hmm, which are the gay people in the ad? Hard to tell! Is it the bouncer? , the elderly couple? Everyone? I dunno. I do not see anything controversial in the ad. There is no mention of Gay marriage. It looks to me that the ad is exactly what is described, a message of Jesus's acceptance of ALL people who seek to know God.
I guess I would have to see CBS's version of the denial, but from this version, I would say the network needs to be boycotted.
The implication that churches turn people away because they are brown, for one thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some knuckle dragging churches where that happens, but the overwhelming majority of churches do not (and by that, I mean doctrinally).
I think the first people turned away by the bouncers might be a gay couple, but I'm not sure. I agree with WordWolf that the last couple is probably lesbian. Nobody's kissing or holding hands, so there's nothing but honest speculation to base that on.
I don't like the ad, but I'm surprised anyone would refuse to air it, especially considering that the networks routinely air newscasts where mainstream Christianity is treated with far greater malice than this ad suggests.
===
Quick correction after looking at the ad again: the first couple is gay. They're holding hands as they walk up to the bouncer. As for the last couple, one woman has her arm around the other: not conclusive, but certainly suggestive that they are a "couple."
I have no doubt that gays and lesbians would not feel welcome at many mainstream churches, although they would be allowed in. But to think that blacks and Latinos would not feel welcome at many mainstream churches stretches credibility. I've been to churches in the South. I'm sure it happens, don't get me wrong, but it's not the norm. Far from it. Gays and lesbians - totally different story. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
If true, it can only increase the already stongly existing viewpoint of many gay people that there is alienation.
However, the UCC is a Canadian body and it's appeal to people on the US side can only be limited unless they live close to the border.
Actually, Trefor, the UCC denomination was formed in the US, as a result of a merger between the Congregational Church and Evangelical and Reformed Church denominations. You can read about it in this Wikipedia writeup.
Yes, folks, the denomination that created this advert has its roots in the same theology that created such theological luminaries such as VPW (does that make them sort of connected to TWI?) -->
Having said that, fundamental tenents of their theology include inclusiveness and progressiveness. (So, if some of you are looking for a church, this might be someplace to consider)
quote:It's true that most churches don't have bouncers at the door but once inside there are other methods, perhaps more subtle, but equally rejecting.
But I will reserve full judgement until I can get to view the ad.
And that is a shame, Trefor. Even if a church disapproves of a particular behavior pattern, they ought to welcome everybody to at least come in and learn.
I saw the ad, and after the bouncer scenes, the next two frames (1 second each) say --
"Jesus never turned anyone away"
"Neither do we."
Then they show the photos of their congregation, with all the various ages, "minorities", etc., etc. How can this be called "non-inclusive??
The statement directly under the clip, said :
quote: UCC's first 30-second television advertisement - part of the denomination's new, broad identity campaign - began airing nationwide on Dec. 1, stating that - like Jesus - the United Church of Christ seeks to welcome all people, regardless of ability, age, race, economic circumstance or sexual orientation. (bold my emphasis)
The ad has been accepted and will air on a mix of broadcast and cable networks, including ABC Family, AMC, BET, Discovery, Fox, Hallmark, History, Nick@Nite, TBS, TNT, Travel and TV Land.
On the eve before the campaign's launch, negotiations with CBS and NBC broke down, after the networks deemed the UCC's all-inclusive message as "too controversial."
UCC Ad Campaign Announcement
Nov. 29, 2004
The only "inciteful" part of the ad is the bouncers, and UCC makes the distinct delineation (in those two frames), that they are definitely NOT part of the church scene that only allows well-dressed, well-groomed white folk, and no one else in to worship.
Like I say -- what did I miss? I think CBS and others would welcome this ad as a "politically correct" one, as well as a slap in the face to those like TBN -- who promote the opposite of all that CBS espouses.
Just a passing thought after seeing the ad, reading the UCC statement underneath it, and hearing of it's rejection -- I wonder if CBS and NBC caved in to "Main Stream" Denominations, that were obviously the ones being portrayed, by the bouncer scene.
I think dmiller has a point. Any church that accepts gays will instantly become a target for the right wing religious conservatives. They will be ostracized and shunned, just like Jesus was. ;)--> The self righteousness of these religious bigots only serves to conceal their own dysfunction.
Raf, Where I live, brown people are not welcome in the churches. These so-called Christian people will admit that all people are equal in God's eyes, but go on to say that races should stick to their "own kind". You can walk in any major church in this city and every face you see will be white. Any person of color that ventures in for a Sunday service will be made to feel quite uncomfortable. It's the way they prefer it and the way they keep it. A guy I know from work is an elder at his church and told me that if any brown people are seen in his neighborhood, they better have a leaf blower on their back. I have been in other parts of the country where this is not true, but in this part of the country (midwest), you can almost choke on the racism, it's everywhere. It's one of the major reasons that I do not attend any churches in this area.
I apologise Mark - the group I was reading at the time said United Church of Canada whereas obviously it is the United Church of Christ!
Having now been able to see the ad I thought it thought-provoking and challenging. I loved the phrase "no matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." It is not pushing a pre set agenda or making pre judgments, asking for people to fit into a particular mould.
If a network has a policy of no religious advertising, as Raf states, then there can be no claim of unfair or unequal treatment. That is certainly the policy of terrestrial TV networks over here, although about 3 or 4 years ago there was an LDS ad for its video Lamb of God. Perhaps that got through because it was advertising the video rather than the church directly. The ad campaign was of short duration and I only caught the ad once.
The bouncer scenario is a clear statement that a church should not be like an exclusive nightclub. It is a sad fact that many people do not feel welcomed or wanted and they are very used to having their lifestyles condemned and criticised by religious figures using the media.
But I did not see the ad as being particularly directed at gay people - I could not see anything in it which remotely suggested this. It came across to me as an invitation to all the "halt and the lame" who feel rejected and unwanted.
Sorry to hear that's the way things are in your community. I have no doubt there are churches right here in South Florida that are exactly the same. I doubt they are the majority, but I cannot knowingly deny they exist.
quote:If a network has a policy of no religious advertising, as Raf states, then there can be no claim of unfair or unequal treatment.
There's still something fishy here though. CBS should have outright denied the claim in the UCC press release, but they didn't, which suggests to me they are guilty of what UCC claims.
quote:"and the fact the Executive Branch has recently proposed a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, this spot is unacceptable for broadcast on the [CBS and UPN] networks."
That has nothing to do with any policy of not accepting ads for religions.
That's not the way it is here in Memphis, Tennessee, either. All the white churches seem to be doing their best to get black folks in the doors. That goes for the conservative Baptists to the liberal Main Line denominations like Disciples Of Christ where I am a member. We get ourselves a token black and WHAM! in a year he's made a deacon and a year later he's made an elder. All so that everybody can point their fingers at their own "diversity".
The sticking point seems to be the black churches which appear to be guarding their turf. Their participation in the inter-denominational groups have noticably dropped off in the last 10 years. Heck, 30 years ago all you mainly had in those groups were the black churches, a few liberal white churches and a liberal Jewish shul or two. My how things change when things change. -->
It is a sad truth that the most segregated hour in America is 11 a.m. Sunday morning.
Alot has to do with culture, people flock to others who look and feel like them. I have never gone to a church which has ostracized anyone. Some have been disciplined for behavior unbecoming a member, but that's about it.
The belief that gays and lesbians are not welcome at church is a misconception for the most part. All are welcome as they are initially, but God does demand some changes in behavior after salvation. So maybe that's the rub.
In Canada, pastors are not allowed the freedom to speak out against homosexuality. It's considered hate speech.
Not wishing to go too much over old ground but just to remind you that not everyone has the same conception of what God demands as others.
The reason it is considered hate speech is precisely how it too often comes across - the against bit is too often in some kind of inflamatory language or another without comprehension and understanding. The discipline can be applied with an iron fist when people do not measure up the to rules, regulations and expectations demanded of them.
well...here is new Mehiko race, gender preference...well anything goes---bald with pony tail..
I think we have many mixed race marriages.....more than most states, plenty of different kinds of sexuality...especially being so close to Trinidad Colorado.
We have racism...but I think we have an overload of Political Correctness that many will hide behind
In my area So. Ca. most churches accept anyone that wants to join. The church I go to occasionally has every race you can imagine and they all get along fine. They love each other and respect other custums Its a very large non-denomontional church with thousands of members, I don't know about the rest of the state but here in Los Angeles County thats the way it is.
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GarthP2000
So the major networks are being run and tightly controlled by the 'politically correct' liberals in what way? ... How?
... Oh wait! Apparently 'political correctness' has taken on a new meaning. Conservative political correctness.
Ohh Ok
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HAPe4me
hmm, which are the gay people in the ad? Hard to tell! Is it the bouncer? , the elderly couple? Everyone? I dunno. I do not see anything controversial in the ad. There is no mention of Gay marriage. It looks to me that the ad is exactly what is described, a message of Jesus's acceptance of ALL people who seek to know God.
I guess I would have to see CBS's version of the denial, but from this version, I would say the network needs to be boycotted.
~HAP
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WordWolf
*sees the commercial*
No, I don't believe we are being told the truth
here. The networks would never refuse something
this mild, nor would they claim to kowtow to the
Federal Govt.
I found the "objectionable content".
It required rewinding.
It's almost at the very end.
The very LAST "couple" in shot, for ONE SECOND.
Compared to shows they pay to air, it's very
mild. They wouldn't refuse to take someone's
money for that reason-and they ARE in business
to sell advertising time, first and foremost.
I DID find a number of references online to
the UCC trying to challenge the govt or object
to any regulation of tv.
Further, I found their OWN articles admitted
most of the public HAS NEVER HEARD OF THEM.
This looks to me like something they cooked up
to get their name on the map.
So far, I haven't seen anyone pick up the
story-the only source for this is a
PRESS RELEASE by the UCC.
They're a little biased-do we have an
objective report anywhere? Did either network
comment? Worse, conservative networks on
cable supposedly agreed to air it-
TV land, Nick at Nite, ABC Family-already.
Either they weren't turned down,
or the stated reason was completely false.
It's too ridiculous to believe in its present
form.
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Raf
What's objectionable?
The implication that churches turn people away because they are brown, for one thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some knuckle dragging churches where that happens, but the overwhelming majority of churches do not (and by that, I mean doctrinally).
I think the first people turned away by the bouncers might be a gay couple, but I'm not sure. I agree with WordWolf that the last couple is probably lesbian. Nobody's kissing or holding hands, so there's nothing but honest speculation to base that on.
I don't like the ad, but I'm surprised anyone would refuse to air it, especially considering that the networks routinely air newscasts where mainstream Christianity is treated with far greater malice than this ad suggests.
===
Quick correction after looking at the ad again: the first couple is gay. They're holding hands as they walk up to the bouncer. As for the last couple, one woman has her arm around the other: not conclusive, but certainly suggestive that they are a "couple."
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Trefor Heywood
I have not yet been able to view the ad as it keeps on timing out when I try to connect.
I have seen the press release in several yahoo groups to which I subscribe, however.
If true, it can only increase the already stongly existing viewpoint of many gay people that there is alienation.
However, the UCC is a Canadian body and it's appeal to people on the US side can only be limited unless they live close to the border.
Not that this would explain that some broadcasters would turn away the revenue they would gain from carrying the ad.
It's true that most churches don't have bouncers at the door but once inside there are other methods, perhaps more subtle, but equally rejecting.
But I will reserve full judgement until I can get to view the ad.
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Raf
I have no doubt that gays and lesbians would not feel welcome at many mainstream churches, although they would be allowed in. But to think that blacks and Latinos would not feel welcome at many mainstream churches stretches credibility. I've been to churches in the South. I'm sure it happens, don't get me wrong, but it's not the norm. Far from it. Gays and lesbians - totally different story. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
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Steve!
Churches have bouncers?
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mstar1
Never heard of M&A?
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Raf
News orgs are starting to pick this up:
I just heard a report on NPR that sounds like it could have been written by the UCC staff (not even an attempt to contact CBS!)
Turns out NBC has a policy against accepting religious advertising of any sort (I guess they lose out on the Mormon commercials).
According to cnn.com, "A CBS spokesman confirmed that the ad was banned, but would not comment directly about the above statement.
'It was against our policy of accepting advocacy advertising,' said the spokesman."
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markomalley
Actually, Trefor, the UCC denomination was formed in the US, as a result of a merger between the Congregational Church and Evangelical and Reformed Church denominations. You can read about it in this Wikipedia writeup.
Yes, folks, the denomination that created this advert has its roots in the same theology that created such theological luminaries such as VPW (does that make them sort of connected to TWI?)
-->
Having said that, fundamental tenents of their theology include inclusiveness and progressiveness. (So, if some of you are looking for a church, this might be someplace to consider)
And that is a shame, Trefor. Even if a church disapproves of a particular behavior pattern, they ought to welcome everybody to at least come in and learn.
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dmiller
What am I missing here???
-->
I saw the ad, and after the bouncer scenes, the next two frames (1 second each) say --
"Jesus never turned anyone away"
"Neither do we."
Then they show the photos of their congregation, with all the various ages, "minorities", etc., etc. How can this be called "non-inclusive??
The statement directly under the clip, said :
The only "inciteful" part of the ad is the bouncers, and UCC makes the distinct delineation (in those two frames), that they are definitely NOT part of the church scene that only allows well-dressed, well-groomed white folk, and no one else in to worship.
Like I say -- what did I miss? I think CBS and others would welcome this ad as a "politically correct" one, as well as a slap in the face to those like TBN -- who promote the opposite of all that CBS espouses.
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dmiller
Just a passing thought after seeing the ad, reading the UCC statement underneath it, and hearing of it's rejection -- I wonder if CBS and NBC caved in to "Main Stream" Denominations, that were obviously the ones being portrayed, by the bouncer scene.
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Knuckles
I think dmiller has a point. Any church that accepts gays will instantly become a target for the right wing religious conservatives. They will be ostracized and shunned, just like Jesus was.
;)--> The self righteousness of these religious bigots only serves to conceal their own dysfunction.
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Knuckles
Raf, Where I live, brown people are not welcome in the churches. These so-called Christian people will admit that all people are equal in God's eyes, but go on to say that races should stick to their "own kind". You can walk in any major church in this city and every face you see will be white. Any person of color that ventures in for a Sunday service will be made to feel quite uncomfortable. It's the way they prefer it and the way they keep it. A guy I know from work is an elder at his church and told me that if any brown people are seen in his neighborhood, they better have a leaf blower on their back. I have been in other parts of the country where this is not true, but in this part of the country (midwest), you can almost choke on the racism, it's everywhere. It's one of the major reasons that I do not attend any churches in this area.
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Trefor Heywood
I apologise Mark - the group I was reading at the time said United Church of Canada whereas obviously it is the United Church of Christ!
Having now been able to see the ad I thought it thought-provoking and challenging. I loved the phrase "no matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." It is not pushing a pre set agenda or making pre judgments, asking for people to fit into a particular mould.
If a network has a policy of no religious advertising, as Raf states, then there can be no claim of unfair or unequal treatment. That is certainly the policy of terrestrial TV networks over here, although about 3 or 4 years ago there was an LDS ad for its video Lamb of God. Perhaps that got through because it was advertising the video rather than the church directly. The ad campaign was of short duration and I only caught the ad once.
The bouncer scenario is a clear statement that a church should not be like an exclusive nightclub. It is a sad fact that many people do not feel welcomed or wanted and they are very used to having their lifestyles condemned and criticised by religious figures using the media.
But I did not see the ad as being particularly directed at gay people - I could not see anything in it which remotely suggested this. It came across to me as an invitation to all the "halt and the lame" who feel rejected and unwanted.
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Raf
Knuckles,
Sorry to hear that's the way things are in your community. I have no doubt there are churches right here in South Florida that are exactly the same. I doubt they are the majority, but I cannot knowingly deny they exist.
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Raf
There's still something fishy here though. CBS should have outright denied the claim in the UCC press release, but they didn't, which suggests to me they are guilty of what UCC claims.
That has nothing to do with any policy of not accepting ads for religions.
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Sudo
Knuckles,
That's not the way it is here in Memphis, Tennessee, either. All the white churches seem to be doing their best to get black folks in the doors. That goes for the conservative Baptists to the liberal Main Line denominations like Disciples Of Christ where I am a member. We get ourselves a token black and WHAM! in a year he's made a deacon and a year later he's made an elder. All so that everybody can point their fingers at their own "diversity".
The sticking point seems to be the black churches which appear to be guarding their turf. Their participation in the inter-denominational groups have noticably dropped off in the last 10 years. Heck, 30 years ago all you mainly had in those groups were the black churches, a few liberal white churches and a liberal Jewish shul or two. My how things change when things change.
-->
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def59
It is a sad truth that the most segregated hour in America is 11 a.m. Sunday morning.
Alot has to do with culture, people flock to others who look and feel like them. I have never gone to a church which has ostracized anyone. Some have been disciplined for behavior unbecoming a member, but that's about it.
The belief that gays and lesbians are not welcome at church is a misconception for the most part. All are welcome as they are initially, but God does demand some changes in behavior after salvation. So maybe that's the rub.
In Canada, pastors are not allowed the freedom to speak out against homosexuality. It's considered hate speech.
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Trefor Heywood
def:
Not wishing to go too much over old ground but just to remind you that not everyone has the same conception of what God demands as others.
The reason it is considered hate speech is precisely how it too often comes across - the against bit is too often in some kind of inflamatory language or another without comprehension and understanding. The discipline can be applied with an iron fist when people do not measure up the to rules, regulations and expectations demanded of them.
Kind of reminds me of TWI
;)-->
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excathedra
i hate church
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DaddyHoundog
well...here is new Mehiko race, gender preference...well anything goes---bald with pony tail..
I think we have many mixed race marriages.....more than most states, plenty of different kinds of sexuality...especially being so close to Trinidad Colorado.
We have racism...but I think we have an overload of Political Correctness that many will hide behind
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wyteduv58
In my area So. Ca. most churches accept anyone that wants to join. The church I go to occasionally has every race you can imagine and they all get along fine. They love each other and respect other custums Its a very large non-denomontional church with thousands of members, I don't know about the rest of the state but here in Los Angeles County thats the way it is.
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dmiller
Exactly! I couldn't agree more.
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