Zshot: Well, this one has gotten kind of nasty, so I wouldn't read it if you're looking for the old "satorian insight." However, for purely educational purposes about how to fight on the Web, it's not a bad example. It didn't take more than a couple of pages for the opposition to be reduced to mere "rebuttal by obscenity".
For those who don't want to visit the site, here's a synopsis.
Chuckk3 begins a thread, The Holy Bible is Bull$h*t! What are his reasons for believing the Bible is bull$h*t?
1. Jesus himself said so.
2. God is a "tyrannical monster."
3. Some (i.e. Zixar) at GreaseSpot have made the Bible into a "cheap, dirty idol."
JanH agrees, adding that the Bible cannot be true because it does not declare itself to be true.
Sudo agrees.
Miscellaneous greetings, questions, and irrelevant observations.
houseisarockin wants to know Chuckk3's reasons for posting such an inflammatory thread topic.
Chuckk3 says he needed to. "Besides you can tell the idol worshippers from the sincere if you use offensive tactics."
Huh?
housisarockin values honesty and wonders aloud why Chuckk3 disregards it.
Chuckk3 offers a self-serving and convoluted justification for his "lies."
Ga-Darach and the ManifestationofDan respond to the original thread topic.
Chuckk3 tells them to f*** off.
satori001 asks Chuckk3 to explain his "idol worshippers" statement.
Chuckk3 tells him to f*** off.
satori001 asks again for clarification.
JanH, not bothering to follow the dialogue, sees a cyber war brewing and wants to jump in, randoming choosing a side to flame.
satori001 repeats the question (paraphrased): "How can the use of 'offensive tactics' distinguish between an 'idolator' and a sincere worshipper?"
Chuckk3 tells him to f*** off, and adds that no one has "free will."
RefinersFire understands, and agrees with, Chuck's point. RF has confused "free will" (the ability to make a choice) with the ability to control every variable that influences that choice.
satori001 again summarizes Chuckk3's argument and asks again for clarification.
Cynic, responding to JanH, notes that a thing is true regardless of whether or not it is recognized to be true.
JanH responds to Cynic that the Bible cannot be independently verified, therefore it is not true.
Various posters offer outrageous Bible interpretations, and speculate on who is and who is not involved in a cult.
Thelma defends Chuckk3. Houseisarockin defends satori001. JanH insults satori001. Pages and pages of swearing, insults, and thread derailments follow.
Cynic repeats his point. Truth is truth regardless of what is declared to be true.
JanH asks Cynic for evidence (if he could have troubled himself to actually read the thread before responding, he would have known it was already provided).
More random insults follow.
satori001 insults Chuckk3's now deceased brother in order to make the point that Chuckk3 is actually using his own recent loss as an excuse (rather than a reason) for his own hostility.
I agree with his point, but . . . well . . . his wording could have been a little more delicate.
Thelma makes a public announcement that she will hereafter "ignore" satori001, and encourages everyone else to do the same. Chuckk3 follows suit. JanH (who has completely abandoned the thread topic) concurs, but gives no indication that he actually plans to do so.
One little note of irony: JanH comments on satori001's use of the "royal we," which I can't find evidence of in satori001's posts, although JanH flaunts his own exalted position at JWO by frequently speaking for others.
Yucky zix, I am afraid that I would be out of my league with that bunch... The thread about you and paw is awfull.....How dissapointing that they cannot see things at gspot any more honestly than that.
Just one point of clarification, laleo. While Chuck characterized my post as an insult to his deceased brother, the object of my remark was Chuck, and certainly not his brother. I think I was fairly clear.
I couldn't find the "royal we" either.
Why would I spend time at an ex-Jehovah's Witnesses' site? I have no idea. Just for kicks maybe. Refiner's Fire made it sound both challenging and interesting. I found that to be true, to a point, and also both amusing and disappointing.
The lack of moderation is a two-edged sword. You'll get the dregs who believe freedom of speech was the Founding Fathers' desire that we should all use the vilest language we can, but you'll get some very creative people too, who flourish in that same freedom. It isn't for the faint of heart, but there are plenty of threads which abide by all standards of civility. Like here, everyone can choose to read and post somewhere else.
I have no intention of bringing that thread over here, and should any participant from JWO attempt to do so I will not respond. The admins can handle it.
My sentence wasn't worded well. I stand corrected. Yes, you were clear.
As far as the unmoderated site goes, I can understand the attraction. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a lot of evidence of the "creative people . . . who flourish in that same freedom" (other than you, of course), not that I've spent a lot of time searching for them over there.
Anyway, I didn't mean to drag the topic over here, although I am curious why Zixar hasn't posted there, considering his (understandable) interest in the goings-on.
laleo/sudo: There's little point in my going over there, because all it would do is give the ones who've been banned something fresh with which to bang on their cages and screech. I've found it more amusing to just sit back and watch them vent their spleens at nothing.
Besides, I don't really have all that much against the JWO posters anyway. I figured that after
had run out their little toilet-humor tirades against Pawtucket and me, their true natures would come out and inevitably irritate one of that site's kung-fu masters who would give them an old-school flaming the likes of which they'd never seen before--and this time, they wouldn't have me to blame for getting their arses handed to them. ;)-->
But so far, the JWOs' skill has been questionable. Satori's just been playing with them, and they haven't put up a coordinated defense yet. It should be interesting to see how it plays out, or amusing, at the very least.
At least Refiner started questioning ***** and **** ****'s ridiculous assertion that I was somehow "evil" and that "Pawtucket is Zixar's b***h", but he apparently swallowed R***y's "version" of events and let it go, for now.
satori: Thanks for the props, BTW. I'll take the grudging respect of an opponent over a fair-weather "ally" any day.
...Various people try to take the blame for being the first to mention Chuck's brother on JWO (but, of course, it was Chuck himself who first brought it up over here, by using it as a "victim card". Anyone who would hide behind a personal tragedy as an excuse for antisocial behavior deserves everything they get. You can't sink much lower.)
...Rocky reveals he knows I'm reading the thread. (Duh.)
Ya know... is this how you get around the "no cross-site posting" guideline? (can't remember if it was invoked as a rule or if it was just something we kind of agreed on)
Let it go. Those who care to watch a flame war will go over and look for themselves. Those who don't don't really need the updates.
You're absolutely correct, Tom. Those who want to watch a flame war will go and look for themselves, and those who want to know about Momentus will sign up for themselves, and those who want to know about The Way will take some of their classes for themselves, and go to fellowship for themselves. So what's the point of this or any other conversation?
This is the sort of "censorship" that gets on my nerves at GreaseSpot. If I want to pull up a seat beside Zixar and offer some commentary on the show, what is it to you? Those who don't need the updates won't read the updates. After the first post, whoever is interested will participate, and whoever is not, will not. Why is it any more complicated than that? Why do you have a stake in what I talk about or comment on? I understand and can accept reasonable limits -- like no profanity, harassment, stalking, etc. But I don't think censoring a thread about the anatomy of a flame war, using a specific one as an example, breaks any rules.
Zixar: If you haven't been intimidated into silence, what is the game strategy? I haven't quite figured out what sport I'm watching, whether this is one on one, like boxing, or a team sport. What's your take?
Pawtucket, I have cut and past only that which is my posts from JWO and if you chose to delete this post due to my going against your desires for this board please do so. Respectfully submitted:
(addressee left blank)
My argument with him (Chuck for context for you GS folks) was the lie, and since I know you are reading you would have noticed we have settled that with agreement neither would want to be lied to. Secondarily I told him I was not offended by his statement in the first place, if he did not believe it I was not outright told that by him. Thirdly I acknowledged his recent death, even told him amidst our "debating" how sorry I was for him. Fourthly I suggested he step back and chill for awhile, he responded to me within minutes obviously choosing not to do so. From that point on we have been "debating" our difference of opinion. If he does not agree with me as to where we are presently no doubt he will inform us all.
As for following him, and just harassing him because I don't agree with him, and why would I a church lady with my skirt up over my head do so well...he started this thread, he wanted the debate, which is his free will. Would it have been better if I would have just kept silent and not addressed him, which is obviously not what he was wanting of us?
I would love to continue to engage in debate with him when he gives me something to debate, and thus far with me he has chosen to do so. But with Satori he has chosen to give the man all the room he wants to rip him a new ***hole. And I am amazed at the restraint he has used in not doing so. Has he so little knowledge of Satori that he does not actually realize he is skilled at stunning a person momentarily until they can get their bearings as to whether they were just kissed or punched? Satori is a debater, Chuck is a formable opponent but for some reason is not choosing to engage like one.
(end of post regarding this topic)
As for my being one that claimed responsibility for bringing the death point up (which I did first on that board), I did it to help elevate heart ache for a fellow poster that thought she was responsible for bringing it there.
Also I am sickened by the verbiage regarding Zixar and Pawtucket and have stated so on that board.
Well I've finally taken my first peek at the other site. Must say I'm not impressed. I don't care for censorship but that place exemplifies why it is sometimes needed.
I'm also totally sickened by all the "back stabbing" for lack of a better term. Why must one post here about people and issues from over there? and vice verse? Seems pretty chicken s**t to me.
The entire experience has left me feeling very nauseated.
Okay, here's my quick analysis on the story so far:
1)Chuck still hadn't vented his full mad-on when he got banned, so of course he was going to start something nasty on JWO the first chance he got. Problem was, without me there to validate his tantrum, his conversation was one-sided. While the JWO folks pride themselves on their freedom of speech, even they would get quickly tired of people coming in and complaining about things the JWOs had no real referent for. You can see this where Refiner starts questioning exactly what Chuck and Mary Cate could base their potty-mouthed spew about Pawtucket and me upon.
2)Satori posted a cogent, pointed rebuttal of their scatological rants. He's shrewd enough to know this would not convince anyone there, but it would lay a foundation to show he wasn't the type whose sole argument is "Did not/did too!"
3)JanH jumped in for no apparent reason apart from picking a fight and made what appeared to be a confident argument, but unfortunately, most of what he said was based on sheer assertion, not on enough solid fact. Now, anyone around here should know that you just don't do that kind of condescending pontification around satori without him calling you on it.
4) JanH could have opted for a logic defense, burying the argument under a mound of minutiae of supporting evidence. Yet, that takes time, and apparently Jan didn't want to take that time. He underestimated satori, and countered instead with a very lame dismissal. Bad move. Satori feints with an ad hominem along the "Eurotrash" line, and Jan falls for it. His later responses have been nothing but obscene. Jan's "intellectual" credibility is now diminished.
5) Meanwhile, the Banned GSC-ers keep egging it on, but Chuck made a colossal mistake in trying to play his brother's tragic death as a "victim card". This never works in flame wars. In fact, it always backfires, unless the "victim" uses it in tandem with an apology to withdraw from the conflict. The Victim Card gives your opponent a HUGE easily-accessible button to push, and of course, Satori pushed it. Now, it does cause a bunch of folks on the periphery to flock around the Victim, but it's only a short-term gain. In the long run, the supporters discover the Victim Card was insincere, and worse, that it's not the victim's only tool for manipulative insincerity.
6) Back to the JWOs, they could use a bit of teamwork, but right now they're acting like the extras in a bad kung fu movie. Run in one at a time, and get slapped mercilessly about by the protagonist. Jan needs to ignore the ad hominem triggers and get back on track with solid refutation that he can back up if pushed. LongHauler needs to stop threatening and start swinging, if he's actually going to take part. It may have started to dawn on him that what I said in the first post about satori being immune to vulgar insult was actually the truth. There isn't a single four-letter word or combination of same that will faze satori in the slightest, and since they have no shock value, LongHauler will actually make himself look like an idiot if that's all he'll bring to the fight. Satori won't have to do anything.
7)Refiner's_Fire gives the impression that he doesn't really know which way to jump on this one. Right now, board loyalty is winning out, and satori may have pushed the ad hominem feints a bit too far to convince Refiner he's not a one-trick poster. In order to start garnering local support, Satori is going to have to let Jan start debating him instead of insulting him, then switch to his sociologic skills to fence the Norwegian into a corner. Since Jan has over 5000+ posts on JWO, he's bound to have made a few enemies over there. In order for them to come out of the woodwork, satori needs to take Jan down a peg at his own game.
8)I once thought satori was in over his head there, but so far, he hasn't even broken a sweat. I'm kind of surprised, because surely JWO arguments aren't solely decided on who can run together the longest cussin' string. I guess we'll see.
Now, am I right about all this? Well, who knows? No one's 100% predictable, but let's face it--if you've watched football for 20 years, you can pretty much see how the game is going to go by the end of the first quarter. It's the same with flame wars.
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rascal
Hey zix, can you post a link or an addy?
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Zshot
I used to enjoy reading some of Satori's posts.
However, I don't have any desire to go the jwo site.
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Zixar
rascal: Here's a link.
The thread is called (unsurprisingly) "The Holy Bible Is B-------".
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Zixar
Zshot: Well, this one has gotten kind of nasty, so I wouldn't read it if you're looking for the old "satorian insight." However, for purely educational purposes about how to fight on the Web, it's not a bad example. It didn't take more than a couple of pages for the opposition to be reduced to mere "rebuttal by obscenity".
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Pirate1974
Interesting site.
How come nobody ever thought of starting a thread titled "Design Your Own Dildo" over here?
I guess we're just not hip.
-->
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Zixar
Well, now Doug has jumped into the ring, too, threatening massive flame retaliation. Too early to tell if it's bluster, bluff, or serious...
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Jim
Well, there's another entry for the dirty word list. I guess you can always spell it dild0.
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laleo
Hey, thanks for the link, Zixar.
For those who don't want to visit the site, here's a synopsis.
Chuckk3 begins a thread, The Holy Bible is Bull$h*t! What are his reasons for believing the Bible is bull$h*t?
1. Jesus himself said so.
2. God is a "tyrannical monster."
3. Some (i.e. Zixar) at GreaseSpot have made the Bible into a "cheap, dirty idol."
JanH agrees, adding that the Bible cannot be true because it does not declare itself to be true.
Sudo agrees.
Miscellaneous greetings, questions, and irrelevant observations.
houseisarockin wants to know Chuckk3's reasons for posting such an inflammatory thread topic.
Chuckk3 says he needed to. "Besides you can tell the idol worshippers from the sincere if you use offensive tactics."
Huh?
housisarockin values honesty and wonders aloud why Chuckk3 disregards it.
Chuckk3 offers a self-serving and convoluted justification for his "lies."
Ga-Darach and the ManifestationofDan respond to the original thread topic.
Chuckk3 tells them to f*** off.
satori001 asks Chuckk3 to explain his "idol worshippers" statement.
Chuckk3 tells him to f*** off.
satori001 asks again for clarification.
JanH, not bothering to follow the dialogue, sees a cyber war brewing and wants to jump in, randoming choosing a side to flame.
satori001 repeats the question (paraphrased): "How can the use of 'offensive tactics' distinguish between an 'idolator' and a sincere worshipper?"
Chuckk3 tells him to f*** off, and adds that no one has "free will."
RefinersFire understands, and agrees with, Chuck's point. RF has confused "free will" (the ability to make a choice) with the ability to control every variable that influences that choice.
satori001 again summarizes Chuckk3's argument and asks again for clarification.
Cynic, responding to JanH, notes that a thing is true regardless of whether or not it is recognized to be true.
JanH responds to Cynic that the Bible cannot be independently verified, therefore it is not true.
Various posters offer outrageous Bible interpretations, and speculate on who is and who is not involved in a cult.
Thelma defends Chuckk3. Houseisarockin defends satori001. JanH insults satori001. Pages and pages of swearing, insults, and thread derailments follow.
Cynic repeats his point. Truth is truth regardless of what is declared to be true.
JanH asks Cynic for evidence (if he could have troubled himself to actually read the thread before responding, he would have known it was already provided).
More random insults follow.
satori001 insults Chuckk3's now deceased brother in order to make the point that Chuckk3 is actually using his own recent loss as an excuse (rather than a reason) for his own hostility.
I agree with his point, but . . . well . . . his wording could have been a little more delicate.
Thelma makes a public announcement that she will hereafter "ignore" satori001, and encourages everyone else to do the same. Chuckk3 follows suit. JanH (who has completely abandoned the thread topic) concurs, but gives no indication that he actually plans to do so.
One little note of irony: JanH comments on satori001's use of the "royal we," which I can't find evidence of in satori001's posts, although JanH flaunts his own exalted position at JWO by frequently speaking for others.
So, Zixar, why are you here and not there?
Edited by laleoLink to comment
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rascal
Yucky zix, I am afraid that I would be out of my league with that bunch... The thread about you and paw is awfull.....How dissapointing that they cannot see things at gspot any more honestly than that.
I feel like I need a shower.
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Sudo
Zix,
Why is it you aren't posting over there? I know you and Refiner aren't getting along but that kind of thing hasn't stopped you before.
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satori001
Just one point of clarification, laleo. While Chuck characterized my post as an insult to his deceased brother, the object of my remark was Chuck, and certainly not his brother. I think I was fairly clear.
I couldn't find the "royal we" either.
Why would I spend time at an ex-Jehovah's Witnesses' site? I have no idea. Just for kicks maybe. Refiner's Fire made it sound both challenging and interesting. I found that to be true, to a point, and also both amusing and disappointing.
The lack of moderation is a two-edged sword. You'll get the dregs who believe freedom of speech was the Founding Fathers' desire that we should all use the vilest language we can, but you'll get some very creative people too, who flourish in that same freedom. It isn't for the faint of heart, but there are plenty of threads which abide by all standards of civility. Like here, everyone can choose to read and post somewhere else.
I have no intention of bringing that thread over here, and should any participant from JWO attempt to do so I will not respond. The admins can handle it.
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laleo
satori,
My sentence wasn't worded well. I stand corrected. Yes, you were clear.
As far as the unmoderated site goes, I can understand the attraction. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a lot of evidence of the "creative people . . . who flourish in that same freedom" (other than you, of course), not that I've spent a lot of time searching for them over there.
Anyway, I didn't mean to drag the topic over here, although I am curious why Zixar hasn't posted there, considering his (understandable) interest in the goings-on.
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Steve!
QamiSatori, it looks as if you and Zixar have reached an understanding.
This is a good thing.
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Zixar
laleo/sudo: There's little point in my going over there, because all it would do is give the ones who've been banned something fresh with which to bang on their cages and screech. I've found it more amusing to just sit back and watch them vent their spleens at nothing.
Besides, I don't really have all that much against the JWO posters anyway. I figured that after
had run out their little toilet-humor tirades against Pawtucket and me, their true natures would come out and inevitably irritate one of that site's kung-fu masters who would give them an old-school flaming the likes of which they'd never seen before--and this time, they wouldn't have me to blame for getting their arses handed to them.
;)-->
But so far, the JWOs' skill has been questionable. Satori's just been playing with them, and they haven't put up a coordinated defense yet. It should be interesting to see how it plays out, or amusing, at the very least.
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Zixar
At least Refiner started questioning ***** and **** ****'s ridiculous assertion that I was somehow "evil" and that "Pawtucket is Zixar's b***h", but he apparently swallowed R***y's "version" of events and let it go, for now.
satori: Thanks for the props, BTW. I'll take the grudging respect of an opponent over a fair-weather "ally" any day.
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
Welcome back, (Satori) your dreams were your ticket out..........
:D-->
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Zixar
Updating...
...Various people try to take the blame for being the first to mention Chuck's brother on JWO (but, of course, it was Chuck himself who first brought it up over here, by using it as a "victim card". Anyone who would hide behind a personal tragedy as an excuse for antisocial behavior deserves everything they get. You can't sink much lower.)
...Rocky reveals he knows I'm reading the thread. (Duh.)
...More threats, but nothing backed up, yet.
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Tom Strange
Ya know... is this how you get around the "no cross-site posting" guideline? (can't remember if it was invoked as a rule or if it was just something we kind of agreed on)
Let it go. Those who care to watch a flame war will go over and look for themselves. Those who don't don't really need the updates.
What's the point?
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Zixar
Tom: Good point.
Anyone who still wants to keep tabs on it, please go read it yourself.
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laleo
You're absolutely correct, Tom. Those who want to watch a flame war will go and look for themselves, and those who want to know about Momentus will sign up for themselves, and those who want to know about The Way will take some of their classes for themselves, and go to fellowship for themselves. So what's the point of this or any other conversation?
This is the sort of "censorship" that gets on my nerves at GreaseSpot. If I want to pull up a seat beside Zixar and offer some commentary on the show, what is it to you? Those who don't need the updates won't read the updates. After the first post, whoever is interested will participate, and whoever is not, will not. Why is it any more complicated than that? Why do you have a stake in what I talk about or comment on? I understand and can accept reasonable limits -- like no profanity, harassment, stalking, etc. But I don't think censoring a thread about the anatomy of a flame war, using a specific one as an example, breaks any rules.
Zixar: If you haven't been intimidated into silence, what is the game strategy? I haven't quite figured out what sport I'm watching, whether this is one on one, like boxing, or a team sport. What's your take?
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houseisarockin
Pawtucket, I have cut and past only that which is my posts from JWO and if you chose to delete this post due to my going against your desires for this board please do so. Respectfully submitted:
(addressee left blank)
My argument with him (Chuck for context for you GS folks) was the lie, and since I know you are reading you would have noticed we have settled that with agreement neither would want to be lied to. Secondarily I told him I was not offended by his statement in the first place, if he did not believe it I was not outright told that by him. Thirdly I acknowledged his recent death, even told him amidst our "debating" how sorry I was for him. Fourthly I suggested he step back and chill for awhile, he responded to me within minutes obviously choosing not to do so. From that point on we have been "debating" our difference of opinion. If he does not agree with me as to where we are presently no doubt he will inform us all.
As for following him, and just harassing him because I don't agree with him, and why would I a church lady with my skirt up over my head do so well...he started this thread, he wanted the debate, which is his free will. Would it have been better if I would have just kept silent and not addressed him, which is obviously not what he was wanting of us?
I would love to continue to engage in debate with him when he gives me something to debate, and thus far with me he has chosen to do so. But with Satori he has chosen to give the man all the room he wants to rip him a new ***hole. And I am amazed at the restraint he has used in not doing so. Has he so little knowledge of Satori that he does not actually realize he is skilled at stunning a person momentarily until they can get their bearings as to whether they were just kissed or punched? Satori is a debater, Chuck is a formable opponent but for some reason is not choosing to engage like one.
(end of post regarding this topic)
As for my being one that claimed responsibility for bringing the death point up (which I did first on that board), I did it to help elevate heart ache for a fellow poster that thought she was responsible for bringing it there.
Also I am sickened by the verbiage regarding Zixar and Pawtucket and have stated so on that board.
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Abigail
Well I've finally taken my first peek at the other site. Must say I'm not impressed. I don't care for censorship but that place exemplifies why it is sometimes needed.
I'm also totally sickened by all the "back stabbing" for lack of a better term. Why must one post here about people and issues from over there? and vice verse? Seems pretty chicken s**t to me.
The entire experience has left me feeling very nauseated.
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Tom Strange
Laleo,
Firstly: Censorship? hardly... I posted my thoughts on the "thing"... same as you, and you cry "censorship"?
Secondly: And I wasn't trying to "intimidate" Zixar nor do I believe he took it that way, nor do I believe he was intimidated.
Thirdly: As for your "other points"... whatever.
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Zixar
laleo: A sport? Oh, why not...
Okay, here's my quick analysis on the story so far:
1)Chuck still hadn't vented his full mad-on when he got banned, so of course he was going to start something nasty on JWO the first chance he got. Problem was, without me there to validate his tantrum, his conversation was one-sided. While the JWO folks pride themselves on their freedom of speech, even they would get quickly tired of people coming in and complaining about things the JWOs had no real referent for. You can see this where Refiner starts questioning exactly what Chuck and Mary Cate could base their potty-mouthed spew about Pawtucket and me upon.
2)Satori posted a cogent, pointed rebuttal of their scatological rants. He's shrewd enough to know this would not convince anyone there, but it would lay a foundation to show he wasn't the type whose sole argument is "Did not/did too!"
3)JanH jumped in for no apparent reason apart from picking a fight and made what appeared to be a confident argument, but unfortunately, most of what he said was based on sheer assertion, not on enough solid fact. Now, anyone around here should know that you just don't do that kind of condescending pontification around satori without him calling you on it.
4) JanH could have opted for a logic defense, burying the argument under a mound of minutiae of supporting evidence. Yet, that takes time, and apparently Jan didn't want to take that time. He underestimated satori, and countered instead with a very lame dismissal. Bad move. Satori feints with an ad hominem along the "Eurotrash" line, and Jan falls for it. His later responses have been nothing but obscene. Jan's "intellectual" credibility is now diminished.
5) Meanwhile, the Banned GSC-ers keep egging it on, but Chuck made a colossal mistake in trying to play his brother's tragic death as a "victim card". This never works in flame wars. In fact, it always backfires, unless the "victim" uses it in tandem with an apology to withdraw from the conflict. The Victim Card gives your opponent a HUGE easily-accessible button to push, and of course, Satori pushed it. Now, it does cause a bunch of folks on the periphery to flock around the Victim, but it's only a short-term gain. In the long run, the supporters discover the Victim Card was insincere, and worse, that it's not the victim's only tool for manipulative insincerity.
6) Back to the JWOs, they could use a bit of teamwork, but right now they're acting like the extras in a bad kung fu movie. Run in one at a time, and get slapped mercilessly about by the protagonist. Jan needs to ignore the ad hominem triggers and get back on track with solid refutation that he can back up if pushed. LongHauler needs to stop threatening and start swinging, if he's actually going to take part. It may have started to dawn on him that what I said in the first post about satori being immune to vulgar insult was actually the truth. There isn't a single four-letter word or combination of same that will faze satori in the slightest, and since they have no shock value, LongHauler will actually make himself look like an idiot if that's all he'll bring to the fight. Satori won't have to do anything.
7)Refiner's_Fire gives the impression that he doesn't really know which way to jump on this one. Right now, board loyalty is winning out, and satori may have pushed the ad hominem feints a bit too far to convince Refiner he's not a one-trick poster. In order to start garnering local support, Satori is going to have to let Jan start debating him instead of insulting him, then switch to his sociologic skills to fence the Norwegian into a corner. Since Jan has over 5000+ posts on JWO, he's bound to have made a few enemies over there. In order for them to come out of the woodwork, satori needs to take Jan down a peg at his own game.
8)I once thought satori was in over his head there, but so far, he hasn't even broken a sweat. I'm kind of surprised, because surely JWO arguments aren't solely decided on who can run together the longest cussin' string. I guess we'll see.
Now, am I right about all this? Well, who knows? No one's 100% predictable, but let's face it--if you've watched football for 20 years, you can pretty much see how the game is going to go by the end of the first quarter. It's the same with flame wars.
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