I think groups like AA, NA, ACOA, etc. are excellent. You just have to find the one you feel comfortable in. When I lived in NYC there were quite a few believers who were hardcore junkies and alcoholics - yes, really, in twigs. They loved God and Jesus Christ, but NA and AA kept them on the straight and narrow. I went to many NA or AA meetings with them. NA and AA is the only thing for many that can keep them sober. It was obvious that Christian principles, or let's even say, "spiritual principles" work for believer and unbeliever alike.
I grew up with one parent who is still an alcoholic to this day, plus I have family members who are. For the family members, rehab and meetings and wonderful sponsors are literally lifesavers.
When I was in the process of leaving TWI in NYC, I started talking with a pleasant young man at another firm and we somehow started talking about our parents' alcoholism and the effects it had had on us. He brought me to an ACOA meeting with him. It was ACOA (Adult Children of Alcholics), that for the first time in my life showed me, boundaries, limits, its ok to say no, that I was not weird, nor were my feelings weird, I was a survivor (you have to be tough to survive and abusive alcoholic parent growing up) and it also opened my eyes to what an incredibly dysfunctional family the corps was, with our dysfunctional VP leading the way. It was ACOA that opened my eyes and revealed some destructive co-dependent relationships I was in and gave me the strength to break with TWI. Since I had been in TWI since the age of 15, it was truly eye-opening. I think there are things in the physical realm that God showed me. After all, TWI was all about the "spiritual" realm, that life in the physical was in many ways ignored.
I see AA doing great work for a family member right now. For many people, AA, NA, etc. are literally life savers. It gets them honest about themselves, they must take responsibility for themselves - can't slough it off, they must make amends to those they have hurt, you have to throw off the "I am so great" and get humble and realize, you can't go it alone, etc.
Those of us who are not addictive personalities have absolutly no idea the hatred and self-loathing that also exists in the alcoholic, have no idea of the urges they must fight every day (don't say its devil spirit - its brain chemicals - its been proven). We just can never understand it. It is the only thing that for many junkies and alcoholics that works. The only hope they have. For those who seriously want to work it, I've seen too many great things it has done for people.
Hi, MJ. I admire people who can go to new places and meet new people, AND enjoy it.
You wrote, “it might be because you think that is the only way you can meet or be accepted.” Yes, it was. But thankfully I don’t feel that way anymore. Now my need to be accepted is more balanced and not as important as it used to be. I have grown to accept me for me and if others don’t, well, it is really no loss to either one of us.
I would be lying if I said others opinions of me don’t matter. Rottie, Wayfer Not! and Linda made my day when they acknowledged my return! That means that I meant something. There was a time when I would have been devastated if no one had. It would have been a great excuse to go hide my sorrows in a bottle. There were many bars where everyone knew my name and cared if I came or went.
I sought that. I sought to be accepted. But they didn’t know me. They knew me drinking. Socially, that is what we did. Socially, that is what I sought. When I quit, the common bond we had was taken away. When I took that away nothing was ever the same and I lost most everyone I felt comfortable with.
That is what I meant by, “Imagine if your relationship with then was based on eating steak dinners. Now imagine you have gone vegan.” Socially I wasn't accepted any more. If you crave that acceptance like I did, it is a great loss. Maybe that isn’t a good example. I guess you had to be there. :)-->
I get it I do i know my sister had great friendsin the bars and they cared abut her as long as she was dinking but now she is sober she doesnt miss them or they her . but that is true of any group really I had "cat" friends for a awhile till I no longer could spend the time doing the activities we did, I mean people change all the time and I have learned to go with the flow in life.
If I feel lonely I go find something or someone to hang out with and it is often by myself sometimesnot but I like being single I am truly a single person in my heart and life style so it is easy for me. Alcohol is never on the list of new experiences or people to meet. that is like tv they act like the way to meet people is with booze nah it isnt not really. I go to cat shows book stores huge flea market garden shops swimming hiking and I meet others.
I think others like me always. maybe because I like me . I wish I had more money to travel and meet other people!
People do not judge others for the most part except in a cult , honestly some of the most insecure people I ever met was in twi and the off shoot they cling together because they are afraid of who they really are it seems. a sinner and all that heheh well me to but god loved me enough to send his only Son so it was never a bad thing but a good thing people need to like thmeselves to like others and it would be difficult if you cant rmemeber what ya did or said by being under the influence. ya just forget? that is scary . thanks .
Hey WB, have you heard of "Celebrate Recovery"? It is a tremendous program started by Rick Warren the author of "Purpose Driven Life" and it is very similar to AA except that Jesus Christ is recognized as the higher power and instead of 12 steps(which is also recognized by the group) Celebrate Recovery is centered around the eight beatitudes. It has played an instrumental part in my recovery. People with all kinds of hurts, habits, and hangups gather every week to be with others who need healing and are seeking God's direction. Accountability is strongly encouraged and it also has been very effective for me. In our group I am the only "excultist" and it would be so great if I knew someone who really understood the pain inflicted by TWI. I notice that you are in Indy. I am too. Do you have any exwayers in your group? I would love to hear how AA has helped you.
bluesunday
quote:Originally posted by waterbuffalo:
Kit,
Interesting you bring this up now because I just told someone about Al-Anon which does the 12 steps also.
I go to Al-Anon and it is the ANSWER I have been looking for for all these years because it teaches HOW TO renew the mind. AA does the same.
Yes, I noticed at the very first meeting that the HOly Spirit was indeed present. Even though the name of Jesus isn't mentioned, probably 99% of the people are Christians and say so (and I'm in a pretty strict one--it's not against the rules to say you're a Christian or that you read the Bible). It is against the rules to preach. But, doesn't change the fact that people are helped greatly and the Lord is present.
AA was started by Christians and I don't disagree with their reasoning not to make it a Christian organization. Probably a lot of people have come to Christ through this organization because one of the steps to recovery is to call someone in the group when you need someone to talk to and almost everyone is a Christian so what are they gonna talk about?
What else? Oh, personally I don't have a problem with the terminology used, namely Higher Power. While reading _Of Plymouth Plantation_ recently about the Pilgrim's voyage to America and their efforts to settle here, I noticed that Bradford made reference to their Higher Power more than once and apparently everyone knew who that was (not Buddah, ha).
One point you mentioned that doesn't apply to AA or Al-Anon is "the 12-step programs probably can't get funding if they allow the use of Jesus Christ." They are actually self-supporting and probably self-propagating too! LOL. They are not allowed to accept outside funds. The basket is passed at every meeting and that's how they support themselves.
So, to summarize, I support them and recommend them highly, especially to anyone who has ever been in The Way.
Hey, please check your pt. I'd love to get together with you and discuss.
There are some very good Al-Anon meetings in Indy and as many have said, you just have to visit a lot and decide which or if any will work for you. Personally, I believe Al-Anon is the antidote for waybrain. lol.
P.S. Oh, also, they recommend that you attend 3 meetings before writing it off. Good thing, because at my first one, it looked so simple what they were doing and sharing that I thought it was Mickey Mouse. I didn't understand what they were doing.
It was later that I discovered the real healing begins when one begins to work the program and gets a sponsor (someone who has been in it longer than you have and can mentor you).
Al-Anon shows people HOW to change unhealthy thought patterns to healthy ones.
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Sunesis
I think groups like AA, NA, ACOA, etc. are excellent. You just have to find the one you feel comfortable in. When I lived in NYC there were quite a few believers who were hardcore junkies and alcoholics - yes, really, in twigs. They loved God and Jesus Christ, but NA and AA kept them on the straight and narrow. I went to many NA or AA meetings with them. NA and AA is the only thing for many that can keep them sober. It was obvious that Christian principles, or let's even say, "spiritual principles" work for believer and unbeliever alike.
I grew up with one parent who is still an alcoholic to this day, plus I have family members who are. For the family members, rehab and meetings and wonderful sponsors are literally lifesavers.
When I was in the process of leaving TWI in NYC, I started talking with a pleasant young man at another firm and we somehow started talking about our parents' alcoholism and the effects it had had on us. He brought me to an ACOA meeting with him. It was ACOA (Adult Children of Alcholics), that for the first time in my life showed me, boundaries, limits, its ok to say no, that I was not weird, nor were my feelings weird, I was a survivor (you have to be tough to survive and abusive alcoholic parent growing up) and it also opened my eyes to what an incredibly dysfunctional family the corps was, with our dysfunctional VP leading the way. It was ACOA that opened my eyes and revealed some destructive co-dependent relationships I was in and gave me the strength to break with TWI. Since I had been in TWI since the age of 15, it was truly eye-opening. I think there are things in the physical realm that God showed me. After all, TWI was all about the "spiritual" realm, that life in the physical was in many ways ignored.
I see AA doing great work for a family member right now. For many people, AA, NA, etc. are literally life savers. It gets them honest about themselves, they must take responsibility for themselves - can't slough it off, they must make amends to those they have hurt, you have to throw off the "I am so great" and get humble and realize, you can't go it alone, etc.
Those of us who are not addictive personalities have absolutly no idea the hatred and self-loathing that also exists in the alcoholic, have no idea of the urges they must fight every day (don't say its devil spirit - its brain chemicals - its been proven). We just can never understand it. It is the only thing that for many junkies and alcoholics that works. The only hope they have. For those who seriously want to work it, I've seen too many great things it has done for people.
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Shelly
((((Linda))))
Hi, MJ. I admire people who can go to new places and meet new people, AND enjoy it.
You wrote, “it might be because you think that is the only way you can meet or be accepted.” Yes, it was. But thankfully I don’t feel that way anymore. Now my need to be accepted is more balanced and not as important as it used to be. I have grown to accept me for me and if others don’t, well, it is really no loss to either one of us.
I would be lying if I said others opinions of me don’t matter. Rottie, Wayfer Not! and Linda made my day when they acknowledged my return! That means that I meant something. There was a time when I would have been devastated if no one had. It would have been a great excuse to go hide my sorrows in a bottle. There were many bars where everyone knew my name and cared if I came or went.
I sought that. I sought to be accepted. But they didn’t know me. They knew me drinking. Socially, that is what we did. Socially, that is what I sought. When I quit, the common bond we had was taken away. When I took that away nothing was ever the same and I lost most everyone I felt comfortable with.
That is what I meant by, “Imagine if your relationship with then was based on eating steak dinners. Now imagine you have gone vegan.” Socially I wasn't accepted any more. If you crave that acceptance like I did, it is a great loss. Maybe that isn’t a good example. I guess you had to be there.
:)-->
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mj412
I get it I do i know my sister had great friendsin the bars and they cared abut her as long as she was dinking but now she is sober she doesnt miss them or they her . but that is true of any group really I had "cat" friends for a awhile till I no longer could spend the time doing the activities we did, I mean people change all the time and I have learned to go with the flow in life.
If I feel lonely I go find something or someone to hang out with and it is often by myself sometimesnot but I like being single I am truly a single person in my heart and life style so it is easy for me. Alcohol is never on the list of new experiences or people to meet. that is like tv they act like the way to meet people is with booze nah it isnt not really. I go to cat shows book stores huge flea market garden shops swimming hiking and I meet others.
I think others like me always. maybe because I like me . I wish I had more money to travel and meet other people!
People do not judge others for the most part except in a cult , honestly some of the most insecure people I ever met was in twi and the off shoot they cling together because they are afraid of who they really are it seems. a sinner and all that heheh well me to but god loved me enough to send his only Son so it was never a bad thing but a good thing people need to like thmeselves to like others and it would be difficult if you cant rmemeber what ya did or said by being under the influence. ya just forget? that is scary . thanks .
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bluesunday
Hey WB, have you heard of "Celebrate Recovery"? It is a tremendous program started by Rick Warren the author of "Purpose Driven Life" and it is very similar to AA except that Jesus Christ is recognized as the higher power and instead of 12 steps(which is also recognized by the group) Celebrate Recovery is centered around the eight beatitudes. It has played an instrumental part in my recovery. People with all kinds of hurts, habits, and hangups gather every week to be with others who need healing and are seeking God's direction. Accountability is strongly encouraged and it also has been very effective for me. In our group I am the only "excultist" and it would be so great if I knew someone who really understood the pain inflicted by TWI. I notice that you are in Indy. I am too. Do you have any exwayers in your group? I would love to hear how AA has helped you.
bluesunday
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waterbuffalo
BlueSunday,
Hey, please check your pt. I'd love to get together with you and discuss.
There are some very good Al-Anon meetings in Indy and as many have said, you just have to visit a lot and decide which or if any will work for you. Personally, I believe Al-Anon is the antidote for waybrain. lol.
WB
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waterbuffalo
P.S. Oh, also, they recommend that you attend 3 meetings before writing it off. Good thing, because at my first one, it looked so simple what they were doing and sharing that I thought it was Mickey Mouse. I didn't understand what they were doing.
It was later that I discovered the real healing begins when one begins to work the program and gets a sponsor (someone who has been in it longer than you have and can mentor you).
Al-Anon shows people HOW to change unhealthy thought patterns to healthy ones.
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