about ex JW's

[Galen]

Tom-

“. . . it really sounds like "leadership" became hard hearted and mean spirited as the years went on. Not ALL leadership, but certainly a majority.”

Well said, thank you.

“I am NOT corpse, and from my own personal experience the only people that I ever saw within TWI who did hurt others, or mis-use others, or get into a believer's face and scream was Way-Corpse-grads.”

“That is truly a sad thing. See, I'm not disagreeing with you, I never have on that issue, I only disagree when you take that experience and then make the statement "ALL corps are". “

I don’t believe that I said ‘ALL’. From my personal experiences the only people I ever saw do a WC on a believer was Way-Corpse-grads. I certainly never met ‘all’ WC; I truly don’t think that I would have ever wanted to. Nor do I know whether ‘all’ WC hurt others, or mis-used others, or got into a believer's face and screamed; thus I did not say that ‘all’ WC did such.

From my personal experiences ‘only’ WC did such however.

Consider the two sub-sets. There are believers I will call set ‘B’, within set ‘B’ are some nice people and some not-nice, some who need help and some who help others. If we then introduce a second sub-set I will call set ‘WC’, in it what do we see? The above listed behaviors? Certainly. From among set ‘WC’ are exists a smaller sub-set, called ‘WC whom I have met, or dealt with’. Now are there others in set ‘WC’ that I have never dealt with? Certainly. However from within sub-set ‘WC whom I have met, or dealt with’ All those behaviors are present at least to a 90 percentile.

“ “ When I have stated this on Greasespot Cafe, I have been amazed at the out-lash from many posters here. “ “

“The "outlash" you speak of that I've seen was for taking your personal experience with some Corps and carte blanche applying it to ALL corps.”

Some, but no not all.

Anytime that anything is said in truth and honesty, which tarnishes WC, (at least in previous posts) there are responses from many who take those posts personally amusing that it was describing them.

“I think you'd agree that applying your personal experience with individuals across every individual in the program doesn't make it true or fair.”

Fine, my sampling was taken from 1981 through to 2001, in 3 different nations, and numerous states and cities through out America. It was a very limited sampling.

“I can certainly see why you personally have an ill feeling towards Corps people, it's based upon your experience and it's human nature to think that way. I'm thinking that a large number of the active posters here who were corps would not fall into that category.”

Very well.

“ “ That Oh, no they were not responsible for their actions, and ALL the abuse was from VPW / LCM.” “

“Really? That is what you "heard" from those discussions? I guess something got lost in communication. You know I participated in (and read) many of the discussions you speak of. I really do not recall anyone ever saying, "they were not responsible for their actions". What I do remember people trying to communicate was "they learned these behaviors from VPW & LCM." And I think the reason (JMO) that people kept focusing on the aspect that they learned how to act from VPW & LCM was because of a perception that you hold VPW in such high esteem.”

“At least that's where I was coming from (and I think a lot of others were as well). We couldn't understand your statements blanketing ALL Corps with a high level of disdain while perceiving that you still held VPW in such high esteem. I don't ever think anyone said "Corps were not responsible for their actions", if they did they're wrong. What I heard being said was "they learned the behavior at the feet of "the teacher" and his successor.”

And were following those examples regardless of what they read and studied from the Bible.

“I notice that you no longer have "University of Life Grad" in your signature.”

I was PT’ed that it offended others.

” “ My exposure was fairly limited having only been a follower of TWI for 18 years.” “

“I'm thinking you want people to take this as a sarcastic comment.”

Could be, while I was involved with TWI over a long period of time, I also had very limited contact with the inner-workings at HQ, and WC assignments, and policies, etc.

Was I an ‘innie’? Was I a long-term follower? These are terms that open to perspective.

I don’t think that mine was such an ‘unusual’ life. Perhaps here, now among GS’ers there are very few bubble-heads, there are a few more veterans however.

From my perspective, twigs on military bases were often really hopping, Lots of classes, and lots of twigs. Like many other service members, I traveled and could call Ohio to get a local number for a close twig, anywhere I went. Whether I was going to be in a place for a 5-day school, a 2day port call, a 6-month school, or a 3-year tour.

To you this is ‘un-usual’? Fine. That was the ministry that I was a part of.

In a given area, if you were there at the right time (or wrong time) you might catch a limb meeting, and would end up bringing new guys to it. There we would see WC. Otherwise in most cases, we could walk into twigs in most areas and never see one.

“... maybe that's why you were able to put up with it for so long.”

That and I really enjoyed coordinating twigs, running PFAL classes, and helping people.

“ “ Though I have been forced to be more apologetic as anytime we speak the truth about how Way-Corpse-Nazis hurt the body-of-Christ it does offend them so.” “

“Galen, I don't think anyone wants to "force you to be more apologetic"... I think (as I've stated a few times above) that EXCorps get offended when you use the ALL word.”

Fine.

“I think a lot of folks here respect you and your opinions. I know that I do. Part of the reason I've been able to gain that respect is through reading your experiences. You share your experience.”

Which was a large part of what Coordinating a twig was all about.

We study the Bible; we share what we have studied. When we have attempted applying what we have learned and have gained experiences, we share those experiences too.

“That often entails relating some aspect of the military because that was a part of your life. I think it's much the same for EXCorps. It was a part of their life. Much the same way you cannot share a story without mentioning that you were "on base" or "under the sea" they cannot share a story either without saying "when in residence" or "when on staff". It's the perception.”

Very well.

“If you want to think they're setting themselves apart "carry(ing) with them the 'identity' of being separate from an average believer" because they mention these things, so be it. I guess if I had the mindset that ALL Corps were bad, that "the only people that I ever saw within TWI who did hurt others, or mis-use others, or get into a believer's face and scream was Way-Corpse-grads" I'd probably "read" things into what they post as well.”

Hmm, could be.

Again, I don’t mean that ‘ALL’ WC were bad, only maybe 90% of those that I have had contact with. That is not all, just the over-whelming majority, but not all. Bonnie and I can name four that seemed to be trying to be good Christians.

Certainly from reading here on GS, and the previous version of GS, it would appear that none here were of that type.

“Do you consider this an "outlash"? I sincerely hope not.”

Don’t at all.

I am rather surprised actually that yours was the only response so far.

Bless you.

[Tom Strange]

Thanks Galen, take care... "see ya" around.