I also think, since we stifled so much of the working of the spirit in us, I think many times the compassion, anger and other things we feel, the feelings of empathy for total strangers are also Christ's feelings working in us. Since we're out of the bondage of TWI, he can work in us to feel what he feels for people.
Nirvana Floy is what Mad Magazine in their parody called Troy!
Yes, I have had people call Deanna Troi before!
(There was an empath in ST:TOS too!)
EEEGAD! Kay's a Trekker!
(I should only look like Deanna! We may be the same height but there is far more of me than she!
I weigh in at 260. My husband loves well upholstered women!)
Chas--I am glad you finally got past the point of self condemnation regarding breast feeding. I have been a lactation counselor and the guilt that was laid on some of the women I worked with (NOT BY ME!) was enormous. I was a labor coach too, and the guilt that some women felt when their labors didn't go all 'natural' was enormous as well. Having a baby is tough enough without beating someone with the guilt stick!
In 1975 I asked my tc about vaccinations and told her that no matter what twi believed about vaccinations, I was going to have my son inoculated. Tc said that God gave those inoculations so parents didn't have to believe for kids not to get polio, whooping cough, etc.
Made sense to me!
Steve:
"To deny emotions is to say that God is an idiot"
I wish I'd said that because it is perfectly true!
Emotions are what make us real.
I Love you guys! I can feel my heart growing with love for all of you!
Great topic, and definitely Way related. I mean, weren't we trained to be cold about certain things...anything outside the "household"? Callous about giving to good causes, callous about the handicapped (ever hear LCM rant about Jerry's kids?).
I had a real disconnect because of childhood trauma. I've turned into a weepy compassionate old fart & I love it.
The topic of childhood trauma came up very recently in another GSC forum as a result of something TWI posted on its website about parents exercising authority over children. As my manner is, I reflected on my experience, this time since leaving twi, because I didn't have any children while IN twi.
Thankfully, my child is grown and is a well-functioning member of society, in spite of the baggage I brought to and unloaded on her as a result of TWI's now obviously FALSE DOCTRINE about childrearing.
This came to me today because I learned of a memoir, What My Bones Know, written by a survivor of complex PTSD from her childhood. Clearly, TWI doesn't have a monopoly on (much of anything) causing childhood trauma.
But for anyone who thinks about this now 20 years after the start of this thread, maybe this story of a determined young woman's journey of healing might offer some insight and hope.
Great topic, and definitely Way related. I mean, weren't we trained to be cold about certain things...anything outside the "household"? Callous about giving to good causes, callous about the handicapped (ever hear LCM rant about Jerry's kids?).
I read a book a while back called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin deBecker. He defines fear as an instinct, not an emotion, that can save your life when you point it in the right direction.
Gavid de Becker has updated his book a few times since you first read it. I haven't (yet) read it, but it should be on my list.
I myself feel significantly more compassionate towards some people and incidents - the homeless on the streets, for example, or (currently) the Ukrainian situation. Much more compassionate.
But in regard to issues that touch me personally, family matters or love interest, etc, I feel that there is something missing, something I haven't retrieved, something absent. At some other level, the passion for others at a more intimate level has gone. Too buttoned down. Is that something to do with getting older? Or am I still TWI-stunted in this area? Am I afraid to share what's going on inside?
Ah well. Half a bottle of good red wine, and I could be anybody's/ No not really: I just sent The Man home, with barely a goodnight hug. Where's my cat, for a cuddle?
I myself feel significantly more compassionate towards some people and incidents - the homeless on the streets, for example, or (currently) the Ukrainian situation. Much more compassionate.
But in regard to issues that touch me personally, family matters or love interest, etc, I feel that there is something missing, something I haven't retrieved, something absent. At some other level, the passion for others at a more intimate level has gone. Too buttoned down. Is that something to do with getting older? Or am I still TWI-stunted in this area? Am I afraid to share what's going on inside?
YAY for being more compassionate. That was certainly stunted in TWI.
As for matters of "love interest," I couldn't even hazard a guess. No doubt aging can be a factor. Being content in and with your own company isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Emotional intimacy can be hard to find nowadays. I applaud you for sharing a little of your vulnerability with us. That suggests it may be possible for you to find some of that intimacy if you're not completely afraid to share what's going on between your ears.
It's a lot easier to find compassion for people in the abstract (like the starving children in India or the kids with no access to schools in Africa) than it is to find compassion for people you can interact with. There's actual interaction, there's direct emotional contact, there's risk. What if you trust someone and they break your trust and hurt your feelings? It's certainly a risk we all face every day. It's generally a CALCULATED risk for many of us. You decide who is most trustworthy with your self and your privacy, and who's least likely to backstab you or betray you. Then you act accordingly- sometimes discovering later that you chose poorly. But, we are people, and we interact with people. Shutting down from EVERYONE isn't healthy. So, we risk our hearts.
I work quite a lot with homeless and other very needy people. My heart hurts for what they suffer. It's not a vague "compassion in the abstract."
I'm very fortunate to have a supportive group of friends, with some of whom I can be very open and vulnerable. Still - there's something missing. Some passion that used to be there, that isn't. Still fenced in. Doesn't help that some that should be supportive just kick me down. Maybe it is just "getting older." But that should mean more self-assuredness. Which, mostly, I am.
Your recent posts got me thinking about a takeaway from one of my fav books “7 Habits of Highly Effective People”. I re-read that book every few years…anyway one concept that fascinated me from the book is where Covey talked about a “commerce of hearts”.
The idea is like a bank or business transactions. There’s different types of transactions. In “good commerce” there’s a win/win thing – one person does something genuinely kind & loving for another – and there are intangibles that are exchanged in the process – love and kindness investments fatten up a range of portfolios. A good & honest commerce of hearts is great “business” for all involved.
On the dark side – there’s scams, toxic and abusive relationships, etc. They’re one-sided – only one side benefits - whether it’s financially or some other advantage or enjoyment. My involvement with TWI is a good illustration of that. Not like I was always the victim – as a starry-eyed dupe of a facilitator for TWI, there were times when I shortchanged those I genuinely love – like close family because I wanted to devote more emotional energy to my ministry responsibilities – cuz of the big payback to my ego – recognition, given more responsibility blah de blah blah – lots of counterfeit currency being exchanged there...fyi counterfeit currency has very little if any value - and some folks can spot it a mile away and will not accept it.
I have been fascinated by genuinely kind and charitable folks ever since Having a daughter with special needs . It can be very taxing emotionally at times. Probably sounds selfish – but sometimes – not often – but sometimes I feel drained. Like the commerce of hearts is one-sided – but I usually have to push myself to be more aware…sensitive to the ways in which my daughter reciprocates my love since it’s often less obvious.
Our love and concern for her wellbeing extends to the vigilance we have in checking out any camp counselors, day hab staff that we trust her into their care. Again I am fascinated by what motivates these people – it’s not a profession that would interest me. Invariably our getting-to-know-them routine involves a friendly chat about why they wanted to be a camp counselor or staff in a special-needs service. Usually the person has had some sibling, friend, or someone close to them that was handicapped – and I guess they liked the commerce of hearts. I can tell when someone really loves what they do.
Someone at a Down syndrome conference said something like one of the gifts of special needs people is that they draw good things out of others. I believe that’s true. Makes me think of all the charitable work you do for the homeless. Maybe there's some divine business slogan for a good commerce of hearts - "genuine love is big business"...sounds silly. that's the best I can come up with on short notice.
I’ll tell you what – your posts bolster my faith in good people. It’s like you’re opening the books for an audit – puts you in a very vulnerable position. You must be very strong and confident to do that…Hang in there…squeeze the cat for me… I have high hopes for your concerns. Folks like you are a godsend!
ps - our daughter wanted a cat so bad…we finally got her a cat 3 years ago…I usually have to fight her for the cat - since I like playing with him too!
Your recent posts got me thinking about a takeaway from one of my fav books “7 Habits of Highly Effective People”. I re-read that book every few years…anyway one concept that fascinated me from the book is where Covey talked about a “commerce of hearts”.
The idea is like a bank or business transactions. There’s different types of transactions. In “good commerce” there’s a win/win thing – one person does something genuinely kind & loving for another – and there are intangibles that are exchanged in the process – love and kindness investments fatten up a range of portfolios. A good & honest commerce of hearts is great “business” for all involved.
On the dark side – there’s scams, toxic and abusive relationships, etc. They’re one-sided – only one side benefits - whether it’s financially or some other advantage or enjoyment. My involvement with TWI is a good illustration of that. Not like I was always the victim – as a starry-eyed dupe of a facilitator for TWI, there were times when I shortchanged those I genuinely love – like close family because I wanted to devote more emotional energy to my ministry responsibilities – cuz of the big payback to my ego – recognition, given more responsibility blah de blah blah – lots of counterfeit currency being exchanged there...fyi counterfeit currency has very little if any value - and some folks can spot it a mile away and will not accept it. . .
Well. Because of the law of believing false doctrine, I was unable to deal with my emotions because that would have been a negative confession. That eventually led me to a complete mental and emotional breakdown along with 16 weeks of counseling to help get things figured out. So theres that.
Well. Because of the law of believing false doctrine, I was unable to deal with my emotions because that would have been a negative confession. That eventually led me to a complete mental and emotional breakdown along with 16 weeks of counseling to help get things figured out. So there's that.
Wow...
Btw, my local public library happened to have a copy of Stephanie Foo's book (which I mentioned earlier), so I'm reading it now.
The first two chapters were difficult to get through as I lived through her horrific upbringing while flashing back to raising my daughter.
It's obvious many of us, especially if we submitted ourselves to the way corpse training have trauma to get through and out of. So, Old Skool it does not surprise me that you had to deal with that breakdown. I'm thankful you've emerged and are hopefully much more emotionally healthy today.
Btw, my local public library happened to have a copy of Stephanie Foo's book (which I mentioned earlier), so I'm reading it now.
The first two chapters were difficult to get through as I lived through her horrific upbringing while flashing back to raising my daughter.
It's obvious many of us, especially if we submitted ourselves to the way corpse training have trauma to get through and out of. So, Old Skool it does not surprise me that you had to deal with that breakdown. I'm thankful you've emerged and are hopefully much more emotionally healthy today.
Thanks! I am better and happier than I have ever been. Been a long road but worth it.
Well. Because of the law of believing false doctrine, I was unable to deal with my emotions because that would have been a negative confession. That eventually led me to a complete mental and emotional breakdown along with 16 weeks of counseling to help get things figured out. So theres that.
I can relate. I went through one standard cycle - 8 weeks - post leaving. I had a fair amount of ptsd and was compliant like Stockholm syndrome.
But I learned you have the power to tell your captors to f off. As many times as it takes.
I can relate. I went through one standard cycle - 8 weeks - post leaving. I had a fair amount of ptsd and was compliant like Stockholm syndrome.
But I learned you have the power to tell your captors to f off. As many times as it takes.
Thats awesome to hear, my friend! Liberating, isn't it? For me it came down to learning to accept loss. The five stage of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. I could never make it to acceptance and was stuck on a spin cycle of the first four -- in no specific order. I was unable to accept losses incurred from a son born with major health problems. Unable to accept that my life still matters after the way international, more so now since I am free from them. I could go on but I think you get the jist. I also drank heavily to numb it all out. I was the happiest guy on the outside but dying on the inside. I havent touched a drop in several years now. But alcohol and depression is akin to putting out a fire with gasoline.
Once I learned to accept reality for what it is....I learned to approach God with a completely different mindset. Now I have an attitude of humility and respect. TWI teaches an attitude of entitlement, where Jesus Christ accomplished everything and is chilling at God's right hand and all we have to do is demand it and claim it. I am able to accept loss and pick up the pieces and move on. It's part of life. TWI taught me not to accept loss but to confess my desired reality until it happens. Wrong way for sure.
Well. Because of the law of believing false doctrine, I was unable to deal with my emotions because that would have been a negative confession. That eventually led me to a complete mental and emotional breakdown along with 16 weeks of counseling to help get things figured out. So theres that.
For some reason your post brought a few TWI-dynamics to remembrance. I think wierwille-ideology had a sneaky way of sabotaging our emotional awareness…I took a little time to look at some related articles online. I think you might find this fascinating insight cool to check out – I’ll have a few excerpts and links below...also many of wierwille’s quotes are perversely counterproductive to the Christian lifestyle!
The real trick of TWI’s crippling subversion was the crafty way they embedded a certain set of attitudes in the minds of followers. TWI’s warped ideas of positive believing and the renewed mind in truth had the opposite effect to what was intended – and we brought it upon ourselves! Twisted attitudes we adopted were sapping our energy. That’s what’s really weird about this…it wasn’t by an external force (i.e., wierwille or some other little-Hitler )…it was an invisible saboteur - TWI’s jerry-rigged credo of pat phrases, buzzwords, ministry-cliches and such which became the harsh yet unseen taskmaster…me! I have found the enemy and it’s me! A self-imposed-police-state-of-mind…thinking of just a few one-liners – I bet a lot of Grease Spotters will recognize the following emotionally suffocating mantras, mottos and mucky-muckisms that could only come from the mind of a cult-leader.
I think there is a subliminal message in all of wierwille's quotes that conveys the same basic idea: wierwille is the ultimate authority on God or anything else.
You’ll also notice in his “word salad” there’s a false humility and how he used biblical or spiritual sounding terms to justify cruel or questionable behavior…it was all a smokescreen for unrepentant sin. He epitomized one who felt nothing nor exhibited shame or remorse…never repentant …never showed an inclination to change…unapologetic.
On some I cited the source…some are so pervasive in TWI-culture it might be impossible to note the “first occurrence” . I’m not going to list them all – just some I think prevented my emotions from functioning in a normal and/or healthy way. Emotional awareness is important because our emotions are own internal guidance system that often lets us know what is right and what is wrong for us.
Here’s an interesting excerpt about emotional awareness:
“Emotional Self-Awareness is the ability to understand your own emotions and their effects on your performance. You know what you are feeling and why—and how it helps or hurts what you are trying to do. You sense how others see you and so align your self-image with a larger reality. You have an accurate sense of your strengths and limitations, which gives you a realistic self-confidence. It also gives you clarity on your values and sense of purpose, so you can be more decisive when you set a course of action. As a leader, you can be candid and authentic, speaking with conviction about your vision.
Consider this real-world example: The chief tech officer at an innovation incubator is a bully, but he doesn't know it. He's very good at what he does except when it comes to managing people. He plays favorites. He tells people what to do. He doesn't listen. He freezes people out that he doesn't like. If you confront him with a specific incident, he denies it. He pins the blame on someone else and gets angry with them. Or he tells you that you’re the problem. Last I heard, he was about to be fired.” From: what is emotional self-awareness?
Here are just a few more reasons to be emotionally aware:
To recognize your moods and reflect on them in order to make better decisions.
To understand other people’s emotions and relate to them better.
Emotional awareness helps you set limits in order to protect yourself.
It helps us get to know ourselves.
From: Emotional Awareness: What Is It and Why Do We Need It?
I’m not going to make comments to critique each “wierwille-ism” – I’ll leave that up to any Grease Spotters who want to chime in on the cultic-greatness of these pithy duplicitous platitudes that could only come from the mind of wierwille
There’s a few things I will say about these wierwille quotes and then I’ll shut up:
1. I can see now reflecting on my own experience how these pretentious biblical sounding “proverbs” trivialized my emotions and subordinated them to wierwille’s word and will (aka “The Word” if you’re a diehard-wierwille-fan). Think of gaslighting: getting you to question your perception of reality, emotions, judgement and intuition.
“Gaslighting in a relationship can take on various forms. Rahman says some of the most common types of gaslighting behavior within a relationship are lying about a given circumstance or denying when abuse has occurred. However, it can also involve one partner projecting their own experiences and emotions onto a partner in a way that makes the partner question their own sanity. Another tactic is for the individual to minimize their partner's emotions or experiences so they question what really happened or how they really feel. And finally, gaslighting in a relationship can involve an individual causing social isolation by portraying their partner as "bad" or "crazy" in front of others.” From What Gaslighting Looks Like In a Relationship
2. you’ll notice in a lot of wierwille’s “short promos” he was selling an image that he wanted you to buy into...this was supposedly the real you…the ideal you…the ideal believer...think about the old cigarette commercials - you could look cool and sexy like these models/actors if you smoke this brand.
But looking back, I feel it was more along the lines of The Stepford Wives . That’s got to be one of the most tantalizing aspects for anyone who is abusive, exploitative and a predator. I’m inclined to think wierwille had the preconceived idea that the ideal believer should be servile... compliant... submissive... with an almost robot-like ability to suppress emotions, ignore sensory input, and turn off logical subroutines…all the while happily doing the man of God’s bidding (translation: following the cult-leader’s instructions). It’s the dehumanizing effect of malignant narcissism…As you read his statements below in that light you should get a better sense of just how self-serving he was. Think of a wolf with a voracious appetite.
3. After I left TWI and began unpacking the emotional baggage accumulated from 12 years of involvement - I seem to be improving on my sensibility – which is the capacity to appreciate and respond to complex emotional or aesthetic influences…basically having more sensitivity to my feelings and those of others…you’ll notice most of these are from “Life Lines: Quotations of Victor Paul wierwille.” Jampacked “gems” of bloviating micro -sermonettes…According to the preface written by L. Craig Martindale the idea for this book was suggested by wierwille himself, spoken directly to LCM, while flying back on Ambassador One to HQ. he said “Maybe you ought to think about putting a book together, son, made up of short statements I’ve spoken over the years which have blessed people.” I now find the book “very useful” cuz it encapsulates wierwille’s insidious ideology in one nifty little green book. Oh how convenient !
4. In my opinion, wierwille’s recurring theme of “The Word” as being the solution to all problems smacks of Gnosticism. The emphasis is on learning more and more about “The Word”. Knowledge is the key to salvation. Think about how much wierwille went on and on about the greatness of “The Word” and the power of believing. that inspired a lot of mental masturbation in followers. A charismatic leader who was all fluff and no substance has the power to tickle the ears of the young and the restless (put this in to see if you're still awake...by the sound of the snoring I guess I went over into prophesy ...oh well zzzzzZZZZZZ ZZZzzzzz )
“Mental masturbation brings out a short-lived stimulus of satisfaction, and then it is gone. It is seen as an addition that keeps you from living in reality because you constantly search for the next high of intellectual thoughts and not get anything done. Some have said that there is a lot of failure in life and business because there are many big ideas but minimal action happening because the action part is boring and not stimulating.” From: What is mental masturbation?
People will tend to drag their feet. Procrastination is an illusion because it masquerades as activity and is an especially tricky form of self-deception. … In my opinion a lot of what they had us do in our corps training was busy work. It was a lot of “activity”, but it had very little value of itself… it certainly kept our minds preoccupied – less chance of us thinking or questioning or realizing that everyone else including campus-leadership were also busy doing nothing.
According to Soren Kierkegaard (who was a Danish philosopher, theologian, and author) procrastination is a failure of the relationship between knowledge and the will. He said procrastination is like sewing without tying a knot at the end of the thread…That is an interesting thought - all the motions of sewing are there but not the practical consequences – because without a knot at the beginning and end of a length of stitching – the thread merely slips through the material but will not stay in place and hold the seam together. In other words, there's a lot of activity but it accomplishes nothing…Procrastination seems like monotony’s close cousin in the way a person repeatedly neglects what they should do.
...anyway here’s a short list of wierwille’s quotes:
Feelings come and go
Just renew your mind.
The love of God thinketh no evil
I have no friends when it comes to “The Word”.
The more abundant life – our deliverance from the power of Satan in this world – depends upon keeping the established fellowship with God. ( The New, Dynamic Church)
Fears have brought nothing but ruin, defeat, and captivity. The moment we are afraid, Satan has already moved in. (God’s Magnified Word)
We should always be steadfast on God’s Word for it is that Word and the accuracy of it that makes possible our joy and rejoicing. ( God’s Magnified Word)
The decision remains with you whether you are going to walk by the senses or by the revealed Word of God. (PFAL book)
Most of us have too much complicated theology and not enough simple believing. (Bible Tells Me So)
Believing implies obedience. (Life Lines)
You are not healed because the pain is gone, but because the word says so. (Life Lines)
Worry is nothing but advanced interest paid on unbelief. (Life Lines)
You can’t have a walk of believing in the Word when you continue to have condemnation. (Life Lines)
Speaking in tongues calms the troubled waters that are boiling inside. (Life Lines)
Only Christ in you can take away the consciousness of sin. (Life Lines)
Love sees more but is also willing to see less. (Life Lines)
Take the barbed wire down around your heart. (Life Lines)
When you forget God’s grace, you will be the one to cast the first stone. (Life Lines)
We can never afford not to love each other. (Life Lines)
You can be dead right but dead wrong because you have no love. (Life Lines)
A person needs to be loved the most when he deserves to be loved the least. (Life Lines)
If God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth isn’t condemning you, then why are you condemning yourself? (Life Lines)
Let your old man really die; don’t just ignore him. (Life Lines)
You only get hurt when you allow yourself to be hurt. (Life Lines)
It isn’t what you think, it is what the Word says that you should think. (Life Lines)
What we’ve got to learn is to never confess a negative. When you have a problem, never tell more people than necessary. (Life Lines)
When God forgives, He forgets. (Life Lines)
It is just as easy to think good of people as to think evil. (Life Lines)
Read and believe the media of the Word instead of seeing, hearing, and believing the media of the world. (Life Lines)
Get your mind off your experiences and into the Word. (Life Lines)
If you don’t have anything good to say about someone, shut up. It’s so easy to criticize, but we need to stand, fight, and believe for one another, not against each other. (Life Lines)
Don’t sacrifice your whole life just because you have a wound in one area. (Life Lines)
If I remember what God forgave me for, I have no trouble forgiving anyone else. (Life Lines)
Small minds talk about people; average minds talk about events; great minds talk about God’s Word. (Life Lines)
Edited by T-Bone having an emotional moment of editing
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chockfull
Yes it’s liberating. To realize as a Christian you are broken. This is why we need a Savior. This is one thing the Way never gets to with the Wierwille ingrained super Christian logic. But it is a
OldSkool
This is true. John Lynn was the biggest proponent of not throwing out the baby with the water. As intelligent as he was, if he had looked far enough beyond the bathroom he would have seen that many of
Nathan_Jr
OldSkool, your story resonates deeply with me. I was never corps, but I was married for eleven years to a vpw-loving narcissist whose flying monkeys were corps. I know about the constant walking on eg
Sunesis
I also think, since we stifled so much of the working of the spirit in us, I think many times the compassion, anger and other things we feel, the feelings of empathy for total strangers are also Christ's feelings working in us. Since we're out of the bondage of TWI, he can work in us to feel what he feels for people.
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Kay1952
Nirvana Floy is what Mad Magazine in their parody called Troy!
Yes, I have had people call Deanna Troi before!
(There was an empath in ST:TOS too!)
EEEGAD! Kay's a Trekker!
(I should only look like Deanna! We may be the same height but there is far more of me than she!
I weigh in at 260. My husband loves well upholstered women!)
Chas--I am glad you finally got past the point of self condemnation regarding breast feeding. I have been a lactation counselor and the guilt that was laid on some of the women I worked with (NOT BY ME!) was enormous. I was a labor coach too, and the guilt that some women felt when their labors didn't go all 'natural' was enormous as well. Having a baby is tough enough without beating someone with the guilt stick!
In 1975 I asked my tc about vaccinations and told her that no matter what twi believed about vaccinations, I was going to have my son inoculated. Tc said that God gave those inoculations so parents didn't have to believe for kids not to get polio, whooping cough, etc.
Made sense to me!
Steve:
"To deny emotions is to say that God is an idiot"
I wish I'd said that because it is perfectly true!
Emotions are what make us real.
I Love you guys! I can feel my heart growing with love for all of you!
Muchly Loving,
Kay
Kay1952
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Waygone
Hey Chas.... LOL! I had forgotten about good ole D. Troi!!
Waygone
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Rocky
The topic of childhood trauma came up very recently in another GSC forum as a result of something TWI posted on its website about parents exercising authority over children. As my manner is, I reflected on my experience, this time since leaving twi, because I didn't have any children while IN twi.
Thankfully, my child is grown and is a well-functioning member of society, in spite of the baggage I brought to and unloaded on her as a result of TWI's now obviously FALSE DOCTRINE about childrearing.
This came to me today because I learned of a memoir, What My Bones Know, written by a survivor of complex PTSD from her childhood. Clearly, TWI doesn't have a monopoly on (much of anything) causing childhood trauma.
But for anyone who thinks about this now 20 years after the start of this thread, maybe this story of a determined young woman's journey of healing might offer some insight and hope.
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Rocky
How very true, on all points.
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Rocky
How sad. I appreciate you having shared your thought.
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Rocky
Gavid de Becker has updated his book a few times since you first read it. I haven't (yet) read it, but it should be on my list.
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modcat5
19 years and 11 months between posts. I wonder if that's a record.
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Twinky
It's a good thread, and thought provoking.
I myself feel significantly more compassionate towards some people and incidents - the homeless on the streets, for example, or (currently) the Ukrainian situation. Much more compassionate.
But in regard to issues that touch me personally, family matters or love interest, etc, I feel that there is something missing, something I haven't retrieved, something absent. At some other level, the passion for others at a more intimate level has gone. Too buttoned down. Is that something to do with getting older? Or am I still TWI-stunted in this area? Am I afraid to share what's going on inside?
Ah well. Half a bottle of good red wine, and I could be anybody's/ No not really: I just sent The Man home, with barely a goodnight hug. Where's my cat, for a cuddle?
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Rocky
YAY for being more compassionate. That was certainly stunted in TWI.
Edited by RockyAs for matters of "love interest," I couldn't even hazard a guess. No doubt aging can be a factor. Being content in and with your own company isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Emotional intimacy can be hard to find nowadays. I applaud you for sharing a little of your vulnerability with us. That suggests it may be possible for you to find some of that intimacy if you're not completely afraid to share what's going on between your ears.
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WordWolf
It's a lot easier to find compassion for people in the abstract (like the starving children in India or the kids with no access to schools in Africa) than it is to find compassion for people you can interact with. There's actual interaction, there's direct emotional contact, there's risk. What if you trust someone and they break your trust and hurt your feelings? It's certainly a risk we all face every day. It's generally a CALCULATED risk for many of us. You decide who is most trustworthy with your self and your privacy, and who's least likely to backstab you or betray you. Then you act accordingly- sometimes discovering later that you chose poorly. But, we are people, and we interact with people. Shutting down from EVERYONE isn't healthy. So, we risk our hearts.
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Twinky
I work quite a lot with homeless and other very needy people. My heart hurts for what they suffer. It's not a vague "compassion in the abstract."
I'm very fortunate to have a supportive group of friends, with some of whom I can be very open and vulnerable. Still - there's something missing. Some passion that used to be there, that isn't. Still fenced in. Doesn't help that some that should be supportive just kick me down. Maybe it is just "getting older." But that should mean more self-assuredness. Which, mostly, I am.
Hey! I'm alive and well. And thankful.
Emotions are GOOD things. Even Jesus wept.
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T-Bone
Good morning, Twinky!
Your recent posts got me thinking about a takeaway from one of my fav books “7 Habits of Highly Effective People”. I re-read that book every few years…anyway one concept that fascinated me from the book is where Covey talked about a “commerce of hearts”.
The idea is like a bank or business transactions. There’s different types of transactions. In “good commerce” there’s a win/win thing – one person does something genuinely kind & loving for another – and there are intangibles that are exchanged in the process – love and kindness investments fatten up a range of portfolios. A good & honest commerce of hearts is great “business” for all involved.
On the dark side – there’s scams, toxic and abusive relationships, etc. They’re one-sided – only one side benefits - whether it’s financially or some other advantage or enjoyment. My involvement with TWI is a good illustration of that. Not like I was always the victim – as a starry-eyed dupe of a facilitator for TWI, there were times when I shortchanged those I genuinely love – like close family because I wanted to devote more emotional energy to my ministry responsibilities – cuz of the big payback to my ego – recognition, given more responsibility blah de blah blah – lots of counterfeit currency being exchanged there...fyi counterfeit currency has very little if any value - and some folks can spot it a mile away and will not accept it.
I have been fascinated by genuinely kind and charitable folks ever since Having a daughter with special needs . It can be very taxing emotionally at times. Probably sounds selfish – but sometimes – not often – but sometimes I feel drained. Like the commerce of hearts is one-sided – but I usually have to push myself to be more aware…sensitive to the ways in which my daughter reciprocates my love since it’s often less obvious.
Our love and concern for her wellbeing extends to the vigilance we have in checking out any camp counselors, day hab staff that we trust her into their care. Again I am fascinated by what motivates these people – it’s not a profession that would interest me. Invariably our getting-to-know-them routine involves a friendly chat about why they wanted to be a camp counselor or staff in a special-needs service. Usually the person has had some sibling, friend, or someone close to them that was handicapped – and I guess they liked the commerce of hearts. I can tell when someone really loves what they do.
Someone at a Down syndrome conference said something like one of the gifts of special needs people is that they draw good things out of others. I believe that’s true. Makes me think of all the charitable work you do for the homeless. Maybe there's some divine business slogan for a good commerce of hearts - "genuine love is big business"...sounds silly. that's the best I can come up with on short notice.
I’ll tell you what – your posts bolster my faith in good people. It’s like you’re opening the books for an audit – puts you in a very vulnerable position. You must be very strong and confident to do that…Hang in there…squeeze the cat for me… I have high hopes for your concerns. Folks like you are a godsend!
Edited by T-Boneps - our daughter wanted a cat so bad…we finally got her a cat 3 years ago…I usually have to fight her for the cat - since I like playing with him too!
yipos typos
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Bolshevik
Transactional Relationships LINK
Another LINK
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Twinky
Thanks for your kind words, T-Bone.
Cats are (usually) great for Cuddles and generally being loving.
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T-Bone
Thanks Bolshevik!
good tie in - thanks again for those links
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OldSkool
Well. Because of the law of believing false doctrine, I was unable to deal with my emotions because that would have been a negative confession. That eventually led me to a complete mental and emotional breakdown along with 16 weeks of counseling to help get things figured out. So theres that.
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Rocky
Wow...
Btw, my local public library happened to have a copy of Stephanie Foo's book (which I mentioned earlier), so I'm reading it now.
The first two chapters were difficult to get through as I lived through her horrific upbringing while flashing back to raising my daughter.
It's obvious many of us, especially if we submitted ourselves to the way corpse training have trauma to get through and out of. So, Old Skool it does not surprise me that you had to deal with that breakdown. I'm thankful you've emerged and are hopefully much more emotionally healthy today.
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OldSkool
Thanks! I am better and happier than I have ever been. Been a long road but worth it.
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chockfull
I can relate. I went through one standard cycle - 8 weeks - post leaving. I had a fair amount of ptsd and was compliant like Stockholm syndrome.
But I learned you have the power to tell your captors to f off. As many times as it takes.
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OldSkool
Thats awesome to hear, my friend! Liberating, isn't it? For me it came down to learning to accept loss. The five stage of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. I could never make it to acceptance and was stuck on a spin cycle of the first four -- in no specific order. I was unable to accept losses incurred from a son born with major health problems. Unable to accept that my life still matters after the way international, more so now since I am free from them. I could go on but I think you get the jist. I also drank heavily to numb it all out. I was the happiest guy on the outside but dying on the inside. I havent touched a drop in several years now. But alcohol and depression is akin to putting out a fire with gasoline.
Once I learned to accept reality for what it is....I learned to approach God with a completely different mindset. Now I have an attitude of humility and respect. TWI teaches an attitude of entitlement, where Jesus Christ accomplished everything and is chilling at God's right hand and all we have to do is demand it and claim it. I am able to accept loss and pick up the pieces and move on. It's part of life. TWI taught me not to accept loss but to confess my desired reality until it happens. Wrong way for sure.
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Rocky
I get it. For me, it's been 40 years since I endured WC training. I'm still getting over it.
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OldSkool
Same here. Im not over it yet either, but I am beginning to think that I am on the downside of the hill. Time will tell.
It took me several years to re-adapt to society after leaving HQ. I still struggle at times.
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T-Bone
For some reason your post brought a few TWI-dynamics to remembrance. I think wierwille-ideology had a sneaky way of sabotaging our emotional awareness…I took a little time to look at some related articles online. I think you might find this fascinating insight cool to check out – I’ll have a few excerpts and links below...also many of wierwille’s quotes are perversely counterproductive to the Christian lifestyle!
The real trick of TWI’s crippling subversion was the crafty way they embedded a certain set of attitudes in the minds of followers. TWI’s warped ideas of positive believing and the renewed mind in truth had the opposite effect to what was intended – and we brought it upon ourselves! Twisted attitudes we adopted were sapping our energy. That’s what’s really weird about this…it wasn’t by an external force (i.e., wierwille or some other little-Hitler )…it was an invisible saboteur - TWI’s jerry-rigged credo of pat phrases, buzzwords, ministry-cliches and such which became the harsh yet unseen taskmaster…me! I have found the enemy and it’s me! A self-imposed-police-state-of-mind…thinking of just a few one-liners – I bet a lot of Grease Spotters will recognize the following emotionally suffocating mantras, mottos and mucky-muckisms that could only come from the mind of a cult-leader.
I think there is a subliminal message in all of wierwille's quotes that conveys the same basic idea: wierwille is the ultimate authority on God or anything else.
You’ll also notice in his “word salad” there’s a false humility and how he used biblical or spiritual sounding terms to justify cruel or questionable behavior…it was all a smokescreen for unrepentant sin. He epitomized one who felt nothing nor exhibited shame or remorse…never repentant …never showed an inclination to change…unapologetic.
On some I cited the source…some are so pervasive in TWI-culture it might be impossible to note the “first occurrence”
Here’s an interesting excerpt about emotional awareness:
“Emotional Self-Awareness is the ability to understand your own emotions and their effects on your performance. You know what you are feeling and why—and how it helps or hurts what you are trying to do. You sense how others see you and so align your self-image with a larger reality. You have an accurate sense of your strengths and limitations, which gives you a realistic self-confidence. It also gives you clarity on your values and sense of purpose, so you can be more decisive when you set a course of action. As a leader, you can be candid and authentic, speaking with conviction about your vision.
Consider this real-world example: The chief tech officer at an innovation incubator is a bully, but he doesn't know it. He's very good at what he does except when it comes to managing people. He plays favorites. He tells people what to do. He doesn't listen. He freezes people out that he doesn't like. If you confront him with a specific incident, he denies it. He pins the blame on someone else and gets angry with them. Or he tells you that you’re the problem. Last I heard, he was about to be fired.” From: what is emotional self-awareness?
Here are just a few more reasons to be emotionally aware:
To recognize your moods and reflect on them in order to make better decisions.
To understand other people’s emotions and relate to them better.
Emotional awareness helps you set limits in order to protect yourself.
It helps us get to know ourselves.
From: Emotional Awareness: What Is It and Why Do We Need It?
I’m not going to make comments to critique each “wierwille-ism” – I’ll leave that up to any Grease Spotters who want to chime in on the cultic-greatness of these pithy duplicitous platitudes that could only come from the mind of wierwille
There’s a few things I will say about these wierwille quotes and then I’ll shut up:
1. I can see now reflecting on my own experience how these pretentious biblical sounding “proverbs” trivialized my emotions and subordinated them to wierwille’s word and will (aka “The Word” if you’re a diehard-wierwille-fan). Think of gaslighting: getting you to question your perception of reality, emotions, judgement and intuition.
“Gaslighting in a relationship can take on various forms. Rahman says some of the most common types of gaslighting behavior within a relationship are lying about a given circumstance or denying when abuse has occurred. However, it can also involve one partner projecting their own experiences and emotions onto a partner in a way that makes the partner question their own sanity. Another tactic is for the individual to minimize their partner's emotions or experiences so they question what really happened or how they really feel. And finally, gaslighting in a relationship can involve an individual causing social isolation by portraying their partner as "bad" or "crazy" in front of others.” From What Gaslighting Looks Like In a Relationship
2. you’ll notice in a lot of wierwille’s “short promos” he was selling an image that he wanted you to buy into...this was supposedly the real you…the ideal you…the ideal believer...think about the old cigarette commercials - you could look cool and sexy like these models/actors if you smoke this brand.
But looking back, I feel it was more along the lines of The Stepford Wives . That’s got to be one of the most tantalizing aspects for anyone who is abusive, exploitative and a predator. I’m inclined to think wierwille had the preconceived idea that the ideal believer should be servile... compliant... submissive... with an almost robot-like ability to suppress emotions, ignore sensory input, and turn off logical subroutines…all the while happily doing the man of God’s bidding (translation: following the cult-leader’s instructions). It’s the dehumanizing effect of malignant narcissism…As you read his statements below in that light you should get a better sense of just how self-serving he was. Think of a wolf with a voracious appetite.
3. After I left TWI and began unpacking the emotional baggage accumulated from 12 years of involvement - I seem to be improving on my sensibility – which is the capacity to appreciate and respond to complex emotional or aesthetic influences…basically having more sensitivity to my feelings and those of others…you’ll notice most of these are from “Life Lines: Quotations of Victor Paul wierwille.” Jampacked “gems” of bloviating micro -sermonettes…According to the preface written by L. Craig Martindale the idea for this book was suggested by wierwille himself, spoken directly to LCM, while flying back on Ambassador One to HQ. he said “Maybe you ought to think about putting a book together, son, made up of short statements I’ve spoken over the years which have blessed people.” I now find the book “very useful” cuz it encapsulates wierwille’s insidious ideology in one nifty little green book. Oh how convenient !
4. In my opinion, wierwille’s recurring theme of “The Word” as being the solution to all problems smacks of Gnosticism. The emphasis is on learning more and more about “The Word”. Knowledge is the key to salvation. Think about how much wierwille went on and on about the greatness of “The Word” and the power of believing. that inspired a lot of mental masturbation in followers. A charismatic leader who was all fluff and no substance has the power to tickle the ears of the young and the restless (put this in to see if you're still awake...by the sound of the snoring I guess I went over into prophesy ...oh well zzzzzZZZZZZ
ZZZzzzzz )
“Mental masturbation brings out a short-lived stimulus of satisfaction, and then it is gone. It is seen as an addition that keeps you from living in reality because you constantly search for the next high of intellectual thoughts and not get anything done. Some have said that there is a lot of failure in life and business because there are many big ideas but minimal action happening because the action part is boring and not stimulating.” From: What is mental masturbation?
People will tend to drag their feet. Procrastination is an illusion because it masquerades as activity and is an especially tricky form of self-deception. … In my opinion a lot of what they had us do in our corps training was busy work. It was a lot of “activity”, but it had very little value of itself… it certainly kept our minds preoccupied – less chance of us thinking or questioning or realizing that everyone else including campus-leadership were also busy doing nothing.
According to Soren Kierkegaard (who was a Danish philosopher, theologian, and author) procrastination is a failure of the relationship between knowledge and the will. He said procrastination is like sewing without tying a knot at the end of the thread…That is an interesting thought - all the motions of sewing are there but not the practical consequences – because without a knot at the beginning and end of a length of stitching – the thread merely slips through the material but will not stay in place and hold the seam together. In other words, there's a lot of activity but it accomplishes nothing…Procrastination seems like monotony’s close cousin in the way a person repeatedly neglects what they should do.
...anyway here’s a short list of wierwille’s quotes:
Feelings come and go
Just renew your mind.
The love of God thinketh no evil
I have no friends when it comes to “The Word”.
The more abundant life – our deliverance from the power of Satan in this world – depends upon keeping the established fellowship with God. ( The New, Dynamic Church)
Fears have brought nothing but ruin, defeat, and captivity. The moment we are afraid, Satan has already moved in. (God’s Magnified Word)
We should always be steadfast on God’s Word for it is that Word and the accuracy of it that makes possible our joy and rejoicing. ( God’s Magnified Word)
The decision remains with you whether you are going to walk by the senses or by the revealed Word of God. (PFAL book)
Most of us have too much complicated theology and not enough simple believing. (Bible Tells Me So)
Believing implies obedience. (Life Lines)
You are not healed because the pain is gone, but because the word says so. (Life Lines)
Worry is nothing but advanced interest paid on unbelief. (Life Lines)
You can’t have a walk of believing in the Word when you continue to have condemnation. (Life Lines)
Action cures fear. Nonaction strengthens fear. (Life Lines)
Speaking in tongues calms the troubled waters that are boiling inside. (Life Lines)
Only Christ in you can take away the consciousness of sin. (Life Lines)
Love sees more but is also willing to see less. (Life Lines)
Take the barbed wire down around your heart. (Life Lines)
When you forget God’s grace, you will be the one to cast the first stone. (Life Lines)
We can never afford not to love each other. (Life Lines)
You can be dead right but dead wrong because you have no love. (Life Lines)
A person needs to be loved the most when he deserves to be loved the least. (Life Lines)
If God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth isn’t condemning you, then why are you condemning yourself? (Life Lines)
Let your old man really die; don’t just ignore him. (Life Lines)
You only get hurt when you allow yourself to be hurt. (Life Lines)
It isn’t what you think, it is what the Word says that you should think. (Life Lines)
What we’ve got to learn is to never confess a negative. When you have a problem, never tell more people than necessary. (Life Lines)
When God forgives, He forgets. (Life Lines)
It is just as easy to think good of people as to think evil. (Life Lines)
Read and believe the media of the Word instead of seeing, hearing, and believing the media of the world. (Life Lines)
Get your mind off your experiences and into the Word. (Life Lines)
If you don’t have anything good to say about someone, shut up. It’s so easy to criticize, but we need to stand, fight, and believe for one another, not against each other. (Life Lines)
Don’t sacrifice your whole life just because you have a wound in one area. (Life Lines)
If I remember what God forgave me for, I have no trouble forgiving anyone else. (Life Lines)
Small minds talk about people; average minds talk about events; great minds talk about God’s Word. (Life Lines)
Edited by T-Bonehaving an emotional moment of editing
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