P-Mosh Thanks for your comments. Sorry it took me so long to get back to them.
you said
quote: While I do understand where you are coming from, I see it from the other side as well. TWI is a Christian organization, and to me, it represents a lot that I see wrong with Christianity. The churches I attended with other family members growing up were just as bad, whether Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran, or whatever. I also feel that my time in TWI made me aware enough of the bible to be able to determine what I feel is wrong or right about it.
The point I am trying to make is that what some people consider to be the sins of TWI, I consider all of Christianity to be guilty of to some degree.
I agree with you. I Think "standard Churches" are businesses. (My opinion about all this is lengthy, I type about 12 wpm, and it is late and I am tired!! I have meant to start a thread about this, and will when I get back from my vacation. For now, I will say only a fraction of what I think about standard "fundamentalist churches)
Churches run their business similar to any other business; Satisfied "customers" will come back and lay out more money to fund the business. I don't believe all people in churches are bad, nor are all pastors, but I have a problem with how they run things.
I also think shoving religion in peoples faces and telling them they better accept "This brand's" offering or they are going to hell is wrong. Jesus says in the gospels that The Father draws people to him. It's not people's job to do that. I can only look out for my own walk with my Saviour. that's hard enough!
I realize many people didn't think the title of Refiner's thread was offensive. And many did . Am I making a right assumption that the ones who were not offended were the ones who don't choose to follow Jesus, and the ones who were, do follow Jesus? It boils down to each person's opinion, and that's where things get sticky. Each one thinks their own opinion is the right one. And we can get pretty nasty defending them sometimes.
I know you addressed more of what I said, Pmosh, and I'm sorry if I seem ignorant for not responding to everything you typed. I don't know if I made my point well enough, But I think this whole controversy a tough one. I'm not sure it's solvable, we all hold our own beliefs so strongly.
Tow Strange, I agree with your point that we see it differently. When I said "all sorts of support", I was thinking of the posts made that agreed with Refiner's rejection of Christ. I didn't count the ratio of responses that agreed with him versus the ones that didn't. Mainly I was remembering the ones that agreed with him, because they were offensive to me. I know it boils down to a matter of opinion. (I call my opinion my faith, but the person who rejects Christ would call it my fairy tale, and we can go round and round and things can get nasty!!!!
I know it is "just my opinion", but it seemed to me there was more support extended towards Refiner, the newcomer, to stick around, than Dot, the long-time poster who said she felt she had to go.
Tom, you said
quote:Yes, but she also stated that she wasn't happy with herself for not "taking a stand" when other posters had posted "anti-Christian" sentiments and that now she felt she must. (at least that's what I got out of it) She is doing what she feels she needs to and that is her choice. She will be missed. BUT I didn't see any "she's the one who gets lambasted!"... Refiner posted about her on another board and that wasn't "fair" and he apologized for it (I know, the horse was already out of the barn)... but I didn't see anyone else "lambasting". What did I miss? I've seen nothing but support for her posted.
By lambasted I meant the stuff Refiner posted about her on the other board, and that he says she attacked him first. I don't call her post about why she felt she had to leave as an attack on Refiner. Maybe "Lambasted" wasn't the best choice of word.
If you or Mr Pmosh reply to me, I probably won't see it. I am going to be gone for almost three weeks. (going to see my family in MI), and by then, I s'pose this thread will be three pages back! LOL!
quote:Am I making a right assumption that the ones who were not offended were the ones who don't choose to follow Jesus, and the ones who were, do follow Jesus?
I've been thinking about this, and if I may, I would say that those who were so highly offended by the statement cannot be followers of Jesus (in this category of "what offends them"), for it seems Jesus did not teach them to be so easily offended and outraged by such small things. In fact, his tools and disciplines will/do enable students of his to overcome mere wordy pain at an early stage in their discipleship. It was covered in Mortallity 101, so to speak.
Those who were not offended may just be more developed along these lines. In other words, be it via faith in Jesus or not, their sense of identity is intact enough to withstand the desire to freak out when someone "insults their faith."
Besides, any faith worth its salt should not be so fragile or subject to offense, IMO. Where is the courage resist mere self-preservation? Certainly Jesus is not threatened by such things.
As a believer in this Jesus dude, I wish more of those proclaiming Christ-ianity could grab onto these kinds of things, rather than be so quickly overcome and compelled to further the cycle of rejections and eneminess.
:)-->
:(-->
Just a thought or two.
I hope things cool down.
Looks like a misunderstanding that was used as an excuse to draw some blood and vent some anger.
Oh well. Mama always said "be careful or someone may lose an eye."
I heartily agree with your post about one's faith.
While I also subscribe to the ways of this "Jesus dude" :)--> , I know a few Budists, a number of Jews and even a few who practice Islam. Over the years I've even had "religious" discussions with them - and not one of them was threatened or offended.
quote:Looks like a misunderstanding that was used as an excuse to draw some blood and vent some anger. Oh well. Mama always said "be careful or someone may lose an eye."
You're probably right about this. However this recent nastiness makes me wonder if somebody isn't deliberately trying to attack the GreaseSpot Cafe itself. I'm betting more folks that just the waygb would be happier if it didn't exist OR if it's presence and influence could be degraded - even the word "mitigated" comes to mind!
(:)--> Lost in Translation - beautiful movie, but very subtle. Thumbs up. And I know...wrong thread).
Krysilis,
I never really thought about the recent fuss as being attacks mitigated by the Waygb (or other like-minded "adversary"), though these kinds of folks would definately take advantage of the ruckus, it seems.
But the overall nature of it seemed too typical. Almost predictable. Textbook.
And I just don't think the waygb are smart enough to make it look so accidental. :D-->
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
22
31
31
16
Popular Days
Jul 6
91
Jul 7
55
Jul 4
21
Jul 5
12
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 22 posts
Mary Cate 31 posts
Zixar 31 posts
Tom Strange 16 posts
Popular Days
Jul 6 2004
91 posts
Jul 7 2004
55 posts
Jul 4 2004
21 posts
Jul 5 2004
12 posts
CKnapp3
Well Paw, if you deleted such a post, whatever, but I deny making such a post.
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
pawtucket
Well it certainly seemed unlike you.
Maybe it is time to change your password.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Psalm 71 one
P-Mosh Thanks for your comments. Sorry it took me so long to get back to them.
you said
I agree with you. I Think "standard Churches" are businesses. (My opinion about all this is lengthy, I type about 12 wpm, and it is late and I am tired!! I have meant to start a thread about this, and will when I get back from my vacation. For now, I will say only a fraction of what I think about standard "fundamentalist churches)
Churches run their business similar to any other business; Satisfied "customers" will come back and lay out more money to fund the business. I don't believe all people in churches are bad, nor are all pastors, but I have a problem with how they run things.
I also think shoving religion in peoples faces and telling them they better accept "This brand's" offering or they are going to hell is wrong. Jesus says in the gospels that The Father draws people to him. It's not people's job to do that. I can only look out for my own walk with my Saviour. that's hard enough!
I realize many people didn't think the title of Refiner's thread was offensive. And many did . Am I making a right assumption that the ones who were not offended were the ones who don't choose to follow Jesus, and the ones who were, do follow Jesus? It boils down to each person's opinion, and that's where things get sticky. Each one thinks their own opinion is the right one. And we can get pretty nasty defending them sometimes.
I know you addressed more of what I said, Pmosh, and I'm sorry if I seem ignorant for not responding to everything you typed. I don't know if I made my point well enough, But I think this whole controversy a tough one. I'm not sure it's solvable, we all hold our own beliefs so strongly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HAPe4me
oh Psalmie, get out of this forum!
come to chat LOL
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Psalm 71 one
Tow Strange, I agree with your point that we see it differently. When I said "all sorts of support", I was thinking of the posts made that agreed with Refiner's rejection of Christ. I didn't count the ratio of responses that agreed with him versus the ones that didn't. Mainly I was remembering the ones that agreed with him, because they were offensive to me. I know it boils down to a matter of opinion. (I call my opinion my faith, but the person who rejects Christ would call it my fairy tale, and we can go round and round and things can get nasty!!!!
I know it is "just my opinion", but it seemed to me there was more support extended towards Refiner, the newcomer, to stick around, than Dot, the long-time poster who said she felt she had to go.
Tom, you said
By lambasted I meant the stuff Refiner posted about her on the other board, and that he says she attacked him first. I don't call her post about why she felt she had to leave as an attack on Refiner. Maybe "Lambasted" wasn't the best choice of word.
If you or Mr Pmosh reply to me, I probably won't see it. I am going to be gone for almost three weeks. (going to see my family in MI), and by then, I s'pose this thread will be three pages back! LOL!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
Hi Psalm 71 one,
I've been thinking about this, and if I may, I would say that those who were so highly offended by the statement cannot be followers of Jesus (in this category of "what offends them"), for it seems Jesus did not teach them to be so easily offended and outraged by such small things. In fact, his tools and disciplines will/do enable students of his to overcome mere wordy pain at an early stage in their discipleship. It was covered in Mortallity 101, so to speak.Those who were not offended may just be more developed along these lines. In other words, be it via faith in Jesus or not, their sense of identity is intact enough to withstand the desire to freak out when someone "insults their faith."
Besides, any faith worth its salt should not be so fragile or subject to offense, IMO. Where is the courage resist mere self-preservation? Certainly Jesus is not threatened by such things.
As a believer in this Jesus dude, I wish more of those proclaiming Christ-ianity could grab onto these kinds of things, rather than be so quickly overcome and compelled to further the cycle of rejections and eneminess.
Just a thought or two.
I hope things cool down.
Looks like a misunderstanding that was used as an excuse to draw some blood and vent some anger.
Oh well. Mama always said "be careful or someone may lose an eye."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lindyhopper
Well said, as usual, Sir Guess.
paraphrased from a movie I saw last night,Lost in Translation(which was aparently written by someone as they were moved by the holy spirit
;)-->)
...the more you know about yourself and what you want in life, the less you let things offend you...
tis the truth.
Oh, gotta go.....there goes my eye....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Sirguessalot:
I heartily agree with your post about one's faith.
While I also subscribe to the ways of this "Jesus dude"
:)--> , I know a few Budists, a number of Jews and even a few who practice Islam. Over the years I've even had "religious" discussions with them - and not one of them was threatened or offended.
You're probably right about this. However this recent nastiness makes me wonder if somebody isn't deliberately trying to attack the GreaseSpot Cafe itself. I'm betting more folks that just the waygb would be happier if it didn't exist OR if it's presence and influence could be degraded - even the word "mitigated" comes to mind!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sirguessalot
(
:)--> Lost in Translation - beautiful movie, but very subtle. Thumbs up. And I know...wrong thread).
Krysilis,
I never really thought about the recent fuss as being attacks mitigated by the Waygb (or other like-minded "adversary"), though these kinds of folks would definately take advantage of the ruckus, it seems.
But the overall nature of it seemed too typical. Almost predictable. Textbook.
And I just don't think the waygb are smart enough to make it look so accidental.
:D-->
Who knows?
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
Psalmie... have a nice vacation! and please don't bomb anyone while you're up there!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
you are a gem sirguess
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.