I had the privilege of being in the DC area, while John Lynn was the Limb Coordinator. I was here when John was fired. I saw dramatic changes in the personalities and demeanors of people who were firm in the belief that the Word and The Way were intrinsically connected. I left in 1987 when I decided that I could not, in all good conscience, continue to be a part of The Way. I have sporadically fellowshipped with other believers who left. I have gone through some rough times. I got so depressed that I sought help from hospitals. I began drinking a lot more. I started searching for answers, and I suddenly realized that I had the means for the answers all along. The key is not The Way International, but the Way, Jesus Christ. I have begun to fellowship with other beievers who left about the same time I did. But this time, I am doing so to get my head back into the Word, not just for social purposes. I have seen a drastic change in my personality. I don't let things get me depressed as I once did. I have the hope of Christ's return, the knowledge that it is Christ which works in me, and the power from using the Word in my daily life.
A family member of mine was a Wow sent to Mass. in 86-87. He was also apprentice corps that year, despite the protests of other family members, moi included. According to him, Ralph D. set them straight on what was really going on, and they all decided to "leave the field." Although, my relative stayed there for a few years after that. Small exway world? isn't it.
And welcome to the cafe, brewmands9! Glad to hear things are looking up for you.
Someone mentioned about thinking that some of those passing around information on the crap were "possesed". For some, the source of the information could taint how it was received.
Since I was not involved from 1983-1990, I missed the uproar that accompanied Chris Geer's pronouncements, Lynn and Dubosfsky's paper, John Schoenheit's firing and all the rest.
In late 1990, I was thinking of getting back involved so that my kids could take PFAL. Despite being "out" for seven years, we had not moved away from Wierwille's teachings.
My "outie" sources for information were not in my mind very reliable. One was a woman I had known since my WOW year who couldn't think her way out of a paper bag, whose opinion was usually formed by the last person she had talked to. She and her husband didn't have enough brain cells between them to register on a postal scale. Another was my old WOW coordinator who I had little respect for because of his own abuses during our WOW year. Others were similarly unreliable in my mind.
So I was left mainly with the company line: Martindale's "Galatians Tapes", aka "Leaders Tapes I & II", which I took shortly after getting back "in". The twig coordinators who were left in Nebraska were seemingly intelligent, and I was fooled by what I heard and saw. I did not know any of the other folks who had left, so I couldn't talk to them. Of course it was verboten to discuss any of this stuff with "the believers" at that point.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
We seem to have a lot in common. Many of the people I knew who wanted to "enlighten" me were worse than the TWI leaders I knew. And the attitude they had was just unbearable. Lot's of little Weirwilles. Kind of like the people they claim had been so bad. Hmm...
Anyhoo, it's been nice being on this site, getting information and being able to discuss it without all the soapboxing. (Is that a real word?)
What caused you to finally leave mentally?
Were there sources of information that were reliable in your mind? If your wife was so adamant, did you have someone else you could talk to? If I'm getting to personal, it's ok.
The 2000 lawsuit was the catalyst that caused me to seriously question. Before that I questioned practices in my mind, but rarely doctrine. I rationalized away the abuses.
Seeing how the so-called MOG was so "out to lunch" got me questioning in sucession Martindale's ability to lead, his ability to teach, the substance of actual Martindale teachings, and then even some of Wierwille's teachings.
I took well over a year to methodically work through things. It was clear that a great many things could not in any way be suported by the bible. I worked my way up the Way Tree, getting no answers and finally spoke on the phone to one of the Trustees. He told me to take my concerns to my region coordinator, since that region coordinator had painstakingly "worked the Word" to prepare for a live teaching of WayAP in my area.
The RC told me that he hadn't "worked the Word" regarding Martindale's class because the Trustees backed up what was taught in it and that was good enough for him.
It was at that moment that, in my heart, I was "out". They threw me out a few months later after finding out that I posted here.
I guess that the "reliable source" was myself. I used the "keys to the Word's interpretation" that TWI had taught me, I didn't take anyone else's word for it.
I had no one to talk to face to face, but I did have a few folks from GS who helped me through the worst of times
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
"One was a woman I had known since my WOW year who couldn't think her way out of a paper bag, whose opinion was usually formed by the last person she had talked to. She and her husband didn't have enough brain cells between them to register on a postal scale. Another was my old WOW coordinator who I had little respect for because of his own abuses during our WOW year."
Thanks for the laugh, Oakspear. I know whereof you speak.
Oops. Forgot to answer the initial question:
"How long was it between leaving mentally and leaving physically?"
For me the whole thing was so gradual, leaving wasn't a trauma, or even a major event. I faded away. It was the last in a progression of steps, taken over time. However, I didn't realize how affected I was by the whole thing -- my involvement, and my leaving, and the decade afterwards when I had virtually no contact with anyone Way or ex-Way. The emotional impact upon finding WayDale was intense. I buried a lot of it, without even realizing how much was below the surface.
In the late 80's my wife and I were sort of dazed and confused living a way out west. We thought the best thing we could do to "Move the Word" (gawd, THAT was actually important to me at one time, sheesh) was to go on staff and "help rebuild the ministry".
About a year and a half of that crap (working on staff) had pretty much thoroughly disillusioned us. We finally started to see the organization for what it always was - a cheap conjob. When Loyboy made his infamous lunchtime anouncement "It's either him (Geer) or me, and don't give me any of that 'God' crap", well the decision was pretty easy. We were packing the next day.
Years later, after I had pretty much written off my WayWorld years, I stumbled upon Waydale. What a catharsis! I had no idea of the amount of bitterness and anger towards TWI that I had bottled up inside me.
I posted veraciously, daily, adamantly, with great vitriol and bile and invective (and maybe a little humor now and then). God knows how much money I would have spent with some shrink to get the same amount of therapy, but I'm sure it would have been many thousands.
Once I got that out of my system, I post here occasionally, but am now just the sweet, cuddly, little stud-muffin that everyone has grown to know and love...
George, I can so relate, except I never really knew what became of The Way, so it was always somewhere in the back of my mind, a loose end. I was very, very conflicted when I was directed to WayDale, half expecting to be bombarded with teachings from the collaterals (which I thought I barely remembered, but those twisted teachings sure came flooding back). I wasn't so sure I even wanted to revisit that part of my life . . . but, here I am. Still. In hindsight, it came at a good time for me, and I'm glad I had a place to unload it all, and grateful for the people who have shared this little corner of cyber-space with me.
By the way, I thought your "catharsis" was entertaining. Glad you stuck around.
I gave them about a year to "get it together" after Chris Geer shocked us all by reading Passing of a Patriarch on a night when we thought that he was just going to teach Corps Night. On that night, I was so worn out from going to endless meetings, working on staff, running a twig near HQ, singing in the choir, etc., etc., that I just watched Corps Night from my trailer on grounds. We weren't supposed to do that, but I'd gotten to the point of exhaustion that I just didn't care.
Life was never really the same again.
Thank God.
As I recall, that was pretty near the Rock of Ages, and "all was revealed" to the Corps, at Corps Week, within a few weeks. People were walking around the grounds, absolutely stunned. Broken hearts were everywhere.
The very next day, on his way to breakfast, Harry Cox (sixth corps) drove through a stop sign and was killed instantly. I still miss him, and still blame all this mess for distracting him from his driving. He didn't deserve that.
I continued to work on staff for the next year, but left shortly after the following Corps week. I was gone by early November. I went back to college, and patched things up with my family. I could never get those years, those family gatherings, which I'd missed, back; still, it meant something to them that I tried. They knew that I had recognized what they'd known all along; that TWI was not a good place for their daughter to be.
After leaving, I kept going to meetings for a few months, and even wrote Craig a letter telling him that he and Chris should do whatever it took to repair the schism between them, because they were tearing apart the ministry. He sent me back a pretty cold, one-sided form letter, as though I was the one who was messed up.
I went back to one more Corps week, to say goodbye to my old way of life.
Some on this thread have mentioned that it took longer than they'd anticipated for "Waybrain" to fade away; this was also the case with me. I'm glad to report that I have Jewish friends, gay friends, Democrat friends, and highly educated friends; none of these groups was particularly well represented in the Way. The more that I examine my old beliefs and prejudices, the more I see them for what they are: some were right, and some were pure evil.
I went to see John Lynn a few times, when he'd come through town, and really like him as a person. I don't follow his ministry very closely, but have always enjoyed spending time with him, when the opportunity arises. I seemed to miss him about half the time, however, during the past few years, because of family responsibilities.
I also had the joy of getting to know John Shoenheit a little better; I really like him as a person. We have lost touch recently, but I still think he's great.
Beyond this, I really haven't had much contact with many folks with whom I used to fellowship in TWI.
Every now and then, I'll connect with someone, through e-mail, but it's not because I miss the ministry; it's because I miss the person.
There's a big, big difference.
I think that it has to be an individual decision, on a person's own timeline. I felt very fortunate to be single at that time, and able to make the decision to leave without forcing my views on a spouse, or having a spouse try the same with me. Now that I am a parent, I feel extremely fortunate not to have borne children into the Waybrain existence; I would not want to stand before God and try to explain that one.
I now think of abortion as murder, ever since I learned that Dr. Weirwille's main motivation for supporting the practice seems to have been to cover his own mistakes. Lots of things, like that, I have re-evaluated. I'm trying to think of things from the perspective of "What would Jesus do in this situation?"
Well, life goes on, and we are all charged with finding the path which God wishes for us. Mine diverged from TWI, and I'm personally thankful for that.
To all of you who might be lurking and reading these threads, in preparation for deciding whether you will leave TWI or stay, may God guide you in your own decision, and give you the strength to do His will for your life.
it didn't take me very long. when I questioned what was being taught I was asked to leave so I did. but then I'm a cold hearted b@#$%^d and don't take many things on faith when it's taught by man.
a note: in the future when you hear the head preacher and sex with someone other than his wife, RUNNNNNNNNNNNN
Ok notinKansasanymore has gotten me to jump in here. I share the same sentiment of waiting for them to get it together. Of course my BC would not have afforded me the same luxury had I 'stumbled'...But that's an entirely different story.
We were dialed in to corps night when POP was read. Like everyone else, I was shattered. How could I look at the people in my twig the same way as before. As if everything was wonderful. Most of my group had been around a long time and were advanced class grads and some were wow vets. When asked at twig 'What was shared at corps night?!?!?!...I lied, I friggen lied to them...I made up some bs story about what was shared.
As spring turned into mid-summer, no word on any positive developments had surfaced. It was as if no one cared. Which I know now they didn't care. How stupid of me to think they would care and want to rectify the situation immediately. I wonder how long my BC would have given me to clean up a mess...
A month or so before corps week I had decided I was no-longer interested in running a twig under these circumstances. But would continue to 'stand' with the ministry and attend twig. Had a nice talk with the BC on that.
Ok, here we are at corps week now, woohoo. I'm anticipating some news on improvement. Or a plan to effect change, or something. Well guess what. Nothing. I do not recall which night under the big top it was. But LCM pointed to all of us, sweeping his out-stretched arm and pointed finger from one side of the tent to the other. He said (this is not a quote) it was our fault that the ministry was having all of its problems. I'm like, excuuuuse me!!! That was difficult to swallow hearing the 'MOG' shift the blame. The next morning I left corps week.
I attended twig the next several months. A job transfer became available the next spring. Nothing had changed so I took it and severed my ties.
I too can relate. During a conversation with my closest friend, some past events came up. More just as an example of something else but it made me irritable. The more I talked, it became apparent that it bothered me more than I had realized. It was then that I knew something had to change. And here I am. It was amazing to see how much I had learned to suppress my feelings!
Ralph came back to Massachusests in 87 after resigning and had several meetings where he set the record straight on what was happening in TWI to anyone who wanted to hear.
Thats why I prefaced my other post by saying;
"Maybe it's because I was a twig coordinator in Massachusetts during the Ralph D years that I got to hear about many problems and erroneous doctrines of TWI from Ralph, Sue Pierce & JAL in 87-88 timeframe.
It surprises me to hear of folks who were in TWI in the late 80's not knowing about the corruption and false doctrines since letters and tapes were being sent all over."
I said I was surprised, but I'm finding out that many folks really didn't hear all the stuff I was privy to back in the 80's.
But I'm glad for a Greasespotcafe that has forums where people can share what they know, allowing anyone still "in" to hear the truth.
Count me among the lucky. I was only in for 11 months.
My twig coordinator pegged me early as someone who would likely lead a twig in the near future, so just a few months after taking the PFAL class, I was invited to the New York Limb Coordinators Conference. That was either in March or April of 1989, I forget which.
It was at this time that Vince Finnegan announced that John Townsend and Ricardo Caballero had been removed from the Board of Trustees. (My response: Who? So?) It was fairly obvious that Vince did not expect to be associated with TWI that much longer.
I month or three later, we got a letter naming all the New Yorkers on the payroll who were being fired. It was a fairly long list. We were not told who was replacing them (which infuriated me because, if you're going to fire all my local leadership, you ought to tell me where to go for fellowship if I still want to associate with you. They never did).
So Word Wolf and I determined, what the hey, let's go to the Rock and see if we can't figure some things out for ourselves.
The rest is a story I've told many times before and I'll recap here:
The idolizing of Martindale was more than I could stomach, and when Donna referred to him as "the spiritual head of this ministry," I knew for certain I would never return.
And that was that. No pain. No tearing at my family. No abuse from "leadership." No micromanaging of my life and finances. Just a decision that Christ, not Martindale, is the head of the church.
I began questioning things after being a staff slave for a year or so. I left hq with an attitude that NOBODY was going to tell me how to live my life anymore, but I was still hoodwinked to believe twi had the foothold in the truth. That was the only reason I stayed after that.
Going to the ACNotSoSpayshul last November sparked my desire to leave, and I did in about 2 weeks after that thanks to some GSC friends.
So, I was kinda slow. It took me about 5 years to take the plunge. I've been out for a year now, and I ain't ever going back!!!!
It took us several years to leave. from '94 or so, when we quit running out own fellowship, life got more and more grim.
In '96 some wierd/awful stuff happened involving people we really liked--that was a big crack.
'98 we went through major busy body reproof. I didn't want to return, hubby did. The next year we walked on eggshells. I wanted out.Our HFC was nasty to me, nice to hubby, but was sly, so hubby didn't see/hear the crap.
In '99 we took a three week vacation. Ahh freedom. We came back to more 'we just want to help you' crap. We walked.
At that time we were not M&A--but became that way with in months. Never heard from any of our 'friends' again.
Still Giddy with Freedom!(Life, even with its ups and downs, has been far, far more pleasant since leaving.)
I've been out just over a year now and I'm STILL trying to leave mentally. Some days I think I'm doing pretty good at getting my life and thoughts in order and something happens that makes me feel like I've been set back light years in my recovery. Thankfully, I'm still in therapy and getting the professional help I need which wasn't allowed when I was involved with TWI.
The hardest thing for me, I think, was to realize that I can take care of myself and that I can do a pretty darn good job at it. I had been in a relationship for eight years and between my ex and TWI I was pretty much convinced that not only was I incapable of making my own decisions correctly, but also that THEY knew better than I did what was right for my life. It makes it really hard for someone coming out of that to trust themselves and to trust that they really are the ones who know what's best for them.
No I relish the idea that I stand or fall on my own. I'm solely responsible for the outcome of my life and not only do I get to make those decisions, I blame no one but myself if it doesn't turn out correctly - then I have no regrets either because I know I was doing the best I could with MY best interest at heart. TWI never had my best interest at heart and, I have painfully realized, neither did my ex. So now I have good and bad days, but the good days FAR out weigh the bad and the bad ones are still millions better than the good days in TWI ever were.
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brewmands9
I had the privilege of being in the DC area, while John Lynn was the Limb Coordinator. I was here when John was fired. I saw dramatic changes in the personalities and demeanors of people who were firm in the belief that the Word and The Way were intrinsically connected. I left in 1987 when I decided that I could not, in all good conscience, continue to be a part of The Way. I have sporadically fellowshipped with other believers who left. I have gone through some rough times. I got so depressed that I sought help from hospitals. I began drinking a lot more. I started searching for answers, and I suddenly realized that I had the means for the answers all along. The key is not The Way International, but the Way, Jesus Christ. I have begun to fellowship with other beievers who left about the same time I did. But this time, I am doing so to get my head back into the Word, not just for social purposes. I have seen a drastic change in my personality. I don't let things get me depressed as I once did. I have the hope of Christ's return, the knowledge that it is Christ which works in me, and the power from using the Word in my daily life.
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ex10
Out in 88
A family member of mine was a Wow sent to Mass. in 86-87. He was also apprentice corps that year, despite the protests of other family members, moi included. According to him, Ralph D. set them straight on what was really going on, and they all decided to "leave the field." Although, my relative stayed there for a few years after that. Small exway world? isn't it.
And welcome to the cafe, brewmands9! Glad to hear things are looking up for you.
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Oakspear
Someone mentioned about thinking that some of those passing around information on the crap were "possesed". For some, the source of the information could taint how it was received.
Since I was not involved from 1983-1990, I missed the uproar that accompanied Chris Geer's pronouncements, Lynn and Dubosfsky's paper, John Schoenheit's firing and all the rest.
In late 1990, I was thinking of getting back involved so that my kids could take PFAL. Despite being "out" for seven years, we had not moved away from Wierwille's teachings.
My "outie" sources for information were not in my mind very reliable. One was a woman I had known since my WOW year who couldn't think her way out of a paper bag, whose opinion was usually formed by the last person she had talked to. She and her husband didn't have enough brain cells between them to register on a postal scale. Another was my old WOW coordinator who I had little respect for because of his own abuses during our WOW year. Others were similarly unreliable in my mind.
So I was left mainly with the company line: Martindale's "Galatians Tapes", aka "Leaders Tapes I & II", which I took shortly after getting back "in". The twig coordinators who were left in Nebraska were seemingly intelligent, and I was fooled by what I heard and saw. I did not know any of the other folks who had left, so I couldn't talk to them. Of course it was verboten to discuss any of this stuff with "the believers" at that point.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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JustThinking
Oakspear,
We seem to have a lot in common. Many of the people I knew who wanted to "enlighten" me were worse than the TWI leaders I knew. And the attitude they had was just unbearable. Lot's of little Weirwilles. Kind of like the people they claim had been so bad. Hmm...
Anyhoo, it's been nice being on this site, getting information and being able to discuss it without all the soapboxing. (Is that a real word?)
What caused you to finally leave mentally?
Were there sources of information that were reliable in your mind? If your wife was so adamant, did you have someone else you could talk to? If I'm getting to personal, it's ok.
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Oakspear
The 2000 lawsuit was the catalyst that caused me to seriously question. Before that I questioned practices in my mind, but rarely doctrine. I rationalized away the abuses.
Seeing how the so-called MOG was so "out to lunch" got me questioning in sucession Martindale's ability to lead, his ability to teach, the substance of actual Martindale teachings, and then even some of Wierwille's teachings.
I took well over a year to methodically work through things. It was clear that a great many things could not in any way be suported by the bible. I worked my way up the Way Tree, getting no answers and finally spoke on the phone to one of the Trustees. He told me to take my concerns to my region coordinator, since that region coordinator had painstakingly "worked the Word" to prepare for a live teaching of WayAP in my area.
The RC told me that he hadn't "worked the Word" regarding Martindale's class because the Trustees backed up what was taught in it and that was good enough for him.
It was at that moment that, in my heart, I was "out". They threw me out a few months later after finding out that I posted here.
I guess that the "reliable source" was myself. I used the "keys to the Word's interpretation" that TWI had taught me, I didn't take anyone else's word for it.
I had no one to talk to face to face, but I did have a few folks from GS who helped me through the worst of times
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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laleo
"One was a woman I had known since my WOW year who couldn't think her way out of a paper bag, whose opinion was usually formed by the last person she had talked to. She and her husband didn't have enough brain cells between them to register on a postal scale. Another was my old WOW coordinator who I had little respect for because of his own abuses during our WOW year."
Thanks for the laugh, Oakspear. I know whereof you speak.
Oops. Forgot to answer the initial question:
"How long was it between leaving mentally and leaving physically?"
For me the whole thing was so gradual, leaving wasn't a trauma, or even a major event. I faded away. It was the last in a progression of steps, taken over time. However, I didn't realize how affected I was by the whole thing -- my involvement, and my leaving, and the decade afterwards when I had virtually no contact with anyone Way or ex-Way. The emotional impact upon finding WayDale was intense. I buried a lot of it, without even realizing how much was below the surface.
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JustThinking
Oops, posted to wrong thread.
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George Aar
In the late 80's my wife and I were sort of dazed and confused living a way out west. We thought the best thing we could do to "Move the Word" (gawd, THAT was actually important to me at one time, sheesh) was to go on staff and "help rebuild the ministry".
About a year and a half of that crap (working on staff) had pretty much thoroughly disillusioned us. We finally started to see the organization for what it always was - a cheap conjob. When Loyboy made his infamous lunchtime anouncement "It's either him (Geer) or me, and don't give me any of that 'God' crap", well the decision was pretty easy. We were packing the next day.
Years later, after I had pretty much written off my WayWorld years, I stumbled upon Waydale. What a catharsis! I had no idea of the amount of bitterness and anger towards TWI that I had bottled up inside me.
I posted veraciously, daily, adamantly, with great vitriol and bile and invective (and maybe a little humor now and then). God knows how much money I would have spent with some shrink to get the same amount of therapy, but I'm sure it would have been many thousands.
Once I got that out of my system, I post here occasionally, but am now just the sweet, cuddly, little stud-muffin that everyone has grown to know and love...
geo.
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laleo
George, I can so relate, except I never really knew what became of The Way, so it was always somewhere in the back of my mind, a loose end. I was very, very conflicted when I was directed to WayDale, half expecting to be bombarded with teachings from the collaterals (which I thought I barely remembered, but those twisted teachings sure came flooding back). I wasn't so sure I even wanted to revisit that part of my life . . . but, here I am. Still. In hindsight, it came at a good time for me, and I'm glad I had a place to unload it all, and grateful for the people who have shared this little corner of cyber-space with me.
By the way, I thought your "catharsis" was entertaining. Glad you stuck around.
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notinKansasanymore
I gave them about a year to "get it together" after Chris Geer shocked us all by reading Passing of a Patriarch on a night when we thought that he was just going to teach Corps Night. On that night, I was so worn out from going to endless meetings, working on staff, running a twig near HQ, singing in the choir, etc., etc., that I just watched Corps Night from my trailer on grounds. We weren't supposed to do that, but I'd gotten to the point of exhaustion that I just didn't care.
Life was never really the same again.
Thank God.
As I recall, that was pretty near the Rock of Ages, and "all was revealed" to the Corps, at Corps Week, within a few weeks. People were walking around the grounds, absolutely stunned. Broken hearts were everywhere.
The very next day, on his way to breakfast, Harry Cox (sixth corps) drove through a stop sign and was killed instantly. I still miss him, and still blame all this mess for distracting him from his driving. He didn't deserve that.
I continued to work on staff for the next year, but left shortly after the following Corps week. I was gone by early November. I went back to college, and patched things up with my family. I could never get those years, those family gatherings, which I'd missed, back; still, it meant something to them that I tried. They knew that I had recognized what they'd known all along; that TWI was not a good place for their daughter to be.
After leaving, I kept going to meetings for a few months, and even wrote Craig a letter telling him that he and Chris should do whatever it took to repair the schism between them, because they were tearing apart the ministry. He sent me back a pretty cold, one-sided form letter, as though I was the one who was messed up.
I went back to one more Corps week, to say goodbye to my old way of life.
Some on this thread have mentioned that it took longer than they'd anticipated for "Waybrain" to fade away; this was also the case with me. I'm glad to report that I have Jewish friends, gay friends, Democrat friends, and highly educated friends; none of these groups was particularly well represented in the Way. The more that I examine my old beliefs and prejudices, the more I see them for what they are: some were right, and some were pure evil.
I went to see John Lynn a few times, when he'd come through town, and really like him as a person. I don't follow his ministry very closely, but have always enjoyed spending time with him, when the opportunity arises. I seemed to miss him about half the time, however, during the past few years, because of family responsibilities.
I also had the joy of getting to know John Shoenheit a little better; I really like him as a person. We have lost touch recently, but I still think he's great.
Beyond this, I really haven't had much contact with many folks with whom I used to fellowship in TWI.
Every now and then, I'll connect with someone, through e-mail, but it's not because I miss the ministry; it's because I miss the person.
There's a big, big difference.
I think that it has to be an individual decision, on a person's own timeline. I felt very fortunate to be single at that time, and able to make the decision to leave without forcing my views on a spouse, or having a spouse try the same with me. Now that I am a parent, I feel extremely fortunate not to have borne children into the Waybrain existence; I would not want to stand before God and try to explain that one.
I now think of abortion as murder, ever since I learned that Dr. Weirwille's main motivation for supporting the practice seems to have been to cover his own mistakes. Lots of things, like that, I have re-evaluated. I'm trying to think of things from the perspective of "What would Jesus do in this situation?"
Well, life goes on, and we are all charged with finding the path which God wishes for us. Mine diverged from TWI, and I'm personally thankful for that.
To all of you who might be lurking and reading these threads, in preparation for deciding whether you will leave TWI or stay, may God guide you in your own decision, and give you the strength to do His will for your life.
Whatever that happens to be.
"Live just, and fear not."
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papajohn
it didn't take me very long. when I questioned what was being taught I was asked to leave so I did. but then I'm a cold hearted b@#$%^d and don't take many things on faith when it's taught by man.
a note: in the future when you hear the head preacher and sex with someone other than his wife, RUNNNNNNNNNNNN
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BackForty
Ok notinKansasanymore has gotten me to jump in here. I share the same sentiment of waiting for them to get it together. Of course my BC would not have afforded me the same luxury had I 'stumbled'...But that's an entirely different story.
We were dialed in to corps night when POP was read. Like everyone else, I was shattered. How could I look at the people in my twig the same way as before. As if everything was wonderful. Most of my group had been around a long time and were advanced class grads and some were wow vets. When asked at twig 'What was shared at corps night?!?!?!...I lied, I friggen lied to them...I made up some bs story about what was shared.
As spring turned into mid-summer, no word on any positive developments had surfaced. It was as if no one cared. Which I know now they didn't care. How stupid of me to think they would care and want to rectify the situation immediately. I wonder how long my BC would have given me to clean up a mess...
A month or so before corps week I had decided I was no-longer interested in running a twig under these circumstances. But would continue to 'stand' with the ministry and attend twig. Had a nice talk with the BC on that.
Ok, here we are at corps week now, woohoo. I'm anticipating some news on improvement. Or a plan to effect change, or something. Well guess what. Nothing. I do not recall which night under the big top it was. But LCM pointed to all of us, sweeping his out-stretched arm and pointed finger from one side of the tent to the other. He said (this is not a quote) it was our fault that the ministry was having all of its problems. I'm like, excuuuuse me!!! That was difficult to swallow hearing the 'MOG' shift the blame. The next morning I left corps week.
I attended twig the next several months. A job transfer became available the next spring. Nothing had changed so I took it and severed my ties.
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JustThinking
George,
I too can relate. During a conversation with my closest friend, some past events came up. More just as an example of something else but it made me irritable. The more I talked, it became apparent that it bothered me more than I had realized. It was then that I knew something had to change. And here I am. It was amazing to see how much I had learned to suppress my feelings!
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rags leroux
maybe the best fellowships are makeshift
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Outin88!
Ex10, it sure is a small ex-wayworld!!!
Ralph came back to Massachusests in 87 after resigning and had several meetings where he set the record straight on what was happening in TWI to anyone who wanted to hear.
Thats why I prefaced my other post by saying;
"Maybe it's because I was a twig coordinator in Massachusetts during the Ralph D years that I got to hear about many problems and erroneous doctrines of TWI from Ralph, Sue Pierce & JAL in 87-88 timeframe.
It surprises me to hear of folks who were in TWI in the late 80's not knowing about the corruption and false doctrines since letters and tapes were being sent all over."
I said I was surprised, but I'm finding out that many folks really didn't hear all the stuff I was privy to back in the 80's.
But I'm glad for a Greasespotcafe that has forums where people can share what they know, allowing anyone still "in" to hear the truth.
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Raf
Count me among the lucky. I was only in for 11 months.
My twig coordinator pegged me early as someone who would likely lead a twig in the near future, so just a few months after taking the PFAL class, I was invited to the New York Limb Coordinators Conference. That was either in March or April of 1989, I forget which.
It was at this time that Vince Finnegan announced that John Townsend and Ricardo Caballero had been removed from the Board of Trustees. (My response: Who? So?) It was fairly obvious that Vince did not expect to be associated with TWI that much longer.
I month or three later, we got a letter naming all the New Yorkers on the payroll who were being fired. It was a fairly long list. We were not told who was replacing them (which infuriated me because, if you're going to fire all my local leadership, you ought to tell me where to go for fellowship if I still want to associate with you. They never did).
So Word Wolf and I determined, what the hey, let's go to the Rock and see if we can't figure some things out for ourselves.
The rest is a story I've told many times before and I'll recap here:
The idolizing of Martindale was more than I could stomach, and when Donna referred to him as "the spiritual head of this ministry," I knew for certain I would never return.
And that was that. No pain. No tearing at my family. No abuse from "leadership." No micromanaging of my life and finances. Just a decision that Christ, not Martindale, is the head of the church.
The end.
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Tom Strange
yep Raffy... you're one lucky guy... maybe super lucky cuz you were only in for a short time AND you look like a movie star!
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
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Raf
you're strange, tom.
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Nottawayfer
I began questioning things after being a staff slave for a year or so. I left hq with an attitude that NOBODY was going to tell me how to live my life anymore, but I was still hoodwinked to believe twi had the foothold in the truth. That was the only reason I stayed after that.
Going to the ACNotSoSpayshul last November sparked my desire to leave, and I did in about 2 weeks after that thanks to some GSC friends.
So, I was kinda slow. It took me about 5 years to take the plunge. I've been out for a year now, and I ain't ever going back!!!!
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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dek52
Galen please check your private topics.
Dale E. Kennedy
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Nightmelody
It took us several years to leave. from '94 or so, when we quit running out own fellowship, life got more and more grim.
In '96 some wierd/awful stuff happened involving people we really liked--that was a big crack.
'98 we went through major busy body reproof. I didn't want to return, hubby did. The next year we walked on eggshells. I wanted out.Our HFC was nasty to me, nice to hubby, but was sly, so hubby didn't see/hear the crap.
In '99 we took a three week vacation. Ahh freedom. We came back to more 'we just want to help you' crap. We walked.
At that time we were not M&A--but became that way with in months. Never heard from any of our 'friends' again.
Still Giddy with Freedom!(Life, even with its ups and downs, has been far, far more pleasant since leaving.)
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Belle
For a lurker. :)
I've been out just over a year now and I'm STILL trying to leave mentally. Some days I think I'm doing pretty good at getting my life and thoughts in order and something happens that makes me feel like I've been set back light years in my recovery. Thankfully, I'm still in therapy and getting the professional help I need which wasn't allowed when I was involved with TWI.
The hardest thing for me, I think, was to realize that I can take care of myself and that I can do a pretty darn good job at it. I had been in a relationship for eight years and between my ex and TWI I was pretty much convinced that not only was I incapable of making my own decisions correctly, but also that THEY knew better than I did what was right for my life. It makes it really hard for someone coming out of that to trust themselves and to trust that they really are the ones who know what's best for them.
No I relish the idea that I stand or fall on my own. I'm solely responsible for the outcome of my life and not only do I get to make those decisions, I blame no one but myself if it doesn't turn out correctly - then I have no regrets either because I know I was doing the best I could with MY best interest at heart. TWI never had my best interest at heart and, I have painfully realized, neither did my ex. So now I have good and bad days, but the good days FAR out weigh the bad and the bad ones are still millions better than the good days in TWI ever were.
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