'Citizen Kane' is a whole study by itself. I've seen it more than 30 times ( tho not as many times as I sat through PFAL) and there is always something new to learn by it's visual, story structure, characters, and the endless pieces of the puzzle.
For all of that, it doesn't resonate as emotionally as other classic movies do, at least in the latter parts, where Kane has aged. I am always moved during the interview with the aged Bernstein tho. When he reflects on how he once saw a woman getting off a boat, and says that a day hasn't gone by where he doesn't think of her, tho he saw her for only a moment.
Commenting on the fact that Kane made lot of money, he answers that'making money isn't hard to do, if all you want to do is make alot of money'.
The young Kane is compelling and exciting, very much a picture of the 25 year old Orson Welles. You really want to like this guy, and the decaying of his character is done brilliantly with a montage of Kane and his wife at the breakfast table over time.
For a movie that makes my eyes well up tho, off the top of my head I'd say Sullivan's Travels,and The Grapes of Wrath.I'll have to think about that.
That scene is one of the alltime greats. I don't care what your political persuasion, everybody wants to join in singing "Le Marseilliese" and drown out the nazi scum. Hell, I wanted to run off and join "La Resistance". Fortunately, I was about 20 years late.
You never saw it until '87 though?(!) I can't imagine how you managed to avoid it that long. I could pretty much recite the entire dialogue by that time (as well as Joey's taxicab soliloquy in "On the Waterfront", most of the good lines from "High Noon", and large portions of "Gone with the Wind" - O.K. so I'm a nerd).
I think Casablanca has got to be Bogey's best. But he did make some clunkers too. While "The Maltese Falcon", "The Caine Mutiny", and "The Harder they Fall" are all top-notch IMHO, there's plenty that fall short. "Key Largo" is just plain bad and "African Queen", though it has it's moments, the special effects are dreadful and the storyline's pretty weak. Likewise with a lot of the lesser-known "Sam Spade" movies.
Did you know that in "The Big Sleep" there's no explanation for who killed the guy that Sam finds dead in the beginning of the movie? Bogart was confused as to who had done it, asked the screenwriter (I think it was William Faulkner) and he didn't even know. A plot detail that got seriously overlooked.
Oh, and re: "Citizen Kane". Another alltime great, fer sure. My favorite aspect of the movie is the camera angles. At times the camera must have been set directly on the floor, other times hanging from the ceiling. The lighting, the brooding, "film noir" feeling to it. What a great show. Too bad Wells didn't make more of them while he was still in his prime. I guess he ....ed off one too many of the Hollywood moguls and had a really tough time doing anything for years after...
I see we ALL concur on this particular scene and since Wasway admitted it... I'll do the same.. the tears pour down my face watching this scene. So folks don't have to go back to the previous page, here's the link again.. click HERE! As Pirate said, "powerful" pretty well sums it up for me, too.
Geo.. yes, I was late seeing it but unlike Hiway29 who thinks he knew too much about the movie to properly enjoy it, I didn't know the ending when I first saw it. It was 1987 and I was a grown man.. 35 years old. Can you imagine the impact that had on me? I had recorded the movie on my fairly new gadget called a VCR and watched it with my best friend. He had never seen it either. And there for a while towards the end of the movie I was really disliking Bogart thinking him a cad. But then... ;)-->
I can also edit the clip of the movie's one truely humorous line spoken by Claude Raines. I think we all know the one... anyone interested??
sudo
P.S. Hiway29.. a comedy like Sullivan's Travels makes you teary eyed?? I'm thinking you meant another movie. Veronica Lake was some eye candy wasn't she??
It's not that I don't think casablanca is a great film. I'd seen clips from it and read about it for years, finally seeing it late at night on a portable tv, on a local channel with commercials every 10 minutes, and grainy reception.
That's what I meant by not a great first viewing.
'Sullivan's Travels' is largely a comedy, but is not very funny when they are living among the homeless, and definately not funny when he is accused of murder and is in solitary confinement in a wooden shed only big enough to stand up in. Maybe it's not a 'tear jerker' per say, but the movie has always moved me, as the 'message' is good, and it consistently surprises.
Hi! Sorry I didn't reply, was not around this week.
Sudo, it's been so long since I saw the movie, I can't remember all the details sadly. Yet it was an excellent movie....gosh I need to rent that this weekend....
I've noticed casually that Casablanca isn't as popular with women as it is with men. Could be the war background. Dealing with evil Nazis.. murdering couriers..kinda' like Darth Vader types out of Star Wars. My wife doesn't particularly care for Casablanca, 'fer instance, but she loves Steel Magnolias.
I've got part of the conversation that goes with your pic below and the links should be live if you care to click on them..
sudo
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[Ugarte gives exit visas to Rick for safe keeping]
Another when Rick replied to the Commander of the Third Reich (Vendt) when he threatened they may invade the US "There is a certain section of NY I wouldn't plan on invading." I swear it made me wish I could claim heritage of NY. :)-->
And I'd forgotten how Rick slipped those letters of transit away right before everyone unseen.
Okay so the romance line. Gosh. I mean Ilsa (Bergman) loves her husband Laszlo (Henreid) but I think she loves his cause which is also her cause and that is of a "freedom fighter." And for her to return to Laszlo when he got out of the concentration camp because she knew she was good for him. And with her he could do what he burned to do was....well, gosh! Yeah, I know there is the obvious but when you chose such a thing, even in the end she still could have turned around and ran from the direction of the plane. She still chose the love of freedom for more than one than she did her hearts love for Rick. And my goodness. Okay so I'm being way too mushy. :o-->
ok, I'm going to get a nice dvd of Casablanca, and watch it again. I'm sure I missed alot the first time around. There is so much dialogue, that maybe 1 am isn't the time to try to follow an intricate plot. It also seemed 'stagebound' and claustrophobic. I've never denied it's status, but I've also never 'gotten' it the way you all do.
Clearly, I've missed something, and am not ashamed to admit it.
Re:"....well, um....nope cause I talk to him everyday."
Next time you talk to him then, ask him why he has been making hisveryown self scarce around these parts?? I keep expecting him to chime in on Casablanca anytime now.
Glad to hear you liked the movie!! Not every good movie is everybody's cup of tea as Hiway29 attests to. I bet we're gonna' be discussing 'Rosebud' pretty soon and I'LL be the one scratching my head wondering what's the big whoop :D-->.
Here's the line Wasway knew and posted.. click HERE! An interesting tidbit is that the actor who played Maj. Strasser (Conrad Veidt) was Jewish! He and his wife had to flee Nazi Germany. No wonder he was so good.. he knew first hand the evils of the Nazis!
sudo
P.S. Hi Krys! Long time no see you down here in Nostalgia. And now to add insult to injury.. I find out Bluzeman is your favorite :(-->.
I just read the "trivia" section of the "Casablanca" entry on "The internet movie data base" and it says that Ronald Reagan never was seriously considered for the role. It was just a publicist ploy to keep his name in the news. I guess I'm not the only one to have been taken in by the ploy, cause I got my info from a 60 Minutes special.
BTW, here's a tidbit from the trivia section that I found interesting:
"In the famous scene where the "Marseillaise" is sung over the German song "Watch on the Rhine", many of the extras had real tears in their eyes; a large number of them were actual refugees from Nazi persecution in Germany and elsewhere in Europe and were overcome by the emotions the scene brought out."
Maybe that's partly why we all found the scene so moving?
Wouldn't have been devestating if Ronald Reagan had gotten the part of Rick. One thing folks seem to forget is that Ronald Reagan was good at his craft. He was a consumate actor and with a fine script he could have pulled it off IMO. Have you seen King's Row?? He's pretty dang good!
A few of my favorite clips before we leave this movie.. click HERE! and HERE! and HERE! and HERE! and HERE! and... finally HERE!!!
Ronny might have been the consummate politician, but I think he was a tad too much of a lightweight to have been a good "Rick".
He just didn't have the gravitas. He had way too much of the "squeaky clean" personna. He could play the Air Force Cadet or Eagle Scout, but not the street-wise anti-hero that Rick was.
Last couple weeks have been realy busy, so I haven't been able to keep up here much. Loved Casablanca though. Definetly high on my top ten list! :)-->
KRYS! Where you been? Good to see you here again! I replied to the private topic...if it doesn't work right, let me know! And come around here and play with us again!
Looks like I'm in the definite minority thinking Ronald Reagan was a prety good actor. Just lookit what Geo thought.. "Ronny might have been the consummate politician, but I think he was a tad too much of a lightweight to have been a good "Rick"." ....
Could be I'm all wrong about 'ole Ronnie. Just as long as people have actually SEEN the body of his acting work and choose to disagree with me..I won't quibble. It was a lot more than "Bedtime For Bonzo", though. You have to see the work. It's like Andy Griffith.. If all you had seen was him as sheriff Taylor in Mayberry or as Matlock you wouldn't know that he could play a really really bad guy which he did so well. Same thing with Ronald Reagan, IMO.
Does he look convincing as a bad guy in this pic??
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hiway29
'Citizen Kane' is a whole study by itself. I've seen it more than 30 times ( tho not as many times as I sat through PFAL) and there is always something new to learn by it's visual, story structure, characters, and the endless pieces of the puzzle.
For all of that, it doesn't resonate as emotionally as other classic movies do, at least in the latter parts, where Kane has aged. I am always moved during the interview with the aged Bernstein tho. When he reflects on how he once saw a woman getting off a boat, and says that a day hasn't gone by where he doesn't think of her, tho he saw her for only a moment.
Commenting on the fact that Kane made lot of money, he answers that'making money isn't hard to do, if all you want to do is make alot of money'.
The young Kane is compelling and exciting, very much a picture of the 25 year old Orson Welles. You really want to like this guy, and the decaying of his character is done brilliantly with a montage of Kane and his wife at the breakfast table over time.
For a movie that makes my eyes well up tho, off the top of my head I'd say Sullivan's Travels,and The Grapes of Wrath.I'll have to think about that.
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George Aar
Sudo,
That scene is one of the alltime greats. I don't care what your political persuasion, everybody wants to join in singing "Le Marseilliese" and drown out the nazi scum. Hell, I wanted to run off and join "La Resistance". Fortunately, I was about 20 years late.
You never saw it until '87 though?(!) I can't imagine how you managed to avoid it that long. I could pretty much recite the entire dialogue by that time (as well as Joey's taxicab soliloquy in "On the Waterfront", most of the good lines from "High Noon", and large portions of "Gone with the Wind" - O.K. so I'm a nerd).
I think Casablanca has got to be Bogey's best. But he did make some clunkers too. While "The Maltese Falcon", "The Caine Mutiny", and "The Harder they Fall" are all top-notch IMHO, there's plenty that fall short. "Key Largo" is just plain bad and "African Queen", though it has it's moments, the special effects are dreadful and the storyline's pretty weak. Likewise with a lot of the lesser-known "Sam Spade" movies.
Did you know that in "The Big Sleep" there's no explanation for who killed the guy that Sam finds dead in the beginning of the movie? Bogart was confused as to who had done it, asked the screenwriter (I think it was William Faulkner) and he didn't even know. A plot detail that got seriously overlooked.
Oh, and re: "Citizen Kane". Another alltime great, fer sure. My favorite aspect of the movie is the camera angles. At times the camera must have been set directly on the floor, other times hanging from the ceiling. The lighting, the brooding, "film noir" feeling to it. What a great show. Too bad Wells didn't make more of them while he was still in his prime. I guess he ....ed off one too many of the Hollywood moguls and had a really tough time doing anything for years after...
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Sudo
Geo, Wasway and Pirate..
I see we ALL concur on this particular scene and since Wasway admitted it... I'll do the same.. the tears pour down my face watching this scene. So folks don't have to go back to the previous page, here's the link again.. click HERE! As Pirate said, "powerful" pretty well sums it up for me, too.
Geo.. yes, I was late seeing it but unlike Hiway29 who thinks he knew too much about the movie to properly enjoy it, I didn't know the ending when I first saw it. It was 1987 and I was a grown man.. 35 years old. Can you imagine the impact that had on me? I had recorded the movie on my fairly new gadget called a VCR and watched it with my best friend. He had never seen it either. And there for a while towards the end of the movie I was really disliking Bogart thinking him a cad. But then...
;)-->
I can also edit the clip of the movie's one truely humorous line spoken by Claude Raines. I think we all know the one... anyone interested??
P.S. Hiway29.. a comedy like Sullivan's Travels makes you teary eyed?? I'm thinking you meant another movie. Veronica Lake was some eye candy wasn't she??
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hiway29
Sudo-
It's not that I don't think casablanca is a great film. I'd seen clips from it and read about it for years, finally seeing it late at night on a portable tv, on a local channel with commercials every 10 minutes, and grainy reception.
That's what I meant by not a great first viewing.
'Sullivan's Travels' is largely a comedy, but is not very funny when they are living among the homeless, and definately not funny when he is accused of murder and is in solitary confinement in a wooden shed only big enough to stand up in. Maybe it's not a 'tear jerker' per say, but the movie has always moved me, as the 'message' is good, and it consistently surprises.
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Steve!
Well, call me deprived, but I've never seen Casablanca, although I *did* guess that that was what that clip was from.
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ChattyKathy
Hi! Sorry I didn't reply, was not around this week.
Sudo, it's been so long since I saw the movie, I can't remember all the details sadly. Yet it was an excellent movie....gosh I need to rent that this weekend....
Oh, btw....
....enjoy!
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Pirate1974
Viva la France.
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wasway
Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
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Sudo
Kathy,
I've noticed casually that Casablanca isn't as popular with women as it is with men. Could be the war background. Dealing with evil Nazis.. murdering couriers..kinda' like Darth Vader types out of Star Wars. My wife doesn't particularly care for Casablanca, 'fer instance, but she loves Steel Magnolias.
I've got part of the conversation that goes with your pic below and the links should be live if you care to click on them..
sudo
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[Ugarte gives exit visas to Rick for safe keeping]
Ugarte: Rick, I hope
you're more impressed with me, now? Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll share my
luck with your roulette wheel.
[Starts to walk away]
Rick: [stands up.
Ugarte stops] Just a moment. I heard a rumor those two German couriers were
carrying letter of transit.
Ugarte: Huh? Oh, huh,
I heard that rumor too. Poor devils.
Rick: You're right,
Ugarte. I am a little more impressed with you.
[Rick exits casino]
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ChattyKathy
I just watched Casablanca. Dang! What a movie. I knew I loved it when last I saw but that was too many years ago.
One of the early lines by Renault (Rains) to Rick (Bogart) in Rick's Café Americana about Rick not throwing women away like that because one day they may become scarce was a hoot (even though to see that line and not know the movie pales).
Another when Rick replied to the Commander of the Third Reich (Vendt) when he threatened they may invade the US "There is a certain section of NY I wouldn't plan on invading." I swear it made me wish I could claim heritage of NY.
:)-->
But the storyline is great. With Rick's Café to me like a way-station and the diversity of patrons, itself enjoyable to watch. But the scene when the Nazi's were singing and celebrating their barfola and the room began to stand and sing Viva la France. What a scene! I completely understand stated sentiments. It makes you want to stand up and go YEAH!
:)-->
And I'd forgotten how Rick slipped those letters of transit away right before everyone unseen.
Okay so the romance line. Gosh. I mean Ilsa (Bergman) loves her husband Laszlo (Henreid) but I think she loves his cause which is also her cause and that is of a "freedom fighter." And for her to return to Laszlo when he got out of the concentration camp because she knew she was good for him. And with her he could do what he burned to do was....well, gosh! Yeah, I know there is the obvious but when you chose such a thing, even in the end she still could have turned around and ran from the direction of the plane. She still chose the love of freedom for more than one than she did her hearts love for Rick. And my goodness. Okay so I'm being way too mushy.
:o-->
What an excellent movie! Sudo, thank you!
;)-->
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hiway29
ok, I'm going to get a nice dvd of Casablanca, and watch it again. I'm sure I missed alot the first time around. There is so much dialogue, that maybe 1 am isn't the time to try to follow an intricate plot. It also seemed 'stagebound' and claustrophobic. I've never denied it's status, but I've also never 'gotten' it the way you all do.
Clearly, I've missed something, and am not ashamed to admit it.
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krys
Bluzeman has a private message.
Aren't the rest of you just a little jealous?
krys
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ChattyKathy
....well, um....nope cause I talk to him everyday....
:P-->
hiya krys....
:)-->
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Sudo
Kathy,
Re:"....well, um....nope cause I talk to him everyday."
Next time you talk to him then, ask him why he has been making hisveryown self scarce around these parts?? I keep expecting him to chime in on Casablanca anytime now.
Glad to hear you liked the movie!! Not every good movie is everybody's cup of tea as Hiway29 attests to. I bet we're gonna' be discussing 'Rosebud' pretty soon and I'LL be the one scratching my head wondering what's the big whoop
:D-->.
Here's the line Wasway knew and posted.. click HERE! An interesting tidbit is that the actor who played Maj. Strasser (Conrad Veidt) was Jewish! He and his wife had to flee Nazi Germany. No wonder he was so good.. he knew first hand the evils of the Nazis!
P.S. Hi Krys! Long time no see you down here in Nostalgia. And now to add insult to injury.. I find out Bluzeman is your favorite
:(-->.
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ChattyKathy
Sudo, headed out now but I'll check your link in a bit.
And Rick has been busy, but I think he still likes you.....
:D--> 
:D-->
Bye for now!
:)-->
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George Aar
Just a quick aside,
but do you know they had originally planned to have Ronald Reagan play the part of "Rick"? (!)
Somehow I can't imagine anybody still talking about the show had that happened. I mean, I liked Ronny and all, but compared to Bogey?
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George Aar
Well hush my mouth wide open.
I just read the "trivia" section of the "Casablanca" entry on "The internet movie data base" and it says that Ronald Reagan never was seriously considered for the role. It was just a publicist ploy to keep his name in the news. I guess I'm not the only one to have been taken in by the ploy, cause I got my info from a 60 Minutes special.
BTW, here's a tidbit from the trivia section that I found interesting:
"In the famous scene where the "Marseillaise" is sung over the German song "Watch on the Rhine", many of the extras had real tears in their eyes; a large number of them were actual refugees from Nazi persecution in Germany and elsewhere in Europe and were overcome by the emotions the scene brought out."
Maybe that's partly why we all found the scene so moving?
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Sudo
Geo,
Wouldn't have been devestating if Ronald Reagan had gotten the part of Rick. One thing folks seem to forget is that Ronald Reagan was good at his craft. He was a consumate actor and with a fine script he could have pulled it off IMO. Have you seen King's Row?? He's pretty dang good!
A few of my favorite clips before we leave this movie.. click HERE! and HERE! and HERE! and HERE! and HERE! and... finally
HERE!!!
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Pirate1974
I don't know, Sudo. Somehow I think if Reagan had played Rick we wouldn't still be talking about this movie today.
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George Aar
No, Sudo, I can't agree with you on that one.
Ronny might have been the consummate politician, but I think he was a tad too much of a lightweight to have been a good "Rick".
He just didn't have the gravitas. He had way too much of the "squeaky clean" personna. He could play the Air Force Cadet or Eagle Scout, but not the street-wise anti-hero that Rick was.
IMHO anyway...
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ChattyKathy
Sudo, I'm with Pirate and Geo on this one. I can't imagine the role of Rick being played by Ronny.
Also what of Sam! I swear Frodo had a Sam and Rick had a Sam. Sam's seem to be pretty kewl best friends.
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Bluzeman
Hey, Sudo (and everyone else)
Last couple weeks have been realy busy, so I haven't been able to keep up here much. Loved Casablanca though. Definetly high on my top ten list!
:)-->
KRYS! Where you been? Good to see you here again! I replied to the private topic...if it doesn't work right, let me know! And come around here and play with us again!
Rick
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Sudo
Hey guys!
Looks like I'm in the definite minority thinking Ronald Reagan was a prety good actor. Just lookit what Geo thought.. "Ronny might have been the consummate politician, but I think he was a tad too much of a lightweight to have been a good "Rick"." ....
Could be I'm all wrong about 'ole Ronnie. Just as long as people have actually SEEN the body of his acting work and choose to disagree with me..I won't quibble. It was a lot more than "Bedtime For Bonzo", though. You have to see the work. It's like Andy Griffith.. If all you had seen was him as sheriff Taylor in Mayberry or as Matlock you wouldn't know that he could play a really really bad guy which he did so well. Same thing with Ronald Reagan, IMO.
Does he look convincing as a bad guy in this pic??
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ChattyKathy
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