Unfortunately, dmiller, you can't get away from the guy, and he IS in a position of power -- he's your boss. Having already been a survivor of abuse, I would probably get out of the job.
You are right, yet I will not leave the job because of 4 very good reasons. Their names are Larry, Jeff, Clark, and Loren. These are 4 guys who have issues, are mentally retarded, and sometimes when times are toughest for them, I am their only friend in the world. I will NOT leave them to the devious devices of Tim (the boss). The rest of your post has great suggestions, and believe me -- I'll be looking them over.
Here is a "for instance" that happened just today. I got called on the carpet for leaving the house to buy bread. We were down to one loaf of bread, and two of my guys (Larry and Jeff), have an eating disorder, and food is what their world revolves around. 2 days previous to today, we ran out of orange juice (due to Tim's "budget decisions") -->, and Larry threw a fit, hitting himself in the head with his shoes (among other things), because he wasn't going to get his 12 ounces of juice with his breakfast.
Welcome to my world. So -- we were out of bread, I knew they would need it for the next morning, so I went and bought some. Tim -- in his "infinite" wisdom, decided I did it at the wrong time, and reamed me a new one. Told me to my face that I made a "bad judgement call", and he said so with other staff present. I will be confronting him about this in the very near future, cause I am ....ed. Every last person that is "staff" at the house I work at are most considerate of the guys that live there -- with the excepton of Tim -- the boss.
This is what I/we are up against. And oh--- btw--- we ran out of coffee tonight. I am bringing some of my own in tomorrow so these guys get what they are supposed to for each meal. Tim has his head so far up his butt, he doesn't see the light of day, and couldn't respond accordingly even if he wanted to.
We have a wonderful crew there at the Noumenon House. If Tim were gone tomorrow, there would be "rejoicing in Jerusalem". Both in the "staff" camp, as well as in the "client" camp. He is "that well" thought of. -->
quote: Dmiller, have you tried approaching your boss's boss with very specific, dated quotes of what was said to the clients? Is your workplace privately run, or is it run by a state agency?
In a word -- yes. Did it work? -- in a word, No. My boss, and his "boss" are in a "good old boy network". We are a privately run agency, and though we (staff) have tried to go through the "channels", we have run into brick walls. We just (recently) found another avenue that may prove advantageous for the four men that live at this house. Perhaps I should post this on the prayer thread, cause that is about what it is going to take to eradicate our (one and only) problem.
Thank you for your concern. The house I work at is called Noumenon. Larry, Jeff, Clark, and Loren live there. There are 10 of us (staff) who see to their needs. There is one staff member (Tim), who is blind. If you have a prayer in your pocket, pray for "sight" for Tim.
How cool that your clients have such a caring staff! I hope you all can take solace in the fact that you are all taking the high road and doing a great job for your clients, in spite of a supervisor who is a jerk. By focusing on the great job you guys can do, you won't be stuck on focusing on the job he isn't doing.
Be ready for him to take all the credit, though. -->
I did document a work situation once. I had been a gymnastics coach in a YMCA gym for 7 years, finally increasing my hours there to the point of qualifying for full-time benefits. About that same time, the head coach for the team retired, and a jerk was put in his place. He screamed at kids who were trying their best. He insulted kids. He put a kid on parallel bars without a spot -- she hit the wall on a skill and fell to the floor, breaking both arms. Told never to put kids on that bar set doing that skill alone again, he did it again. He left kids alone on the apparatus while he went out for a smoke. It was a nightmare.
I wrote up 4 or 5 different occurrences. The coaches began to neglect their own responsibilities to sit and watch me doing mine, hoping to catch me doing something wrong. The administrators suddenly found a loophole in my contract, and took away my benefits. I quit. I probably could have sued, but too much was going on in my life as it was, and my family was dependent on my income.
Would I do it over again if I had the chance? Absolutely. He was abusing children. The guy was eventually fired. (He was an alcoholic, and got himself into trouble on and off the job.) They even invited me back. But too many people that had been the cause of going after me were still in place, and I wasn't hearing any apologies or offers of reimbursement, so I never went back.
Is there an overseeing governmental agency you could contact? Maybe keep a journal of what's happening and how it impacts the lives of the guys...and then turn over a copy to the agency.
Perhaps the best way to deal with an abusive boss, is to simply confront them. Boldly look them in the eye and let them know that you are not being paid to listen to anyone's meanspirited or nasty tone. Tell them that you are happy to follow directions and to do your job properly but that you are not willing to take verbal abuse from anyone...Speak with boldness and authority and make sure you look them in the eyes when you say it. There's a chance that you will soon be looking for another job, but it's equally possible that you will gain the respect of the boss, and he will treat you differently. If he doesn't, treat you better...maybe it's time to find a new job anyway. Life is too short to put up with needless crap.
I work with men all men all of them are at least twenty years younger than me.
I did enough mommy duty with my own as a single parent. I do not care take co-workers .
let me say what you suggest is the only way it has worked for me.
scare them worse I say.
they want to get drunk and show up with no place to live sorry joe employee life is rough all over, they want to not pay their child support and lose their license it is not my problem .
I have seen and worked with plenty and I always think I am going to get in worse trouble by telling them no, but so far they have backed down it is very stressful sometimes.. but the day I am afraid I will leave. or be killed .
90% are great guys . but i do have those who want to educate me on the fact they are a male they must be more capable. the ones who have been with me awhile stand in the background and wait untill they to learn how much I give a crap about a man who thinks he is more than a man.
I lke to work with women but then I get the girls who think the guys should pick up their slack... because they are girls.. it goes both ways in my job. I tell the girls you must not discriminate yourself and most do not want the job anyway. I have a pretty one now and she is complaining to me that the guys frighten her so she has decided to tell the owner all her issues in life.. yeah he is the worse haha .he is a extreme macho homosexual haha . I say nothing.. lol .
frankly I think it comes down to loving yourself and your job and doing well enough to NOT have to take any crap anymore and be willing to KNOW I can walk with who I am ok enough and not need the approval of an *** , a paycheck but not abuse.
most know who the abusive ones tend to be and guys do not like them any better than anyone eles. I also pray alot at my job. Lord gives me strength just this week I had one tell me I disrespected him because I asked to go home early, i told him to write it down and take action against me... I lost all fear. some time ago.
I am praying for you and the situation in the group home. I agree with what cool waters said about there being a liscensing agency that should be very interested in seeing a log of what's been going on. All I can tell you is that I have found it very helpful to go to the powers that be with specifics, date and time, not generalities. There might be a better link, but have you tried googling "The ARC"? They might be of some help. If I can find more information I'll let you know. God bless you for your dedication and loyalty to your clients.
Shaz, God bless your heart for doing what you could to stand up for the kids, and thanks for your insight.
DMiller my thoughts at this point are quite etherial in form, I see it as an imbalance of ki or power or energy and that there are points (like in accupressure) that can rebalance it, not only in the relationship but also within the abuser.
Humor is a great diffuser as is changing the topic or walking off BUT these are quick fixes in nature.
Breaking the cycle of isolation and silence is a powerful balancing agent and is encourgaged by mental health professionals and journalists alike.
Confronting the perp, laying all the cards on the table and backing the well measured words with consistant actions can be another.
Fighting back, nothing will get a perp looking for another victim than one that hits back, essentially they are scared schoolyard bullies who've grown up...and if ya want to really mess with their heads, stick around and keep an eye on them LETTING them know your still there and watching
Herbie -- hey bro, sorry if I derailed your thread. :(--> I like your suggestions about the imbalance of ki (power and/or energy). That is something I know nothing about, but the little you said in your post makes a whole lot of sense. (can you "google" ki??) --> :D-->
tonto -- thanks for the prayers. They are appreciated. :)-->
CW -- yes, there is an agency that infractions can be reported to. Basically, it is called "First Response". To successfully "lodge a complaint", one must have names, dates, specifics, and NO hearsay. Documented data means everything in issues like this. And a couple of us are documenting incidents, as they happen, so as to be accurate.
Uncle Hairy -- Intimidating the intimidator would not be an easy job in our case, but there is a possibility that it could work, since he is not used to "backlash" to what he says. I am thinking confrontation (like that) would be a novel thing to him, since he hasn't experienced that for a long time.
Shaz -- Thanks!! :)--> Most staff at homes like ours DO care, and go out of their way for the clients who live there. Yes -- we do try to take the high road, and yes - he takes the credit for it. -->
quote:Fighting back, nothing will get a perp looking for another victim than one that hits back, essentially they are scared schoolyard bullies who've grown up...and if ya want to really mess with their heads, stick around and keep an eye on them LETTING them know your still there and watching
Just popping in here to tell you I thought your post on page 1.. the long one.. was FANTASTIC!!!
I copied it and sent it to a very good friend of mine who is living in a very disfunctional marriage with an abuser at the helm.
It seems to me that power and control are the only way the abuser feels good about themselves. Deep down inside they must be falling apart and the only way for them to feel good about themselves and their life is to have complete control over everyone and every situation in their lives.
It must be absolutely exhausting to live that way.
In many ways, TWI taught us to be like such in our own lives. We had to have control over everything in our lives otherwise, we were 'out' of control and God knows what could happen next if that happened.
I remember at first how difficult it was for me to let the chips fall wherever they might fall and accept whatever happened next.
Thanks Herbie for starting this thread.. great learning.
Well its ummm well not easy to explain what goes on in my head sometimes...
But in essence all abuse stems from an inner imbalance within the soul of a person. It is a symptom not the cause of a deeper problem that consumes everything it should be caring for.
The type of abuse, the extent is is perpetrated and the number of people involved depends on the luck of the draw and the resourcefullness of the abuser but whether is be an insane dictator slaughtering his people or a cult leader spitting and swearing from the main stage, it still stems from an imbalance within just one person the perp.
And I see this imbalance as being something that shouldn't be THAT difficult to repair, that just as there are emotional hot spots that can inflame there are those that can sooth or neutralize and those that start the healing process.
Emotional problems such as depression and anxiety attacks are commonly dealt with on a professional level by mental health professionals but it usually falls on a concerned other to begin the process. We've become an empowered people in that regard, able to recognise symptoms, suggest solutions AND provide support.
So too with the abuse issue we KNOW it stems from deeper issues, we KNOW it's cyclical and we KNOW it's symptoms but what we don't know is how to confront an ******* in three easy steps (sorry it's late) nor I suspect, do we really want to deal with the abuser because they can be scary people.
I'm not in anyway suggesting that a victim stay in a situation to *help* the perp, that is a trap of itself, the victim MUST remove themselves from the abuse AND start the healing process themselves.
HJ- Let me add some more of my own thoughts in response to yours
quote: And I see this imbalance as being something that shouldn't be THAT difficult to repair,
As one who has been seeking healing and growth for myself and occasionally giving feedback to friends I tend to agree that it shouldn’t be that difficult to repair. But I find that in fact for most people it is VERY difficult to repair. I think there are two primary reasons for this. The first is that many people do not seek out the help they need from professionals and friends. The second is that even when they do seek help and resources to change- they often don’t actually do what it is going to take to change or perhaps more accurately integrate the experiences, emotions etc. that they are avoiding into their lives in a balanced manner. Thus at best their growth and healing is delayed if not stifled completely.
quote: So too with the abuse issue we KNOW it stems from deeper issues, we KNOW it's cyclical and we KNOW it's symptoms but what we don't know is how to confront an ******* in three easy steps (sorry it's late) nor I suspect, do we really want to deal with the abuser because they can be scary people.
The big problem with confronting abusers and the thing that makes them so scary is that they do not recognize that their actions are abusive. They cannot see that they have deeper issues and will not allow themselves to be confronted with their existence. (The whole reason they are abusive is to avoid them)
A really good book about the extreme types of these people is:
The People of the Lie - by M. Scott Peck
One of Pecks points is that the mental health professional almost never get to help these people because they do not have a clue that they need help. Usually it is their children that do, and that the only thing that mental health professionals can do is try to help the victims and thus detect the existence of the abusers.
Yeah, how about that, a guy with an abusive personality disorder taught us that we ought to be just as controlling as he is. Hmm, sure gave him room to abuse with impunity, didn't it! I had no idea how bad Wierwille's stuff had permeated into the ranks via Craig, as I was out before Wierwille died. That is, until I married a guy who had been "in" during the TWI2 years.
Okay, Juan, now I get ya. You might be right, that there is an imbalance in the body that contributes to the abuser's problem. Stress creates physical changes in the body that make a person susceptible to disease or depression, for instance. If we could tap into that chemical/mental imbalance, we might end the abusive cycle. The biggest problem with getting to an abuser, though, is that he doesn't think he needs help. He thinks everybody else is messed up!
Dear ala, I hope you can encourage this person to get away. Are there kids? Appealing to her sense of wanting to protect them from harm may help. If she continues to try to find ways to "understand" him or "help" him, the cycle of abuse will continue, and progress. She should get some professional help in sorting out what is happening to her.
Nice, ckeer, just saw your post. Yes, I loved Peck's The People of the Lie. So interesting to read his last chapter, about the My Lai massacre, in light of what just happened in the Abu Graib prison. Same lack of culpability.
Another favorite book of mine is The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. Hers is one of the few books I've read that goes beyond defining abuse as only hitting and yelling, and the only one I've read that speaks about withholding as abusive.
From my personal experience I've traced the abuse back three generations and I imagine it goes back further than that, so in addition to the current behavior, there were generationally ingrained habits and mindsets within the family structure itself that supported and encouraged denial and abuse even among those being victimized.
In my case **** flowed downhill and I found myself dealing with the fallout of anothers insanity and it's ingrained behavior patterns in others, what made my situation so difficult was I was the only sane adult out of 7 of 'em and an atmosphere of lies and deciet existed with folks playing victim and abuser often in the same day. I withdrew my self physically from the situation but because my kids were involved I stayed in it emotionally and intellectually because as one who has been on both ends of the abuse issue I would be damned if I was gonna leave my kids to deal with this issue on their own.
In essense I forced the abuser to give up his source of power and thus (besides making an enemy) detoothed the *******. I'm working with my kids to address the issues I see. While progress has been slow at times each is realising how this has affected them and are working on the issues they can address at this time.
The main character in this showed many other symptoms of mental troubles by their risk taking gambling and drinking which went beyond common sense but may of stemmed in part by several guys just like him meeting up, becoming friends and trying to outdo each other. Birds of a feather flock together which may explain why documented reports of abuse sometimes don't get anywhere, the perps pals are occupying the offices above his.
The biggest problem with getting to an abuser, though, is that he doesn't think he needs help.
quote: To lessen some of his behaviors, try reversing roles, but without the abuse. Teach him like a mother, explaining to him what most people think is proper behavior in that situation, and OF COURSE he already knows that! (Teach him and compliment him at the same time.
I agree, reteaching seems to be the only proactive method of dealing with someone who exibits abusive traits and who IS NOT a close family member. Just assume the workplace bully may be making your life miserable but just imagine what it must be like to LIVE with that person...
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dmiller
You are right, yet I will not leave the job because of 4 very good reasons. Their names are Larry, Jeff, Clark, and Loren. These are 4 guys who have issues, are mentally retarded, and sometimes when times are toughest for them, I am their only friend in the world. I will NOT leave them to the devious devices of Tim (the boss). The rest of your post has great suggestions, and believe me -- I'll be looking them over.
Here is a "for instance" that happened just today. I got called on the carpet for leaving the house to buy bread. We were down to one loaf of bread, and two of my guys (Larry and Jeff), have an eating disorder, and food is what their world revolves around. 2 days previous to today, we ran out of orange juice (due to Tim's "budget decisions")
-->, and Larry threw a fit, hitting himself in the head with his shoes (among other things), because he wasn't going to get his 12 ounces of juice with his breakfast.
Welcome to my world. So -- we were out of bread, I knew they would need it for the next morning, so I went and bought some. Tim -- in his "infinite" wisdom, decided I did it at the wrong time, and reamed me a new one. Told me to my face that I made a "bad judgement call", and he said so with other staff present. I will be confronting him about this in the very near future, cause I am ....ed. Every last person that is "staff" at the house I work at are most considerate of the guys that live there -- with the excepton of Tim -- the boss.
This is what I/we are up against. And oh--- btw--- we ran out of coffee tonight. I am bringing some of my own in tomorrow so these guys get what they are supposed to for each meal. Tim has his head so far up his butt, he doesn't see the light of day, and couldn't respond accordingly even if he wanted to.
We have a wonderful crew there at the Noumenon House. If Tim were gone tomorrow, there would be "rejoicing in Jerusalem". Both in the "staff" camp, as well as in the "client" camp. He is "that well" thought of.
-->
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dmiller
Tonto -- you asked:
In a word -- yes. Did it work? -- in a word, No. My boss, and his "boss" are in a "good old boy network". We are a privately run agency, and though we (staff) have tried to go through the "channels", we have run into brick walls. We just (recently) found another avenue that may prove advantageous for the four men that live at this house. Perhaps I should post this on the prayer thread, cause that is about what it is going to take to eradicate our (one and only) problem.
Thank you for your concern. The house I work at is called Noumenon. Larry, Jeff, Clark, and Loren live there. There are 10 of us (staff) who see to their needs. There is one staff member (Tim), who is blind. If you have a prayer in your pocket, pray for "sight" for Tim.
Thanks!
:)-->
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shazdancer
Dear dmiller,
How cool that your clients have such a caring staff! I hope you all can take solace in the fact that you are all taking the high road and doing a great job for your clients, in spite of a supervisor who is a jerk. By focusing on the great job you guys can do, you won't be stuck on focusing on the job he isn't doing.
Be ready for him to take all the credit, though.
-->
Regards,
Shaz
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shazdancer
Dear tonto,
I did document a work situation once. I had been a gymnastics coach in a YMCA gym for 7 years, finally increasing my hours there to the point of qualifying for full-time benefits. About that same time, the head coach for the team retired, and a jerk was put in his place. He screamed at kids who were trying their best. He insulted kids. He put a kid on parallel bars without a spot -- she hit the wall on a skill and fell to the floor, breaking both arms. Told never to put kids on that bar set doing that skill alone again, he did it again. He left kids alone on the apparatus while he went out for a smoke. It was a nightmare.
I wrote up 4 or 5 different occurrences. The coaches began to neglect their own responsibilities to sit and watch me doing mine, hoping to catch me doing something wrong. The administrators suddenly found a loophole in my contract, and took away my benefits. I quit. I probably could have sued, but too much was going on in my life as it was, and my family was dependent on my income.
Would I do it over again if I had the chance? Absolutely. He was abusing children. The guy was eventually fired. (He was an alcoholic, and got himself into trouble on and off the job.) They even invited me back. But too many people that had been the cause of going after me were still in place, and I wasn't hearing any apologies or offers of reimbursement, so I never went back.
Regards,
Shaz
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CoolWaters
dmiller,
Just a thought...
Is there an overseeing governmental agency you could contact? Maybe keep a journal of what's happening and how it impacts the lives of the guys...and then turn over a copy to the agency.
Again, just a thought.
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Steve!
So why was he abnormal?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Perhaps the best way to deal with an abusive boss, is to simply confront them. Boldly look them in the eye and let them know that you are not being paid to listen to anyone's meanspirited or nasty tone. Tell them that you are happy to follow directions and to do your job properly but that you are not willing to take verbal abuse from anyone...Speak with boldness and authority and make sure you look them in the eyes when you say it. There's a chance that you will soon be looking for another job, but it's equally possible that you will gain the respect of the boss, and he will treat you differently. If he doesn't, treat you better...maybe it's time to find a new job anyway. Life is too short to put up with needless crap.
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mj412
uncle Hairy
I work with men all men all of them are at least twenty years younger than me.
I did enough mommy duty with my own as a single parent. I do not care take co-workers .
let me say what you suggest is the only way it has worked for me.
scare them worse I say.
they want to get drunk and show up with no place to live sorry joe employee life is rough all over, they want to not pay their child support and lose their license it is not my problem .
I have seen and worked with plenty and I always think I am going to get in worse trouble by telling them no, but so far they have backed down it is very stressful sometimes.. but the day I am afraid I will leave. or be killed .
90% are great guys . but i do have those who want to educate me on the fact they are a male they must be more capable. the ones who have been with me awhile stand in the background and wait untill they to learn how much I give a crap about a man who thinks he is more than a man.
I lke to work with women but then I get the girls who think the guys should pick up their slack... because they are girls.. it goes both ways in my job. I tell the girls you must not discriminate yourself and most do not want the job anyway. I have a pretty one now and she is complaining to me that the guys frighten her so she has decided to tell the owner all her issues in life.. yeah he is the worse haha .he is a extreme macho homosexual haha . I say nothing.. lol .
frankly I think it comes down to loving yourself and your job and doing well enough to NOT have to take any crap anymore and be willing to KNOW I can walk with who I am ok enough and not need the approval of an *** , a paycheck but not abuse.
most know who the abusive ones tend to be and guys do not like them any better than anyone eles. I also pray alot at my job. Lord gives me strength just this week I had one tell me I disrespected him because I asked to go home early, i told him to write it down and take action against me... I lost all fear. some time ago.
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tonto
Dmiller,
I am praying for you and the situation in the group home. I agree with what cool waters said about there being a liscensing agency that should be very interested in seeing a log of what's been going on. All I can tell you is that I have found it very helpful to go to the powers that be with specifics, date and time, not generalities. There might be a better link, but have you tried googling "The ARC"? They might be of some help. If I can find more information I'll let you know. God bless you for your dedication and loyalty to your clients.
Shaz, God bless your heart for doing what you could to stand up for the kids, and thanks for your insight.
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herbiejuan
Tonto I recently found arc
:)-->
DMiller my thoughts at this point are quite etherial in form, I see it as an imbalance of ki or power or energy and that there are points (like in accupressure) that can rebalance it, not only in the relationship but also within the abuser.
Humor is a great diffuser as is changing the topic or walking off BUT these are quick fixes in nature.
Breaking the cycle of isolation and silence is a powerful balancing agent and is encourgaged by mental health professionals and journalists alike.
Confronting the perp, laying all the cards on the table and backing the well measured words with consistant actions can be another.
Fighting back, nothing will get a perp looking for another victim than one that hits back, essentially they are scared schoolyard bullies who've grown up...and if ya want to really mess with their heads, stick around and keep an eye on them LETTING them know your still there and watching
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excathedra
my best results with bosses have been telling them that I would try to do better.....
sorry but it's true
i got a lot more results with meekness or honey or whatever the hell you call it
i guess i should say i did it from a loving heart to the best of my knowledge
i did not feel small or belittled because i knew i was doing it for a greater reason
and these partners were loyal to me to the end after that
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excathedra
on the surface i know this must sound f'd up but these bosses were so insecure that i kind of built them up and made them friends
it worked
ignore me if you like, i 'll understand
:)-->
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dmiller
Exie -- meekness and honey works too.
;)-->
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dmiller
Herbie -- hey bro, sorry if I derailed your thread.
:(--> I like your suggestions about the imbalance of ki (power and/or energy). That is something I know nothing about, but the little you said in your post makes a whole lot of sense. (can you "google" ki??) 
--> 
:D-->
tonto -- thanks for the prayers. They are appreciated.
:)-->
CW -- yes, there is an agency that infractions can be reported to. Basically, it is called "First Response". To successfully "lodge a complaint", one must have names, dates, specifics, and NO hearsay. Documented data means everything in issues like this. And a couple of us are documenting incidents, as they happen, so as to be accurate.
Uncle Hairy -- Intimidating the intimidator would not be an easy job in our case, but there is a possibility that it could work, since he is not used to "backlash" to what he says. I am thinking confrontation (like that) would be a novel thing to him, since he hasn't experienced that for a long time.
Shaz -- Thanks!!
:)--> Most staff at homes like ours DO care, and go out of their way for the clients who live there. Yes -- we do try to take the high road, and yes - he takes the credit for it. 
-->
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herbiejuan
Hi Exie
Shaz, do you think there are pressure points or does that even make sense?
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shazdancer
I dunno, HJ. Could you explain what you mean?
But I loved this...
Been there, done that, it worked!Shaz
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A la prochaine
Shaz,
Just popping in here to tell you I thought your post on page 1.. the long one.. was FANTASTIC!!!
I copied it and sent it to a very good friend of mine who is living in a very disfunctional marriage with an abuser at the helm.
It seems to me that power and control are the only way the abuser feels good about themselves. Deep down inside they must be falling apart and the only way for them to feel good about themselves and their life is to have complete control over everyone and every situation in their lives.
It must be absolutely exhausting to live that way.
In many ways, TWI taught us to be like such in our own lives. We had to have control over everything in our lives otherwise, we were 'out' of control
and God knows what could happen next if that happened.
I remember at first how difficult it was for me to let the chips fall wherever they might fall and accept whatever happened next.
Thanks Herbie for starting this thread.. great learning.
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herbiejuan
Well its ummm well not easy to explain what goes on in my head sometimes...
But in essence all abuse stems from an inner imbalance within the soul of a person. It is a symptom not the cause of a deeper problem that consumes everything it should be caring for.
The type of abuse, the extent is is perpetrated and the number of people involved depends on the luck of the draw and the resourcefullness of the abuser but whether is be an insane dictator slaughtering his people or a cult leader spitting and swearing from the main stage, it still stems from an imbalance within just one person the perp.
And I see this imbalance as being something that shouldn't be THAT difficult to repair, that just as there are emotional hot spots that can inflame there are those that can sooth or neutralize and those that start the healing process.
Emotional problems such as depression and anxiety attacks are commonly dealt with on a professional level by mental health professionals but it usually falls on a concerned other to begin the process. We've become an empowered people in that regard, able to recognise symptoms, suggest solutions AND provide support.
So too with the abuse issue we KNOW it stems from deeper issues, we KNOW it's cyclical and we KNOW it's symptoms but what we don't know is how to confront an ******* in three easy steps (sorry it's late) nor I suspect, do we really want to deal with the abuser because they can be scary people.
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herbiejuan
I'm not in anyway suggesting that a victim stay in a situation to *help* the perp, that is a trap of itself, the victim MUST remove themselves from the abuse AND start the healing process themselves.
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ckeer
HJ- Let me add some more of my own thoughts in response to yours
As one who has been seeking healing and growth for myself and occasionally giving feedback to friends I tend to agree that it shouldn’t be that difficult to repair. But I find that in fact for most people it is VERY difficult to repair. I think there are two primary reasons for this. The first is that many people do not seek out the help they need from professionals and friends. The second is that even when they do seek help and resources to change- they often don’t actually do what it is going to take to change or perhaps more accurately integrate the experiences, emotions etc. that they are avoiding into their lives in a balanced manner. Thus at best their growth and healing is delayed if not stifled completely.
The big problem with confronting abusers and the thing that makes them so scary is that they do not recognize that their actions are abusive. They cannot see that they have deeper issues and will not allow themselves to be confronted with their existence. (The whole reason they are abusive is to avoid them)
A really good book about the extreme types of these people is:
The People of the Lie - by M. Scott Peck
One of Pecks points is that the mental health professional almost never get to help these people because they do not have a clue that they need help. Usually it is their children that do, and that the only thing that mental health professionals can do is try to help the victims and thus detect the existence of the abusers.
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shazdancer
Dear ala and Juan,
Yeah, how about that, a guy with an abusive personality disorder taught us that we ought to be just as controlling as he is. Hmm, sure gave him room to abuse with impunity, didn't it! I had no idea how bad Wierwille's stuff had permeated into the ranks via Craig, as I was out before Wierwille died. That is, until I married a guy who had been "in" during the TWI2 years.
Okay, Juan, now I get ya. You might be right, that there is an imbalance in the body that contributes to the abuser's problem. Stress creates physical changes in the body that make a person susceptible to disease or depression, for instance. If we could tap into that chemical/mental imbalance, we might end the abusive cycle. The biggest problem with getting to an abuser, though, is that he doesn't think he needs help. He thinks everybody else is messed up!
Dear ala, I hope you can encourage this person to get away. Are there kids? Appealing to her sense of wanting to protect them from harm may help. If she continues to try to find ways to "understand" him or "help" him, the cycle of abuse will continue, and progress. She should get some professional help in sorting out what is happening to her.
Regards,
Shaz
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shazdancer
Nice, ckeer, just saw your post. Yes, I loved Peck's The People of the Lie. So interesting to read his last chapter, about the My Lai massacre, in light of what just happened in the Abu Graib prison. Same lack of culpability.
Another favorite book of mine is The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. Hers is one of the few books I've read that goes beyond defining abuse as only hitting and yelling, and the only one I've read that speaks about withholding as abusive.
Regards,
Shaz
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A la prochaine
Shaz,
I sent you a private topic.
Thanks for the book titles...it will certainly help.
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herbiejuan
((((((((Shaz)))))))) mucho thanks
:)-->
From my personal experience I've traced the abuse back three generations and I imagine it goes back further than that, so in addition to the current behavior, there were generationally ingrained habits and mindsets within the family structure itself that supported and encouraged denial and abuse even among those being victimized.
In my case **** flowed downhill and I found myself dealing with the fallout of anothers insanity and it's ingrained behavior patterns in others, what made my situation so difficult was I was the only sane adult out of 7 of 'em and an atmosphere of lies and deciet existed with folks playing victim and abuser often in the same day. I withdrew my self physically from the situation but because my kids were involved I stayed in it emotionally and intellectually because as one who has been on both ends of the abuse issue I would be damned if I was gonna leave my kids to deal with this issue on their own.
In essense I forced the abuser to give up his source of power and thus (besides making an enemy) detoothed the *******. I'm working with my kids to address the issues I see. While progress has been slow at times each is realising how this has affected them and are working on the issues they can address at this time.
The main character in this showed many other symptoms of mental troubles by their risk taking gambling and drinking which went beyond common sense but may of stemmed in part by several guys just like him meeting up, becoming friends and trying to outdo each other. Birds of a feather flock together which may explain why documented reports of abuse sometimes don't get anywhere, the perps pals are occupying the offices above his.
The biggest problem with getting to an abuser, though, is that he doesn't think he needs help.
I agree, reteaching seems to be the only proactive method of dealing with someone who exibits abusive traits and who IS NOT a close family member. Just assume the workplace bully may be making your life miserable but just imagine what it must be like to LIVE with that person...
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