LOL me too, Suze! I think she was talking about me, not you! :D-->
Vickles, I did have that problem for years. One "friend" after another. I got to the point where I could recogize em right at the beginning, but I was still "nice" to them-- after all, they have no friends ya know? I finally prayed and asked God to keep me from finding these people--or them from finding me-- I'm not sure.
So far it has worked! But it may just be a period of time where He is strengthening me, and i will yet again have to face someone like that. What is weird is that I think I trust too much, and yet other times, I don't trust anyone. I think it's the glass half empty/half full thing.
1. I do just the opposite. Since TWI, I don't trust ANYone. It has even trickled into my relationships with family members. This extreme is as bad as the other.
2. I think in my younger years I tended to do what you are discribing - rescuing the unlovable by treating them respectfully. But, like you said, there's a reason why these weirdo's don't have friendship from others. In fact, I think that's how I got connected with TWI in the first place. Some weirdo's were into this PFAL trip, and I respectfully took the time to listen to their hype. Bad idea. They wouldn't let up. Next thing I knew I was in the class, and then fellowship, and then ... Vickles, please be careful not to be too nice.
Like we say in Wyoming, "Don't feed the bears"! -Pat
Yea I have gone down this road as a biproduct of TWI- I guess live and learn helps as long as you dont forget the learn part. I have had to redefine the word 'friend' many times over the years and in all honesty there arent all that many, it takes years to develop a real deep friendship.
I am still friendly with people no matter what their state but I dont turn a blind eye toward there darker or more hidden sides either, and generally dont (hopefully not) lay misplaced trust into the wrong hands.
Its a hard lesson, especially after coming out of TWI, to learn to trust and engage people appropriately and to keep proper boundaries. It is something I still have to work on and reassess nearly every day with each individual that I am engaged with....but its worth it --the friendships that I now have are broader, deeper, realer and more lasting than any of the ones that I once had (forever) in TWI
I know what you're saying vickles... you're from what I can tell a giving, caring person... and you want to help folks... but like mstar and suz say, you gotta learn to listen and learn from the negative things that have happened to you as a result of opening yourself up... I'm sure you 'see' the signs when they're there... you just don't listen to them and act on them... that's how I was, too...
I still 'open' myself to folks, but I keep my eyes open and listen to myself and take whatever action is appropriate... like mstar says, it's a hard lesson to act on... because you want to help and be their friend, but you do have to learn to act, so as suz says, you don't repeat the hurt... it's learning that being a friend doesn't mean 'at your expense'...
after all, there's no joy in being taken advantage of... is there?
It takes a conscientious effort of my mind not to rescue folks. I like helping people and in doing so at times, at a high cost. So I'v learned to set limits.Tor me I abide by certain rules.
If I don't have money to lend or give...Don't
If I don't have the time to spend...Don't
If I do anything out of guilt...Don't
It is very hard for me to stay out of Gods buisness. We were taught that we are Gods hands and feet. I believe that in part but not to the extent TWI taught it. We were also taught to live and give without any since of self-preservation. That is unhealth and not Godly at all.
So with me I have to watch myself...being the softhearted one, taking on other peoples problems because that is what I'v been trained to do. We were trained to rescue and resolve peoples problems with PFAL. IMO
we are all "normal" until we get to know eachother better : )...wish I could remember where I heard that from!!! But it's true what the others have shared with you. Think we've all been 'there' a time or two.
You are a sweet and wonderful lady...nothing wrong with you at all. I've spent my whole life being a magnet to psycho people : ) One CONSOLATION is that "Opposites Attract" ha ha!!
In some ways I don't want to change that loving, giving side of me. Bob has a sarcastic hard side to him which I do admire in him but would find it distastful for me because its not me.
But, I do find that I do get hurt quite a bit because of it and just haven't figured out how to not change in that respect but not get deeply hurt at the same time.
I think I did learn to be too open and have friends too instant and you all are right in real life it doesn't happen that way. It does take time to develop that friendship but I just don't know how to put that hold on it to make it slower.
My one true friend I've had since I was 8 years old lives in seattle and I would trust her with my life. But she lives in seattle and I don't talk to her much anymore because she lives so far away and our lives are so different from each other.
I remember when I first left twi I was so desparate for a friend that I would actually chase people to talk to them just like I was witnessing. It was the only way I knew after all those years of being in twi.
Because I got in twi at such an early age I didn't have a chance to learn socially how to make the friends as people my age have gone through.
In some ways that makes me so angry that I lost those years to learn and other times I am thankful for having the friends that I did. I mean if it wasn't for twi I wouldn't be getting to know you all, now would I?
But then realistically as we all are getting to know each other and spend time on the computer to each other, this is not true friendship in a sense. But, I do feel that is healthy for all the support we all give to each other. I hope you all understand what I'm saying.
quote: But then realistically as we all are getting to know each other and spend time on the computer to each other, this is not true friendship in a sense.
In a sense -- yes. However, I can easily say, that I feel like I know everyone here much more than I would the "average Joe".
Maybe not a "true" friendship, however when I meet "so-and-so" "face to face", I will feel like I already know them from the thoughts they have posted.
this forum has helped me trust people more actualy. In an amazing way it has taught me to read what Im thinking... in a sense it helps me understand my own thoughts so I can be more confident in "face to face" stuff.
It is less risky than in your face stuff cause I am not invested in a day by day situation like a neighbor or a co-worker would be. Yet it works for communication in areas I can get in trouble with on "the outside" .
sometimes I do not understand where people are coming from , why they would think that way this forum helps me get the idea of the why or how someone my think differently which helps alot.
friendships and trust wow Im a single girl always have been really and in a world full of couples and unions I at times feel I do not know where I belong...as I get older of course less single friends stick around without more important commintments...
so I recognize this area of my life , but I have some dear friends that for the life of me I can not figure out why I love these people, hahaha but honestly . god does and has sent people into my life and we have formed relationships I have some friends from I was a teen I still live in the same area...
trust???? I do not know if it was twi that taught me not to trust but it sure gave me some good excuses not to try... Jesus says he does not trust man because he knows what is in them but I can not stretch that to living a life without intimate realtionships that have meaning and trust.
I think I kind of live knowing I will make mistakes and disappoint those I love and forgive myself and so if my relationships end up in trouble I can forgive as well.
At times I have chose to move on because I can not give or get what I want from a friend any longer and it is just to much work for the relationship to continue when life is to short. but I appreciate the time spent.
right now Im in a thing where my feelings are using my better judgements for my own self.
If I really saw myself in this relationship without these "friendship" blinders I would say "what the he// are you doing all this for?" I must be lonely I do not know but I have decided to wait and play it out to see where or how rough this is going to be, it is a very intense thing. Is it worth it?>
well like Tom Strange says I want to do something rather than have a regret... my best friends are my kids and my parents tho..
I think what Goey said is significant. We may be attracted to losers because it makes us feel like winners.
Didn't we see this in TWI? They wanted numbers of people in each PFAL class, and --- now come on, admit it --- it was easier (less intimidating) to witness to poor, down-and-out folks than to sophisticated smart people.
Do you remember when the trend turned to seeking after only "employed" people for the class? How Christian was that?
But I think it happened because of this tendency to befriend those we consider less than ourselves. On the one hand, it seems the noble thing to do. But on the other hand, it may be a statement about how we view ourselves.
Similarly, I think the fact that we got involved with TWI in the first place ... is a statement about how we view (or viewed) ourselves. Let's hope we have a clearer picture nowadays.
If it's a real friend you want, look for somebody who you would like to be. Diversity is great, but if you want an intimate, giving friend, seek out your own kind, similar values and interests. Then give the relationship ample time and space to grow. Main thing is Don't lose yourSELF. -Pat
Im sorry if this stings but I believe it is significant.
The word and nothing but the word , um yeah no kidding , like education, common sense , and just plain thinking decisions through .
God is God like the mafia or something so do not worry.
I saw alot of pure ignorance in twi. People floating like fools trusting God for them to tell them to take responsibility for their familys welfare, for their health, or even to get a job.
I went to college after I was marked, and I was so surprised to find out gee in the "other world" people succeed and are happy and healthy and can even love one another with a true love!!!
honestly I was surprised .
It took years for me to realize God is so much bigger than the organization from Ohio and those who demanded my loyalty and obedience.
it was a cult. twisted man twisted.
so now I am kind of anti cult to the point that if unity and trust and gentle consideration of one another with forgivness is involved well I AM UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!!
go figure. haha Another thing I noticed about this cult head recovery is LEADERSHIP has turned into a problem at times....
I obey easily and quickly bosses are impressed etc. UNTILL I trip out and flip on them (twi flashback of the cost of my life and pure resentment) .
Im ok really do not worry about me , when my vioce pitches and I raise my arms to an extreme when I feel like Im being controlled again... no damage here . GEEEEEZ
does anyone eles understand? I have a boss right now a man who is very disciplined and was in the military so he can handle my crap from the cult(so far) but it has cost me jobs and friendships in the past.
Schwaigers
that is a fantastic post ! although I am not intimidated by education or money , I do tend to hang and speak more clearly with those who have the same income level as me... (poor lol)
interesting note, I think more than twi his a factor in this .
I think Im a loser who is a winner !!!1
I really do , im laughing here because this thread put some serious stuff together for me , I do know myself and Im middle age then something happens and I notice a part of me I no longer like and change myself... sometimes when this happens and it isnt an easy process the relationships I may have may need to be less than for me to grow or move on in my life. I have changed alot in my life and I think it is natural that my relationships have changed as well. some like I said have always stayed but some are gone now .
I have had friendships that have lasted as short as a few weeks and thirty years later they are still with me, haughting my life with a lesson or a love that I can not shake in my mind. but I no longer "see" the actual people.
When I was in the Way I had friends that I treated and trusted like family--they could visit without calling first, had keys to my house, swapped babysitting, had lots of planned and unplanned playdates, did family stuff together.
Then things changed--scheduling, two by two rules, fellowships split into different branches etc. Plus we were on the ****e list with the new limb coordinator. But we still found time to get together.
Then later, we left TWI and were slandered and M&A. I lost all those friends, who I looked upon as sisters.
We moved home, and my real sister and I have become very close--she's the only person who has a key to my house or can drop by anytime she's in the area, we talk several times a day, or IM, and our families get together.
Other friends are based on whatever activites I enjoy. One lady from work enjoys plays and theater, so we go to stuff in our area, but we've never planned family activities, and probably never will, even though we have children in the same age range.
I have some friends in the pagan/wiccan community, we meet for coffee a couple times a month, or join up to go to a larger meeting together,email alot, but don't visit much(don't all live in the same town, either.) And don't do family stuff together.
I don't tell people about my years in TWI much or 'share my heart,' like I did in the past with my TWI friends. Don't want people to know deeply personal things about me.
Do you think its the middle age thinking that gets us to be thinking and reflecting of our lives? Interesting thought.
Its not like I feel like I am desparate for friendship and love like I was when I left twi. Its just that I would like to be around more normal people but also help the ones that need help but not get so involved with them. I'd like to find that middle ground somewhere.
The part that I said this is not friendship in the true sense I feel that I need to elaborate on.
Coming here to GS is real, as in all the healing that I have gone through and the support I've received from you all. But its not real in the sense that I can't hear your voice and know truly what your saying...I don't have to deal with you on a day to day life. If I don't want to deal with you I just don't have to come back to this sight. Or after today I may not see you in gs anymore. It happens.
But your real in the sense that you have been through what I've been through and understand more than anyone else in my life what it actually was that I did when I was younger. You understand the enticements, the reasons why we did everything we were told, the seclusion.
I don't know, though who you really are behind that computer. I know the words that you say, I can know what you feel by what you have typed. But the real inner you, the daily living stuff, no I don't.
As with me. I want you all to know me and so I try to express as much of how I feel here, but its hard to come out with just the words to express that.
what a sweet post. I truly admire what you said and wish I could be more like that in my thinking: but I relate more to what Bramble said if Im honest.
"dont want people to know deeply personal things about me".
that is just honest.
I donot know why I pull back, well the M@A thing blew my mind and it may have left a scar that cant go away.
I want people to know me, BUT I guess I know the big cost and that is the power of having it all go away because someone said I was not good enough anymore.
stayed with me I guess. friends friend friends??? We thought we were saving the world for Gods sake... tish tish my head is bowed and shaking .
once bit twice shy I guess.
vickles you write like you can risk alot still, I sometimes wish I still could but clearly know I often do not .
the cost was high for me, but on the other hand to invest in relationships and desire intimte friends I think it may be needed. I do have some but it takes quite a while for me to get there now and always always in the back of my mind I have a guard up that says if it goes bad it does and you will not suffer to much for it again.
I no longer have friends that I will risk pain over. All the friends I have now could drop out of my life tomorrow--except my sister!--and there would be no upheaval, no children's tears, no heartache, so significant change.
I have some friends on the net--I'm in a journal loop, hang out at a few chat rooms--that know more about my emotional life than my in the flesh friends.
Perhaps as time goes by and I heal I will again have fuller friendships.
quote: Do you think its the middle age thinking that gets us to be thinking and reflecting of our lives? Interesting thought.
Yes. I am much more "reflective" now about all things. And though I will "open up" to complete strangers about myself, I agree with Bramble -- I have no friends with a capital "F".
I believe that one of the most valuble things that a person can ever have, in this life, is a true friend. I am happy to say that I have some. I can count them on one hand, and I cherish each and every one of them. I'm not talking about friendly aquaintances but meat and potato friends, that you can trust with your life.
None of my true friendships were made through twi. Most of the folks that I knew in twi have totally drifted out of my life. The friendships that I have now are unconditional in nature. Nothing is expected except trust and respect. There is no "maintanence" required with my true friends. We may not see each other for awhile but when the chips are down, we are standing in each other's corner. I guess I was lucky to have connected with these people.
When a person reaches the end of their life and they reflect upon all that is of value to them, things like money, houses, cars, social position, etc. pale in comparison to personal integrity and having true friends. My friends are a true joy to my heart.
I wear my heart on my sleeve and it gets stomped everytime. I have been a loyal and faithful friend to many and I don't know what it is, but I must have sucker or doormat written across my forehead because apparently they thought I was expendable. I guess I don't learn lssons very well when it comes to the heart.
I can relate to what alot of you are saying. Brambles, and Vickles especially.
For the longest time after TWI I tried to make friends with women that were, selfish and total loosers.. and I got hurt everytime, why don't they like me???? Why don't they even love themselves?????
They were man-crazy and would "stand me up" to get with a man...... Geesh.
I kept making "friends" with real loosers.
The most recent one I made in 2000 right after I moved here.
She is moving out of town. Every time I called her she would monopolize the conversation. I always supported whatever she was into but she NEVER EVER would never support anything I was doing because she was "busy and overwhelmed". Give me a break. -->
I feel like "good ridance".
I need to stay away from peole that are just users and flipant and selfish.
The friends I have today, I could walk away from and never know the difference.
Is this because of how I have been "programed"?
I have a few friends that are good to me, love me etc, I would not walk away from them.
But I DO feel like the way got me caught up in relationships with loosers, for the purpose of "saving" them, and that carried over after I left.
I always hooked up with loosers.
I do not have single friend from the time I left the way the first time (1983) until 2003.
Oh my gosh that is 20 years. :(-->
I have learned in the past few years to concentrate on my own life and be in the moment with my own family etc.
I stay at home, do the garden, do raw foods, do a bible fellowship (just on the days as commamnded by YHWH, (God) in the Torah).
I go to raw food festivals and stuff that is good FOR ME Wow there's a concept!
so my life is nice and simple now.
But I think allot of us have this "problem". ;)-->
But I feel much better now, talking care of myself and my family. :D--> That is what our first responsibility is anyway! We just all got tricked into recruting 24-7 and NOT taking care of ourselves or our families.
So I hope that helps...
We just need to start loving ourselves enough to stay away from selfish loosers and take care of ourselves and our falmilies the way God says.
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vickles
I'm asking because I just went through this again. Its very frustrating!!!!!!!!
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suz
she's right,
I do have a psyco problems.....
-->
but I'm trustworthy!!!
:D-->
xxxooo
suz
sorry, I can't help but it seems you need to learn a lesson in life so you DON'T HAVE TO REPETE IT anymore.
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Psalm 71 one
LOL me too, Suze! I think she was talking about me, not you!
:D-->
Vickles, I did have that problem for years. One "friend" after another. I got to the point where I could recogize em right at the beginning, but I was still "nice" to them-- after all, they have no friends ya know? I finally prayed and asked God to keep me from finding these people--or them from finding me-- I'm not sure.
So far it has worked! But it may just be a period of time where He is strengthening me, and i will yet again have to face someone like that. What is weird is that I think I trust too much, and yet other times, I don't trust anyone. I think it's the glass half empty/half full thing.
(now I'm gonna get analyzed! LOL)
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vickles
Psalmie, same here as far trusting too much and then not trusting at all...I haven't found the middle yet. Where is it?
LOL suzie, I always knew you were but since that is the friends I make.....
:D--> I still love ya!!!!
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Schwaigers
Vickles
Two thoughts about this:
1. I do just the opposite. Since TWI, I don't trust ANYone. It has even trickled into my relationships with family members. This extreme is as bad as the other.
2. I think in my younger years I tended to do what you are discribing - rescuing the unlovable by treating them respectfully. But, like you said, there's a reason why these weirdo's don't have friendship from others. In fact, I think that's how I got connected with TWI in the first place. Some weirdo's were into this PFAL trip, and I respectfully took the time to listen to their hype. Bad idea. They wouldn't let up. Next thing I knew I was in the class, and then fellowship, and then ... Vickles, please be careful not to be too nice.
Like we say in Wyoming, "Don't feed the bears"! -Pat
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mstar1
Yea I have gone down this road as a biproduct of TWI- I guess live and learn helps as long as you dont forget the learn part. I have had to redefine the word 'friend' many times over the years and in all honesty there arent all that many, it takes years to develop a real deep friendship.
I am still friendly with people no matter what their state but I dont turn a blind eye toward there darker or more hidden sides either, and generally dont (hopefully not) lay misplaced trust into the wrong hands.
Its a hard lesson, especially after coming out of TWI, to learn to trust and engage people appropriately and to keep proper boundaries. It is something I still have to work on and reassess nearly every day with each individual that I am engaged with....but its worth it --the friendships that I now have are broader, deeper, realer and more lasting than any of the ones that I once had (forever) in TWI
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Tom Strange
I know what you're saying vickles... you're from what I can tell a giving, caring person... and you want to help folks... but like mstar and suz say, you gotta learn to listen and learn from the negative things that have happened to you as a result of opening yourself up... I'm sure you 'see' the signs when they're there... you just don't listen to them and act on them... that's how I was, too...
I still 'open' myself to folks, but I keep my eyes open and listen to myself and take whatever action is appropriate... like mstar says, it's a hard lesson to act on... because you want to help and be their friend, but you do have to learn to act, so as suz says, you don't repeat the hurt... it's learning that being a friend doesn't mean 'at your expense'...
after all, there's no joy in being taken advantage of... is there?
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imbus
Vickles,
It takes a conscientious effort of my mind not to rescue folks. I like helping people and in doing so at times, at a high cost. So I'v learned to set limits.Tor me I abide by certain rules.
If I don't have money to lend or give...Don't
If I don't have the time to spend...Don't
If I do anything out of guilt...Don't
It is very hard for me to stay out of Gods buisness. We were taught that we are Gods hands and feet. I believe that in part but not to the extent TWI taught it. We were also taught to live and give without any since of self-preservation. That is unhealth and not Godly at all.
So with me I have to watch myself...being the softhearted one, taking on other peoples problems because that is what I'v been trained to do. We were trained to rescue and resolve peoples problems with PFAL. IMO
Hope this helps.
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Donner
Oh Vickles Dear,
we are all "normal" until we get to know eachother better : )...wish I could remember where I heard that from!!! But it's true what the others have shared with you. Think we've all been 'there' a time or two.
You are a sweet and wonderful lady...nothing wrong with you at all. I've spent my whole life being a magnet to psycho people : ) One CONSOLATION is that "Opposites Attract" ha ha!!
Just never stop Loving Vickles.
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vickles
Thank you all. Great advice.
In some ways I don't want to change that loving, giving side of me. Bob has a sarcastic hard side to him which I do admire in him but would find it distastful for me because its not me.
But, I do find that I do get hurt quite a bit because of it and just haven't figured out how to not change in that respect but not get deeply hurt at the same time.
I think I did learn to be too open and have friends too instant and you all are right in real life it doesn't happen that way. It does take time to develop that friendship but I just don't know how to put that hold on it to make it slower.
My one true friend I've had since I was 8 years old lives in seattle and I would trust her with my life. But she lives in seattle and I don't talk to her much anymore because she lives so far away and our lives are so different from each other.
I remember when I first left twi I was so desparate for a friend that I would actually chase people to talk to them just like I was witnessing. It was the only way I knew after all those years of being in twi.
Because I got in twi at such an early age I didn't have a chance to learn socially how to make the friends as people my age have gone through.
In some ways that makes me so angry that I lost those years to learn and other times I am thankful for having the friends that I did. I mean if it wasn't for twi I wouldn't be getting to know you all, now would I?
But then realistically as we all are getting to know each other and spend time on the computer to each other, this is not true friendship in a sense. But, I do feel that is healthy for all the support we all give to each other. I hope you all understand what I'm saying.
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dmiller
In a sense -- yes. However, I can easily say, that I feel like I know everyone here much more than I would the "average Joe".
Maybe not a "true" friendship, however when I meet "so-and-so" "face to face", I will feel like I already know them from the thoughts they have posted.
And that is a huge advantage. (IMHO)
:)-->
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Goey
I like to hang out with wackos sometinmes becasue it makes me feel more sane than I really am.
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mj412
this forum has helped me trust people more actualy. In an amazing way it has taught me to read what Im thinking... in a sense it helps me understand my own thoughts so I can be more confident in "face to face" stuff.
It is less risky than in your face stuff cause I am not invested in a day by day situation like a neighbor or a co-worker would be. Yet it works for communication in areas I can get in trouble with on "the outside" .
sometimes I do not understand where people are coming from , why they would think that way this forum helps me get the idea of the why or how someone my think differently which helps alot.
friendships and trust wow Im a single girl always have been really and in a world full of couples and unions I at times feel I do not know where I belong...as I get older of course less single friends stick around without more important commintments...
so I recognize this area of my life , but I have some dear friends that for the life of me I can not figure out why I love these people, hahaha but honestly . god does and has sent people into my life and we have formed relationships I have some friends from I was a teen I still live in the same area...
trust???? I do not know if it was twi that taught me not to trust but it sure gave me some good excuses not to try... Jesus says he does not trust man because he knows what is in them but I can not stretch that to living a life without intimate realtionships that have meaning and trust.
I think I kind of live knowing I will make mistakes and disappoint those I love and forgive myself and so if my relationships end up in trouble I can forgive as well.
At times I have chose to move on because I can not give or get what I want from a friend any longer and it is just to much work for the relationship to continue when life is to short. but I appreciate the time spent.
right now Im in a thing where my feelings are using my better judgements for my own self.
If I really saw myself in this relationship without these "friendship" blinders I would say "what the he// are you doing all this for?" I must be lonely I do not know but I have decided to wait and play it out to see where or how rough this is going to be, it is a very intense thing. Is it worth it?>
well like Tom Strange says I want to do something rather than have a regret... my best friends are my kids and my parents tho..
I trust them and God . that is about it tho.
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Schwaigers
I think what Goey said is significant. We may be attracted to losers because it makes us feel like winners.
Didn't we see this in TWI? They wanted numbers of people in each PFAL class, and --- now come on, admit it --- it was easier (less intimidating) to witness to poor, down-and-out folks than to sophisticated smart people.
Do you remember when the trend turned to seeking after only "employed" people for the class? How Christian was that?
But I think it happened because of this tendency to befriend those we consider less than ourselves. On the one hand, it seems the noble thing to do. But on the other hand, it may be a statement about how we view ourselves.
Similarly, I think the fact that we got involved with TWI in the first place ... is a statement about how we view (or viewed) ourselves. Let's hope we have a clearer picture nowadays.
If it's a real friend you want, look for somebody who you would like to be. Diversity is great, but if you want an intimate, giving friend, seek out your own kind, similar values and interests. Then give the relationship ample time and space to grow. Main thing is Don't lose yourSELF. -Pat
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mj412
Im sorry if this stings but I believe it is significant.
The word and nothing but the word , um yeah no kidding , like education, common sense , and just plain thinking decisions through .
God is God like the mafia or something so do not worry.
I saw alot of pure ignorance in twi. People floating like fools trusting God for them to tell them to take responsibility for their familys welfare, for their health, or even to get a job.
I went to college after I was marked, and I was so surprised to find out gee in the "other world" people succeed and are happy and healthy and can even love one another with a true love!!!
honestly I was surprised .
It took years for me to realize God is so much bigger than the organization from Ohio and those who demanded my loyalty and obedience.
it was a cult. twisted man twisted.
so now I am kind of anti cult to the point that if unity and trust and gentle consideration of one another with forgivness is involved well I AM UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!!
go figure. haha Another thing I noticed about this cult head recovery is LEADERSHIP has turned into a problem at times....
I obey easily and quickly bosses are impressed etc. UNTILL I trip out and flip on them (twi flashback of the cost of my life and pure resentment) .
Im ok really do not worry about me , when my vioce pitches and I raise my arms to an extreme when I feel like Im being controlled again... no damage here . GEEEEEZ
does anyone eles understand? I have a boss right now a man who is very disciplined and was in the military so he can handle my crap from the cult(so far) but it has cost me jobs and friendships in the past.
Schwaigers
that is a fantastic post ! although I am not intimidated by education or money , I do tend to hang and speak more clearly with those who have the same income level as me... (poor lol)
interesting note, I think more than twi his a factor in this .
I think Im a loser who is a winner !!!1
I really do , im laughing here because this thread put some serious stuff together for me , I do know myself and Im middle age then something happens and I notice a part of me I no longer like and change myself... sometimes when this happens and it isnt an easy process the relationships I may have may need to be less than for me to grow or move on in my life. I have changed alot in my life and I think it is natural that my relationships have changed as well. some like I said have always stayed but some are gone now .
I have had friendships that have lasted as short as a few weeks and thirty years later they are still with me, haughting my life with a lesson or a love that I can not shake in my mind. but I no longer "see" the actual people.
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
This might bear repeating
:D-->..........
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Bramble
When I was in the Way I had friends that I treated and trusted like family--they could visit without calling first, had keys to my house, swapped babysitting, had lots of planned and unplanned playdates, did family stuff together.
Then things changed--scheduling, two by two rules, fellowships split into different branches etc. Plus we were on the ****e list with the new limb coordinator. But we still found time to get together.
Then later, we left TWI and were slandered and M&A. I lost all those friends, who I looked upon as sisters.
We moved home, and my real sister and I have become very close--she's the only person who has a key to my house or can drop by anytime she's in the area, we talk several times a day, or IM, and our families get together.
Other friends are based on whatever activites I enjoy. One lady from work enjoys plays and theater, so we go to stuff in our area, but we've never planned family activities, and probably never will, even though we have children in the same age range.
I have some friends in the pagan/wiccan community, we meet for coffee a couple times a month, or join up to go to a larger meeting together,email alot, but don't visit much(don't all live in the same town, either.) And don't do family stuff together.
I don't tell people about my years in TWI much or 'share my heart,' like I did in the past with my TWI friends. Don't want people to know deeply personal things about me.
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vickles
Do you think its the middle age thinking that gets us to be thinking and reflecting of our lives? Interesting thought.
Its not like I feel like I am desparate for friendship and love like I was when I left twi. Its just that I would like to be around more normal people but also help the ones that need help but not get so involved with them. I'd like to find that middle ground somewhere.
The part that I said this is not friendship in the true sense I feel that I need to elaborate on.
Coming here to GS is real, as in all the healing that I have gone through and the support I've received from you all. But its not real in the sense that I can't hear your voice and know truly what your saying...I don't have to deal with you on a day to day life. If I don't want to deal with you I just don't have to come back to this sight. Or after today I may not see you in gs anymore. It happens.
But your real in the sense that you have been through what I've been through and understand more than anyone else in my life what it actually was that I did when I was younger. You understand the enticements, the reasons why we did everything we were told, the seclusion.
I don't know, though who you really are behind that computer. I know the words that you say, I can know what you feel by what you have typed. But the real inner you, the daily living stuff, no I don't.
As with me. I want you all to know me and so I try to express as much of how I feel here, but its hard to come out with just the words to express that.
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mj412
vickles
what a sweet post. I truly admire what you said and wish I could be more like that in my thinking: but I relate more to what Bramble said if Im honest.
"dont want people to know deeply personal things about me".
that is just honest.
I donot know why I pull back, well the M@A thing blew my mind and it may have left a scar that cant go away.
I want people to know me, BUT I guess I know the big cost and that is the power of having it all go away because someone said I was not good enough anymore.
stayed with me I guess. friends friend friends??? We thought we were saving the world for Gods sake... tish tish my head is bowed and shaking .
once bit twice shy I guess.
vickles you write like you can risk alot still, I sometimes wish I still could but clearly know I often do not .
the cost was high for me, but on the other hand to invest in relationships and desire intimte friends I think it may be needed. I do have some but it takes quite a while for me to get there now and always always in the back of my mind I have a guard up that says if it goes bad it does and you will not suffer to much for it again.
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Bramble
Risk--that's it.
I no longer have friends that I will risk pain over. All the friends I have now could drop out of my life tomorrow--except my sister!--and there would be no upheaval, no children's tears, no heartache, so significant change.
I have some friends on the net--I'm in a journal loop, hang out at a few chat rooms--that know more about my emotional life than my in the flesh friends.
Perhaps as time goes by and I heal I will again have fuller friendships.
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dmiller
Yes. I am much more "reflective" now about all things. And though I will "open up" to complete strangers about myself, I agree with Bramble -- I have no friends with a capital "F".
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GrouchoMarxJr
I believe that one of the most valuble things that a person can ever have, in this life, is a true friend. I am happy to say that I have some. I can count them on one hand, and I cherish each and every one of them. I'm not talking about friendly aquaintances but meat and potato friends, that you can trust with your life.
None of my true friendships were made through twi. Most of the folks that I knew in twi have totally drifted out of my life. The friendships that I have now are unconditional in nature. Nothing is expected except trust and respect. There is no "maintanence" required with my true friends. We may not see each other for awhile but when the chips are down, we are standing in each other's corner. I guess I was lucky to have connected with these people.
When a person reaches the end of their life and they reflect upon all that is of value to them, things like money, houses, cars, social position, etc. pale in comparison to personal integrity and having true friends. My friends are a true joy to my heart.
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jezusfreaky
I wear my heart on my sleeve and it gets stomped everytime. I have been a loyal and faithful friend to many and I don't know what it is, but I must have sucker or doormat written across my forehead because apparently they thought I was expendable. I guess I don't learn lssons very well when it comes to the heart.
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valerie52
Wow, some interesting posts here,
I can relate to what alot of you are saying. Brambles, and Vickles especially.
For the longest time after TWI I tried to make friends with women that were, selfish and total loosers.. and I got hurt everytime, why don't they like me???? Why don't they even love themselves?????
They were man-crazy and would "stand me up" to get with a man...... Geesh.
I kept making "friends" with real loosers.
The most recent one I made in 2000 right after I moved here.
She is moving out of town. Every time I called her she would monopolize the conversation. I always supported whatever she was into but she NEVER EVER would never support anything I was doing because she was "busy and overwhelmed". Give me a break.
-->
I feel like "good ridance".
I need to stay away from peole that are just users and flipant and selfish.
The friends I have today, I could walk away from and never know the difference.
Is this because of how I have been "programed"?
I have a few friends that are good to me, love me etc, I would not walk away from them.
But I DO feel like the way got me caught up in relationships with loosers, for the purpose of "saving" them, and that carried over after I left.
I always hooked up with loosers.
I do not have single friend from the time I left the way the first time (1983) until 2003.
Oh my gosh that is 20 years.
:(-->
I have learned in the past few years to concentrate on my own life and be in the moment with my own family etc.
I stay at home, do the garden, do raw foods, do a bible fellowship (just on the days as commamnded by YHWH, (God) in the Torah).
I go to raw food festivals and stuff that is good FOR ME Wow there's a concept!
so my life is nice and simple now.
But I think allot of us have this "problem".
;)-->
But I feel much better now, talking care of myself and my family.
:D--> That is what our first responsibility is anyway! We just all got tricked into recruting 24-7 and NOT taking care of ourselves or our families.
So I hope that helps...
We just need to start loving ourselves enough to stay away from selfish loosers and take care of ourselves and our falmilies the way God says.
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