This reintroduction of the wolf in Montana has got its apponents quiet upset. If a wolf kills a ranchers live stock there is nothing they can do about the situation.
AVON — Last weekend, Tim Quigley found a calf that had been attacked by a wolf in his pasture, less than a half-mile from his house. When the calf died a few days later, it was the second confirmed wolf kill in 10 days; neighboring rancher Earl Stucky had a calf killed in a pasture less than a quarter mile from his home last week.
State and federal officials approved setting a trap. On Tuesday morning, it held a wolf.
A few hours later, Quigley watched in disbelief as the trap was opened and the wolf was set free.
"That's pretty damn frustrating for the ranchers," Quigley said. "The wolves come in, get my calf, we catch it and they turn it loose. Watching it lope across my meadow, knowing it's going to be back among my cattle — I'm kind of a quiet guy, but this really gets me going."
My Mom`s shepherd killed the neighbors dog one day....There have been local dogs that have been destroyed for killing cattle.
One neighbors great dane nearly killed my friends dog ... before they dragged it away...
Our neighbors dog killed our cat ..etc.
I understand the frustration of the ranchers and the local people where the beagle was killed....but it is a canine thing period ... I don`t think that wolves as a whole need to be blamed.....they should be delt with on an indivual basis.
These folks who have reintroduced the wolves ....need to raise the money to reimburse the rancher for stock killed if they don`t want the ranchers to retalliate.
It is foolish to expect a wolf NOT to hunt and kill the easiest prey.
Yup, if the activists want to repopulate the wolves I am one hundred percent in support, however ... I believe that they must reimburse the ranchers for damage done....just like any other individual... business or organization.
Yup, if the activists want to repopulate the wolves I am one hundred percent in support, however ... I believe that they must reimburse the ranchers for damage done....just like any other individual... business or organization.
Rascal -- good luck getting that implemented. :(-->
Most envirionmental activists I know (and I know quite a few), are merely interested in *social engineering*, and not willing to bear the burden of paying for it.
To them -- if a wolf kills a calf or some other livestock -- they would just say "hey -- that's the nature of the beast. What do you expect me to do about it?" -- even though they were the one's *mandating* it's re-introduction to the *wild* in the first place.
BOISE -- A rancher in remote central Idaho shot a wolf he said was harassing his cattle, marking the first time one of the federally protected predators has been killed under new guidelines that took effect in February.
The rancher near Mackay shot the female gray wolf Sunday at 11 p.m. He watched it and another, larger wolf chasing his cattle, the rancher told officials. The other wolf escaped.
Under the new rule that affects Idaho and Montana, people can now shoot wolves that pursue their livestock. Before, the rancher would have been forced to wait until a wolf had actually bitten one of his cows.
That change marked a first step in returning control of wolf populations to states and private landowners, who say they need it to limit depredation of livestock, domestic animals and wild game herds as wolf numbers steadily rise.
Federal officials have already determined the rancher acted appropriately. Wolf advocacy groups are reserving judgment pending an investigation.
"Under the new rule, the rancher was authorized to shoot the wolf," said Mark Collinge, director of the federal Wildlife Services Idaho office, which monitors predators preying on livestock in the state. He said it was the first under the new rule.
This is the third wolf killed legally in Idaho this year. Officers from Collinge's agency killed two in February after reports they'd preyed on cattle -- killings that also would have been allowed under the old rules.
In 2004, Wildlife Services agents killed 17 wolves in Idaho, the most in any year since they were reintroduced to the region in 1995.
Meanwhile, wolf numbers in Idaho are expected to surpass 450 this year. The state's remote wilderness areas have made for ideal breeding grounds.
In Sunday's incident, officials declined to give the rancher's name or exact location, fearing it could cause retribution on an issue that has polarized wolf advocates and critics.
Wildlife Services officials were on the scene Monday.
The dead wolf may have been a part of the nine-member Copper Basin pack, or may have split off from that group. Authorities plan to investigate the animal's stomach to learn of recent meals.
It'll also be examined for signs of breeding.
Federal officials described the events that preceded the shooting, saying the rancher called them Thursday to report that wolves caused his herd of cattle to stampede.
One calf was trampled to death, he told them.
The rancher wanted to know his rights under the new rule, which brings Idaho and Montana closer to the level of management they will enjoy when wolves are delisted under the Endangered Species Act. The federal government is waiting until a legal dispute is resolved in neighboring Wyoming before the wolf is delisted.
When the wolves returned to the property Sunday, officials say the rancher was ready.
"It appears the system has worked correctly and as we hoped it would," said Carter Niemeyer, the wolf recovery coordinator for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Boise.
It is great a rancher can now protect his cattle from wolves. I guess the guy who called the wardens to come and trap the wolve, only to see them release it, wasn't aware of the law or afraid to try it out.
Ranchers for years have not followed the law. I can tell you a large number will shoot any dog they see on their property that is not their own. They don't wait to see if it is going after livestock. All dogs that go ferrel will kill livestock or anything else to survive.
The largest problem for ranchers is people who no longer want their dog. Many people just go out in the country where thier dog doesnt know how to get home and release the animal. The dogs will form packs and go after deer and livestock. Some dogs will chase deer for the fun of it. They chase the deer until it drops dead. They don't eat it. Its just fun to chase.
Ranchers in other areas will shoot coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, and even eagles. The reason is pure economics.
What would you do if an animal was doing $1000 a day in damage to your wallet.
Hi. I'm back. My computer is down, and I'll probably need another one, otherwise I would have continued here. I am at the Public Library..
Anyway, the poor indian dude who lost his Beagle, wants the wolf shot or removed from the area. Local "activists" (Eco-Nazi's) are livid over the proposal, and are now claiming that the guy "used the Beagle as "bait" so that the wolf would "get a bad name", and could therefore be shot! What idiots! Buffoons!
I really have to chuckle over that one, because normally, the Enviro Nazi's up here usually will refer to the local natives as the "Indiginous Peoples" who are the true and only wise stewards of Mother Earth.
But now that one of them has lost his beloved pup to a wolf who was simply being a wolf, they are ....ed at him for wanting retribution! It kills me, I swear....
And so, the other day, I walked my dog back in the area where the wolf likes to (normally) play with local dogs, and some activist types challenged me as to why my dog was "not on a leash?! Don't you know that if the wolf hurts your dog because it is loose that the wolf may end up dead?!" And my response was a simple; "f__k you. If my dog gets "et" by a wolf, then that is the risk I take for living in Alaska and walking my dog in the woods".
And then I told them that if the wolf attacks my dog, I would shoot a few rounds from my nine millimeter Smith and Wesson semi-auto pistol into the ground to scare the wolf off. And if he doesn't leave and is hurting my dog, I will shoot the wolf! And then, I produced my pistola from behind my back (stuffed into my belt), and you should have seen their eyes go wide! And they shut up, and scurried off. And it was just great! I really enjoyed that...
But really, I like the wolf. I posted some pictures of him over at the photo thread, and I hope that all goes well for him. I was bummed that he ate the beagle, but it didn't surprise me. I dig it that me, my wife and my kids have the opportunity to interact with a frickin black Alaskan wolf...
But I fear that this thing will come to a bad end, and our cool "Local Wolf" situation here in Juneauwill go away with his demise due to a bullet...
I miss my wolf. They're much better than dogs, especially that POS chihuahua that my wife has now.
As far as shooting wolves go, I'll be fine with that as soon as it's legal to shoot idiot ranchers that don't put up fences to keep wildlife off of their property. Yes, I know it would require putting up at least ten foot fences around their property, but if they don't like wolves they shouldn't be there. It would be like living in Oklahoma and demanding to shoot bullets into thunderstorms because you hate tornadoes.
Wolves have suffered immensely since the Wild West daze...truly. They have been subject to misinformation and flat out, ill-based fear techniques to be done with them for scores of years. Ranchers and settlers were some of the first friends and serious foes of the animal.
A rightful balance will likely never be counted again, and it will take more than a generation (of people) to see any effective change bubble and mutate its way into policy. Real fairness is subjective and may never be realized.
Ideally, "activists" should be people with a passion about something who are willing to go to the wall to exact meaningful change that will be a betterment for the whole. They aren't (categorically) lone soldiers, missionaries, or martyrs. They are voices...to be heard or not heard...but the thing they are heralding should bring info to the masses' attention so the mass can consider it and act, if they so choose. To automatically view an activist as the "they," or in some negative context, immediately minimizes their effort.
Activists shouldn't automatically be lumped together with street corner screamers or media freaks.
Extremists make noise on both sides...who has more clout or is more dogged (arf arf) in their pursuit to see something thru are the ones the urbane urban public is most likely to read about.
Wild dogs and hybrids are the canine variety that statistically cause trouble for the purebred wolf populace. Hard to separate the problem from the problem here...lol.
Remember kids, a doggie treat means different things to different animals...ask an alligator. :)-->
As far as shooting wolves go, I'll be fine with that as soon as it's legal to shoot idiot ranchers that don't put up fences to keep wildlife off of their property. Yes, I know it would require putting up at least ten foot fences around their property, but if they don't like wolves they shouldn't be there. It would be like living in Oklahoma and demanding to shoot bullets into thunderstorms because you hate tornadoes.
Excuse me but wolves will go under a fence and not over it. Ranchers have more since than to shot at a thunder storm. They know that what goes up must come down(most usually where you don't want it). The cost to put up the game proof fence as you sugjest would be around a half million for the average ranch around here. Of corse that does not include maintaning the fence. After each of those thunder storms you have to repair the fence at every creek and dry wash. I can buy a 20 round box of 5.56 for less than $4. I'll let you figure what they will do. If we go your way a steak would cost around $75 each. Forget mohare or wool. I guess you can wear polyester.
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Stayed Too Long
This reintroduction of the wolf in Montana has got its apponents quiet upset. If a wolf kills a ranchers live stock there is nothing they can do about the situation.
Wolf Released After Being Trapped
AVON — Last weekend, Tim Quigley found a calf that had been attacked by a wolf in his pasture, less than a half-mile from his house. When the calf died a few days later, it was the second confirmed wolf kill in 10 days; neighboring rancher Earl Stucky had a calf killed in a pasture less than a quarter mile from his home last week.
State and federal officials approved setting a trap. On Tuesday morning, it held a wolf.
A few hours later, Quigley watched in disbelief as the trap was opened and the wolf was set free.
"That's pretty damn frustrating for the ranchers," Quigley said. "The wolves come in, get my calf, we catch it and they turn it loose. Watching it lope across my meadow, knowing it's going to be back among my cattle — I'm kind of a quiet guy, but this really gets me going."
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rascal
That isn`t a *wolf* thing....it is canine period.
My Mom`s shepherd killed the neighbors dog one day....There have been local dogs that have been destroyed for killing cattle.
One neighbors great dane nearly killed my friends dog ... before they dragged it away...
Our neighbors dog killed our cat ..etc.
I understand the frustration of the ranchers and the local people where the beagle was killed....but it is a canine thing period ... I don`t think that wolves as a whole need to be blamed.....they should be delt with on an indivual basis.
These folks who have reintroduced the wolves ....need to raise the money to reimburse the rancher for stock killed if they don`t want the ranchers to retalliate.
It is foolish to expect a wolf NOT to hunt and kill the easiest prey.
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Stayed Too Long
EXACTLY!! If a pack of dogs kills a rancher's cattle they destroy them. But if a wolf decides to grab an easy meal they do nothing.
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rascal
Yup, if the activists want to repopulate the wolves I am one hundred percent in support, however ... I believe that they must reimburse the ranchers for damage done....just like any other individual... business or organization.
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dmiller
Rascal -- good luck getting that implemented.
:(-->
Most envirionmental activists I know (and I know quite a few), are merely interested in *social engineering*, and not willing to bear the burden of paying for it.
To them -- if a wolf kills a calf or some other livestock -- they would just say "hey -- that's the nature of the beast. What do you expect me to do about it?" -- even though they were the one's *mandating* it's re-introduction to the *wild* in the first place.
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Stayed Too Long
Ranchers Can Shoot Wolves That Kill Cattle
BOISE -- A rancher in remote central Idaho shot a wolf he said was harassing his cattle, marking the first time one of the federally protected predators has been killed under new guidelines that took effect in February.
The rancher near Mackay shot the female gray wolf Sunday at 11 p.m. He watched it and another, larger wolf chasing his cattle, the rancher told officials. The other wolf escaped.
Under the new rule that affects Idaho and Montana, people can now shoot wolves that pursue their livestock. Before, the rancher would have been forced to wait until a wolf had actually bitten one of his cows.
That change marked a first step in returning control of wolf populations to states and private landowners, who say they need it to limit depredation of livestock, domestic animals and wild game herds as wolf numbers steadily rise.
Federal officials have already determined the rancher acted appropriately. Wolf advocacy groups are reserving judgment pending an investigation.
"Under the new rule, the rancher was authorized to shoot the wolf," said Mark Collinge, director of the federal Wildlife Services Idaho office, which monitors predators preying on livestock in the state. He said it was the first under the new rule.
This is the third wolf killed legally in Idaho this year. Officers from Collinge's agency killed two in February after reports they'd preyed on cattle -- killings that also would have been allowed under the old rules.
In 2004, Wildlife Services agents killed 17 wolves in Idaho, the most in any year since they were reintroduced to the region in 1995.
Meanwhile, wolf numbers in Idaho are expected to surpass 450 this year. The state's remote wilderness areas have made for ideal breeding grounds.
In Sunday's incident, officials declined to give the rancher's name or exact location, fearing it could cause retribution on an issue that has polarized wolf advocates and critics.
Wildlife Services officials were on the scene Monday.
The dead wolf may have been a part of the nine-member Copper Basin pack, or may have split off from that group. Authorities plan to investigate the animal's stomach to learn of recent meals.
It'll also be examined for signs of breeding.
Federal officials described the events that preceded the shooting, saying the rancher called them Thursday to report that wolves caused his herd of cattle to stampede.
One calf was trampled to death, he told them.
The rancher wanted to know his rights under the new rule, which brings Idaho and Montana closer to the level of management they will enjoy when wolves are delisted under the Endangered Species Act. The federal government is waiting until a legal dispute is resolved in neighboring Wyoming before the wolf is delisted.
When the wolves returned to the property Sunday, officials say the rancher was ready.
"It appears the system has worked correctly and as we hoped it would," said Carter Niemeyer, the wolf recovery coordinator for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Boise.
It is great a rancher can now protect his cattle from wolves. I guess the guy who called the wardens to come and trap the wolve, only to see them release it, wasn't aware of the law or afraid to try it out.
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Watered Garden
Maybe we need to rent or borrow some wolves here. In the 2003-2004 hunting season, it was estimated that there are 675,000 white tail deer in Ohio.
Of course, cocker spaniels are a lot slower....maybe not.
WG
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ex70sHouston
Ranchers for years have not followed the law. I can tell you a large number will shoot any dog they see on their property that is not their own. They don't wait to see if it is going after livestock. All dogs that go ferrel will kill livestock or anything else to survive.
The largest problem for ranchers is people who no longer want their dog. Many people just go out in the country where thier dog doesnt know how to get home and release the animal. The dogs will form packs and go after deer and livestock. Some dogs will chase deer for the fun of it. They chase the deer until it drops dead. They don't eat it. Its just fun to chase.
Ranchers in other areas will shoot coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, and even eagles. The reason is pure economics.
What would you do if an animal was doing $1000 a day in damage to your wallet.
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J0nny Ling0
Hi. I'm back. My computer is down, and I'll probably need another one, otherwise I would have continued here. I am at the Public Library..
Anyway, the poor indian dude who lost his Beagle, wants the wolf shot or removed from the area. Local "activists" (Eco-Nazi's) are livid over the proposal, and are now claiming that the guy "used the Beagle as "bait" so that the wolf would "get a bad name", and could therefore be shot! What idiots! Buffoons!
I really have to chuckle over that one, because normally, the Enviro Nazi's up here usually will refer to the local natives as the "Indiginous Peoples" who are the true and only wise stewards of Mother Earth.
But now that one of them has lost his beloved pup to a wolf who was simply being a wolf, they are ....ed at him for wanting retribution! It kills me, I swear....
And so, the other day, I walked my dog back in the area where the wolf likes to (normally) play with local dogs, and some activist types challenged me as to why my dog was "not on a leash?! Don't you know that if the wolf hurts your dog because it is loose that the wolf may end up dead?!" And my response was a simple; "f__k you. If my dog gets "et" by a wolf, then that is the risk I take for living in Alaska and walking my dog in the woods".
And then I told them that if the wolf attacks my dog, I would shoot a few rounds from my nine millimeter Smith and Wesson semi-auto pistol into the ground to scare the wolf off. And if he doesn't leave and is hurting my dog, I will shoot the wolf! And then, I produced my pistola from behind my back (stuffed into my belt), and you should have seen their eyes go wide! And they shut up, and scurried off. And it was just great! I really enjoyed that...
But really, I like the wolf. I posted some pictures of him over at the photo thread, and I hope that all goes well for him. I was bummed that he ate the beagle, but it didn't surprise me. I dig it that me, my wife and my kids have the opportunity to interact with a frickin black Alaskan wolf...
But I fear that this thing will come to a bad end, and our cool "Local Wolf" situation here in Juneauwill go away with his demise due to a bullet...
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excathedra
dear JL, forgive me for not having read this thread yet. is this YOUR black wolf that killed a dog ?
i get shivers when i think about your beautiful dog playing with him.....
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Mister P-Mosh
I miss my wolf. They're much better than dogs, especially that POS chihuahua that my wife has now.
As far as shooting wolves go, I'll be fine with that as soon as it's legal to shoot idiot ranchers that don't put up fences to keep wildlife off of their property. Yes, I know it would require putting up at least ten foot fences around their property, but if they don't like wolves they shouldn't be there. It would be like living in Oklahoma and demanding to shoot bullets into thunderstorms because you hate tornadoes.
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excathedra
your love for that little doggie just oozes from your posts ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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MATILDA
Wolves have suffered immensely since the Wild West daze...truly. They have been subject to misinformation and flat out, ill-based fear techniques to be done with them for scores of years. Ranchers and settlers were some of the first friends and serious foes of the animal.
A rightful balance will likely never be counted again, and it will take more than a generation (of people) to see any effective change bubble and mutate its way into policy. Real fairness is subjective and may never be realized.
Ideally, "activists" should be people with a passion about something who are willing to go to the wall to exact meaningful change that will be a betterment for the whole. They aren't (categorically) lone soldiers, missionaries, or martyrs. They are voices...to be heard or not heard...but the thing they are heralding should bring info to the masses' attention so the mass can consider it and act, if they so choose. To automatically view an activist as the "they," or in some negative context, immediately minimizes their effort.
Activists shouldn't automatically be lumped together with street corner screamers or media freaks.
Extremists make noise on both sides...who has more clout or is more dogged (arf arf) in their pursuit to see something thru are the ones the urbane urban public is most likely to read about.
Wild dogs and hybrids are the canine variety that statistically cause trouble for the purebred wolf populace. Hard to separate the problem from the problem here...lol.
Remember kids, a doggie treat means different things to different animals...ask an alligator.
:)-->
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MATILDA
...brings a whole new meaning to being a watchdog organization...lol.
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ex70sHouston
Excuse me but wolves will go under a fence and not over it. Ranchers have more since than to shot at a thunder storm. They know that what goes up must come down(most usually where you don't want it). The cost to put up the game proof fence as you sugjest would be around a half million for the average ranch around here. Of corse that does not include maintaning the fence. After each of those thunder storms you have to repair the fence at every creek and dry wash. I can buy a 20 round box of 5.56 for less than $4. I'll let you figure what they will do. If we go your way a steak would cost around $75 each. Forget mohare or wool. I guess you can wear polyester.
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