TWI’s jerry-rigged credo of pat phrases, buzzwords, ministry-cliches and such which became the harsh yet unseen taskmaster…me! I have found the enemy and it’s me! A self-imposed-police-state-of-mind…thinking of just a few one-liners –
Man o man. You just helped me put quite a few things in perspective. Rocky mentioned his way corps training and how he is still working to recover from that mess. It was in the way corps training that I learned to be extremely critical of myself. Nothing I did was ever good enough, it always had to be better. When I could no longer carry on appearnances and my outer shell began to crack - that's when I hated myself the most. I hated myself so bad that I was suicudal and almost successful. This was in 2017. I hated myself for feeling the way I did. I hated myself for drinking to numb it out. I hated myself because I couldn't stop drinking and desperately wanted to. I hated myself because I thought I knew better and yet could no longer live up to the cult cliches and quotes that are so prevelant in TWI. Really it's having a form of godliness but denying the power therof. It was polishing the flesh with no power to conclude the old man dead and press into the spirit.
It was in the way corps training that I learned to be extremely critical of myself. Nothing I did was ever good enough, it always had to be better...
Yeah, I remember, in FellowLaborers, the mantra was "Good, better, best, never let it rest, until your good is better, and your better best."
I'm not real keen on motivational slogans or posters, but we had one at my old job that said, "Perfection is the enemy of progress." I can get behind that.
Since my FellowLaborer days, I've adopted a new motto:
Man o man. You just helped me put quite a few things in perspective. Rocky mentioned his way corps training and how he is still working to recover from that mess. It was in the way corps training that I learned to be extremely critical of myself. Nothing I did was ever good enough, it always had to be better. When I could no longer carry on appearnances and my outer shell began to crack - that's when I hated myself the most. I hated myself so bad that I was suicudal and almost successful. This was in 2017. I hated myself for feeling the way I did. I hated myself for drinking to numb it out. I hated myself because I couldn't stop drinking and desperately wanted to. I hated myself because I thought I knew better and yet could no longer live up to the cult cliches and quotes that are so prevelant in TWI. Really it's having a form of godliness but denying the power therof. It was polishing the flesh with no power to conclude the old man dead and press into the spirit.
TWI taught me to hate myself.
OldSkool, your story resonates deeply with me. I was never corps, but I was married for eleven years to a vpw-loving narcissist whose flying monkeys were corps. I know about the constant walking on eggshells, the self-loathing, the self-medicating, the hellish world of confusion and suicidal despair for never being good enough.
Spiritual abuse is real, Psychological abuse is real. Religious abuse is real. And it's deadly.
Please know these fruits are not of God, Truth, Love. All are lies. ALL OF IT. There is no precious baby to be removed before throwing out the bath water. The baby is a rotten, diseased grown man yelling with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup. He has contaminated the entire bath room. Only complete demolition will do.
I can't say this enough: Thank God for Grease Spot Cafe.
For some reason your post brought a few TWI-dynamics to remembrance. I think wierwille-ideology had a sneaky way of sabotaging our emotional awareness…I took a little time to look at some related articles online. I think you might find this fascinating insight cool to check out – I’ll have a few excerpts and links below...also many of wierwille’s quotes are perversely counterproductive to the Christian lifestyle!
The real trick of TWI’s crippling subversion was the crafty way they embedded a certain set of attitudes in the minds of followers. TWI’s warped ideas of positive believing and the renewed mind in truth had the opposite effect to what was intended – and we brought it upon ourselves! Twisted attitudes we adopted were sapping our energy. That’s what’s really weird about this…it wasn’t by an external force (i.e., wierwille or some other little-Hitler )…it was an invisible saboteur - TWI’s jerry-rigged credo of pat phrases, buzzwords, ministry-cliches and such which became the harsh yet unseen taskmaster…me! I have found the enemy and it’s me! A self-imposed-police-state-of-mind…thinking of just a few one-liners – I bet a lot of Grease Spotters will recognize the following emotionally suffocating mantras, mottos and mucky-muckisms that could only come from the mind of a cult-leader.
I think there is a subliminal message in all of wierwille's quotes that conveys the same basic idea: wierwille is the ultimate authority on God or anything else.
You’ll also notice in his “word salad” there’s a false humility and how he used biblical or spiritual sounding terms to justify cruel or questionable behavior…it was all a smokescreen for unrepentant sin. He epitomized one who felt nothing nor exhibited shame or remorse…never repentant …never showed an inclination to change…unapologetic.
On some I cited the source…some are so pervasive in TWI-culture it might be impossible to note the “first occurrence” . I’m not going to list them all – just some I think prevented my emotions from functioning in a normal and/or healthy way. Emotional awareness is important because our emotions are own internal guidance system that often lets us know what is right and what is wrong for us.
Here’s an interesting excerpt about emotional awareness:
“Emotional Self-Awareness is the ability to understand your own emotions and their effects on your performance. You know what you are feeling and why—and how it helps or hurts what you are trying to do. You sense how others see you and so align your self-image with a larger reality. You have an accurate sense of your strengths and limitations, which gives you a realistic self-confidence. It also gives you clarity on your values and sense of purpose, so you can be more decisive when you set a course of action. As a leader, you can be candid and authentic, speaking with conviction about your vision.
Consider this real-world example: The chief tech officer at an innovation incubator is a bully, but he doesn't know it. He's very good at what he does except when it comes to managing people. He plays favorites. He tells people what to do. He doesn't listen. He freezes people out that he doesn't like. If you confront him with a specific incident, he denies it. He pins the blame on someone else and gets angry with them. Or he tells you that you’re the problem. Last I heard, he was about to be fired.” From: what is emotional self-awareness?
Here are just a few more reasons to be emotionally aware:
To recognize your moods and reflect on them in order to make better decisions.
To understand other people’s emotions and relate to them better.
Emotional awareness helps you set limits in order to protect yourself.
It helps us get to know ourselves.
From: Emotional Awareness: What Is It and Why Do We Need It?
I’m not going to make comments to critique each “wierwille-ism” – I’ll leave that up to any Grease Spotters who want to chime in on the cultic-greatness of these pithy duplicitous platitudes that could only come from the mind of wierwille
There’s a few things I will say about these wierwille quotes and then I’ll shut up:
1. I can see now reflecting on my own experience how these pretentious biblical sounding “proverbs” trivialized my emotions and subordinated them to wierwille’s word and will (aka “The Word” if you’re a diehard-wierwille-fan). Think of gaslighting: getting you to question your perception of reality, emotions, judgement and intuition.
“Gaslighting in a relationship can take on various forms. Rahman says some of the most common types of gaslighting behavior within a relationship are lying about a given circumstance or denying when abuse has occurred. However, it can also involve one partner projecting their own experiences and emotions onto a partner in a way that makes the partner question their own sanity. Another tactic is for the individual to minimize their partner's emotions or experiences so they question what really happened or how they really feel. And finally, gaslighting in a relationship can involve an individual causing social isolation by portraying their partner as "bad" or "crazy" in front of others.” From What Gaslighting Looks Like In a Relationship
2. you’ll notice in a lot of wierwille’s “short promos” he was selling an image that he wanted you to buy into...this was supposedly the real you…the ideal you…the ideal believer...think about the old cigarette commercials - you could look cool and sexy like these models/actors if you smoke this brand.
But looking back, I feel it was more along the lines of The Stepford Wives . That’s got to be one of the most tantalizing aspects for anyone who is abusive, exploitative and a predator. I’m inclined to think wierwille had the preconceived idea that the ideal believer should be servile... compliant... submissive... with an almost robot-like ability to suppress emotions, ignore sensory input, and turn off logical subroutines…all the while happily doing the man of God’s bidding (translation: following the cult-leader’s instructions). It’s the dehumanizing effect of malignant narcissism…As you read his statements below in that light you should get a better sense of just how self-serving he was. Think of a wolf with a voracious appetite.
3. After I left TWI and began unpacking the emotional baggage accumulated from 12 years of involvement - I seem to be improving on my sensibility – which is the capacity to appreciate and respond to complex emotional or aesthetic influences…basically having more sensitivity to my feelings and those of others…you’ll notice most of these are from “Life Lines: Quotations of Victor Paul wierwille.” Jampacked “gems” of bloviating micro -sermonettes…According to the preface written by L. Craig Martindale the idea for this book was suggested by wierwille himself, spoken directly to LCM, while flying back on Ambassador One to HQ. he said “Maybe you ought to think about putting a book together, son, made up of short statements I’ve spoken over the years which have blessed people.” I now find the book “very useful” cuz it encapsulates wierwille’s insidious ideology in one nifty little green book. Oh how convenient !
4. In my opinion, wierwille’s recurring theme of “The Word” as being the solution to all problems smacks of Gnosticism. The emphasis is on learning more and more about “The Word”. Knowledge is the key to salvation. Think about how much wierwille went on and on about the greatness of “The Word” and the power of believing. that inspired a lot of mental masturbation in followers. A charismatic leader who was all fluff and no substance has the power to tickle the ears of the young and the restless (put this in to see if you're still awake...by the sound of the snoring I guess I went over into prophesy ...oh well zzzzzZZZZZZ ZZZzzzzz )
“Mental masturbation brings out a short-lived stimulus of satisfaction, and then it is gone. It is seen as an addition that keeps you from living in reality because you constantly search for the next high of intellectual thoughts and not get anything done. Some have said that there is a lot of failure in life and business because there are many big ideas but minimal action happening because the action part is boring and not stimulating.” From: What is mental masturbation?
People will tend to drag their feet. Procrastination is an illusion because it masquerades as activity and is an especially tricky form of self-deception. … In my opinion a lot of what they had us do in our corps training was busy work. It was a lot of “activity”, but it had very little value of itself… it certainly kept our minds preoccupied – less chance of us thinking or questioning or realizing that everyone else including campus-leadership were also busy doing nothing.
According to Soren Kierkegaard (who was a Danish philosopher, theologian, and author) procrastination is a failure of the relationship between knowledge and the will. He said procrastination is like sewing without tying a knot at the end of the thread…That is an interesting thought - all the motions of sewing are there but not the practical consequences – because without a knot at the beginning and end of a length of stitching – the thread merely slips through the material but will not stay in place and hold the seam together. In other words, there's a lot of activity but it accomplishes nothing…Procrastination seems like monotony’s close cousin in the way a person repeatedly neglects what they should do.
...anyway here’s a short list of wierwille’s quotes:
Feelings come and go
Just renew your mind.
The love of God thinketh no evil
I have no friends when it comes to “The Word”.
The more abundant life – our deliverance from the power of Satan in this world – depends upon keeping the established fellowship with God. ( The New, Dynamic Church)
Fears have brought nothing but ruin, defeat, and captivity. The moment we are afraid, Satan has already moved in. (God’s Magnified Word)
We should always be steadfast on God’s Word for it is that Word and the accuracy of it that makes possible our joy and rejoicing. ( God’s Magnified Word)
The decision remains with you whether you are going to walk by the senses or by the revealed Word of God. (PFAL book)
Most of us have too much complicated theology and not enough simple believing. (Bible Tells Me So)
Believing implies obedience. (Life Lines)
You are not healed because the pain is gone, but because the word says so. (Life Lines)
Worry is nothing but advanced interest paid on unbelief. (Life Lines)
You can’t have a walk of believing in the Word when you continue to have condemnation. (Life Lines)
Speaking in tongues calms the troubled waters that are boiling inside. (Life Lines)
Only Christ in you can take away the consciousness of sin. (Life Lines)
Love sees more but is also willing to see less. (Life Lines)
Take the barbed wire down around your heart. (Life Lines)
When you forget God’s grace, you will be the one to cast the first stone. (Life Lines)
We can never afford not to love each other. (Life Lines)
You can be dead right but dead wrong because you have no love. (Life Lines)
A person needs to be loved the most when he deserves to be loved the least. (Life Lines)
If God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth isn’t condemning you, then why are you condemning yourself? (Life Lines)
Let your old man really die; don’t just ignore him. (Life Lines)
You only get hurt when you allow yourself to be hurt. (Life Lines)
It isn’t what you think, it is what the Word says that you should think. (Life Lines)
What we’ve got to learn is to never confess a negative. When you have a problem, never tell more people than necessary. (Life Lines)
When God forgives, He forgets. (Life Lines)
It is just as easy to think good of people as to think evil. (Life Lines)
Read and believe the media of the Word instead of seeing, hearing, and believing the media of the world. (Life Lines)
Get your mind off your experiences and into the Word. (Life Lines)
If you don’t have anything good to say about someone, shut up. It’s so easy to criticize, but we need to stand, fight, and believe for one another, not against each other. (Life Lines)
Don’t sacrifice your whole life just because you have a wound in one area. (Life Lines)
If I remember what God forgave me for, I have no trouble forgiving anyone else. (Life Lines)
Small minds talk about people; average minds talk about events; great minds talk about God’s Word. (Life Lines)
Thanks, T-Bone, for putting all these maxims in one place. Some of these sayings offer good advice or have a ring of truth to them, but in the context of the cult, they are all tools and weapons for manipulation and abuse. Subtle. Sinister. Wicked.
Small minds talk about people; average minds talk about events; great minds talk about God’s Word. (Life Lines) The original form is slightly different, right? "...great minds talk about ideas." Who originally said this? Stephen Covey?
Believing implies obedience. (Life Lines) No it doesn't, but if it does, it's one more reason not to believe in belief.
This is true. John Lynn was the biggest proponent of not throwing out the baby with the water. As intelligent as he was, if he had looked far enough beyond the bathroom he would have seen that many of TWI major doctrinal points are in serious error. Administrations, man of God crap, way corps making lifetime commitments, law of believing, the whole absent Christ spiel...I have literally taken everything I ever believed from TWI and did my own homework to the point that I have been able to not only identify what is in error, but also when the error was conceived and by whom. Wierwille is in a long list of false prophets and prosperity gospel preachers from Phineas Parkhurst Quimby to EW Kenyon to Kenneth Copeland to VP Wierwille. Name it and claim it. Abundant life crap. Jesus Christ did not die and rise again so we could have stuff. It was to redeem mankind from the corrupt sin nature and reunite us with God.
I have never trusted God more and have never had a more rich relationship with God and with Jesus Christ. I am at total peace.
...if he had looked far enough beyond the bathroom he would have seen that many of TWI major doctrinal points are in serious error. Administrations, man of God crap, way corps making lifetime commitments, law of believing,..
He did at one point renounce (kinda) the law of believing. I'll give him that, but that's all I'm going to give him.
He did at one point renounce (kinda) the law of believing. I'll give him that, but that's all I'm going to give him.
Really?!? Who can keep up with all the bull$hit! I feel like I've read everything written here over the years on this "law," but I just cat remember all the nonsense. I can barely type, I'm laughing so hard.
How (H-O-W) did he kinda renounce the law of believing?
I really don't need an answer, Waysider. Your post is brilliant just as it is.
Edited by Nathan_Jr Funnier than the music coordinator and the 7th TMOG
He did at one point renounce (kinda) the law of believing. I'll give him that, but that's all I'm going to give him.
19 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Really?!? Who can keep up with all the bull$hit! I feel like I've read everything written here over the years on this "law," but I just cat remember all the nonsense. I can barely type, I'm laughing so hard.
How (H-O-W) did he kinda renounce the law of believing?
He called the law of believing Christian witchcraft. And he was right. He held on to administrations and many other doctrinal points from TWI and they changed a lot of other points to be more in line with scripture. it was an effort, I can admit that. However, I will not judge the man or his works...that job belongs to the Lord on that day.
I am not directing this at John Lynn or his memory. Twi and most all offshoots cannot be honest with scripture. They are vested in their error and their livlihoods depend on it. They can't shake loose the fact that they love to be adored of men and followed as if they themselves were some great ones. They are vested in their lies. On the other hand, I bit the bullet and completely repudiated the way international and all things associated with them. At one point I had zero concern for anything Christian or Biblical. I have since decided that I will not abandon my faith because of false prophets and false ministries. However, the Berean mindset rules my day. I take everything to scripture to see if those things are so. Not only that but tracking doctrines through Church history is very insightful.
For example: Diispensationalism or administrations did not exist in mainstream Christian theology before the 1800s. It was peddled by John Nelson Darby, who was a known occultist, and incorporated into the Scofield reference Bible and Cyrus Scofield was an occultist as well, a charlatan, crook, and was tied into illuminiati money families through the Lotus Club in Manhattan where he lived for years. Rockefellers, Morgans, etc.
Here is a link to an article I wrote on law of believing. How I came to write it is humorous really. I was asked to write it by someone who left TWI and started their own actual Church. He rejected it but never said why. My work is not proven ministry research or even above reproach. I want to learn more, I want holes poked in it, I want to talk it over and enjoy other's perspectives. But...I digress.
He called the law of believing Christian witchcraft. And he was right. He held on to administrations and many other doctrinal points from TWI and they changed a lot of other points to be more in line with scripture. it was an effort, I can admit that. However, I will not judge the man or his works...that job belongs to the Lord on that day.
I am not directing this at John Lynn or his memory. Twi and most all offshoots cannot be honest with scripture. They are vested in their error and their livlihoods depend on it. They can't shake loose the fact that they love to be adored of men and followed as if they themselves were some great ones. They are vested in their lies. On the other hand, I bit the bullet and completely repudiated the way international and all things associated with them. At one point I had zero concern for anything Christian or Biblical. I have since decided that I will not abandon my faith because of false prophets and false ministries. However, the Berean mindset rules my day. I take everything to scripture to see if those things are so. Not only that but tracking doctrines through Church history is very insightful.
For example: Diispensationalism or administrations did not exist in mainstream Christian theology before the 1800s. It was peddled by John Nelson Darby, who was a known occultist, and incorporated into the Scofield reference Bible and Cyrus Scofield was an occultist as well, a charlatan, crook, and was tied into illuminiati money families through the Lotus Club in Manhattan where he lived for years. Rockefellers, Morgans, etc.
Here is a link to an article I wrote on law of believing. It's humorous really. I was asked to write it by someone who left TWI and started their own actual Church. He rejected it but never said why. My work is not proven ministry research or even above reproach. I want to learn more, I want holes poked in it, I want to talk it over and enjoy other's perspectives. But...I digress.
Yeah, I remember, in FellowLaborers, the mantra was "Good, better, best, never let it rest, until your good is better, and your better best."
I'm not real keen on motivational slogans or posters, but we had one at my old job that said, "Perfection is the enemy of progress." I can get behind that.
Since my FellowLaborer days, I've adopted a new motto:
"Strive for mediocrity."
I really like that. I always hated that Good, better, best crap. It's one thing to strive for excellence and enjoy the pursuit by the work you produce. But for nothing to ever be good enough...yeahhh...my big butt is striving for mediocrity!!
..anyway here’s a short list of wierwille’s quotes:
Feelings come and go --- whatever the heck does that even mean. Stating the obvious. My dog comes and goes too...in and out the back door heading out to the backyard...lol
Just renew your mind. --- da fuq?
The love of God thinketh no evil -- scripture quote pulled comletely out of context and used as a battering ram against dissenters. Wierwille is a plagarist...uh uh...you are thining evil....
I have no friends when it comes to “The Word”.-- Whatever that means. I think thats fair though. VPW really had no friends anyway....just followers. Even his board of trustees were there to rubberstamp. He had no friends on the motorcoach either...just victims.
,,,I could keep going but will spare everyone my sarcastic humor...lol
Thanks, T-Bone, for putting all these maxims in one place. Some of these sayings offer good advice or have a ring of truth to them, but in the context of the cult, they are all tools and weapons for manipulation and abuse. Subtle. Sinister. Wicked.
Small minds talk about people; average minds talk about events; great minds talk about God’s Word. (Life Lines) The original form is slightly different, right? "...great minds talk about ideas." Who originally said this? Stephen Covey?
Believing implies obedience. (Life Lines) No it doesn't, but if it does, it's one more reason not to believe in belief.
The quote was from Eleonor Roosevelt: “Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.”
And you make a great point – “some of these sayings offer good advice or have a ring of truth to them, but in the context of the cult, they are all tools and weapons for manipulation and abuse”.
It’s fascinating to think about the 3 pernicious pontificating Ps of vp (also know as the PPPOvp). The PPPOvp are plagiaristic, parasitic, and poisonous. Or PPPOvpAPPAP for short.
So wierwille plagiarizes Eleonor Roosevelt’s cool quote. Being true to his parasitic nature, wierwille cashed in on the glory of another person’s idea. But it’s not an exact copy of someone else’s work – wierwille had to adulterate it with his poisonous ideology. In this particular case substituting "God’s Word" ( which any diehard-wierwille-fan knows it really means wierwille’s word) – instead of discussing some formulated THOUGHT, CONCEPT, OPINION, REASON, THEORY, or BELIEF which ANYONE ( saint and sinner alike ) can have.
And I should also say – I even agree with the sentiment in SOME of wierwille’s quotes. But even then – knowing about his consistently bad behavior “backstage” – I'm inclined to think there was nothing noble behind his words – it was just another means of self-justification inside his delusional alternate reality, i.e., cognitive dissonance. For example, I like this one for the HONESTY and GENUINE HUMILITY we SHOULD HAVE in our relationships:
If I remember what God forgave me for, I have no trouble forgiving anyone else. (Life Lines)
*** BUT ***
Thinking about the many times I’ve heard wierwille – an unabashed plagiarist, pathological liar, and sexual predator – say that line from the pulpit in public meetings – I can’t help but hear in my head the expanded literal translation according to the cult-leader’s perpetual abuse:
If I, as an unrepentant sexual predator, career-minded pathological liar and a thieving-glory-hound-plagiarist can forgive myself, I have no trouble telling my people that God continues to forgive me all the time. Even as I anticipate the salacious “counseling” session I have planned for the motorcoach right after this cheesy sermon.
I wish you could see it in the original…it has a triple X rating.
Edited by T-Bone great editors discuss the typos of other Grease Spotters' posts
Thats awesome to hear, my friend! Liberating, isn't it? For me it came down to learning to accept loss. The five stage of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. I could never make it to acceptance and was stuck on a spin cycle of the first four -- in no specific order. I was unable to accept losses incurred from a son born with major health problems. Unable to accept that my life still matters after the way international, more so now since I am free from them. I could go on but I think you get the jist. I also drank heavily to numb it all out. I was the happiest guy on the outside but dying on the inside. I havent touched a drop in several years now. But alcohol and depression is akin to putting out a fire with gasoline.
Once I learned to accept reality for what it is....I learned to approach God with a completely different mindset. Now I have an attitude of humility and respect. TWI teaches an attitude of entitlement, where Jesus Christ accomplished everything and is chilling at God's right hand and all we have to do is demand it and claim it. I am able to accept loss and pick up the pieces and move on. It's part of life. TWI taught me not to accept loss but to confess my desired reality until it happens. Wrong way for sure.
Yes it’s liberating. To realize as a Christian you are broken. This is why we need a Savior. This is one thing the Way never gets to with the Wierwille ingrained super Christian logic. But it is a convo I have with other Christian friends often.
Bro it’s going to get better every day. Because we are awake and aware. It’s a sunrise on the horizon.
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Yes it’s liberating. To realize as a Christian you are broken. This is why we need a Savior. This is one thing the Way never gets to with the Wierwille ingrained super Christian logic. But it is a
OldSkool
This is true. John Lynn was the biggest proponent of not throwing out the baby with the water. As intelligent as he was, if he had looked far enough beyond the bathroom he would have seen that many of
Nathan_Jr
OldSkool, your story resonates deeply with me. I was never corps, but I was married for eleven years to a vpw-loving narcissist whose flying monkeys were corps. I know about the constant walking on eg
OldSkool
Man o man. You just helped me put quite a few things in perspective. Rocky mentioned his way corps training and how he is still working to recover from that mess. It was in the way corps training that I learned to be extremely critical of myself. Nothing I did was ever good enough, it always had to be better. When I could no longer carry on appearnances and my outer shell began to crack - that's when I hated myself the most. I hated myself so bad that I was suicudal and almost successful. This was in 2017. I hated myself for feeling the way I did. I hated myself for drinking to numb it out. I hated myself because I couldn't stop drinking and desperately wanted to. I hated myself because I thought I knew better and yet could no longer live up to the cult cliches and quotes that are so prevelant in TWI. Really it's having a form of godliness but denying the power therof. It was polishing the flesh with no power to conclude the old man dead and press into the spirit.
TWI taught me to hate myself.
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waysider
Yeah, I remember, in FellowLaborers, the mantra was "Good, better, best, never let it rest, until your good is better, and your better best."
I'm not real keen on motivational slogans or posters, but we had one at my old job that said, "Perfection is the enemy of progress." I can get behind that.
Since my FellowLaborer days, I've adopted a new motto:
"Strive for mediocrity."
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Nathan_Jr
OldSkool, your story resonates deeply with me. I was never corps, but I was married for eleven years to a vpw-loving narcissist whose flying monkeys were corps. I know about the constant walking on eggshells, the self-loathing, the self-medicating, the hellish world of confusion and suicidal despair for never being good enough.
Spiritual abuse is real, Psychological abuse is real. Religious abuse is real. And it's deadly.
Please know these fruits are not of God, Truth, Love. All are lies. ALL OF IT. There is no precious baby to be removed before throwing out the bath water. The baby is a rotten, diseased grown man yelling with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup. He has contaminated the entire bath room. Only complete demolition will do.
I can't say this enough: Thank God for Grease Spot Cafe.
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, T-Bone, for putting all these maxims in one place. Some of these sayings offer good advice or have a ring of truth to them, but in the context of the cult, they are all tools and weapons for manipulation and abuse. Subtle. Sinister. Wicked.
Small minds talk about people; average minds talk about events; great minds talk about God’s Word. (Life Lines) The original form is slightly different, right? "...great minds talk about ideas." Who originally said this? Stephen Covey?
Believing implies obedience. (Life Lines) No it doesn't, but if it does, it's one more reason not to believe in belief.
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OldSkool
This is true. John Lynn was the biggest proponent of not throwing out the baby with the water. As intelligent as he was, if he had looked far enough beyond the bathroom he would have seen that many of TWI major doctrinal points are in serious error. Administrations, man of God crap, way corps making lifetime commitments, law of believing, the whole absent Christ spiel...I have literally taken everything I ever believed from TWI and did my own homework to the point that I have been able to not only identify what is in error, but also when the error was conceived and by whom. Wierwille is in a long list of false prophets and prosperity gospel preachers from Phineas Parkhurst Quimby to EW Kenyon to Kenneth Copeland to VP Wierwille. Name it and claim it. Abundant life crap. Jesus Christ did not die and rise again so we could have stuff. It was to redeem mankind from the corrupt sin nature and reunite us with God.
I have never trusted God more and have never had a more rich relationship with God and with Jesus Christ. I am at total peace.
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waysider
He did at one point renounce (kinda) the law of believing. I'll give him that, but that's all I'm going to give him.
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Nathan_Jr
Really?!? Who can keep up with all the bull$hit! I feel like I've read everything written here over the years on this "law," but I just cat remember all the nonsense. I can barely type, I'm laughing so hard.
How (H-O-W) did he kinda renounce the law of believing?
I really don't need an answer, Waysider. Your post is brilliant just as it is.
Edited by Nathan_JrFunnier than the music coordinator and the 7th TMOG
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OldSkool
He called the law of believing Christian witchcraft. And he was right. He held on to administrations and many other doctrinal points from TWI and they changed a lot of other points to be more in line with scripture. it was an effort, I can admit that. However, I will not judge the man or his works...that job belongs to the Lord on that day.
I am not directing this at John Lynn or his memory. Twi and most all offshoots cannot be honest with scripture. They are vested in their error and their livlihoods depend on it. They can't shake loose the fact that they love to be adored of men and followed as if they themselves were some great ones. They are vested in their lies. On the other hand, I bit the bullet and completely repudiated the way international and all things associated with them. At one point I had zero concern for anything Christian or Biblical. I have since decided that I will not abandon my faith because of false prophets and false ministries. However, the Berean mindset rules my day. I take everything to scripture to see if those things are so. Not only that but tracking doctrines through Church history is very insightful.
For example: Diispensationalism or administrations did not exist in mainstream Christian theology before the 1800s. It was peddled by John Nelson Darby, who was a known occultist, and incorporated into the Scofield reference Bible and Cyrus Scofield was an occultist as well, a charlatan, crook, and was tied into illuminiati money families through the Lotus Club in Manhattan where he lived for years. Rockefellers, Morgans, etc.
Here is a link to an article I wrote on law of believing. How I came to write it is humorous really. I was asked to write it by someone who left TWI and started their own actual Church. He rejected it but never said why. My work is not proven ministry research or even above reproach. I want to learn more, I want holes poked in it, I want to talk it over and enjoy other's perspectives. But...I digress.
https://cloud.disroot.org/s/o2n6WBFDT3BNnSQ
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Nathan_Jr
I'm sorry. I thought VPW renounced his own law. Y'all were talking about JL renouncing it. I get it.
Well that just isn't so funny now. What a let down.
Edited by Nathan_JrMusic coordinator is back on top - funnier than Clayton Bigsby
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OldSkool
No...he was a dumb@$$ right up until the end.
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OldSkool
I really like that. I always hated that Good, better, best crap. It's one thing to strive for excellence and enjoy the pursuit by the work you produce. But for nothing to ever be good enough...yeahhh...my big butt is striving for mediocrity!!
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OldSkool
Feelings come and go --- whatever the heck does that even mean. Stating the obvious. My dog comes and goes too...in and out the back door heading out to the backyard...lol
Just renew your mind. --- da fuq?
The love of God thinketh no evil -- scripture quote pulled comletely out of context and used as a battering ram against dissenters. Wierwille is a plagarist...uh uh...you are thining evil....
I have no friends when it comes to “The Word”.-- Whatever that means. I think thats fair though. VPW really had no friends anyway....just followers. Even his board of trustees were there to rubberstamp. He had no friends on the motorcoach either...just victims.
,,,I could keep going but will spare everyone my sarcastic humor...lol
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T-Bone
The quote was from Eleonor Roosevelt:
“Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.”
from: Set Quotes.com
~ ~ ~ ~
And you make a great point – “some of these sayings offer good advice or have a ring of truth to them, but in the context of the cult, they are all tools and weapons for manipulation and abuse”.
It’s fascinating to think about the 3 pernicious pontificating Ps of vp (also know as the PPPOvp). The PPPOvp are plagiaristic, parasitic, and poisonous. Or PPPOvpAPPAP for short.
So wierwille plagiarizes Eleonor Roosevelt’s cool quote. Being true to his parasitic nature, wierwille cashed in on the glory of another person’s idea. But it’s not an exact copy of someone else’s work – wierwille had to adulterate it with his poisonous ideology. In this particular case substituting "God’s Word" ( which any diehard-wierwille-fan knows it really means wierwille’s word
) – instead of discussing some formulated THOUGHT, CONCEPT, OPINION, REASON, THEORY, or BELIEF which ANYONE ( saint and sinner alike 
) can have.
And I should also say – I even agree with the sentiment in SOME of wierwille’s quotes. But even then – knowing about his consistently bad behavior “backstage” – I'm inclined to think there was nothing noble behind his words – it was just another means of self-justification inside his delusional alternate reality, i.e., cognitive dissonance. For example, I like this one for the HONESTY and GENUINE HUMILITY we SHOULD HAVE in our relationships:
If I remember what God forgave me for, I have no trouble forgiving anyone else. (Life Lines)
*** BUT ***
Thinking about the many times I’ve heard wierwille – an unabashed plagiarist, pathological liar, and sexual predator – say that line from the pulpit in public meetings – I can’t help but hear in my head the expanded literal translation according to the cult-leader’s perpetual abuse:
If I, as an unrepentant sexual predator, career-minded pathological liar and a thieving-glory-hound-plagiarist can forgive myself, I have no trouble telling my people that God continues to forgive me all the time. Even as I anticipate the salacious “counseling” session I have planned for the motorcoach right after this cheesy sermon.
I wish you could see it in the original…it has a triple X rating.
Edited by T-Bonegreat editors discuss the typos of other Grease Spotters' posts
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chockfull
Yes it’s liberating. To realize as a Christian you are broken. This is why we need a Savior. This is one thing the Way never gets to with the Wierwille ingrained super Christian logic. But it is a convo I have with other Christian friends often.
Bro it’s going to get better every day. Because we are awake and aware. It’s a sunrise on the horizon.
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