Obviously welders don't want water in their oxygen and wouldn't buy medical grade even if they could get it. The other grade of oxygen is aviation grade and it is treated to get every last molecule of water out of it so valves don't stick at 50,000 feet while flying you across country and everyone in the plane die because of a sticking valve and no oxygen.
Man, that first glass of water and two cups of coffee really got me revved up this morning! So I'd better think about stopping. But before I do a few other things.
The nice thing about Korny Kegs is that they have a dip tube that runs to the bottom of the keg so when the oxygen is introduced it bubbles up from the bottom through the water rather than merely pressurizing it from the top. This helps the rate of oxygenation. And it has a safety relief valve that one can pull open to sparge off any other gasses that may be in the water if one doesn't use distilled water.
I think that does it, but if you have any specific questions email me at anders@en.com. I'd give my phone number but i don't return long distance calls because I'm more concerned where the next meal is coming from and how to pay the next gas, electric, auto insurance, and internet provider bill than I am in paying long distance telephone companies for the privilege of talking to somebody. And I seldom answer the phone anyway but rather let my answering machine do it because of the million solicitation calls that come every day anymore.
anyway Grizz, glad to hear that Fluff didn't tear your leg off. He sounds like he's going to do that to me every time I go up to the house. But as soon as Pastor Ernie opens the door he lies down, rolls over, and demands a belly rub from me in exchange for letting me in. Now that I think about it, I'm probably giving him a lymph therapy massage without even knowing it! Hmmm, maybe it wasn't only oxygenated water that helped his limp.
Since you only recently acquired a password to post, and you obviously have a great deal to offer a group such as this, but only recently want to get involved in discussions here, that leads me to think you came here to sell your systems for oxygenating and distilling water.
How much space does such a system need and how much do they cost?
I apologize again for my agression and snyde remaarks....we were obviously posting at the same time and I had no way to know you were not fishing for sales.
My big mouth is noW officially shut whith a large amount of chagrin for glue!
Hello Krys. Sorry to have taken so long to respond, but since my last post I was informed that my mother had passed away. She was a month away from her 96th birthday and died alone in a nursing home in God-forsaken West Virginia.
The powers that be are allowing her to finally come home and tomorrow she'll be laid to rest alongside dad with a tombstone already in place that reads, "Because Christ has Risen, we also will Rise", which she and I had placed there in 1990 when dad died and I returned to equally God-forsaken Cleveland.
My rotten siblings can do her no more damage now. But rest assured that someone paid close to a million dollars for her forced incarceration out of state for the last 11 years and it wasn't them. Democrats and Republicans are quick to point their finger at each other as the cause of all the financial problems this nation faces. But they won't admit that the government is rotten because so many people in this country are rotten and the folks in Washington only represent them. But I guess they never heard the Proverb about "better to hear the rebuke of the wise than the song of fools." That would hardly get them any votes in elections that are little more than popularity contests anymore. It's the politics of death and although mother was not always a little angel, she didn't deserve what she got for the last eleven years of her life. She did not have Alzheimers, dementia, senility, or whatever other excuse uncaring children generally give to have the state pay their mother's bills while they try to grab her house and everything else they can. I sympathize with those who truly need nursing home care, but mother was not one of them.
Anyway Krys, I'm sorry to have called your post in question but after first reading it I immediately called a friend, who has congestive heart failure, and suggested he find a massage therapist to see if a lymph massage might get rid of the water around his lungs that the doctors are concerned about. But when I reread your post it occurred to me that you might have been pulling my leg, in which case I might have actually done my friend damage instead of helping him.
It wouldn't have happened on a site that required real names for people to post. But here I can't assume people are telling the truth if they won't even give their real name. And hurt feelings or anger, etc. is hard to get serious about when I might be talking to Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse.
Fact is that Kit Sober wanted me to post the info about oxygenated water here six months ago but I couldn't get past the Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck routine that so often happens with annonomous posters. I never met a soul in my tenure with twi back in the sixties and early seventies that refused to give me their name.
I finally got over that when I realized how many jerks I've met over the years that did give me their name and figured I could do no worse than that. But it seems I have done worse than that by relying on your information and then questioning it.
If you care to send me an email with your real name I'll be happy to apologize personally.
"Hello Krys. Sorry to have taken so long to respond, but since my last post I was informed that my mother had passed away. She was a month away from her 96th birthday and died alone in a nursing home in God-forsaken West Virginia."
We are sorry to hear of your mother's passing.
". . . a tombstone already in place that reads, "Because Christ has Risen, we also will Rise""
That is a very nice quote to put onto a tombstone.
"It wouldn't have happened on a site that required real names for people to post. But here I can't assume people are telling the truth if they won't even give their real name. And hurt feelings or anger, etc. is hard to get serious about when I might be talking to Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse."
Even here you will see that many of us do in fact use our real names when we post.
". . . I couldn't get past the Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck routine that so often happens with annonomous posters. I never met a soul in my tenure with twi back in the sixties and early seventies that refused to give me their name."
I understand and I also find it frustrating at times.
"But it seems I have done worse than that by relying on your information and then questioning it."
No, you did what you thought best at the time.
No matter what I hear, and what 'sounds' interesting; I must do research if I am going to act on such a hint. I am certainly glad when someone suggests to me something that they feel is good. But are they a 'doctor'? Are they 'qualified' to make a proper assessment of my health and conditions? I must take the end responsibility for what I do.
I learn a great deal here as well as on other boards. Ever since I first began visiting BBS's in the mid 1980's, I feel that many have had things to offer, for our growth and learning. But it all must be taken with a dose of salt also. Can colon cleansing help some people? Sometimes? Possibly. Is it the end of that will help everyone? Probably not. But I can still learn from reading the posts of those on that band-wagon. [filtering through the flames, and jokes, and distractors].
Again our thoughts and prayers are with you in this time of sorrow.
I don't know which I would grieve for more...your mother's death, or the siblings casting lots for her posesions while she "rots" away in an unnecessary nursing home.
I've been there, with a sibling. We are now permanently estranged because of it. When my parents started failing in their health, they were 1200 miles away in FL and I went down summers and various long weekends to help. My brother called them once in a while to tell them what to sell and to insist they give him charge over their estate so he could "help".
There is a thread around here somewhere where I've discussed "Burrying my Brother" because I took a stand, and when Mom offerred to put my name on their accounts instead of his, all hell broke loose. Since I came to help, and my sibbling called to advise them...I guess she figured I was the lesser of 2 evils.
There's more to the story....but the end result is the same...except that after Mom died, I spent my father's money on him...my DH took a second mortgage on a house that was almost paid off and we built a second story onto our ranch house. We moved outselves and our children upstairs, and Dad moved into the bedrooms downstairs with one reserved for his "assistant" and he and she became an integral part of our family's life for a bit over 2 years while we lived together until he died. He did suffer from dimentia.
I am sincerely offering condolences for both of your losses.
Sometimes, it's not names on boards such as this. Anyone can sign up with any name one wants...be it real or otherwise. I generally determine a poster's integrity by their overall reputation in what they say and where they say it (which forum).
Lately, my time on the computer is very short due to a pesky exhaust fan problem (see the Computer forums for info) so it will be a while before I get to post again, I think.
Again I apologize for mis-reading you, I do very much like the Penta Water and appreciate the tip. I don't know if I will want to set up a system or not....to be determined.
For very intimate private reasons, it is not likely that I will give you my real name any time soon. I mean no offense, but there are reasons for it. You have a Private Topic waiting for you where we can talk about this some more if you'd like.
Hello again Krys. I got your private message in my email box. Thanks. I'd like to ask for your help in a matter that came up a year ago regarding oxygenated water. But first I have to tell the story of how it arose.
My 79 year old cousin, best friend, and god-father, had lymphatic leukemia for at least five years prior to the event that caused me to put oxygenated water on the front burner of my life. About a year and a half ago we were down at the Cleveland Clinic waiting for his name to be called when he went over to get a drink of water and couldn't make it back to his seat in the lobby area. He just grabbed onto the reception desk and collapsed to the floor.
Since his wife, Doris, doesn't drive, I'd been taking him for chemotherapy for the previous six months and the visits were happening with increasing regularity. This incident told me he'd run out of oxygen and I knew it was now getting serious indeed.
So when I got back to the shop I started figuring out how I was going to make some oxygenated water to get to him. I didn't have any stainless pressure tanks at the time and so used a carbon steel one I had that would make 5 gallons at a time. Seems ironic that my first job as an engineer back in the sixties was designing boiler plants, which involved, in part, taking out every last molecule of oxygen I could from the feed water because oxygen is death on iron and boiler tubes will rust through in a hurry without feed water treatment. And now, 40 years later, I was trying to figure out how to get the maximum amount of oxygen into water to help a man with a very serious and immediate problem.
So I oxygenated some water, tapped off the first gallon to get rid of the iron, drank some to make sure I wouldn't die, and then took some over to Russ.
The next morning I was driving across town and stopped at a gas station to use their restroom. I noticed that my urine was colorless- probably the first time since Grace Bliss's class back in the sixties. when I got home I called Russ and asked him if he'd noticed anything after drinking the water.
He reported that his urine was colorless and added that it had been a dark brown for a long time due to all the medications he was taking. I reported that the same thing had happened to me and we concluded that the oxygenated water was doing something (but I had not yet come across howstuffworks.com and so had no idea of the mechanism that might be involved.)
As the days progressed he noticed that the severe lower back pain he experienced, particularly after taking one of his many pills in the morning, left within five minutes if he drank a glass of the water. This was in June of 2003.
I recommended that he tell his doctor he was drinking the water the next time we went for chemo, in the event he might have reason to tell him not to drink it. He didn't, just yawned as if that was the most boring piece of information he'd ever had to suffer through.
But he didn't tell Russ not to drink it and so he continued. Russ continued to drink the water and seemed to think it helped him- at lest he had no more lower back pain after taking the pill in the morning. And, he didn't faint anymore during any of our continuing, and increasing, trips to the Clinic.
Evidently lymphatic leukemia causes the spleen to sequester hemoglobin and not let it go and so more and more transfusions went along with the chemo treatments as June went to July and July to August.
Finally the doctor said that although he was very reluctant to recommend it, he and the other staff doctors had reviewed his case and found no alternativea to removing his spleen. It evidently is a high risk surgery and many people in his condition don't make it off the operating table except in a plastic bag.
Russ came through the surgery in fine order, but the surgeon said it was by far the largest spleen he had ever removed. It was the size of a small football and weighed six pounds. the normal spleen weighs 8 ounces I am told.
Anyway, by September/October I was beginning to learn about hyperbarics and so found the name of the world expert in the field, Dr. Philip James. He is the head of the Wolfson Hyperbaric Medical Unit at the University of
Dundee in Stonewall England, heads the UN taskforce on Obesity, consults with the oil companies and their divers in the North Sea oil fields, and his predicessor, Dr. Haldane, is known world wide as the Father of Oxygen Therapy. (he developed the first diving tables for the Royal Navy about the time Bullinger was publishing his Companion Bible- see also "The Haldane Effect" on metabolism.)
Anyway, I sent an email to Dr. James, in the improbable event that he'd reply, explaining what had happened to Russ and I after drinking oxygenated water. I was primarily interested in finding out if there was any downside to drinking oxygenated water.
To my delightful surprise, he did reply and assured me that there was no downside to the limited amount of oxygen that water could hold. He also said he found it "remarkable" that our urine turned colorless after drinking the water.
And so, here is the question you can perhaps help me with. What did he mean by "remarkable"?
Since he's a medical doctor I'm sure he meant more than "far out" or "groovy man". But it wasn't until months later that I got the chance to send him another email and ask him. He didn't reply to that email.
About all I know about the subject to date is that the yellow in urine is caused by the chromium ion (but forget now if it is chrome +3 or chrome +6). Anyway, one of the states is yellow the other is not and so I rather expect that drinking highly oxygenated water moves the pH from the acid side to the basic side of the pH scale.
I did my first go-through of the Haldane Effect, the Bohr Effect, Hemoglobin loading curves, CO2 and bicarbonate balances a few months ago but need to go through that kind of stuff three or four times before begining to get a picture of what is going on.
I'm sure glad you mentioned that you know Newtonian Physics about as well as biology since Physics isn't known to be a very popular subject among most folks generally- even medical doctors! And physics + biology is a rare find indeed!
Actually, molecules colliding with each other aren't all that different than cars colliding with people- except on a much smaller scale. And I know about cars colliding with people as well as you do because I should have been dead from a car accident in the winter of '65-'66. (Much to the chagrin of lots of folks I'm not dead.) And one that happened three years ago while I was on a bicycle crossing an intersection with the "walk" signal out in Fremount, Ca left me with so many broken bones in my left wrist that it took nine pins and eight hours of surgery to hold them all together again, not to mention a torsion fracture to my left leg. Not only was I one handed for a good while, I was one sided! Sure wish I would have known about hyperbaric therapy then as I would have found one to hop into on a regular basis in a hurry.
So here's hoping you recover completely from your bouts of rectal-octal-itis (which I also know about first hand. That's the disease caused by the nerve endings of the eyes and nerve endings of the rectum getting crossed so as to give one a crappy outlook on life. Happens to me all the time!)
-- sigh - - finally, I have discovered a name for the condition! :)-->
quote: Actually, molecules colliding with each other aren't all that different than cars colliding with people- except on a much smaller scale.
Sorry, Dave - not quite true except in rare instances. What happens when molecules collide is Chemistry or Quantum Chemistry or some other such thing. Those are subjects I know very little or nothing about, except they exist.
I hope your cousin is doing well now?
Lower back pain is offen associated with kidney problems, either infection, a stone or tumor (or something else)
I'm curious how you knew your cousin's oxygen levels were low. Were his nailbed and lips blue or purple? He might have gotten even more benefit from oxygen had his doctors put him on supplemtal oxygen to breathe as well as your oxygenated water!
I'm not a physician, so I can only suggest why the urine changed color.
When a person is taking chemotherapy, cells die. Good ones and bad ones. The body is very very stingy, it does not give up easily any part of something which is still worthwhile. It rather takes the cell fragments and/or molecules apart to use again.(something like taking down a large lego structure to use the blocks again in some other structure).
As this happens what is truly waste is cast out into the lymph where it is pused around until the large lymph vessels dump their contents into the vena cava just before entering the heart. So it gets mixed back in with the blood. Once this gunk reaches the liver and kidneys, they set up and pass the junk out.
Dark urine shows that lots of junk is being cast out....light or pale urine shows little junk needs to be passed out.
Not having a Doctorate in Physiology, I can only suspect that the extra oxygen introduced into the digestive system was directed to the liver.The additional oxygen PLUS the additional water allowed the liver to operate more efficiently...and likewise the kidneys. Eventually when the bulk of the "nastys" were eliminated, the urine returned to it's more normal state. Sorry, I cannot give you a more complete answer.
As far as your friend which CHF - let me tell you that in all my trips to various therapy sessions after the accident I passed by a room with a man in a bouncing chair. He looked like he was riding a bronco...but he was strapped in very well...and his legs and arms had inflating and deflating pillows alternately squeezing around him. It was very noisy.
I asked the attendant who was walking me to my treatment area what that was and was told it was a treatment method to remove extra water from a man with CHF! Therefore, I don't think massage therapy would have any negative effect on your friend. The very least....it would relax him and provide him a period well being.
I enjoy talking with you, but these conversations may be boring to the general GS population, so if they start getting antsy, we should continue in the private topic section. They may not object, since many enjoy learning these kinds of things, it is just for future reference.
Zixar probably knows more chemistry than I do, so perhaps if you need to know some of that, he's probably your man. I understand it to a degree, but to a small one.
krys - - who apologizes in advance for typos, but cannot take time to go looking and checking because she's still dealing with a pesky fan.
Drs usually use that term when they see results which are outside of normal expectations.
In a diagnosis, one might read "the size of each atria is unremarkable"....when I had a cardiac echocardiagram to check that my heart was not physically damaged in the accident....that was written in the report. It just meant that every thing in that part of the exam was normal. Doctors generally make a "remark" when something is abnormal. So this man probably meant that your friends results were extraordinarily good.
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Or maybe the treatment disabled you and you live off the malpractice settlement
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excathedra
david, do you know if the grocery store aquafina water has a lot of oxygen ?
--
i am laughing my head off about the rooster deciding to take on fluff now that the ladies were around !!!!!!!!!!
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Grizzy
First David, Fluff didn't chase me off! I decided to leave because of my personal boycott of all things French.
:D--> And if that wonder water returned Fluff to the warrior pup he was years ago, let's just say that is not the reason I refuse to return to Ohio........ 
Now that Fluff has an unfair advantage over an aging bear, in all fairness; I must insist in finding out where a bear can purchase some of said water for himself.
I think many mistake alternative medicine with the hooky pooky arts because they don't work for them or know people that they didn't work for. But even here Kit had stepped forward and testified as to the results she has received. Now humans and their bodies vary greatly. What is the wonder heal all for one is a disappointment for another. I have seen this with various mineral drinks. Seen some people that were just about crippled start drinking some stuff and received great benefits while the next person receives no benefits.
But if we always reject personal testimonies of quality people (not paid advertisers) we will never know what works for us and what doesn't. So, I am interested in where this product might be purchased..........
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Rejoice
For Humans:
Celtic Gray Salt: adds 80 minerals to the body and helps you to absorb the water you take in:
http://www.celtic-seasalt.com/celticsalt.html
Lymph movement:
Try a rebounder. See Al Carter's info about bouncing for health and moving the lymph through the body---used by Nasa for years:
Rebounding aids lymphatic circulation by stimulating the millions of one-way valves in the lymphatic system.
http://www.reboundair.com/33ways.htm
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krys
David:
You may call me krys, many folks here do.
As to the textbook vs the real thing in biology...If you were looking at diagrams, well - that's somebody's idea of what things look like. If you meant real photos, please recall...every individual is unique and on the inside organisms vary too. Also, those photos are done of specifically sacrificed organisms which are either "freshly killed" or preserved in an expensive superior way. For beginning biology students, you're not gonna get the good stuff becaue you have no skills in dissection, so please don't be offended by that remark.
By the time you got your specimed, who knows how long it had been in that formaldehyde??? That stuff shrinks tissue and bleaches it...also makes it tougher than life...so forgive your lab aid! (I'm being facetious here)
As for the massage....I have always made it a point to be well hydrated, so I've always consumed an appropriate amount of water. The practitioner advised me after the treatment to add at least 2 glasses to my normal regimen after I went home until my urine returned to it's normal color. It took 2 days....then I resumedmy normal pattern. Sorry I didn't make that clearer.
For everybody reading....don't believe that your kidneys do all the work in removing toxins. There are internal and external cleansers. Externally the skin and the lungs, internally the liver and idneys.
The liver and kidneys work together very much like the old volleyball rules....set up and pass. The liver does the majority of the work in the setup phase reducing toxins or manipulating them in some way to render them as nearly harmless as possible and sends them, via the bloodstream to the kidneys where the kidneys pass them out.
Rejoice, rebounding is good....but almost any kind of vigorous exercise, especially involving the legs mucles will do a good job too.
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David Anderson
Excathedra, Disanti is Coke's water product and Aquafina is Pepsi's. Both measure about 15 ppm on my homemade dissolved oxygen meter (so I could be off a few ppm one way or another). Tap water is generally about 8 ppm, so yes, they add oxygen to their water. They don't tell you they do, they just tell you it is not carbonated and leave you to guess what the pssst is when you open the bottle if it is not CO2. My guess is that they use air rather than pure oxygen since one can get 15 ppm water naturally by going to Niagara Falls in the dead of winter, when the water temperature is close to freezing, and drink or bottle it.
As the temperature of water rises, it's ability to hold gasses decreases. If you boil water in a pan on the stove you notice that little bubbles form on the bottom of the pan maybe ten degrees before boiling. Those bubbles are any and all gasses that are in the water, which must come off before the water boils. Boiling happens when the vapor pressure of water equals atmospheric pressure- at sea level this is 760 mm Hg, or one atmosphere absolute, or 14.7 psi- same reality, different units of measure.
Since the atmosphere, at least since the Flood, is roughly 21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen, river water boiled will have bubbles coming off that are roughly in the ratio of one part oxygen to four parts nitrogen (with the trace gasses like argon and the like being thrown in with nitrogen.)
The primary law that governs the behavior of gasses is affectionately known as the puvnert equation: PV=NRT, where P is pressure, V is volume, N is the number of moles (mass of the gass), R is the ideal gas constant, and T is temperature. So if P is atmospheric pressure and stays constant, and the amount of gas stays constant, then an increase in T will necessitate an increase V, or volume.
So lets say that a glass sitting on the table has a pound of water in it and is at 32 degrees and has been allowed to absorb all the oxygen and nitrogen in the air above it that it can hold. As the temperature of the water rises to room temperature the gasses dissolved in the water all start screaming that they need more room because puvnert demands it. (dirty rotten puvnert!) So the gasses closest to the surface get kicked out to wander around the room while the rest can now have a little elbow room in the glass of water.
Carbonated soda pop works exactly this way. Open it when it is close to freezing and it has a maximum amount of CO2 in it. Let it sit in an open bottle and it goes flat as the temperature goes up to room temperature. This doesn't happen instantaneously, but if you leave a two liter bottle open for an hour or so, it doesn't have near the amount of CO2 in it as it did when first opened. Most of it has escaped to the atmosphere.
Oxygen works the same way except it doesn't have a bite to it like CO2 does. I think the "bite" happens because every cell the soda pop comes in contact with says, "Yuck, I'm trying to get rid of carbon dioxide and here you're giving me more of it!" In my opinion the best tasting water in the world is distilled water (to insure there are no gases whatsoever in the water to begin with) that is then cooled and saturated with oxygen at 32 degrees F. Every cell this water comes in contact with loves it and so doesn't make a fuss at all. Your mouth just feels very clean. And if you hold it in your mouth and let it bathe your teeth and gums for a while you'll probably forget to brush your teeth. Oh Sudo will hate that one!
When I first started making oxygenated water i didn't have a d.o. meter and so pressurized distilled water with oxygen from my welding torches to a pressure of 80 psi. I knew it was saturated when I tapped it into a two liter coke bottle and it looked like milk as a big fight between oxygen molecules broke out to determine who got to stay in the bottle and who got kicked out. It's neat to watch as it only takes a matter of seconds as the water clears from the bottom up until it is all crystal clear. At that point you may be sure that the oxygen concentration is 75 ppm if the water temperature is 32 F. If the bottle of water is allowed to rise to 50 F with the cap not tightly screwed on, the oxygen concentration goes down to about 40 ppm since puvnert rules!
But if the cap is tightly closed, the oxygen concentration will stay at 75 ppm even if the water temperature rises. But the contents will now be under pressure and so you get the characteristic psst when the cap is opened. In the case of Coke and Pepsi, you're likely to have it all over you if you open the cap too fast and the carbonated liquid is too warm!
The interesting thing about oxygenated water is how long it keeps in a horses water bucket. It takes days rather than minutes or hours to get depleted. One would expect that with four out of five molecules above the water being nitrogen that in short order the oxygen would drop to one fifth of it's starting concentration. But this doesn't happen and I rather suspect that it has to do with a first in, last out, kind of thing- sort of like a small group of soldiers at the gate of a fort holding off a hoard of enemy trying to get in the gate.
Well, I've strayed quite far from your original question but while I'm on the subject there is another law that applies to gasses in liquids. It's called Henry's Law. And Henry's law states that the partial pressure of a particular gas in solution is proportional to it's concentration such that the sum of all the partial pressures will equal the pressure over the liquid.
In the case of atmospheric air over water, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the water will be .79 atmospheres and the partial pressure of oxygen will be .21 atmospheres. If the atmospheric air is replaced with 100% oxygen, in time all the nitrogen will come out and the water will contain five times as much oxygen as it had before. This is the principal involved with oxygen masks and those little tubes they stick up people's noses connected to an oxygen bottle. The net result is that the lungs get five times as much oxygen per breath.
In fact, in hyperbaric chambers they've found that they can keep people alive that have no hemoglobin function if they can get the plasma oxygen concentration up to 30 ppm. That only takes two atmospheres of pressure in a pressure chamber instead of one- as long as the atmosphere is pure oxygen instead of air.
Hope this helps.
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krys
David:
I bought a few bottles at a health food store. It wa the best bottled water I've ever drunk. For some reason it is better than the distiled water I make at home and I can't figure out why. I don't care for now, though.
I decided to put the bottles in the refrigerator to maximise the oxygen in them when opened....and when I opened the first and second there was no fizz! I assume that's because the bottes were cold.
I noticed a peculiar phenomenon....my mouth sorta tingled when I drank it, particularly noticeable on the sides of my tongye and the mucose under it. Howcome?
BTW - how long would one have to consume this water exclusively before one could expect any noticeable change in oneself?
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sirguessalot
hi all.
wonderful product, David.
Heerz something to possibly augment the idea: The fact that most people use such a very small portion of the total breathing capabilities of the human body. And not only in volume of breath, or depth of breath, but also in diverse ways of breathing, and therefore, diverse ways of oxygenating both body and mind. And also, using some of these ways of breathing to more fully process and regulate energies (such as oxygen saturated water) and thoughts (such as prayer) and activities (like sex...
:P-->).
imo, the breath is most likely the most diverse and powerful biological tools we have, and tragically underestimated and underappreciated. And considering also how it works with the water and nutrients moving through our body...
Anyway, for what its worth,
be careful, have fun, good luck, all that stuff,
Todd
We're gonna meet him in the clouds, he said...
:P-->
:D-->
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excathedra
todd i love when you post here
david, thank you for your response and i notice you answered my question in the first post. that was nice that you didn't point that out to me
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krys
Perhaps I misunderstood this question before. I am disabled because of krappy genes AND a horrendous auto accident which should have killed me.(Iunderstand Newtonian physics almost as well as I do biology)
I owe the balance of my life to aggressive treatment by the medical profession + whatever I find that augments it in general....and my mobility to the expertise of excellent nursing care and the dedication of physical therapists who still work with me...as well as my own guts and determination to fight off the depression and pain.
In addition, I investigate and use, at least temporarily, any alternative to "medicine" that logically may have a positive impact. That includes many things folks call weird. Some of them have been of benefit - imagine that!
-----------------------------------------
Now, please let me cut to the chase!
Since you only recently acquired a password to post, and you obviously have a great deal to offer a group such as this, but only recently want to get involved in discussions here, that leads me to think you came here to sell your systems for oxygenating and distilling water.
How much space does such a system need and how much do they cost?
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David Anderson
Hello Grizz. Sorry I didn't get around to answering your post last night but got tired and so went to bed. But I'm up now, have had my first glass of water while waiting for the coffee to brew and am happily escounced at my computer and firing on all cylinders.
It used to be that I'd sit on the edge of the bed wondering if I dared stand up on my sixty one year old legs, finally take the great risk, stumble to the coffee pot, make the coffee, stubble to my office, turn on the computer, read for a while, finally remember to pour a cup of coffee, stumble back out to the coffee pot, only to find that there was no coffee as i'd either forgotten to add the coffee grounds, put the water in, or turn the coffee pot on. Ah, it's hell getting old!
I seldom have those problems any more, nor those creeping joint aches or grogginess that used to make me wonder if my legs would actually hold weight when I got out of bed.
But your're right, different strokes for different folks. What works for one doesn't seem to work for another. I rather think the main reason is not that the remedy doesn't work but rather that we are an impatient, selfish, and greedy lot here on planet earth- especially in America- and we figure that every problem we have should be immediately solved, in spite of the fact that many of our problems took sixty one years of neglect to show up at our doorstep. The Dandi Randi's (or whatever his name is) of the world take advantage of that fact with their cheap shots across the bow to talk people out of trying anything.
The problem with water is the cost of shipping and handling. It is second only to boiling water as the highest cost to industry world wide. Most food stuffs are mostly water and coke and pepsi learned early on that they'd better put a bottling plant in every major market they have or all the profits would go to the truckers, rail lines or Fedex.
When I started making the water I distilled my own water, oxygenated it and put it in two liter bottles and gave it away, with the stipulation that I'd give the folks more but they had to return the bottles. Amazing how inconsiderate folks are. I hardly ever got the bottles back and so became chief cook and bottle washer, scrounging around for used coke and pepsi bottles- sort of like Paw must feel, serving all that fine food and never getting a tip! Since I was already in the poor house the folks couldn't drive me there, but they did cause a whole lot of work that it finally dawned on me I didn't like to do.
So I figured out how to solve the problem. Buy the distilled water for a dollar a gallon, put oxygen in it, put it back in the same distilled water bottle and sell it for $5 a gallon. Ah, that lessened my work load considerably! Almost dropped it to zero, as a matter of fact. Surprising how many folks will compliment you on a great product when it's free and then call you a no good capitalist pig if you dare put a price on such a good product. All of a sudden it's a rotten product and totally worthless.
So the next best thing I could do was tell the folks how to make the water themselves- the old "give a man a pair of shoes and he'll need shoes again, teach him how to make a pair of shoes and he'll always have shoes" routine.
So, if you're anywhere near NE Ohio and can get here I'll be happy to give you a couple of gallons of the water to get you started, or if not you can probably find Penta Water somewhere. They're a California company and Safeway out in Claifornia carries it I hear. Around here one has to go to an upscale grocery store to find it and pay $1.83 of a 500 ml bottle (which works out to about $16 a gallon).
The alternatve is to make it yourself- and I've found over the past forty years that folks that passed through The Way are generally pretty resourceful and innovative people (you must admit that no run of the mill person would sit through 36 hours of lecture in a two week period). Anyway, I think it took Fred, Kit's husband, two days to get set up and make the water. He's an ex-Navy guy and tells me that they used to give oxygen to help drunken sailors get over it- a not unworthy reason to drink highly oxygenated water!
What you'll need is some kind of stainless steel pressure tank to put the water in for starters. The best I've come up with so far is the Corny Kegs that coke, pepsi and the other soft drink companies used to use. They hold five gallons- the perfect size for a horses water bucket! Corny Kegs are a glut on the market anymore, at least they were til recently, since the only folks that used them were the home brew folks that made beer in their garage.
If you can't find one in someones barn or a restaurant store room that is happy to get rid of it, you can buy them all cleaned and remanufactured from Sabco.com in Toledo, Ohio. As of six months or so ago they listed them for $40. With the price of nickel going through the roof that may be double now, but if you had to have a fabricator make one to order you're probably looking at a thosand dollar price tag. They're rated at 130 psi pressure- originally made by the Cornelius Company, but they don't make them any more. I think coke and pepsi use to pay $80-$100 for them when they bought them by the thousands. They are an engineers dream, a perfect solution for ten cents on the dollar!
Then you'll need an oxygen bottle and a regulator to go on it and some hose and fittings to get the oxygen into the Corny Keg. I use 60 psi pressure and leave it over night or until I need it, but that's only because I'm not all that concerned about wasted oxygen. It's certainly not a pollutant in the air!!!
For all I know 10 psi will work as well- but how long it takes to saturate the water I don't know. I use a two hundred cu. ft.(?) bottle of oxygen, which you may have in your garage if you have cutting torches. If not, it's better to lease them than to buy them if you move around a lot because there are as many unscrupulous welding supply places around as in any other small business, that will tell you the bottle you have is worthless and make you buy a new one rather than refilling the one you have. They usually get $100 deposit on the bottle instead of $100 to buy the bottle, but then when you go in for more they'll merely exchange bottles rather than having to refill yours. The oxygen costs about $20 and will last probably a year if you only make water for yourself and your familly.
But I learned while setting up Gene and Donna Randall with a system that you can buy these little 20 cu.ft. (?) bottles (at least you can at the welding supply place in Dayton) that cost $60, including the oxygen in it. They're much easier to carry than to lug the normal size bottle around. But refilling them also costs $20 or thereabouts so you end up paying more for the oxygen. Donna tells me they've made three batches and still have maybe half the oxygen left in their little tank. The guy at the welding supply place said he'd apply the full price of the small bottle to a larger one if she wanted the next time she came in. He was quite interested in the matter of oxygenating water and so I suggested to Donna that she take him a gallon and he'd probably upsize the bottle for nothing.
Then there's the oxygen regulator. They normally cost $80-$100 at the welding supply place. Although I've never bought any on ebay they are available there used for less than that. And if you have cutting torches you already have one.
A word of caution regarding oxygen bottles. They contain oxygen at a pressure of 2500 to 3000 psi and so are not for kids to play with. It is illegal to transport them without the screw on cap in place since if an accident were to occur and the valve on top knocked off, the tank becomes a rocket.
But then we pull into the gas station to get gas every day and so take our lives into our own hands and do so at our own risk because gasoline is a very flamible liquid and it's quite amazing to me that in all my years I've never heard of a gas station blowing up from some careless consumer lighting a match and blowing everyone up.
Fact is that we all need gas for our cars and so we take the risk, and rely on the proprieter of the gas station, the oil companies, the car companies and the government to keep the risk to a minimum. Now if only someone would come up with a way to take the nitrogen out of the air before it goes in the carburator, why our gas milage would go up dramatically, not having to heat up all that useless nitrogen and spitting out NOx gasses through the exhaust pipe.
Fact is that a car will no more run without oxygen than it will run without fuel. (just like the human body) We take the oxygen for granted because it's "free", but we pay a price anyway because we have to take four molecules of nitrogen along with one molecule of oxygen and heat them all up before combustion takes place and the oxygen is used.
I guess I also should say a word about medical grade oxygen and welding grade oxygen. It's all the same oxygen, obtained by taking air down to somewhere around minus 200 F, liquifying it, and then raising the temperature slowly to boil off one of them and further up the temperature scale boiling off the other. But they add back in 5% water for medical grade oxygen since evidently the tissue in the lungs is damaged if oxygen without moisture is breathed for 24 hours straight. But to get medical grade oxygen requires a doctors perscription, and costs much more than welding grade. Those who worship medical doctors might think that this is holy oxygen rather than the lowly stuff welders use to cut steel, but it's the same thing. Obviously welders don't want water in their oxygen and wouldn't buy medical grade even if they could get it. The other grade of oxygen is aviation grade and it is treated to get every last molecule of water out of it so valves don't stick at 50,000 feet while flying you across country and everyone in the plane die because of a sticking valve and no oxygen.
Man, that first glass of water and two cups of coffee really got me revved up this morning! So I'd better think about stopping. But before I do a few other things.
The nice thing about Korny Kegs is that they have a dip tube that runs to the bottom of the keg so when the oxygen is introduced it bubbles up from the bottom through the water rather than merely pressurizing it from the top. This helps the rate of oxygenation. And it has a safety relief valve that one can pull open to sparge off any other gasses that may be in the water if one doesn't use distilled water.
I think that does it, but if you have any specific questions email me at anders@en.com. I'd give my phone number but i don't return long distance calls because I'm more concerned where the next meal is coming from and how to pay the next gas, electric, auto insurance, and internet provider bill than I am in paying long distance telephone companies for the privilege of talking to somebody. And I seldom answer the phone anyway but rather let my answering machine do it because of the million solicitation calls that come every day anymore.
anyway Grizz, glad to hear that Fluff didn't tear your leg off. He sounds like he's going to do that to me every time I go up to the house. But as soon as Pastor Ernie opens the door he lies down, rolls over, and demands a belly rub from me in exchange for letting me in. Now that I think about it, I'm probably giving him a lymph therapy massage without even knowing it! Hmmm, maybe it wasn't only oxygenated water that helped his limp.
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krys
I apologize again for my agression and snyde remaarks....we were obviously posting at the same time and I had no way to know you were not fishing for sales.
My big mouth is noW officially shut whith a large amount of chagrin for glue!
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excathedra
kryssie, your mouth is "now" or "NOT" officially shut ???? typo ? freudian slip ? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
been there
mwah
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krys
Thanks Rev. Mother! the older I get, the feebler I get......and no amount of water will fix that!
Trust me - - take care of yourselves very well otherwise getting to the age of 62 1/2 ian't really worth it.
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excathedra
you know i was teasing you, right ?
love you
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krys
of course excathy - I knew you were teasing.
But I wasn't kidding about not taking care of yourself when you're younger.
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David Anderson
Hello Krys. Sorry to have taken so long to respond, but since my last post I was informed that my mother had passed away. She was a month away from her 96th birthday and died alone in a nursing home in God-forsaken West Virginia.
The powers that be are allowing her to finally come home and tomorrow she'll be laid to rest alongside dad with a tombstone already in place that reads, "Because Christ has Risen, we also will Rise", which she and I had placed there in 1990 when dad died and I returned to equally God-forsaken Cleveland.
My rotten siblings can do her no more damage now. But rest assured that someone paid close to a million dollars for her forced incarceration out of state for the last 11 years and it wasn't them. Democrats and Republicans are quick to point their finger at each other as the cause of all the financial problems this nation faces. But they won't admit that the government is rotten because so many people in this country are rotten and the folks in Washington only represent them. But I guess they never heard the Proverb about "better to hear the rebuke of the wise than the song of fools." That would hardly get them any votes in elections that are little more than popularity contests anymore. It's the politics of death and although mother was not always a little angel, she didn't deserve what she got for the last eleven years of her life. She did not have Alzheimers, dementia, senility, or whatever other excuse uncaring children generally give to have the state pay their mother's bills while they try to grab her house and everything else they can. I sympathize with those who truly need nursing home care, but mother was not one of them.
Anyway Krys, I'm sorry to have called your post in question but after first reading it I immediately called a friend, who has congestive heart failure, and suggested he find a massage therapist to see if a lymph massage might get rid of the water around his lungs that the doctors are concerned about. But when I reread your post it occurred to me that you might have been pulling my leg, in which case I might have actually done my friend damage instead of helping him.
It wouldn't have happened on a site that required real names for people to post. But here I can't assume people are telling the truth if they won't even give their real name. And hurt feelings or anger, etc. is hard to get serious about when I might be talking to Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse.
Fact is that Kit Sober wanted me to post the info about oxygenated water here six months ago but I couldn't get past the Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck routine that so often happens with annonomous posters. I never met a soul in my tenure with twi back in the sixties and early seventies that refused to give me their name.
I finally got over that when I realized how many jerks I've met over the years that did give me their name and figured I could do no worse than that. But it seems I have done worse than that by relying on your information and then questioning it.
If you care to send me an email with your real name I'll be happy to apologize personally.
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Galen
David-
"Hello Krys. Sorry to have taken so long to respond, but since my last post I was informed that my mother had passed away. She was a month away from her 96th birthday and died alone in a nursing home in God-forsaken West Virginia."
We are sorry to hear of your mother's passing.
". . . a tombstone already in place that reads, "Because Christ has Risen, we also will Rise""
That is a very nice quote to put onto a tombstone.
"It wouldn't have happened on a site that required real names for people to post. But here I can't assume people are telling the truth if they won't even give their real name. And hurt feelings or anger, etc. is hard to get serious about when I might be talking to Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse."
Even here you will see that many of us do in fact use our real names when we post.
". . . I couldn't get past the Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck routine that so often happens with annonomous posters. I never met a soul in my tenure with twi back in the sixties and early seventies that refused to give me their name."
I understand and I also find it frustrating at times.
"But it seems I have done worse than that by relying on your information and then questioning it."
No, you did what you thought best at the time.
No matter what I hear, and what 'sounds' interesting; I must do research if I am going to act on such a hint. I am certainly glad when someone suggests to me something that they feel is good. But are they a 'doctor'? Are they 'qualified' to make a proper assessment of my health and conditions? I must take the end responsibility for what I do.
I learn a great deal here as well as on other boards. Ever since I first began visiting BBS's in the mid 1980's, I feel that many have had things to offer, for our growth and learning. But it all must be taken with a dose of salt also. Can colon cleansing help some people? Sometimes? Possibly. Is it the end of that will help everyone? Probably not. But I can still learn from reading the posts of those on that band-wagon. [filtering through the flames, and jokes, and distractors].
Again our thoughts and prayers are with you in this time of sorrow.
ET1 (SS) Galen Young
USN retired
.
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krys
David:
I don't know which I would grieve for more...your mother's death, or the siblings casting lots for her posesions while she "rots" away in an unnecessary nursing home.
I've been there, with a sibling. We are now permanently estranged because of it. When my parents started failing in their health, they were 1200 miles away in FL and I went down summers and various long weekends to help. My brother called them once in a while to tell them what to sell and to insist they give him charge over their estate so he could "help".
There is a thread around here somewhere where I've discussed "Burrying my Brother" because I took a stand, and when Mom offerred to put my name on their accounts instead of his, all hell broke loose. Since I came to help, and my sibbling called to advise them...I guess she figured I was the lesser of 2 evils.
There's more to the story....but the end result is the same...except that after Mom died, I spent my father's money on him...my DH took a second mortgage on a house that was almost paid off and we built a second story onto our ranch house. We moved outselves and our children upstairs, and Dad moved into the bedrooms downstairs with one reserved for his "assistant" and he and she became an integral part of our family's life for a bit over 2 years while we lived together until he died. He did suffer from dimentia.
I am sincerely offering condolences for both of your losses.
Sometimes, it's not names on boards such as this. Anyone can sign up with any name one wants...be it real or otherwise. I generally determine a poster's integrity by their overall reputation in what they say and where they say it (which forum).
Lately, my time on the computer is very short due to a pesky exhaust fan problem (see the Computer forums for info) so it will be a while before I get to post again, I think.
Again I apologize for mis-reading you, I do very much like the Penta Water and appreciate the tip. I don't know if I will want to set up a system or not....to be determined.
For very intimate private reasons, it is not likely that I will give you my real name any time soon. I mean no offense, but there are reasons for it. You have a Private Topic waiting for you where we can talk about this some more if you'd like.
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excathedra
i'm sorry about your mom, David
also, i think people here are real people whether they use a screen name or not
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David Anderson
Hello again Krys. I got your private message in my email box. Thanks. I'd like to ask for your help in a matter that came up a year ago regarding oxygenated water. But first I have to tell the story of how it arose.
My 79 year old cousin, best friend, and god-father, had lymphatic leukemia for at least five years prior to the event that caused me to put oxygenated water on the front burner of my life. About a year and a half ago we were down at the Cleveland Clinic waiting for his name to be called when he went over to get a drink of water and couldn't make it back to his seat in the lobby area. He just grabbed onto the reception desk and collapsed to the floor.
Since his wife, Doris, doesn't drive, I'd been taking him for chemotherapy for the previous six months and the visits were happening with increasing regularity. This incident told me he'd run out of oxygen and I knew it was now getting serious indeed.
So when I got back to the shop I started figuring out how I was going to make some oxygenated water to get to him. I didn't have any stainless pressure tanks at the time and so used a carbon steel one I had that would make 5 gallons at a time. Seems ironic that my first job as an engineer back in the sixties was designing boiler plants, which involved, in part, taking out every last molecule of oxygen I could from the feed water because oxygen is death on iron and boiler tubes will rust through in a hurry without feed water treatment. And now, 40 years later, I was trying to figure out how to get the maximum amount of oxygen into water to help a man with a very serious and immediate problem.
So I oxygenated some water, tapped off the first gallon to get rid of the iron, drank some to make sure I wouldn't die, and then took some over to Russ.
The next morning I was driving across town and stopped at a gas station to use their restroom. I noticed that my urine was colorless- probably the first time since Grace Bliss's class back in the sixties. when I got home I called Russ and asked him if he'd noticed anything after drinking the water.
He reported that his urine was colorless and added that it had been a dark brown for a long time due to all the medications he was taking. I reported that the same thing had happened to me and we concluded that the oxygenated water was doing something (but I had not yet come across howstuffworks.com and so had no idea of the mechanism that might be involved.)
As the days progressed he noticed that the severe lower back pain he experienced, particularly after taking one of his many pills in the morning, left within five minutes if he drank a glass of the water. This was in June of 2003.
I recommended that he tell his doctor he was drinking the water the next time we went for chemo, in the event he might have reason to tell him not to drink it. He didn't, just yawned as if that was the most boring piece of information he'd ever had to suffer through.
But he didn't tell Russ not to drink it and so he continued. Russ continued to drink the water and seemed to think it helped him- at lest he had no more lower back pain after taking the pill in the morning. And, he didn't faint anymore during any of our continuing, and increasing, trips to the Clinic.
Evidently lymphatic leukemia causes the spleen to sequester hemoglobin and not let it go and so more and more transfusions went along with the chemo treatments as June went to July and July to August.
Finally the doctor said that although he was very reluctant to recommend it, he and the other staff doctors had reviewed his case and found no alternativea to removing his spleen. It evidently is a high risk surgery and many people in his condition don't make it off the operating table except in a plastic bag.
Russ came through the surgery in fine order, but the surgeon said it was by far the largest spleen he had ever removed. It was the size of a small football and weighed six pounds. the normal spleen weighs 8 ounces I am told.
Anyway, by September/October I was beginning to learn about hyperbarics and so found the name of the world expert in the field, Dr. Philip James. He is the head of the Wolfson Hyperbaric Medical Unit at the University of
Dundee in Stonewall England, heads the UN taskforce on Obesity, consults with the oil companies and their divers in the North Sea oil fields, and his predicessor, Dr. Haldane, is known world wide as the Father of Oxygen Therapy. (he developed the first diving tables for the Royal Navy about the time Bullinger was publishing his Companion Bible- see also "The Haldane Effect" on metabolism.)
Anyway, I sent an email to Dr. James, in the improbable event that he'd reply, explaining what had happened to Russ and I after drinking oxygenated water. I was primarily interested in finding out if there was any downside to drinking oxygenated water.
To my delightful surprise, he did reply and assured me that there was no downside to the limited amount of oxygen that water could hold. He also said he found it "remarkable" that our urine turned colorless after drinking the water.
And so, here is the question you can perhaps help me with. What did he mean by "remarkable"?
Since he's a medical doctor I'm sure he meant more than "far out" or "groovy man". But it wasn't until months later that I got the chance to send him another email and ask him. He didn't reply to that email.
About all I know about the subject to date is that the yellow in urine is caused by the chromium ion (but forget now if it is chrome +3 or chrome +6). Anyway, one of the states is yellow the other is not and so I rather expect that drinking highly oxygenated water moves the pH from the acid side to the basic side of the pH scale.
I did my first go-through of the Haldane Effect, the Bohr Effect, Hemoglobin loading curves, CO2 and bicarbonate balances a few months ago but need to go through that kind of stuff three or four times before begining to get a picture of what is going on.
I'm sure glad you mentioned that you know Newtonian Physics about as well as biology since Physics isn't known to be a very popular subject among most folks generally- even medical doctors! And physics + biology is a rare find indeed!
Actually, molecules colliding with each other aren't all that different than cars colliding with people- except on a much smaller scale. And I know about cars colliding with people as well as you do because I should have been dead from a car accident in the winter of '65-'66. (Much to the chagrin of lots of folks I'm not dead.) And one that happened three years ago while I was on a bicycle crossing an intersection with the "walk" signal out in Fremount, Ca left me with so many broken bones in my left wrist that it took nine pins and eight hours of surgery to hold them all together again, not to mention a torsion fracture to my left leg. Not only was I one handed for a good while, I was one sided! Sure wish I would have known about hyperbaric therapy then as I would have found one to hop into on a regular basis in a hurry.
So here's hoping you recover completely from your bouts of rectal-octal-itis (which I also know about first hand. That's the disease caused by the nerve endings of the eyes and nerve endings of the rectum getting crossed so as to give one a crappy outlook on life. Happens to me all the time!)
So what did Dr. James mean by "remarkable"?
Best wishes, dave
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krys
David:
-- sigh - - finally, I have discovered a name for the condition!Sorry, Dave - not quite true except in rare instances. What happens when molecules collide is Chemistry or Quantum Chemistry or some other such thing. Those are subjects I know very little or nothing about, except they exist.
I hope your cousin is doing well now?
Lower back pain is offen associated with kidney problems, either infection, a stone or tumor (or something else)
I'm curious how you knew your cousin's oxygen levels were low. Were his nailbed and lips blue or purple? He might have gotten even more benefit from oxygen had his doctors put him on supplemtal oxygen to breathe as well as your oxygenated water!
I'm not a physician, so I can only suggest why the urine changed color.
When a person is taking chemotherapy, cells die. Good ones and bad ones. The body is very very stingy, it does not give up easily any part of something which is still worthwhile. It rather takes the cell fragments and/or molecules apart to use again.(something like taking down a large lego structure to use the blocks again in some other structure).
As this happens what is truly waste is cast out into the lymph where it is pused around until the large lymph vessels dump their contents into the vena cava just before entering the heart. So it gets mixed back in with the blood. Once this gunk reaches the liver and kidneys, they set up and pass the junk out.
Dark urine shows that lots of junk is being cast out....light or pale urine shows little junk needs to be passed out.
Not having a Doctorate in Physiology, I can only suspect that the extra oxygen introduced into the digestive system was directed to the liver.The additional oxygen PLUS the additional water allowed the liver to operate more efficiently...and likewise the kidneys. Eventually when the bulk of the "nastys" were eliminated, the urine returned to it's more normal state. Sorry, I cannot give you a more complete answer.
As far as your friend which CHF - let me tell you that in all my trips to various therapy sessions after the accident I passed by a room with a man in a bouncing chair. He looked like he was riding a bronco...but he was strapped in very well...and his legs and arms had inflating and deflating pillows alternately squeezing around him. It was very noisy.
I asked the attendant who was walking me to my treatment area what that was and was told it was a treatment method to remove extra water from a man with CHF! Therefore, I don't think massage therapy would have any negative effect on your friend. The very least....it would relax him and provide him a period well being.
I enjoy talking with you, but these conversations may be boring to the general GS population, so if they start getting antsy, we should continue in the private topic section. They may not object, since many enjoy learning these kinds of things, it is just for future reference.
Zixar probably knows more chemistry than I do, so perhaps if you need to know some of that, he's probably your man. I understand it to a degree, but to a small one.
krys - - who apologizes in advance for typos, but cannot take time to go looking and checking because she's still dealing with a pesky fan.
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krys
I forgot your question about "remarkable".
Drs usually use that term when they see results which are outside of normal expectations.
In a diagnosis, one might read "the size of each atria is unremarkable"....when I had a cardiac echocardiagram to check that my heart was not physically damaged in the accident....that was written in the report. It just meant that every thing in that part of the exam was normal. Doctors generally make a "remark" when something is abnormal. So this man probably meant that your friends results were extraordinarily good.
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Kit Sober
Hope you don't go to private topic on this. I am really enjoying it (and am not knowledgeable to add anything noteworthy).
Kit
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