My info is about 2 1/2 years old. The corps I knew were pretty numb. Not much going on. Same old, same old. No growth at all. Just pretending to "prevail", whatever that means. It is a sad life they are facing. Ministry demands are so great that there is no hope of having a career at all. The closest thing to good news I have is that TWI has gotten so small that getting to know their "people" won't take long.
I too have some family that is planning on going in the corps in a few years. It is saddening. Our family doesn't really talk about TWI stuff outside of the debt issue. I don't know if "hey, don't go in the corps", is the way to start.
The way I would go about it (and have begun this process) is to start with their goals. My family wants a house someday would like to live in a perticular part of the country etc. These things, while not impossible, are not very easy when in the corps. Same with wanting to go to school.
The other way is to go about poking holes in their doctrine, which as I said we have only gone into the debt issue. I've been considering going into many serious issues, but I don't know yet.
Then again.
Think of how many corps there used to be and how many there are now. They get closer to the fire, so it is more likely that they will get burned. Now that doesn't sound like something to you would wish for family, but sometimes it is the only way a blind person will realise they are dealing with fire.
Tell them they are making a horrible mistake. Tell them to read the countless testimonies of former twi followers here at the Greasespot Cafe...
That says it all. There is nothing new under the sun, and no one here is lying about what happened to them, so IT IS BOUND TO REPEAT.
Tell them to *take a hike* while they still can, and give SERIOUS consideration to what is said here on GSCafe. This ain't no *make-believe*, but flesh and blood experiences that most would rather have not had to go through, given the chance had they known what lay ahead.
Lindy, you reminded me of my own story. Here is how I ended up talking myself out of going in the corps.
I went to my LC at the time to plan for going corps. I was really the gung-ho wayfer type. Do anything, go anywhere. We got on the subject of life planning and things fell apart. Keep in mind, we were a good bit of the way into the process. I asked about retirement, assuming there was a plan BOY WAS I WRONG! NO plan at all. I got a blank stare.
TaylorCompany,
It might help your family members to ask them in a positive way about retirement planning. There is no need to make it a big, heavy confrontation. Use their own tricks against them. Start off with innocent sounding questions. Then walk through the numbers. They won't add up. The last "plan" I heard was the corps could put so much away at the end of each month. It was just a suggestion and TWI did no matching. One corps family I knew was "believing" to start putting $50/month away. They were in their 40s with kids getting ready for college! The wife was expected to only work 20 hours/week and they both put in about 40 hours for TWI work. That made it very tough to earn enough to save.
Let's say they did start right away. (10 years later and they were still "believing") IF they did:
12 months x $50 = $600 each year.
20 years until retirement = $12,000
Yes, there will be interest but not that much at today's rates.
(I'm no math whiz so if someone wants to do interest calculations, please do)
My point is that it REALLY annoyed my LC when I did some math of my own and it was obvious that it was a joke. It annoyed the corps family when I pointed out that their plan would only give them about a years income. Cold, sober thinking is a great antidote for TWI's vague thought process. When I saw my future as hoping that social security holds up, I said "no thanks."
I too talked myself out of it. I always thought I would go into the corps. That is until the D@rn*lls left. They always talked about how even thought they left a multi-million dollar business, going full time was the best decision they ever made. They talked about "putting your hand to the plow and not looking back" and all that. Then they left. Good for them.
It made me think. What about me? Am I ready to make that vow? Everyone said being a leader was a calling. Was I being called? I realised I wasn't hearing anything. I realised that I was only thinking about going in the corps because that just seemed like the next step, because that is what was expected of me. The only thing I was hearing was everyone asking me "when are you going corps?", "when are you going in the corps like your brother?".
And I wanted to go to school and finish my degree. I had plans on making it big in my profession. I wanted to enjoy life, lol. I didn't see that happening with anyone in the corps. And I seem to have this problem with authority, lol.
One of my problems with hitting my family member hard with serious questions is that it could seriously affect his impending marriage. A marriage that would seem to be based on love. That would only be the second time that has happened in my family, the other being my marriage. The only hope I see is their dreams outside twi being dashed someday in the future as a wake-up call.
Doesn't WC training all happen at Gunnison these days?
Last I heard, Gr*g & Lo^i B*lch@lk were the WC coordinators there...
I don't know if that's still the case, but if so...
Well...
...if your family who is going in the WC have any heart or human characteristics left in them then you won't have to worry about them being in the WC training for long!
I hate to say this, but if your family members have decided to go in the corps at this point in twi, there is probably not much you can do to convince them not to go. Nudge them, but don't break with them over this. Because for many, the current corps experience is harsh and hurtful. It's not a great way to discover the truth about twi, but it can serve to shock them into getting out. And when they do, you can be there to support them. If you get too in their face now, they may be too angry or stubborn or embarrassed to admit their mistake later.
TaylorCompany...I noticed that this was your first post. I hope there are many more to follow. Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe...Raf should be around soon with your complimentary cup of coffee.
Regarding your relatives, I think it's their decision and you might do well to just accept it. But invite them to Greasespot Cafe and see what happens. Maybe they can be reached enough to ask some tough questions about their upcoming commitment?
*it`s their decisision and you might do well to just accept it*
You don`t DO that when someone you care about is walking into a situation, oblivious to the impending danger.
On the contrary, one fights with every weapon in their arsenal to help the loved one to safety....in spite of the protests..someday you will be thanked.
Good luck TaylorCo. your prayers insights and efforts may be the very tools God utilizes to aid yet another family to freedom!
Don`t give up, it is a noble effort..
I agreee with Hiway, don`t offend them, don`t paint them into a corner....honest concern, genuine caring will shine through, and they will feel comortable turning to you when it all comes crashing down around their ears....
Give them no reason to brand you as a heretic, and there for untrustworthey.....
If the lines of communication stay open, you have more of a chance of helping them. It speaks well of you that you are thinking this through before saying anything. As you care enough to put thought into it, I'm sure you'll do a great job.
Thanks to everyone for the input on our situation. Really appreciate everyone's concerns. We will use wisdom and do everything to keep the lines of communication open. We have decided not to provide any financial support. I also agree that we need to be there to provide an "out" when the time comes. Surely the rigors and control that will multiply when they are in WC will give them second thoughts.
I have not posted in some time. My wife and I spent a year at the family ranch (1996). Wow that is so long ago. Anyway... to this day I thank God they kicked us out of corp.! We left the ministery shorly after LCM was kicked out. If I can help anyone out or answer any questions for anyone, please email me at wonder777_1999@yahoo.com.
Okay folks let's get in the time machine and go back and remember our attitude and mind set when we were "in". We knew it all we knew the truth we knew the "real" spiritual "reality" behind what we could see in the "5 senses realm."
And what got through to us????????? Well... it wasn't any one thing... was it?? So TC.... maybe do what you're doing. Tell them what truth you know about twi. Offer no $ while they are "in". But be there if they ever want to leave.
There may be one thing you can do though. Tell them to LISTEN to GOD when they see what they think are contradictions.... tell them to believe GOD is showing it to them.... that it's NOT just their natural mind senses talking to them and that GOD will talk to them just as much as anyone else.
Basiclly (sp) use the twi logic against twi! Reinforce their desire to serve God... and reinforce their "spiritual eyes" so that...
when the time comes for them to break away because the've relized twi's evil, they won't have to overcome pride to admit they made a mistake!
Think how many times pride has stood in the way of resolving a conflict. No one likes to admit they made a mistake. And when it comes to something you believe in as much as we did like twi... it's even harder.
So stay in touch with them even if they don't respond. And build them up so it will be easier for them to say... "You were SO right but I just couldn't see it until I was right in it." Or something like that... and good luck!
Thanks for the great ideas! Since we left twi we have slowly gotten back our relationship with our kid. It has taken time, wisdom, and acceptance. The thing we have been trying to do is much of what all of you have said although we haven't gotten into too many confrontations. We let them know where we stand with God and give advice when asked and tell them what to consider.
It is encouraging to hear that the leadership at gunnison may be the ones that push them over the edge. They have good hearts and I think when they see the signs they will recognize them when it is in their face. It took a long time for them to want to hear why we left and if things are still the same, which I'm sure they are, they will be able to put the pieces together.
You guys (and gals) are great...we've been on the site many times over the years but haven't been involved. We'll keep you posted!
Recently I read Outandabout's story here on Greasespot on the MY STORY forum. That pretty much gives you a good taste of what the way corps was and I believe is still all about.
I know she was in the 8th corps ... but I have a feeling that the 'corps' of the program hasn't changed. Those running the program are basically still self-serving and evil.
I can't remember now who wrote this, but it's very sage advice:
quote:
If you get too in their face now, they may be too angry or stubborn or embarrassed to admit their mistake later.
I highly recommend getting Steve Hassan's book on Freedom from Bondage: Helping People Think for Themselves.....or something along those lines. It is VERY helpful in how to speak to people "in" a cult to help remind them of who they were before they got involved and how to talk to their "authentic self". It's got good advice on the kinds of questions to ask and how to ask them, etc. It was invaluable to me and now my therapist has it. :D-->
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Steve!
Ick.
There's *nothing* ahead for these folks.
I feel *so* bad for them.
I don't know what to tell you, I don't know what will help these hapless folks.
What a *f**ck*ng* pity.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Tell them they are making a horrible mistake. Tell them to read the countless testimonies of former twi followers here at the Greasespot Cafe...
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JustThinking
TC,
My info is about 2 1/2 years old. The corps I knew were pretty numb. Not much going on. Same old, same old. No growth at all. Just pretending to "prevail", whatever that means. It is a sad life they are facing. Ministry demands are so great that there is no hope of having a career at all. The closest thing to good news I have is that TWI has gotten so small that getting to know their "people" won't take long.
JT
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lindyhopper
I too have some family that is planning on going in the corps in a few years. It is saddening. Our family doesn't really talk about TWI stuff outside of the debt issue. I don't know if "hey, don't go in the corps", is the way to start.
The way I would go about it (and have begun this process) is to start with their goals. My family wants a house someday would like to live in a perticular part of the country etc. These things, while not impossible, are not very easy when in the corps. Same with wanting to go to school.
The other way is to go about poking holes in their doctrine, which as I said we have only gone into the debt issue. I've been considering going into many serious issues, but I don't know yet.
Then again.
Think of how many corps there used to be and how many there are now. They get closer to the fire, so it is more likely that they will get burned. Now that doesn't sound like something to you would wish for family, but sometimes it is the only way a blind person will realise they are dealing with fire.
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dmiller
That says it all. There is nothing new under the sun, and no one here is lying about what happened to them, so IT IS BOUND TO REPEAT.
Tell them to *take a hike* while they still can, and give SERIOUS consideration to what is said here on GSCafe. This ain't no *make-believe*, but flesh and blood experiences that most would rather have not had to go through, given the chance had they known what lay ahead.
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JustThinking
Lindy, you reminded me of my own story. Here is how I ended up talking myself out of going in the corps.
I went to my LC at the time to plan for going corps. I was really the gung-ho wayfer type. Do anything, go anywhere. We got on the subject of life planning and things fell apart. Keep in mind, we were a good bit of the way into the process. I asked about retirement, assuming there was a plan BOY WAS I WRONG! NO plan at all. I got a blank stare.
TaylorCompany,
It might help your family members to ask them in a positive way about retirement planning. There is no need to make it a big, heavy confrontation. Use their own tricks against them. Start off with innocent sounding questions. Then walk through the numbers. They won't add up. The last "plan" I heard was the corps could put so much away at the end of each month. It was just a suggestion and TWI did no matching. One corps family I knew was "believing" to start putting $50/month away. They were in their 40s with kids getting ready for college! The wife was expected to only work 20 hours/week and they both put in about 40 hours for TWI work. That made it very tough to earn enough to save.
Let's say they did start right away. (10 years later and they were still "believing") IF they did:
12 months x $50 = $600 each year.
20 years until retirement = $12,000
Yes, there will be interest but not that much at today's rates.
(I'm no math whiz so if someone wants to do interest calculations, please do)
My point is that it REALLY annoyed my LC when I did some math of my own and it was obvious that it was a joke. It annoyed the corps family when I pointed out that their plan would only give them about a years income. Cold, sober thinking is a great antidote for TWI's vague thought process. When I saw my future as hoping that social security holds up, I said "no thanks."
JT
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dmiller
JT --- 50 bucks a month!!????
That is (about) 4 hours of a day's worth of work for me. Yea -- I'm under-paid too, but I can do that much, easily -- with NO *believing*.
:(-->
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lindyhopper
Thanks, JT, your story is incouraging.
I too talked myself out of it. I always thought I would go into the corps. That is until the D@rn*lls left. They always talked about how even thought they left a multi-million dollar business, going full time was the best decision they ever made. They talked about "putting your hand to the plow and not looking back" and all that. Then they left. Good for them.
It made me think. What about me? Am I ready to make that vow? Everyone said being a leader was a calling. Was I being called? I realised I wasn't hearing anything. I realised that I was only thinking about going in the corps because that just seemed like the next step, because that is what was expected of me. The only thing I was hearing was everyone asking me "when are you going corps?", "when are you going in the corps like your brother?".
And I wanted to go to school and finish my degree. I had plans on making it big in my profession. I wanted to enjoy life, lol. I didn't see that happening with anyone in the corps. And I seem to have this problem with authority, lol.
One of my problems with hitting my family member hard with serious questions is that it could seriously affect his impending marriage. A marriage that would seem to be based on love. That would only be the second time that has happened in my family, the other being my marriage. The only hope I see is their dreams outside twi being dashed someday in the future as a wake-up call.
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ChasUFarley
Doesn't WC training all happen at Gunnison these days?
Last I heard, Gr*g & Lo^i B*lch@lk were the WC coordinators there...
I don't know if that's still the case, but if so...
Well...
...if your family who is going in the WC have any heart or human characteristics left in them then you won't have to worry about them being in the WC training for long!
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TheHighWay
Taylor,
I hate to say this, but if your family members have decided to go in the corps at this point in twi, there is probably not much you can do to convince them not to go. Nudge them, but don't break with them over this. Because for many, the current corps experience is harsh and hurtful. It's not a great way to discover the truth about twi, but it can serve to shock them into getting out. And when they do, you can be there to support them. If you get too in their face now, they may be too angry or stubborn or embarrassed to admit their mistake later.
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GrouchoMarxJr
TaylorCompany...I noticed that this was your first post. I hope there are many more to follow. Welcome to the Greasespot Cafe...Raf should be around soon with your complimentary cup of coffee.
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oldiesman
Welcome to the Spot, TaylorCompany!
Regarding your relatives, I think it's their decision and you might do well to just accept it. But invite them to Greasespot Cafe and see what happens. Maybe they can be reached enough to ask some tough questions about their upcoming commitment?
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rascal
*it`s their decisision and you might do well to just accept it*
You don`t DO that when someone you care about is walking into a situation, oblivious to the impending danger.
On the contrary, one fights with every weapon in their arsenal to help the loved one to safety....in spite of the protests..someday you will be thanked.
Good luck TaylorCo. your prayers insights and efforts may be the very tools God utilizes to aid yet another family to freedom!
Don`t give up, it is a noble effort..
I agreee with Hiway, don`t offend them, don`t paint them into a corner....honest concern, genuine caring will shine through, and they will feel comortable turning to you when it all comes crashing down around their ears....
Give them no reason to brand you as a heretic, and there for untrustworthey.....
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JustThinking
TaylorCompany,
If the lines of communication stay open, you have more of a chance of helping them. It speaks well of you that you are thinking this through before saying anything. As you care enough to put thought into it, I'm sure you'll do a great job.
JT
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TaylorCompany
Thanks to everyone for the input on our situation. Really appreciate everyone's concerns. We will use wisdom and do everything to keep the lines of communication open. We have decided not to provide any financial support. I also agree that we need to be there to provide an "out" when the time comes. Surely the rigors and control that will multiply when they are in WC will give them second thoughts.
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Steve!
The best thing you can do is listen to what God has to say.
He might tell you to bear down hard, He might tell you to just pray.
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Wonder
Hello.
I have not posted in some time. My wife and I spent a year at the family ranch (1996). Wow that is so long ago. Anyway... to this day I thank God they kicked us out of corp.! We left the ministery shorly after LCM was kicked out. If I can help anyone out or answer any questions for anyone, please email me at wonder777_1999@yahoo.com.
Wondering
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Al Poole
Okay folks let's get in the time machine and go back and remember our attitude and mind set when we were "in". We knew it all we knew the truth we knew the "real" spiritual "reality" behind what we could see in the "5 senses realm."
And what got through to us????????? Well... it wasn't any one thing... was it?? So TC.... maybe do what you're doing. Tell them what truth you know about twi. Offer no $ while they are "in". But be there if they ever want to leave.
There may be one thing you can do though. Tell them to LISTEN to GOD when they see what they think are contradictions.... tell them to believe GOD is showing it to them.... that it's NOT just their natural mind senses talking to them and that GOD will talk to them just as much as anyone else.
Basiclly (sp) use the twi logic against twi! Reinforce their desire to serve God... and reinforce their "spiritual eyes" so that...
when the time comes for them to break away because the've relized twi's evil, they won't have to overcome pride to admit they made a mistake!
Think how many times pride has stood in the way of resolving a conflict. No one likes to admit they made a mistake. And when it comes to something you believe in as much as we did like twi... it's even harder.
So stay in touch with them even if they don't respond. And build them up so it will be easier for them to say... "You were SO right but I just couldn't see it until I was right in it." Or something like that... and good luck!
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TaylorCompany
Thanks for the great ideas! Since we left twi we have slowly gotten back our relationship with our kid. It has taken time, wisdom, and acceptance. The thing we have been trying to do is much of what all of you have said although we haven't gotten into too many confrontations. We let them know where we stand with God and give advice when asked and tell them what to consider.
It is encouraging to hear that the leadership at gunnison may be the ones that push them over the edge. They have good hearts and I think when they see the signs they will recognize them when it is in their face. It took a long time for them to want to hear why we left and if things are still the same, which I'm sure they are, they will be able to put the pieces together.
You guys (and gals) are great...we've been on the site many times over the years but haven't been involved. We'll keep you posted!
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A la prochaine
Taylor Company,
Recently I read Outandabout's story here on Greasespot on the MY STORY forum. That pretty much gives you a good taste of what the way corps was and I believe is still all about.
I know she was in the 8th corps ... but I have a feeling that the 'corps' of the program hasn't changed. Those running the program are basically still self-serving and evil.
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Belle
Hi TaylorCompany,
Welcome to the GSpot!
I can't remember now who wrote this, but it's very sage advice:
I highly recommend getting Steve Hassan's book on Freedom from Bondage: Helping People Think for Themselves.....or something along those lines. It is VERY helpful in how to speak to people "in" a cult to help remind them of who they were before they got involved and how to talk to their "authentic self". It's got good advice on the kinds of questions to ask and how to ask them, etc. It was invaluable to me and now my therapist has it.
:D-->
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