Anyone Into Reiki?

[satori001]

quote:

Originally posted by sirguessalot:

and what of the cult of cynicism?

Haven't heard of it.

doesn't the "cult of skepticism" have its own "sales pitch?"

Does it?

does it claim a special unique sense of reliability that no other can offer?

Skepticism and cynicism are entirely different things. Skepticism comes from the Greek root meaning "to examine."

are there skeptics who make money off their school of thought? give lectures? sell books?

It's not a school of thought. If anyone represented himself as the Grandmaster of Skepticism, I'd be skeptical.

and so, where are the statistics that prove skepticism brings more wellness and healing than reiki?

Skepticism, per se, is an intellectual defense. As such it may not bring wellness, but it may well prevent harm. I believe that would be far easier to demonstrate than the healing power of reiki.

is the burden on others to prove the flood of skeptical warnings wrong?

Any decent salesman calls them "objections." If you want to win people's agreement, it is incumbent upon you to overcome their objections. Yes, that is your burden, as it should be.

however sincere a cynic may be, like anyone else, they may still be taken in by the promise of an non-existent ideal, right?

I'm trying to imagine sincere cynicism. Sincerity and cynicism don't seem to be components of one another. What do you think? Do you make any sense whatsoever? I'm skeptical.

[satori001]

quote:

Originally posted by sirguessalot:

i think cold hard skeptical science's greater value can be found if it will bother to realize the obvious mountains of subtler and causal "realities" of human experience, and their great value

You presume it doesn't. Skepticism has no problem with "subtlety." Fantasy is another thing.

i mean...thousands and thousands of years of history and success from all over the world...

Success? Thousands of years of famine, disease, and early mortality? As a race, what does not kill us makes us stronger. Darwin noticed that. Nietzsche said it. I don't know if we can credit aboriginal arts to our survival, since so many of our ancestors are now dead.

to deny or somehow strive to suppress the arts and sciences of these subtler and causal realities is to increase suffering, to some degree

Who's suppressing anything? Is asking for evidence now "suppression?"

yet, as a compartment of being, skepticism is vital. like a liver. or a samarai sword.

Oh, well of course, I go along with that 100%. :P-->

[satori001]

quote:

Originally posted by sirguessalot:

reminds me of how Australia's weather service now makes use of aboriginal methods because of its accuracy

Really? How so? Lunar trends? Great. If there is EVIDENCE that it works, let's use it.

one is evolving and developing recently

the other has been in use for thousands of years

sounds like a marriage made in heaven to me

if the enmity can be removed

Skepticism is not "enmity." There is far more implied hostility in your own statement than anywhere in the phrase, "Show me."

[satori001]

quote:

Originally posted by sirguessalot:

there are these things inside of us called electricity, gas, water, salt, breath, DNA, atomic energy, space

also: thoughts, dreams, passion, sorrow, rage, joy, voices, images

You left out headaches.

[satori001]

quote:

Originally posted by sirguessalot:

poverty and illness often go hand in hand

strict western medicine has done a lot of damage in this area, worldwide

more than any alternative medicine, imo

Your opinion is flat out wrong. Western medicine, despite all of its shortcomings, is responsible for saving millions upon millions of poor people from a wretched death. Malaria, for instance. Western science and agriculture is responsible for feeding them. Western economies attempt to save them when their own governments, often brutal regimes, are content to see them starve.

sirguessalot, your view of the world seems to be in equal parts romantic and naive. If you think about it, speaking in modified haiku does not make you any more insightful. Just something I've noticed.

How many malaria victims, by the way, has reiki saved? Accupuncture? Chanting? Faith healing? Quinine sulfate (plus antibiotics)? Hey, we have a winner! Quinine sulfate and antibiotics it is!

[sirguessalot]

quote:

Success? Thousands of years of famine, disease, and early mortality? As a race, what does not kill us makes us stronger. Darwin noticed that. Nietzsche said it. I don't know if we can credit aboriginal arts to our survival, since so many of our ancestors are now dead.

i did not credit aboriginal arts to our survival

straw man

100 years ago, the #3 killer was the hershey squirts

and you oughtta look into other evolutionary writings and studies.

quote:

Really? How so? Lunar trends? Great. If there is EVIDENCE that it works, let's use it.

they are. i already said that.

they are using things like lizards and flowers

look it up

quote:

Skepticism is not "enmity." There is far more implied hostility in your own statement than anywhere in the phrase, "Show me."

i did not say skepticism was enmity

read again, plz

and try not to project your own hostility

quote:

Who's suppressing anything? Is asking for evidence now "suppression?"

no, its the way you haunt a topic

mock, ridicule, use very selective language

verbal intimidation

that kinda thing

quote:

Your opinion is flat out wrong. Western medicine, despite all of its shortcomings, is responsible for saving millions upon millions of poor people from a wretched death.

duh. i never said it didn't, so you are flat out wrong about that, i guess

btw - i do not speak in modified haiku

i, like many others, may speak somewhat guarded around you. keeping it loose

cuz you're like a wolf on the prowl, at times, satori

when it comes to dialogue

its a gift or something

though it can be exhausting

i do not say that from a hostile place

think of it as a compliment, sorta

Edited July 26, 2005 by sirguessalot

[sirguessalot]

not all cultures and era of human history were inflicted with disease

just as the world has many places right now inflicted with disease

during periods of history, healing arts excelled in different places.

the connection between business and politics and religion and medicine can and does marginalize an entire people, or economic group

how can we debate the validity of medicines, without discussing the application and availability?

btw- neither romantic nor naive, Satori

quote:

ow many malaria victims, by the way, has reiki saved? Accupuncture? Chanting? Faith healing? Quinine sulfate (plus antibiotics)? Hey, we have a winner! Quinine sulfate and antibiotics it is!

straw man

Malaria is not the only affliction in this life

and again, i do not question the valitidy of western medicine. only the cultural and idealogical environments that tends to limit its effectiveness (including retro-only prejudices from alternative and traditional ways)

we already have the money and knowledge to pretty much heal the entire world right now.

[sirguessalot]

yes, there is a romanticism that inflicts evolution of understanding

but not to be confused with an intentional descension to earlier forms, if only to bring them up to speed (as opposed to simply rejecting them)

this is becoming ever clearer in both eastern and western philosophies and sciences

[sirguessalot]

there are post-post-modern movements in science and medicine that include things like Reiki therapy

although, they are also post-rational, and so includes all previous modes, and continues to evaluate each tradition and school, even those that are only a hundred or so years old

welcome to the 21st century, i guess

[sirguessalot]

another problem with all schools of medicine, is the exploding complexity that comes with rapid evolutionary thrust. we have so many specialists that truly have to dedicate so many years in their field, that they are often quite ignorant of a lot of other modes.

the remedy for this is the aim of that third branch of medicine i mentioned somewhere...to integrate and include (and not by force), rather than isolate and exclude

Edited July 26, 2005 by sirguessalot

[sirguessalot]

Satori, i guess "extremely tenecious" is perhaps a better phrase than "wolf on the prowl"

btw - i think wolves are beautiful creatures...especially when on the prowl

;)-->

also, for your knowledge, "enmity" is simply another way of saying duality, or seperation.

like wolves, i think enmity is a beautiful meaningful word

[sirguessalot]

quote:

Skepticism, per se, is an intellectual defense. As such it may not bring wellness, but it may well prevent harm.

But there are many kinds of intelligence in each of us. And in most opinions, skepticism should not lead when it comes to healing.

when it consistently leads (as it does in so many sciences), it can work against us and reduce possibilities

also, what about when skepticism is used mostly offensively? when no one is attacking the role of skepticism?

quote:

I believe that would be far easier to demonstrate than the healing power of reiki.

too bad ease is such a deciding factor in all this

some people work really really hard all their lives to find healing and wholeness for themselves and their loved ones

[Steve!]

So you say skepticism should not lead when it comes to healing.

So are you willing to try Colloidal Silver? Shark Cartilage? Penta Water? just because there are some to claim benefits from them?

How about vaccinations? Are you willing to have your kids forgo getting vaccinations because there is one unsupported and scientifically less-than-perfect study out there that connects vaccinations with autism?

Were I you, I might rethink my position on healthy skepticism.

[sirguessalot]

all things in moderation, Steve.

you know that

what of love?

what of hope?

what of faith?

are they just words?

can they live?

can they lead?

literally?

quote:

So are you willing to try Colloidal Silver? Shark Cartilage? Penta Water? just because there are some to claim benefits from them?

no

i dont think those things were ever brought up

you know it

quote:

Were I you, I might rethink my position on healthy skepticism.

i dont think you read much of what i've written here

[sirguessalot]

Steve, those straw men you've propped up are not the same as the 1000 and 2000 and 3000 and 4000 year old medicines and schools of thought that have emerged thru all bloods of people

nor the more recent synthesises and resurrections of them. some of which, have already been integrating with western medicine for over a hundred years

lineages do not get that old because everyone dies. though they may get forgotten, suppressed, marginallized, reinvented, mocked, stolen, renamed, hidden, etc...anything

[sirguessalot]

honestly, healing traditions do not get that old because they kill everyone

stupid things like deforestation will

or invasions

or genocide

or tyranny

or poverty

or greed

etc...

[sirguessalot]

quote:

So are you willing to try Colloidal Silver? Shark Cartilage? Penta Water? just because there are some to claim benefits from them?

again, no. because many of the fundmamental mediums of the most advanced eastern and western healing arts i have experienced are damn near free.

things like:

air

fire

water

earth

good food

good herbs

good dialogue

good technique

good intentions

touch

music

sex

art

etc...

and because, in my wanderings, i learned to carry my skeptic in my pocket, not in my hand

there are much more effective and time-tested things than pop-fads

[sirguessalot]

quote:

Your opinion is flat out wrong. Western medicine, despite all of its shortcomings, is responsible for saving millions upon millions of poor people from a wretched death. Malaria, for instance. Western science and agriculture is responsible for feeding them. Western economies attempt to save them when their own governments, often brutal regimes, are content to see them starve.

notice, i said "strict western medicine" has done a lot of damage

in that when and where it is strict, historically, it has often suppressed other means of healing

heck, darn near all healing traditions have this kind of mark in their history somewhere

and yes, like i said too, brutal regimes do cause widespread illness and poverty and hunger, etc...

often suppressing traditional healing methods

poverty and illness go hand in hand

any form of tyranny can select and oppress any school or lineage

any

though discussing medicine in its political context is a valid and important direction, it has little do with whether or not a healing tradition is valid or not..as a practice

or whether or not subtle energies can be moved by touch, or at will

or whether that can be studied and practiced and taught and further developed and integrated

or whether it has been going on throughout human history

[sirguessalot]

contrary to belief...none of the traditional medicines and lineages flourish in any of the countries of their origin any more.

not in their original form.

not like they did b4

some of them are so old, they have not flourished there for a long time.

tho the language, the art, the rituals, the songs, are often still intact on the surface.

its easy to look at India's poverty and problems and poo poo ayurveda

its easy to look at a rez and poo poo the sweat lodge

heck, you could easily and foolishly ask yourself why "the Buddha would let Tibet be invaded"

way easy

[sirguessalot]

as far as "cult of skepticism"

not all "cults" are as formal as twi

many are more unconsciousness/spontaeneous gatherings.

which might make it more occultic then, i guess

like everything else, simply arising from the anthropological muck for "some strange reason"

and so my labelling of it as "cult" is partially tongue-in-cheek...but part not.

Cuz like seeks like as much as it seeks unlike, naturally.

and i dont think there is anything wrong with our way of grouping/churching/schooling, whatever

and yes, there seem to be prolific "grand poobahs" of a more modern cynical version of skepticisms. hard to miss, actually. i would go as far as to add it to the great valid traditions of mankind's evolution. with a long and growing history. why not?

like all traditions, they only get nasty when they cut themselves off from the rest of the tree, so to speak

btw - cynicism and skepticism seem like kissing cousins to me. not equal, but they overlap. sometime bear children together, that sort of thing...

[sirguessalot]

from a quackwatch writer:

quote:

The skeptics' line, "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof," is justifiable on probabilistic grounds, but the difficulty of determining a priori probabilities is a serious drawback. This may prevent communication with non-skeptics unless they are willing to adopt our strict standards so as to achieve general acceptance. A strict but not "extraordinary" standard of ordinary good science and replicability is risky because most skeptics would not actually believe typical paranormal claims if evidence at that level were provided.

what cult?

lol

[ChasUFarley]

My comments are in the brackets.... [ ]

LONGGONE POSTED:

quote:

They're broke, hopeful as all-get-out that the chemo is going to work, but have no proof - just statistics ... as hope. Now, that's scary!

ChasUFarley, if I'm misreading you, please forgive me, then explain what you mean. That said...

You should know as well as anyone that those statistics are the best surety that anyone can offer. If the best that chemo can offer is a 20% chance of living five more years, then that knowledge provides a person a basis for an informed decision. [Yes, sometimes an informed decision is the best modern medicine can offer. After that, it’s patient’s choice.] Claims of being able to channel a mystical life energy give no such basis. [True – however neither is a “sure thing”. This comment is a reflection on what Satori “HeWhoClaimsToKnowAll” said about people’s money being taken. Remember – just because a patient has all the information to make an “informed decision”, it doesn’t mean they’re going to always choose what has the highest survival rate or best outcome.]

As long as a person is fully informed, I don't care if he wants to eat donkey dung if it makes him happier. Let him. But I won't give much respect to the promotion of the practice, even if it's certified by the donkey dung guru of the world, unless there are some statistics to show that it benefits a significant number of people. I feel pretty much the same way about reiki. [As do I. But again, as a patient’s advocate I feel it’s important that they be able to pursue these sort of treatments, hopefully along with traditional medicine, and include it as treating the spiritual being, while letting physicians treat their physical being. Again, to me it comes down to choice. I don’t see this as a fad – and I think we will see more things like this merge into our society as time goes on.]