It seems that there are at least three different groups of people here with diverging points of views.
The first group served under Lynn in some capacity and feel that either they or others have been wronged by him. They are looking for a public debate with him and/or a public apology.
The second group has connections with CES and feels that John is still a MOG and deserves some respect.
The third group knows of John Lynn from his comedy skits and finds the whole thing, like his skits, somewhat amusing.
And the other group that know he is full of sheet. When someone comes here and says you are sitting on the sideline. What does he know about me? Notrhing. And when someone comes here and says i just want to presue my ministry you just sort of know they are full of sheet.
"The first group served under Lynn in some capacity and feel that either they or others have been wronged by him. They are looking for a public debate with him and/or a public apology."
hmm, nope never served under him. I dont think that he ever wronged me or mine.
"The second group has connections with CES and feels that John is still a MOG and deserves some respect."
I am not a CES 'partner' though I do kind of watch what they do. I have gone to a few of their functions. I never really bought into GreaseSpot's "MOG" thing. I never thought that there was any one 'Man of God' on earth, my understanding from PFAL is that we are all, each one of us men of God.
I think that Mr. Lynn deserves respect the same as everyone else, whether they are in CES, or on Greasespot Cafe, or simply a destitute vet thumbing his way down the highway.
"The third group knows of John Lynn from his comedy skits and finds the whole thing, like his skits, somewhat amusing."
Never saw any skit that he did. Were they done at R.O.A's? Or were just private things done for the benefit of the WC? Being such a newbie there were many things that I obviously missed.
I have taken shots at LSG’s errant teachings (e.g. Socinianism, Unitarianism, open theism), and once exposed a CES youth newsletter for using a pilfered logo (it appears the newsletter and its back issues are now gone from the internet).
To my knowledge, however, I have not bothered to comment on such stuff as JAL’s in/then-temporarily-out/then-in/then-maybe-out/or-unemployed-while-still-in/or-both-in-and-out-and-out-and-in soap opera.
most of the people I know who gush about how much they love me, tell the truth without getting angry at me or thinking IM less than what I should be because I do not belong to a certain group.
He has changed his I love you to God bless in the recent post tho. hmm. I guess because he has made a living off what people think and off what people say it may just be part of the program. another thing if your thinking poor John the victim where is his rather inspirational post to Grease spot about how everyone should just stop being a victim? when the shoe is on the other foot victim still works for him sometimes is that the idea?
John Lynn is a poster-child for TWI's post-POPped leadership "TWIaspora," and in that role symbolic of a greater exodus, our own.
Each of us having severed TWI's apron strings has had to choose which new path(s) to follow. In this context, John is not the subject of the thread, but the object, and as object, the catalyst for deconstructing our own feelings about post-cult spirituality and personal accountability. Post-cult spirituality and personal accountability - but I repeat myself.
If you'll skip over one individual's somewhat inflammatory posts, and the obligatory indignation they kicked up, you'll find a number of posts (my own included) which asked earnest questions.
Most Americans have never heard of John Lynn, and in that light he may resemble a "private citizen," but most ex-Ways, especially here, have known or known of him for decades, and within TWI's closed society he's led a very public life. Through CES, he's continued to market his "ministry" (which is also, by definition "public"). John has not shied away from attention, has he? The more the better.
So why is it off limits to examine the validity of choices made by a public figure? Or the implications of his personal defeats? If a marriage is celebrated as a glory to... whomever, and I've no doubt God got the "glory" (whether He wanted it or not), then a failure to ask why it failed looks like the syndrome of denial on our part.
A thinking person would have to look at JAL's list of publications and ask, "If it's as easy as pie to succeed, where did the recipe go wrong?" Was it mere human failure, or are the so-called "principles" worth a second look?
John has my sympathies, but a hell of a lot more people than him have read his books, as if they were the last word on God's Word. And what if he's wrong about it? I'm more concerned about them than him. THEY really have my sympathies.
Maybe John is working on a new title called, "Will the Real Me Ever Get Real?" Or maybe he's not, but at Greasespot, each in his or her own way, the rest of us are. Part of the process is to take a close look at the men and women lurking "behind the curtain," and at those foolish emperors who wear no clothes, and to mark, not avoid, what we see.
No, I don't particularly care what John does in his private life, and I do believe "public figures" have a right to a private life. I started the other thread because if John had, in fact, walked away from CES, I believe that would dramatically change the course of CES/STFI.
In my five years (ish) involvement with CES, I watched it evolve from a somewhat open group willing to listen to other groups, to a more inclusive, we-got-the-answers-now-again group. In other words, I believe they want to re-create the structure of TWI, sort of like, we can do it right, we learned our lessons.
I agree with Satori, people get involved in offshoots because of comfort and familiarity, and sometimes our security blanket blinds us to subtle warning signs. I'm not saying CES/STFI has gone bad, I'm just saying it merits close attention by a forum such as this where so many people have been hurt and taken advantage of in TWI.
With John Lynn having resigned from the Board of Directors, I'm wondering what kind of influence he still has in the day-to-day operations of CES/STFI, or is it pretty much MG's show now? I know MG can be very persistent when he gets an idea, and will spend months, even years to see his ideas implemented. He fought for the new name Spirit and Truth Fellowship International, mainly because it was the name of the group/fellowship he had in FL. In spite of asking for an open forum for a new name, I believe MG knew all along what he wanted CES to be renamed.
I just wonder if JAL is outside the fence, and doesn't even realize it?
John L. was my Corps C. and he had a lot of control and told people what to do. He seemed prideful and lacked humility. IMHO Ok, he is not involved with TWI any more and I believe that he should have another chance as a leader or deacon, whatever you want to call it. I have attended a CES meeting and also have seen him on an other occasion and he seems the same prideful person that I knew in TWI. I hate to see God's people put through that again.
That being said. I still care about John and what happens to him. It seems that many of those who have been in the limelight or upfront
struggle greatly with just being a regular person without a big position. I don't want John to lose his way with God or give up serving God because he can't do it in a leadership role. I'm praying that John finds peace, and his true place in the body of Christ.
Sorry John but my life is kinda full right now so if you don't mind I'll not take part in wondering or being overly concerned about what you are doing now. I know this comes as a great dissapointment to you but rest assured your life will go on just fine without me.
Maybe it is finaly realizing my life is all about what I do and say and am .
Maybe it is all about learning to love me.
Maybe it is all about knowing how much God has truly blessed my life.
It matter because John Lynn says he cares and loves and has all these emotions and concerns, YET, I know Im not the only one who feels this.. there is a line in the "friendship", isnt there?
be honest. oh the mog is coming lets have a picnic , let be special today lets take up a donation for the plane fair and put the good sheets on the bed.
and when we talk it is about hearing what HE has to say about a matter mostly.
It is NOT a real thing a real honest to God get real be yourself hoe down good time when "they show. IS it?
they are still "special".
they have the gift. and come to "serve" yet it is all of us that bow and perform for their company.
Today my house is a mess ok most days, and Im twice divorced. and sometimes my own flesh and blood will say they hate my guts even.. aah my life. I get frightened , I am worried, I am happy, I find peace within the ashes of sorrow . MY life..me.
maybe it is middle age, maybe it is because I got involved in a cult and an off shoot and have seen many many many troubles for myself and others all claiming to worship God.
God created me, my choices are a part of me.
I really do think so many want to impress them when they make their yearly calling to say hello , it is a show. and it isnt real.
I have watched and watched the hoop and parade for many, how somone who I know is depressed and unhappy will be all smiles the day one of "them" is in town.
it is a celebration of what?
Like God cant show up without them or something.
and they want it to be so and they enjoy it to be such as it is.. and they make big money from the show.
maybe it is realizing Jesus christ is always with me, and my poop is forgiven , that when they get so excited about what they think they can do for others it just seems pale and stupid and a game and pony show...
I think they need to realize what love is, and to me now it is being real having somone show up at my home without the picnic and the dish to pass and everyone eager to please,or so needing only them to minister . Come here to my house the cat fur is on the couch and I think my son may smoke some pot!!! But God bless us all within life because Jesus is Real and loves us all anyway. -
I like the bible, heck I even try hard to obey quite a bit of it.
Im not special Jesus is , God provides a great deal, Spirit and truth is a organization that does paper work on what they think the bible means.
hey that is cool, and you know what I take care of the flowers and trees in my yard and they look lovely, does God like you more? are you needed more in this cosmic family God puts together for all of us to LOVE?
do we feel more disappointment because you fight with your wife or husband?
um WHY????
I truly think John thinks he is special or that people think he is or that ya know "the minstry of those leaders must be so set apart from what life is for everyone we must FEEL differently about it.
because they are special, and they like it.
oh IM not jealous I have enough fame and fortune plenty in my own ranks and I disappoint who I can myself.
that is life. Jesus Christ sits on a throne for a reason, He alone deserves praise and worship.
Some how many think there must be a middle place between regular Gods creation who love God and do the best we can to live within His love and the life we live and "them" you know the ones the ones who REALLY serve Gods needs.
God has no need.
Man needs Jesus Christ and He truly doesnt grow bigger with the amount of traveling you do to groups of people seeking something missing in life, He doesnt give you more and more forgivness because you have read and researched books .
He doesnt cry any less when a preacher sins.
God does not have double standards or more knowledge of "them" or them of God.
I love the work they do, I hate the way they must perform life, and question why? Gods knows I had the dishes piled high in the sink before the big day marked for your arrival when we all get dressed and show up happy.
Why would I feel I must hide it from you ?
What must you hide from us. or pick and chose who can know and when?
why?
That is why I care what John Lynn does. He says stuff like "get real" with his tiny little frame and much practiced bravado of the MOG, but I wonder John when you get done with your run in the morning do your feet kind of stink with the sweat of the effort?
or do they always smell like roses and if they do not why why must YOU fix it as soon as possible? WE do not live in URGENT Times , God gives the increase of who will live for all of eternity, NOT YOUR JOB BOY!!!!!
WE live in an age of grace, and forgivness. When WHEN WHEN will we live with the honesty of that fact? Gods eyes are HUGE and many of His children have ears to hear, for thousands of years... Imagine that.
John I care so much what you do, because you do what you do for "the ministry of Gods people" who see YOU.
When when will we see Jesus Christ ? THAT has been the question of the ages.. not when the show of CES or spirit and 'Truth shows up... get off the special trip or mission from God.. my flowers are so very pretty this year.. God bless us everyone.
When we die and if the Lord tarries , the bible will still be the greastest book ever written and many will still pray to God .
That is special , and something to put on the calender.
I tell ya the truth about me they show up and I look at how people act and I can not say gee ya know to be honest , Im lonely sometimes and I only make a small salary, and I have needs I think I want and do ya want to play that fun game pictionary??? nah it is a show .... and I think I should be there to LEARN or to please God or them. I cant be me. YET God loves me. and God just loves.
People magicand a show. I have learned the magic I see in life is in truly being who I am and being honest and not the competitition the world and groups like this makes it out to be. NO special powers are given to anyone but the LORD. WE were made to love one another, and if we can not one another which means YOU and ME ( two in the one another get it!!!!) it is just not what God wants.
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Jim
It seems that there are at least three different groups of people here with diverging points of views.
The first group served under Lynn in some capacity and feel that either they or others have been wronged by him. They are looking for a public debate with him and/or a public apology.
The second group has connections with CES and feels that John is still a MOG and deserves some respect.
The third group knows of John Lynn from his comedy skits and finds the whole thing, like his skits, somewhat amusing.
I'm priviledged to be in the third group.
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Danny
And the other group that know he is full of sheet. When someone comes here and says you are sitting on the sideline. What does he know about me? Notrhing. And when someone comes here and says i just want to presue my ministry you just sort of know they are full of sheet.
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Galen
Jim:
"The first group served under Lynn in some capacity and feel that either they or others have been wronged by him. They are looking for a public debate with him and/or a public apology."
hmm, nope never served under him. I dont think that he ever wronged me or mine.
"The second group has connections with CES and feels that John is still a MOG and deserves some respect."
I am not a CES 'partner' though I do kind of watch what they do. I have gone to a few of their functions. I never really bought into GreaseSpot's "MOG" thing. I never thought that there was any one 'Man of God' on earth, my understanding from PFAL is that we are all, each one of us men of God.
I think that Mr. Lynn deserves respect the same as everyone else, whether they are in CES, or on Greasespot Cafe, or simply a destitute vet thumbing his way down the highway.
"The third group knows of John Lynn from his comedy skits and finds the whole thing, like his skits, somewhat amusing."
Never saw any skit that he did. Were they done at R.O.A's? Or were just private things done for the benefit of the WC? Being such a newbie there were many things that I obviously missed.
:-)
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Cynic
I have taken shots at LSG’s errant teachings (e.g. Socinianism, Unitarianism, open theism), and once exposed a CES youth newsletter for using a pilfered logo (it appears the newsletter and its back issues are now gone from the internet).
To my knowledge, however, I have not bothered to comment on such stuff as JAL’s in/then-temporarily-out/then-in/then-maybe-out/or-unemployed-while-still-in/or-both-in-and-out-and-out-and-in soap opera.
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mj412
most of the people I know who gush about how much they love me, tell the truth without getting angry at me or thinking IM less than what I should be because I do not belong to a certain group.
He has changed his I love you to God bless in the recent post tho. hmm. I guess because he has made a living off what people think and off what people say it may just be part of the program. another thing if your thinking poor John the victim where is his rather inspirational post to Grease spot about how everyone should just stop being a victim? when the shoe is on the other foot victim still works for him sometimes is that the idea?
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satori001
John Lynn is a poster-child for TWI's post-POPped leadership "TWIaspora," and in that role symbolic of a greater exodus, our own.
Each of us having severed TWI's apron strings has had to choose which new path(s) to follow. In this context, John is not the subject of the thread, but the object, and as object, the catalyst for deconstructing our own feelings about post-cult spirituality and personal accountability. Post-cult spirituality and personal accountability - but I repeat myself.
If you'll skip over one individual's somewhat inflammatory posts, and the obligatory indignation they kicked up, you'll find a number of posts (my own included) which asked earnest questions.
Most Americans have never heard of John Lynn, and in that light he may resemble a "private citizen," but most ex-Ways, especially here, have known or known of him for decades, and within TWI's closed society he's led a very public life. Through CES, he's continued to market his "ministry" (which is also, by definition "public"). John has not shied away from attention, has he? The more the better.
So why is it off limits to examine the validity of choices made by a public figure? Or the implications of his personal defeats? If a marriage is celebrated as a glory to... whomever, and I've no doubt God got the "glory" (whether He wanted it or not), then a failure to ask why it failed looks like the syndrome of denial on our part.
A thinking person would have to look at JAL's list of publications and ask, "If it's as easy as pie to succeed, where did the recipe go wrong?" Was it mere human failure, or are the so-called "principles" worth a second look?
John has my sympathies, but a hell of a lot more people than him have read his books, as if they were the last word on God's Word. And what if he's wrong about it? I'm more concerned about them than him. THEY really have my sympathies.
Maybe John is working on a new title called, "Will the Real Me Ever Get Real?" Or maybe he's not, but at Greasespot, each in his or her own way, the rest of us are. Part of the process is to take a close look at the men and women lurking "behind the curtain," and at those foolish emperors who wear no clothes, and to mark, not avoid, what we see.
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wwjesuslaughat
Why care?
No, I don't particularly care what John does in his private life, and I do believe "public figures" have a right to a private life. I started the other thread because if John had, in fact, walked away from CES, I believe that would dramatically change the course of CES/STFI.
In my five years (ish) involvement with CES, I watched it evolve from a somewhat open group willing to listen to other groups, to a more inclusive, we-got-the-answers-now-again group. In other words, I believe they want to re-create the structure of TWI, sort of like, we can do it right, we learned our lessons.
I agree with Satori, people get involved in offshoots because of comfort and familiarity, and sometimes our security blanket blinds us to subtle warning signs. I'm not saying CES/STFI has gone bad, I'm just saying it merits close attention by a forum such as this where so many people have been hurt and taken advantage of in TWI.
With John Lynn having resigned from the Board of Directors, I'm wondering what kind of influence he still has in the day-to-day operations of CES/STFI, or is it pretty much MG's show now? I know MG can be very persistent when he gets an idea, and will spend months, even years to see his ideas implemented. He fought for the new name Spirit and Truth Fellowship International, mainly because it was the name of the group/fellowship he had in FL. In spite of asking for an open forum for a new name, I believe MG knew all along what he wanted CES to be renamed.
I just wonder if JAL is outside the fence, and doesn't even realize it?
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gladtobeout
John L. was my Corps C. and he had a lot of control and told people what to do. He seemed prideful and lacked humility. IMHO Ok, he is not involved with TWI any more and I believe that he should have another chance as a leader or deacon, whatever you want to call it. I have attended a CES meeting and also have seen him on an other occasion and he seems the same prideful person that I knew in TWI. I hate to see God's people put through that again.
That being said. I still care about John and what happens to him. It seems that many of those who have been in the limelight or upfront
struggle greatly with just being a regular person without a big position. I don't want John to lose his way with God or give up serving God because he can't do it in a leadership role. I'm praying that John finds peace, and his true place in the body of Christ.
I also pray that he finds humility and happiness.
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WordWolf
Frankly,
I care little what he does.
I keep a general eye for announcements about the splinter groups and their leaders
and so on, but I'm hardly riveted for news on any one, nor on JAL in particular.
The only real interest I have in him is as pertains to ME. That generally means
"as pertaining GSC" or another website. THAT usually means "what has Jeff posted
somewhere with JAL's name on it, and has JAL approved this message?"
This week, it meant JAL's reply to some discussions about his personal life,
and how his only involvements with us always seem to preclude anything resembling
a civilized discussion on the board, and how he thinks of us as an unruly mob of
gossips.
Considering many of us were people he purported to lead in the past in one
capacity or another, that probably says something about what he thinks of his
CURRENT flock as well. (Or what he says when someone wanders off his pasture.)
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herbiejuan
Not me
Sorry John but my life is kinda full right now so if you don't mind I'll not take part in wondering or being overly concerned about what you are doing now. I know this comes as a great dissapointment to you but rest assured your life will go on just fine without me.
Yer Pal
Herbie
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mj412
Maybe it is middle age .
Maybe it is finaly realizing my life is all about what I do and say and am .
Maybe it is all about learning to love me.
Maybe it is all about knowing how much God has truly blessed my life.
It matter because John Lynn says he cares and loves and has all these emotions and concerns, YET, I know Im not the only one who feels this.. there is a line in the "friendship", isnt there?
be honest. oh the mog is coming lets have a picnic , let be special today lets take up a donation for the plane fair and put the good sheets on the bed.
and when we talk it is about hearing what HE has to say about a matter mostly.
It is NOT a real thing a real honest to God get real be yourself hoe down good time when "they show. IS it?
they are still "special".
they have the gift. and come to "serve" yet it is all of us that bow and perform for their company.
Today my house is a mess ok most days, and Im twice divorced. and sometimes my own flesh and blood will say they hate my guts even.. aah my life. I get frightened , I am worried, I am happy, I find peace within the ashes of sorrow . MY life..me.
maybe it is middle age, maybe it is because I got involved in a cult and an off shoot and have seen many many many troubles for myself and others all claiming to worship God.
God created me, my choices are a part of me.
I really do think so many want to impress them when they make their yearly calling to say hello , it is a show. and it isnt real.
I have watched and watched the hoop and parade for many, how somone who I know is depressed and unhappy will be all smiles the day one of "them" is in town.
it is a celebration of what?
Like God cant show up without them or something.
and they want it to be so and they enjoy it to be such as it is.. and they make big money from the show.
maybe it is realizing Jesus christ is always with me, and my poop is forgiven , that when they get so excited about what they think they can do for others it just seems pale and stupid and a game and pony show...
I think they need to realize what love is, and to me now it is being real having somone show up at my home without the picnic and the dish to pass and everyone eager to please,or so needing only them to minister . Come here to my house the cat fur is on the couch and I think my son may smoke some pot!!! But God bless us all within life because Jesus is Real and loves us all anyway. -
I like the bible, heck I even try hard to obey quite a bit of it.
Im not special Jesus is , God provides a great deal, Spirit and truth is a organization that does paper work on what they think the bible means.
hey that is cool, and you know what I take care of the flowers and trees in my yard and they look lovely, does God like you more? are you needed more in this cosmic family God puts together for all of us to LOVE?
do we feel more disappointment because you fight with your wife or husband?
um WHY????
I truly think John thinks he is special or that people think he is or that ya know "the minstry of those leaders must be so set apart from what life is for everyone we must FEEL differently about it.
because they are special, and they like it.
oh IM not jealous I have enough fame and fortune plenty in my own ranks and I disappoint who I can myself.
that is life. Jesus Christ sits on a throne for a reason, He alone deserves praise and worship.
Some how many think there must be a middle place between regular Gods creation who love God and do the best we can to live within His love and the life we live and "them" you know the ones the ones who REALLY serve Gods needs.
God has no need.
Man needs Jesus Christ and He truly doesnt grow bigger with the amount of traveling you do to groups of people seeking something missing in life, He doesnt give you more and more forgivness because you have read and researched books .
He doesnt cry any less when a preacher sins.
God does not have double standards or more knowledge of "them" or them of God.
I love the work they do, I hate the way they must perform life, and question why? Gods knows I had the dishes piled high in the sink before the big day marked for your arrival when we all get dressed and show up happy.
Why would I feel I must hide it from you ?
What must you hide from us. or pick and chose who can know and when?
why?
That is why I care what John Lynn does. He says stuff like "get real" with his tiny little frame and much practiced bravado of the MOG, but I wonder John when you get done with your run in the morning do your feet kind of stink with the sweat of the effort?
or do they always smell like roses and if they do not why why must YOU fix it as soon as possible? WE do not live in URGENT Times , God gives the increase of who will live for all of eternity, NOT YOUR JOB BOY!!!!!
WE live in an age of grace, and forgivness. When WHEN WHEN will we live with the honesty of that fact? Gods eyes are HUGE and many of His children have ears to hear, for thousands of years... Imagine that.
John I care so much what you do, because you do what you do for "the ministry of Gods people" who see YOU.
When when will we see Jesus Christ ? THAT has been the question of the ages.. not when the show of CES or spirit and 'Truth shows up... get off the special trip or mission from God.. my flowers are so very pretty this year.. God bless us everyone.
When we die and if the Lord tarries , the bible will still be the greastest book ever written and many will still pray to God .
That is special , and something to put on the calender.
I tell ya the truth about me they show up and I look at how people act and I can not say gee ya know to be honest , Im lonely sometimes and I only make a small salary, and I have needs I think I want and do ya want to play that fun game pictionary??? nah it is a show .... and I think I should be there to LEARN or to please God or them. I cant be me. YET God loves me. and God just loves.
People magicand a show. I have learned the magic I see in life is in truly being who I am and being honest and not the competitition the world and groups like this makes it out to be. NO special powers are given to anyone but the LORD. WE were made to love one another, and if we can not one another which means YOU and ME ( two in the one another get it!!!!) it is just not what God wants.
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WeWereScammed
We care because he's everybody's pal!
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Tom Strange
not me... not much anyway... I wish him well in his journey...
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WeWereScammed
Ok, but can you make me a frog?
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mj412
exactly wewerescammed.
magic ! poof !
So many God fearing christians in the world. surprise we are ALLl invited!!!
Give a victory shout !
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outofdafog
Very nicely put, mj412 - thanks for that sharing
No longer feeling like a "little peon" the way they wanted you to feel like in TWI next to "THE LEADERSHIP"
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