I attend a Methodist Church as well, but my experience is far from what you describe. My church is very prosperous, and sends out alot of missionaries to all parts of the globe, who smuggle bibles, run "underground" bible studies, bulild schools and orphanages, and such things. Needless to say, the words of God are held in much higher esteem.
Maybe it would be time to find a new church? One without such a cavalier attitude? Maybe you aren't as waybrained as you think? But are just noticing a certain........um....malaise at your church?
Just something to think about. I think that people who have risked their lives, and their careers, etc. for the faith and what they believe in, are much more interesting to "fellowship" with. :)-->
That is too bad. If I were you, I would go find another place that better suits you. I went to a lot of churches before I felt like I found "my" place.
Maggie Muggins always has an opinion, and I am Johnny Jumpup! LOL
We do have a Herman Buloko though.
In some ways it is kind of fun to say things that I know will ruffle some feathers. I haven't commented on any of the biggies yet, since we are still in Genesis. I am not sure I will. But subtle details like the time span between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 was interesting, and although I said nothing about what the fruit of the tree was, I did comment that it wasn't the original sin.
I am not sure if the wierd looks are because they think I am nuts, or if they are considering the logic of the Word.
This Tuesday we will cover Gen 12-37. See, I said they cover a lot in one week. This section includes Abraham saying Sarah was his sister, Isaac being offered for a "burnt offering", Lot offering his daughters to the homo mob, etc.
It should prove interesting due to the fact the topic overall this week is Covenant. I can't wait to bring up the covenant of salt, which is why Lot protected his "guests" so intensely.
Another thing, the moderator does not think Adam and Eve were literal. He believes they are representative of when God chose to make himself known to mankind, when it was finally ready after the millions of years of evolution.
quote: Another thing, the moderator does not think Adam and Eve were literal. He believes they are representative of when God chose to make himself known to mankind, when it was finally ready after the millions of years of evolution.
SC it just might be time to find a place that actualy believes in God.
OR
You have a great missions field right in front of you. Sometimes we miss the greatest mission field there is. The "christian church". How many people in your oun home church arn't saved.
We go to a Grace Brethren chuch that teaches the Bible. I think like methodists they probably vary somewhat from church to church.
We first attend an American Baptist church which was very similar to what you're describing. A sad experience. Loved the people, didn't like the attitudes.
Anyway, good luck. Stick to what you believe. My husband actually got to be a guest speaker at this Baptist church, and one person loved his sharing (about Christmas, the wise men, and the little drummer boy!!!!) That's one guy who was excited and wasn't before.
"Another thing, the moderator does not think Adam and Eve were literal."
Wow, and you find that idea controversial?
I've long since given up on any concept of a "God-breathed Word", but if I was still interested in Bible stuff, I'm sure a less-literal interpretation would be the ONLY way I could pursue a study.
What's so hard to accept about a lot of the stories of the O.T. being simply parabels that illustrate a "spiritual" point? Sure easier to accept than the idea of Noah's ark, what with kangaroos having to do the backstoke across the Pacific to get home, et al.
The "inerrant Bible" tenet is surely the most absurd of all of TWIs B.S., IMHO...
I'm with you on this one Geo. I have been having a great time studying the Bible from the perspective of parables illustrating spiritual points and learning a great deal as well.
SC,
You may be interested to know that most Jewish people, even the orthodox ones, do not take the entire O.T. literally, nor historically have they. I find it very interesting that Christianity stems from Judaism and yet the Jews do not take it all literally and so many Christians do.
Additionally, and I don't mean this harshly though it may come across so in print, you are likely to learn more at a Bible study group if you go into with the attitude that they might just know some things you do not and/or that some of what you are so sure about may actually be incorrect.
I took up this study with the view to shake things up in my mind. I am having trouble with 17 years of Way teaching. I am having trouble thinking in terms less strict.
But I feel that if I can't believe some of it, I can't believe any of it. I guess it is a progessive thing. I didn't take to PFAL overnight either.
"ut I feel that if I can't believe some of it, I can't believe any of it. I guess it is a progessive thing. I didn't take to PFAL overnight either"
SC,
I was the same way for a long time, all or nothing. I chose nothing for a few years because I just couldn't figure out how to do it half way. I still haven't become an official member of a church or synogogue, but I have learned to find more middle ground.
That is the beauty of being outside of TWI, you DON'T have to believe everything a church/religion teaches. You have the freedom to pick and choose what you believe is right or wrong. :)-->
The key is to remember everyone else does too. So be as respectful of their beliefs as you would want them to be of yours.
Cool, I like that saying by Dr. Phil. I don't want to come off as a know it all. At the same time, I do think that a lot of what we learned was right. I say that because truely, a lot of the questions I had before PFAL were answered during the class.
I once took a class in college on the power of persuasion. In order to lead someone from point A to point Z, you have to lead them one step at a time. I quess the "Dr" did that part well. He made the points with logical progression.
This is the first I have really picked up my Bible since we got out in Dec 2000. I am amazed at how much of that teaching is still there.
I did do through a period where I thought there was no point in trying to know God. I gave my all for 17 years and got burned. I thought, "Who can really know God's will. The Bible has been through so many changes and translations and versions, who can really get back to "THE WORD OF GOD".
Also I seem to believe that the closer we look to the Word, the more perfect it seems to get.
This class will be good to see it from a more abstract point of view. Life is a journey, and I am along for the ride. I may as well look at the scenery as I go past.
I typed this kind of fast, so sorry if I rambled and missspillled a lot of stuf. LOL
I think thaat just because --- people use the vocabulary "I think" or ""to me it means" doesn't mean that God did not work in them to show them something that inspired them directly, and consequently inspires you indirectly...possibly...if one might let that happen?..
Just a possibilitiy in my way of understanding God working in us to do and to wil etc...
quote: This class will be good to see it from a more abstract point of view. Life is a journey, and I am along for the ride. I may as well look at the scenery as I go past.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I guess I have just been airing out some of my thinking. I haven't reached any conclusions yet, but you all have injected new ideas to me.
Dmiller, I'll have to view that at work. I have been using Linux exclusively for about a month now, but I have not yet installed the shockwave module. So, I can't see it from home.
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ex10
Socketcreep
I attend a Methodist Church as well, but my experience is far from what you describe. My church is very prosperous, and sends out alot of missionaries to all parts of the globe, who smuggle bibles, run "underground" bible studies, bulild schools and orphanages, and such things. Needless to say, the words of God are held in much higher esteem.
Maybe it would be time to find a new church? One without such a cavalier attitude? Maybe you aren't as waybrained as you think? But are just noticing a certain........um....malaise at your church?
Just something to think about. I think that people who have risked their lives, and their careers, etc. for the faith and what they believe in, are much more interesting to "fellowship" with.
:)-->
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Nottawayfer
Socket,
That is too bad. If I were you, I would go find another place that better suits you. I went to a lot of churches before I felt like I found "my" place.
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SocketCreep
Maggie Muggins always has an opinion, and I am Johnny Jumpup! LOL
We do have a Herman Buloko though.
In some ways it is kind of fun to say things that I know will ruffle some feathers. I haven't commented on any of the biggies yet, since we are still in Genesis. I am not sure I will. But subtle details like the time span between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 was interesting, and although I said nothing about what the fruit of the tree was, I did comment that it wasn't the original sin.
I am not sure if the wierd looks are because they think I am nuts, or if they are considering the logic of the Word.
This Tuesday we will cover Gen 12-37. See, I said they cover a lot in one week. This section includes Abraham saying Sarah was his sister, Isaac being offered for a "burnt offering", Lot offering his daughters to the homo mob, etc.
It should prove interesting due to the fact the topic overall this week is Covenant. I can't wait to bring up the covenant of salt, which is why Lot protected his "guests" so intensely.
Another thing, the moderator does not think Adam and Eve were literal. He believes they are representative of when God chose to make himself known to mankind, when it was finally ready after the millions of years of evolution.
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dmiller
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ex70sHouston
SC it just might be time to find a place that actualy believes in God.
OR
You have a great missions field right in front of you. Sometimes we miss the greatest mission field there is. The "christian church". How many people in your oun home church arn't saved.
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Watered Garden
We go to a Grace Brethren chuch that teaches the Bible. I think like methodists they probably vary somewhat from church to church.
We first attend an American Baptist church which was very similar to what you're describing. A sad experience. Loved the people, didn't like the attitudes.
Anyway, good luck. Stick to what you believe. My husband actually got to be a guest speaker at this Baptist church, and one person loved his sharing (about Christmas, the wise men, and the little drummer boy!!!!) That's one guy who was excited and wasn't before.
WG
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George Aar
"Another thing, the moderator does not think Adam and Eve were literal."
Wow, and you find that idea controversial?
I've long since given up on any concept of a "God-breathed Word", but if I was still interested in Bible stuff, I'm sure a less-literal interpretation would be the ONLY way I could pursue a study.
What's so hard to accept about a lot of the stories of the O.T. being simply parabels that illustrate a "spiritual" point? Sure easier to accept than the idea of Noah's ark, what with kangaroos having to do the backstoke across the Pacific to get home, et al.
The "inerrant Bible" tenet is surely the most absurd of all of TWIs B.S., IMHO...
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Abigail
I'm with you on this one Geo. I have been having a great time studying the Bible from the perspective of parables illustrating spiritual points and learning a great deal as well.
SC,
You may be interested to know that most Jewish people, even the orthodox ones, do not take the entire O.T. literally, nor historically have they. I find it very interesting that Christianity stems from Judaism and yet the Jews do not take it all literally and so many Christians do.
Additionally, and I don't mean this harshly though it may come across so in print, you are likely to learn more at a Bible study group if you go into with the attitude that they might just know some things you do not and/or that some of what you are so sure about may actually be incorrect.
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CoolWaters
Pulling a Dr Phil here...
Did you go into this to learn, or did you go into this to be right?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Hey SocketCreep,
Have you considered starting your own ministry?
It's very easy ya know...
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SocketCreep
I took up this study with the view to shake things up in my mind. I am having trouble with 17 years of Way teaching. I am having trouble thinking in terms less strict.
But I feel that if I can't believe some of it, I can't believe any of it. I guess it is a progessive thing. I didn't take to PFAL overnight either.
And like I said, it is sort of fun.
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SocketCreep
Song, How 'bout TCI---The Creepers International?
I really couldn't go for all the fame and fanfare.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
SC~~~
have you considered professional counsel your expertise the bible and its influence your life?
twi was once a powerful cult.
and YOU were involved.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Hey SC, if ya ever form "The Creepers International" send me an invite the convention.
must be all kinds of things hands on pc stuff~~~
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
ps SocketCreep...
What is your interpretation of the bible?
... a teaching technique that combines factual with stimulating explanatory information ?
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Abigail
"ut I feel that if I can't believe some of it, I can't believe any of it. I guess it is a progessive thing. I didn't take to PFAL overnight either"
SC,
I was the same way for a long time, all or nothing. I chose nothing for a few years because I just couldn't figure out how to do it half way. I still haven't become an official member of a church or synogogue, but I have learned to find more middle ground.
That is the beauty of being outside of TWI, you DON'T have to believe everything a church/religion teaches. You have the freedom to pick and choose what you believe is right or wrong.
:)-->
The key is to remember everyone else does too. So be as respectful of their beliefs as you would want them to be of yours.
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CoolWaters
SC,
You are in a space that can be the most exciting thing to happen in awhile...or can be the most frightening.
It's really OK to let it all go and just question and consider different answers than what you thought were "right".
God never ever ever EVER mandated that anybody be right about him...he just asked for some lovin' for him and for others.
We were given our minds for a reason...and that reason isn't just so that our autonomic reflexes (breathing, pumping blood, etc.) can function.
Have fun and remember that "accuracy" is in the mind of the beholder.
:D-->
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SocketCreep
Cool, I like that saying by Dr. Phil. I don't want to come off as a know it all. At the same time, I do think that a lot of what we learned was right. I say that because truely, a lot of the questions I had before PFAL were answered during the class.
I once took a class in college on the power of persuasion. In order to lead someone from point A to point Z, you have to lead them one step at a time. I quess the "Dr" did that part well. He made the points with logical progression.
This is the first I have really picked up my Bible since we got out in Dec 2000. I am amazed at how much of that teaching is still there.
I did do through a period where I thought there was no point in trying to know God. I gave my all for 17 years and got burned. I thought, "Who can really know God's will. The Bible has been through so many changes and translations and versions, who can really get back to "THE WORD OF GOD".
Also I seem to believe that the closer we look to the Word, the more perfect it seems to get.
This class will be good to see it from a more abstract point of view. Life is a journey, and I am along for the ride. I may as well look at the scenery as I go past.
I typed this kind of fast, so sorry if I rambled and missspillled a lot of stuf. LOL
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DaddyHoundog
I think thaat just because --- people use the vocabulary "I think" or ""to me it means" doesn't mean that God did not work in them to show them something that inspired them directly, and consequently inspires you indirectly...possibly...if one might let that happen?..
Just a possibilitiy in my way of understanding God working in us to do and to wil etc...
Washingtonweather
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Littlehawk
Wif our spiritual upbringing we should all feel like prophets,,,,,perhaps Socket is just feeling it more than most today!
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Littlehawk
And that in my opinion is better than not feeling it all!
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Oakspear
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dmiller
If you are Just In It For The Ride, here is a card for you to enjoy as you do so.
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SocketCreep
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I guess I have just been airing out some of my thinking. I haven't reached any conclusions yet, but you all have injected new ideas to me.
Dmiller, I'll have to view that at work. I have been using Linux exclusively for about a month now, but I have not yet installed the shockwave module. So, I can't see it from home.
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