I was referring to the troll won the last round as a measure ~ to stop there and let people think.
Some of us do not realize when we are reacting to 'triggers'.Even if it's not accurate, it falls in the category of exagerration. The suspected troll is expressing something one may not 'like'.
That liking something or disliking comes from ME in how I respond.
Like a wake-up call. Am I jolted? Will my defenses rise? Will I be offended? Will I defend someone who is? What am I really miffed at?
Does it apply to me? If it does, now what.
Look in the mirror. What is leaving you? Are you left out? Are you pulled in?
Disagreements and adversarial situations don't own us. The situations can be turned into what we make it if we so chose the engagement with others.
This is where I meant ~ I guess the troll won ~ not the troll per say ~ an intention that showed a part of ourselves to others and to us.
We can't experience our emotions if someone else isn't there. We take for granted who we are. We stay set or fixed in our lives if we remain unchallenged. We don't get to check our maturation and progress if our worlds limited to being comfortable and we're 'in charge'. We stagnate.
There is no right or wrong here, I think. Fine, go about our life, stay whoever we think we are, don't bother with what's going on. Some of us even put our heads in the sand.
But you know what, sooner or later, we have to take on our emotions and confront our fears. Things will keep happening, the same conflicts (or what our inside is in tune to by our conflict within) until we conquer what causes us to feel certain emotions that prompt our own unwelcome responses.
Playing it close to the vest will not work when the 'other person' is responding. We'll shut them off because because we don't want to look inside and see what is causing us to feel 'that way'!
That is what was happening on this thread to a degree.
Reminded me of who's gonna get their a$$ kicked after school. It's just emotions and projection to ~ the words in a post by a poster ~ yet it can exagerrate itself because the issue within wasn't 'nipped in the bud'(sp). I know now how I feel inside, my flaws, my limitations (which change to as I change). This thread is eally all about GROWTH.
I had a situation for years in which I couldn't share my feelings with someone important to me.
I bought a special journal so that every Christmas - because I couldn't be with this person, their choice not mine, so I wrote down my emotional experiences of that year down.
What was so revealing to me was that after 5 years (I read it over completely) ~ I found out where I'd been.
Regardless of who is right or wrong, I found how I started with anger, followed with blame, then bitterness, then accountability for my part until the year I last wrote in that journal ~ was acceptance.
I got to see my progress, and more importantly, my process. We are all unique ~ and so are the experiences that inform us ~ there are no two that are exactly alike.
Writing is a great form of mapping, or a chart.
I agree with you and encourage you to continue. Our 'cache' is most important to truly living if we put ourselves to good use..imho See you later, Ginger
quote:I'm glad for both threads, Satori, and you do attract some very cool people too.
I wanted to share some information I think we'd all benefit from but a family emergency is calling my attention and me physically as well, to go out of town for a few days, as far as I can tell it.
I'll check in if a computer is handy, if not, I hope there's lots to catch up on when I return.
Meanwhile ~ take care everyone and "I'll be back"!!!
Satori, I do so love your brain, how lucky I am to engage it on very provocative subjects and the rest of you guys, you are ssoooo cooolll...have fun while I'm away...Ginger PS I'll miss you :~( sniffles...bye bye
**
thank you ginger that you didn't say goodbye for good. thank you for helping me
Thanks for the reminder, excathedra. Has a year really passed since that whole troll thread fiasco?
If you care to elaborate, I'd love to hear about the "impact" those words had on you and the connection you've made between those posts and this current topic.
sirguessalot,
I think you should stick around.
Forget about politics. The literary types hang out in the Reading Room, or at least we used to, before we got chased off the board. Now Nostalgia has taken over. Maybe we can clear out some room by sending them down to Music where they belong. If you pester Linda Z long enough, she might even get us started on a gothic romance or something. Those efforts are usually good for a few laughs, plus you get to poke fun at some of the more conservative types. That's where we all get a chance to display our skills (or, rather, lack of them). Pawtucket will publish just about anything.
Better yet, maybe Hope will take a hard swallow and start us off on some new literary adventure. How 'bout it, Hope?
Ex and Ginger, you remind me of why I used to come here, and a bit why I am compelled to engage lately.
Here are some thoughts as I read. (I love to toggle)
There are strange benefits to being TWI’s Greasepots. A benefit that those who have never experienced such a group will not have – if we realize it.
We know firsthand what harm paranoid group-think can bring. We know how inwardly destructive it is. We know how unforgiving it is towards the gazillion foibles that adorn us beautiful mortal animals. We know how blind it is to the characters we really are. We know that to become the enforcers of it, we must also become unaware of our own natural selves.
Because of this enlightening forum, we can and should also know how easy it is to recreate such a dynamic. If we lack self-awareness. If we ignore our limits, and highlight those of others, which are often the same.
I try to realize my own faults, then fight like Hell to keep them a secret as I deal with them. And God help the person who tries to deal with them for me.
I have mine. You have yours.
We have a tendency to define others in very simplistic terms.
He does ____, therefore he is evil. He does ____, thererfore he is good.
We think it makes life simple, but it only complicates things.
We create sides. Because then the work is done, and we can move on to fulfillment.
But the work is never really done.
Everything changes. And everyone is more than meets the eye. Even you.
Lack of awareness leads to reacting to triggers: reminds me of a fiction project I am working on. One of the characters is struggling with an environment in which he is constantly being assaulted. He has been conditioned to think he only has two options to survive. The first is to respond in kind. The second is not to survive. He wants to believe that there is an alternative, one that frees him from being either a slave to his enemy, or a victim. He knows that by fighting on the attacker’s terms, he is being controlled. And by laying down and dying, he is also being controlled.
So what is the alternative?
That is the beauty of writing, I guess. I get to try to discover it even as the character does. But I would hope there is more than one. I have some ideas for myself. But I wouldn’t want to ruin the surprise.
Even though the character I mentioned is dealing with more physical violence than the GSC poster (i.e. mere digi-food fights), I think the same conflict confronts most of us on a social/conversational level. Fight or die.
I guess we must each find that third alternative that we can live with, or just admit that we are mere animals – survival of the fittest will purge our herds of the weak - fight like hell or lay down and die. (socially, spiritually, etc…).
Anyway, thanks Ex. Thanks Ginger. And thanks Laleo. I think I might for awhile (but not tonight – so my non-response is from absence, not lack of words.)
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on June 26, 2002 at 19:14.]
Please do tell me do you think that arguing and debating is the only way to get people to challenge themselves?
To all, It seems like there are some that think we all here for a “purpose”, to help cult members, to find the great meaning of life, to help others help themselves to God knows what. If we do not have this purpose, then we are just wasting our time.
Well I guess I am wasting away in Greasespotville and I have no one to blame but myself.
I have purely selfish reasons for coming here. I am here mostly for entertainment value and talking to some people I happen to enjoy talking to. Yes, there are post that spark my interest from time to time, but mostly I stay to the jokes and the light stuff. I have enough drama at my job and enough “realness” in my real life to fill several books.
First ofall, let me say that even though I have not told you before, I have loved your posts. I wondered where you went, now I know.
"We have a tendency to define others in very simplistic terms.
He does ____, therefore he is evil. He does ____, thererfore he is good.
We think it makes life simple, but it only complicates things.
We create sides. Because then the work is done, and we can move on to fulfillment.
But the work is never really done.
Everything changes. And everyone is more than meets the eye. Even you."
This goes way past the world is black and white thinking of TWI. No one is 100% good and no one in 100% bad. We are more complex than that. I see good people do bad things and bad people do good things. Which is right? Which is wrong? There are no clear roads as TWI taught...only one road. Yeah right! That one way road is a dead end!
For me, arguing and debating help to clarify what I believe about life. Sometimes when I've been challenged on posts I realize that what I wrote wasn't what I really believe, just what I thought I believed, although I might still defend the position for no better reason than that the person who challenged it got on my nerves. Some people enjoy the process, and learn something from it. Some don't. Sure, there are other ways to grow and learn.
You said: "I am here mostly for entertainment value and talking to some people I happen to enjoy talking to."
I think that's what most of us are doing here, so you're in good company.
Sorry Laleo and Adios, not ignoring you. You know how things like posting delays, work, sleep, etc.. twist these conversations into discomboobulated knots.
In my simplistic way of thinking, when people disagree on ideas or issues, that's a debate, or an argument. When they call each other names or call into question each other's mental health, manhood, integrity, etc., it's a fight.
Debates I like. I admit to sticking my nose into my share, both here and in my life away from here. Fights I don't like much, because instead of being an exchange of ideas and opinions, they're generally an exchange of insults and generalizations.
While fights might settle down and lose their heat, I don't really think they settle anything. The one who appears to win a fight is the one with the most words and the most relentlessness to keep pounding away until achieving the coveted Last Word.
Debates might not change anyone's mind either, but I like the way they challenge me to challenge my own thinking.
I don't really think a special place is needed for debates, even if they get a bit heated. But name calling is already against the rules, so fights (by my definition, and of course I'm right! ) ought to be easy enough to avoid if people will just think a minute before shooting off the insults.
Paraphrasing one of Satori's points, it's possible to look the other way when passing a trainwreck, but few people do. We must like conflict, we humans. Football, boxing, baseball, soccer, political debates--isn't the popularity of all these things based on our tendency to want to take sides?
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excathedra
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excathedra
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excathedra
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thank you ginger that you didn't say goodbye for good. thank you for helping me
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laleo
Thanks for the reminder, excathedra. Has a year really passed since that whole troll thread fiasco?
If you care to elaborate, I'd love to hear about the "impact" those words had on you and the connection you've made between those posts and this current topic.
sirguessalot,
I think you should stick around.
Forget about politics. The literary types hang out in the Reading Room, or at least we used to, before we got chased off the board. Now Nostalgia has taken over. Maybe we can clear out some room by sending them down to Music where they belong. If you pester Linda Z long enough, she might even get us started on a gothic romance or something. Those efforts are usually good for a few laughs, plus you get to poke fun at some of the more conservative types. That's where we all get a chance to display our skills (or, rather, lack of them). Pawtucket will publish just about anything.
Better yet, maybe Hope will take a hard swallow and start us off on some new literary adventure. How 'bout it, Hope?
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sirguessalot
Ex and Ginger, you remind me of why I used to come here, and a bit why I am compelled to engage lately.
Here are some thoughts as I read. (I love to toggle)
There are strange benefits to being TWI’s Greasepots. A benefit that those who have never experienced such a group will not have – if we realize it.
We know firsthand what harm paranoid group-think can bring. We know how inwardly destructive it is. We know how unforgiving it is towards the gazillion foibles that adorn us beautiful mortal animals. We know how blind it is to the characters we really are. We know that to become the enforcers of it, we must also become unaware of our own natural selves.
Because of this enlightening forum, we can and should also know how easy it is to recreate such a dynamic. If we lack self-awareness. If we ignore our limits, and highlight those of others, which are often the same.
I try to realize my own faults, then fight like Hell to keep them a secret as I deal with them. And God help the person who tries to deal with them for me.
I have mine. You have yours.
We have a tendency to define others in very simplistic terms.
He does ____, therefore he is evil. He does ____, thererfore he is good.
We think it makes life simple, but it only complicates things.
We create sides. Because then the work is done, and we can move on to fulfillment.
But the work is never really done.
Everything changes. And everyone is more than meets the eye. Even you.
Lack of awareness leads to reacting to triggers: reminds me of a fiction project I am working on. One of the characters is struggling with an environment in which he is constantly being assaulted. He has been conditioned to think he only has two options to survive. The first is to respond in kind. The second is not to survive. He wants to believe that there is an alternative, one that frees him from being either a slave to his enemy, or a victim. He knows that by fighting on the attacker’s terms, he is being controlled. And by laying down and dying, he is also being controlled.
So what is the alternative?
That is the beauty of writing, I guess. I get to try to discover it even as the character does. But I would hope there is more than one. I have some ideas for myself. But I wouldn’t want to ruin the surprise.
Even though the character I mentioned is dealing with more physical violence than the GSC poster (i.e. mere digi-food fights), I think the same conflict confronts most of us on a social/conversational level. Fight or die.
I guess we must each find that third alternative that we can live with, or just admit that we are mere animals – survival of the fittest will purge our herds of the weak - fight like hell or lay down and die. (socially, spiritually, etc…).
Anyway, thanks Ex. Thanks Ginger. And thanks Laleo. I think I might for awhile (but not tonight – so my non-response is from absence, not lack of words.)
[This message was edited by sirguessalot on June 26, 2002 at 19:14.]
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AdiosMiCorazon
So Laleo,
Please do tell me do you think that arguing and debating is the only way to get people to challenge themselves?
To all, It seems like there are some that think we all here for a “purpose”, to help cult members, to find the great meaning of life, to help others help themselves to God knows what. If we do not have this purpose, then we are just wasting our time.
Well I guess I am wasting away in Greasespotville and I have no one to blame but myself.
I have purely selfish reasons for coming here. I am here mostly for entertainment value and talking to some people I happen to enjoy talking to. Yes, there are post that spark my interest from time to time, but mostly I stay to the jokes and the light stuff. I have enough drama at my job and enough “realness” in my real life to fill several books.
Do I have to have a purpose/cause to post here?
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AdiosMiCorazon
Sirguessalot,
First ofall, let me say that even though I have not told you before, I have loved your posts. I wondered where you went, now I know.
"We have a tendency to define others in very simplistic terms.
He does ____, therefore he is evil. He does ____, thererfore he is good.
We think it makes life simple, but it only complicates things.
We create sides. Because then the work is done, and we can move on to fulfillment.
But the work is never really done.
Everything changes. And everyone is more than meets the eye. Even you."
This goes way past the world is black and white thinking of TWI. No one is 100% good and no one in 100% bad. We are more complex than that. I see good people do bad things and bad people do good things. Which is right? Which is wrong? There are no clear roads as TWI taught...only one road. Yeah right! That one way road is a dead end!
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laleo
For me, arguing and debating help to clarify what I believe about life. Sometimes when I've been challenged on posts I realize that what I wrote wasn't what I really believe, just what I thought I believed, although I might still defend the position for no better reason than that the person who challenged it got on my nerves. Some people enjoy the process, and learn something from it. Some don't. Sure, there are other ways to grow and learn.
You said: "I am here mostly for entertainment value and talking to some people I happen to enjoy talking to."
I think that's what most of us are doing here, so you're in good company.
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sirguessalot
Sorry Laleo and Adios, not ignoring you. You know how things like posting delays, work, sleep, etc.. twist these conversations into discomboobulated knots.
Thanks for the invite. I'll be around.
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Linda Z
In my simplistic way of thinking, when people disagree on ideas or issues, that's a debate, or an argument. When they call each other names or call into question each other's mental health, manhood, integrity, etc., it's a fight.
Debates I like. I admit to sticking my nose into my share, both here and in my life away from here. Fights I don't like much, because instead of being an exchange of ideas and opinions, they're generally an exchange of insults and generalizations.
While fights might settle down and lose their heat, I don't really think they settle anything. The one who appears to win a fight is the one with the most words and the most relentlessness to keep pounding away until achieving the coveted Last Word.
Debates might not change anyone's mind either, but I like the way they challenge me to challenge my own thinking.
I don't really think a special place is needed for debates, even if they get a bit heated. But name calling is already against the rules, so fights (by my definition, and of course I'm right! ) ought to be easy enough to avoid if people will just think a minute before shooting off the insults.
Paraphrasing one of Satori's points, it's possible to look the other way when passing a trainwreck, but few people do. We must like conflict, we humans. Football, boxing, baseball, soccer, political debates--isn't the popularity of all these things based on our tendency to want to take sides?
Linda Z
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