Krys - this is what I meant by sweeping generalization.
quote:Originally posted by krysilis:
Men are turned on by sight. They don't even have to be thinking of "love" etc...but if there is something they see, some young thing, that is appealing they are likely to get turned on. And by "some young thing' I don't mean a child.
When men get aroused, it's not something they can control. It is an automatic physiological response to what their eyes see. Some men are much more prone to this than others, especially when young (around 18 just to stay within the "adult" framework). When men are aroused, they hve a clear visible sign that states the obvious. Furthermore, there is nothing they can do to turn this response off....it will go away when the sights change, it a short while.
Steve, I would welcome clarification from Galen....I find it repulsive for him to intimate that ANY normal adult would tolerate, much less consider child molestation if only we were simply *honest*
He said nothing about tolerating it.
He said nothing about considering it.
He said "look within yourself and ask if you are capable of it".
it is those who refuse to consider that can never hear the pain. it is the molester biggest gain in life . it is all about betrayal OF TRUST.
children run with their gut they are very deep little thinkers and not knowing to much about the ways of the world , they TRUST those who claim to love them to have ears to hear, and minds to think and love enough to protect them .
it is your choice on who to trust as always . Jesus trusted no man and said be ye as the little children .
to never consider to be so angry at the thought it could even be possible shuts some voices right down doesnt it? without any words. no child never wants to hurt anyone untill they grow up full of rage and never knowing where is it coming from . If the one who is to protect and they trust said it can NEVER BE then it isnt wrong is it? that is the CYCLE !!!
The local tv news here did a story about this just yesterday. They found 512 registered sex offenders in this county and mapped out where they all lived. Not surprisingly, the vast majority were in low income areas, but certainly not all of them.
Curious, I checked out the registry and found there were 12 listed in my zip code and three of them are on the same cul-de-sac, not too far from where I live, and two of those are women.
Men are turned on by sight. They don't even have to be thinking of "love" etc...but if there is something they see, some young thing, that is appealing they are likely to get turned on. And by "some young thing' I don't mean a child.
When men get aroused, it's not something they can control. It is an automatic physiological response to what their eyes see. Some men are much more prone to this than others, especially when young (around 18 just to stay within the "adult" framework). When men are aroused, they hve a clear visible sign that states the obvious. Furthermore, there is nothing they can do to turn this response off....it will go away when the sights change, it a short while.
(snip)krys
When I wrote this I was thinking primarily of younger men - in fact those in late teens or a bit older...but I know it can happen in older guys too.
The words here in bold refer to the sight reflex that cannot be controlled....much like our gag reflex cannot be controlled...or when you sneeze your eyes automatically close and there isnt anything you can do to stop it. I didn't mean that it couldn't be over-ridden. It can be, but it takes time and practice to learn to do this.
Maybe this clarifies it for you. You don't have to agree with me, but I should have filled in the whole picture...but I didn't see that when I wrote it.
do not be to sure of yourself it may be that not everyone puts out the pity card everytime they seek attention.
the cycle of abuse continues with the VICTIMS family woman have children that get molested why are certain families prone hmm? why is it so often a generational thing gee it happened to me and now my kids ? go figure that is the type of love that attracts YOU. I know perps chose the victims by the role the parent plays out in this dysfunction.. The victim can not see what was love within their own home as wrong . mom or dad never heard their voice now their own child will have no ears to hear the cry that no one heard , it is a learned behaviour and it is abosolutly BOTH FEMALE and male, that allow it . few want to understand why cycles repeat themselves it digs into some deep pain about your own self and those you love and the choices all have made and why. it can rip those you love and those who have loved you to shreds, unless somone admits it is how you learned love and tries real hard to STOP the pain instead of living off it like a parasite sucking blood from anywhere that will listen to your pain one more time. but never not even for your own child able to recover from why it happens.
it is a family thing just like alcohol or drug abuse the dysfunction is used as a card for the attention they never recieved as a child . Sometimes even at the expense of their own child. We love as we have been taught to love and will teach others to love in much the same way . Some who have never been heard make darn sure they can scream victim forever, even if it means making another victim it is real pain it is real illness. it is life long . guys . it is deep instilled behaviours and your right it can not be cured .
but it can be stopped. IF as Galen admits YOUR HONEST.
What a prime example of, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
You're wrong, mj. Just plain ignorantly wrong.
What you know about abuse, particularly sexual abuse, is nothing...and it shows. You've read a few magazine articles, maybe even a couple of books, definitely a website or two, and, voila!, you know what you're talking about.
But you really don't.
You can speak only of your own personal experiences...and it is telling...this stuff you talk about so big-headedly.
It is a fallacy to believe that "certain families are prone". It is dangerous to put that out here as if it were true.
Perps do NOT pick victims based on the parents.
The cycle of abuse is NOT "it happened to me so it's going to happen to my children".
I wish you'd just shut up about what you think you know and speak only of what you really know.
The pure BS you're putting out is dangerous because it leads people to think you're right.
What is the secret why are som 'groomed' for abuse and some not oh wise cool waters? how is it molesters can pick and chose the "right" families often for years of abuse hmm?
The danger is in not being honest and not facing truth
IT IS A CYCLE coolwaters a cycle repeats itself .
it is dysfunction within a family it is learned behaviour. it is how some learn to love. it isnt oh poor me loook look I got hurt it is a much deeper long lasting abiding serious emotional scar given to a child by those he loves with a pure heart and trusts. it is who you learn to trust and love deep deep inside where no voice can be spoken.
it includes child molesters and those who love them.... my wise old daughter said the other day we are trained to ignore our voice as woman in society to not ride agaisnt a man and his power.
But we do not have to be silent nor do we have to be victims forever or use another to have a voice. but somhow it is the only way some can ever be heard .
What is the secret why are som 'groomed' for abuse and some not oh wise cool waters?
Make fun of me if you want, but I'm wise enough not to come onto a public forum postulating about things of which I have no clue.
quote:how is it molesters can pick and chose the "right" families often for years of abuse hmm?
Are you speaking from experience? You must be because aside from their own immediate families, the statistics show that molesters have many victims from many different families.
quote:The danger is in not being honest and not facing truth
“It is abnormal to be 'tempted' by little children.”
Very well. I would of course agree in the limited context of pre-pubescent children. Post-pubescent children however are an entirely different matter.
Within the context of ‘children’ we are also talking about 17 year old boys and girls.
I know that when I was in my 20’s I was tempted by teenaged girls, even though it would have been a felony. Of course at that time, society was different and I walked without Christ.
“what brave and honest words. I have forty year span betwen siblings in my family. I see the change in how people speak and think about sex and children and disclosure clearly.”
Thank you.
“I talked to my son the other day and he is concerned that his little sister is so very beautiful , really kind of angry that she turns heads and is out going. I laughed and said why are you so worried he said"well it didnt matter to me untill some of my own friends started noticing ". victims of childhood sexual abuse often turn to sex as a result seeking the type of love they learned in childhood. ironic but very true.”
These trends disturb me as well.
Our foster-daughter is 11 and her ‘best-friend’ [Ashley] has told us numerous times that her life’s ambition is to have a convertible when she turns 16 so that she and her friends can drive around in the convertible, take off their tops and tease the boys to make them chase the girls.
Ashley is being raised in a single-parent home, her mother began having children as a teenager herself. The mom has never held a full-time job, has never been married, and rotates live-in boyfriends monthly.
“Honestly Galen.... a loud resounding NO! Judging from the disgusted reaction of my spouse...I would say that we both find your presumption to be sickening.
Contrary to your statement, most folks are NOT tempted sexually by children......and to make it appear as if it is normal, I find disturbing.
Do you have any documentaion to back this up, or is it meerly an assumption on your part?”
Well then I do apologize for having offended you so much.
One of our children is currently attending public High-school, when we go to any function there [recently a chorus, etc] I see the teenaged girls dressed as hookers. I also see other men around me ‘looking’.
Perhaps I am ‘mis-reading’ their body-language, but I doubt it. [the body-language of the adult men in the crowd with me, as well as the obvious body-language of the girls who truly need consider wearing more clothing].
As I stated previously I have no statistics to prove what I see. Whether filling my vehicle with gas, or whatever I am doing in public; when a young girl walks by strutting her stuff, I see the other men around me, also looking. Some are better at hiding it, others are not.
“It is no wonder to me the state has given you and your wife some of the most abused children to care for. you are indeed a protector of children and show the deepest love for all innocent ones.”
I hope their trust is well founded.
“I do not have the time to explain anything to you.”
“My first foster child was a 14-year-old girl whose father had been sexually abusing her since the age of 12 . . . . felt it perfectly logical that he should be the one to sexually initiate his girls! . . . . Her mom . . . . a classic enabler . . . . mom was buying her clothing, . . . .to lingerie from Frederick's of Hollywood.”
Yes, we see this too many times within the foster-system. An endless [seeming] cycle.
“this is sick, sick, perverted thinking on both parents' parts. Mom is no better. She sees her daughter as a competitor, not a child. She had the girl taking care of the younger kids (3, 2 girls) like a mom, fixing the meals and cleaning the house and helping with homework.”
True.
Our current foster-daughter was ‘parentified’ as well. She was responsible for raising her younger brothers. We got her when she was 9. She does not like playing with dolls as it reminds her too much of bathing, preparing meals, feeding clothing, etc, her younger siblings; as best we can tell she had done this since she was 6.
She told me this past weekend that she never ever wants to have children of her own.
I asked her about foster-children, if she thought she might one day wish to help other children.
“Now the point is, it is unnatural and out of control mentally and physically for a grown man to allow his mind to even for one millimicron of a nanosecond to go in that direction.”
Of course as you should already know from having read these posts, I agree.
But we do have another option. In the Bible we can find salvation. “Oh wrecked man that I am”, this body of death that holds me, only through Christ is there redemption.
“You can call it abuse, or adultery, or an oopsie when a 60-year-old man molests his 12-year-old daughter. It is still wrong in the eyes of God and should be in the eyes of man.”
Regardless I would still agree.
”Don't ever tell me it was okay for that creep to be attracted to her! I don't care if she stripped herself naked, threw herself on the floor in front of him, and said please!”
By all means, you should not allow anyone to say such a thing, without voicing your opinion. Though we both know that there exist many in our world who would say otherwise [you know this from within your post].
Thankyou for your civil clarification Galen, that scenario is quite a bit different than being *capable of child molestation*....imo
But if a 12 year old is found attractive, is a 10 yr old, an 8 yr old? Where do you draw the line....this is where it gets disturbing.
Girls, I have teens who do not understand that a guy might view them as they are dressing like whores, they do like to wear what the other kids wear, what is on the shelves at walmart.....does not mean they are looking for attention...
I know that as a young girl, I was absolutely naieve concerning what a guy might find provocative....I have no idea what my alure was to the child molester next door was.....does that mean I was asking for it by how I dressed or how I walked? Did it prove to him that I wanted it because I accepted the wifes invitations to visit repeatedly??
So much you make a lot of sense about...then you go right into stereotyping.
I have big issues with that because my family did not fit the stereotype. In fact, they were quite the opposite...to the outsider.
That's why nobody believed me when I told. That's why nobody believed my sister when she told. That's why nobody believed my brother when he told.
It just could not have happened in such a fine, upstanding middle class home! Not only was it a 2-parent family, but me and my sister were adopted...our parents were approved of by the state! How could we be so damned ungrateful as to make up such terrible lies?
It's dangerous to child victims from "good" homes to stereotype childhood sexual abuse as being something that happens in certain types of homes.
For some bone-chilling statistics and more information, check out this site. Another good place to look is at this site (poke around the site...it's very informative).
There is so very much more to this than a flirty teenager or a "bad" family!
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Steve!
Krys - this is what I meant by sweeping generalization.
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Steve!
He said nothing about tolerating it.
He said nothing about considering it.
He said "look within yourself and ask if you are capable of it".
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CoolWaters
If all Galen meant was what you say, Steve, then it was certainly poorly written.
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mj412
it is those who refuse to consider that can never hear the pain. it is the molester biggest gain in life . it is all about betrayal OF TRUST.
children run with their gut they are very deep little thinkers and not knowing to much about the ways of the world , they TRUST those who claim to love them to have ears to hear, and minds to think and love enough to protect them .
it is your choice on who to trust as always . Jesus trusted no man and said be ye as the little children .
to never consider to be so angry at the thought it could even be possible shuts some voices right down doesnt it? without any words. no child never wants to hurt anyone untill they grow up full of rage and never knowing where is it coming from . If the one who is to protect and they trust said it can NEVER BE then it isnt wrong is it? that is the CYCLE !!!
that is the CYCLE of abuse.
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CoolWaters
How many people participating in this thread have ever been sexually abused as a child?
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Pirate1974
The local tv news here did a story about this just yesterday. They found 512 registered sex offenders in this county and mapped out where they all lived. Not surprisingly, the vast majority were in low income areas, but certainly not all of them.
Curious, I checked out the registry and found there were 12 listed in my zip code and three of them are on the same cul-de-sac, not too far from where I live, and two of those are women.
It isn't just men you have to watch out for.
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krys
Thanks Steve. I see where I may have gone wrong!
When I wrote this I was thinking primarily of younger men - in fact those in late teens or a bit older...but I know it can happen in older guys too.
The words here in bold refer to the sight reflex that cannot be controlled....much like our gag reflex cannot be controlled...or when you sneeze your eyes automatically close and there isnt anything you can do to stop it. I didn't mean that it couldn't be over-ridden. It can be, but it takes time and practice to learn to do this.
Maybe this clarifies it for you. You don't have to agree with me, but I should have filled in the whole picture...but I didn't see that when I wrote it.
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rascal
CW, I imagine those who are repulsed by Galens opine.
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mj412
oh the mighty Im a bigger victim card once again.
do not be to sure of yourself it may be that not everyone puts out the pity card everytime they seek attention.
the cycle of abuse continues with the VICTIMS family woman have children that get molested why are certain families prone hmm? why is it so often a generational thing gee it happened to me and now my kids ? go figure that is the type of love that attracts YOU. I know perps chose the victims by the role the parent plays out in this dysfunction.. The victim can not see what was love within their own home as wrong . mom or dad never heard their voice now their own child will have no ears to hear the cry that no one heard , it is a learned behaviour and it is abosolutly BOTH FEMALE and male, that allow it . few want to understand why cycles repeat themselves it digs into some deep pain about your own self and those you love and the choices all have made and why. it can rip those you love and those who have loved you to shreds, unless somone admits it is how you learned love and tries real hard to STOP the pain instead of living off it like a parasite sucking blood from anywhere that will listen to your pain one more time. but never not even for your own child able to recover from why it happens.
it is a family thing just like alcohol or drug abuse the dysfunction is used as a card for the attention they never recieved as a child . Sometimes even at the expense of their own child. We love as we have been taught to love and will teach others to love in much the same way . Some who have never been heard make darn sure they can scream victim forever, even if it means making another victim it is real pain it is real illness. it is life long . guys . it is deep instilled behaviours and your right it can not be cured .
but it can be stopped. IF as Galen admits YOUR HONEST.
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CoolWaters
What a prime example of, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
You're wrong, mj. Just plain ignorantly wrong.
What you know about abuse, particularly sexual abuse, is nothing...and it shows. You've read a few magazine articles, maybe even a couple of books, definitely a website or two, and, voila!, you know what you're talking about.
But you really don't.
You can speak only of your own personal experiences...and it is telling...this stuff you talk about so big-headedly.
It is a fallacy to believe that "certain families are prone". It is dangerous to put that out here as if it were true.
Perps do NOT pick victims based on the parents.
The cycle of abuse is NOT "it happened to me so it's going to happen to my children".
I wish you'd just shut up about what you think you know and speak only of what you really know.
The pure BS you're putting out is dangerous because it leads people to think you're right.
In reality, you're dead wrong.
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mj412
What is the secret why are som 'groomed' for abuse and some not oh wise cool waters? how is it molesters can pick and chose the "right" families often for years of abuse hmm?
The danger is in not being honest and not facing truth
IT IS A CYCLE coolwaters a cycle repeats itself .
it is dysfunction within a family it is learned behaviour. it is how some learn to love. it isnt oh poor me loook look I got hurt it is a much deeper long lasting abiding serious emotional scar given to a child by those he loves with a pure heart and trusts. it is who you learn to trust and love deep deep inside where no voice can be spoken.
it includes child molesters and those who love them.... my wise old daughter said the other day we are trained to ignore our voice as woman in society to not ride agaisnt a man and his power.
But we do not have to be silent nor do we have to be victims forever or use another to have a voice. but somhow it is the only way some can ever be heard .
pity.
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CoolWaters
Make fun of me if you want, but I'm wise enough not to come onto a public forum postulating about things of which I have no clue.
Are you speaking from experience? You must be because aside from their own immediate families, the statistics show that molesters have many victims from many different families.
You said a mouthful there...
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Galen
Coolwater-
“It is abnormal to be 'tempted' by little children.”
Very well. I would of course agree in the limited context of pre-pubescent children. Post-pubescent children however are an entirely different matter.
Within the context of ‘children’ we are also talking about 17 year old boys and girls.
I know that when I was in my 20’s I was tempted by teenaged girls, even though it would have been a felony. Of course at that time, society was different and I walked without Christ.
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Galen
MJ-
“what brave and honest words. I have forty year span betwen siblings in my family. I see the change in how people speak and think about sex and children and disclosure clearly.”
Thank you.
“I talked to my son the other day and he is concerned that his little sister is so very beautiful , really kind of angry that she turns heads and is out going. I laughed and said why are you so worried he said"well it didnt matter to me untill some of my own friends started noticing ". victims of childhood sexual abuse often turn to sex as a result seeking the type of love they learned in childhood. ironic but very true.”
These trends disturb me as well.
Our foster-daughter is 11 and her ‘best-friend’ [Ashley] has told us numerous times that her life’s ambition is to have a convertible when she turns 16 so that she and her friends can drive around in the convertible, take off their tops and tease the boys to make them chase the girls.
Ashley is being raised in a single-parent home, her mother began having children as a teenager herself. The mom has never held a full-time job, has never been married, and rotates live-in boyfriends monthly.
.
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Galen
Rascal-
“Honestly Galen.... a loud resounding NO! Judging from the disgusted reaction of my spouse...I would say that we both find your presumption to be sickening.
Contrary to your statement, most folks are NOT tempted sexually by children......and to make it appear as if it is normal, I find disturbing.
Do you have any documentaion to back this up, or is it meerly an assumption on your part?”
Well then I do apologize for having offended you so much.
One of our children is currently attending public High-school, when we go to any function there [recently a chorus, etc] I see the teenaged girls dressed as hookers. I also see other men around me ‘looking’.
Perhaps I am ‘mis-reading’ their body-language, but I doubt it. [the body-language of the adult men in the crowd with me, as well as the obvious body-language of the girls who truly need consider wearing more clothing].
As I stated previously I have no statistics to prove what I see. Whether filling my vehicle with gas, or whatever I am doing in public; when a young girl walks by strutting her stuff, I see the other men around me, also looking. Some are better at hiding it, others are not.
This offends you, I am sorry.
.
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rascal
MJ you are a bit ch, pure and simple, throwing that *victim* crap in cw`s face.
Many of us here have first hand experience with this and all see that your premise brands you a fool as well.
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Galen
MJ-
“Galen wow Im impressed, truly impressed.”
Thank you.
“It is no wonder to me the state has given you and your wife some of the most abused children to care for. you are indeed a protector of children and show the deepest love for all innocent ones.”
I hope their trust is well founded.
“I do not have the time to explain anything to you.”
Truly
.
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Galen
Excath-
“ “To pick out one form of adultery and hold it as separate and a disease to mankind, is also wrong. “ “
“i disagree if we're talking about child molestation”
Very well
.
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Galen
Water-
“My first foster child was a 14-year-old girl whose father had been sexually abusing her since the age of 12 . . . . felt it perfectly logical that he should be the one to sexually initiate his girls! . . . . Her mom . . . . a classic enabler . . . . mom was buying her clothing, . . . .to lingerie from Frederick's of Hollywood.”
Yes, we see this too many times within the foster-system. An endless [seeming] cycle.
“this is sick, sick, perverted thinking on both parents' parts. Mom is no better. She sees her daughter as a competitor, not a child. She had the girl taking care of the younger kids (3, 2 girls) like a mom, fixing the meals and cleaning the house and helping with homework.”
True.
Our current foster-daughter was ‘parentified’ as well. She was responsible for raising her younger brothers. We got her when she was 9. She does not like playing with dolls as it reminds her too much of bathing, preparing meals, feeding clothing, etc, her younger siblings; as best we can tell she had done this since she was 6.
She told me this past weekend that she never ever wants to have children of her own.
I asked her about foster-children, if she thought she might one day wish to help other children.
“Now the point is, it is unnatural and out of control mentally and physically for a grown man to allow his mind to even for one millimicron of a nanosecond to go in that direction.”
Of course as you should already know from having read these posts, I agree.
But we do have another option. In the Bible we can find salvation. “Oh wrecked man that I am”, this body of death that holds me, only through Christ is there redemption.
“You can call it abuse, or adultery, or an oopsie when a 60-year-old man molests his 12-year-old daughter. It is still wrong in the eyes of God and should be in the eyes of man.”
Regardless I would still agree.
”Don't ever tell me it was okay for that creep to be attracted to her! I don't care if she stripped herself naked, threw herself on the floor in front of him, and said please!”
By all means, you should not allow anyone to say such a thing, without voicing your opinion. Though we both know that there exist many in our world who would say otherwise [you know this from within your post].
.
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rascal
Thankyou for your civil clarification Galen, that scenario is quite a bit different than being *capable of child molestation*....imo
But if a 12 year old is found attractive, is a 10 yr old, an 8 yr old? Where do you draw the line....this is where it gets disturbing.
Girls, I have teens who do not understand that a guy might view them as they are dressing like whores, they do like to wear what the other kids wear, what is on the shelves at walmart.....does not mean they are looking for attention...
I know that as a young girl, I was absolutely naieve concerning what a guy might find provocative....I have no idea what my alure was to the child molester next door was.....does that mean I was asking for it by how I dressed or how I walked? Did it prove to him that I wanted it because I accepted the wifes invitations to visit repeatedly??
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CoolWaters
Galen,
OK.
So much you make a lot of sense about...then you go right into stereotyping.
I have big issues with that because my family did not fit the stereotype. In fact, they were quite the opposite...to the outsider.
That's why nobody believed me when I told. That's why nobody believed my sister when she told. That's why nobody believed my brother when he told.
It just could not have happened in such a fine, upstanding middle class home! Not only was it a 2-parent family, but me and my sister were adopted...our parents were approved of by the state! How could we be so damned ungrateful as to make up such terrible lies?
It's dangerous to child victims from "good" homes to stereotype childhood sexual abuse as being something that happens in certain types of homes.
For some bone-chilling statistics and more information, check out this site. Another good place to look is at this site (poke around the site...it's very informative).
There is so very much more to this than a flirty teenager or a "bad" family!
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mj412
sorry to bust your pompous arrogant bubble Rascal but the last I checked your not the queeens voice for grease spot.
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Abigail
well I'm not the queens voice either, but I'll second.
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excathedra
well i'm the patron saint of sexual abuse
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