Hi. I agree with the above posters. Many times when we talk things out, we discover our spouse doesn't think the way we thought they thought after they express their thoughts and feelings. Much can be hidden from those we love when we hold things in. For example, she may be upset about something that you don't know about because of a false impression she may have about how you think about issue. Maybe it's the other way around. These are just possibilities that come out in counseling sometimes.
Also, I disagree that Jesus has put us under the law in this or any other area. If you're feeling like you are, maybe there is another voice from twi days still in your head. It takes time to distinguish between them sometimes. But, if you're feeling like you have no options and you're boxed in, chances are that's coming from some left-over stuff from them.
About counseling: Sometimes, you don't need a weatherman to tell you it's raining. If it works for you, great. If you're not really getting anywhere with it, don't continue to throw money down a rat hole.
Does your wife know you feel this way? If you talk to her and tell her how her actions make you feel, will she listen or show insensitivity to your feelings?
Have either of you learned to speak the other's love language? I know it sounds silly, but it really does help if you know your spouse's love language and how to speak it and vice versa. There are things that show certain people how you love them.
For instance, my husband could tell me all day long that he loves me and he could buy me presents every day, but those two things are not my love language. I need kisses, hugs, and physical affection. My husband, on the other hand, needs to be told that I love him. For some people it is doing chores like washing their car, buying gifts, or actually telling someone how wonderful they are.
I am a true believer in this although I know it is extremely hard to start over when you've made so many bad habits with a person. But it's worth a shot if you want to honor your marriage. "They" have said that communication is the key to a successful marriage. I think that communication isn't always talking. It can be your actions.
In all of this I got no help in cooking or cleaning. The most I got was a shus so she could hear the TV. Yes she was trying to do some female bonding. BUT
O well I'll quit writing before I blow up.
Forgive my typos and spelling. MY MIND AND FINGERS ARNT WORKING
You've got to wean yourself off being the martyr-cook, busting your arse for everyone. Here's some ideas:
1.) Frozen pizzas
2.) paper plates
3.) more frozen pizzas
4.) more paper plates.
Of course, you can really get fancy if you have a microwave, and just stock up your freezer with TV dinners.
Perhaps your wife and family will get sick of frozen pizzas, enough to get off the couch and explore the joys of cooking again. :)-->
If you answer these questions, it would help me to understand the situation better:
1. Do you both work full-time jobs?
2. Who normally does most of the cooking/cleaning/grocery shopping/handling the bills (getting them paid on time)/laundry/childcare, etc?
I mean, does she sit at home all day watching soap operas, you work all day, then you always do all of the housework too? If so, I'd be really po'd too. Or, does she work a full-time job, usually does all of #2 by herself, but you did it all this time?
Oaks... this is one of the few times I really disagree with you...
Your post makes it sound like he's just bee-atching behind her back. I don't get that impression.The guy is looking for help... trying to figure out what to do... using a multitude of counsellors to gain wisdom. It mostly sounds like he would like to SAVE his marriage, and most of the advice he's getting here is "talk to HER" and "get professional input".
Now, if he comes back time and again with the same gripe and no effort on his part, that's another thing. But give the guy some credit at least to start.
Let me wade back in before this goes completly off the chart.
The first thing I have to say is that I believe that God brought us together. I take the for better or worse sriously. I was praised by many by standing by her when she went through cancer. That was then and now is now.
So let me ask you. Do you believe in God and what is said in the Bible. Jesus taught that divorce is of man and not intended by God. I believe that.
I live in a small town and the wife does not want couceling because everyone will know in a short time. Her way of handling problems is to retreat from them and do somthing that is fun or diferant. She teachs nursing at a small university and has designed more charts and other things than you can imagine. She has gotten credit for reviewing a text book.
Me, I own a small air conditioning company.
Three sons. #1 is back home for the second time and is 22. Has a good job (makes more money than mom). #2 son is 19 and in colage studing to go into the ministry. #3 son is 13 and in the 7th grade.
Would a breakup affect them. Hell yes. #1 would not mind. He has seen through his mom for years. #2 see's it but doesnt want to. We had an argument while in Mexico lasat year on a mission trip. #2 saw what I put up with and was devistated. He would have problems. #3 would be a basket case.
So how important are your kids? I'd kill for mine.
I have prayed about this more than you can imagine and what I get is to stay. Thats God's answer.
So all of you here is my question? How much sufferring will you take if you feel its what God wants. Or are you weak like I am at times and just want to walk.
If you think I'm under the law in this thats fine. Thats not how I see it. My wife knows of this forum and I have sent her some of the comical stuff. But this is generic and anonimus enough that I don't worry about her not saying her side. Her side is that she doesnt like to cook, can't handle the emotions of counciling, and thinks that I should just be happy.
For all you chat room sex fiends the sex stopped two years ago. Hell we havn't had sex five times in the last 6 years. No sex on the 25th aniversery.
Think bad of me but this is my way of releasing frustration. Its better than doing other things.
And if you think this is my dirty laundry what is all this stuff we talk about. Its the dirt we left behind.
The point is, you're not happy, are you? If she's not meeting your needs in bed, and treats sex like a chore, she's already broken her "due benevolence" commitment to you. That's not a license to go elsewhere before you're divorced, but if one party breaks the contract first, the other is not bound.
If you're really worried about son #3, you might try getting him some counseling. Screw what the neighbors think--they'll know for certain as soon as you get divorced anyway. They'll either know your marriage is in trouble and you're trying to fix it, or your marriage is over, period.
If your wife will not change, and you don't want to stay with her if she won't, talk to an attorney.
You're going to get screwed over though, because she'll probably get half the business you own. But how much is the rest of your life worth?
Marriage counseling is for people who both want to make their marriage better. You are not sure what you want to do, so marriage counseling won't help, even if your wife would go.
I'd suggest you go see a counselor on your own to help you figure out what you want. Remember you can't control another person - just yourself.
I believe a divorce can be bad for kids. But I also believe a bad marriage can be as bad and sometimes worse. If you decide to divorce, you can still be a good parent. I'm able to be a better parent since my divorce.
FYUI - I don't believe in the bible and don't care what Jesus said about it. That may color your opinion of my advice. I think marriage has historically been primarily an economic institution. That's one reason it was important to stick it out no matter what.
In our times it still is an economic necessity for many people but for many people it is not. Many people's idea of being poor is being down to one car and no cable TV. Hardly life threatening.
I think our society is working on new ways to understand what marriage means when it's not economically vital to survival. I think that will take a couple generations (and still won't apply to everyone).
Just my two cents and one for inflation. Best wishes.
I struggle with contributing a word, as I thankfully have never suffered a divorce; I have no idea what it's like, save for being a kid of divorce.
What if you, yourself, seek out counseling? Another option that I see effective is for each to get the perspective of the opposite sex. You speak to a woman about the female side of marriage, answer some tough questions, ask some of your own.
A woman that you trust very much.
I can contribute a word or two about being married, as I did experience that. I stayed in it because of the vows and I have no regrets therein. But I also loved the man enough to stick it out for the vows.
Not to suggest that you don't love your wife, or she you. You said you don't like her; I think we can all relate to that.
It's so easy to get 'settled' in a marriage, take the other for granted, assume it'll always be at least the way it is.
Consider, also, other things in life. Health issues that effect other areas of our life, for instance. Women take on alot of things within our bodies about this time in your wife's life that can throw the most wonderful of gals so far off her axis; it's unbelievable.
Men, as well, at this point in life, suffer crossroad moments that really do last a long time, healthwise and not.
If ya'll both are dealing with similiar times of 'ho-hum' or something else more seriouse, indeed you have a tangle.
Your wife, as well, is changing as a mother. Her two older sons are grown and don't need her as much and if #1 is seeing through her, that's painful for her; for their relationship. He's not her baby anymore, hasn't been for a long time.
Son #2 studying ministry has most likely had marriage and family classes and he gets it too and feels helpless to help his parents, cuz of his bias and she likely knows that as well. She knows her boys 'get it' and as a mom that's a hard row to hoe.
Then she's got son # 3 who is yet a child yet approaching manhood faster than she'd like.
All of her 'mom things' are differant now and to a woman that's a good/bad thing and it can be confusing, wonderful, scary and painful.
Especially if she knows the babies she raised know the score with mom and dad. As parents we don't want our kids to see that stuff, right?
Add to that her career is going along good, which is another catch-22 thing. Should she back off what she loves to see to four men in her life that she likely knows don't like her much anyway? That trashes a woman's self esteem to a pulp; especially the mom part.
Is it possible that this really is "just" a crossroads in your lives? A time that if you each hang in there and see it through, it'll be ok on the other end?
I'm assuming you are both in your 40's somewhere. Biologically, we humans hit a time during this age where we take a look at our lives and hate what we see and feel we don't fit, don't like the people we loved before, can't figure out what to do.
It seems that once the kids are all grown, gone and settled and in a marriage the couple looks at each other with some sort of 'who the hell are you?'.
After all that, I still suggest talking to a woman. Get her view, remembering that we all see things through out own lens, with our own bias.
If you really want to divorce, certainly don't beat yourself up. You've done enough of that in the last years (especially months) as you've been all consumed with this, trying to figure out what to do.
Have you asked your wife if she wants a divorce? You might be surprised at her answers.
I wish you well and hope that whatever you decide, that you'll give it great consideration and take a peek at the whole picture, including more than just what you see before you now.
Unearthing the really ugly painful stuff is no fun, but I believe you'll be surprised if you can bring yourself to do it.
I have read this entire thread a couple of times...and I am very sorry to see you living through this.
Am I reading your first post correctly? Is the REASON you are staying married because of your belief that is the only correct biblical answer? Are you staying married because you believe it is the right thing to do? Are you staying married because even though you don't like your wife, you love her? I am trying to figure out what it is you are really saying.
The older I get and the further I get (mentally) from the devilish teachings of twi, the more compassion I seem to have. I don't have as much tendency to be morally judgmental, and I just really want people to be happy. I find a lot of gut honesty in what Zixar has posted.....and a lot of wisdom in what 3cents has said.
Personally, speaking as a middle aged woman, possibly quite like your wife....I wouldn't want a man to stay with me out of obligation, or guilt or fear he would lose half his money . What person wants someone to be tethered to them, if they no longer want to be?
There is the part of me that is screaming....FIGURE IT OUT TOGETHER........make sure you are understanding each other. Then there is the part of me that says.....don't stay with me out of obligation, pity or fear.
70s guy.....what do you WANT TO DO? I agree with 3cents....marriage counseling works when both people want it to. For yourself...finding someone to help you figure out what YOU personally want....that might be a good way to start.
Go with God 70s.....you have a lot of us hoping you find your heart in this.
Radar
Shell, you and I cross posted.....If I had read what YOU wrote.....I probably wouldn't have felt the need to write what I wrote. You ROCK Shell.
If you think I'm under the law in this thats fine. Thats not how I see it.
Ex70's,
I did not mean to make light of your feelings. I understand them very well and totally appreciate your commitment and sentiments. I'm not advocating that you should threaten her with divorce, only that you find someway to establish your boundaries.
Is there anyway for you to open up a dialogue and tell her "This is the way I feel about fill-in-the-blank?" That way you let her know how you feel about your issues and the ball is in her court to respond.
Apparently, from what I've been taught from a qualified Christian counselor, "I feel" statements are not threatening to the other person and you can even say "You don't have to say anything. I just would appreciate it if you would listen to my feelings on this subject."
The ladies in my network group say this really helps to diffuse tension just to throw it out there and tell them how you feel in non-threatening language (e.g. "When you do or don't do this, it makes me feel unappreciated or whatever your feelings are.")
"It's all about meeee, wonderful meee, perfect and flawless mee, meee, meee!" is what I'm seeing.
I've been married for 28 years. I'm 60 years old. Not a lot of wisdom, maybe, but here's a couple things I'd like to throw out for those who like to verbally abuse people who think differently from them.
1. It's not just about romance, sex, or love, it's about the commitment.
2. I would think that there might be a bit of depression going on with your wife, IF this is the norm, you "doing it all" so to speak. Women who are around the time of the "change" tend to get depressed. I would recommend she undergo a complete physical.
3. Try a little communication. Try a lot of communication.
4. Maybe she's bored with you, too, big guy!
Sorry if I'm not all that sympathetic. You sound like the guy who just turned 40 and wants to trade his wife in on two 20-year-olds.
My husband teaches, and the kids who have the most trouble/get in the most trouble in school, always seem to come from broken homes. Even if the "children" have grown up and moved out, it will still have a negative effect.
You really need to work this out. I suspect the reason so many people say run right out and find a divorce lawyer so YOU can be happy is they think this is what TWI would NOT say.
You made a commitment. Stand by it. That's my advice. Divorce should be a last resort, NOT a first option. Get some counselling, talk to your pastor or a good psychologist or someone, a professional.
I would be absolute livid if my husband posted this kind of crap about me on the internet for all to see. Someone will figure out who you are. How embarrasing for both of you.
reading your second post, I think I sound rather harsh. Sorry. I think for the most part we agree on marriage per se.
Are you close to a bigger town, with perhaps bigger medical systems? You could go there once a week for counselling?
PS: she really sounds depressed to me. Being a nurse is no excuse. I was a medical secretary for 20 years when I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I was caught completely off guard. Should have known the symptoms. Totally oblivious to them.
Hang in there. Sorry if I jumped your anatomy unjustly.
WG, I don't see *anyone* saying run to a divorce lawyer.
I see lots of posts that say "talk to her", "work it out with her if possible", "figure out what you want", "communicate". And then, only then, if nothing else works, THEN talk to an attorney.
I would be absolute livid if my husband posted this kind of crap about me on the internet for all to see. Someone will figure out who you are. How embarrasing for both of you.
You said it, WG.
Geez, ex70, unless there's a lot more going on than what you're posting here, then get a grip. I can't believe you're getting any sympathy at all for this extended whine.
So your wife doesn't like to cook, eh? Hoo boy, how DO you cope? And on top of that, she wants to visit with her son and his guest?!? I can see why you feel like blowing up!!! How have you kept your composure thus far?!
Zix, This is isn't about lies and betrayal. He already said in his first post that his wife has been faithful, attentive toward the children, and has a good work ethic. In addition to that, she's recently had to face the sorrow of her own mortality in her ordeal with cancer. And this is all the respect she gets. Unbelievable.
For your info I'm 50 and don't have any interset in 20 yr olds, yes my wife fights depression and takes medications for it, the "change" as you put it came years back due to cancer, this is nothing new and I havn't run out and gotten a divorce, I came to an anonimuous chat room of people who have gone through some of the same things I did.
Tell yall what. Lets just close this topic and I'll deal with this thing myself.
As far as mee mee mee. I do all the cleaning cooking and stuff around the house so she can sit infront of her computer and play games or who knows shell move to the living room and watch movies all night long as the family walks on egg shells so we don't make any noise.
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Cindy!
ex70's....check the About the Way thread, on page 2 (i think) is a whole thread about this. It is MarriageQ
Marriage Q
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Zshot
It seems that some people forget what a "help mate" is...
Maybe this might help...
1. Write out what your likes and dis-likes are about her.
2. Talk to her about it.
3. Seek a professional marriage counselor.
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oldiesman
ex70'shouston, have you tried marriage counselling?
Sounds like you really need it cause you don't like your wife anymore and maybe she doesn't like you either? Go get professional help.
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waterbuffalo
Ex70's,
Hi. I agree with the above posters. Many times when we talk things out, we discover our spouse doesn't think the way we thought they thought after they express their thoughts and feelings. Much can be hidden from those we love when we hold things in. For example, she may be upset about something that you don't know about because of a false impression she may have about how you think about issue. Maybe it's the other way around. These are just possibilities that come out in counseling sometimes.
Also, I disagree that Jesus has put us under the law in this or any other area. If you're feeling like you are, maybe there is another voice from twi days still in your head. It takes time to distinguish between them sometimes. But, if you're feeling like you have no options and you're boxed in, chances are that's coming from some left-over stuff from them.
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Zixar
About counseling: Sometimes, you don't need a weatherman to tell you it's raining. If it works for you, great. If you're not really getting anywhere with it, don't continue to throw money down a rat hole.
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Nottawayfer
Does your wife know you feel this way? If you talk to her and tell her how her actions make you feel, will she listen or show insensitivity to your feelings?
Have either of you learned to speak the other's love language? I know it sounds silly, but it really does help if you know your spouse's love language and how to speak it and vice versa. There are things that show certain people how you love them.
For instance, my husband could tell me all day long that he loves me and he could buy me presents every day, but those two things are not my love language. I need kisses, hugs, and physical affection. My husband, on the other hand, needs to be told that I love him. For some people it is doing chores like washing their car, buying gifts, or actually telling someone how wonderful they are.
I am a true believer in this although I know it is extremely hard to start over when you've made so many bad habits with a person. But it's worth a shot if you want to honor your marriage. "They" have said that communication is the key to a successful marriage. I think that communication isn't always talking. It can be your actions.
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TheInvisibleDan
You've got to wean yourself off being the martyr-cook, busting your arse for everyone. Here's some ideas:
1.) Frozen pizzas
2.) paper plates
3.) more frozen pizzas
4.) more paper plates.
Of course, you can really get fancy if you have a microwave, and just stock up your freezer with TV dinners.
Perhaps your wife and family will get sick of frozen pizzas, enough to get off the couch and explore the joys of cooking again.
:)-->
Danny
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waterbuffalo
Ex70's,
If you answer these questions, it would help me to understand the situation better:
1. Do you both work full-time jobs?
2. Who normally does most of the cooking/cleaning/grocery shopping/handling the bills (getting them paid on time)/laundry/childcare, etc?
I mean, does she sit at home all day watching soap operas, you work all day, then you always do all of the housework too? If so, I'd be really po'd too. Or, does she work a full-time job, usually does all of #2 by herself, but you did it all this time?
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Oakspear
ex-70's:
We're discussing your wife on an open forum without her input. See anything wrong with that?
If you need help, don't post your dirty laundry for all to see.
Maybe she's got her side too.
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TheHighWay
Oaks... this is one of the few times I really disagree with you...
Your post makes it sound like he's just bee-atching behind her back. I don't get that impression.The guy is looking for help... trying to figure out what to do... using a multitude of counsellors to gain wisdom. It mostly sounds like he would like to SAVE his marriage, and most of the advice he's getting here is "talk to HER" and "get professional input".
Now, if he comes back time and again with the same gripe and no effort on his part, that's another thing. But give the guy some credit at least to start.
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ex70sHouston
Let me wade back in before this goes completly off the chart.
The first thing I have to say is that I believe that God brought us together. I take the for better or worse sriously. I was praised by many by standing by her when she went through cancer. That was then and now is now.
So let me ask you. Do you believe in God and what is said in the Bible. Jesus taught that divorce is of man and not intended by God. I believe that.
I live in a small town and the wife does not want couceling because everyone will know in a short time. Her way of handling problems is to retreat from them and do somthing that is fun or diferant. She teachs nursing at a small university and has designed more charts and other things than you can imagine. She has gotten credit for reviewing a text book.
Me, I own a small air conditioning company.
Three sons. #1 is back home for the second time and is 22. Has a good job (makes more money than mom). #2 son is 19 and in colage studing to go into the ministry. #3 son is 13 and in the 7th grade.
Would a breakup affect them. Hell yes. #1 would not mind. He has seen through his mom for years. #2 see's it but doesnt want to. We had an argument while in Mexico lasat year on a mission trip. #2 saw what I put up with and was devistated. He would have problems. #3 would be a basket case.
So how important are your kids? I'd kill for mine.
I have prayed about this more than you can imagine and what I get is to stay. Thats God's answer.
So all of you here is my question? How much sufferring will you take if you feel its what God wants. Or are you weak like I am at times and just want to walk.
If you think I'm under the law in this thats fine. Thats not how I see it. My wife knows of this forum and I have sent her some of the comical stuff. But this is generic and anonimus enough that I don't worry about her not saying her side. Her side is that she doesnt like to cook, can't handle the emotions of counciling, and thinks that I should just be happy.
For all you chat room sex fiends the sex stopped two years ago. Hell we havn't had sex five times in the last 6 years. No sex on the 25th aniversery.
Think bad of me but this is my way of releasing frustration. Its better than doing other things.
And if you think this is my dirty laundry what is all this stuff we talk about. Its the dirt we left behind.
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Zixar
The point is, you're not happy, are you? If she's not meeting your needs in bed, and treats sex like a chore, she's already broken her "due benevolence" commitment to you. That's not a license to go elsewhere before you're divorced, but if one party breaks the contract first, the other is not bound.
If you're really worried about son #3, you might try getting him some counseling. Screw what the neighbors think--they'll know for certain as soon as you get divorced anyway. They'll either know your marriage is in trouble and you're trying to fix it, or your marriage is over, period.
If your wife will not change, and you don't want to stay with her if she won't, talk to an attorney.
You're going to get screwed over though, because she'll probably get half the business you own. But how much is the rest of your life worth?
Going through it myself,
Zix
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My3Cents
Marriage counseling is for people who both want to make their marriage better. You are not sure what you want to do, so marriage counseling won't help, even if your wife would go.
I'd suggest you go see a counselor on your own to help you figure out what you want. Remember you can't control another person - just yourself.
I believe a divorce can be bad for kids. But I also believe a bad marriage can be as bad and sometimes worse. If you decide to divorce, you can still be a good parent. I'm able to be a better parent since my divorce.
FYUI - I don't believe in the bible and don't care what Jesus said about it. That may color your opinion of my advice. I think marriage has historically been primarily an economic institution. That's one reason it was important to stick it out no matter what.
In our times it still is an economic necessity for many people but for many people it is not. Many people's idea of being poor is being down to one car and no cable TV. Hardly life threatening.
I think our society is working on new ways to understand what marriage means when it's not economically vital to survival. I think that will take a couple generations (and still won't apply to everyone).
Just my two cents and one for inflation. Best wishes.
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Shellon
This thread has bugged me since it started.
I struggle with contributing a word, as I thankfully have never suffered a divorce; I have no idea what it's like, save for being a kid of divorce.
What if you, yourself, seek out counseling? Another option that I see effective is for each to get the perspective of the opposite sex. You speak to a woman about the female side of marriage, answer some tough questions, ask some of your own.
A woman that you trust very much.
I can contribute a word or two about being married, as I did experience that. I stayed in it because of the vows and I have no regrets therein. But I also loved the man enough to stick it out for the vows.
Not to suggest that you don't love your wife, or she you. You said you don't like her; I think we can all relate to that.
It's so easy to get 'settled' in a marriage, take the other for granted, assume it'll always be at least the way it is.
Consider, also, other things in life. Health issues that effect other areas of our life, for instance. Women take on alot of things within our bodies about this time in your wife's life that can throw the most wonderful of gals so far off her axis; it's unbelievable.
Men, as well, at this point in life, suffer crossroad moments that really do last a long time, healthwise and not.
If ya'll both are dealing with similiar times of 'ho-hum' or something else more seriouse, indeed you have a tangle.
Your wife, as well, is changing as a mother. Her two older sons are grown and don't need her as much and if #1 is seeing through her, that's painful for her; for their relationship. He's not her baby anymore, hasn't been for a long time.
Son #2 studying ministry has most likely had marriage and family classes and he gets it too and feels helpless to help his parents, cuz of his bias and she likely knows that as well. She knows her boys 'get it' and as a mom that's a hard row to hoe.
Then she's got son # 3 who is yet a child yet approaching manhood faster than she'd like.
All of her 'mom things' are differant now and to a woman that's a good/bad thing and it can be confusing, wonderful, scary and painful.
Especially if she knows the babies she raised know the score with mom and dad. As parents we don't want our kids to see that stuff, right?
Add to that her career is going along good, which is another catch-22 thing. Should she back off what she loves to see to four men in her life that she likely knows don't like her much anyway? That trashes a woman's self esteem to a pulp; especially the mom part.
Is it possible that this really is "just" a crossroads in your lives? A time that if you each hang in there and see it through, it'll be ok on the other end?
I'm assuming you are both in your 40's somewhere. Biologically, we humans hit a time during this age where we take a look at our lives and hate what we see and feel we don't fit, don't like the people we loved before, can't figure out what to do.
It seems that once the kids are all grown, gone and settled and in a marriage the couple looks at each other with some sort of 'who the hell are you?'.
After all that, I still suggest talking to a woman. Get her view, remembering that we all see things through out own lens, with our own bias.
If you really want to divorce, certainly don't beat yourself up. You've done enough of that in the last years (especially months) as you've been all consumed with this, trying to figure out what to do.
Have you asked your wife if she wants a divorce? You might be surprised at her answers.
I wish you well and hope that whatever you decide, that you'll give it great consideration and take a peek at the whole picture, including more than just what you see before you now.
Unearthing the really ugly painful stuff is no fun, but I believe you'll be surprised if you can bring yourself to do it.
Good luck to you and your family.
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Radar OReilly
I have read this entire thread a couple of times...and I am very sorry to see you living through this.
Am I reading your first post correctly? Is the REASON you are staying married because of your belief that is the only correct biblical answer? Are you staying married because you believe it is the right thing to do? Are you staying married because even though you don't like your wife, you love her? I am trying to figure out what it is you are really saying.
The older I get and the further I get (mentally) from the devilish teachings of twi, the more compassion I seem to have. I don't have as much tendency to be morally judgmental, and I just really want people to be happy. I find a lot of gut honesty in what Zixar has posted.....and a lot of wisdom in what 3cents has said.
Personally, speaking as a middle aged woman, possibly quite like your wife....I wouldn't want a man to stay with me out of obligation, or guilt or fear he would lose half his money
. What person wants someone to be tethered to them, if they no longer want to be?
There is the part of me that is screaming....FIGURE IT OUT TOGETHER........make sure you are understanding each other. Then there is the part of me that says.....don't stay with me out of obligation, pity or fear.
70s guy.....what do you WANT TO DO? I agree with 3cents....marriage counseling works when both people want it to. For yourself...finding someone to help you figure out what YOU personally want....that might be a good way to start.
Go with God 70s.....you have a lot of us hoping you find your heart in this.
Radar
Shell, you and I cross posted.....If I had read what YOU wrote.....I probably wouldn't have felt the need to write what I wrote. You ROCK Shell.
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waterbuffalo
Ex70's,
I did not mean to make light of your feelings. I understand them very well and totally appreciate your commitment and sentiments. I'm not advocating that you should threaten her with divorce, only that you find someway to establish your boundaries.
Is there anyway for you to open up a dialogue and tell her "This is the way I feel about fill-in-the-blank?" That way you let her know how you feel about your issues and the ball is in her court to respond.
Apparently, from what I've been taught from a qualified Christian counselor, "I feel" statements are not threatening to the other person and you can even say "You don't have to say anything. I just would appreciate it if you would listen to my feelings on this subject."
The ladies in my network group say this really helps to diffuse tension just to throw it out there and tell them how you feel in non-threatening language (e.g. "When you do or don't do this, it makes me feel unappreciated or whatever your feelings are.")
Anyway, hope this helps.
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Zixar
Post deleted.
Aaah, what's the use? Ex70: Good luck, you'll need it.
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Watered Garden
"It's all about meeee, wonderful meee, perfect and flawless mee, meee, meee!" is what I'm seeing.
I've been married for 28 years. I'm 60 years old. Not a lot of wisdom, maybe, but here's a couple things I'd like to throw out for those who like to verbally abuse people who think differently from them.
1. It's not just about romance, sex, or love, it's about the commitment.
2. I would think that there might be a bit of depression going on with your wife, IF this is the norm, you "doing it all" so to speak. Women who are around the time of the "change" tend to get depressed. I would recommend she undergo a complete physical.
3. Try a little communication. Try a lot of communication.
4. Maybe she's bored with you, too, big guy!
Sorry if I'm not all that sympathetic. You sound like the guy who just turned 40 and wants to trade his wife in on two 20-year-olds.
My husband teaches, and the kids who have the most trouble/get in the most trouble in school, always seem to come from broken homes. Even if the "children" have grown up and moved out, it will still have a negative effect.
You really need to work this out. I suspect the reason so many people say run right out and find a divorce lawyer so YOU can be happy is they think this is what TWI would NOT say.
You made a commitment. Stand by it. That's my advice. Divorce should be a last resort, NOT a first option. Get some counselling, talk to your pastor or a good psychologist or someone, a professional.
I would be absolute livid if my husband posted this kind of crap about me on the internet for all to see. Someone will figure out who you are. How embarrasing for both of you.
WG
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Watered Garden
reading your second post, I think I sound rather harsh. Sorry. I think for the most part we agree on marriage per se.
Are you close to a bigger town, with perhaps bigger medical systems? You could go there once a week for counselling?
PS: she really sounds depressed to me. Being a nurse is no excuse. I was a medical secretary for 20 years when I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I was caught completely off guard. Should have known the symptoms. Totally oblivious to them.
Hang in there. Sorry if I jumped your anatomy unjustly.
wG
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oldiesman
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Steve!
WG, I don't see *anyone* saying run to a divorce lawyer.
I see lots of posts that say "talk to her", "work it out with her if possible", "figure out what you want", "communicate". And then, only then, if nothing else works, THEN talk to an attorney.
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laleo
You said it, WG.
Geez, ex70, unless there's a lot more going on than what you're posting here, then get a grip. I can't believe you're getting any sympathy at all for this extended whine.
So your wife doesn't like to cook, eh? Hoo boy, how DO you cope? And on top of that, she wants to visit with her son and his guest?!? I can see why you feel like blowing up!!! How have you kept your composure thus far?!
Zix, This is isn't about lies and betrayal. He already said in his first post that his wife has been faithful, attentive toward the children, and has a good work ethic. In addition to that, she's recently had to face the sorrow of her own mortality in her ordeal with cancer. And this is all the respect she gets. Unbelievable.
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ex70sHouston
ya know WG sometimes you just got to vent.
For your info I'm 50 and don't have any interset in 20 yr olds, yes my wife fights depression and takes medications for it, the "change" as you put it came years back due to cancer, this is nothing new and I havn't run out and gotten a divorce, I came to an anonimuous chat room of people who have gone through some of the same things I did.
Tell yall what. Lets just close this topic and I'll deal with this thing myself.
As far as mee mee mee. I do all the cleaning cooking and stuff around the house so she can sit infront of her computer and play games or who knows shell move to the living room and watch movies all night long as the family walks on egg shells so we don't make any noise.
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Watered Garden
Once again, I apologize. You do need to vent! And a lot of professional help needs to happen.
However, I will pray for both of you. Nothing happens without prayer. And I've seen more marriage miracles than breakups lately.
God bless you. I'm sorry I bit so hard.
Okay?
WG
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