mr. Soques, Esq. oughta know a fair amount. I know bits and pieces, just came in on the tail end of things. Did go to a few Mill Valley meetings in spring/summer '71 where it was my pleasure to hear Jim preach... he was a captivating speaker, very polished to my 18 year old ears... :D-->
definitely helped convince me that the guy telling me all about the Bible and the class might actually be on to something...
I was in The Way East - under Jim's cohort, Steve Heefner, so I don't know all the details but I know some. Here's my story.
Jim & Steve and others were in some jesus freak movement on the west coast. Vpw read about them in Christianity Today magazine and went to visit. He invited them to come to way hq for camps, classes, free love - whatever. They accepted and took vpw's teachings and classes back to Calif and started getting lots of people involved.
Somehow, a sister of a buddy of mine got involved through them and came back to Rye, NY where she started telling her friends about it. Among them were Chris Geer, and others who've been mentioned here. As things started to heat up, there were a few pockets of way-dom in the US. The one led by Doop in CA, John Lynn was leading one in Indiana, there was one in Carolina (started I think by John Sommerville - vpw's son-in-law) Bob Moynihan was involved in that one but don't know what role he had in leadership. And of course some old fellowships around hq in Ohio.
At some point Steve Heefner came to NY to lead the Way East (don't know if he was asked or if he volunteered).
I think all these organizations were separate legal corporations from the way hq. I'm sure the way east and way west were. The people were obviously working toward the same end, but I don't know the legal relationship with Ohio, though there must have been some, because vpw was obviously the top dog.
At some point he thought these guys were getting too uppity and he came out to Calif and fired Jim Doop in a big public meeting. Don't know the details - I just heard it through Heefner. His take on it was vpw didn't like that they were using the money locally, and in some personally beneficial ways (like buying new cadilacs) I guess vpw wanted to be the only one doing that.
Shortly after that vpw came to NY to teach a live advanced class - it was in spring of 1972. At that point, he fired Heefner (also in a public meeting) and brought Bob Monynihan up from carolina to run NY. Geer was the underling to Heefner, then vpw through the transition and then to Moynihan till he (Geer) was moved to Massachusets.
Heefner left town after that and I never did hear much about him. Doop left the way as well for a while, then came back (to much fan fare) and ended up in the 5th way corps - same as I was. Hi Jim if you're reading this.
3 Cents has a good take on that. So you were in the 5th corps, hey? Leave me out of the "Jesus Freaks" and all of that. I never considered myself a "Jesus Freak". :D--> :D--> Just a freak.
If Jim D's around and has the time, his answer will be illuminating, I'm sure.
Jim E D - I bet it would interest a lot of people to know your beginnings, how you came to Jesus Christ, and what you were doing when you got hooked up with VPW, just before the "Way West" came on. If you have the time and inclination and read this. Hard to miss, y'know.
Personally I don't want to rehear Karl's books version. I think he may have gotten a little whitewash from some of his sources, but for someone reading it who has no idea at all of a lot of the events of that period, it has some of them.
My brother in law was in that whole time out in San Fran. with Jimmy D.
I got involved a bit later.
Jimmy had a way of RAISING the BAR wherever he went.
By the time he got to Maine and did the Political WOW thing, I was gone. But if any of you know about this, this was a chance to elect a US Senator.
But I know Hayes Gahag** and have talked with him since he got out. I do not want to get into 3rd party stuff...
But Jimmy, if he wants, can shed a bunch of info to those who loved God, and got involved with the early Way Ministry. He saw more than nearly anyone else.
What should he share? Whatever he wants. He has more knowledge of upper level ministry stuff in the formative years than nearly any other living human.
BUT - Jimmy was about walking with God and - spreading THAT...
Depending upon where the years have left him, and where his spirit has led him, whatever he choses to share, from whatever point of view, will be from a somewhat UNIQUE point of view since the results from his life, in fact, affected nearly all of us, in some way.
I recently read an old book about the origins of the Jesus movement in Haight Ashbury. Sonofagun but what Ted Wise, Doop & Heefner were the progenitors of the movement. From which all sorts of things branched off: Calvary Chapel in SoCal (out of which later came Vineyard), the birth of "Contemporary Christian Music", etc.
I don't understand Jim returning to the Way, honestly. 'Course, I don't understand ME coming back after I left it in '71. But I did.
i first became involved i twi when jim was in maine as i am and remember well hayes he did make it to the house of reps and did the class blessings of liberty. i don't remember to much about it now but thought it was great at the time.
i had a lot of respect for hays and rev d and his wife judy i think
I recently read an old book about the origins of the Jesus movement in Haight Ashbury. Sonofagun but what Ted Wise, Doop & Heefner were the progenitors of the movement. From which all sorts of things branched off: Calvary Chapel in SoCal (out of which later came Vineyard), the birth of "Contemporary Christian Music", etc.
Gosh, I'll bet lots of us would LOVE to read that book, TheEvan! Do you know if it is still in print?
DH, I am sure those firings were the beginning of it but it actually was a bit later in time cuz I know Del D*ncan still handled the $ in CA which was still called the Way West, I'm pretty sure, at least in 72/73. I seem to recall it being during the next twi "year" of 73/74 when the money was all centralized at waynash hq. And I definitely remember vic whining in later years that he did not wanna do it but "others"?!? twisted his arm...he just wanted to let people make mistakes and grow but "others" thought it best to be controlled from one place.
How convenient, vic...shove the decision off on "others"... typical.
Leonard was not a trinitarian. But he certainly taught Jesus was God. His conception of the Godhead was unique as far as I know, but it was most similar to that of Oneness Pentecostals.
I like Jim's Eldo caddy. Green it was and a beautiful sight to see pull into White Sulfur Springs Napa Ca for an advance with Randy Anderson and John Townsend.
I was in awe of that caddy and the preaching of the word of God by Rev J Doop.
He taught in Mill Valley at Reed School on Blithdale numerous times. Took my girl friend to the meeting with all the stand up accusations and such. That turned her off totally. Did not bother me much cause I could not see the TWI politics as a beginner just out of high school.
I ran into his ex wife Judy in central arizona last year. She was doing well at that time. I do remember the true love of God in the people I meet from Mill Valley Novato San Francisco and Alameda who came to Way West meetings. They were the original beautiful people.
But then we did not have problems like we do now that is until our friends came back sexually traumatized by VPW from HQ and we did not believe them.
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Ham
If so, I hope it is far more encompassing.. than some little movement in California, or New York..
Tom
Wow, well here’s what I see, and what I think I’m seeing. As always, God has the big picture. I’m just following the tracks the best I can. Sunesis: “…does it seem to you, less people are getting b
geisha779
Feel better? Maybe you are a bit confused....a church may MEET in a building.....but, it is a group of Christians who meet together in fellowship around the Lord. I wear jeans to church and rarely "d
Raf
Paging Karl Kahler. Greasespot Cafe paging occasional customer Karl Kahler. Please respond...
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alfakat
mr. Soques, Esq. oughta know a fair amount. I know bits and pieces, just came in on the tail end of things. Did go to a few Mill Valley meetings in spring/summer '71 where it was my pleasure to hear Jim preach... he was a captivating speaker, very polished to my 18 year old ears...
:D-->
definitely helped convince me that the guy telling me all about the Bible and the class might actually be on to something...
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excathedra
nobody could tell it like Jim Doop. i hope he does, i mean if he cares to....
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My3Cents
I was in The Way East - under Jim's cohort, Steve Heefner, so I don't know all the details but I know some. Here's my story.
Jim & Steve and others were in some jesus freak movement on the west coast. Vpw read about them in Christianity Today magazine and went to visit. He invited them to come to way hq for camps, classes, free love - whatever. They accepted and took vpw's teachings and classes back to Calif and started getting lots of people involved.
Somehow, a sister of a buddy of mine got involved through them and came back to Rye, NY where she started telling her friends about it. Among them were Chris Geer, and others who've been mentioned here. As things started to heat up, there were a few pockets of way-dom in the US. The one led by Doop in CA, John Lynn was leading one in Indiana, there was one in Carolina (started I think by John Sommerville - vpw's son-in-law) Bob Moynihan was involved in that one but don't know what role he had in leadership. And of course some old fellowships around hq in Ohio.
At some point Steve Heefner came to NY to lead the Way East (don't know if he was asked or if he volunteered).
I think all these organizations were separate legal corporations from the way hq. I'm sure the way east and way west were. The people were obviously working toward the same end, but I don't know the legal relationship with Ohio, though there must have been some, because vpw was obviously the top dog.
At some point he thought these guys were getting too uppity and he came out to Calif and fired Jim Doop in a big public meeting. Don't know the details - I just heard it through Heefner. His take on it was vpw didn't like that they were using the money locally, and in some personally beneficial ways (like buying new cadilacs) I guess vpw wanted to be the only one doing that.
Shortly after that vpw came to NY to teach a live advanced class - it was in spring of 1972. At that point, he fired Heefner (also in a public meeting) and brought Bob Monynihan up from carolina to run NY. Geer was the underling to Heefner, then vpw through the transition and then to Moynihan till he (Geer) was moved to Massachusets.
Heefner left town after that and I never did hear much about him. Doop left the way as well for a while, then came back (to much fan fare) and ended up in the 5th way corps - same as I was. Hi Jim if you're reading this.
Hope that sheds a little light on the subject.
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socks
3 Cents has a good take on that. So you were in the 5th corps, hey? Leave me out of the "Jesus Freaks" and all of that. I never considered myself a "Jesus Freak".
:D--> 
:D--> Just a freak. 
If Jim D's around and has the time, his answer will be illuminating, I'm sure.
Jim E D - I bet it would interest a lot of people to know your beginnings, how you came to Jesus Christ, and what you were doing when you got hooked up with VPW, just before the "Way West" came on. If you have the time and inclination and read this. Hard to miss, y'know.
Personally I don't want to rehear Karl's books version. I think he may have gotten a little whitewash from some of his sources, but for someone reading it who has no idea at all of a lot of the events of that period, it has some of them.
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Too Gray Now
My brother in law was in that whole time out in San Fran. with Jimmy D.
I got involved a bit later.
Jimmy had a way of RAISING the BAR wherever he went.
By the time he got to Maine and did the Political WOW thing, I was gone. But if any of you know about this, this was a chance to elect a US Senator.
But I know Hayes Gahag** and have talked with him since he got out. I do not want to get into 3rd party stuff...
But Jimmy, if he wants, can shed a bunch of info to those who loved God, and got involved with the early Way Ministry. He saw more than nearly anyone else.
What should he share? Whatever he wants. He has more knowledge of upper level ministry stuff in the formative years than nearly any other living human.
BUT - Jimmy was about walking with God and - spreading THAT...
Depending upon where the years have left him, and where his spirit has led him, whatever he choses to share, from whatever point of view, will be from a somewhat UNIQUE point of view since the results from his life, in fact, affected nearly all of us, in some way.
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Paradiseden
The real Jim Doop posted on the "John Lynn Leaves CES" thread in the Open Forum a few days ago. Maybe he will tell his story here.
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TheEvan
I recently read an old book about the origins of the Jesus movement in Haight Ashbury. Sonofagun but what Ted Wise, Doop & Heefner were the progenitors of the movement. From which all sorts of things branched off: Calvary Chapel in SoCal (out of which later came Vineyard), the birth of "Contemporary Christian Music", etc.
I don't understand Jim returning to the Way, honestly. 'Course, I don't understand ME coming back after I left it in '71. But I did.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i first became involved i twi when jim was in maine as i am and remember well hayes he did make it to the house of reps and did the class blessings of liberty. i don't remember to much about it now but thought it was great at the time.
i had a lot of respect for hays and rev d and his wife judy i think
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excathedra
i hear you, evan
i was quite shocked to find veepee "mooched off" jim's ministry calling whatever you call it and had me convinced it was the other way around
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Sunesis
I just wanted to say, I too was a "groovy" Christian of Rye with the Heefners (wonderful people) and my3cents.
My3cents was an adorable cutie!
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excathedra
just like you, another adorable cutie !
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waterbuffalo
Gosh, I'll bet lots of us would LOVE to read that book, TheEvan! Do you know if it is still in print?
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excathedra
wierwille stole the jesus movement too
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OnionEater
I have 6 copies of the book. What do you bid?
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excathedra
what's the name of it ?
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OnionEater
"House of Acts" by John MacDonald pub. 1970
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waterbuffalo
Is it out of print?
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excathedra
hmmmmm i'll give you $20 bucks plus shipping
or i'm gonna order it off the internet for 15.95
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waterbuffalo
This really is related, in a funny kind of a way, but does anyone know if BG Leonard is a trinitarian?
I just wondered because the Vineyard is and I'm just trying to piece together how or when vp got off on that subject so heavily.
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DaddyHoundog
If I rememnber right it was after all those firings that VP started brining all the abs into New Knoxville.
Anyne remember that business part of it?
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alfakat
DH, I am sure those firings were the beginning of it but it actually was a bit later in time cuz I know Del D*ncan still handled the $ in CA which was still called the Way West, I'm pretty sure, at least in 72/73. I seem to recall it being during the next twi "year" of 73/74 when the money was all centralized at waynash hq. And I definitely remember vic whining in later years that he did not wanna do it but "others"?!? twisted his arm...he just wanted to let people make mistakes and grow but "others" thought it best to be controlled from one place.
How convenient, vic...shove the decision off on "others"... typical.
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TheEvan
Leonard was not a trinitarian. But he certainly taught Jesus was God. His conception of the Godhead was unique as far as I know, but it was most similar to that of Oneness Pentecostals.
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fortunateone
I like Jim's Eldo caddy. Green it was and a beautiful sight to see pull into White Sulfur Springs Napa Ca for an advance with Randy Anderson and John Townsend.
I was in awe of that caddy and the preaching of the word of God by Rev J Doop.
He taught in Mill Valley at Reed School on Blithdale numerous times. Took my girl friend to the meeting with all the stand up accusations and such. That turned her off totally. Did not bother me much cause I could not see the TWI politics as a beginner just out of high school.
I ran into his ex wife Judy in central arizona last year. She was doing well at that time. I do remember the true love of God in the people I meet from Mill Valley Novato San Francisco and Alameda who came to Way West meetings. They were the original beautiful people.
But then we did not have problems like we do now that is until our friends came back sexually traumatized by VPW from HQ and we did not believe them.
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